Episode 16

Writer's Block & Literary Symbolism in Film - Stranger Than Fiction (2006)

Stranger Than Wildcat Part Two

Writer's Block & Literary Symbolism in Film - Stranger Than Fiction (2006)

Hosts Chris Wiegand and brother Jerome dive deep into the 2006 film 'Stranger Than Fiction' starring Will Ferrell and Emma Thompson. Jerome meticulously breaks down Blake Snyder's beat structure as applied to the movie. They discuss themes of writer's block and uncover a surprising metaphor that ties the story to religious undertones, alongside this, they share their thoughts on 'Wildcat', ultimately making connections between filmmaking, storytelling, and life's deeper meanings.

00:41 Introduction to Silver Screen Happy Hour

00:50 Recap of Wildcat Episode

01:40 Drinks and Banter

02:44 Discussion on Stranger Than Fiction

02:49 Movie Specs and Box Office Performance

04:58 Cast and Characters

05:40 First Impressions and Viewing Experiences

07:40 Plot Overview and Key Scenes

08:32 Harold's Mundane Life and Narration

12:13 Meeting Anna and Hearing the Narration

13:18 Karen Eiffel and the Rule of Three

17:27 Harold's Transformation and Guitar Purchase

26:39 Harold's Love Life and Discovering Karen

27:19 Climax and Resolution

30:27 The Role of the Wristwatch

30:52 David Mamet's 'Why Here, Why Now?' Concept

31:52 Plot Issues in 'Stranger Than Fiction'

34:49 The Guitar Scene Analysis

37:01 Religious Connotations in Films

43:11 Six Degrees of Separation Game

50:11 Bonus Content: Emotional Reflections

Watch Stranger Than Fiction

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Transcript
Chris:

We gotta wrap this up soon.

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I got a message.

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I never got this message

from clean feed before.

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The browser is holding

a lot of recorded audio.

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If necessary, save your

recording at a convenient time,

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close it, and begin a new one.

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Jerome: Clean Feed's like,

You've eaten too much, sir.

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We're cutting you off.

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Chris: They're cutting us off at the bar.

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Jerome: You drank too much.

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You drank too much.

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We're cutting you off.

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Chris: Clean Feed's a stingy bartender.

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Welcome back to the

Silver Screen Happy Hour.

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I'm Chris Wiegand, along

with my brother Jerome.

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Jerome: I'm still alive!

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Chris: So Stranger Than Wildcat,

episode one we covered the movie

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Wildcat starring Maya Hawke and

directed by her dad Ethan Hawke.

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Ethan Hawke.

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Jerome: Okay, so for those of you

just joining us for this episode

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We really want you to go back and

listen to the Wildcat episode.

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It is long It's longer than usual

only because we have a third person

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on our first time having a guest Chris

Chris's wife, my sister in law, Jessie.

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We knew that she would have a lot

of, you know, interesting takes

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and perspective on, on the film.

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It's an important film.

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We both agree.

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We all three of us agree that

we loved it and we hope we get

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some recognition at the Oscars.

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But now we're on to part two

and Jessie couldn't hang.

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She's in bed now.

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This is what we do.

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We retire people.

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We put them to

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Chris: bed.

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Well, and we started off.

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The, the drinks that we started off

with, I, I got me some a nice fifth

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of Writer's Tears Irish Whiskey,

a triple distilled Irish whiskey.

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It's delicious.

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I've never had this before,

and it's a new favorite.

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I really like this whiskey.

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And Jessie has helped me drink

some of this bottle while we were

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recording that first episode.

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I might have another little.

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Little swig, but I'm, I've switched

to some Sam Adams Oktoberfest.

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Oh, my brother can't hear me.

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Oh, he's got his headphones on now.

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I switched, I switched over

to some Sam Adams Oktoberfest.

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It's a little bit lighter.

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So hopefully it'll get me

through this, this next episode.

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Jerome: In perfect drinking

fashion, halfway through the

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episode, I went to my lightsabers.

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But you know what?

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Since we're starting a new

episode, I'm going to bring out oh.

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Shots!

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A glass of the Blantons that I

had during the John Wick episode.

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But anyway, all right, so what

are we here to talk about?

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I almost forgot.

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Chris: Stranger than Fiction, 2006.

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Jerome: All right, here's the specs.

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2006, directed by Mark Forrester

of World War Z, Monsters Ball,

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and Finding Neverland fame.

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Written by Zach Helm, who I believe

Is a 100 percent Blake Snyder fan

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because the beats in this movie are

spot on man, almost to the minute

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running time of one hour and 53 minutes

in a budget of 30 million dollars.

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It was released November 10th, 2006.

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And went on to make about

53 million worldwide.

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Good for about 102nd place

on the worldwide list for 06.

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But that's no fault of its own.

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A lot of big movies came out that year.

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It did finish behind She's

the Man and Invincible.

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But ahead of Last King of

Scotland and We Are Marshall.

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So it was right there in that sweet spot.

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Just for fun.

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Top grossing film of 2006.

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Take a guess.

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I have no idea.

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See, see, no.

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Chris: I had little kids.

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I don't remember 2006.

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For

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Jerome: future podcasts, you

should look this shit up.

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It's because you know I'm gonna

hit you with these questions.

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All right, the number one movie of

:

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Caribbean Dead Man's Chest, which

was the sequel to the:

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All right, I'll buy that.

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And that movie made one million dollars.

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Point zero six, six

billion dollars with a B.

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Damn, not bad for a sequel.

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Yeah.

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Tell me about it.

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Stranger than fiction had zero Oscar

nominations, but it did score Will

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Farrell, a best actor, musical or

comedy nomination at the golden globes.

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Guess who he lost to.

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If you didn't get the box office,

you're not going to get this.

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He lost to Sasha Baron Cohen for Borat.

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Oh, yeah, which is I can see that.

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Borat was a huge movie that year,

you know, and that was sort of like

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Cohen, even though Cohen had done

the Ali G show Borat was really

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his coming out party for Hollywood.

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Like I can't see him winning for that.

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All right.

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So it stars Will Ferrell as Harold

Crick, Maggie Gyllenhaal as Anna Pascal,

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Emma Thompson as Karen Eiffel, Dustin

Hoffman as Professor Jules Hilbert.

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Queen Latifah as Penny

Escher and Tony Hale as Dave.

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Again, I know that If you've listened

to our episodes, you know why I do this.

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The reason why I give the cast

list, including their full character

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names is usually on the show.

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I'm, I talked about them as characters.

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So instead of saying, Oh, that's

when he bumped into Dustin Hoffman.

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You know what I mean?

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I'll say the character's name.

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So everyone knows it's kind of like

we treat it like a play, you know, the

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place our characters are introduced.

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All right.

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When was the first time you saw

this movie and what'd you think?

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Chris: Honestly, I don't remember

the first time I've seen it, and I

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realized watching it this time, I've

never seen it all the way through.

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So I think, I think I started watching

it probably maybe three times,

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three or four times and fell asleep.

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And this has been an ongoing thing we've

talked about on this show where, you know,

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I mean, for so many years I was, you know,

working ridiculous hours, getting up at

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three 30 in the morning, raising a family.

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And I just couldn't stay

up when we put a video on.

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So I I'd watched the first

20 minutes and I'd be out.

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So, and I think that's what

happened with this movie.

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Cause I realized after watching this last

week that I'd never finished this movie.

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Until last week.

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So

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Jerome: that is interesting.

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My first time seeing this movie about a

week ago, I never had seen this movie.

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I don't know.

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It's like uh, what do we talk about?

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That one score says the movie Hugo.

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It was like, it's just one of those

movies that I, well, actually Hugo,

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I don't know how I missed that.

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It just sort of slipped right through me,

but this movie, I remember it existing.

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I knew it existed.

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But somehow I just never

got around to seeing it.

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I think it was at that time

in 06, where Will Ferrell was

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at the height of his comedies.

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So I remember when this movie

came out, people were like,

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oh my God, it's not a comedy.

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He's really doing drama this time.

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And I think I was just like, eh.

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Yeah.

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Yeah,

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Chris: you liked his

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Jerome: comedy.

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Yeah, I was like, ah,

I'll wait, I'll wait.

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And then I never got around to it.

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I'm so happy that we decided to do

it for the podcast though, because.

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Yeah.

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In the last week, I've seen it

twice now, and I fucking love it.

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I love it.

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I thought it's so fun.

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Go ahead.

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Chris: Take a pause here.

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Can you turn your fan off?

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Jerome: Oh, shit.

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Chris: Damn it.

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I'm sorry.

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Audience.

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Jerome: All right.

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Log line.

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Log me.

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Chris: IRS Auditor Harold Crick suddenly

finds his mundane Chicago life to be the

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subject of narration only he can hear.

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Narration that begins to

affect his entire existence.

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From his work, to his

love life, to his death.

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Jerome: Okay, so thoughts on the logline?

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I would cut that whole second sentence.

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And again, I know that the

filmmakers don't do this.

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This isn't an IMDB thing, but imagine

if you just said IRS auditor Harold

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Crick suddenly finds his mundane

Chicago life to be the subject

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of narration only he can hear.

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Yeah, it sets it up.

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Boom.

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That's it.

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All you need to know.

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That's it.

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The rest of that shit you

don't need to put in there.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Anyway.

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Okay.

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We have the beats.

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Opening image!

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Quick scan of the earth as it quickly

zooms down into the city and the

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streets right into Harold's bedroom

as he wakes up and begins his day.

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We set up with a montage of Harold's day.

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He counts his teeth brushing strokes.

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Time he saves tying his tie.

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His steps to work.

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Everything.

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He counts everything.

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Everything.

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This is certainly a Blake

Snyder Save the Cat.

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A limit known as Sta equals death.

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He has a boring life and it's a lonely

life, so painfully routine and lonely.

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And we find that he's smart, at

least with numbers and calculations,

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but he is also not happy.

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Chris: Mm-hmm

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Jerome: So it certainly feeds into that.

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Things that need fixing part.

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For instance, we get a sense of

how boring his life is that when

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he's at work and he's on break,

he reads calculator catalogs

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like, holy shit, dude.

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Be any more boring of a person.

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Side note, the drawings that

are happening around him.

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So when you watch the movie, you see,

do you like these drawings around him?

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It happens throughout the film

and it's almost like they're doing

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the calculations for the audience.

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This is a setup and payoff that's going

to come back later, but it also seems

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like cartoon like, like we're reading a

comic book, which is very telling since

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he's actually living in a story, right?

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All right, four point push, inciting

incident at the four minute mark on

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this particular Wednesday, not sure why.

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More on that later, but he could

start to hear the narration

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of somebody dictating his day.

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It's a comical scene because we all

have moments like that, like when we're

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getting up and getting dressed in the

morning and we sort of like talk to

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ourselves in our head, you know, about

the day we're about to have and things

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we have to do, but he starts hearing it.

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It's like, this is the first hint that

the before world is about to change.

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So this is the inciting incident

theme stated at the five minute mark.

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Talk about this guy doesn't know who saved

the cat at exactly the five minute mark.

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He's like, Karen narrates, and I quote,

It was remarkable how the simple,

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modest elements of Harold's life, so

often taken for granted, would become

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the catalyst for an entirely new life.

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If that's not fucking laying out how the

whole movie is going to play, like how,

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but I mean, dude, Zach Helm, I actually

sent an Instagram message to Jimmy George.

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And I was like, tell me this guy's

not a save the cat fan, this movie.

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And he, he wrote me back.

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He's like, I love stranger than fiction.

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This is save the cat, like beat by beat.

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All right.

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This sets up Harold's emotional

journey and spiritual goals.

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Since we have established.

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How he's not really living

life to the fullest.

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But when it comes into jeopardy,

he's willing to fight for it.

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And ultimately gaining.

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To, you know, to use a dead poet society

phrase, sucking the marrow out of life

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in the process, almost as if he gained

an adventurous life while say, trying

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to save the boring one that he had.

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Right?

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All right.

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So we're taking through Harold's first

day of being able to hear his own

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narration and everything is a little off.

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It reminded me a lot of Groundhog

Day when Bill Murray is reliving

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Groundhog Day for the first time.

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Yeah.

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You know, when he has day two,

basically, I guess you could

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say where everything seems off.

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It's the same, but seems a little off.

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I had that feel when I was watching it.

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So more set up after the

inciting incident, he meets Anna.

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Who he immediately is attracted to, and

when he leaves, feeling terrible about

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how that interaction ended, he hears the

narration again, and he yells up, SHUT UP!

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And at that moment, the narration

says, Cursing the heavens in futility.

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And it's all, I'm not cursing

the heavens, I'm cursing you.

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I just thought that was fucking great.

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Thirteen minutes in, more foreshadowing,

and the first Of this rule of three.

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Are you ready?

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We're going to have a rule

of three in this movie.

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This is the first element when the kid

on the bike causes a minor accident,

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the guy with the hose trying to

avoid the kids sprays Denise's feet.

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Now in truth, her character's name

is chronic or bus driver, but the

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actress's name is Denise Hughes.

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So I'm just, I'm going to call her

Denise for the rest of this podcast.

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So we know what I'm talking about.

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A minute later, we're introduced to

Karen Eiffel, the novelist and voice

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of the narration, and it becomes

clear the narration is her writing the

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book, where Harold is the protagonist.

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then we meet Perry Escher.

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Now she's the assistant that the

publisher hired to keep an eye

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on, keep tabs on, and ultimately

to push Karen to finish the book.

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She says, and this is foreshadowing

quote, I'll be with you

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until the final punctuation.

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We're going to get to that,

how that's part of the closing

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image, but anyway, all right.

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And that and talk about foreshadowing.

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This movie is loaded with

it at the 16 minute mark.

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Karen explains what it's like for someone

who has just jumped to their death.

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She says that they are serene.

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She says that the impact of hitting

the ground does is not what kills them.

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She says they're serene and happy.

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This is gonna pay off at the end.

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If you, you know, you

know how it ends, right?

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All right.

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So back to Harold at work.

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He goes to see the human

resources psychiatrist.

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Dr Cayley who suggests

by the way, Tom Hulse.

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I love fucking Tom Hulse in this scene.

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He's so fucking funny who

suggests he takes a vacation.

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There's a fun moment here as Cayley

is talking to him at one point

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the clouds that are painted on the

wall behind him I don't know if

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you noticed, they start to move.

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They're moving with the wind.

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Yeah.

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You got to go back and watch it again.

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Catalyst 21 minutes in

on the street corner.

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Harold, here's Karen's narration

saying that the little moments of

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his life will lead to his death.

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The old world is

certainly in jeopardy now.

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And he's and it sets

Harold into a panic debate.

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23 minutes in, he goes to

a real psychiatrist, Dr.

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Lefter, who insists he is suffering

from schizophrenia, which he denies.

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Another funny part of that scene is she's

like, well, if it's not schizophrenia,

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explain to me what's going on.

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And he explains it all.

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And he goes, what does

that sound like to you?

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And she doesn't say it, but like,

as an audience, you're like.

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That's schizophrenia.

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Chris: She actually does

say it a couple of times.

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She's like, that's schizophrenia.

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Jerome: Anyway, he denies it.

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So he says, Oh, another funny part

I like about when he's explaining

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the narration, he goes, and this

is a quote, it's my thoughts.

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Only smarter and with better vocabulary

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That's right He's acknowledging karen

is a much better writer than he is.

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Yeah, break into two 24 minutes in at

the request of the psychiatrist He goes

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to see professor jules hilbert played by

dustin hoffman and gets him to Want to

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invest time in this phenomenon only after

he hears Harold say The narrator used the

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phrase little did he know which is funny

because it it seemed to really piss him

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off Like he only wanted to take on this

case because he heard that Like that's

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one of his things that his students say

and he hates it This is ironic because he

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doesn't know yet that it's karen eiffel.

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That's the narrator, right?

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And he's a big fan of karen eiffel Mm

hmm But when he hears that the narrator

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said little did he know he's like,

oh no, no, we're going to get to the

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bottom of this Like to him that's an

abomination of a line So so this also

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serves as the b story hilbert is the b

story because he will eventually lead

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harold to his spiritual goal, right

So another funny bit that happens here

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and it happens throughout the film.

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There's times where hilbert calls

harold howard You That's not his name.

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And I think at one time,

Harold corrects him.

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He says, it's Harold, not Howard.

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But he calls him Howard sporadically

through the movie, not all the

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time, which is even more ironic.

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Like he will call him Harold sometimes.

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And other times he calls him Howard.

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Like he just has zero care

about who this guy really is.

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Chris: Yeah.

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He just wants to get to the bottom of it.

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Jerome: And that's, what's

going to be important later.

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Cause I got something on Hilbert.

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You're going to like later.

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Alright, fun and games, Harold sees

Anna again on the bus and they have

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sort of a flirtatious back and forth

where romantic interest is obvious.

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Now you can argue that Anna is the

B story, but she's already been

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introduced nine minutes in when he

went to go audit her, and I'm not sure

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that she really drives Harold to his

spiritual goal more than Hilbert does.

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Hilbert is Obi Wan.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Hilbert, I believe, is the B story.

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All right.

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The next time they show

him brushing his teeth.

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What?

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You have a thought?

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I was just

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Chris: going to ask, is that

why she's Maggie Gyllenhaal?

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Gyllenhaal.

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Yeah.

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Is that why she's so far down

on the cast list on IMDb?

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Jerome: Which is uh, no.

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That really surprised me.

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You know why that is?

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Because IMDb, and they're,

they're very open about this.

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They will list the cast,

how it is in the movie.

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And in the closing credits of the

movie, it says in order of appearance.

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Oh, okay.

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So Maggie doesn't show up until

ten minutes into the film.

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So all those other people

showed up before her.

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I

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Chris: know, it's just IMDb, the top

build cast is Will Ferrell, Emma Thompson,

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Dustin Hoffman, and Queen Latifah.

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Jerome: Yeah,

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Chris: and you know

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Jerome: actually yo, that's odd.

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That is odd now that you

mention it because Queen Latifah

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isn't introduced until later

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Chris: Yeah,

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Jerome: neither is Emma Thompson.

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Really?

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They're both introduced

after Maggie Gyllenhaal is.

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Actually, you got a good point there.

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And I thought

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Chris: she, I thought she should

have been the fourth one up there.

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She's

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Jerome: kinda getting

screwed on the billing.

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Chris: Kinda like Ethan Hawke

394

:

Jerome: does.

395

:

Like Ethan Hawke, since

he is listening still.

396

:

Hopefully.

397

:

Doubt it.

398

:

Doubt it.

399

:

He, he, he, he logged off after Wildcat.

400

:

Yeah.

401

:

So, okay.

402

:

The next time they show him

brushing his teeth after he had

403

:

this moment with Anna on the bus.

404

:

The next time they show him brushing

his teeth, he's starting to change.

405

:

This is upside world, upside down

world, because while counting,

406

:

you see the numbers on the screen.

407

:

Remember how I said there's

like cartoonish numbers that

408

:

are following what he's doing?

409

:

Chris: Yeah.

410

:

Jerome: This is what the numbers do.

411

:

I don't know if you noticed this.

412

:

It says 20 times, 21 times, 22 times, 23

times, 2N times, 8N times, Anna times.

413

:

So it slowly changes from

numbers to Anna's name.

414

:

That's great.

415

:

So he's already arcing.

416

:

He's already arcing at this point.

417

:

Because his obsessive compulsiveness

is already taking a back seat to

418

:

the, his infatuation with Anna.

419

:

Yeah.

420

:

Right?

421

:

So his routine is being altered.

422

:

And, and it gets altered throughout the

film because of his interest in Anna.

423

:

This is kind of like what I'm talking

about like in the first movie when

424

:

we were talking about Wildcat.

425

:

We don't see that, you know what I mean?

426

:

There's no character progressive change.

427

:

Again, those of you that want to go

back to listen to the two hour episode

428

:

of wild cat, they go listen to it, but,

but this one is a little bit quicker.

429

:

It's a little bit shorter.

430

:

So it, it arcs quicker and

most comedies do right.

431

:

We can argue every time we've done

the comedy, it's arced quicker.

432

:

Okay, back to Karen as she's studying

car crashes more foreshadowing by the

433

:

way Yeah And we get to the number two

moment of the rule of three where once

434

:

again the kid on a bike causes a car crash

On the bridge while Denise is watching

435

:

the car goes over the edge So this is

setting up for the third and final rule

436

:

of three So we already have two now,

but the kid on the bike has caused an

437

:

accident Alright, more fun and games.

438

:

Harold is trying to predict, I'm

sorry, he's trying to dictate and

439

:

control what's going on in his life

by developing his relationship with

440

:

Anna at the same time as investigating

his world possibilities with Hilbert.

441

:

At one point during a Q& A

session with Hilbert, Harold says

442

:

his favorite word is integer.

443

:

Integer.

444

:

Integer.

445

:

Integer.

446

:

Integer.

447

:

Which is?

448

:

Interesting, because by definition,

it's a number that is not a fraction.

449

:

A complete thing in itself.

450

:

A whole number.

451

:

Which Harold is not right now, right?

452

:

At this all this until his apartment

is trashed by construction workers.

453

:

That was

454

:

Chris: crazy.

455

:

Talk about a curveball.

456

:

I literally jumped out of

my seat and gone, holy shit!

457

:

Jerome: A midpoint scene.

458

:

After he has to stay in his friend Dave's

apartment, because he has no livable.

459

:

Chris: Yeah,

460

:

Jerome: Dave tells him about

his space camp story, right?

461

:

And he says you're never too old

for space, space, space camp.

462

:

What's funny is he calls him dude a lot.

463

:

It's like, dude, you're never

too old for space camp, dude.

464

:

It almost sounded like Big Lebowski.

465

:

Yeah.

466

:

At the 56 minute mark of the midpoint,

and inspired by the space camp story,

467

:

Harold decides he's gonna buy a guitar.

468

:

This is a false victory, because

despite having Hilbert's advice and

469

:

attempting to just carry on with his

life, he knows he's not done yet.

470

:

Well, he doesn't know yet,

but we know he's not done

471

:

yet, so it's a false victory.

472

:

Bad guys closing in.

473

:

At the hospital ward, Karen

and Peggy are still trying to

474

:

look into ways to kill Harold.

475

:

She has this great exchange

with an orderly where she

476

:

says, All these people here.

477

:

Where are the people that

aren't gonna make it?

478

:

Cause she wants to see the

people that are gonna die.

479

:

Chris: Right.

480

:

I was laughing out loud during that scene.

481

:

Jerome: I was too!

482

:

And I'm gonna tell you why in a minute.

483

:

And the orderly says, I'm paraphrasing,

but the orderly's like, Do you have a

484

:

condition that you're suffering from?

485

:

And she says, Writer's block.

486

:

I can't tell you.

487

:

I can't tell you.

488

:

I gotta tell you how real this is for me,

that when this happened, I had to pause it

489

:

, because, so when I was this was years ago.

490

:

This might have, this was before

I met v this before I got married,

491

:

I was single living in la.

492

:

And I was writing a screenplay that

had to deal with some sort of like

493

:

final sendoff for kindergartners,

like in the movie, like somebody's

494

:

kid was like graduating kindergarten.

495

:

And I was like, do they have

graduation for kindergartners?

496

:

Do they have like a final day

where all the parents show up?

497

:

Cause it was, this is an event that

I was going to write in the script,

498

:

like a scene where like the people

that, you know, the main people of the

499

:

movie, we're going to get together.

500

:

And I was like, I don't know.

501

:

So I researched local.

502

:

Kindergarten teachers, and I email

one of them, and I'm like So, in, in

503

:

hindsight, in hindsight What a creep In

the Me Too, Time's Up era, in hindsight

504

:

This wasn't very smart, but I emailed

a kindergarten teacher, and I'm like,

505

:

so what do you do for your kids on the

last day, like, is there a graduation?

506

:

Is there like a ceremony?

507

:

Cause I want She's like,

who the hell is this?

508

:

I want to go to one, and he's

probably like, what the fuck?

509

:

As a surprise to no one,

she never responded.

510

:

She's a kindergarten

511

:

Chris: teacher in LA.

512

:

She gets like five of those a month.

513

:

Jerome: Oh my God.

514

:

So she never responded and

it didn't occur to me later.

515

:

Like that probably sounded weird.

516

:

I probably shouldn't

have worded it like that.

517

:

But, but what I thought of was that scene

from the office where like Michael Scott.

518

:

Wants to open up a a dat an online

dating thing, but he wants women

519

:

to know that he wants a family?

520

:

So his screen name is Little Kid Lover?

521

:

Oh,

522

:

Chris: shit.

523

:

So so that's

524

:

Jerome: immediately what I thought of.

525

:

So this whole scene, where she's like,

I wanna see the dead people, and they're

526

:

like, I wanna see the dead people.

527

:

Are you, are you suffering?

528

:

She's like, I have writer's block.

529

:

I immediately thought of,

God, how real is that?

530

:

How real is that?

531

:

When people just don't understand

you when you have writer's block and

532

:

you ask weird questions like that.

533

:

Do you have a kindergarten

graduation that I can go to?

534

:

These are all the people who make it.

535

:

Chris: And when this was written,

she couldn't just go up on YouTube

536

:

and watch a million car crashes.

537

:

Jerome: Laughter.

538

:

So, I had a personal

reaction to that scene.

539

:

That's so funny.

540

:

So, okay, so then we get

into a montage of Harold.

541

:

He's really changing now.

542

:

He no longer counts his teeth brushing,

his footsteps, or even that he wears ties.

543

:

One hour in, though Karen

literally narrates, quote, His

544

:

journey was not yet complete.

545

:

So she's even saying it out loud.

546

:

Signature moment, one hour, eight

minutes in, as he professes his love

547

:

for Anna, they end up making love.

548

:

So he gets the girl one

hour, 11 minutes in.

549

:

He not only discovers Karen's identity.

550

:

But also that Hilbert knows who

she is and he's a huge fan and

551

:

he's been writing her letters.

552

:

She even mentioned earlier, remember

to the assistant, the assistant's

553

:

like, well, it's all this.

554

:

She's like, it's letters.

555

:

And she's like, do you respond?

556

:

She's like, I never respond to letters.

557

:

He realizes this and he realizes

that this is his chance to save

558

:

his own life as to seek her out.

559

:

All is lost at one hour, 19 minute mark.

560

:

He finds her.

561

:

But discovers she's

already written his death.

562

:

Though it's only on sheets of

paper, she like hand wrote it,

563

:

she hasn't typed it up yet.

564

:

So it's not finished, but he realizes

that she does have him dying.

565

:

Dark Night of the Soul, Harold gives

the manuscript to Hilbert to read.

566

:

Looking for hope, find me anything,

is there a loophole in here somewhere?

567

:

Break into three, A and B

stories collide as Hilbert tells

568

:

Harold, That he has to die.

569

:

This is Karen's masterpiece and

he must go through with it and he

570

:

must go through with his own death.

571

:

All right, here we go.

572

:

Five point family gathering

the team while on the bus.

573

:

He reads the manuscript realizes.

574

:

Yes, he must go.

575

:

He must go through it, and he

tells Karen that he will go through

576

:

it, and he'll die in the end.

577

:

Two, execution of the plan.

578

:

Harold cleans up loose ends

at work, and spends one final

579

:

night with Anna, including how

to get her out of tax trouble.

580

:

Three, high tower surprise.

581

:

Not sure it's much of a surprise,

but Harold saves the boy on the

582

:

bike by pushing him out of the

way, and Denise, who's the bus

583

:

driver at that point, hits him.

584

:

Again, this is the third and final

installment of the rule of three.

585

:

The kid on the bike causes

yet another accident.

586

:

Dig down deep.

587

:

He wakes up in the hospital.

588

:

Karen has rewritten the

ending to keep him alive.

589

:

Execution of the new plan.

590

:

Harold has Anna.

591

:

Now he is whole.

592

:

He is an integer.

593

:

Side notes on the goals.

594

:

So you see the major difference

between the two films, right?

595

:

When I was talking about the

protagonists, At least in their arcs.

596

:

Yeah, right.

597

:

This, this, this one is totally

a save the cat arc, right?

598

:

Like, yeah.

599

:

I, I feel Flannery's probably

a flat arc at the time.

600

:

Not that that's bad, but it's

just the style of writing.

601

:

And Harold is a total character arc.

602

:

He's clearly different at the

end than he was at the beginning.

603

:

And aside from Anna, look.

604

:

How different he views life, you

know, he doesn't count shit anymore.

605

:

You know what I mean?

606

:

He doesn't he doesn't like

Save time tying his tie.

607

:

You know what I mean?

608

:

Like he's a completely different

person Yeah, I like how at

609

:

Chris: the end of the movie though

dustin hoffman professor hilbert He

610

:

he's upset with her for changing it.

611

:

Wait, wait

612

:

Jerome: Wait, I have, I, I,

I left that out for a reason.

613

:

I left that out for a reason, okay?

614

:

Alright.

615

:

Now, unlike Wildcat, where I

had some minor criticisms, I

616

:

have some major criticisms here.

617

:

Story issues.

618

:

The opening setup makes you believe

that the watch will be a significant,

619

:

more significant than it actually is.

620

:

Karen even says in narration,

the watch changed everything.

621

:

That's a quote.

622

:

What did the watch do?

623

:

The watch doesn't change shit.

624

:

She says the watch changes everything.

625

:

His life is affected

because he can hear her.

626

:

The narrator.

627

:

It's got nothing to do

with the fucking watch.

628

:

The watch does its, its job of like,

letting him know when his break is up.

629

:

Right wakes him up in the morning and it

even goes on the fritz when Anna's near

630

:

But he doesn't catch any of that shit.

631

:

Well, he catches the

fact that it's an alarm

632

:

Chris: Yeah

633

:

Jerome: But it's not like though the watch

unless I miss something the watch doesn't

634

:

significantly play a part in his arc

635

:

Chris: Right.

636

:

Jerome: I didn't like that.

637

:

Also writer David Mamet has a concept

that he calls Why here why now as in?

638

:

The story needs to make sense

and why it's happening right now.

639

:

Strangers in the Fiction never

really explains why now, all of a

640

:

sudden, he can hear the narration.

641

:

You can assume she's written

most of the book by now, right?

642

:

She's only getting writer's

block at the ending.

643

:

He hasn't heard her yet.

644

:

Why is he hearing her now?

645

:

She's written several other books.

646

:

They mentioned that she's

written several other books and

647

:

the hero dies in every book.

648

:

And she,

649

:

Chris: I love how she was like wondering

how many people she killed in real life.

650

:

Yeah.

651

:

Like if he's real, how many

real people have I killed?

652

:

Jerome: Right.

653

:

So, but oddly enough, again, for some

reason, she blames the wristwatch,

654

:

but you know, it's, it's, it's.

655

:

But it's not the wristwatch, it's her.

656

:

But why now?

657

:

Like, that's one thing

that this movie fails on.

658

:

Yeah.

659

:

And just to pick a random example,

this is just random, I just picked

660

:

this one out of my fucking head.

661

:

On why here and why now.

662

:

In the movie Parenthood.

663

:

1989 Steve Martin movie.

664

:

It's a, a movie simply

about a family, right?

665

:

It's going on about their lives.

666

:

Films like that find it hard to nail down

a hook, but I think it's clear that that

667

:

story kicks in when Tom Hall shows up,

who oddly enough plays the psychiatrist,

668

:

the HR psychiatrist in this movie.

669

:

So he shows up in that movies, the

youngest son, when he shows up, the whole

670

:

movie kind of kicks into gear, right?

671

:

The compulsive

672

:

Chris: gambler.

673

:

Yeah.

674

:

Jerome: Yeah.

675

:

The quirky things get quirkier, quirkier,

the weirder, the things get weirder.

676

:

Funny scenes get funnier.

677

:

Like everything seems to be on

hook when he shows up, right?

678

:

Like that sets that story in motion.

679

:

And if you ask why here, why now?

680

:

You just said it.

681

:

He's a degenerate gambler.

682

:

He's out of money and

loan sharks are after him.

683

:

That's why he goes home.

684

:

There's drama

685

:

Chris: attached

686

:

Jerome: to try to get money.

687

:

Yeah.

688

:

So that's what sets that story in motion.

689

:

I don't think stranger than fiction

clearly dictates why here, why now,

690

:

why all of a sudden can he hear her?

691

:

They never really say, do they?

692

:

Unless I missed it.

693

:

Chris: No,

694

:

Jerome: they never really say

why he can suddenly hear her.

695

:

So.

696

:

That to me is a flaw.

697

:

And now we get into what I,

698

:

Chris: what I named.

699

:

Yeah, I was just going to say, it's

yeah, it kind of like in I mean, it

700

:

could have been something simple, like

in liar, liar, the kid's birthday.

701

:

He wishes that his dad

can't tell a lie here.

702

:

Jerome: Why now?

703

:

Perfect example of why here?

704

:

Why now?

705

:

Why is it happening now?

706

:

Because this kid wished it.

707

:

Yeah.

708

:

On his birthday.

709

:

Yeah.

710

:

That's why.

711

:

So for all you beginning

writers And it's magic.

712

:

Chris: You don't have to explain it.

713

:

It's magic.

714

:

For all

715

:

Jerome: you beginning writers out

there, if you're looking for why

716

:

your hook happens, make sure you

have a solid why here, why now.

717

:

Okay.

718

:

So now perhaps the biggest plot

issue I have with this entire film.

719

:

So once we're in act two, and

Harold has gone to the psychiatrist,

720

:

He's gone to Hilbert about the narration.

721

:

He's now on a mission to stop

or solve the narration problem.

722

:

Right?

723

:

Why doesn't Karen know this?

724

:

She's writing the story!

725

:

Yeah.

726

:

Right?

727

:

After all, I mean, if she's

dictating his thoughts, laying out

728

:

his motivations and directions,

729

:

Chris: Wouldn't she know?

730

:

Part of the plot is he can hear it.

731

:

Jerome: Yeah, the plot

is that he can hear her.

732

:

So if she, if she knows this, doesn't,

isn't she writing his actions that

733

:

are rooted in seeking her out?

734

:

Like, that's the part that I'm like, wait

a second, wait a second, whoa, back up.

735

:

So, like, like, okay,

I'll give you an example.

736

:

So, the scene where he's buying a guitar.

737

:

He can hear Karen's narration on

which guitar he's gonna select, right?

738

:

So, did Dave really turn

him on to buying a guitar?

739

:

Or did Karen turn him

on to buying a guitar?

740

:

Did he really have those thoughts himself?

741

:

Or did Karen write those thoughts in?

742

:

Right?

743

:

So The idea that no matter how much

control you think you have, the

744

:

elements of your life, or in Karen's

case, her book, will eventually take

745

:

on a life of their own and throw the

normal mundane existence into turmoil.

746

:

That's the only explanation I can give

is that She was writing, and when she

747

:

stopped writing, to like, go smoke on

a fucking ledge somewhere, cause she's

748

:

a psychopath, that he was continuing

to live the life without her knowing.

749

:

Chris: Yeah.

750

:

Jerome: Right?

751

:

Like that's the only thing I can think of

was that he continued to go on on her own.

752

:

That he went on on his own.

753

:

Chris: Okay.

754

:

I mean, unless, yeah, I guess

maybe she wasn't writing his life.

755

:

She was just observing

it and writing it down.

756

:

Is that how you could look at it?

757

:

But she

758

:

Jerome: was, but she was writing a book.

759

:

So in her mind, he didn't exist yet.

760

:

She didn't know

761

:

Chris: know, but she was

observing it in her mind.

762

:

It's the way writers work, right?

763

:

I mean, they don't know what they're

going to write until they see

764

:

Jerome: it in real life!

765

:

I know.

766

:

So, alright, so, and the funny thing

is, I thought, So when I first watched

767

:

Wildcat, I was like, Stranger than

Fiction was not a good pairing.

768

:

We should have paired it with

The Hours because The Hours

769

:

seems to be more like Wildcat.

770

:

And then I watched Stranger than

Fiction and I was like, no, no, this is

771

:

a perfect pairing because you get the

sense of in Wildcat, the stories you're

772

:

seeing are figments of her imagination.

773

:

Yeah,

774

:

Chris: yeah.

775

:

Jerome: Right.

776

:

They're her writing.

777

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

778

:

But in Stranger than Fiction, you're like.

779

:

Is this a figment of her imagination

or is this really happening?

780

:

Right,

781

:

Chris: right, right.

782

:

Jerome: And she's

writing it as it happens.

783

:

So they're actually a better pair.

784

:

All right, religious connotations.

785

:

Here we go.

786

:

I think both of these films, obviously,

that we talked about today are

787

:

deeply rooted in religious aspects.

788

:

Obviously, Wildcat is kind of

on the nose about Catholicism.

789

:

You know, they don't hide from it.

790

:

Chris: Well, it's yeah.

791

:

Yeah.

792

:

I mean, it's not a fictional story.

793

:

So, you're just telling her story, right?

794

:

It's part

795

:

Jerome: of the story.

796

:

It's it's part of who it is

but I have a test for you.

797

:

I'm going to ask a spiritual

question about stranger than fiction.

798

:

Okay.

799

:

Okay, you're ready.

800

:

Yeah.

801

:

Is Karen God and Hilbert is the devil.

802

:

Hilbert The psychiatrist.

803

:

Now wait, yeah, yes.

804

:

Now wait, now listen.

805

:

Karen is the creator of

Harold and his world.

806

:

He questions her every chance

to get through this and he

807

:

admits she's infallible, right?

808

:

He admits that her assessments

of his thoughts and his

809

:

feelings are always accurate.

810

:

They're right on.

811

:

Chris: With a better vocabulary.

812

:

With a better vocabulary.

813

:

Jerome: He begs for his life.

814

:

When he knows she'll eventually kill him.

815

:

If Harold represents

humanity, Carol, Karen is God.

816

:

And almost a sort of like a wrecked

one because she admits, like you said,

817

:

how many heroes have I killed before?

818

:

Yeah.

819

:

How many people have I killed before?

820

:

Right?

821

:

She has a hard time dealing

with Harold as humanity.

822

:

Now, wait, it gets better.

823

:

Hilbert.

824

:

If he is truly the devil, on the

other hand, he's jealous of Karen.

825

:

He's jealous of her success.

826

:

Wait, he writes her all the time.

827

:

She'd never responds, right?

828

:

That bothers him.

829

:

He feels less than because of it.

830

:

He's seeking her attention and approval.

831

:

When Karen reveals at the

end that she wants to save

832

:

Harold Hilbert is against it.

833

:

He questions her.

834

:

Chris: That's good.

835

:

I mean, let me stop right there.

836

:

So it's a good comparison just

because I mean the story of

837

:

Satan He's a fallen angel.

838

:

He wants to be God

839

:

Jerome: So and I put it remember if

Harold represents humanity Hilbert's

840

:

question here is saying why do

you want to save him in a sense?

841

:

He's saying why do you

want to save these people?

842

:

Right.

843

:

If Harold represents humanity, he relishes

in her creations, suffering, and he's

844

:

disappointed when Harold does not.

845

:

Yeah.

846

:

So in a, in a sort of like other

worldly religious views, as we

847

:

talked about wildcat already God in

this film and Hilbert is the devil

848

:

and Harold represents humanity.

849

:

Yeah,

850

:

Chris: that's

851

:

Jerome: pretty,

852

:

Chris: that's a good take.

853

:

It makes even more sense after drinking

a bunch of whiskey and a few beers.

854

:

Jerome: Oh dude.

855

:

No, I was drunk when I, when I finished

this movie and when I watched the

856

:

end of it and that scene came up

where he was obviously disappointed.

857

:

Chris: Yeah.

858

:

Jerome: I remember thinking I was

like, dude, Hilbert's the devil and

859

:

then it all started to make sense.

860

:

Chris: Yeah.

861

:

Jerome: Then I was like, wait a minute.

862

:

If Hilbert's the devil, then Karen is God.

863

:

And I was like, Oh my God,

because she's the creator.

864

:

She's writing this.

865

:

And then, and then it hit me.

866

:

I was like, wait a minute.

867

:

Harold is humans.

868

:

He's humanity.

869

:

And it all made sense at that point.

870

:

I was like, Oh my God, I get it now.

871

:

Chris: The whole movie is a metaphor.

872

:

Jerome: I get it.

873

:

It's a metaphor for religion or

at least for spiritualism, God

874

:

versus the devil, good versus evil.

875

:

And, and if you know, like you said,

if you read enough about Satan, You

876

:

understand that the devil's purpose is

that he's more than not just jilted.

877

:

He feels jilted by God.

878

:

Right?

879

:

Like, he's less than.

880

:

He wants to be equal to.

881

:

So Hilbert's jealousy?

882

:

Like, when you really read into

it, you're like, Oh my God.

883

:

It's the same thing.

884

:

It's the same thing.

885

:

He writes her letters

and she never responds.

886

:

And he's pissed off about that.

887

:

Right?

888

:

Chris: Yeah.

889

:

So it was.

890

:

It reminds me of the, the story

in the movie Amadeus, where what's

891

:

the guy's name that plays Solari?

892

:

Jerome: Salieri.

893

:

Chris: Salieri.

894

:

That's how you say it.

895

:

F.

896

:

Jerome: F.

897

:

Marie Abraham.

898

:

Yeah.

899

:

He has the most.

900

:

Again, Almadeus is played by Tom Hulce.

901

:

How many times are we

going to mention him today?

902

:

Tom Hulce

903

:

Chris: is, yeah, that's

the law of threes, right?

904

:

The rule of three.

905

:

We hit our

906

:

Jerome: three with Tom Hulce today.

907

:

Chris: Yeah, right.

908

:

Almadeus.

909

:

But, I mean, Salieri, he plays the

perfect Satan figure in that movie too.

910

:

Yeah.

911

:

Oh God, there's that one

scene where he did it.

912

:

We got to do that movie.

913

:

We gotta do that movie sometime.

914

:

Jerome: It's so interesting for for

all of you film goers out there.

915

:

Any movie where jealousy Is a

key component ask yourself is the

916

:

person that's the most jealous.

917

:

Are they satan in the movie?

918

:

Are they representing satan?

919

:

Well, and if they are

and there's a reason why

920

:

Chris: that storyline works in so

many movies It's the oldest story.

921

:

Jerome: It's the oldest story.

922

:

Yes.

923

:

Yeah, absolutely,

924

:

Chris: you know So yeah, cool.

925

:

Jerome: So ask yourself the

next time you see a movie where

926

:

somebody is insanely jealous.

927

:

Number one, ask yourself,

are they the devil?

928

:

Number two, if they are.

929

:

Who's God?

930

:

Yeah, who's God in the movie?

931

:

It hit me like a ton of bricks

when I was like Karen is God.

932

:

She's the creator.

933

:

I don't know man I'll be it.

934

:

I was drunk at the time,

but still I'm drunk now.

935

:

So I have no problem retelling it

936

:

Oh, shit.

937

:

So, oddly enough, two religious

movies we talked about today.

938

:

Yeah, didn't even see that coming.

939

:

Didn't know they were both

going to be religious.

940

:

We thought they were about both writers,

but no, they're both about religion.

941

:

Alright, Six Degrees, hit me up.

942

:

Chris: Oh my gosh, let me get my phone.

943

:

So, you know, in Six Degrees of

Separation uh, we try to see if there's

944

:

a character from both movies, that

we can connect within six degrees.

945

:

Not using the movies that we talked about,

so that's an added level of difficulty.

946

:

And so I, and we, I always try to pick

a couple of actors that haven't been in

947

:

too many films, even though I know both

the, you probably got this in pretty,

948

:

cause I looked at some of their films

and there's one or two films in both

949

:

of these actors where I'm like, okay,

he'll probably get this pretty easily.

950

:

But anyways, so it from Wildcat.

951

:

Jerome: I don't think

you really looked at it.

952

:

Chris: Did you have a hard time?

953

:

Jerome: Well, we said you can't do TV

shows, and we can't do made for TV movies.

954

:

Chris: Yeah, I know.

955

:

That leaves only a couple of movies

for That means Brian Alright, go ahead.

956

:

Tell me your people.

957

:

So, Raphael Is it Raphael?

958

:

Raphael Cassell.

959

:

Casel?

960

:

Jerome: Cassell or Cassell.

961

:

Cassell, who

962

:

Chris: played O.

963

:

E.

964

:

Parker in one of the

short stories in Wildcat.

965

:

Yeah.

966

:

And Brian Kelly, who played an E.

967

:

R.

968

:

Orderly.

969

:

In in, in Stranger than Fiction.

970

:

Jerome: So Brian Kelly had done a lot

of TV work and made for TV movies.

971

:

Chris: That's why I picked him because

I thought he was going to Other

972

:

Jerome: than Stranger than Fiction,

he's only been in one other actual film.

973

:

Now, I don't even know if it was

released, but it's, it could be found

974

:

on streaming, but it's not made for TV.

975

:

It's an actual movie.

976

:

And that movie is called Heist 88,

which came out last year,:

977

:

Now in that movie is Courtney B.

978

:

Vance.

979

:

He's the lead.

980

:

He was in Hunt for October 1990 with

Sam Neill, who was in Jurassic Park.

981

:

1993, who with Wayne Knight, you

know, is Newman from Seinfeld.

982

:

And he was in a movie called blindspotting

in:

983

:

one of only his other feature films.

984

:

He's another one that's been in a lot

of TV, a lot of TV movies, not a lot of.

985

:

Actual films, I would say theatrical

releases, but nowadays you have to

986

:

say theatrical slash streaming movies.

987

:

Can you go

988

:

Chris: over that again?

989

:

I just want to look at who

is the, the first one you

990

:

connected to is Heist 88, right?

991

:

Jerome: Highest 88 and Courtney B.

992

:

Vance Courtney B.

993

:

Vance.

994

:

Okay.

995

:

He's the most

996

:

Chris: recognizable face in that list.

997

:

He's

998

:

Jerome: the lead.

999

:

He's the lead in high state.

:

00:45:55,425 --> 00:45:59,065

He's in hunt for red October

with Sam Neal, who's in Jurassic

:

00:45:59,065 --> 00:46:02,775

park with Wayne Knight, who's

in blind spotting with Rafael.

:

00:46:03,215 --> 00:46:04,285

So I got it in four.

:

00:46:05,115 --> 00:46:06,235

That's respectable.

:

00:46:06,505 --> 00:46:07,755

It could probably be done less.

:

00:46:08,015 --> 00:46:10,935

I don't actually, I don't know if

this one could be done less because

:

00:46:10,965 --> 00:46:15,380

each of these guys have like, Two or

three feature films and that's it.

:

00:46:15,390 --> 00:46:15,850

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,563

I knew it was going to be a

challenge just looking at that.

:

00:46:18,563 --> 00:46:19,150

A lot of short

:

00:46:19,150 --> 00:46:26,030

Jerome: films, a lot of television, and

a lot of like, uh, made for TV stuff.

:

00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:26,440

Yeah.

:

00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:32,790

So again, we used to say theatrical

film, but in today's era, you

:

00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:35,320

gotta be able to say streaming

too because movies, sometimes

:

00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:36,860

movies go right to streaming, so.

:

00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,010

Chris: Right, and we always say it's

gotta be on the big screen, right?

:

00:46:40,455 --> 00:46:42,335

Jerome: Yeah, but we can't anymore.

:

00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:42,825

We can't.

:

00:46:43,345 --> 00:46:44,745

It's the silver screen

:

00:46:44,795 --> 00:46:45,675

Chris: happy hour.

:

00:46:45,685 --> 00:46:47,175

Jerome: Those days are over.

:

00:46:47,215 --> 00:46:49,925

We're now in the streaming

screen happy hour.

:

00:46:49,925 --> 00:46:51,405

We gotta change the name of the podcast.

:

00:46:51,595 --> 00:46:52,255

Change the name.

:

00:46:52,505 --> 00:46:57,865

The streaming streaming

streaming screen happy hour.

:

00:46:58,580 --> 00:47:00,520

Chris: Just the streaming happy hour.

:

00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,910

Jerome: No, a silver screen still

represents that you're making movies.

:

00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:05,330

Yeah.

:

00:47:05,370 --> 00:47:06,270

And these are still movies.

:

00:47:06,270 --> 00:47:08,220

See any movies that go

straight to streaming and they

:

00:47:08,220 --> 00:47:09,300

don't make it to a theater?

:

00:47:09,550 --> 00:47:10,360

They're still movies.

:

00:47:10,530 --> 00:47:11,330

They're still movies.

:

00:47:11,810 --> 00:47:12,260

Oh.

:

00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:13,870

What?

:

00:47:15,850 --> 00:47:16,160

What?

:

00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:16,680

Hold on.

:

00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:17,700

Do you have breaking news?

:

00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,460

Chris: No, we gotta wrap this up soon.

:

00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:20,660

I got a message.

:

00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:23,970

I never got this message

from CleanFeed before.

:

00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:27,020

The browser is holding

a lot of recorded audio.

:

00:47:27,020 --> 00:47:36,140

It says, for very long sessions,

we recommend doing your own tests.

:

00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,780

If necessary, save your

recording at a convenient time,

:

00:47:39,780 --> 00:47:41,300

close it, and begin a new one.

:

00:47:43,005 --> 00:47:45,855

Jerome: Clean Feed's like,

You've eaten too much, sir.

:

00:47:45,995 --> 00:47:47,125

We're cutting you off.

:

00:47:48,035 --> 00:47:49,655

They're cutting us off at the bar.

:

00:47:49,675 --> 00:47:50,615

You drank too much.

:

00:47:50,625 --> 00:47:51,975

You drank too much.

:

00:47:52,025 --> 00:47:52,755

We're cutting you off.

:

00:47:53,015 --> 00:47:55,135

Clean Feed's a stingy bartender.

:

00:47:55,145 --> 00:47:58,395

Well, hey, in perfect timing,

we just finished Six Degrees,

:

00:47:58,405 --> 00:48:00,035

so let's land this plane.

:

00:48:01,710 --> 00:48:02,450

Chris: Good stuff, man.

:

00:48:02,450 --> 00:48:03,370

This was fun.

:

00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:07,910

if you did not hear the Part one

where we talked about Wildcat, both

:

00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,660

my brother and I hope that Wildcat is

nominated for multiple Academy Awards.

:

00:48:12,670 --> 00:48:13,340

Yes!

:

00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,480

My brother had some problems with the

script, but I loved it and because it's

:

00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:24,395

about Flannery O'Connor and her writing If

it was like an over the top blockbuster,

:

00:48:24,395 --> 00:48:27,535

I would say they did something wrong

because that's not who she was.

:

00:48:27,795 --> 00:48:28,135

Right.

:

00:48:28,135 --> 00:48:33,085

And so I, I, I appreciate the

problems my brother had, but I

:

00:48:33,085 --> 00:48:34,465

still think it's a fantastic movie.

:

00:48:34,475 --> 00:48:34,695

No,

:

00:48:34,695 --> 00:48:39,465

Jerome: I still, I still think even

with some minor, and I'm talking minor

:

00:48:39,555 --> 00:48:43,405

screenwriting issues because we've,

we've, we've lauded flat arcs before.

:

00:48:43,675 --> 00:48:46,065

Chris: And you had bigger issues

with stranger than fiction

:

00:48:46,065 --> 00:48:47,075

and that was a great movie.

:

00:48:47,595 --> 00:48:49,605

Jerome: Bigger issues with

stranger than fiction.

:

00:48:49,930 --> 00:48:53,020

So yeah, I hope, I hope

Ethan hits pay dirt here.

:

00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:56,130

I hope he strikes gold and Maya and Maya.

:

00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:57,400

I hope she is nominated.

:

00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,570

I hope they both get nominated.

:

00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,970

I think a wildcat should be

included at the year end Oscars.

:

00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:03,960

Straight into the picture.

:

00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,470

It was my first time watching it.

:

00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:06,350

I loved it.

:

00:49:06,370 --> 00:49:09,400

Had some issues, but also had a little.

:

00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,680

Spiritual, religious finding there.

:

00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:11,950

Right.

:

00:49:12,220 --> 00:49:13,000

Chris: That's good stuff, man.

:

00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,820

Jerome: Which, which made me

appreciate it even more because

:

00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:19,380

when you get to that level, you sort

of forgive the plot holes, right?

:

00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:22,630

You start to, like, when God's

involved, you forgive plot holes.

:

00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:24,100

You're like, Oh, well, God's involved.

:

00:49:24,110 --> 00:49:24,730

So it's all right.

:

00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:25,210

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:49:25,530 --> 00:49:28,070

Well, I don't think we even

have time for shout outs.

:

00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,420

So let's land the plane.

:

00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:32,330

Jerome: I have no shout outs

other than thank you to your wife,

:

00:49:32,330 --> 00:49:36,140

Jessie, who joined us on the first

episode, the wildcat episode.

:

00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:36,920

Chris: Thank you, Jessie.

:

00:49:37,485 --> 00:49:39,275

Jerome: Alright, keep

drinking and keep watching.

:

00:49:39,285 --> 00:49:41,255

Chris: Go support your local cinema.

:

00:49:42,575 --> 00:49:45,555

Well, if you're looking at your

podcast player, you're probably asking

:

00:49:45,555 --> 00:49:47,475

yourself, Why did they just sign off?

:

00:49:47,875 --> 00:49:49,125

There's several minutes left.

:

00:49:49,565 --> 00:49:50,485

You are correct.

:

00:49:50,505 --> 00:49:55,350

We actually kept talking after we

signed off and realized Oh, there was

:

00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,320

more content that we needed to bring.

:

00:49:57,570 --> 00:50:00,640

So stay tuned for some bonus content.

:

00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,450

And we already know that if you've

listened this long, you are a super fan.

:

00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:05,840

And we thank you for that.

:

00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:10,000

Please share this podcast with a

friend and enjoy the rest of the show.

:

00:50:11,260 --> 00:50:15,600

I rewatched Wildcat last night and.

:

00:50:16,745 --> 00:50:22,265

It hit me hard, you know, with

Jessie's autoimmune disease and the

:

00:50:22,265 --> 00:50:23,895

struggle this woman went through.

:

00:50:23,895 --> 00:50:28,055

I, I was right there next to her in some

of that, you know, cause I, I remember

:

00:50:28,055 --> 00:50:33,285

how bad Jessie got and thankfully we have

medication that Flannery O'Connor didn't

:

00:50:33,285 --> 00:50:40,575

have, but but man, when, when that scene

with uh, Liam Neeson, Dude, that's the

:

00:50:40,575 --> 00:50:41,175

scene in the movie.

:

00:50:41,185 --> 00:50:44,525

Maya Hawke's performance in that scene.

:

00:50:44,555 --> 00:50:45,795

Jerome: It's the scene in the movie.

:

00:50:45,845 --> 00:50:48,935

Chris: Oh, it just ripped my heart out.

:

00:50:48,945 --> 00:50:52,315

And I was, I was sitting there

and like Jessie was making

:

00:50:52,315 --> 00:50:53,565

fun of me, but I'm serious.

:

00:50:53,655 --> 00:50:56,385

I just had fricking tears

coming down my face.

:

00:50:56,805 --> 00:50:59,485

Cause I could feel it,

you know, I could feel it.

:

00:50:59,935 --> 00:51:06,895

And Liam Neeson's like, Portrayal of

the pastoral priest was perfect, man.

:

00:51:06,895 --> 00:51:09,105

He was just, man, he was just so good.

:

00:51:09,355 --> 00:51:10,915

Jerome: So here's the funny part.

:

00:51:10,985 --> 00:51:17,545

So strangely wildcat, I

didn't cry once I was in it.

:

00:51:17,625 --> 00:51:20,105

Like I was totally invested

and I'm like totally involved.

:

00:51:20,485 --> 00:51:22,765

But it never brought me to tears, but.

:

00:51:23,555 --> 00:51:29,955

Stranger than fiction Oddly enough when

he goes to her on the street and gives

:

00:51:29,955 --> 00:51:32,835

her the script and says I'll do it.

:

00:51:33,145 --> 00:51:33,765

Chris: Oh, yeah,

:

00:51:33,855 --> 00:51:35,015

Jerome: I'll go through dude.

:

00:51:35,015 --> 00:51:38,135

I was like, yeah That was powerful,

:

00:51:38,135 --> 00:51:38,405

Chris: too.

:

00:51:38,405 --> 00:51:38,775

Yeah

:

00:51:38,775 --> 00:51:40,905

Jerome: At that point I'm fucked up.

:

00:51:40,945 --> 00:51:43,345

I was already been drinking

when that happened.

:

00:51:43,345 --> 00:51:48,435

I was like god damn it, man Like Will

Smith is gonna die like he or Will Smith

:

00:51:52,205 --> 00:51:53,175

Freudian slip.

:

00:51:53,855 --> 00:51:54,825

Freudian slip.

:

00:51:57,245 --> 00:52:02,145

But no, when he, when he

acknowledges like, yeah, I need you.

:

00:52:02,185 --> 00:52:06,095

And remember that he reads

the script after Hilbert does.

:

00:52:06,525 --> 00:52:09,045

So Hilbert reads it and

says, you have to die.

:

00:52:09,065 --> 00:52:10,215

This is her masterpiece.

:

00:52:10,405 --> 00:52:11,885

And he's like, no, I don't want to die.

:

00:52:12,055 --> 00:52:15,395

But then when he reads it and

he goes to give it to her on the

:

00:52:15,395 --> 00:52:17,975

street, And she's already fucked up.

:

00:52:17,985 --> 00:52:20,605

Like, she doesn't, she's not even

sure if she wants to do this.

:

00:52:20,835 --> 00:52:21,155

Chris: Right.

:

00:52:21,185 --> 00:52:23,275

Jerome: But when he gives it to

her and says, yeah, I'll do it.

:

00:52:23,595 --> 00:52:23,985

I'll do it.

:

00:52:24,175 --> 00:52:26,675

Like that, that, like, I was like, dude.

:

00:52:26,675 --> 00:52:27,565

It was powerful.

:

00:52:27,765 --> 00:52:28,395

It was powerful.

:

00:52:28,395 --> 00:52:30,735

Chris: And the fact that he

actually went through with it, not

:

00:52:30,735 --> 00:52:32,235

knowing she was going to change it.

:

00:52:32,375 --> 00:52:32,835

Jerome: Right.

:

00:52:32,865 --> 00:52:33,665

Like, he was like.

:

00:52:33,695 --> 00:52:34,585

He freaking did it.

:

00:52:34,655 --> 00:52:37,085

If that's my purpose

in life, I will go out.

:

00:52:37,325 --> 00:52:38,435

Saving someone's life.

:

00:52:38,445 --> 00:52:41,355

Like that's like, it's

almost biblical, right?

:

00:52:41,465 --> 00:52:44,585

Chris: I should have

said this in the podcast.

:

00:52:44,605 --> 00:52:44,935

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:52:44,935 --> 00:52:45,845

And we didn't mention it.

:

00:52:45,865 --> 00:52:49,645

Chris: Well, I, maybe I'll add this in

as a bonus because I'm still recording.

:

00:52:50,145 --> 00:52:55,795

I said to Jessie at the end of that movie,

you know, if they wouldn't have added the

:

00:52:55,795 --> 00:53:00,345

end where she changed the script, this

could have been a Flannery O'Connor story.

:

00:53:01,045 --> 00:53:01,645

Yes.

:

00:53:01,685 --> 00:53:03,015

Where if he would have just died.

:

00:53:03,405 --> 00:53:07,115

Jerome: But ultimately,

what is, what is John 316?

:

00:53:08,285 --> 00:53:10,235

Chris: Yeah, for God so loved the world.

:

00:53:10,245 --> 00:53:10,725

Greater

:

00:53:10,725 --> 00:53:14,825

Jerome: love no man has than to give

of his life for another human being.

:

00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:15,870

Right.

:

00:53:16,130 --> 00:53:19,950

How biblical does that end up

being where he gives her the

:

00:53:19,950 --> 00:53:21,550

script and says, okay, I'll do it.

:

00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:23,710

Not knowing she's going

to rewrite the ending.

:

00:53:23,820 --> 00:53:24,820

He does it.

:

00:53:24,850 --> 00:53:27,440

He does it to save a life.

:

00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,780

He doesn't have to save a kid's life.

:

00:53:29,820 --> 00:53:31,610

Chris: So, you know what you could say?

:

00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:42,000

It's an imperfect comparison, but

instead of humanity, he represents Jesus.

:

00:53:42,830 --> 00:53:48,180

Who, in the biblical story, , I

in the, in the biblical story.

:

00:53:48,330 --> 00:53:48,870

Jerome: I got you.

:

00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:53,520

Chris: Jesus represented

humanity because sacrificing

:

00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:53,880

Jerome: himself.

:

00:53:53,955 --> 00:53:54,195

Because,

:

00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,010

Chris: because he was the second Adam

:

00:53:56,730 --> 00:53:59,220

Jerome: and he was sacrificing

himself for humanity.

:

00:53:59,220 --> 00:53:59,280

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:53:59,285 --> 00:54:01,920

The, the first Adam was

imperfect and sinned.

:

00:54:02,430 --> 00:54:06,220

Jesus represented this

humanity as the second Adam

:

00:54:06,270 --> 00:54:11,530

Jerome: and the devil was pissed

off that he did all that, right?

:

00:54:11,610 --> 00:54:13,290

You should add all this on the end.

:

00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,580

You should say, Hey, we have a bonus show.

:

00:54:16,980 --> 00:54:19,410

We have a bonus ad on where

my brother and I were still

:

00:54:19,410 --> 00:54:21,220

drinking and we decided to talk

:

00:54:21,220 --> 00:54:22,270

Chris: in religion.

:

00:54:22,650 --> 00:54:22,960

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:54:23,020 --> 00:54:25,200

Like seriously, that's a better point.

:

00:54:25,660 --> 00:54:27,540

It's not that he represents humanity.

:

00:54:27,550 --> 00:54:29,060

He represents Jesus.

:

00:54:29,585 --> 00:54:35,115

who gave himself up, he sacrificed

himself for humanity and that's

:

00:54:35,115 --> 00:54:36,635

what pissed the devil off the most.

:

00:54:37,765 --> 00:54:38,315

Chris: It's crazy.

:

00:54:38,855 --> 00:54:41,995

Jerome: Dude, who knew that this

episode would be all religion?

:

00:54:45,585 --> 00:54:48,935

Chris: And that's where we actually

did land the plane on this episode.

:

00:54:49,275 --> 00:54:50,495

Thanks again for listening.

:

00:54:50,905 --> 00:54:56,695

You can look us up on Facebook, Instagram,

and x, And we'd love to hear from you.

:

00:54:56,715 --> 00:54:58,625

Reach out to us on one of those platforms.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

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Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand