Wildcat (2023) - Stranger Than Wildcat - Part One

Chris: 00:00:00

Hey, this is Chris Wiegand, along with my wife, Jessie.

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Jessie: Hello.

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Chris: Today is going to

be a different episode.

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And so I decided to bring Jessie

up to help me pay a little tribute

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at the beginning of this episode.

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Just in memory of George

Wiegand, my uncle.

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Really more than an uncle.

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He's just been, He's been there

for the family and we lost him on

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Saturday and we are going to be

saying goodbye to him this Saturday.

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So in this special episode I

thought it was appropriate to

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make it a tribute to Uncle George.

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In this we're going to be talking about

Wildcat and it's about Flannery O'Connor.

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Jessie and I get into why

it was so meaningful to us.

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There's themes of justice,

redemption, wrestling with God.

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When I was telling this to my

mom she told me a story that

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she said I could retell here.

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My Uncle George I don't know how often

he said this or how often he told people

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this, but apparently if he had to get

near a church he wouldn't go inside.

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He'd stay by the door,

or sit by the door maybe.

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And when asked, it was because

he was afraid that the roof would

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cave in on all those nice people in

there because he went in the church.

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And I just, I, I loved his sense of humor.

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You know, I knew I wouldn't be able to

get through this without crying, but.

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Dammit.

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Ah.

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He's meant so much to so many people,

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so.

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Jessie: Yeah, so, so this episode

is for Uncle George, and for all

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of those who wrestle with God.

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Chris: Absolutely.

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This is happy hour, and Jessie

and I are going to have a

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little toast to Uncle George.

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Don't pull this out very

often, but it's my Blackened

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Limited Edition 72 Seasons, so.

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Jessie: Give me the little one.

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Chris: Oh yeah, and I got

the lion's shot for me, so.

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Here's to Uncle George.

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Jessie: To Uncle George.

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Chris: Oh.

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Wah!

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Man.

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Jessie: Ooh, that makes

you make a James Hetfield.

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Wah!

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Wah!

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Chris: That's why it's,

it's Metallica, Blackened.

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Jessie: Okay then.

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It, it does it.

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Chris: So, yeah so Tracy, George, Jenny.

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We just wanted to honor your dad.

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I tried to get my brother on here

today and he was unavailable.

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So we're on different time zones.

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but he raises his glass with us.

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So we love you guys.

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Welcome to the Silver Screen Happy Hour.

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I'm Chris Wiegand along

with my brother Jerome.

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Jerome: Present and accounted for.

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Chris: And our very first special guest.

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Jessie: Hi, I'm Jessi Wiegand.

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I married Chris and I'm

apparently related to Jerome now.

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There's not much I can do about that.

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But here I am to be on this show.

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Chris: This is gonna be fun.

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So I requested that we do

these movies and you Agreed.

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Jerome: This is definitely your episode.

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Chris: So, yeah, so let me just

kick it off with saying the first

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movie we're going to do, and we're

going to talk about our drinks in

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a second, but the first movie we're

going to do is Wildcat, and that's

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why I asked Jessie to join us today.

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She watched it with me the first time.

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We rented it.

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And while the credits were

rolling, I asked her to buy it.

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So she bought it after we

rented it, because I knew I

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was going to watch it again.

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And so we re watched it a couple nights

ago, and now we're ready to talk about it.

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So we'll get to why I asked her

to be here, because it just led

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to a lot of great conversation.

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Now I know this is a screenplay,

screenwriting, But there's a

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lot of personal things that

I loved about this movie.

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I can't wait to hear how you

break it down like you do with

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all the movies that we discuss.

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But so yeah, that'll be the

first movie we talk about.

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The other movie, and this might be a part

two but the other movie we're going to

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be discussing is Stranger Than Fiction.

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Came out in what, what year?

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Oh '06.

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Six.

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Yeah, so going on 20 years old.

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Holy cow.

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So because it's two, about two authors,

I didn't even say what Wildcat was about.

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Wildcat is about Flannery

O'Connor, who's a Catholic writer.

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And the other movie, Stranger Than Fiction

is also about a writer who's got writer's

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block and that's more of a comedy.

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And so I'm just going to say the drink

I'm pairing with this is a wonderful

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Irish whiskey called Writer's Tears.

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And And the fact that it's Irish is even

better because Flannery O'Connor, right?

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So I'm going to go ahead and

open that while you discuss

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what you're drinking, Jerome.

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Jerome: So I really didn't have anything

clever to tie in to the podcast today.

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So when in doubt Of course I have

my lightsabers, you know, I always

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have my lightsabers ready to go.

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But aside from that,

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Are you done?

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I, I have a bottle, it's not Irish.

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Jessie: Wow, babe.

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That's intense.

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Jerome: Sorry.

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Are you done?

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Chris: Yeah.

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Nah, I'm just getting started.

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Jerome: So I brought out a nice

12 year old Macallan Scotch.

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So it's Scottish, it's not Irish.

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But, you know, we're here

to enjoy some nice drinks.

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So now, my turn.

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Chris: Oh, this is nice.

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This is triple distilled Irish whiskey.

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Yeah.

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Jerome: Okay, hang on.

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Hang on.

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Chris: Nice.

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Jerome: Are you ready?

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Chris: Man, there's a lot

of ice in that scotch, sir.

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Jerome: Well, I thought you said on

the last episode, Oh, I like to put ice

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in it, and the scholars agree with me.

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Chris: I'm going neat

on the Irish whiskey.

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So, Jessie, what are you drinking?

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Jessie: This is the part

I was looking forward to.

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You know,

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Jerome: actually, we're kind of dicks,

like, shouldn't the lady go first?

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Like, here we are, we're

just doing our drinks first.

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Jessie: It doesn't matter.

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I'm good.

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I actually feel like that

this was set up perfectly.

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So I had the opportunity,

because of the close proximity,

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to drink the writer's tears.

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But at the last moment, I decided

to go with A nice bottle of Menage

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a Trois since the three of us.

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Jerome: How fitting , how fitting

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Jessie: would be hanging out tonight?

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You'd And so Pat, you

know here, here you go.

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Am I supposed to make the noise?

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You guys?

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You gotta hear all the noises going.

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Oh yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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Oh my gosh.

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You guys, that's the end of

the bottle of menage trois.

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'cause I might, for

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Jerome: anyone that's listening,

she didn't start drinking already

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and then, and now it's gone.

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Oh, I'm assuming that bottle was opened.

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Jessie: Well, it was,

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Jerome: it was open like an hour ago.

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Chris: I think she had a glass

on the patio while she was

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waiting for the podcast to start.

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Jessie: I did.

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I, I had a glass before this started

because I thought, well, I'll

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just have a glass of wine while

I'm reading my book and then I'll

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come upstairs and do the thing.

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But then this was, I realized

what I was drinking and I was

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like, Oh dang, that's perfect.

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Jerome: You guys are going

to be interested, well, maybe

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you'll be interested to hear

my thoughts on this movie.

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At least in the structure and all of that.

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Yeah, let's go.

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All right.

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We're going to do Wildcat first.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Here's the specs.

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2023 directed by Ethan Hawke, written

by Ethan Hawke and Shelby Gaines.

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Now, before I continue 2023

was its original release date.

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It was in limited release.

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Actually, I'll get to that.

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That's in the notes.

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This is Hawk's fifth feature film.

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Three of the five, including

Wildcat and a previous documentary

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are all based on real life people.

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So, kind of a thing of his.

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He likes that.

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Wildcat, of course, is based on

the short stories and a brief part

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of the life of writer Flannery

O'Connor, as my brother mentioned.

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This is also Hawk's fifth

feature length screenplay.

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Gaines his writing partner mostly

has a resume involving music

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specifically composing, but this is

his first credit as a screenwriter.

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Running time is one hour, 43 minutes.

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I couldn't, anywhere that I

looked online, I couldn't get a

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disclosed budget for this film.

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It's like nowhere.

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Chris: I looked hard for that too.

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Jerome: It's safe to say

though, it's a very low budget.

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Yeah.

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But it, it premiered at the 50th Telluride

st,: 2023

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That's why it has a 2023 date, although

it's not technically it wasn't technically

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in wide release until this year.

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Actually, it's not even

in wide release yet.

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It was shown at the 2023

Toronto Film Festival 10 days

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after that on September 11th.

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In January of this year, it was picked up

by the distribution company, Oscilloscope.

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And they released it in limited

theaters in New York and L.

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A.

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on May 3rd of this year.

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That's how we all got to see

it and it went streaming.

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It, it, because it was

released in New York and L.

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A.

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in May of this year, it's

eligible for this year's Oscars.

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So, as of now, of course when I wrote

this, this was like a week or two ago.

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As of then, it was up to

about 560, 000 in its release.

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So, very limited release.

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I do expect that if it gains some hype,

and more importantly, come February, if

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it gets nominated for Oscars, people are

going to be streaming this left and right,

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and it's going to easily, it might have

already made its money back, we don't

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know, we don't know how much it costs.

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Chris: Well, and I, I'm just curious

because it went to streaming so

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quickly and it wasn't in wide

release, I'm, I'm guessing more

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people have paid to watch it?

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Streaming than did at the theater by now.

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Jerome: Oh, I'm sure.

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Chris: You know, I'm sure.

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So, and now do they count the box?

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Is that just box office numbers or do

they count what they made from Amazon

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and all the other streaming services?

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Well, it

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Jerome: depends if you're gonna go

on like box office Mojo, I think

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it's just tickets at the theater.

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Okay.

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But, but when you look on like

IMDB and it says it's overall

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gross, that's everything.

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Okay.

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But.

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It's also cost money.

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Distributing a film is expensive.

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So they probably didn't have the money.

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Oscilloscope might not have the

money to go nationwide right now.

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They got it in New York and LA.

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If it gets picked up by some hype or Oscar

nominations, you can bet that somebody

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like Fox Searchlight or Focus Features

or somebody bigger will come along and

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say, Okay, we'll get it nationwide.

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We'll pay for it.

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As long as the first 15, 20

million it makes goes to us

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for putting it in theaters.

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So, that's the business side of it.

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Right now we're just gonna talk

about the artistic side of it.

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Chris: Yep.

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Jerome: It has met with

mixed reviews by the critics.

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Rotten Tomatoes has it around 46

positive review percentage, while

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Metacritic scores it at 53 out of 100.

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So, like right down the fairway,

kind of right down the middle.

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It focuses on five, specifically

five short stories, The Life You

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Saved May Be Your Own, Parker's Back,

Revelation, Everything That Rises Must

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Converge, and Good Country People,

though there are references to some

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of her other writings in the film.

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It stars Maya Hawke as Flannery O'Connor,

Laura Linney as Regina, her mother,

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Philip Edinger as Robert Cal Lowell.

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Christine Dye as Duchess, Willa

Fitzgerald as Elizabeth Hardwick, Liam

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Neeson as Father Flynn, Alessandro

Nivola as John Shelby, John Selby

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and has special appearances by

people such as Vincent D'Onofrio and

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Steve Zahn, who appear as characters

that are played out in her writing.

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All right, when was the

first time you saw this film?

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A few weeks ago.

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And what did you think?

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Chris: Well, we were first

introduced to it because of

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Jessie's interview with Ethan Hawke.

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Jessie: No, it wasn't Jessie's interview.

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You're such a, you make things

to be bigger than they are.

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So, so,

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Jerome: no, no, no, no.

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We're going to play this up as if

Ethan Hawke himself is listening.

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So so Ethan, I don't know if you know

this, you were interviewed by Jessie.

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It was a great interview.

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Jessie: Yeah, it was fabulous.

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Jerome: Okay, go ahead.

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Jessie: Yeah, no, I mean, I just

had the opportunity to be in a press

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conference with Ethan when he talked

to the Catholic Media Association.

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So I'm a CMA member.

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through my job and they did a press

conference talking about this movie.

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And so I was like, Hmm, not sure how

much that has to do with my job, but

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because of being able to be in the

room, I wanted to be in the room.

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I'm just a huge fan of Ethan Hawke and

just wanted to hear what was going on in.

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I mean, this opportunity for people in

Catholic media to have their voice heard,

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their faith be talked about in a positive

way or whatever, it's just a cool thing.

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So I found that really interesting and

I hadn't heard about the movie until

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then and then was totally intrigued

to find out, you know, what it was

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and made Chris watch it with me.

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Any movie about a writer

is going to get me.

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I mean, literally.

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Best favorite movies for me, best

stories are always the stories

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about writers or the stories about

the heroine who is also a writer

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written by a heroine who's a writer.

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So it's just my vibe.

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So of course I'm, I'm gonna

I'm gonna want to watch this.

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But the other reason was because I had

never really heard of Flannery O'Connor.

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So, I don't think that this was literature

that was in my AP English class.

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I mean, it was always English student

literature, reading all of the things

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that were on those lists that you would

get in school, where they'd say, all

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of the smart people read these books.

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And I was like, well, I'm

going to read all these books.

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It's just how I've been

wired since I was a kid.

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I always wanted to be a writer.

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And I was always fascinated

with the journey of a writer.

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But I was like, wait a minute,

how have I never read her?

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And then we watched the

movie and I knew why.

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It's like, I literally

think she's censored.

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From the public education system.

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I think her stuff is just too

edgy, controversial, the language.

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I mean, I know for myself, at one point,

because I'm the reader and I usually

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read aloud really well, Chris was like,

well, why don't you just read it to me?

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And I want, I want to start reading

her short, short stories aloud to him.

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And I was like, I can't, I

can't, I can't read that.

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I can't say that word.

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Jerome: So, so that's, that's interesting.

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So when you say censored,

you mean by Catholic media?

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Jessie: No, by the public school system.

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I didn't go to catholic school.

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I went to public school and read

tons of other things, but Flannery

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O'Connor was never on the list.

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Jerome: But she wasn't on the

list in Catholic school either.

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Yeah, I went to Catholic school.

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Jessie: Yeah, which is fascinating

because now I feel like, I

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mean, honestly, Ethan Hawke was

introduced to me through the CMA.

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So now Catholic media is like, hey, let's

talk about The people that share our

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faith that have created art and let's, you

know, be excited about this or whatever.

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But it was just not something that

I had ever been introduced to either

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in, in high school or in college.

325

: 00:15:17

So, all of that to say I love Ethan Hawke.

326

: 00:15:20

I love stories about writers.

327

: 00:15:22

Let me watch this movie.

328

: 00:15:23

Let me make my husband watch this movie.

329

: 00:15:26

And then we're watching it

and, you know, quite honestly,

330

: 00:15:29

like, I'm not a screenwriter.

331

: 00:15:30

I don't have any intellectual, you

know, It's just not my thing to take a

332

: 00:15:35

movie apart in the way that you guys do.

333

: 00:15:38

But I had emotional, an emotional

reaction to watching the movie.

334

: 00:15:43

The way they went back and forth between

the stories, And the story of Flannery

335

: 00:15:49

and the way they used Flannery and

her mother as the main characters.

336

: 00:15:54

As the main characters.

337

: 00:15:54

Maya Hawke.

338

: 00:15:55

Yeah, Maya Hawke.

339

: 00:15:57

Yeah.

340

: 00:15:57

Chris: Totally.

341

: 00:15:57

Totally.

342

: 00:15:58

Jessie: Yeah, the way they did that, and

then, you know, so like, I kind of knew

343

: 00:16:01

that there was this whole mother daughter

thing going on, I knew that there was

344

: 00:16:05

this intergenerational struggle between

the way her mother was raised and the

345

: 00:16:09

way she was seeing the world change

and all of that hypocrisy and all of

346

: 00:16:13

that, but just watching that movie, the

artistry of it, And then the way they

347

: 00:16:18

integrated her writing, which was so

raw, she just writes so transparently and

348

: 00:16:25

with so much courage about human nature.

349

: 00:16:29

And the fact that, like, there's,

there's like a lot of yuck in us.

350

: 00:16:35

And so I was just intrigued by that.

351

: 00:16:38

Jerome: I have one thing to

add though for the listeners.

352

: 00:16:40

Go for it.

353

: 00:16:41

Jessie sort of glossed over This

conference call that she was on with

354

: 00:16:45

Ethan Hawk . I, I, I believe that she was

pressured greatly by myself to at least

355

: 00:16:52

mention or ask a damn question if he had

listen on behalf of the silver screen, on

356

: 00:16:57

behalf of the silver screen, happy hour.

357

: 00:16:58

If he ever bothered to listen

to Ethan Hawk Day, which was

358

: 00:17:02

one of our most famous episodes.

359

: 00:17:04

And she failed to do so.

360

: 00:17:06

So Ethan, if you're listening, we

have an entire episode that's just

361

: 00:17:10

dedicated to two of your movies

where we, I mean, we just fawn all

362

: 00:17:15

over you like long lost lovers.

363

: 00:17:17

Jerome fawns.

364

: 00:17:18

Chris: I love you too, Ethan,

but not as much as he does.

365

: 00:17:21

Jerome: I do fawn and she was

given specific direction to bring

366

: 00:17:25

it up in the conference call.

367

: 00:17:28

And from what I understand, there was

some sort of communication failure.

368

: 00:17:30

It didn't happen that way.

369

: 00:17:31

Jessie: Yeah, I was definitely torn that

day between you and 14 year old Jessie.

370

: 00:17:37

I mean, my own 14 year old self, who was

assured by probably, like, Sassy Magazine

371

: 00:17:42

that I was very compatible with Ethan

Hawke and could potentially marry this

372

: 00:17:46

man because we both liked pizza and No,

373

: 00:17:50

Jerome: I'm not saying that I also did

a compatibility thing with Ethan Hawke.

374

: 00:17:55

But I'm not not saying it either.

375

: 00:17:58

Jessie: That's alright.

376

: 00:17:58

I mean, I get it.

377

: 00:18:00

I totally get it.

378

: 00:18:00

Alright Chris,

379

: 00:18:01

Jerome: it's your turn.

380

: 00:18:03

How did you feel?

381

: 00:18:04

Chris: Yeah, so it's funny because when

we sat down to watch the movie, you know,

382

: 00:18:09

you've kind of trained me to start looking

for things in these movies that I'm

383

: 00:18:14

watching, but I very much had a similar

reaction that Jessie was talking about

384

: 00:18:19

where just an emotional, an emotional

response and I, I don't, I, it, you

385

: 00:18:25

know, to put my finger on it there's

multiple reasons like, like her struggle.

386

: 00:18:31

Is I, is, is relatable in our

family to a degree with Jessie has

387

: 00:18:36

an autoimmune disease and has had

seasons of real struggle and the

388

: 00:18:41

Maya Hawk did such an amazing job

portraying the physical and emotional.

389

: 00:18:48

turmoil that she was in as a result of

having lupus and, and the frustration

390

: 00:18:54

of wanting, having this desire to be

a writer and you know, feel and like

391

: 00:19:00

the, all the emotions that go along

with that and her struggle with God.

392

: 00:19:04

So a lot of that was very personal

to just to us and our family.

393

: 00:19:07

Cause I remember when Jessie.

394

: 00:19:09

You know, got so bad from the illness that

you have that she was in a wheelchair for

395

: 00:19:14

a season and we didn't know if she was

ever going to get out of it, you know?

396

: 00:19:18

And so there is that, but then

there's also, I think the way Ethan

397

: 00:19:22

Hawke directed the movie for me.

398

: 00:19:27

And I've heard interviews where he

talked about, you know, where, when

399

: 00:19:30

his daughter Maya brought this to

him as an idea for a movie, he's

400

: 00:19:34

like, but she didn't do anything.

401

: 00:19:37

She, she died young and she wrote books

or she wrote, you know, short stories.

402

: 00:19:43

And.

403

: 00:19:44

So they're looking at her, her life,

and that's when they got the, he got the

404

: 00:19:48

idea, well, Maya is at the age she was

that Flannery O'Connor was when she began

405

: 00:19:55

her writing journey as a professional,

and when she was diagnosed with lupus.

406

: 00:20:00

And so this is the season, that's

the season of life that we want to

407

: 00:20:02

make the movie about, when she was

first trying to get established.

408

: 00:20:06

And and when they decided that that's

the season they were going to do, he also

409

: 00:20:11

decided we can weave in these, these short

stories to tell the larger story, because

410

: 00:20:17

a lot of these short stories reflected

her relationship with her mother or other

411

: 00:20:22

people that she knew in her community who

dealt with a multitude of sins, right?

412

: 00:20:27

Racism being one of the

most predominant ones.

413

: 00:20:30

But yeah, so the way he, he did

that and went back and forth.

414

: 00:20:34

To me, it was just super powerful

because, I mean, the one scene will set

415

: 00:20:40

you up, and there was enough comedy that

kind of weaved in, into the stories.

416

: 00:20:45

I'm laughing and then I'm horrified at

something, you know, it's something that

417

: 00:20:49

was said or or done And so yeah, it was

a it was a roller coaster for me So that

418

: 00:20:54

was my kind of emotional response the

first time like I said the credits are

419

: 00:20:58

rolling and I just said buy that movie

420

: 00:21:01

Jerome: So I had a few Responses

emotional and creative at the same time.

421

: 00:21:07

As I mentioned, I did go to Catholic

school and I don't remember the name.

422

: 00:21:11

Flannery O'Connor is familiar to

me, but I think I may have only

423

: 00:21:15

come across her name in college.

424

: 00:21:17

I don't think they ever

talked about Flannery O'Connor

425

: 00:21:20

when I was in high school.

426

: 00:21:22

And I took a lot of like, you know,

classes in, in high school where I had,

427

: 00:21:26

I took a Shakespeare class when I was in

high school as an elective, you know, so

428

: 00:21:31

there were writers that, that my school

pushed, Flannery wasn't one of them but

429

: 00:21:37

I I agree, I think the, for it being his

fifth feature, This was one of the better

430

: 00:21:44

directed films I've seen in a while.

431

: 00:21:46

And not just camera choices.

432

: 00:21:48

But I mean, just, I mean, the performance

he gets out of his actors is amazing.

433

: 00:21:54

Yeah, Laura

434

: 00:21:55

Jessie: Linney.

435

: 00:21:56

Like, oh.

436

: 00:21:58

Yeah, she's awesome.

437

: 00:21:59

Is that even her?

438

: 00:22:00

Jerome: Yeah, she was,

she was really good.

439

: 00:22:03

I heard some of the criticism

because I, I dug deep on this one.

440

: 00:22:07

There was some criticism.

441

: 00:22:08

One guy said, I am from the South.

442

: 00:22:11

And I didn't buy the accents.

443

: 00:22:13

And I was like, huh?

444

: 00:22:14

Well, I wouldn't know because

I'm not from the South.

445

: 00:22:16

It sounded Southern to me.

446

: 00:22:17

But when I listened to Ethan tell

on one of his many interviews that I

447

: 00:22:22

watched, I He said that Laura and Maya,

but mostly Laura, did an amazing job

448

: 00:22:28

of in character or, not in character,

but when she went from character to

449

: 00:22:33

character, sometimes she's playing

Regina, sometimes she's playing one

450

: 00:22:36

of the people in the short stories

um, she would change her dialect from,

451

: 00:22:40

like, well to do South and poor South,

because they're two different things.

452

: 00:22:46

Yeah.

453

: 00:22:47

I immediately thought, well,

maybe this guy that said he didn't

454

: 00:22:49

buy the accents is because she

was changing them all the time.

455

: 00:22:52

Most of the time, that's not a good thing.

456

: 00:22:55

You know, when people talk about

Kevin Costner and Robin Hood.

457

: 00:22:57

Look, his English accent

comes and goes, you know?

458

: 00:23:00

Same with Princess Leia.

459

: 00:23:01

Yeah, well, and then this one,

there's a reason why it came and went.

460

: 00:23:06

Yeah, yeah.

461

: 00:23:08

She played a different character.

462

: 00:23:09

It was from a different part of the South.

463

: 00:23:11

Jessie: And maybe this guy whose criticism

was that her accent wasn't good enough.

464

: 00:23:17

Didn't think much more deeply about

the movie than that and was just wrong.

465

: 00:23:22

Maybe that I agree It was just wrong

466

: 00:23:24

Chris: and I agree with what

you said because I see where

467

: 00:23:26

Jerome: this episode is gonna

go Well, I find Laura Linney's

468

: 00:23:31

like hey, I'm gonna throw away

the first four pages of my notes

469

: 00:23:35

Jessie: I mean, I'm not like a total

fangirl where I think it was perfect.

470

: 00:23:38

I actually don't want things to be

perfect really Anything that's too

471

: 00:23:43

perfect kind of rubs me the wrong

way because it's not like real life.

472

: 00:23:48

Jerome: Except for Unforgiven.

473

: 00:23:49

You can't get much more

perfect than Unforgiven.

474

: 00:23:51

Jessie: I don't know.

475

: 00:23:52

But but yeah, I don't know.

476

: 00:23:53

Sometimes reading other people's

opinions for me isn't helpful because

477

: 00:23:57

then I'm absorbing their perception.

478

: 00:24:00

Sure.

479

: 00:24:00

Jessie: And I just need it to be, I just

need it to be what it was, the way I

480

: 00:24:03

experienced it, the feelings that I felt.

481

: 00:24:06

And all of those things that

may or may not be perfect

482

: 00:24:10

depending on who you talk to.

483

: 00:24:12

Chris: I was, I was going to

mention the, the, the accents again.

484

: 00:24:15

So that guy's criticism and I,

I might've read the same article

485

: 00:24:18

or maybe I read someone else's

criticism about the accents.

486

: 00:24:21

And I think I, I agree with what you said.

487

: 00:24:24

Like She didn't have the same

accent throughout the movie

488

: 00:24:29

because of what she was doing.

489

: 00:24:30

She was playing different characters.

490

: 00:24:31

Yeah, absolutely.

491

: 00:24:31

And it's not the same as my criticism

for Bonnie and Clyde's southern accent.

492

: 00:24:37

I mean, Bonnie's southern

accent was horrible.

493

: 00:24:41

I thought it was horrible in that movie.

494

: 00:24:44

Are we Wildcat?

495

: 00:24:47

No, because the accents were way worse.

496

: 00:24:49

The acting was far better in Wildcat.

497

: 00:24:51

Jessie: But is it even a

possibility that she parodied?

498

: 00:24:55

Yeah.

499

: 00:25:00

If you think about those different

clips and what they showed to do

500

: 00:25:04

the, to over accent or just parody.

501

: 00:25:08

Jerome: All right.

502

: 00:25:08

So so no, I had a lot of thoughts

and, and you know, like I said, the

503

: 00:25:11

accidents wasn't even one of my thoughts.

504

: 00:25:13

I just heard that later.

505

: 00:25:14

Jessie: Well, if Laura Linney

would give us an interview, we

506

: 00:25:16

would be able to just ask her.

507

: 00:25:18

Jerome: Yeah.

508

: 00:25:18

Yes.

509

: 00:25:19

Jessie: Hello.

510

: 00:25:19

Jerome: We could.

511

: 00:25:20

Ethan's listening so he can hook that up.

512

: 00:25:23

Jessie: Oh yeah.

513

: 00:25:23

Ethan, call Laura.

514

: 00:25:25

Have her connect with us.

515

: 00:25:27

Okay, back to you, Jer.

516

: 00:25:28

Jerome: Okay, so Again, I thought

the direction was great and I

517

: 00:25:31

thought the acting was great.

518

: 00:25:32

There were so many times I know I know

every actor wants to be their own person

519

: 00:25:37

and not be compared to other people But

I have to say it's hard for me to not

520

: 00:25:41

acknowledge that there were several times.

521

: 00:25:43

I saw Uma Thurman's face

She just got oh my god.

522

: 00:25:46

There's so many times.

523

: 00:25:47

I'm just like man.

524

: 00:25:47

She looks just like

her mother right there.

525

: 00:25:49

But But but she was fantastic.

526

: 00:25:52

Chris: She was really good.

527

: 00:25:53

I'm gonna say it right now.

528

: 00:25:54

I, I think she should be at

least nominated for Best Actress.

529

: 00:25:59

Jerome: See, and, and here's the thing.

530

: 00:26:00

So we talk about, you talked

about censorship, right?

531

: 00:26:02

Chris: But she's such a

new face to Hollywood.

532

: 00:26:05

But her parents aren't.

533

: 00:26:07

Jerome: But, but that doesn't matter.

534

: 00:26:08

There's been new people.

535

: 00:26:10

I mean, look at the acting nominations.

536

: 00:26:12

Just the nominations.

537

: 00:26:13

Not just who won.

538

: 00:26:15

Just look at the nominations

from the last five years.

539

: 00:26:17

That's true.

540

: 00:26:18

Remember the dude from Sound of

Metal, the supporting actor guy.

541

: 00:26:21

Like, like there's, there's

so many, if Hollywood loves

542

: 00:26:25

anything, it's new faces now.

543

: 00:26:26

It wasn't always like

that, but they love it now.

544

: 00:26:29

But I think if there's, if you talk

about censorship or blacklisting,

545

: 00:26:33

you saw the kind of treatment Passion

of the Christ got from the academy.

546

: 00:26:36

You know, I wonder if this is

going to have the same problem.

547

: 00:26:41

Chris: It might, and it's funny because I

feel like In trying to discuss this with

548

: 00:26:47

certain people, I found, like, if there,

if there's a wall because of the roots in

549

: 00:26:54

Catholicism, it's hard to break through.

550

: 00:26:56

Sure.

551

: 00:26:57

You know, and that just is what it is.

552

: 00:26:59

But if someone actually watches the movie

and, and discerns it for themselves,

553

: 00:27:05

because from, like, like, someone

might even hear, oh, she was a racist.

554

: 00:27:11

You know what I mean?

555

: 00:27:11

In a, in a critic.

556

: 00:27:13

That didn't even Watch the movie or

read her books, but when you, when you

557

: 00:27:18

read them or when you watch the movie

about them, you come to realize her,

558

: 00:27:23

like anything that was said that was

racist is because of her pushback against

559

: 00:27:28

the racist culture that she lived in

and was trying to put it in people's

560

: 00:27:32

faces, trying to get them to that.

561

: 00:27:35

I don't know.

562

: 00:27:36

That's the way I got

563

: 00:27:37

Jerome: more to say on that,

but we'll get to it later.

564

: 00:27:40

But but no, I just I remember thinking.

565

: 00:27:42

When I first, when it movie first

starts, I loved the opening.

566

: 00:27:46

We're going to get to the beats in a

second, but when it immediately went into

567

: 00:27:50

another one of her stories, it took me a

second to figure out what was going on.

568

: 00:27:55

And I, I remember having the same feeling

I had the first time I saw Memento, which

569

: 00:28:00

was Christopher Nolan's breakthrough.

570

: 00:28:02

You know, for one of his first

movies, if not first movie,

571

: 00:28:05

where everything is in reverse

chronology, and it's going backwards.

572

: 00:28:09

So in the first couple scenes, you're

like, okay, okay, I got it now.

573

: 00:28:11

I got it.

574

: 00:28:12

I got it.

575

: 00:28:12

I was lost for like a second there,

but I get what's going on now.

576

: 00:28:16

That was, I remember having that,

that sort of reaction to this movie.

577

: 00:28:20

I was like, what the

578

: 00:28:21

fuck?

579

: 00:28:21

Jerome: Oh,

580

: 00:28:22

Jessie: okay.

581

: 00:28:22

I get it.

582

: 00:28:23

I

583

: 00:28:23

Jerome: get it.

584

: 00:28:23

I get it.

585

: 00:28:24

Jessie: All right.

586

: 00:28:24

I did have to explain.

587

: 00:28:26

The movie to Chris.

588

: 00:28:26

Yeah, there was a point where I,

I was, I, we paused it and I'm

589

: 00:28:30

like, wait, what's going on here?

590

: 00:28:31

Yeah.

591

: 00:28:31

It was after, it was after the opening

scene, after we were introduced to her,

592

: 00:28:35

then we went to a story and then I had to

say, okay, honey, she has mommy issues.

593

: 00:28:40

Laura Linney also plays her mom.

594

: 00:28:42

But I mean, I thought they

595

: 00:28:45

Jerome: made it kind of obvious when she

saw the guy with one arm in the train

596

: 00:28:49

station and then it immediately cuts to

the story and Steve Zahn only has one arm.

597

: 00:28:53

To me at that moment, I was like, Oh

I see, she sees something and she's

598

: 00:28:57

writing in her head what she's seeing.

599

: 00:29:00

But okay,

600

: 00:29:00

Chris: alright.

601

: 00:29:01

So.

602

: 00:29:01

Log me.

603

: 00:29:03

Wildcat.

604

: 00:29:03

Follows the life of writer Flattery

O'Connor while she was struggling

605

: 00:29:07

to publish her first novel.

606

: 00:29:09

Jerome: Okay, so, notes on this.

607

: 00:29:13

Another thing that I felt

when I was watching this.

608

: 00:29:15

Very few biopics, if you want

to call this that do this right.

609

: 00:29:21

Ethan did it right.

610

: 00:29:23

Here's how most people get it wrong.

611

: 00:29:25

They do this from birth to death

shit, where you see somebody's entire

612

: 00:29:30

life, and, you know, 40 percent

of it is not necessary at all.

613

: 00:29:36

Maybe even more.

614

: 00:29:37

As a screenwriter, I was tasked with

adapting somebody's book, who asked

615

: 00:29:42

me to adapt into screenplay form

a book he wrote about his mother.

616

: 00:29:47

Okay.

617

: 00:29:48

This book was about 50 chapters long.

618

: 00:29:52

And I wrote a screenplay that focused

on 15 chapters right in the middle.

619

: 00:29:58

I realized that at the beginning and end

of this this guy's book, there was a lot

620

: 00:30:03

of like where his mother came from and

how she became, you know, who she was.

621

: 00:30:09

And then at the end, the last several

chapters, I want to say like 10,

622

: 00:30:13

15 chapters or so was how, when

she got to the States and how she

623

: 00:30:16

became a citizen and had kids and he

was one of them and all that stuff.

624

: 00:30:20

But the middle 15 chapters.

625

: 00:30:22

Was her escape from communist

Czechoslovakia alone.

626

: 00:30:26

Because her husband

was out of the country.

627

: 00:30:28

And I'm like, that's your story, man.

628

: 00:30:30

That's the story.

629

: 00:30:31

So I wrote the screenplay with just that.

630

: 00:30:34

Ethan does something similar here.

631

: 00:30:36

When you said that he didn't think

there was much to make a movie about.

632

: 00:30:39

Until he focused on that few

years where she was around

633

: 00:30:43

the same age that Maya is now.

634

: 00:30:45

Where she was struggling to

get that first book published.

635

: 00:30:48

That was his hook.

636

: 00:30:49

I'm gonna do just about that.

637

: 00:30:50

We don't see much about where she's from

and much about where she ends up you know

638

: 00:30:55

except for an epilogue on the screen, but

639

: 00:31:00

Chris: I'm sorry.

640

: 00:31:00

I was just gonna say and one of the

cool ways about storytelling is that

641

: 00:31:04

you kind of get the idea that She

didn't want to be home So, like, that

642

: 00:31:10

tells you a little bit about her past.

643

: 00:31:12

Like, she, she went to New York, she went

to Iowa and then went to New York because

644

: 00:31:16

she was trying to become somebody, right?

645

: 00:31:19

Yes.

646

: 00:31:19

And then, so her whole act of

coming home was, to her, yeah, to

647

: 00:31:25

her it was like a setback, like,

I'm going backwards, you know?

648

: 00:31:28

Well,

649

: 00:31:28

Jerome: from, from what I understand

it wasn't supposed to be permanent.

650

: 00:31:31

She didn't know she had lupus yet.

651

: 00:31:33

Chris: Yeah.

652

: 00:31:33

You

653

: 00:31:33

Jerome: know.

654

: 00:31:34

She thought, I'm sick right now.

655

: 00:31:36

I'm going to go home, get better, let mom

take care of me, and then I'll be back.

656

: 00:31:39

She even tells Cal at

the train, I'll be back.

657

: 00:31:41

I'll be back.

658

: 00:31:41

I'm coming back.

659

: 00:31:42

Cal.

660

: 00:31:43

Cal.

661

: 00:31:44

So all right.

662

: 00:31:45

So I got a few more

notes on the beats here.

663

: 00:31:47

We do follow the Blake Snyder's

Save the Cat beats, and just

664

: 00:31:51

about any film we use these tools,

right, to structure the script.

665

: 00:31:55

Now.

666

: 00:31:56

It's important to note, again,

that's why I put this down here,

667

: 00:31:59

that a lot of people in Hollywood

sort of rail against Blake Snyder.

668

: 00:32:02

They think that this cookie cutter,

every script is written the same,

669

: 00:32:06

it's not original, and blah blah blah.

670

: 00:32:09

But, it's not that this idea, this

ideology is there to, to be cookie cutter.

671

: 00:32:16

It just gives you a foundation, right?

672

: 00:32:19

Again, my brother and I have gone

through years now of doing this.

673

: 00:32:22

We stopped clock watching a while ago,

although we still mentioned the minutes.

674

: 00:32:25

I'll still give you a minute page, a

minute slash page of when these beats

675

: 00:32:29

hit just to, you know, so, you know, but

the most important thing is that we have

676

: 00:32:33

these beats and that they come in order.

677

: 00:32:35

And we already talked about the, you

know, the Coen brothers, for example, a

678

: 00:32:38

perfect example of guys that can write

screenplays that deviate from the rules.

679

: 00:32:42

Remember, they're,

they're tools, not rules.

680

: 00:32:44

I shouldn't say rules.

681

: 00:32:45

But when the beats are important,

they're there and they're identifiable.

682

: 00:32:50

And although this seems like a unique way

of shooting this film, you're going to

683

: 00:32:54

find that the beats are all still there.

684

: 00:32:56

Are you all right over there?

685

: 00:32:58

Sorry.

686

: 00:32:59

She handed me her glass.

687

: 00:33:00

Okay.

688

: 00:33:01

Now, I, I do not know Ethan Hawke's

personal feelings about Blake

689

: 00:33:06

Snyder or the Save the Cat ideology.

690

: 00:33:08

I don't.

691

: 00:33:09

Jessie: I hope it's good or

he won't come on the show.

692

: 00:33:11

Jerome: But I think I think this is

personal opinion, of course, I don't

693

: 00:33:15

want you two to kick the crap out of

me after this, but when you look at

694

: 00:33:19

such mixed reviews and, you know, 50

percent on, you know, Metacritic and

695

: 00:33:25

Rotten Tomatoes, you start to think

that there's people that weren't,

696

: 00:33:29

that, that just aren't, that maybe

they had trouble following it, right?

697

: 00:33:32

I don't think it's that difficult.

698

: 00:33:34

I think the beats are all still there.

699

: 00:33:35

I still think it's a,

a, a compelling film.

700

: 00:33:38

But somebody like like Mom might hate

the first half hour of this movie.

701

: 00:33:42

You know what I mean?

702

: 00:33:43

Until she, until, I mean just try

to get Mom to watch Pulp Fiction.

703

: 00:33:46

Same thing.

704

: 00:33:47

She's just like, I don't get it.

705

: 00:33:49

He just got shot.

706

: 00:33:49

Now he's there?

707

: 00:33:50

You know what I mean?

708

: 00:33:51

Like, so, you know I don't know if,

I think mom would enjoy this film,

709

: 00:33:55

but I think it would just take her

some time to get warmed up to it.

710

: 00:33:58

So here's the, here's the part where you

guys might fight me on this a little bit.

711

: 00:34:02

As much as I love the movie, I think

my biggest issue, and again, this

712

: 00:34:09

doesn't make it a bad movie, but

there's not much Character growth,

713

: 00:34:16

as far as she's the same person at

the end that she is in the beginning.

714

: 00:34:21

She has a personal fight against

will, will God accept her writing?

715

: 00:34:26

But she doesn't change her writing

for everybody around her that's

716

: 00:34:30

telling her to change her writing.

717

: 00:34:32

The editor at the beginning says

you need to change your writing.

718

: 00:34:35

She's like, nope, this is how I am.

719

: 00:34:37

Her mom, why don't you write

stuff people will like?

720

: 00:34:39

Nope, this is how I am.

721

: 00:34:41

So she is as defiant as a writer

to everybody else in her life at

722

: 00:34:44

the beginning as she is in the end.

723

: 00:34:46

Right?

724

: 00:34:46

There is a different growth with her

when it comes to sort of accepting,

725

: 00:34:52

you know, because a lot of times in

the film she's praying to God about

726

: 00:34:55

You know, let me just write something

good or, you know the scene with the

727

: 00:34:58

priest, we're going to get to that later.

728

: 00:35:00

But, you know, there's a lot telling

there of she's worried that she's

729

: 00:35:04

disappointing God in her writing.

730

: 00:35:06

So we're going to get to all that.

731

: 00:35:07

But if anything, I didn't see what

we talk about a lot is emotional.

732

: 00:35:12

Doug of war, the push and pull that

we see, you know, we talk a lot of

733

: 00:35:16

the example, the best example I always

use is Thelma and Louise, who Thelma

734

: 00:35:20

is at the beginning of the movie to

where she is at the end of the film.

735

: 00:35:23

But it's not just, you know, flip

a switch and you're that person.

736

: 00:35:28

It's the constant back and forth,

one step forward, two steps back,

737

: 00:35:31

one step forward, two steps back.

738

: 00:35:33

Half of the scenes in Thelma and

Louise, she's alpha Thelma waving a

739

: 00:35:36

gun around being a tough The other

half, she's baby Thelma again.

740

: 00:35:40

She's getting ridiculed by Louise.

741

: 00:35:42

She's like a dog with a

tail between her legs.

742

: 00:35:44

And it's back and forth

and back and forth.

743

: 00:35:46

It's kind of like somebody going

uphill but with a yo yo in their hand.

744

: 00:35:50

So the yo yo is going up and down

but gradually, the person holding the

745

: 00:35:54

yo yo is getting to the end of their

journey, if that makes any sense.

746

: 00:35:58

So what I saw from Flannery is

that It was more of what we called

747

: 00:36:02

a flat arc in other films, right?

748

: 00:36:04

We talked about the flat arc where They

themselves don't change as a person But

749

: 00:36:10

their view of the world around them might

change And the world around them's view

750

: 00:36:13

of them might change But they are, again,

the perfect example of that has always

751

: 00:36:17

been Superman Superman doesn't change

at the end of any story He's the same

752

: 00:36:22

person he is at the beginning He's always

righteous, he's always good He doesn't

753

: 00:36:25

lie, he saves lives, he saves cats But!

754

: 00:36:29

But the world around him changes a lot.

755

: 00:36:32

And sometimes his view of the

world might change, but he himself

756

: 00:36:35

stays the same person with the same

morals and the same principles.

757

: 00:36:39

Hang on.

758

: 00:36:40

I can see you're dying.

759

: 00:36:42

Jessie's dying to say something.

760

: 00:36:42

I'm

761

: 00:36:43

Jessie: dying.

762

: 00:36:44

Keep going.

763

: 00:36:44

Okay.

764

: 00:36:44

Okay.

765

: 00:36:45

I'm listening.

766

: 00:36:46

I'm trying to still listen and not

just think about what I want to say.

767

: 00:36:48

Because that's always a hard thing

when you want to say something.

768

: 00:36:50

Right.

769

: 00:36:51

Right.

770

: 00:36:52

Jerome: So so although it wouldn't have

been I'm not going to rewrite anything.

771

: 00:36:56

I don't want to rewrite anything.

772

: 00:36:57

This isn't meant to be factually

accurate or inaccurate.

773

: 00:37:01

But there's more push and pull if,

let's just say it wasn't Flannery.

774

: 00:37:04

Let's say this was a movie about

a writer, just any old writer.

775

: 00:37:07

If there was more of that battle

where they try to appease others and

776

: 00:37:12

write what they want, what the others

tell them to write, but they hate it.

777

: 00:37:15

Like maybe the editor says,

you got to change this or that.

778

: 00:37:18

And then she's like, okay, I'll do this.

779

: 00:37:20

And then she hates it.

780

: 00:37:22

And she's battling that.

781

: 00:37:23

And she's got, it wants

to go back and change it.

782

: 00:37:25

If there was more back and

forth, you'll see more of growth.

783

: 00:37:28

But I think her, her battle with

God, I don't want to say battle with

784

: 00:37:33

God, her battle for God's approval,

along with her battle against

785

: 00:37:37

Lupus, are her two biggest battles.

786

: 00:37:40

I don't see that she battles

the world view of her at all.

787

: 00:37:46

I really don't.

788

: 00:37:47

You know what I, you know what I mean?

789

: 00:37:48

So that's what I think makes it even

more of a spiritual movie, because

790

: 00:37:53

it's more about, It's like God is

the best supporting actor, right?

791

: 00:37:57

Like God's like the main supporting

role because it seems like that

792

: 00:38:02

to me is where the story is.

793

: 00:38:04

It's her seeking approval from God,

not really seeking approval from

794

: 00:38:08

her mother or Duchess or her editor.

795

: 00:38:13

You know what I mean?

796

: 00:38:14

If anything, she rolls

her eyes at those people.

797

: 00:38:17

All right, go ahead, Jessie.

798

: 00:38:18

Fire away.

799

: 00:38:20

Jessie: Ah, so I did see that part

differently because I see her right

800

: 00:38:28

from the get go, wanting to impress Cal,

wanting him to see her for who she truly

801

: 00:38:35

was as more than just a great writer

because clearly he's an intellectual,

802

: 00:38:38

he values writers, he knows that

she's good, he sees something in her.

803

: 00:38:43

Well, you see that in the way she's

looking for him to impress her.

804

: 00:38:48

I see that there's more to

her and to accept her writing.

805

: 00:38:52

You see this expectation when

she's standing in the room

806

: 00:38:56

presenting her writing to the

other writers in that writers club.

807

: 00:39:00

And then I see it.

808

: 00:39:02

I see her wanting the world's

approval, wanting her mother's

809

: 00:39:06

approval, and just being cynical when

she's met with her mom's inability

810

: 00:39:11

to understand what she's doing.

811

: 00:39:14

And so it's like, instead of just

like whining and crying about

812

: 00:39:18

it, she has kind of like a dry,

witty sense of humor about that.

813

: 00:39:22

And the fact that her aunt doesn't get

her, and then she is, she's looking for

814

: 00:39:26

God, she's looking to everyone else.

815

: 00:39:28

That scene at the end.

816

: 00:39:30

When her mom comes in and says,

Oh, look at that beautiful window.

817

: 00:39:34

Aren't you so glad that that's

what you get to look out

818

: 00:39:36

and see when you're writing?

819

: 00:39:39

And she stops and she turns with

all of the energy she can muster

820

: 00:39:44

and creates a sanctuary for herself.

821

: 00:39:47

That wall that she creates, that to

me, Was her victory over winning Cal's

822

: 00:39:54

approval, that room full of writer's

approval, that publisher's approval, her

823

: 00:39:59

mother's approval, and God's approval.

824

: 00:40:01

She literally said, if it's

just me and the typewriter.

825

: 00:40:05

And I create this wall, which is almost

kind of like a wall of icons, like a wall

826

: 00:40:10

where she creates like this monastery with

pictures of things that she cares about.

827

: 00:40:15

And there were some icons.

828

: 00:40:16

Yeah, in a space that she is just

cut off from the rest of the world.

829

: 00:40:21

To me, that's her finally saying,

I've overcome the need to please

830

: 00:40:25

all of you people and to have

all of you people understand me.

831

: 00:40:29

I understand me.

832

: 00:40:31

And I know what I'm doing here.

833

: 00:40:33

I'm going to write this fucking book.

834

: 00:40:35

Like that to me, like I saw.

835

: 00:40:37

So here's an interesting thing.

836

: 00:40:41

Introverts have You will see character

development in an introvert in

837

: 00:40:48

a very different way than you'll

see it in an extrovert in a story.

838

: 00:40:54

And I don't know if you have to

be an introvert to get that, or if

839

: 00:40:57

you just have to be really quiet

and pay really close attention.

840

: 00:41:00

Because the struggles.

841

: 00:41:02

That an introvert goes through they don't

happen as publicly they happen internally.

842

: 00:41:08

You'll see it in in her eyes You'll see

it in the tone of her voice and the way

843

: 00:41:13

her Her voice is constricted when she

responds or just in that dead dry sense

844

: 00:41:18

of humor where she's like I'm just gonna

turn everything off and just answer

845

: 00:41:21

you with just Humor because you don't

friggin get it and there's no point

846

: 00:41:28

Jerome: so if I can get a

word in here go ahead go

847

: 00:41:30

Jessie: ahead I mean, that's just I mean,

that's just off the cuff some of the

848

: 00:41:33

things I was thinking sure and none of

849

: 00:41:34

Jerome: that is none of that is wrong But

here would be my response and all of the

850

: 00:41:39

seeking of approval that you mentioned

Cal her mother the editor Everybody

851

: 00:41:43

does she ever change her writing?

852

: 00:41:46

Jessie: Well, no, because

that's the problem.

853

: 00:41:47

That's her problem.

854

: 00:41:49

She can't change her writing

because that's the truest

855

: 00:41:52

thing that is a part of her.

856

: 00:41:54

But just because you know that

doesn't mean you're okay with it.

857

: 00:42:01

Jerome: I think

858

: 00:42:01

Jessie: she knows it, but she doesn't.

859

: 00:42:03

And she knows like, but she's

still struggling with how to

860

: 00:42:07

still fully be that without, and

861

: 00:42:10

Chris: that was her big

question throughout the film.

862

: 00:42:12

And like, I guess throughout her life,

can scandalous art still glorify God?

863

: 00:42:18

Sure.

864

: 00:42:18

You know, and that's, and that's

something she was wrestling with

865

: 00:42:21

and it was a spiritual wrestling.

866

: 00:42:23

Jerome: That's where I think the,

that's where I said, I think the

867

: 00:42:26

approval she's seeking is God.

868

: 00:42:28

Yeah.

869

: 00:42:28

All your examples are right.

870

: 00:42:29

Sure.

871

: 00:42:30

She has a a, definitely a, a, a, I don't

want to use the word desperate, but I

872

: 00:42:35

would think maybe almost a desperate

need to improve to impress Cal.

873

: 00:42:39

For sure.

874

: 00:42:39

She

875

: 00:42:40

Jessie: has the same need we all have

to be accepted by the people we respect.

876

: 00:42:45

And by the right, but that's,

877

: 00:42:46

Jerome: but that's exactly my point.

878

: 00:42:48

Those of us, there are the rest of

us, or I don't say the rest of us,

879

: 00:42:51

but a lot of humanity would try

to change to make other people.

880

: 00:42:57

Happy with us, right?

881

: 00:42:59

And that's where you see in a

lot of dramas, the emotional tug

882

: 00:43:02

of war that I'm talking about

where people change for others.

883

: 00:43:06

And then at the end, they realize I

didn't need to change for anybody.

884

: 00:43:08

They need to accept me for who I am.

885

: 00:43:10

She already accepted her own

writing from the get, I think.

886

: 00:43:15

But did she?

887

: 00:43:17

I think she did.

888

: 00:43:17

She didn't ever change.

889

: 00:43:18

She didn't change anything for anybody.

890

: 00:43:20

Jessie: But I don't think that that

showed that she didn't, like, I think she

891

: 00:43:24

was uncomfortable with the writing too.

892

: 00:43:26

I think that's what scared

the shit out of her.

893

: 00:43:28

Jerome: Ah, see, I disagree.

894

: 00:43:29

That's interesting.

895

: 00:43:30

I think that that was her sanctuary.

896

: 00:43:32

You mentioned a physical

sanctuary at the end.

897

: 00:43:34

I think her emotional

sanctuary was in her writing.

898

: 00:43:37

Every time she was faced with something

immediately, we cut to one of the

899

: 00:43:40

short stories that she had written in

her head, you know written, but we're

900

: 00:43:44

seeing it play out in her thoughts.

901

: 00:43:46

Like that was almost like

her defense mechanism.

902

: 00:43:48

What my mom and my aunt are annoying.

903

: 00:43:51

Here's a story.

904

: 00:43:52

And she puts them in it.

905

: 00:43:53

You know what I mean?

906

: 00:43:53

Like, anytime she saw something, I felt

her defense was writing a story about it.

907

: 00:43:59

She was almost like

the: 1950

908

: 00:44:03

I, I, I'm, I'm not,

909

: 00:44:05

I don't, what?

910

: 00:44:05

Oh, dear.

911

: 00:44:12

Jerome: It's great.

912

: 00:44:12

I love it when you know, that's

what's so great about film.

913

: 00:44:15

Is that two people can watch

the same movie and pull

914

: 00:44:17

something different from it.

915

: 00:44:18

Chris: So, I did get the feeling at

the last scene that Jessie alluded to,

916

: 00:44:22

like, where she recreated her room so

that she had this writing sanctuary.

917

: 00:44:28

Well, the very last scene, I believe,

was her writing, and then the

918

: 00:44:33

peacock feathers pop up behind her.

919

: 00:44:35

Yes, absolutely.

920

: 00:44:35

And it was this moment of, like,

freedom that she experienced, that she

921

: 00:44:42

hadn't experienced until that point.

922

: 00:44:44

So, to me, you know, I mean, Even if

it was more of a spiritual arc, I mean

923

: 00:44:51

there was an arc there because she

was wrestling with God and so, yeah.

924

: 00:44:56

Well,

925

: 00:44:56

Jerome: again, that's where I think that

the priest scene is the most important.

926

: 00:44:59

Well, we'll get there.

927

: 00:45:00

Yeah, the priest

928

: 00:45:01

Chris: scene.

929

: 00:45:02

God, so that, let's get there

because Yeah, we'll get there.

930

: 00:45:05

Okay, so I hope I can get through

this because I literally cried

931

: 00:45:08

both times I watched that scene.

932

: 00:45:10

Jerome: Okay, so, okay,

opening I'm a crier.

933

: 00:45:15

You're just like your mother.

934

: 00:45:16

You know what?

935

: 00:45:17

I feel real heartless

936

: 00:45:18

Jessie: sometimes because

I'm sitting there going, wow,

937

: 00:45:20

this is really interesting.

938

: 00:45:21

And I look over and he's

going, he's shaking.

939

: 00:45:23

And I'm like, what kind

of Neanderthal am I?

940

: 00:45:25

That you're the

941

: 00:45:26

Jerome: heartless barbarian.

942

: 00:45:28

You're the Mike Wiegand in your marriage.

943

: 00:45:30

And Chris is the Sioux.

944

: 00:45:31

Yeah.

945

: 00:45:31

Okay.

946

: 00:45:32

Jessie: All you emotional Wiegands.

947

: 00:45:34

I mean, you're good for us.

948

: 00:45:35

You're good for us stoics.

949

: 00:45:36

But but sometimes it's

a little bit like, what?

950

: 00:45:39

Go, go clean yourself up.

951

: 00:45:42

Jerome: Okay, so alright, opening image.

952

: 00:45:44

Here's I'm sorry, I forgot this.

953

: 00:45:46

Okay, we have The beat.

954

: 00:45:48

Okay.

955

: 00:45:49

Opening image.

956

: 00:45:49

The cold open is a trailer for a

fictional movie called Star Drake

957

: 00:45:53

that didn't ever really exist but

it was based on one of Flannery's

958

: 00:45:56

short stories, The Comforts of Home.

959

: 00:45:58

And then it goes black and we get we

get a passage from Flannery herself

960

: 00:46:02

and the quote is, I'm always irritated

by people who imply that writing

961

: 00:46:06

fiction is an escape from reality.

962

: 00:46:08

It is a plunge into reality.

963

: 00:46:10

End quote.

964

: 00:46:11

Once the real opening starts, we

see the images It's taken from the

965

: 00:46:14

short story, A Good Man is Hard to

Find, where an escaped convict, known

966

: 00:46:17

in the short story as the misfit,

terrorizes a family that's on vacation.

967

: 00:46:21

This is intercut with the introduction

of our protagonist, Flannery

968

: 00:46:24

O'Connor, as she writes the scenes.

969

: 00:46:26

This sets the tone for the film that

we're going to see from here on out,

970

: 00:46:29

where you see what she is writing,

like in real time as it's happening.

971

: 00:46:33

For us that, for us the audience, that's

the exercise is, is to figure out when

972

: 00:46:37

she's living and when she's writing.

973

: 00:46:39

Exciting incident.

974

: 00:46:42

There really isn't one

for an inciting incident.

975

: 00:46:44

My, and, and that's kind of my point.

976

: 00:46:46

We'll go back.

977

: 00:46:47

The point I made about the arc, you're

going to see in these, these are, there's

978

: 00:46:51

a lot of story beats, not this would be a

character beat that I don't think exists.

979

: 00:46:56

So.

980

: 00:46:57

Instead of my four point push, I'm

only going to have a two point push

981

: 00:47:00

because normally there's four points.

982

: 00:47:03

The inciting incident would be

the first hint that her before

983

: 00:47:06

world is about to change.

984

: 00:47:08

We know she feels sick.

985

: 00:47:09

She doesn't yet know why.

986

: 00:47:12

We can assume the illness.

987

: 00:47:14

is an inciting incident, but we're

already in the middle of that story.

988

: 00:47:17

She's already going to the train station.

989

: 00:47:19

I mean, when we meet her, she's

already got her bags packed, right?

990

: 00:47:21

She's already on her way home.

991

: 00:47:24

We never see a debate in this situation.

992

: 00:47:26

We never see that, that character

debate after the inciting incident.

993

: 00:47:29

When we meet her, she's already

on her way to the train station.

994

: 00:47:32

She's gonna stop first at her

editor's, publisher's place.

995

: 00:47:35

Which means that in addition to lacking an

inciting incident, we're lacking a debate.

996

: 00:47:39

A theme stated at about the seven

minute mark while meeting with John

997

: 00:47:42

Selby, the editor and publisher

of her upcoming book, Wise Blood.

998

: 00:47:46

He tells her, quote, Sometimes

I feel you're trying to

999

: 00:47:49

stick pins in your readers.

: 1000

00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,970

I don't think you need to make them

suffer in order to introduce them

: 1001

00:47:54,970 --> 00:47:57,120

to the unusual way your mind works.

: 1002

00:47:57,450 --> 00:48:00,280

It feels a little like you're

trying to pick a fight with your

: 1003

00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,820

readers when all they ever did was

open the front cover of your book.

: 1004

00:48:04,210 --> 00:48:04,740

End quote.

: 1005

00:48:05,885 --> 00:48:07,605

Might be my favorite

line of the whole movie.

: 1006

00:48:08,875 --> 00:48:11,765

And it comes seven minutes in and

right off the bat, I'm like, I

: 1007

00:48:11,775 --> 00:48:12,745

think I'm going to like this movie.

: 1008

00:48:13,045 --> 00:48:14,575

Like right off the bat, I'm

like, yeah, this is going to

: 1009

00:48:14,575 --> 00:48:15,985

be good with writing like that.

: 1010

00:48:16,005 --> 00:48:17,095

I love dialogue like that.

: 1011

00:48:17,595 --> 00:48:21,925

So while I feel that Flannery might

lack that emotional tug of war

: 1012

00:48:21,925 --> 00:48:25,715

necessary for her to, to learn that

character arc I was talking about.

: 1013

00:48:26,015 --> 00:48:28,045

There is certainly a theme here.

: 1014

00:48:28,405 --> 00:48:29,415

That's going to be flashed.

: 1015

00:48:29,785 --> 00:48:33,755

For us, the audience throughout the

film, her angst and her fear, almost

: 1016

00:48:33,755 --> 00:48:38,275

her fear of like eternal damnation if

she offends God and her writing that's

: 1017

00:48:38,275 --> 00:48:43,275

the recipe for the readers of her

stories that they're going to have to

: 1018

00:48:43,275 --> 00:48:44,805

go along on this experience with her.

: 1019

00:48:44,905 --> 00:48:45,665

You know what I mean?

: 1020

00:48:45,935 --> 00:48:49,405

Jessie mentioned when she was reading

some of the stories, she was appalled

: 1021

00:48:49,415 --> 00:48:50,725

and like, I can't read this out loud.

: 1022

00:48:50,755 --> 00:48:51,293

You know what I mean?

: 1023

00:48:51,293 --> 00:48:51,745

I can't say this.

: 1024

00:48:51,745 --> 00:48:54,075

I can't say these words out loud.

: 1025

00:48:54,075 --> 00:48:54,145

I

: 1026

00:48:54,145 --> 00:48:55,755

Jessie: can't do the accent either.

: 1027

00:48:55,795 --> 00:48:56,555

So there's that.

: 1028

00:48:56,565 --> 00:48:58,295

But well, I think Ethan.

: 1029

00:48:58,685 --> 00:49:01,175

Jerome: I think Ethan Hawke said

that in one of the interviews,

: 1030

00:49:01,175 --> 00:49:04,085

was that whenever he reads it, he

hears the southern accent from her.

: 1031

00:49:04,585 --> 00:49:05,385

Well, and that quote

: 1032

00:49:05,725 --> 00:49:08,111

Chris: you just said from

the from the publisher.

: 1033

00:49:09,631 --> 00:49:14,881

It's because of that quote that

it helps me understand even why

: 1034

00:49:15,331 --> 00:49:18,111

there's mixed reviews for the movie.

: 1035

00:49:18,871 --> 00:49:21,371

Yeah, because some people watch

this movie and were offended.

: 1036

00:49:21,481 --> 00:49:22,041

They just,

: 1037

00:49:22,091 --> 00:49:26,031

Jerome: well, I mean, not

even, but not even offended.

: 1038

00:49:26,111 --> 00:49:29,281

There's people that watched the movie

that were just like, or they wrestled with

: 1039

00:49:29,291 --> 00:49:30,481

it and didn't know what to do with it.

: 1040

00:49:30,581 --> 00:49:30,851

Yeah.

: 1041

00:49:30,851 --> 00:49:32,411

Just like, I don't know.

: 1042

00:49:32,411 --> 00:49:33,931

I can't follow it or whatever.

: 1043

00:49:33,931 --> 00:49:35,371

Or it's, I don't know.

: 1044

00:49:35,481 --> 00:49:36,051

But it's interesting.

: 1045

00:49:36,061 --> 00:49:36,261

She

: 1046

00:49:36,371 --> 00:49:38,491

Jessie: memorialized a culture.

: 1047

00:49:39,256 --> 00:49:44,246

And a way of life and people that if

she hadn't memorialized them in her

: 1048

00:49:44,246 --> 00:49:46,126

writing like that, that would be lost.

: 1049

00:49:46,576 --> 00:49:47,816

And we shouldn't lose that.

: 1050

00:49:47,856 --> 00:49:52,436

We shouldn't lose the knowledge

of this, this like niche of the

: 1051

00:49:52,436 --> 00:49:55,116

population of a place, a real place.

: 1052

00:49:55,126 --> 00:49:55,786

Chris: In a real time.

: 1053

00:49:55,836 --> 00:49:56,366

In a real

: 1054

00:49:56,366 --> 00:50:01,216

Jessie: time with real ideas and

real beliefs and a real culture

: 1055

00:50:01,216 --> 00:50:04,166

that was set up around these rules.

: 1056

00:50:04,236 --> 00:50:04,556

Jerome: Yeah.

: 1057

00:50:04,796 --> 00:50:05,016

Jessie: Yeah.

: 1058

00:50:05,086 --> 00:50:07,506

And we can't forget that

or we'll do it again.

: 1059

00:50:08,666 --> 00:50:10,186

Jerome: Catalyst at 15 minutes.

: 1060

00:50:10,196 --> 00:50:12,346

She's at the train station

to go home to live with mom.

: 1061

00:50:12,346 --> 00:50:13,596

We meet the what'd I put?

: 1062

00:50:13,646 --> 00:50:16,866

Oh, we meet a real life poet,

the real life poet and flattery

: 1063

00:50:16,866 --> 00:50:18,126

is creative writing teacher.

: 1064

00:50:18,126 --> 00:50:18,816

Robert Lowell.

: 1065

00:50:18,826 --> 00:50:19,876

His nickname is Cal.

: 1066

00:50:20,286 --> 00:50:24,666

While there are hints of attraction

between the two of them, we don't know

: 1067

00:50:24,666 --> 00:50:26,346

much about the relationship at this time.

: 1068

00:50:26,436 --> 00:50:30,651

At this point, we don't know much about

them, nor does it affect Flannery's

: 1069

00:50:30,681 --> 00:50:32,621

decision to move back home to mom.

: 1070

00:50:32,961 --> 00:50:36,901

I think that she's she was, again,

sick, but doesn't know why or

: 1071

00:50:36,911 --> 00:50:38,061

doesn't know what she's sick with.

: 1072

00:50:38,491 --> 00:50:39,481

We don't see any of this.

: 1073

00:50:39,511 --> 00:50:41,171

We don't see any of this decision making.

: 1074

00:50:41,591 --> 00:50:44,911

We talked about in Fargo, how

we start in media res, right?

: 1075

00:50:44,911 --> 00:50:47,522

The Latin term for starting in

the middle of, or whatever it

: 1076

00:50:47,532 --> 00:50:49,242

translates to, you know what I mean?

: 1077

00:50:49,242 --> 00:50:52,412

It means when the movie begins,

the story had already started.

: 1078

00:50:52,612 --> 00:50:52,832

Right.

: 1079

00:50:52,842 --> 00:50:54,322

We're kind of trying to catch up.

: 1080

00:50:54,432 --> 00:50:57,252

Like, we don't see her get

sick for the first time.

: 1081

00:50:57,452 --> 00:51:00,862

We don't see her make the decision, well

maybe I should leave New York and go home

: 1082

00:51:01,032 --> 00:51:02,482

for a little while just until I'm better.

: 1083

00:51:02,562 --> 00:51:03,522

We don't see none of that.

: 1084

00:51:03,902 --> 00:51:04,292

Right?

: 1085

00:51:04,712 --> 00:51:05,722

We just know it's happening.

: 1086

00:51:06,102 --> 00:51:09,082

So it's hard for me to dictate

character development on the journey

: 1087

00:51:09,082 --> 00:51:13,072

of spiritual goals when the protagonist

has already predetermined things.

: 1088

00:51:13,362 --> 00:51:16,842

That didn't happen thematically on screen,

in front of us, you know what I mean?

: 1089

00:51:16,942 --> 00:51:17,742

So we're playing You just

: 1090

00:51:17,742 --> 00:51:18,342

said a lot of big words.

: 1091

00:51:18,812 --> 00:51:20,082

Jerome: We're trying to play catch up.

: 1092

00:51:21,212 --> 00:51:21,612

Sorry.

: 1093

00:51:21,672 --> 00:51:22,122

Sounds like

: 1094

00:51:22,122 --> 00:51:24,477

Jerome: somebody needs another

glass of ménage à trois.

: 1095

00:51:24,477 --> 00:51:25,472

Jessie: You sound real smart.

: 1096

00:51:25,472 --> 00:51:26,232

Chris: She moved on to whiskey.

: 1097

00:51:26,312 --> 00:51:28,192

Jessie: You sound real

smart about movies, Jer.

: 1098

00:51:28,262 --> 00:51:28,542

Jerome: Okay.

: 1099

00:51:28,542 --> 00:51:28,682

That's

: 1100

00:51:28,682 --> 00:51:29,172

Jessie: awesome.

: 1101

00:51:29,262 --> 00:51:33,271

Jerome: I can't tell if she's

being condescending right now.

: 1102

00:51:33,272 --> 00:51:36,221

Okay.

: 1103

00:51:36,221 --> 00:51:36,561

Okay.

: 1104

00:51:36,561 --> 00:51:36,921

So

: 1105

00:51:37,331 --> 00:51:40,241

Jessie: I just, I want to keep

tracking, but like, wait, what?

: 1106

00:51:40,761 --> 00:51:41,061

Jerome: Okay.

: 1107

00:51:41,771 --> 00:51:42,141

Okay.

: 1108

00:51:42,201 --> 00:51:43,981

So Now you made me lose my place here.

: 1109

00:51:43,991 --> 00:51:44,351

Okay.

: 1110

00:51:44,591 --> 00:51:46,051

Jessie: Oh, I need to not compliment you?

: 1111

00:51:46,051 --> 00:51:46,466

Sorry, sorry.

: 1112

00:51:46,466 --> 00:51:47,021

Jerome: No, no, no.

: 1113

00:51:47,021 --> 00:51:47,371

I love it.

: 1114

00:51:47,631 --> 00:51:48,121

Keep it coming.

: 1115

00:51:48,121 --> 00:51:48,591

Keep it coming.

: 1116

00:51:48,591 --> 00:51:51,171

I'll always, I'll always look for

my place to hear a compliment.

: 1117

00:51:51,631 --> 00:51:52,011

Okay.

: 1118

00:51:52,291 --> 00:51:56,761

So, Ethan, I feel like he decided

instead to give us a glimpse of

: 1119

00:51:56,761 --> 00:51:59,461

how she comes up with these stories

and writes them in her head.

: 1120

00:51:59,701 --> 00:52:02,521

And that is evident in that train

station sequence like we talked about.

: 1121

00:52:02,531 --> 00:52:03,621

She sees a guy with one arm.

: 1122

00:52:04,081 --> 00:52:08,361

And then immediately, boom, we're

catapulted into this story where Steve

: 1123

00:52:08,361 --> 00:52:12,291

Zahn's walking in a field and he's

got one arm and as an audience, you're

: 1124

00:52:12,291 --> 00:52:14,361

like, What the fuck just happened?

: 1125

00:52:14,361 --> 00:52:15,391

Like, where are we now?

: 1126

00:52:15,401 --> 00:52:16,161

Yeah, you're like, isn't

: 1127

00:52:16,351 --> 00:52:18,861

Jessie: he the dad in

Diary of a Wimpy Kid?

: 1128

00:52:18,961 --> 00:52:19,721

That's what I thought.

: 1129

00:52:20,731 --> 00:52:21,261

Jerome: Wait a minute!

: 1130

00:52:21,446 --> 00:52:23,706

Jessie: Wait a minute, he's been in a

billion things, but also I think he's

: 1131

00:52:23,966 --> 00:52:24,916

his dad in Diary of a Wicked Witch.

: 1132

00:52:24,916 --> 00:52:25,936

Wasn't he in Reality

: 1133

00:52:25,936 --> 00:52:26,726

Jerome: Bites with

: 1134

00:52:26,946 --> 00:52:27,566

Jessie: Ethan Hawke too?

: 1135

00:52:28,636 --> 00:52:30,776

Oh, oh, can we do that movie someday?

: 1136

00:52:30,777 --> 00:52:34,516

Because that, my friend, still holds up.

: 1137

00:52:34,546 --> 00:52:37,296

Because we just watched

that, like, two months ago.

: 1138

00:52:37,296 --> 00:52:39,736

Because that was my favorite

movie in high school.

: 1139

00:52:40,066 --> 00:52:42,196

Another reason why I was

going to marry Ethan Hawke.

: 1140

00:52:42,516 --> 00:52:45,006

So, you know, sorry Ethan, I'm

sorry it didn't work out for us.

: 1141

00:52:45,306 --> 00:52:46,036

But, anyway.

: 1142

00:52:46,046 --> 00:52:46,536

Not yet.

: 1143

00:52:46,576 --> 00:52:47,556

That's a great movie.

: 1144

00:52:47,826 --> 00:52:48,156

Hey!

: 1145

00:52:48,306 --> 00:52:49,316

I got my man.

: 1146

00:52:49,746 --> 00:52:50,106

Anyway.

: 1147

00:52:50,611 --> 00:52:55,701

That is a great movie, and we just

watched it, and I gotta say, Holds up.

: 1148

00:52:55,951 --> 00:52:57,391

Okay, although,

: 1149

00:52:57,461 --> 00:53:00,751

Jerome: although we do go off on

tangents and rants on this show,

: 1150

00:53:00,801 --> 00:53:01,821

Jessie: This is not the time?

: 1151

00:53:01,831 --> 00:53:02,561

Is that what you're trying to say?

: 1152

00:53:02,571 --> 00:53:02,711

We're,

: 1153

00:53:02,891 --> 00:53:06,391

Jerome: we're, I, I foresee we're gonna

be here a while tonight, but alright.

: 1154

00:53:06,691 --> 00:53:07,141

Well, you

: 1155

00:53:07,171 --> 00:53:09,871

Jessie: invited a third person,

that's another perspective.

: 1156

00:53:09,872 --> 00:53:11,721

Come on, man, what do you

think is gonna happen?

: 1157

00:53:11,722 --> 00:53:12,111

Absolutely,

: 1158

00:53:12,111 --> 00:53:14,031

Jerome: absolutely, that means

that this show will be three

: 1159

00:53:14,031 --> 00:53:15,461

times as long as it normally is.

: 1160

00:53:15,461 --> 00:53:15,851

Alright,

: 1161

00:53:15,851 --> 00:53:16,852

Jessie: people buckle up.

: 1162

00:53:17,657 --> 00:53:20,067

Jerome: Alright, so anyway,

so yeah, Steve Zahn's part.

: 1163

00:53:20,077 --> 00:53:23,517

So, boom, we're in the middle of the short

story, The Life You Saved May Be Your Own.

: 1164

00:53:24,027 --> 00:53:26,047

He plays a tramp, Mr.

: 1165

00:53:26,067 --> 00:53:30,027

Shifflett, and he's forced to marry

the dim witted Lucy Nell, and he

: 1166

00:53:30,027 --> 00:53:31,737

later abandons her at a coffee shop.

: 1167

00:53:32,227 --> 00:53:32,917

Break into two.

: 1168

00:53:32,917 --> 00:53:36,467

At 23 minutes, Flannery arrives home,

and we're introduced to Regina, her

: 1169

00:53:36,467 --> 00:53:38,517

mother, and her aunt Kitty, named Duchess.

: 1170

00:53:38,907 --> 00:53:39,767

Nicknamed Duchess.

: 1171

00:53:40,547 --> 00:53:44,587

So the overt xenophobic nature

of racism that surrounds them

: 1172

00:53:44,587 --> 00:53:46,177

is hard for Flannery to take.

: 1173

00:53:46,517 --> 00:53:49,017

There's many scenes where she's

like rolling her eyes at them.

: 1174

00:53:49,397 --> 00:53:51,547

We're going to talk more a little

bit about that later, but I

: 1175

00:53:51,567 --> 00:53:54,757

think usually around this time

we're introduced to the B story.

: 1176

00:53:55,097 --> 00:54:00,237

And while her mother, Regina, has all

the markings and makings to be a B story

: 1177

00:54:00,237 --> 00:54:06,007

character, since I truly struggled to

find that spiritual journey it was hard

: 1178

00:54:06,007 --> 00:54:07,607

for me to label Regina the B Story.

: 1179

00:54:08,027 --> 00:54:12,117

So because, okay, so maybe Jessie, I don't

know how much she's listened to our shows.

: 1180

00:54:12,367 --> 00:54:16,097

The B Story is normally introduced

at the beginning of Act 2, maybe

: 1181

00:54:16,097 --> 00:54:17,187

a half hour into your film.

: 1182

00:54:17,467 --> 00:54:21,007

And it's the person that drives your

character to their spiritual goal.

: 1183

00:54:21,537 --> 00:54:24,257

Again, I don't know if Regina does that.

: 1184

00:54:24,967 --> 00:54:31,622

I think she In addition to her faith and

the very pivotal scene with the priest.

: 1185

00:54:32,112 --> 00:54:35,722

I think those drive her to her

spiritual goal, if anything.

: 1186

00:54:35,732 --> 00:54:37,912

Regina's a player, don't get me wrong.

: 1187

00:54:38,152 --> 00:54:39,622

But I don't think she's the B story.

: 1188

00:54:39,642 --> 00:54:40,662

She's not the Obi Wan.

: 1189

00:54:40,952 --> 00:54:42,002

I don't think she's Obi Wan.

: 1190

00:54:42,802 --> 00:54:45,242

Anyway, Jessie, Jessie, just to let

you know, that's what we call the

: 1191

00:54:45,242 --> 00:54:46,432

B story on the show is the Obi Wan.

: 1192

00:54:46,432 --> 00:54:46,812

Okay,

: 1193

00:54:46,842 --> 00:54:49,142

Jessie: so then think about, so

when you say that, here are some

: 1194

00:54:49,142 --> 00:54:50,722

key moments that come up in my head.

: 1195

00:54:51,032 --> 00:54:52,292

Jerome: Okay, gotcha.

: 1196

00:54:52,542 --> 00:54:53,192

Jessie: Regina.

: 1197

00:54:53,872 --> 00:54:56,392

Picks her up, tells her she's

going to take her to the doctor.

: 1198

00:54:56,772 --> 00:54:59,812

So there's this whole other element

of the story we haven't talked about,

: 1199

00:54:59,812 --> 00:55:04,142

which is her refusal to accept that she

has the disease that killed her father.

: 1200

00:55:04,582 --> 00:55:04,882

Chris: Okay.

: 1201

00:55:05,202 --> 00:55:08,492

Jessie: And there's some really,

like, key little things that are

: 1202

00:55:08,502 --> 00:55:13,002

specific about the fact that she

has the disease her father had.

: 1203

00:55:13,272 --> 00:55:15,412

Her mother watched her father die from it.

: 1204

00:55:15,462 --> 00:55:17,212

She watched her father die from it.

: 1205

00:55:17,622 --> 00:55:20,562

Like, think of the scene where she's

putting on her father's jacket.

: 1206

00:55:21,497 --> 00:55:23,777

And then putting on his

crutches for the first time.

: 1207

00:55:23,777 --> 00:55:24,977

Absolutely, but that's

not, but that's not Regina.

: 1208

00:55:25,017 --> 00:55:26,067

I know, but okay.

: 1209

00:55:26,317 --> 00:55:31,597

So her, her mom is there and she wants to

say she's just doing this because of the

: 1210

00:55:31,597 --> 00:55:33,377

fact that her dad was sick or whatever.

: 1211

00:55:33,787 --> 00:55:37,827

But she, she's there, she gets

the doctor and she refuses it.

: 1212

00:55:38,517 --> 00:55:44,007

And then you have this, these other key

moments where she's there Oh my gosh.

: 1213

00:55:44,007 --> 00:55:44,837

I'm sorry.

: 1214

00:55:44,937 --> 00:55:45,777

I've had alcohol.

: 1215

00:55:45,787 --> 00:55:46,057

Well, I

: 1216

00:55:46,067 --> 00:55:46,977

Jerome: don't want you to ruin.

: 1217

00:55:46,977 --> 00:55:47,757

I don't want you to ruin.

: 1218

00:55:47,757 --> 00:55:49,827

I do have one beat that

I'm going to get to later.

: 1219

00:55:50,067 --> 00:55:51,477

Where I actually wrote on here.

: 1220

00:55:51,707 --> 00:55:55,217

There is something that she does

near the break in the three.

: 1221

00:55:55,477 --> 00:55:58,407

That's the closest we have to

driving her to her spiritual goal.

: 1222

00:55:58,747 --> 00:56:02,347

And so I am willing to concede that

she is the best we got for a B story.

: 1223

00:56:02,697 --> 00:56:05,067

Jessie: Yeah, cause she,

it's, it's just so subtle.

: 1224

00:56:05,077 --> 00:56:09,407

She'll say something, or she'll make

a face before she leaves the room.

: 1225

00:56:09,417 --> 00:56:10,587

Like, she'll say one line.

: 1226

00:56:10,847 --> 00:56:11,757

That's the problem.

: 1227

00:56:11,797 --> 00:56:13,267

It's like, it's so subtle.

: 1228

00:56:13,267 --> 00:56:15,697

If you really think about it,

most of the time there's conflict.

: 1229

00:56:15,997 --> 00:56:18,267

Jerome: But Flannery, but Flannery

doesn't change because of these things.

: 1230

00:56:19,457 --> 00:56:20,107

You know what I mean?

: 1231

00:56:20,237 --> 00:56:23,277

It'd be one thing if these

actions by Regina forced her

: 1232

00:56:23,277 --> 00:56:24,717

to do something different.

: 1233

00:56:25,327 --> 00:56:28,757

Again, we call it in writing, we call it

wrong way goals where you're trying to

: 1234

00:56:28,767 --> 00:56:30,587

do one thing and it's not the right way.

: 1235

00:56:30,587 --> 00:56:33,437

It's not going to get you to your

spiritual goal, but she doesn't do

: 1236

00:56:33,437 --> 00:56:34,757

any of that, but there is one to

: 1237

00:56:34,757 --> 00:56:35,697

Jessie: not be sick.

: 1238

00:56:36,277 --> 00:56:37,507

She's trying to not die.

: 1239

00:56:39,377 --> 00:56:42,157

So going up to the room until

she falls down the stairs.

: 1240

00:56:43,137 --> 00:56:46,317

Continuing to struggle up those

stairs until she finally falls and

: 1241

00:56:46,317 --> 00:56:47,667

then she just says, okay, fine.

: 1242

00:56:47,667 --> 00:56:48,967

I'm not going up these stairs anymore.

: 1243

00:56:49,127 --> 00:56:50,197

But that's not Regina.

: 1244

00:56:50,217 --> 00:56:51,317

That's Flannery.

: 1245

00:56:53,467 --> 00:56:56,627

Jerome: We're talking about what makes

Regina the B story, but but I got

: 1246

00:56:57,047 --> 00:57:02,657

Chris: I I guess you could you could say

that The whole movie most of the movie is

: 1247

00:57:02,667 --> 00:57:09,897

set Like the reality not the stories, but

the reality is set in her mom's home In

: 1248

00:57:09,897 --> 00:57:12,427

the space that her mom has provided her

: 1249

00:57:12,712 --> 00:57:14,182

Jerome: Okay, that, you're getting close.

: 1250

00:57:14,212 --> 00:57:14,392

Yeah.

: 1251

00:57:14,412 --> 00:57:15,252

So stop right there.

: 1252

00:57:15,322 --> 00:57:15,602

Okay.

: 1253

00:57:15,652 --> 00:57:16,642

Because you're, you're getting close.

: 1254

00:57:16,642 --> 00:57:16,662

I

: 1255

00:57:16,742 --> 00:57:18,802

Jessie: feel like there's,

she does play this role.

: 1256

00:57:18,802 --> 00:57:20,182

I can't really articulate it.

: 1257

00:57:20,462 --> 00:57:22,402

But, you so I'm So keep talking.

: 1258

00:57:22,642 --> 00:57:23,142

Okay, I'm

: 1259

00:57:23,142 --> 00:57:26,132

Jerome: gonna give you, I'm gonna give you

a good one near the end of the second act.

: 1260

00:57:26,322 --> 00:57:26,592

Chris: Okay.

: 1261

00:57:26,642 --> 00:57:27,012

Jerome: Okay.

: 1262

00:57:27,112 --> 00:57:27,682

Fun and games.

: 1263

00:57:27,682 --> 00:57:30,777

When her mother tells her That

she's taken her to the doctor.

: 1264

00:57:30,777 --> 00:57:32,837

She begins her, her mental escape.

: 1265

00:57:33,127 --> 00:57:35,697

Now she's writing the, the

story called Revelation.

: 1266

00:57:36,007 --> 00:57:40,027

This is where her characters herself and

her mother, as well as Duchess, are among

: 1267

00:57:40,027 --> 00:57:41,707

them in the doctor's office waiting area.

: 1268

00:57:41,917 --> 00:57:43,727

This might be my favorite of the stories.

: 1269

00:57:44,317 --> 00:57:44,977

Dude, I read that

: 1270

00:57:45,287 --> 00:57:45,777

Jessie: story.

: 1271

00:57:46,172 --> 00:57:47,102

You have to read it.

: 1272

00:57:47,112 --> 00:57:48,062

Did you read the original?

: 1273

00:57:48,072 --> 00:57:48,412

I haven't,

: 1274

00:57:48,472 --> 00:57:49,912

Jerome: I haven't read the original story.

: 1275

00:57:49,952 --> 00:57:50,682

Okay, so I

: 1276

00:57:50,692 --> 00:57:53,992

Jessie: read it to Chris because

of the movie and I'm telling

: 1277

00:57:53,992 --> 00:57:56,352

you it's, that is brilliant.

: 1278

00:57:57,002 --> 00:57:57,722

Jerome: Okay, okay.

: 1279

00:57:57,732 --> 00:58:01,222

So at one point I thought it

was funny and almost telling.

: 1280

00:58:02,272 --> 00:58:05,082

That we're going to

get to the title later.

: 1281

00:58:05,082 --> 00:58:07,892

I have stuff on that too, but

there's a part in that scene

: 1282

00:58:08,322 --> 00:58:11,352

where she hisses her answer.

: 1283

00:58:11,472 --> 00:58:11,792

Yeah.

: 1284

00:58:11,992 --> 00:58:14,932

Duchess it's not Duchess Duchess is

there, but she's playing a different

: 1285

00:58:14,932 --> 00:58:17,682

character, but she looks at her and

she goes, she asked you a question

: 1286

00:58:17,962 --> 00:58:20,142

and Flannery goes, I have ears.

: 1287

00:58:20,562 --> 00:58:24,072

She says I have ears, but she

says it like I can't hiss.

: 1288

00:58:25,742 --> 00:58:28,822

I thought that was not only was

that brilliant acting, but it was,

: 1289

00:58:29,007 --> 00:58:30,587

telling of her character, right?

: 1290

00:58:31,087 --> 00:58:32,017

I have ears.

: 1291

00:58:32,257 --> 00:58:32,647

Okay.

: 1292

00:58:32,877 --> 00:58:37,337

In this segment, Regina is playing

Ruby Turpin, a rather annoyingly racist

: 1293

00:58:37,337 --> 00:58:41,767

caricature of a Southern woman who is

given a choice by Jesus to be reincarnated

: 1294

00:58:41,807 --> 00:58:43,847

as a black woman or a white trash woman.

: 1295

00:58:44,472 --> 00:58:45,212

And she can't decide.

: 1296

00:58:45,892 --> 00:58:50,082

Jessie: Well, because, and I didn't catch

this in the movie until I read the story.

: 1297

00:58:50,412 --> 00:58:54,652

The other woman in the doctor's office,

who's sitting there with the little boy.

: 1298

00:58:55,172 --> 00:58:56,502

Oh, it's Justice Atrocious.

: 1299

00:58:56,532 --> 00:58:59,982

Yeah, she's the caricature

of this white trash woman.

: 1300

00:59:00,452 --> 00:59:00,592

Yeah.

: 1301

00:59:00,592 --> 00:59:04,287

And then these two Racist women who

have grown up with privilege their

: 1302

00:59:04,287 --> 00:59:08,187

whole life are having this discourse

about, you know, like how difficult

: 1303

00:59:08,207 --> 00:59:11,947

life is now that you can't get a Negro

to do any of the work that they're

: 1304

00:59:11,947 --> 00:59:13,337

supposed to be doing in their place.

: 1305

00:59:13,627 --> 00:59:18,157

And then you have this millennial sitting

next to her mom, who's so frustrated.

: 1306

00:59:18,817 --> 00:59:19,917

Jerome: Reading human development.

: 1307

00:59:19,927 --> 00:59:20,187

Yes.

: 1308

00:59:20,197 --> 00:59:21,007

Right, right.

: 1309

00:59:21,007 --> 00:59:24,707

Jessie: Who's so frustrated with

how backwoods her mother is, and

: 1310

00:59:24,707 --> 00:59:28,507

then the mother's so confused at

this ungrateful child because she

: 1311

00:59:28,507 --> 00:59:30,347

doesn't understand the youths today.

: 1312

00:59:30,717 --> 00:59:31,047

Chris: Right.

: 1313

00:59:31,077 --> 00:59:33,387

One of the things, I just want to

say one of the things about this

: 1314

00:59:33,387 --> 00:59:34,927

scene that I thought was brilliant.

: 1315

00:59:34,937 --> 00:59:39,737

So if you haven't seen it, or maybe you

haven't, if you haven't read it, like

: 1316

00:59:39,917 --> 00:59:45,177

the, the, the, the story is taking place

in the waiting room of a doctor's office.

: 1317

00:59:45,207 --> 00:59:45,567

Right.

: 1318

00:59:45,777 --> 00:59:46,607

And then.

: 1319

00:59:48,342 --> 00:59:49,512

at one point.

: 1320

00:59:49,662 --> 00:59:54,132

The in in the story, the

mom has a dream , right?

: 1321

00:59:54,132 --> 00:59:54,342

Yeah.

: 1322

00:59:54,402 --> 00:59:54,792

That's that.

: 1323

00:59:54,792 --> 00:59:57,102

The mom has a dream within the story.

: 1324

00:59:57,102 --> 00:59:57,162

Yeah.

: 1325

00:59:57,402 --> 01:00:00,642

So if you're following along,

you're in a story and then all of

: 1326

01:00:00,642 --> 01:00:01,507

a sudden you're in it's inception.

: 1327

01:00:01,542 --> 01:00:01,842

Yeah.

: 1328

01:00:01,842 --> 01:00:04,062

And then all of a sudden you're

in a dream that's in the story.

: 1329

01:00:04,182 --> 01:00:08,232

And then it snaps back to the

story again in the doctor's office.

: 1330

01:00:08,232 --> 01:00:11,652

Jerome: But, but I had to note real

quick before you continue, that she

: 1331

01:00:11,652 --> 01:00:13,032

has trouble making this decision.

: 1332

01:00:13,392 --> 01:00:14,827

She finally comes to, alright.

: 1333

01:00:15,812 --> 01:00:19,652

I'll be black as long as I

quote It's a clean black.

: 1334

01:00:19,732 --> 01:00:21,972

Yeah, and quote like what the fuck?

: 1335

01:00:23,462 --> 01:00:27,502

Jessie: Just like the way I

am now only black also makeup.

: 1336

01:00:27,762 --> 01:00:29,712

Can we talk about makeup for one second?

: 1337

01:00:29,732 --> 01:00:30,162

Chris: Oh, yeah,

: 1338

01:00:30,162 --> 01:00:32,962

Jessie: and the way they did

the makeup on Laura Linney to

: 1339

01:00:32,972 --> 01:00:35,232

give her this nose this nose.

: 1340

01:00:35,732 --> 01:00:37,112

Yeah So in the Story.

: 1341

01:00:37,502 --> 01:00:41,192

So in the story, it doesn't conclude

in the doctor's office in the original

: 1342

01:00:41,192 --> 01:00:46,532

writing of Flannery, it concludes

when she goes back home and she,

: 1343

01:00:46,622 --> 01:00:48,032

whatever, hus, I'm bad with names.

: 1344

01:00:48,032 --> 01:00:50,372

I'm so bad with names, but

her husband who was there with

: 1345

01:00:50,372 --> 01:00:51,752

the kick in the leg and the,

: 1346

01:00:51,812 --> 01:00:52,022

Chris: yeah,

: 1347

01:00:52,082 --> 01:00:52,622

Jessie: ulcer.

: 1348

01:00:52,772 --> 01:00:56,912

He goes into the house, she

goes out to feed the pigs.

: 1349

01:00:57,782 --> 01:01:04,712

When she gets out to feed the pigs, all of

the pigs are huddled around the queen pig.

: 1350

01:01:05,417 --> 01:01:10,387

And it's a very descriptive scene

where this queen pig is in the

: 1351

01:01:10,387 --> 01:01:13,897

corner of the pig's, you know, I

don't know, house, cage, whatever.

: 1352

01:01:14,277 --> 01:01:17,577

And all of the other pigs are

basically bowed down before it.

: 1353

01:01:17,847 --> 01:01:20,457

I mean, it's kind of the scene of

them worshipping this queen pig.

: 1354

01:01:20,747 --> 01:01:25,157

And that's when she has the vision

of all the people going to heaven.

: 1355

01:01:25,767 --> 01:01:31,557

And it's all the blacks and all of the

white trash and all of the the simple

: 1356

01:01:31,557 --> 01:01:33,777

minded and the invalids or whatever.

: 1357

01:01:34,027 --> 01:01:35,917

And she's just furious.

: 1358

01:01:36,247 --> 01:01:37,567

She's just furious.

: 1359

01:01:37,847 --> 01:01:42,267

And so when you see that scene of

her in there and then you look at

: 1360

01:01:42,267 --> 01:01:44,327

the way they did Laura Linney's nose,

: 1361

01:01:44,577 --> 01:01:44,787

Chris: it's

: 1362

01:01:44,787 --> 01:01:45,627

Jessie: a nod.

: 1363

01:01:46,007 --> 01:01:51,407

to the original writing where the woman is

actually the whole thing is she's the pig.

: 1364

01:01:52,037 --> 01:01:52,957

She's the pig.

: 1365

01:01:53,287 --> 01:01:55,067

And you're like, Oh my gosh.

: 1366

01:01:55,117 --> 01:01:59,867

And literally, can you see why people

were just like, radically offended?

: 1367

01:02:01,282 --> 01:02:02,752

Jerome: Lightsaber one coming out.

: 1368

01:02:02,872 --> 01:02:03,142

Ready?

: 1369

01:02:06,892 --> 01:02:11,102

Okay, at 37 minutes in, Duchess

tells her that she has lupus.

: 1370

01:02:11,512 --> 01:02:14,002

The same disease that killed her

father at a young age, and she's

: 1371

01:02:14,002 --> 01:02:15,892

forced to deal with that realization.

: 1372

01:02:16,262 --> 01:02:20,002

She could very well be living the

rest of her days in this house.

: 1373

01:02:20,472 --> 01:02:24,102

Two minutes later, at 39 minutes,

she gets a letter from the publisher

: 1374

01:02:24,162 --> 01:02:27,172

saying that They're ultimately

going to pass on Wise Blood.

: 1375

01:02:27,222 --> 01:02:30,902

Now we do know that in real life,

Wise Blood does get published,

: 1376

01:02:31,192 --> 01:02:33,502

but it was a different publisher

that ends up picking it up.

: 1377

01:02:34,102 --> 01:02:39,132

At this time, we go into flashback two

years prior, and show how she came to be

: 1378

01:02:39,152 --> 01:02:43,982

Cal's most noteworthy student and that

he obviously became infatuated with.

: 1379

01:02:44,462 --> 01:02:47,802

From what I understand, this

is the biggest departure

: 1380

01:02:47,802 --> 01:02:48,922

from reality in the film.

: 1381

01:02:49,362 --> 01:02:53,462

That for most of the film, it's as

accurate as you can get, but there is no

: 1382

01:02:54,022 --> 01:02:59,452

noted connection or relationship between

Robert Lowell and Flannery O'Connor.

: 1383

01:03:00,122 --> 01:03:04,692

Chris: I, I did read, or I did listen to

an interview where I forget who was, was

: 1384

01:03:04,692 --> 01:03:07,142

talking, but they were talking about that.

: 1385

01:03:07,232 --> 01:03:12,802

That's, that topic and apparently

in a letter, there's a scene in the

: 1386

01:03:12,802 --> 01:03:15,332

movie where he tells her, I love you.

: 1387

01:03:16,252 --> 01:03:17,492

Jerome: Well, he says it at the train

: 1388

01:03:17,492 --> 01:03:17,822

Chris: station.

: 1389

01:03:17,822 --> 01:03:19,322

Yeah, before they depart.

: 1390

01:03:19,752 --> 01:03:23,992

And there's no evidence that that

was actually said in person, but he

: 1391

01:03:23,992 --> 01:03:25,892

does write it in a letter to her.

: 1392

01:03:26,602 --> 01:03:29,542

Jerome: Yeah, but again, the way

I took it at the train station?

: 1393

01:03:30,297 --> 01:03:34,587

Was sort of a teacher student

inspiration kind of love.

: 1394

01:03:34,607 --> 01:03:35,717

I didn't take it as romantic.

: 1395

01:03:35,717 --> 01:03:35,897

Note to self,

: 1396

01:03:35,897 --> 01:03:38,987

your teacher is not

supposed to say, I love you.

: 1397

01:03:39,037 --> 01:03:39,837

Okay, back to you.

: 1398

01:03:41,027 --> 01:03:41,887

Jerome: Starting now?

: 1399

01:03:42,687 --> 01:03:42,977

Just in case

: 1400

01:03:42,977 --> 01:03:46,847

any youths are listening, your teacher

shouldn't tell you he loves you.

: 1401

01:03:46,987 --> 01:03:47,717

Okay, back to

: 1402

01:03:47,717 --> 01:03:47,867

Jessie: you.

: 1403

01:03:48,787 --> 01:03:50,337

Jerome: Okay, this took

a weird turn there.

: 1404

01:03:50,377 --> 01:03:50,787

All right, you

: 1405

01:03:50,847 --> 01:03:52,637

said it Okay

: 1406

01:03:53,417 --> 01:03:56,987

Jerome: In any case the subject

of her story that she reads aloud

: 1407

01:03:56,987 --> 01:04:03,457

in class is called Parker's back

And it's about a rather crass guy

: 1408

01:04:03,457 --> 01:04:08,777

named OE Parker Specifically Obadiah

Elijah Parker, which they have fun.

: 1409

01:04:08,797 --> 01:04:13,117

Isn't it a lay who a lay

who sorry Obadiah a lay who?

: 1410

01:04:13,117 --> 01:04:18,587

He gets a tattoo of Jesus on his

back to impress her I can say that

: 1411

01:04:18,617 --> 01:04:22,297

this is one of the stories that

is shown all the way to the end.

: 1412

01:04:22,297 --> 01:04:25,987

You mentioned how the revelation wasn't,

and there was another one, Steve Zahn's.

: 1413

01:04:26,267 --> 01:04:30,107

Steve Zahn's one his story

in, in the actual short story,

: 1414

01:04:30,107 --> 01:04:31,767

it goes on longer, right?

: 1415

01:04:32,087 --> 01:04:32,107

Yeah.

: 1416

01:04:32,117 --> 01:04:35,922

But this one, I believe, from

what I read, it, it, It goes all

: 1417

01:04:35,922 --> 01:04:37,262

the way to the end of the story.

: 1418

01:04:37,322 --> 01:04:41,082

Like, they kind of do a quick

version of beginning to end with

: 1419

01:04:41,082 --> 01:04:42,142

this one all the way through.

: 1420

01:04:42,552 --> 01:04:45,922

And we actually do get to see

Parker's remorse at the end.

: 1421

01:04:46,172 --> 01:04:49,342

And taking a beating from a broom?

: 1422

01:04:49,732 --> 01:04:52,632

On your freshly tattooed back?

: 1423

01:04:53,032 --> 01:04:56,062

Well in the image of that

are her whipping Jesus.

: 1424

01:04:56,122 --> 01:05:00,772

Yeah, and the blood coming down

like it's all like obviously To

: 1425

01:05:00,772 --> 01:05:01,471

Jessie: tell you the truth.

: 1426

01:05:01,492 --> 01:05:05,962

I read that story and I still don't get it

all the way I have ideas about it, but not

: 1427

01:05:05,962 --> 01:05:08,402

fully formed ones cuz it's it's out there

: 1428

01:05:09,357 --> 01:05:11,737

Jerome: There is an interview with

Ethan Hawke, one of the million that

: 1429

01:05:11,737 --> 01:05:13,257

I watched where he talks about it.

: 1430

01:05:13,257 --> 01:05:14,157

It's very interesting.

: 1431

01:05:14,177 --> 01:05:14,507

Yeah.

: 1432

01:05:14,517 --> 01:05:18,307

But it's yeah, it's kind of, for me

anyway, for anyone that's had tattoos,

: 1433

01:05:18,487 --> 01:05:20,147

that's a rough watch at the end.

: 1434

01:05:20,897 --> 01:05:23,287

I'm like, I'm like, dude, be mad at him.

: 1435

01:05:23,287 --> 01:05:24,477

Don't hit his back with that

: 1436

01:05:24,487 --> 01:05:24,797

Chris: broom.

: 1437

01:05:25,127 --> 01:05:26,417

He just got a tattoo.

: 1438

01:05:26,487 --> 01:05:29,607

Well, and it makes you kind

of sympathetic towards the guy

: 1439

01:05:29,807 --> 01:05:31,027

that got the tattoo, right?

: 1440

01:05:31,027 --> 01:05:31,096

Yeah.

: 1441

01:05:31,437 --> 01:05:31,967

Because he did

: 1442

01:05:32,047 --> 01:05:32,247

Jessie: it.

: 1443

01:05:32,417 --> 01:05:33,937

He did it thinking he was impressing

: 1444

01:05:33,937 --> 01:05:34,187

Jerome: her.

: 1445

01:05:34,217 --> 01:05:36,263

Chris: Yeah, and, you know, I He did

: 1446

01:05:36,263 --> 01:05:39,437

Jessie: it because he felt like he

had an encounter with God that he

: 1447

01:05:39,437 --> 01:05:42,907

needed to memorialize and thought

that that would gain her approval.

: 1448

01:05:43,157 --> 01:05:46,387

That story is about him gaining

her approval because he married

: 1449

01:05:46,387 --> 01:05:49,207

her but he really didn't

ever feel like she loved him.

: 1450

01:05:49,687 --> 01:05:51,977

And he loved her but he

couldn't understand why.

: 1451

01:05:52,247 --> 01:05:54,267

It's really sad and I don't get it.

: 1452

01:05:54,297 --> 01:05:55,417

I don't all the way get it.

: 1453

01:05:55,417 --> 01:05:56,677

I'm still thinking about it.

: 1454

01:05:56,937 --> 01:06:01,317

Jerome: I think part of the thing that

makes it sad is that she tells him.

: 1455

01:06:01,907 --> 01:06:03,497

That she doesn't like tattoos, right?

: 1456

01:06:03,557 --> 01:06:05,857

So he, he goes and gets this tattoo.

: 1457

01:06:06,096 --> 01:06:09,967

Yeah, she goes and gets, he goes and gets

this tattoo thinking, I'm seeking approval

: 1458

01:06:09,967 --> 01:06:12,387

and I got a big face of Jesus on my back.

: 1459

01:06:12,747 --> 01:06:14,697

And she couldn't be more appalled.

: 1460

01:06:14,877 --> 01:06:15,137

Right,

: 1461

01:06:15,137 --> 01:06:18,267

Jessie: but she tells him he doesn't,

she doesn't like tattoos from the

: 1462

01:06:18,277 --> 01:06:21,667

beginning, but then chooses him who

has a tattoo on every face of his body.

: 1463

01:06:21,667 --> 01:06:23,737

He's loaded with, yeah,

he's loaded with tattoos.

: 1464

01:06:23,747 --> 01:06:29,067

So in the story, he actually says

something about, she says she doesn't

: 1465

01:06:29,067 --> 01:06:30,846

like it, but I don't really believe.

: 1466

01:06:31,067 --> 01:06:32,846

That she knows her own mind, basically.

: 1467

01:06:32,897 --> 01:06:35,137

Because she says she doesn't

like things, but she does.

: 1468

01:06:35,837 --> 01:06:36,557

Do you know what I mean?

: 1469

01:06:36,917 --> 01:06:37,387

Yeah, yeah.

: 1470

01:06:37,397 --> 01:06:40,737

So yeah, so it is like, it's

a very interesting story.

: 1471

01:06:40,787 --> 01:06:43,747

I've read it a couple times now,

still don't get it all the way.

: 1472

01:06:43,777 --> 01:06:46,287

Jerome: I just noticed, by the way,

side point, it has nothing to do with

: 1473

01:06:46,317 --> 01:06:47,357

anything that we're talking about.

: 1474

01:06:47,657 --> 01:06:51,147

But in my notes, I just noticed

that my autocorrect changed Flannery

: 1475

01:06:51,147 --> 01:06:53,527

to Flanner just about every time.

: 1476

01:06:53,657 --> 01:06:54,107

Flanner.

: 1477

01:06:54,487 --> 01:06:55,107

Flanner.

: 1478

01:06:55,247 --> 01:06:57,851

Jessie: Just say Flanner O'Connor and

it'll always say it sounds the same.

: 1479

01:06:57,851 --> 01:06:58,387

Yeah, like, I'm

: 1480

01:06:58,387 --> 01:07:01,397

Jerome: looking at my notes and I'm like,

I did not write Flanner this many times.

: 1481

01:07:01,427 --> 01:07:02,897

But anyway, it must have

been the autocorrect.

: 1482

01:07:03,596 --> 01:07:03,907

All right.

: 1483

01:07:04,217 --> 01:07:05,107

Midpoint scene.

: 1484

01:07:05,377 --> 01:07:12,197

54 minutes in, Flanner stumbles across

Cal, and he invites her into a party

: 1485

01:07:12,197 --> 01:07:13,627

that she is reluctant to attend.

: 1486

01:07:13,627 --> 01:07:18,687

At one point, a tennis table opponent

suggests she should be less racist in her

: 1487

01:07:18,687 --> 01:07:21,147

writings, and she defends the language.

: 1488

01:07:21,417 --> 01:07:26,471

Moments later, she defends Catholicism

to a group of critiquing elites.

: 1489

01:07:26,471 --> 01:07:30,939

Particularly when Cal's, Love interest

writer, Elizabeth Hardwick suggests

: 1490

01:07:30,939 --> 01:07:32,609

the Eucharist is just a symbol.

: 1491

01:07:32,769 --> 01:07:35,979

She says, quote, well, if it's just

a symbol, then to hell with it.

: 1492

01:07:36,439 --> 01:07:36,869

End quote.

: 1493

01:07:37,429 --> 01:07:40,249

And then she doubles down with

what people don't understand

: 1494

01:07:40,729 --> 01:07:42,609

is how much religion costs.

: 1495

01:07:42,639 --> 01:07:43,839

They think it's easy.

: 1496

01:07:44,109 --> 01:07:47,038

They think it's an electric

blanket when really it's the cross.

: 1497

01:07:47,399 --> 01:07:47,769

End quote.

: 1498

01:07:48,809 --> 01:07:53,449

So normally, I know this movie is

littered with great lines of dialogue.

: 1499

01:07:53,999 --> 01:07:57,989

Normally the midpoint brings a

tangible goal and a false victory.

: 1500

01:07:58,599 --> 01:08:03,589

But since I'm having trouble finding

this character art for Flannery, I didn't

: 1501

01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:05,739

find a tangible goal or a false victory.

: 1502

01:08:06,099 --> 01:08:11,509

But Cal does speak highly of her

to Elizabeth, and to your point, if

: 1503

01:08:11,509 --> 01:08:15,239

that's some of the approval she's

seeking, that's a false victory.

: 1504

01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:16,219

Right?

: 1505

01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:18,948

That's a moment, yeah, that's

a moment of gain for her.

: 1506

01:08:18,948 --> 01:08:20,129

Yeah, cause she even said that

: 1507

01:08:20,129 --> 01:08:22,799

Chris: she's, she knew who

she was, she's read her book.

: 1508

01:08:23,169 --> 01:08:24,569

Or her books or whatever, yeah.

: 1509

01:08:24,649 --> 01:08:24,868

Yeah,

: 1510

01:08:24,868 --> 01:08:27,389

Jerome: so that's the

closest I could get to that.

: 1511

01:08:27,389 --> 01:08:28,099

So we're there.

: 1512

01:08:28,099 --> 01:08:30,499

So you're noticing that

we're still finding them.

: 1513

01:08:30,499 --> 01:08:31,049

They're there.

: 1514

01:08:31,549 --> 01:08:32,238

Just gotta find them.

: 1515

01:08:32,658 --> 01:08:33,818

Alright, bad guys closing in.

: 1516

01:08:33,828 --> 01:08:37,979

Back to reality with Mom Regina at church

and she mentally dives into the story

: 1517

01:08:37,988 --> 01:08:39,719

Everything That Rises Must Converge.

: 1518

01:08:40,089 --> 01:08:41,669

Another great story.

: 1519

01:08:41,689 --> 01:08:43,629

I like this one almost as

much as the Revelation one.

: 1520

01:08:43,879 --> 01:08:43,948

Right.

: 1521

01:08:45,144 --> 01:08:47,754

Now, correct me if I'm wrong,

I haven't read the short story.

: 1522

01:08:48,024 --> 01:08:50,404

It's a boy in the story, isn't it?

: 1523

01:08:50,533 --> 01:08:50,754

Yes.

: 1524

01:08:50,794 --> 01:08:52,203

Because she's dressed like a boy.

: 1525

01:08:52,214 --> 01:08:52,413

Oh, yeah,

: 1526

01:08:52,413 --> 01:08:52,794

Jessie: yeah.

: 1527

01:08:52,794 --> 01:08:55,464

It's a, it's a, it's a man

and his, and his mother.

: 1528

01:08:55,474 --> 01:08:56,464

It's an adult man.

: 1529

01:08:56,484 --> 01:08:59,834

And he's like in his early twenties,

so he just got back from college ish

: 1530

01:09:00,084 --> 01:09:04,243

trying to find his way, but he actually

says, I know I'm not that smart.

: 1531

01:09:04,424 --> 01:09:06,314

I know I really can't be on my own.

: 1532

01:09:06,453 --> 01:09:07,354

I live with my mother.

: 1533

01:09:07,363 --> 01:09:11,413

He resents it, but he literally needs

her care Because he's smart enough

: 1534

01:09:11,413 --> 01:09:15,264

to have graduated from college and

literally worthless to get a job and

: 1535

01:09:15,264 --> 01:09:19,844

make a living So he's living off of

the fact that his mom is like second

: 1536

01:09:19,844 --> 01:09:21,863

or third generation Plantation.

: 1537

01:09:22,334 --> 01:09:22,663

Jerome: Yeah,

: 1538

01:09:22,714 --> 01:09:24,924

Jessie: he hates it, but

he's living off of it.

: 1539

01:09:24,953 --> 01:09:25,863

So he has playing

: 1540

01:09:25,863 --> 01:09:26,389

Jerome: the part

: 1541

01:09:26,519 --> 01:09:29,448

Jessie: Well, yeah, she's like your great,

great grandfather, blah, blah, blah.

: 1542

01:09:29,759 --> 01:09:34,599

And so he remembers in the story going

to this great grandfather or somebody's

: 1543

01:09:34,599 --> 01:09:39,099

house and seeing this like, beautiful

plantation, but it's since broken

: 1544

01:09:39,099 --> 01:09:41,339

down because society has changed.

: 1545

01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:47,368

And so he literally, it's like,

it's that same situation as that

: 1546

01:09:47,368 --> 01:09:49,459

girl in the in the doctor's office.

: 1547

01:09:50,019 --> 01:09:50,309

Mm

: 1548

01:09:50,328 --> 01:09:50,979

Jessie: hmm.

: 1549

01:09:51,474 --> 01:09:53,004

He's living off of it.

: 1550

01:09:53,014 --> 01:09:58,394

So he hates himself and he hates his

mother and he hates the situation.

: 1551

01:09:58,504 --> 01:10:01,943

So he's full of self

loathing and everything else.

: 1552

01:10:02,443 --> 01:10:06,304

Jerome: But from a film point of view,

it's set up a lot like the train station.

: 1553

01:10:07,374 --> 01:10:08,974

She sees the guy with the one arm.

: 1554

01:10:08,994 --> 01:10:11,154

So now we're in that story here.

: 1555

01:10:11,184 --> 01:10:15,334

He see, she sees her mother wink at

the little white child in church.

: 1556

01:10:15,964 --> 01:10:16,274

And

: 1557

01:10:16,274 --> 01:10:20,294

Jerome: now here we are catapulted

onto the bus where she sees a little

: 1558

01:10:20,294 --> 01:10:22,154

black child and she winks at him.

: 1559

01:10:22,544 --> 01:10:25,974

And then she backhandedly

insults the boy and his mother by

: 1560

01:10:25,984 --> 01:10:27,744

offering him a shiny new penny.

: 1561

01:10:28,244 --> 01:10:29,954

And of course we know

what happens after that.

: 1562

01:10:29,964 --> 01:10:34,264

She gets physically assaulted

by the by the boy's mom.

: 1563

01:10:35,144 --> 01:10:38,954

Symbolic moment at one hour, one

minute in when we're back to real life.

: 1564

01:10:38,964 --> 01:10:40,224

Flannery pulls out.

: 1565

01:10:41,039 --> 01:10:42,209

This is the scene you were talking about.

: 1566

01:10:42,209 --> 01:10:45,979

She pulls out one of her father's coats

from the closet, smells it before putting

: 1567

01:10:45,979 --> 01:10:50,269

it on, and then she sees his crutches

in the closet, and she utilizes them.

: 1568

01:10:50,499 --> 01:10:51,209

Jessie: Okay, okay.

: 1569

01:10:51,209 --> 01:10:51,899

So, whoa, whoa, whoa.

: 1570

01:10:51,899 --> 01:10:52,549

So, back up.

: 1571

01:10:52,799 --> 01:10:58,109

So, right, back, back the truck up to

everything that rises must converge.

: 1572

01:10:58,419 --> 01:11:03,129

That story ends with, so he hates

himself, and he detests his mother,

: 1573

01:11:03,129 --> 01:11:08,939

and this, this whole reality that he's

living off of the money That funded

: 1574

01:11:08,939 --> 01:11:12,899

the thing that he now knows is wrong

and hates, then he watches his mother

: 1575

01:11:12,909 --> 01:11:17,869

patronize this woman by thinking her

child's adorable, you know what I mean?

: 1576

01:11:17,879 --> 01:11:20,729

And then, oh, give you a shiny little

penny, which apparently it was a thing

: 1577

01:11:20,739 --> 01:11:26,479

back then where rich white women would

just give black children a nickel.

: 1578

01:11:26,899 --> 01:11:27,949

And she didn't have a nickel.

: 1579

01:11:27,949 --> 01:11:29,219

So she pulled out a penny.

: 1580

01:11:29,219 --> 01:11:31,149

So it was even more patronizing

: 1581

01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:31,889

when

: 1582

01:11:31,889 --> 01:11:33,329

Jessie: the woman hits her.

: 1583

01:11:33,579 --> 01:11:34,759

She has a stroke.

: 1584

01:11:35,019 --> 01:11:38,469

So when she's wandering around in

that cemetery in the movie, and she's

: 1585

01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:42,329

like, tell, tell somebody to come

get me tell grandpa to come get me.

: 1586

01:11:42,559 --> 01:11:44,119

She literally had a stroke.

: 1587

01:11:44,119 --> 01:11:46,579

She has either a mental

breakdown or a stroke.

: 1588

01:11:46,919 --> 01:11:48,439

So she's cast back.

: 1589

01:11:48,679 --> 01:11:50,219

to the state of a child.

: 1590

01:11:50,769 --> 01:11:54,279

And so the story, that story,

Everything That Rises Must

: 1591

01:11:54,289 --> 01:12:00,119

Converge, which, side note, is being

read by Sawyer in the show Lost

: 1592

01:12:00,599 --> 01:12:00,809

Chris: at

: 1593

01:12:00,809 --> 01:12:01,489

Jessie: one point.

: 1594

01:12:01,719 --> 01:12:06,139

So anybody that's a Lost fan can

try to figure out why Sawyer was

: 1595

01:12:06,139 --> 01:12:09,739

reading Everything That Rises

Must Converge in the show Lost.

: 1596

01:12:09,818 --> 01:12:11,869

There's a whole other show for you.

: 1597

01:12:11,869 --> 01:12:11,979

That's a

: 1598

01:12:11,979 --> 01:12:12,749

Chris: rabbit trail.

: 1599

01:12:12,789 --> 01:12:13,479

Yeah.

: 1600

01:12:13,789 --> 01:12:14,239

Jessie: But.

: 1601

01:12:15,544 --> 01:12:17,774

For people like so think of that.

: 1602

01:12:17,784 --> 01:12:22,604

So that's how that story ends

with that man in the story,

: 1603

01:12:22,624 --> 01:12:24,084

which is played by Maya Hawk.

: 1604

01:12:24,193 --> 01:12:30,034

Being with his mother and crying and ask

calling out for help for her because now

: 1605

01:12:30,034 --> 01:12:33,924

she's had some mental breakdown or some

stroke and she's like a child right now

: 1606

01:12:33,954 --> 01:12:36,214

and he finally has compassion for her.

: 1607

01:12:37,589 --> 01:12:41,279

And then the next scene is Flannery

putting on her father's coat, accepting

: 1608

01:12:41,279 --> 01:12:43,649

her illness, trying out the crutches.

: 1609

01:12:44,149 --> 01:12:50,199

Chris: Well, and, and she's basically

stuck living off of her mother's wealth.

: 1610

01:12:50,459 --> 01:12:53,699

Jessie: She realizes her mom's going to

have to take care of her for the rest of

: 1611

01:12:53,699 --> 01:12:55,469

her life because she's not getting better.

: 1612

01:12:55,519 --> 01:12:58,449

She's going to be like her

dad, however that plays out.

: 1613

01:12:58,599 --> 01:13:01,559

Jerome: That's why I love the

very next shot is not just of

: 1614

01:13:01,568 --> 01:13:04,649

that, but it's almost like she's.

: 1615

01:13:06,239 --> 01:13:10,589

Not just accepting the illness, but sort

of like metaphorically accepting that she

: 1616

01:13:10,589 --> 01:13:14,709

is taking her father's role now, you know,

that's what I think the symbol symbolism

: 1617

01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:18,109

is with her taking the coat and smelling

the coat and putting the coat on and

: 1618

01:13:18,119 --> 01:13:20,119

using his crutches, you know what I mean?

: 1619

01:13:20,119 --> 01:13:20,559

Like

: 1620

01:13:20,599 --> 01:13:24,799

Jessie: if you're if you're a believer,

there's this thing about like finding

: 1621

01:13:24,809 --> 01:13:27,779

meaning and suffering and also redemption.

: 1622

01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:29,279

What is redemption about?

: 1623

01:13:29,559 --> 01:13:31,318

It's about taking something broken.

: 1624

01:13:31,318 --> 01:13:31,869

Yeah.

: 1625

01:13:32,254 --> 01:13:36,114

But by accepting it, and owning

it, and being fully present in it,

: 1626

01:13:36,354 --> 01:13:38,014

it can become something beautiful.

: 1627

01:13:39,193 --> 01:13:42,504

It's this weird paradox of thing

that, you know, people who don't

: 1628

01:13:42,514 --> 01:13:44,564

have hope don't really understand.

: 1629

01:13:44,904 --> 01:13:46,234

Because they're like, well, that's bad.

: 1630

01:13:46,234 --> 01:13:47,594

It's just all bad all the time.

: 1631

01:13:47,884 --> 01:13:50,943

But then people of faith are

like, yeah, it's bad, but man,

: 1632

01:13:51,344 --> 01:13:52,844

there's joy in this suffering.

: 1633

01:13:52,884 --> 01:13:54,594

And then everyone thinks

you're fucking crazy.

: 1634

01:13:55,134 --> 01:13:55,474

Jerome: Yeah.

: 1635

01:13:55,924 --> 01:13:56,334

Jessie: You know?

: 1636

01:13:56,374 --> 01:13:58,784

Jerome: Didn't they say

something like that in in 7?

: 1637

01:13:59,443 --> 01:14:02,244

Wasn't there a conversation between

Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman?

: 1638

01:14:02,994 --> 01:14:05,124

Where they talk about that

like, yeah, it's all fucked up.

: 1639

01:14:05,124 --> 01:14:08,254

We should all go live in a log

cabin, you know, and Brad Pitt's

: 1640

01:14:08,274 --> 01:14:09,904

like, well, that's Morgan Freeman.

: 1641

01:14:09,994 --> 01:14:13,284

He's like, you want it to be like

that to where it's all fucked up.

: 1642

01:14:13,304 --> 01:14:15,394

Let's just all go live

in a log cabin cabin.

: 1643

01:14:15,614 --> 01:14:16,814

But I don't agree with you.

: 1644

01:14:16,994 --> 01:14:18,814

It's worth fighting for,

you know what I mean?

: 1645

01:14:18,814 --> 01:14:20,024

And he goes on his speech.

: 1646

01:14:20,364 --> 01:14:20,784

All right, like

: 1647

01:14:20,784 --> 01:14:22,214

Jessie: there's a way

to find meaning here.

: 1648

01:14:22,244 --> 01:14:23,614

And I'm not even sure what it is.

: 1649

01:14:23,644 --> 01:14:27,884

But I believe the faith is that

there's going to be meaning somewhere.

: 1650

01:14:28,259 --> 01:14:30,769

Jerome: Yeah, which is odd in that film

because Morgan Freeman's supposed to

: 1651

01:14:30,779 --> 01:14:34,379

be the spiritual one in that movie and

Brad Pitt's the, the, the, the rage.

: 1652

01:14:34,749 --> 01:14:35,169

Right?

: 1653

01:14:35,269 --> 01:14:38,669

But in that scene, he's, they're

seeing each other's side of things.

: 1654

01:14:38,719 --> 01:14:39,039

Okay.

: 1655

01:14:39,589 --> 01:14:40,259

All is lost.

: 1656

01:14:40,259 --> 01:14:43,699

When we get back to reality, around

the one hour, nine minute mark,

: 1657

01:14:43,729 --> 01:14:48,329

Regina finishes the story that she

wrote and voices her displeasure.

: 1658

01:14:49,029 --> 01:14:53,449

Worse, she suggests Flannery write

stories, quote, people will like.

: 1659

01:14:54,384 --> 01:14:57,164

Any writer can truly

appreciate this scene.

: 1660

01:14:57,664 --> 01:15:01,004

This is once again another example

of how she writes this way.

: 1661

01:15:01,034 --> 01:15:02,174

Others can't handle it.

: 1662

01:15:02,584 --> 01:15:03,584

They make suggestions.

: 1663

01:15:03,584 --> 01:15:04,604

She ignores them.

: 1664

01:15:04,894 --> 01:15:06,384

And she moves on to the next story.

: 1665

01:15:07,784 --> 01:15:12,524

Although there's another great line here

where Regina is challenging Flannery.

: 1666

01:15:13,154 --> 01:15:16,664

If she makes any money from this

kind of writing, Flannery suggests

: 1667

01:15:16,664 --> 01:15:18,574

that she is paid with reputation.

: 1668

01:15:18,874 --> 01:15:23,024

Regina responds, quote, reputations

don't buy groceries, end quote.

: 1669

01:15:23,434 --> 01:15:26,274

I cannot tell you how much

I heard dad in that line.

: 1670

01:15:26,714 --> 01:15:30,604

So for anyone that knows me, if

I mentioned it on any previous

: 1671

01:15:30,604 --> 01:15:34,094

podcast, all when I was through

school my dad kept talking about

: 1672

01:15:34,154 --> 01:15:36,514

internship, internship, internship.

: 1673

01:15:36,774 --> 01:15:38,934

If you want to be a writer, you're

not going to make any money on that.

: 1674

01:15:38,934 --> 01:15:40,374

Get an internship somewhere.

: 1675

01:15:40,814 --> 01:15:44,214

Once I was out of college and

out on my own and working for a

: 1676

01:15:44,214 --> 01:15:47,474

living, my dad was all, write a

book, write a book, write a book.

: 1677

01:15:47,764 --> 01:15:51,584

It was always like, you know, dad

always had the great thought of,

: 1678

01:15:51,844 --> 01:15:54,084

you know, Stasis equals death.

: 1679

01:15:54,094 --> 01:15:56,024

You're not going to make any

money doing what you're doing.

: 1680

01:15:56,024 --> 01:15:57,084

Do this instead.

: 1681

01:15:57,404 --> 01:16:03,344

So I heard dad in my ear when she

said, reputations, don't buy groceries.

: 1682

01:16:03,374 --> 01:16:07,334

I was like, fuck, there's

like, God, it's hurt it.

: 1683

01:16:07,384 --> 01:16:08,014

And it hurt.

: 1684

01:16:08,044 --> 01:16:08,654

It hurt.

: 1685

01:16:10,209 --> 01:16:10,719

Uh, All right.

: 1686

01:16:10,729 --> 01:16:11,619

Dark night of the soul.

: 1687

01:16:11,619 --> 01:16:13,639

We have a small montage of the moment.

: 1688

01:16:13,719 --> 01:16:16,559

Montage moment of what I call

in quotes, living with lupus.

: 1689

01:16:16,859 --> 01:16:19,439

They show her how the

disease is debilitating.

: 1690

01:16:19,759 --> 01:16:22,159

Or she's starting to realize the

gravity of her illness, or at

: 1691

01:16:22,159 --> 01:16:23,229

least we as the audience are.

: 1692

01:16:23,239 --> 01:16:25,509

She obviously already knows the

gravity of her illness, but we as

: 1693

01:16:25,509 --> 01:16:26,619

an audience are started getting it.

: 1694

01:16:27,119 --> 01:16:30,539

This worries her as she's become

defiant in her writing the in her

: 1695

01:16:30,539 --> 01:16:33,949

writing the entire time and praying to

God in hopes she's not offending him.

: 1696

01:16:34,509 --> 01:16:35,509

Break into three.

: 1697

01:16:35,589 --> 01:16:37,219

A and B stories collide.

: 1698

01:16:37,229 --> 01:16:37,729

Here we go.

: 1699

01:16:37,729 --> 01:16:38,299

Are you ready?

: 1700

01:16:38,459 --> 01:16:40,299

One hour, 16 minute mark.

: 1701

01:16:40,299 --> 01:16:45,519

Regina fulfills the best I

got for a B story, leading

: 1702

01:16:45,519 --> 01:16:46,999

someone to their spiritual goal.

: 1703

01:16:47,249 --> 01:16:51,729

She arranges to have Father Flynn come.

: 1704

01:16:51,929 --> 01:16:53,129

Talk to Flannery.

: 1705

01:16:53,299 --> 01:16:58,559

So in a sense, if she was the beast

theory, she served her purpose by getting

: 1706

01:16:59,119 --> 01:17:03,669

Flannery into a situation where she can

achieve her spiritual goal by getting

: 1707

01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:05,068

her in the room with Father Flynn.

: 1708

01:17:05,269 --> 01:17:08,799

Jessie: Well, in earlier Flannery had

asked for the priest, but she kept

: 1709

01:17:08,869 --> 01:17:10,659

pushing the doctor, doctor, doctor.

: 1710

01:17:10,659 --> 01:17:14,049

And remember Flannery said, I need a

priest, but she kept doing the doctor till

: 1711

01:17:14,459 --> 01:17:17,269

Jerome: physical, physical,

physical, spiritual.

: 1712

01:17:17,759 --> 01:17:17,779

Yeah.

: 1713

01:17:17,818 --> 01:17:17,989

Okay.

: 1714

01:17:19,084 --> 01:17:21,604

She's worried that her writing

isn't coming from God, that it

: 1715

01:17:21,604 --> 01:17:24,904

lacks grace, and that it's too

scandalous and has violent elements.

: 1716

01:17:25,193 --> 01:17:29,604

Flynn dispels all that worry by asking Now

there's a whole long scene I'm obviously

: 1717

01:17:29,664 --> 01:17:31,443

cutting through, this really great

: 1718

01:17:31,744 --> 01:17:31,804

Jessie: scene.

: 1719

01:17:31,804 --> 01:17:34,464

Can we just, okay, can we just stop

for one minute and just call him

: 1720

01:17:34,474 --> 01:17:36,054

Aslan, like we're supposed to be?

: 1721

01:17:36,773 --> 01:17:37,864

Because that's what I heard.

: 1722

01:17:39,309 --> 01:17:39,818

Chris: Asland?

: 1723

01:17:40,459 --> 01:17:40,679

Yes!

: 1724

01:17:40,689 --> 01:17:43,259

He did Asland's voice

in Lord of the Rings.

: 1725

01:17:43,259 --> 01:17:44,659

Come on, man.

: 1726

01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:47,169

Liam Neeson, when he's talking

: 1727

01:17:47,169 --> 01:17:48,859

Jessie: like a priest,

sounds just like Asland.

: 1728

01:17:48,859 --> 01:17:53,639

I don't think he sounds And so when

Flannery was talking to him, I was like,

: 1729

01:17:53,679 --> 01:17:56,239

Asland just said to you that it's okay.

: 1730

01:17:56,489 --> 01:17:56,519

It's

: 1731

01:17:56,519 --> 01:17:57,040

Jerome: beautiful.

: 1732

01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:57,561

Jessie: See,

: 1733

01:17:57,561 --> 01:17:59,124

Jerome: you hear Asland.

: 1734

01:17:59,974 --> 01:18:06,984

I hear Qui Gon Jinn, so, so we

can see the differences here.

: 1735

01:18:07,144 --> 01:18:11,594

And when he talks, I was like, yes,

because Qui Gon was like a priest.

: 1736

01:18:11,594 --> 01:18:12,023

I get it.

: 1737

01:18:12,034 --> 01:18:12,984

He's a Jedi master.

: 1738

01:18:13,074 --> 01:18:14,874

Aslan laid down his life.

: 1739

01:18:15,134 --> 01:18:15,534

Jerome: All right.

: 1740

01:18:15,814 --> 01:18:17,144

It's like, it's beautiful.

: 1741

01:18:17,154 --> 01:18:17,634

Qui Gon.

: 1742

01:18:17,969 --> 01:18:18,729

Lay down his life.

: 1743

01:18:18,779 --> 01:18:19,648

Aslan.

: 1744

01:18:19,709 --> 01:18:20,679

Qygon.

: 1745

01:18:20,679 --> 01:18:21,104

Aslan.

: 1746

01:18:21,104 --> 01:18:21,529

Aslan.

: 1747

01:18:21,529 --> 01:18:21,954

Qygon.

: 1748

01:18:21,954 --> 01:18:22,379

Aslan.

: 1749

01:18:22,379 --> 01:18:22,749

Qygon.

: 1750

01:18:23,009 --> 01:18:24,099

Oh my god, we're gonna be here all day.

: 1751

01:18:24,329 --> 01:18:27,349

I love how this entire movie, this

is what we're gonna argue about.

: 1752

01:18:27,969 --> 01:18:31,829

Flynn dispels all of that, and

again, I'm kinda rushing through this

: 1753

01:18:31,829 --> 01:18:33,769

scene, but really it's a great scene.

: 1754

01:18:33,779 --> 01:18:34,068

It is great.

: 1755

01:18:34,068 --> 01:18:35,859

And if you've seen the movie,

you know what I'm talking about.

: 1756

01:18:35,879 --> 01:18:37,619

To me, it's the scene

that kinda sells it all.

: 1757

01:18:37,999 --> 01:18:38,789

He says to her

: 1758

01:18:38,839 --> 01:18:42,259

Chris: This is the scene, like,

when she's talking in this scene,

: 1759

01:18:42,449 --> 01:18:45,499

that they need to show at the

Academy Awards when she's nominated.

: 1760

01:18:45,889 --> 01:18:46,159

Jerome: Yes.

: 1761

01:18:46,169 --> 01:18:46,529

Yeah.

: 1762

01:18:46,529 --> 01:18:46,979

Oh, yeah.

: 1763

01:18:46,979 --> 01:18:48,889

Her, her, oh my God.

: 1764

01:18:49,339 --> 01:18:51,699

He says, quote, Is your writing honest?

: 1765

01:18:51,779 --> 01:18:53,239

Is your conscience clear?

: 1766

01:18:53,389 --> 01:18:57,109

She nods yes, and he says, quote,

Then the rest is God's business.

: 1767

01:18:57,568 --> 01:18:57,859

Yeah.

: 1768

01:18:57,909 --> 01:18:58,789

Another great line.

: 1769

01:18:58,929 --> 01:19:02,539

And then he finishes it later

with, Joy is sorrow over sorrow.

: 1770

01:19:02,864 --> 01:19:09,184

Sorrow overcome, which is joy, sorrow, as

I would say, I know it's very quite gone.

: 1771

01:19:09,184 --> 01:19:13,344

All right, five point finale, here we go.

: 1772

01:19:13,344 --> 01:19:15,634

I didn't think we'd ever

get here, but here we are.

: 1773

01:19:15,674 --> 01:19:19,674

Chris: Hold on really quick at the

close of the, the, the scene where

: 1774

01:19:19,684 --> 01:19:24,714

he was the, the priest was there

and, and she did this whole basically

: 1775

01:19:24,734 --> 01:19:26,814

pouring her heart out to him.

: 1776

01:19:27,344 --> 01:19:31,414

You know, in, in all her

struggles and everything, and he

: 1777

01:19:31,523 --> 01:19:34,054

pastorally comforts her, right?

: 1778

01:19:34,474 --> 01:19:38,124

Well, I love how at the very end of

that scene, They do the confession.

: 1779

01:19:38,134 --> 01:19:40,064

He's like, okay, now let's

do a proper confession.

: 1780

01:19:40,424 --> 01:19:41,282

Now let's do

: 1781

01:19:41,282 --> 01:19:42,120

Jerome: your confession!

: 1782

01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:43,796

Yeah, what was that?

: 1783

01:19:43,796 --> 01:19:44,216

Jessie: It's

: 1784

01:19:44,216 --> 01:19:46,404

Jerome: like, Isn't that

just like a Catholic priest?

: 1785

01:19:46,964 --> 01:19:47,023

Yeah,

: 1786

01:19:47,023 --> 01:19:50,534

Jessie: but dude, isn't that just like

what you want your priest to be like?

: 1787

01:19:50,544 --> 01:19:50,564

Yeah.

: 1788

01:19:50,574 --> 01:19:50,884

Yes!

: 1789

01:19:51,564 --> 01:19:54,864

You want your priest to be like,

But how many of us, Alright,

: 1790

01:19:54,894 --> 01:19:55,854

Jerome: come on, let's go on here.

: 1791

01:19:56,214 --> 01:19:57,484

Present company excluded.

: 1792

01:19:57,484 --> 01:20:00,054

You two aren't allowed to

answer anyone that's listening.

: 1793

01:20:00,693 --> 01:20:03,134

How many of us really have a

relationship with our priests like

: 1794

01:20:03,134 --> 01:20:04,734

that where they know our name?

: 1795

01:20:04,854 --> 01:20:06,004

They know where we're from.

: 1796

01:20:06,004 --> 01:20:09,214

They know everything about us

and you can have a conversation.

: 1797

01:20:09,214 --> 01:20:10,494

Why would we be excluded?

: 1798

01:20:11,054 --> 01:20:12,954

Because I think both of you

know your priest very well.

: 1799

01:20:13,904 --> 01:20:14,943

I think he knows you.

: 1800

01:20:14,984 --> 01:20:18,174

I think he knows your upbringing,

your name, your fucking middle name.

: 1801

01:20:18,334 --> 01:20:20,174

I think he knows

everything about you guys.

: 1802

01:20:20,584 --> 01:20:22,014

Our deacon does, not our priest.

: 1803

01:20:22,014 --> 01:20:25,584

Jessie: But that's okay.

: 1804

01:20:25,584 --> 01:20:27,374

I mean, it takes time.

: 1805

01:20:28,364 --> 01:20:29,064

Chris: No, I get it.

: 1806

01:20:29,064 --> 01:20:34,974

What that also did for me though, is

someone who's actually has recently

: 1807

01:20:34,994 --> 01:20:36,644

returned to the Catholic Church.

: 1808

01:20:37,523 --> 01:20:41,959

The idea that you can have

this This powerful scene.

: 1809

01:20:42,318 --> 01:20:47,329

And then it concludes with him

ex basically saying, okay, now

: 1810

01:20:47,329 --> 01:20:48,648

we're gonna do the sacrament.

: 1811

01:20:48,979 --> 01:20:51,229

And it's, it's, it's a private thing.

: 1812

01:20:51,229 --> 01:20:52,969

We don't need to hear her confession.

: 1813

01:20:53,119 --> 01:20:53,359

Right.

: 1814

01:20:53,359 --> 01:20:53,929

We don't watch it.

: 1815

01:20:53,929 --> 01:20:54,589

We don't get to watch it.

: 1816

01:20:54,589 --> 01:20:54,648

Yeah.

: 1817

01:20:54,648 --> 01:20:56,959

It's a, that's a private

thing between her and God.

: 1818

01:20:56,959 --> 01:20:57,019

Yeah.

: 1819

01:20:57,049 --> 01:20:57,889

And this priest.

: 1820

01:20:57,949 --> 01:20:58,068

Yeah.

: 1821

01:20:58,309 --> 01:20:58,999

And I think it was done

: 1822

01:20:58,999 --> 01:20:59,629

Jerome: like that purpose.

: 1823

01:20:59,629 --> 01:21:00,318

It was great.

: 1824

01:21:00,349 --> 01:21:00,619

Yeah.

: 1825

01:21:00,679 --> 01:21:00,889

Yeah.

: 1826

01:21:01,369 --> 01:21:02,119

Oh, he's so good.

: 1827

01:21:02,119 --> 01:21:02,568

Listen to him.

: 1828

01:21:02,898 --> 01:21:03,529

That's good.

: 1829

01:21:03,529 --> 01:21:04,729

Think about, that's why I said, wait.

: 1830

01:21:04,729 --> 01:21:05,094

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

: 1831

01:21:05,094 --> 01:21:05,374

Yeah.

: 1832

01:21:06,349 --> 01:21:06,689

Just think

: 1833

01:21:06,699 --> 01:21:07,629

Jessie: about that for a second.

: 1834

01:21:07,739 --> 01:21:08,779

That's really beautiful, babe.

: 1835

01:21:09,029 --> 01:21:09,509

Thank you.

: 1836

01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:16,029

We lost Jared.

: 1837

01:21:16,249 --> 01:21:17,219

We lost Jerome again.

: 1838

01:21:17,269 --> 01:21:20,669

No, but really, I mean that, that's a

good, and actually I didn't catch that.

: 1839

01:21:20,779 --> 01:21:22,949

I didn't catch that she

went through all that.

: 1840

01:21:23,204 --> 01:21:26,854

And then he said, let's do a proper

confession and then it cut out.

: 1841

01:21:26,864 --> 01:21:28,864

It didn't go into that private moment.

: 1842

01:21:28,864 --> 01:21:29,084

Right.

: 1843

01:21:29,084 --> 01:21:29,284

Jerome: Right.

: 1844

01:21:29,284 --> 01:21:29,534

Right.

: 1845

01:21:29,684 --> 01:21:30,134

Jessie: So,

: 1846

01:21:30,584 --> 01:21:30,974

Jerome: all right.

: 1847

01:21:30,984 --> 01:21:32,023

Five point finale.

: 1848

01:21:32,154 --> 01:21:32,814

Here we go.

: 1849

01:21:33,124 --> 01:21:34,234

Gathering the team.

: 1850

01:21:34,294 --> 01:21:35,954

father Flynn serves a dual purpose.

: 1851

01:21:36,184 --> 01:21:38,844

Not only does he give the reassurance

to Flannery, the purpose of the team

: 1852

01:21:39,019 --> 01:21:42,119

the purpose to break into three,

but also it's the best example we

: 1853

01:21:42,119 --> 01:21:43,579

have of gathering the team, right?

: 1854

01:21:43,619 --> 01:21:48,239

This is her, like, facing everything

that she's been working toward.

: 1855

01:21:48,599 --> 01:21:52,919

Execution of the plan, she begins writing,

Good country people, with herself as

: 1856

01:21:52,919 --> 01:21:55,159

Holga, the girl with the wooden leg.

: 1857

01:21:55,389 --> 01:21:57,818

Originally named Joy, see that?

: 1858

01:21:57,849 --> 01:21:58,709

See what he did there?

: 1859

01:21:58,769 --> 01:21:59,179

Joy.

: 1860

01:22:00,049 --> 01:22:00,959

Is sorrow overcome?

: 1861

01:22:02,154 --> 01:22:04,734

Her character's original name is

Joy, but she changed it to Hulga,

: 1862

01:22:04,994 --> 01:22:06,773

and the wooden leg represents Lupus.

: 1863

01:22:07,273 --> 01:22:10,434

The ailment that Olga comes to

live with and ultimately becomes

: 1864

01:22:10,484 --> 01:22:12,604

attached to as part of her identity.

: 1865

01:22:12,884 --> 01:22:14,284

I think that's, that's very telling.

: 1866

01:22:14,284 --> 01:22:18,754

Jessie: The hardest thing about having any

kind of a disease is saying my disease and

: 1867

01:22:18,754 --> 01:22:22,804

like owning that as part of your identity

instead of just as a thing that you're

: 1868

01:22:22,804 --> 01:22:25,424

struggling with because it's in the flesh.

: 1869

01:22:25,424 --> 01:22:26,354

It isn't me.

: 1870

01:22:26,364 --> 01:22:30,054

It isn't my personality, but it's a

very real present part of my life.

: 1871

01:22:30,219 --> 01:22:34,068

Jerome: And how many times do people say,

and you could probably speak more better

: 1872

01:22:34,169 --> 01:22:38,269

about this than I can, that this ailment,

whatever it is, doesn't define me.

: 1873

01:22:38,279 --> 01:22:39,439

You hear that all the time, right?

: 1874

01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:40,469

This doesn't define me.

: 1875

01:22:40,699 --> 01:22:45,089

And while it might not define you as a bad

word, but it is part of you now, right?

: 1876

01:22:45,089 --> 01:22:45,339

Right.

: 1877

01:22:45,339 --> 01:22:45,679

And you

: 1878

01:22:45,679 --> 01:22:47,859

Jessie: struggle, but it's

all words matter, right?

: 1879

01:22:47,869 --> 01:22:52,519

So my, my disease, my, this,

my, that, and I'm like, no,

: 1880

01:22:52,529 --> 01:22:55,249

the, the, this is an outside.

: 1881

01:22:56,924 --> 01:22:58,334

This isn't who I am.

: 1882

01:22:58,634 --> 01:23:00,264

This is like a foreign invader.

: 1883

01:23:00,464 --> 01:23:02,394

And yes, I have to live with them, right?

: 1884

01:23:02,404 --> 01:23:05,894

I mean, how many people have had to do

that throughout history in real life?

: 1885

01:23:06,464 --> 01:23:08,614

You're living with a foreign

invader as your neighbor.

: 1886

01:23:09,023 --> 01:23:11,184

It's part of your life,

but it isn't who you are.

: 1887

01:23:11,934 --> 01:23:12,034

Right.

: 1888

01:23:12,034 --> 01:23:12,354

Yeah.

: 1889

01:23:12,394 --> 01:23:13,669

So anyway, yeah, I get that.

: 1890

01:23:14,389 --> 01:23:16,079

Jerome: Okay, three, Hightower Surprise.

: 1891

01:23:16,099 --> 01:23:20,919

Flannery gets a letter from Cal,

who she thinks she sees at the

: 1892

01:23:20,919 --> 01:23:23,379

train station, but you know, it's

just a figment of her imagination.

: 1893

01:23:23,669 --> 01:23:26,189

He informs her that he

is marrying Elizabeth.

: 1894

01:23:26,279 --> 01:23:27,898

Much to her disappointment.

: 1895

01:23:28,549 --> 01:23:29,059

Dig down I think it's much

: 1896

01:23:29,059 --> 01:23:29,959

Jessie: to her chagrin.

: 1897

01:23:31,699 --> 01:23:33,409

Jerome: I actually wrote chagrin.

: 1898

01:23:33,939 --> 01:23:36,309

I fucking wrote chagrin.

: 1899

01:23:36,318 --> 01:23:36,499

Did

: 1900

01:23:36,499 --> 01:23:37,199

you really?

: 1901

01:23:37,398 --> 01:23:38,039

Jerome: I did.

: 1902

01:23:38,209 --> 01:23:39,419

Oh, I'm so proud of you.

: 1903

01:23:39,648 --> 01:23:42,599

I, no, I feel bad now that I tried

to dumb it down for our audience.

: 1904

01:23:42,619 --> 01:23:43,109

No, don't dumb it,

: 1905

01:23:43,398 --> 01:23:45,179

Jessie: this is an intelligent audience.

: 1906

01:23:45,259 --> 01:23:48,318

Jerome: I felt that we were drinking

at that point so much that I

: 1907

01:23:48,318 --> 01:23:49,419

should just say disappointment.

: 1908

01:23:49,449 --> 01:23:49,589

You

: 1909

01:23:49,589 --> 01:23:52,739

Jessie: are never drinking too

much to properly use the word.

: 1910

01:23:53,999 --> 01:23:56,189

Jerome: Alright, well for the

audience, I fucking wrote it.

: 1911

01:23:56,199 --> 01:23:57,009

It's right there.

: 1912

01:23:57,509 --> 01:23:58,148

Take a picture.

: 1913

01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:00,439

What's funny is that you should

say that because I literally

: 1914

01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:01,679

wrote much to her chagrin.

: 1915

01:24:01,739 --> 01:24:02,068

Okay.

: 1916

01:24:02,119 --> 01:24:02,589

That's great.

: 1917

01:24:03,029 --> 01:24:03,849

Dig down deep.

: 1918

01:24:03,849 --> 01:24:07,759

At one hour, 35 minutes

in, the peacock arrives.

: 1919

01:24:07,789 --> 01:24:08,039

Yeah.

: 1920

01:24:08,089 --> 01:24:12,459

And it is the first time we

see her smile in a long time.

: 1921

01:24:12,499 --> 01:24:13,529

Yeah, and those teeth

: 1922

01:24:13,539 --> 01:24:13,859

Jessie: though.

: 1923

01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:15,179

Sweet woman.

: 1924

01:24:15,969 --> 01:24:16,818

She had some teeth.

: 1925

01:24:18,639 --> 01:24:19,519

They gave her teeth.

: 1926

01:24:19,529 --> 01:24:20,609

That's not Maya's teeth.

: 1927

01:24:21,139 --> 01:24:21,259

Jerome: I know.

: 1928

01:24:21,568 --> 01:24:22,818

Oh, do you know that for sure?

: 1929

01:24:23,174 --> 01:24:24,054

I'm pretty sure, yeah.

: 1930

01:24:24,054 --> 01:24:24,588

I've seen them.

: 1931

01:24:24,588 --> 01:24:27,474

Right now, Maya's listening because

she's sitting right next to Ethan.

: 1932

01:24:27,594 --> 01:24:27,854

Oh, yeah.

: 1933

01:24:27,854 --> 01:24:29,144

They're listening to this together.

: 1934

01:24:29,144 --> 01:24:30,224

They're listening together.

: 1935

01:24:30,284 --> 01:24:31,094

And she's like, Yes!

: 1936

01:24:31,094 --> 01:24:32,023

Those weren't my teeth!

: 1937

01:24:32,044 --> 01:24:33,554

That's prosthetics or whatever.

: 1938

01:24:34,254 --> 01:24:35,174

Okay, five.

: 1939

01:24:35,174 --> 01:24:36,604

Execution of the new plan.

: 1940

01:24:36,644 --> 01:24:38,314

Acceptance of the disease.

: 1941

01:24:38,324 --> 01:24:42,264

She knows she'll never move back to

New York and decides to stay with mom.

: 1942

01:24:42,874 --> 01:24:46,144

And like you said, she's now, how

you mentioned about that, that was

: 1943

01:24:46,144 --> 01:24:50,074

sort of like a personal thing for her

now that she has to live off, right?

: 1944

01:24:50,174 --> 01:24:51,834

Her mother's, her mother's money.

: 1945

01:24:51,834 --> 01:24:52,074

But mom

: 1946

01:24:52,074 --> 01:24:53,794

Jessie: accepted the peacocks too, man.

: 1947

01:24:53,804 --> 01:24:54,114

Yes,

: 1948

01:24:54,174 --> 01:24:57,214

Jerome: I know, but, but the funny thing

is the mom at first was like, they're

: 1949

01:24:57,214 --> 01:24:58,844

gonna eat all my flowers or whatever.

: 1950

01:24:58,844 --> 01:24:59,014

And

: 1951

01:24:59,014 --> 01:25:01,193

then they do, but she still

isn't saying get rid of them.

: 1952

01:25:01,204 --> 01:25:03,064

Jerome: Well, and what I

understand peacocks are.

: 1953

01:25:03,509 --> 01:25:04,689

Little fuckers, man.

: 1954

01:25:04,689 --> 01:25:05,639

They eat everything.

: 1955

01:25:05,648 --> 01:25:09,089

Like, they don't, they're, they,

they put, they only put out their

: 1956

01:25:09,089 --> 01:25:10,589

little feathers when they want.

: 1957

01:25:10,619 --> 01:25:11,609

They don't do it all the time.

: 1958

01:25:11,609 --> 01:25:12,839

They only do it when they want.

: 1959

01:25:13,148 --> 01:25:14,349

And they eat everything.

: 1960

01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:15,229

They're little bitches.

: 1961

01:25:15,289 --> 01:25:15,879

All right, anyway.

: 1962

01:25:16,579 --> 01:25:20,439

All right, so she builds the writing

shrine in her room, and she writes.

: 1963

01:25:20,449 --> 01:25:23,829

Now, I have to say, before we get

to this ending she's fully now

: 1964

01:25:23,829 --> 01:25:25,669

accepting, like, who she really is.

: 1965

01:25:25,719 --> 01:25:29,404

Which, again, I don't want to say she

hasn't changed from the beginning.

: 1966

01:25:29,484 --> 01:25:34,414

All I, all I'm saying is, is that

her defiance in her character,

: 1967

01:25:34,414 --> 01:25:38,814

at least the defiance in her

writing, the biggest journey.

: 1968

01:25:40,164 --> 01:25:43,884

I feel that she had was, was

culminating in that priest scene.

: 1969

01:25:44,034 --> 01:25:45,404

It was her relationship with God.

: 1970

01:25:45,954 --> 01:25:51,074

And the peacock feathers coming out, I,

I fuckin love that addition at the end.

: 1971

01:25:51,614 --> 01:25:54,664

Because of, you know, like, like

what Jessie said, she builds this

: 1972

01:25:54,674 --> 01:25:57,894

wall, and this shrine to herself.

: 1973

01:25:58,054 --> 01:25:59,954

Jessie: Not, not to herself.

: 1974

01:26:00,084 --> 01:26:01,324

For herself.

: 1975

01:26:01,554 --> 01:26:02,594

Jerome: No, what, what did I say?

: 1976

01:26:02,984 --> 01:26:06,764

Jessie: You said to herself, which,

I mean, but words matter, right?

: 1977

01:26:07,304 --> 01:26:12,273

It's for herself, I think, is a

better way to articulate that.

: 1978

01:26:12,954 --> 01:26:18,684

Chris: Like a shrine to

yourself would be like Yeah,

: 1979

01:26:18,684 --> 01:26:19,814

Jessie: I think it's just for herself.

: 1980

01:26:19,824 --> 01:26:20,674

Oh, I'm sorry.

: 1981

01:26:20,874 --> 01:26:23,634

It's like she created a place

for herself where she could

: 1982

01:26:23,634 --> 01:26:25,144

finally be free, be herself.

: 1983

01:26:25,164 --> 01:26:25,464

Yes,

: 1984

01:26:25,494 --> 01:26:29,234

Jerome: the shrine, not to

herself, but for herself.

: 1985

01:26:29,984 --> 01:26:33,534

And the epilogue on screen states that

she stayed writing in that room for

: 1986

01:26:33,534 --> 01:26:35,564

the next 14 years until her death.

: 1987

01:26:36,204 --> 01:26:40,054

Okay, side note, side notes, as

mentioned I think it's very clear

: 1988

01:26:40,054 --> 01:26:44,424

that Ethan and co writer Shelby Gaines

made to depict her writing process.

: 1989

01:26:44,443 --> 01:26:47,193

Often, like the mental side of it, right?

: 1990

01:26:47,564 --> 01:26:49,824

Experiencing her life

and having them play out.

: 1991

01:26:50,169 --> 01:26:54,109

In the people in her life, playing the

fictional roles of the stories that were

: 1992

01:26:54,109 --> 01:26:57,529

going on in her head at the time for

us, the audience, you know what I mean?

: 1993

01:26:57,979 --> 01:27:01,799

And again, I mentioned many

biopics, particularly about writers.

: 1994

01:27:02,299 --> 01:27:05,289

They have too many moments where

the subject is like sitting at

: 1995

01:27:05,289 --> 01:27:06,809

a typewriter and just typing.

: 1996

01:27:08,154 --> 01:27:11,193

And while Wildcat has a few of those,

they're usually just there for setup,

: 1997

01:27:11,404 --> 01:27:13,364

and then we jump into the story.

: 1998

01:27:13,544 --> 01:27:14,164

You know what I mean?

: 1999

01:27:14,464 --> 01:27:17,324

We don't have a, we don't spend

a lot of time just showing

: 2000

01:27:17,324 --> 01:27:20,264

her sitting there writing at a

typewriter, which I, which I love.

: 2001

01:27:20,264 --> 01:27:22,084

I think that was a creative

way to handle that.

: 2002

01:27:22,564 --> 01:27:26,318

And those elements that we see

Like the short story elements.

: 2003

01:27:26,349 --> 01:27:28,789

They're far more entertaining

when you do it that way.

: 2004

01:27:28,818 --> 01:27:29,439

You know what I mean?

: 2005

01:27:29,639 --> 01:27:33,299

Then a person sitting in a typewriter

typing, and even if they had a voiceover

: 2006

01:27:33,299 --> 01:27:36,429

while they were typing, which you've

seen movies do that, where they're

: 2007

01:27:36,429 --> 01:27:39,789

sitting in a typewriter and then you

hear what they're saying, but that's

: 2008

01:27:39,799 --> 01:27:42,159

lame too, in comparison to what.

: 2009

01:27:42,614 --> 01:27:47,064

Ethan does where we get to

actually visually see it and see it

: 2010

01:27:47,084 --> 01:27:54,434

Jessie: with the main character of Maya

playing Flannery and Laura playing mom.

: 2011

01:27:55,164 --> 01:27:55,754

What's her name?

: 2012

01:27:55,874 --> 01:27:56,414

Roberta.

: 2013

01:27:57,349 --> 01:27:57,889

Jerome: Regina.

: 2014

01:27:57,919 --> 01:27:58,429

Jessie: Regina.

: 2015

01:27:58,469 --> 01:27:58,909

Oh, man.

: 2016

01:27:58,919 --> 01:27:59,189

See?

: 2017

01:27:59,209 --> 01:27:59,669

I told you.

: 2018

01:27:59,989 --> 01:28:00,729

Horrible with names.

: 2019

01:28:01,059 --> 01:28:04,129

But anyway, but seeing it

play out that way, just, it

: 2020

01:28:04,169 --> 01:28:06,039

adds such depth to the story.

: 2021

01:28:06,089 --> 01:28:09,839

Chris: Which also saved them

a whole bunch of money on not

: 2022

01:28:09,989 --> 01:28:11,599

having to hire other actors.

: 2023

01:28:11,909 --> 01:28:12,389

Yeah, because

: 2024

01:28:12,389 --> 01:28:14,339

Jessie: it is an artistic license, right?

: 2025

01:28:14,449 --> 01:28:18,549

I mean, you're taking for granted that all

of these stories are dilemmas that she's

: 2026

01:28:18,559 --> 01:28:23,269

having as she wrestles with her making

peace with loving this imperfect mother.

: 2027

01:28:24,409 --> 01:28:26,229

But but maybe it wasn't like that for her.

: 2028

01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:27,479

Maybe it was more cut and dry.

: 2029

01:28:27,519 --> 01:28:29,179

Maybe she was imagining the neighbor.

: 2030

01:28:29,259 --> 01:28:29,809

We don't know.

: 2031

01:28:29,809 --> 01:28:32,189

They took their artistic liberty there.

: 2032

01:28:32,219 --> 01:28:32,849

Chris: But you know what?

: 2033

01:28:32,859 --> 01:28:38,929

In having the same actors play these

characters that are in the short stories,

: 2034

01:28:39,839 --> 01:28:43,398

to me it actually helps the story.

: 2035

01:28:43,659 --> 01:28:48,419

Like if they would have hired different

actors, it might have been more confusing.

: 2036

01:28:49,099 --> 01:28:50,629

Like, okay, what is this story now?

: 2037

01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:51,148

And who are these people?

: 2038

01:28:51,169 --> 01:28:51,879

Absolutely.

: 2039

01:28:52,009 --> 01:28:52,249

Absolutely.

: 2040

01:28:52,249 --> 01:28:58,519

Because it was the same actors, Linney

and Maya Hawke in different roles.

: 2041

01:28:58,519 --> 01:28:59,509

Yeah, you knew.

: 2042

01:28:59,509 --> 01:29:01,068

Yeah, you knew, oh, this is a story.

: 2043

01:29:01,398 --> 01:29:03,879

Jerome: Particularly

the bus, the revelation.

: 2044

01:29:03,898 --> 01:29:07,169

No, no, it was the all things

that rises must converge, right?

: 2045

01:29:07,169 --> 01:29:07,509

Right, right.

: 2046

01:29:07,519 --> 01:29:09,999

So on the bus, she's dressed like a boy.

: 2047

01:29:10,129 --> 01:29:10,429

Yep.

: 2048

01:29:10,469 --> 01:29:10,829

Jerome: Right?

: 2049

01:29:10,859 --> 01:29:13,189

And her mom even says, why are

you always dressed like a gangster

: 2050

01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:14,389

whenever we go out together?

: 2051

01:29:14,789 --> 01:29:17,209

Like that, like when I saw

that, I was like, I got it.

: 2052

01:29:17,669 --> 01:29:21,879

We're in a new story now, and I think

because again, I hadn't read it the

: 2053

01:29:21,879 --> 01:29:25,929

actual story at the time I remember

thinking not only are we in a new story.

: 2054

01:29:26,249 --> 01:29:27,339

I think in this story.

: 2055

01:29:27,339 --> 01:29:30,759

She's playing a boy Right

like so I I don't know.

: 2056

01:29:30,759 --> 01:29:31,689

I thought it was genius.

: 2057

01:29:31,729 --> 01:29:34,648

I thought it was genius I will say,

in addition to that, the direction

: 2058

01:29:34,648 --> 01:29:36,309

and the cinematography are fantastic.

: 2059

01:29:36,759 --> 01:29:39,409

Obviously, as well as the

acting from everyone involved.

: 2060

01:29:39,419 --> 01:29:41,229

Mostly Maya, playing Flannery.

: 2061

01:29:41,648 --> 01:29:43,029

I think she carries the film.

: 2062

01:29:43,619 --> 01:29:47,509

She carries it on her shoulders, and

remember that she's rarely off screen.

: 2063

01:29:47,509 --> 01:29:51,539

And you don't see that that

much where the main character

: 2064

01:29:51,539 --> 01:29:53,639

is almost in every single scene.

: 2065

01:29:53,709 --> 01:29:54,389

You know what I mean?

: 2066

01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:54,849

Yeah.

: 2067

01:29:55,939 --> 01:29:56,939

Jerome: It's her film.

: 2068

01:29:57,099 --> 01:29:57,539

Easily.

: 2069

01:29:57,539 --> 01:29:58,259

From start to end.

: 2070

01:29:59,469 --> 01:30:01,379

Oddly enough, I'm going

to say something, Chris.

: 2071

01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:03,339

Here's some criticism I'm

going to throw at you now.

: 2072

01:30:04,189 --> 01:30:08,799

Since you, sir, we're critical

of Killian Murphy's, what you

: 2073

01:30:08,839 --> 01:30:11,739

called PTSD stare in Oppenheimer.

: 2074

01:30:13,229 --> 01:30:19,029

Maya had a similar, what I call, quote

unquote, her thinking face that she does

: 2075

01:30:19,039 --> 01:30:22,429

have draped in many scenes in this movie.

: 2076

01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:28,089

I happen to not mind the PTSD stare

in Oppenheimer, which is why I loved

: 2077

01:30:28,309 --> 01:30:30,539

the thinking face that Maya has.

: 2078

01:30:30,909 --> 01:30:33,889

But if you are gonna love Maya in

this movie, you better go back and

: 2079

01:30:33,889 --> 01:30:35,879

rethink your Oppenheimer criticism.

: 2080

01:30:36,059 --> 01:30:36,669

Chris: Maybe.

: 2081

01:30:37,249 --> 01:30:40,969

Jessie: But what if Cillian Murphy

just has a really creepy face?

: 2082

01:30:41,749 --> 01:30:44,359

And that's all, that just

makes the stare worse.

: 2083

01:30:45,249 --> 01:30:46,469

Jerome: Alright, in honor of that.

: 2084

01:30:48,599 --> 01:30:48,859

Okay.

: 2085

01:30:48,989 --> 01:30:50,779

Jessie: Well here, just

one thing, wait, hold on.

: 2086

01:30:50,799 --> 01:30:53,159

I want to say one thing, I don't know

if you're going to talk about this.

: 2087

01:30:53,169 --> 01:30:53,949

One thing?

: 2088

01:30:54,189 --> 01:30:54,959

Just one thing.

: 2089

01:30:55,259 --> 01:30:58,129

I'm going to say, here's a thing

that I noticed in this movie

: 2090

01:30:58,129 --> 01:31:01,109

that I do not notice in movies.

: 2091

01:31:01,759 --> 01:31:02,459

Lighting.

: 2092

01:31:03,629 --> 01:31:05,139

Jerome: You don't notice

lighting in movies?

: 2093

01:31:05,189 --> 01:31:05,519

Nope,

: 2094

01:31:05,539 --> 01:31:06,509

Jessie: never have until this one.

: 2095

01:31:06,509 --> 01:31:06,839

You haven't

: 2096

01:31:06,839 --> 01:31:08,398

Jerome: seen a lot of

Scorsese movies, have you?

: 2097

01:31:08,599 --> 01:31:08,818

Jessie: No.

: 2098

01:31:08,829 --> 01:31:09,159

Have you seen

: 2099

01:31:09,159 --> 01:31:09,909

Jerome: The Godfather?

: 2100

01:31:10,148 --> 01:31:11,139

Jessie: I don't like Scorsese.

: 2101

01:31:12,129 --> 01:31:13,009

Was that how you say it?

: 2102

01:31:13,529 --> 01:31:14,909

You don't like Scorsese movies?

: 2103

01:31:14,909 --> 01:31:15,619

No, I don't.

: 2104

01:31:15,659 --> 01:31:18,339

I don't like movies where a whole bunch

of people are being killed all the time.

: 2105

01:31:18,439 --> 01:31:19,889

Okay, so don't judge me.

: 2106

01:31:20,349 --> 01:31:21,339

It is what it is.

: 2107

01:31:21,359 --> 01:31:23,359

But in this movie, I paused.

: 2108

01:31:23,979 --> 01:31:28,989

The, I paused the movie in the scene

where they're up in the barn, where she,

: 2109

01:31:29,039 --> 01:31:31,559

where the guy's like hustling off her leg.

: 2110

01:31:32,309 --> 01:31:35,489

And I was like, look at

the lighting in this scene.

: 2111

01:31:36,469 --> 01:31:37,459

Was there a thing?

: 2112

01:31:37,469 --> 01:31:39,049

Because why would I notice that?

: 2113

01:31:40,584 --> 01:31:45,884

Jerome: It was very good lighting, but

it's odd to me that it took this movie

: 2114

01:31:45,884 --> 01:31:50,424

for you to realize that lighting plays

a part in the direction of a film.

: 2115

01:31:50,714 --> 01:31:51,184

Jessie: I don't know.

: 2116

01:31:51,224 --> 01:31:52,734

It's just a thing I finally noticed.

: 2117

01:31:52,754 --> 01:31:54,414

I mean, hello, we're all evolving.

: 2118

01:31:54,574 --> 01:31:54,924

I evolved.

: 2119

01:31:54,924 --> 01:31:55,374

All right,

: 2120

01:31:55,504 --> 01:31:58,584

Jerome: Ethan, since you're

still listening with Maya

: 2121

01:31:58,584 --> 01:31:59,594

sitting right next to you.

: 2122

01:32:00,124 --> 01:32:04,584

Your cinematographer and your key grips

and the guys that set up the lights.

: 2123

01:32:04,794 --> 01:32:05,454

Well done.

: 2124

01:32:05,504 --> 01:32:05,914

Well done.

: 2125

01:32:05,924 --> 01:32:06,654

Dude, is the key

: 2126

01:32:06,654 --> 01:32:07,794

Jessie: grip the one with the lights?

: 2127

01:32:07,794 --> 01:32:09,434

I've never known what the key grip did.

: 2128

01:32:09,474 --> 01:32:12,443

Jerome: Well, the grips, the key

grip just leads all the grips.

: 2129

01:32:12,443 --> 01:32:14,773

The grips are the guys that carry

the lights from the trailer.

: 2130

01:32:14,773 --> 01:32:18,284

They set them all up but the

cinematographer is really in charge.

: 2131

01:32:18,284 --> 01:32:18,384

The

: 2132

01:32:18,404 --> 01:32:19,394

Jessie: important grip.

: 2133

01:32:19,434 --> 01:32:21,984

The well, the key grip

is in charge, the king

: 2134

01:32:21,994 --> 01:32:23,864

Jerome: grip, king of all the grips.

: 2135

01:32:24,644 --> 01:32:24,984

Wow.

: 2136

01:32:25,734 --> 01:32:26,284

Jessie: I love it.

: 2137

01:32:26,324 --> 01:32:27,214

I never knew that.

: 2138

01:32:28,574 --> 01:32:30,564

Jerome: But the cinematographer

is in charge of all that shit.

: 2139

01:32:30,574 --> 01:32:33,254

They're in charge of the lighting

and the filters and all that shit.

: 2140

01:32:33,334 --> 01:32:33,684

Okay.

: 2141

01:32:34,314 --> 01:32:34,854

Trivia.

: 2142

01:32:35,394 --> 01:32:35,994

Title.

: 2143

01:32:36,334 --> 01:32:37,523

You guys are going to like this one.

: 2144

01:32:38,084 --> 01:32:40,054

So, Ethan Hawke's first interview.

: 2145

01:32:40,404 --> 01:32:42,294

The one with the priest Bishop Barron?

: 2146

01:32:42,304 --> 01:32:42,574

Yes.

: 2147

01:32:42,584 --> 01:32:45,414

That was the first, that was the

first interview he did for this film.

: 2148

01:32:45,534 --> 01:32:45,693

Yep.

: 2149

01:32:45,834 --> 01:32:48,334

Jerome: He's asked about

the title by the bishop.

: 2150

01:32:48,724 --> 01:32:51,644

And he says that it's a play

on her character in real life.

: 2151

01:32:51,684 --> 01:32:55,364

Unpredictable, untameable,

that she is a wildcat.

: 2152

01:32:55,634 --> 01:33:00,193

But then the bishop goes on about

how he figured it was taken from an

: 2153

01:33:00,204 --> 01:33:01,714

early short story that she wrote.

: 2154

01:33:01,773 --> 01:33:02,104

Called

: 2155

01:33:02,104 --> 01:33:03,014

Chris: the Wildcat!

: 2156

01:33:03,084 --> 01:33:04,574

Jerome: Wait, wait, let me finish.

: 2157

01:33:04,664 --> 01:33:09,834

called Wildcat, which is about an

old blind black dude who isolates

: 2158

01:33:09,834 --> 01:33:13,914

himself inside of his cabin because

he's afraid of this wildcat that's

: 2159

01:33:13,924 --> 01:33:15,523

roaming around outside his cabin.

: 2160

01:33:15,523 --> 01:33:16,424

Murdering people!

: 2161

01:33:16,964 --> 01:33:20,404

While his family tells him that

they're gonna kill the thing, it

: 2162

01:33:20,414 --> 01:33:26,534

does serve as the metaphor that he is

accepting that death is coming for him.

: 2163

01:33:26,693 --> 01:33:31,834

Lupus comes from the Latin word wolf,

so there's a connection between the

: 2164

01:33:31,834 --> 01:33:36,284

wildcat in that story and the lupus that

she had in real life, metaphorically.

: 2165

01:33:37,164 --> 01:33:42,214

Stalking her outside the cabin,

as the cabin of her soul, as

: 2166

01:33:42,224 --> 01:33:44,324

death breathes down her neck.

: 2167

01:33:44,724 --> 01:33:49,154

The film does seem to keep that

bleak reality in the forefront.

: 2168

01:33:49,164 --> 01:33:51,544

The fact that she knows she's gonna die.

: 2169

01:33:51,724 --> 01:33:53,744

There's a lot of somber shots.

: 2170

01:33:53,954 --> 01:33:57,214

There's occasional crows

calling and bell tolls.

: 2171

01:33:57,564 --> 01:34:00,964

And of course, the final epilogue

mentions the connection to Lupus

: 2172

01:34:00,964 --> 01:34:03,004

to the word the wolf, right?

: 2173

01:34:03,534 --> 01:34:09,029

So the bishop says all this and Ethan

says, Ethan Hawke says Well, this

: 2174

01:34:09,029 --> 01:34:11,189

is my first Wildcat Ick interview.

: 2175

01:34:11,389 --> 01:34:13,699

From now on, I'll say that that

was the meaning of the title.

: 2176

01:34:13,849 --> 01:34:14,559

Oh my god.

: 2177

01:34:14,559 --> 01:34:15,284

Okay.

: 2178

01:34:15,284 --> 01:34:16,009

Dude.

: 2179

01:34:16,009 --> 01:34:16,734

So.

: 2180

01:34:16,734 --> 01:34:17,459

Jerome: So

: 2181

01:34:17,459 --> 01:34:18,909

I read.

: 2182

01:34:18,909 --> 01:34:20,359

That's amazing.

: 2183

01:34:20,359 --> 01:34:21,809

Jerome: So I.

: 2184

01:34:21,809 --> 01:34:22,199

Ethan!

: 2185

01:34:22,228 --> 01:34:22,728

Wait, wait, wait.

: 2186

01:34:22,728 --> 01:34:23,259

Before you start.

: 2187

01:34:23,318 --> 01:34:23,659

Ethan.

: 2188

01:34:23,669 --> 01:34:23,999

Say it.

: 2189

01:34:24,049 --> 01:34:24,879

Talk to Ethan.

: 2190

01:34:24,929 --> 01:34:26,459

Since I know you're listening, Ethan.

: 2191

01:34:26,728 --> 01:34:28,568

That's the perfect fucking answer.

: 2192

01:34:29,119 --> 01:34:31,949

If somebody tells you something

is more meaningful than

: 2193

01:34:31,949 --> 01:34:33,579

you meant it, go with that!

: 2194

01:34:34,894 --> 01:34:38,554

That's the one you go with here am I I'm

trying to teach Ethan Hawke something He's

: 2195

01:34:38,554 --> 01:34:43,204

been in the fucking business a million

years But yeah that absolutely he had the

: 2196

01:34:43,204 --> 01:34:47,684

perfect answer from now on every interview

I give that's the meaning of the title

: 2197

01:34:47,744 --> 01:34:54,159

Jessie: Okay, so one point Bishop

Baron Anyway, so when I read Wildcat,

: 2198

01:34:54,289 --> 01:34:59,329

I, so my perception of that story

was that the Wildcat was a metaphor

: 2199

01:34:59,339 --> 01:35:01,269

for the thing that you fear the most.

: 2200

01:35:01,779 --> 01:35:07,779

And in the story, I, I felt it was a nod

to racism, that these people, that's what

: 2201

01:35:07,779 --> 01:35:11,318

they were really afraid of, like this

systematic racism, that no matter what

: 2202

01:35:11,329 --> 01:35:15,489

you do, no matter how hard you try, no

matter how successful you are, how much

: 2203

01:35:15,489 --> 01:35:19,659

you try to change the culture, there

are certain things in place that are

: 2204

01:35:19,659 --> 01:35:21,709

just always going to come and get you.

: 2205

01:35:22,384 --> 01:35:22,834

And

: 2206

01:35:22,834 --> 01:35:25,954

Jessie: they're gonna get you in your

sleep that you can't even avoid it.

: 2207

01:35:26,089 --> 01:35:28,414

So it's interesting that, and

so when I read that, I thought.

: 2208

01:35:29,059 --> 01:35:32,978

I thought that's what the movie was

named for, too, and I thought it was

: 2209

01:35:33,139 --> 01:35:35,459

literally a failure of her writing.

: 2210

01:35:35,949 --> 01:35:39,169

I thought her biggest fear

wasn't dying of lupus in the end.

: 2211

01:35:39,339 --> 01:35:40,939

I mean, I have an autoimmune disease.

: 2212

01:35:40,939 --> 01:35:44,159

My biggest fear isn't

dying from this disease.

: 2213

01:35:44,169 --> 01:35:48,009

It's dying after living a life

where I didn't contribute.

: 2214

01:35:48,519 --> 01:35:52,809

Like a life without meaning, a life

where I didn't accomplish my great

: 2215

01:35:52,999 --> 01:35:55,049

hopes and dreams artistically.

: 2216

01:35:55,049 --> 01:35:55,478

Right?

: 2217

01:35:55,799 --> 01:36:00,989

So I thought the Wildcat was her dying

without writing that freaking novel.

: 2218

01:36:01,509 --> 01:36:06,318

So, okay, Ethan, I agree with Bishop

Barron, but also could we please consider

: 2219

01:36:06,379 --> 01:36:10,309

my, could we consider this as an option?

: 2220

01:36:10,309 --> 01:36:11,439

Cause that's what I thought.

: 2221

01:36:11,459 --> 01:36:13,779

And I was like, wow, that's

really amazing that they named

: 2222

01:36:13,779 --> 01:36:16,269

the story Wildcat because yeah.

: 2223

01:36:16,554 --> 01:36:20,523

So I didn't watch all these other extra

interviews or anything and literally not

: 2224

01:36:20,523 --> 01:36:24,734

trying to compete with Bishop Baron or

anything, but, but seriously, I thought it

: 2225

01:36:24,734 --> 01:36:28,514

was the wildcat was her failure to launch.

: 2226

01:36:29,044 --> 01:36:32,443

Jerome: That's again, that's

the beauty of writing.

: 2227

01:36:32,884 --> 01:36:35,704

Several people can read the

same thing or beauty of film.

: 2228

01:36:35,724 --> 01:36:39,384

Several people can watch the

same movie and see, well, yeah,

: 2229

01:36:39,434 --> 01:36:41,154

painting, sculpture, everything.

: 2230

01:36:41,384 --> 01:36:45,014

The beauty of art is that, you know,

no two people look at the same thing.

: 2231

01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:47,829

When they, when they view something

now, it's, it's interesting

: 2232

01:36:47,829 --> 01:36:48,719

that you mentioned racism.

: 2233

01:36:49,039 --> 01:36:53,209

So Ethan Hawke and Maya

Hawke I read this as trivia.

: 2234

01:36:53,228 --> 01:36:54,609

This is not from one of the interviews.

: 2235

01:36:54,619 --> 01:36:56,779

So if it's wrong, Ethan,

you can correct me.

: 2236

01:36:57,369 --> 01:37:01,068

What I read is that Ethan and

Maya almost abandoned this project

: 2237

01:37:01,068 --> 01:37:04,359

entirely when they came across

the letters that Flannery wrote.

: 2238

01:37:04,939 --> 01:37:09,669

When they were revealed because she

drops the n word a lot in them and while

: 2239

01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:14,398

the film depicts that everyone around

her was racist and she comes off almost

: 2240

01:37:14,429 --> 01:37:19,529

kind of innocent she rolls her eyes a

lot she's showing disgust and all this

: 2241

01:37:19,529 --> 01:37:25,898

stuff in reality she herself was not much

different than they were the difference

: 2242

01:37:25,909 --> 01:37:34,478

was so she sort of from from what I read

she felt the same way they did about

: 2243

01:37:34,834 --> 01:37:39,174

African Americans being around her, but

she still felt that they had the same,

: 2244

01:37:39,204 --> 01:37:40,564

that they should have the same rights.

: 2245

01:37:40,574 --> 01:37:46,084

She had a progressive view on

civil rights, but she herself kind

: 2246

01:37:46,084 --> 01:37:47,574

of didn't want to be around this.

: 2247

01:37:48,754 --> 01:37:49,304

You know what I mean?

: 2248

01:37:49,314 --> 01:37:54,904

Around that culture or the environment

to get around this, to keep Flannery

: 2249

01:37:54,904 --> 01:37:58,744

as a protagonist, that audiences

would root for a lot of her words.

: 2250

01:37:58,744 --> 01:38:03,844

And in some cases, direct sentences that

she wrote in her letters, they took them

: 2251

01:38:03,864 --> 01:38:05,974

out and put them in the supporting cast.

: 2252

01:38:06,784 --> 01:38:09,984

They, they had other people

say those lines when they

: 2253

01:38:09,994 --> 01:38:11,954

themselves actually came from her.

: 2254

01:38:12,364 --> 01:38:14,634

So again, although she had a progressive.

: 2255

01:38:14,949 --> 01:38:17,249

Sort of like idea about civil rights.

: 2256

01:38:17,599 --> 01:38:22,339

She wasn't personally Much

different than they were and you

: 2257

01:38:22,339 --> 01:38:23,709

know what that reminded me of?

: 2258

01:38:23,789 --> 01:38:28,499

Chris, you might remember this George

Carlin had this bit when he was

: 2259

01:38:28,499 --> 01:38:35,699

alive In my backyard Yes, yes NIMBY,

NIMBY, N I M B Y, not in my backyard.

: 2260

01:38:35,889 --> 01:38:40,334

So even if it's something you believe in

It doesn't mean you want to be around it.

: 2261

01:38:40,384 --> 01:38:41,034

You know what I mean?

: 2262

01:38:41,044 --> 01:38:43,584

And the example that

Carlin used was prisons.

: 2263

01:38:43,773 --> 01:38:47,764

He's like, everyone's always like,

build more prisons, but not here.

: 2264

01:38:47,784 --> 01:38:49,144

You know what I mean?

: 2265

01:38:49,144 --> 01:38:52,514

Like, so, that I thought

was an interesting thing.

: 2266

01:38:52,654 --> 01:38:55,474

The most interesting part of

that, though, is that they

: 2267

01:38:55,484 --> 01:38:56,824

almost abandoned this project.

: 2268

01:38:56,904 --> 01:39:00,023

They were like, we don't want, you know,

I don't know if we want to do this.

: 2269

01:39:00,634 --> 01:39:05,214

But then they came up with the

creative way of sort of like,

: 2270

01:39:06,164 --> 01:39:07,523

I don't know, misdirecting it.

: 2271

01:39:08,954 --> 01:39:13,124

Jessie: Well, I think if we're all

honest with ourselves, I mean, that's

: 2272

01:39:13,124 --> 01:39:18,193

what humanizes it as well, because

she's still a product of her culture.

: 2273

01:39:18,273 --> 01:39:18,544

Jerome: Sure.

: 2274

01:39:19,564 --> 01:39:19,844

Absolutely.

: 2275

01:39:20,064 --> 01:39:23,304

Jessie: And I think there are times

that I even, you know, like not

: 2276

01:39:23,314 --> 01:39:27,273

intentionally virtue signaling or

whatever people call that today.

: 2277

01:39:27,594 --> 01:39:30,853

But like, I believe things and

I think things and then I'll

: 2278

01:39:30,864 --> 01:39:32,884

be in a real life situation.

: 2279

01:39:33,599 --> 01:39:39,148

And I'll feel that the automatic response

I'm having is not the one I want to have.

: 2280

01:39:40,109 --> 01:39:41,259

It's the one I don't want to have.

: 2281

01:39:41,749 --> 01:39:42,619

And I have to check.

: 2282

01:39:42,639 --> 01:39:44,039

There's a check in the system.

: 2283

01:39:44,339 --> 01:39:45,999

And I'm ashamed of myself.

: 2284

01:39:46,389 --> 01:39:50,079

That the automatic response was

the thing that I don't want.

: 2285

01:39:50,619 --> 01:39:51,419

You know what I mean?

: 2286

01:39:51,709 --> 01:39:56,959

And so, and that's why I said early on,

something that's too perfect, I don't

: 2287

01:39:56,959 --> 01:39:58,318

want to have anything to do with that.

: 2288

01:39:58,589 --> 01:40:00,169

Because I know it's not true.

: 2289

01:40:00,648 --> 01:40:03,568

I know that's not true,

especially if it's about a person.

: 2290

01:40:04,249 --> 01:40:05,809

Because there isn't a single one of us.

: 2291

01:40:05,978 --> 01:40:09,789

No matter how much we want good in

the world, no matter how good we want

: 2292

01:40:09,789 --> 01:40:14,439

to be, no matter how much we try,

that doesn't have a thing in us that

: 2293

01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:17,919

rises up in us at times that scares

the shit out of every one of us.

: 2294

01:40:18,349 --> 01:40:19,209

And it's in us.

: 2295

01:40:19,559 --> 01:40:22,568

And if we can't be honest with that,

how are we ever going to reckon with it?

: 2296

01:40:22,579 --> 01:40:23,999

How are we ever going to change?

: 2297

01:40:24,409 --> 01:40:26,949

Jerome: And I think that's why, why

they still went ahead with the project.

: 2298

01:40:27,099 --> 01:40:31,619

At first thought, their thought might

have been, we might abandon this project

: 2299

01:40:31,648 --> 01:40:35,398

only because The rest of the world doesn't

always see the way the things the way

: 2300

01:40:35,398 --> 01:40:37,059

you just depicted, you know what I mean?

: 2301

01:40:37,939 --> 01:40:40,929

So he wants he wanted to tell the story.

: 2302

01:40:40,929 --> 01:40:42,269

He wanted to tell the story of Flannery.

: 2303

01:40:42,269 --> 01:40:44,879

It's a great story She's a human story.

: 2304

01:40:44,919 --> 01:40:50,799

She's an amazing writer And you know This

is a story that needed to be told as a

: 2305

01:40:50,799 --> 01:40:57,519

movie that needs to come out that people

need to see And I understand the original

: 2306

01:40:57,529 --> 01:41:02,459

fear of this other Aspect is going to

keep people from wanting to see it.

: 2307

01:41:02,509 --> 01:41:05,009

And we don't want that or become

: 2308

01:41:05,009 --> 01:41:08,068

Jessie: a barrier basically from

being able to hear anything else

: 2309

01:41:08,068 --> 01:41:12,349

past that, because unfortunately, one

thing that we are not very good at in

: 2310

01:41:12,349 --> 01:41:18,679

this culture is just being quiet and

listening long enough to find out more

: 2311

01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:21,489

Chris: in our, in our cancel culture.

: 2312

01:41:21,489 --> 01:41:26,398

I mean, you almost can't take any

historical figure And lift them up.

: 2313

01:41:26,478 --> 01:41:29,689

Because they all have something they

did or said, you know what I mean?

: 2314

01:41:30,068 --> 01:41:31,209

Jerome: And that means anybody.

: 2315

01:41:31,269 --> 01:41:32,079

Yeah, anybody.

: 2316

01:41:32,679 --> 01:41:33,849

Abraham Lincoln, he

: 2317

01:41:33,849 --> 01:41:35,049

Chris: had a dark side, right?

: 2318

01:41:35,089 --> 01:41:35,919

I mean, come on.

: 2319

01:41:35,919 --> 01:41:37,639

You know what I mean?

: 2320

01:41:37,728 --> 01:41:38,189

Who'd you say?

: 2321

01:41:38,228 --> 01:41:38,469

Who'd you say?

: 2322

01:41:38,478 --> 01:41:39,398

Abraham Lincoln.

: 2323

01:41:40,834 --> 01:41:41,284

Jerome: I'm sorry.

: 2324

01:41:41,353 --> 01:41:42,714

She was talking when you were talking.

: 2325

01:41:42,714 --> 01:41:44,064

I thought you said Hannibal Lecter.

: 2326

01:41:44,094 --> 01:41:44,894

I was like, Oh, no, no, no.

: 2327

01:41:45,124 --> 01:41:49,064

I said, Hey, Chris, Chris,

that dude's not real.

: 2328

01:41:50,244 --> 01:41:50,904

Jessie: I do.

: 2329

01:41:50,934 --> 01:41:51,603

You do.

: 2330

01:41:51,614 --> 01:41:52,454

We all do.

: 2331

01:41:52,523 --> 01:41:53,364

We all do.

: 2332

01:41:53,424 --> 01:41:54,234

We all do.

: 2333

01:41:54,654 --> 01:41:58,544

I mean, like this is, this is Jesus

saying to the people who let you, who

: 2334

01:41:58,544 --> 01:42:01,364

is, who has no sin cast the first stone.

: 2335

01:42:01,984 --> 01:42:02,624

Chris: Bring it on.

: 2336

01:42:02,624 --> 01:42:05,074

This is a story of a Catholic woman.

: 2337

01:42:05,074 --> 01:42:07,204

So like the apostle Paul.

: 2338

01:42:07,509 --> 01:42:07,839

Jessie: Yeah.

: 2339

01:42:07,929 --> 01:42:11,744

Chris: He said, I, I do the things I don't

wanna do, and I, I, the things I wanna

: 2340

01:42:11,744 --> 01:42:13,359

do, the things I wanna do, I don't do.

: 2341

01:42:13,359 --> 01:42:16,959

And, you know, so he wrestled with

that part of his human nature too.

: 2342

01:42:18,009 --> 01:42:24,344

And he wrote half the Bible, or at

least the Christian Bible . Yeah.

: 2343

01:42:24,478 --> 01:42:25,889

So, anyway, yeah.

: 2344

01:42:26,339 --> 01:42:26,669

Yeah.

: 2345

01:42:26,728 --> 01:42:29,279

Jessie: I just love the humanness

of this story, quite honestly.

: 2346

01:42:29,609 --> 01:42:30,568

Oh, I, I, I honestly.

: 2347

01:42:31,094 --> 01:42:33,514

Jerome: I really think

it's an important film.

: 2348

01:42:33,514 --> 01:42:37,474

It's a great film and

I hope it gets noticed.

: 2349

01:42:37,474 --> 01:42:42,644

I really like, like, I don't, you know,

again, it's only September today is

: 2350

01:42:42,644 --> 01:42:45,844

September 3rd for those of us that are

listening that my brother won't edit

: 2351

01:42:45,844 --> 01:42:49,174

this and put it out until February,

but it's September 3rd right now.

: 2352

01:42:49,174 --> 01:42:50,614

Chris: Boating season's almost over.

: 2353

01:42:51,924 --> 01:42:54,023

Jerome: And we don't know

what else is coming out yet.

: 2354

01:42:54,074 --> 01:42:57,273

There might be some amazing films

that come out, but right now, I don't

: 2355

01:42:57,273 --> 01:42:59,074

know if I've seen a movie this year.

: 2356

01:42:59,749 --> 01:43:02,769

That has moved me quite

as much as this one has.

: 2357

01:43:03,398 --> 01:43:05,779

So I hope, I just hope it gets recognized.

: 2358

01:43:05,849 --> 01:43:08,919

I'm not saying it has to sweep

anything, but I hope it gets recognized.

: 2359

01:43:09,059 --> 01:43:10,739

I would love to see Maya get nominated.

: 2360

01:43:10,929 --> 01:43:12,709

I'd like to see Ethan get nominated.

: 2361

01:43:12,999 --> 01:43:16,459

Again, I got my little issues with

the screenplay, but if Ethan gets

: 2362

01:43:16,469 --> 01:43:21,064

nominated for director, and Maya gets

nominated for best actress, And maybe,

: 2363

01:43:21,064 --> 01:43:23,773

you know, even throw Laura Linney in

there and Best Supporting Actress.

: 2364

01:43:24,693 --> 01:43:27,264

Like give me a Cinematography nomination.

: 2365

01:43:27,273 --> 01:43:28,844

Give me an Editing nomination.

: 2366

01:43:28,974 --> 01:43:29,614

And I'm good.

: 2367

01:43:29,654 --> 01:43:30,193

Lighting?

: 2368

01:43:30,704 --> 01:43:31,284

Best Picture?

: 2369

01:43:32,514 --> 01:43:32,754

Best Key

: 2370

01:43:32,784 --> 01:43:33,094

Jessie: Grip.

: 2371

01:43:33,124 --> 01:43:34,374

I want Best Key Grip.

: 2372

01:43:34,904 --> 01:43:36,634

Jerome: Best, Best Alright, alright.

: 2373

01:43:36,644 --> 01:43:39,784

Somebody needs to Alright,

cut her off, cut her off.

: 2374

01:43:39,943 --> 01:43:41,324

Jessie: No, I'm just teasing.

: 2375

01:43:41,334 --> 01:43:42,334

Jerome: She wants more writer's tears.

: 2376

01:43:42,634 --> 01:43:47,424

No, no, but all jokes aside, this is the

kind of movie that would snag, that could

: 2377

01:43:47,424 --> 01:43:49,964

snag a production design Oscar nomination.

: 2378

01:43:50,264 --> 01:43:51,704

A best picture nomination.

: 2379

01:43:52,554 --> 01:43:54,853

Chris: What about, would

it be original screenplay?

: 2380

01:43:55,954 --> 01:43:58,744

You struggle with the

screenplay though, but I mean.

: 2381

01:43:59,273 --> 01:44:03,294

Jerome: If it got, I struggled

with, I don't think it's.

: 2382

01:44:04,584 --> 01:44:08,474

Okay, since Ethan is

listening, Ethan, I'm sorry.

: 2383

01:44:08,523 --> 01:44:11,434

You definitely deserve a

Best Director nomination.

: 2384

01:44:11,943 --> 01:44:17,184

I don't know if I think this is one

of the best screenplays, although if

: 2385

01:44:17,193 --> 01:44:21,023

you were going to categorize it, I

think it would have to be original,

: 2386

01:44:21,054 --> 01:44:25,814

even though there's parts taken

that are adapting from real works.

: 2387

01:44:26,624 --> 01:44:32,254

It's not you know, based on any

one singular published material.

: 2388

01:44:32,324 --> 01:44:32,773

I don't know.

: 2389

01:44:32,773 --> 01:44:33,404

That'll be interesting.

: 2390

01:44:33,404 --> 01:44:37,064

Cause remember Barbie ended up getting

an adapted screenplay nomination.

: 2391

01:44:37,064 --> 01:44:37,234

Yeah.

: 2392

01:44:37,234 --> 01:44:37,864

That was weird.

: 2393

01:44:37,864 --> 01:44:38,449

Yeah.

: 2394

01:44:39,239 --> 01:44:40,389

So it's really how they play it.

: 2395

01:44:40,389 --> 01:44:42,589

I don't know how they're going to, I

don't know how they're going to present

: 2396

01:44:42,589 --> 01:44:44,289

it as an adapted or an original,

: 2397

01:44:44,669 --> 01:44:49,199

Chris: but, and again, as far as

I'm concerned, like her work was

: 2398

01:44:49,239 --> 01:44:52,009

difficult at the time to read.

: 2399

01:44:52,029 --> 01:44:54,779

It wasn't received well,

and it still isn't.

: 2400

01:44:55,068 --> 01:44:55,449

Right.

: 2401

01:44:55,509 --> 01:44:57,679

I mean, and, and I think because it's

: 2402

01:44:57,679 --> 01:45:00,818

Jerome: almost poetic then for the

critics to be split down the middle.

: 2403

01:45:00,839 --> 01:45:01,289

Exactly.

: 2404

01:45:01,519 --> 01:45:05,639

Chris: And I think, I think it, I

think it, it, it has to be this way.

: 2405

01:45:06,129 --> 01:45:06,789

You know what I mean?

: 2406

01:45:06,989 --> 01:45:07,209

Jessie: Yeah.

: 2407

01:45:07,209 --> 01:45:09,969

It almost would feel weird if

everybody was like, Oh, this is

: 2408

01:45:09,969 --> 01:45:11,089

the greatest thing we ever heard.

: 2409

01:45:11,109 --> 01:45:12,148

Chris: Everybody loved it.

: 2410

01:45:12,159 --> 01:45:13,559

Something's wrong, right?

: 2411

01:45:13,559 --> 01:45:14,519

Because then if

: 2412

01:45:14,549 --> 01:45:17,629

Jerome: everybody loved it, then we

would have, then everybody would have

: 2413

01:45:17,629 --> 01:45:21,429

been reading Flannery O'Connor 10

years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.

: 2414

01:45:21,429 --> 01:45:21,919

You know what I mean?

: 2415

01:45:23,019 --> 01:45:27,279

So I was really interested to hear

that interview with Bishop Baring

: 2416

01:45:27,279 --> 01:45:30,839

saying how much he's always been

a fan of Flannery because my thing

: 2417

01:45:30,839 --> 01:45:34,279

was the first thing I thought of was

I went to a Catholic grade school.

: 2418

01:45:34,309 --> 01:45:35,648

I went to a Catholic high school.

: 2419

01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:38,389

They didn't push Flannery at all, right?

: 2420

01:45:38,579 --> 01:45:39,039

Jessie: Yeah.

: 2421

01:45:39,049 --> 01:45:41,269

Jerome: So maybe that's

something that should be changed.

: 2422

01:45:41,659 --> 01:45:42,759

And I'm thinking

: 2423

01:45:42,779 --> 01:45:47,169

Jessie: that maybe one of her

works showed up in a short story.

: 2424

01:45:47,269 --> 01:45:47,334

I don't know.

: 2425

01:45:47,644 --> 01:45:52,844

Anthology that I read in college

because I knew her name and I had

: 2426

01:45:52,844 --> 01:45:55,954

a general idea of her writing.

: 2427

01:45:56,144 --> 01:45:59,943

Just kind of knew the time and the

place, but that's it, man, that's it.

: 2428

01:46:00,514 --> 01:46:00,904

Chris: Yeah.

: 2429

01:46:01,164 --> 01:46:02,614

Jessie: She's really

not talked about a lot.

: 2430

01:46:02,614 --> 01:46:03,804

So I'm grateful.

: 2431

01:46:03,864 --> 01:46:06,443

I mean, really rock bottom

at the end of the day.

: 2432

01:46:06,943 --> 01:46:11,154

I'm grateful that I was exposed to

another American writer that hadn't

: 2433

01:46:11,154 --> 01:46:15,314

really heard a lot about so that I

could read that work and make my own.

: 2434

01:46:15,904 --> 01:46:19,853

Like judgments or whatever, just

learn, just try to learn from it.

: 2435

01:46:20,384 --> 01:46:20,684

Jerome: Yeah.

: 2436

01:46:22,504 --> 01:46:23,314

Thank you, Ethan.

: 2437

01:46:26,154 --> 01:46:26,954

Thank you, Maya.

: 2438

01:46:27,023 --> 01:46:30,504

Jessie: He's, he's waiting for, he's

waiting for a card and some flowers here.

: 2439

01:46:30,504 --> 01:46:30,724

And

: 2440

01:46:30,724 --> 01:46:34,384

Jerome: thank you, Maya, for

seriously, one of the better

: 2441

01:46:34,384 --> 01:46:36,014

performances I've seen in a while.

: 2442

01:46:36,074 --> 01:46:36,853

Yeah, absolutely.

: 2443

01:46:37,054 --> 01:46:39,004

Jessie: So different, so unique.

: 2444

01:46:39,353 --> 01:46:42,023

And you don't see anything

unique hardly ever.

: 2445

01:46:42,103 --> 01:46:43,704

Jerome: One other little piece of trivia.

: 2446

01:46:43,874 --> 01:46:44,644

It's, it's not.

: 2447

01:46:45,154 --> 01:46:49,084

A huge thing, but Chris mentioned earlier

how she brought the project to him.

: 2448

01:46:49,443 --> 01:46:51,794

In a sense, she hired him.

: 2449

01:46:51,884 --> 01:46:52,174

Chris: Yeah.

: 2450

01:46:52,443 --> 01:46:53,564

Jerome: She's the boss.

: 2451

01:46:53,594 --> 01:46:56,693

Like, she hired her dad

to write and direct.

: 2452

01:46:56,924 --> 01:46:59,414

He mentioned at one point, he

thought it was kind of odd that he

: 2453

01:46:59,414 --> 01:47:03,023

had to go to her, like, So, like,

what do you, what do you think?

: 2454

01:47:03,023 --> 01:47:03,773

Is this gonna work?

: 2455

01:47:03,773 --> 01:47:06,853

Like, like, like, she

was the boss on the set.

: 2456

01:47:07,394 --> 01:47:10,814

As executive producer, he

was, he was a hired gun, man.

: 2457

01:47:10,824 --> 01:47:13,154

He was a hired writer

and a hired director.

: 2458

01:47:13,254 --> 01:47:13,523

Yeah.

: 2459

01:47:13,603 --> 01:47:15,744

So I thought that was kind

of a funny element there.

: 2460

01:47:16,244 --> 01:47:19,534

Jessie: And what does that say about their

relationship, that you could see that come

: 2461

01:47:19,534 --> 01:47:21,724

through in the, in the finished product?

: 2462

01:47:22,849 --> 01:47:26,029

Chris: Well, I mean, you know, I, I,

I'm, I'm biased cause I've watched

: 2463

01:47:26,029 --> 01:47:30,329

probably a dozen interviews with him

and her in the interview together.

: 2464

01:47:30,679 --> 01:47:35,419

So I've got to see a lot of

interaction between them and they

: 2465

01:47:35,419 --> 01:47:38,148

have quite an amazing father daughter.

: 2466

01:47:38,259 --> 01:47:39,549

Relationship when it comes.

: 2467

01:47:39,719 --> 01:47:45,228

And he's, I've heard him say on several

interviews that they bond over the arts.

: 2468

01:47:45,669 --> 01:47:50,609

So, you know, fathers and daughters cannot

see eye to eye on things, but they found

: 2469

01:47:50,609 --> 01:47:52,259

something that they come together on.

: 2470

01:47:52,749 --> 01:47:54,379

And it, it comes through.

: 2471

01:47:54,449 --> 01:47:55,728

I mean, it comes through in the work.

: 2472

01:47:55,759 --> 01:47:57,728

It comes through in their interviews.

: 2473

01:47:57,889 --> 01:47:59,419

Jessie: The way they

tell a story together.

: 2474

01:47:59,439 --> 01:47:59,879

Yeah.

: 2475

01:48:00,228 --> 01:48:01,539

Chris: The way they sing songs together.

: 2476

01:48:01,549 --> 01:48:01,568

Yeah.

: 2477

01:48:02,584 --> 01:48:09,904

Uh, They, like Maya is a musical artist

too, and Ethan at least did one song, a

: 2478

01:48:09,904 --> 01:48:13,044

duet that was a a Willie Nelson cover.

: 2479

01:48:13,464 --> 01:48:14,514

And it's beautiful.

: 2480

01:48:14,514 --> 01:48:17,214

I, I didn't know it was a Willie

Nelson cover when I first heard it,

: 2481

01:48:17,424 --> 01:48:20,544

but then I found myself just, I, I

kept going back to it and I'm listening

: 2482

01:48:20,544 --> 01:48:21,504

to it and then listening to it.

: 2483

01:48:21,744 --> 01:48:23,034

It's a moving song.

: 2484

01:48:23,064 --> 01:48:24,634

I I can't remember the name of it now.

: 2485

01:48:26,289 --> 01:48:28,009

Jessie: Because of the

writer's tears, babe.

: 2486

01:48:28,099 --> 01:48:28,419

Yeah.

: 2487

01:48:28,949 --> 01:48:29,818

That's the problem.

: 2488

01:48:30,689 --> 01:48:31,818

Gotta write this stuff down.

: 2489

01:48:32,929 --> 01:48:33,529

Jerome: Anyways.

: 2490

01:48:34,719 --> 01:48:39,994

I just want to say I want to thank

Jessi again for joining us, since this

: 2491

01:48:39,994 --> 01:48:41,943

is our first time we've had a guest.

: 2492

01:48:42,914 --> 01:48:44,894

Jessie: Am I ever going

to be able to come back?

: 2493

01:48:45,134 --> 01:48:45,994

Jerome: No way!

: 2494

01:48:46,094 --> 01:48:48,044

I think, you were terrible!

: 2495

01:48:48,064 --> 01:48:50,467

You were absolutely terrible!

: 2496

01:48:50,467 --> 01:48:52,874

Jessie: You're terrible!

: 2497

01:48:52,874 --> 01:48:53,443

Listen,

: 2498

01:48:53,523 --> 01:48:55,224

Jerome: I'm absolutely joking.

: 2499

01:48:55,254 --> 01:48:55,904

The whole point

: 2500

01:48:58,074 --> 01:49:01,264

we agreed to this and wanted

you on because we knew that

: 2501

01:49:01,273 --> 01:49:02,554

you would give insight.

: 2502

01:49:03,784 --> 01:49:10,044

Wildcat that I I don't want to say that

my brother and I wouldn't give Certainly

: 2503

01:49:10,094 --> 01:49:14,384

I couldn't get, I know Chris could

probably talk all day about this, but we

: 2504

01:49:14,384 --> 01:49:19,994

wanted to get some outside perspective on

something outside of just a movie review.

: 2505

01:49:20,504 --> 01:49:21,984

So we were glad to have you on.

: 2506

01:49:21,984 --> 01:49:24,414

We knew this was a personal

project for you, Ethan.

: 2507

01:49:24,414 --> 01:49:25,353

I know you're still listening.

: 2508

01:49:25,353 --> 01:49:26,074

This was a purpose.

: 2509

01:49:26,374 --> 01:49:28,114

This was a personal project for Jessie.

: 2510

01:49:28,364 --> 01:49:31,764

So since she already was on that

conference call, you should probably hit

: 2511

01:49:31,764 --> 01:49:34,584

her up and in the meantime, check out.

: 2512

01:49:35,279 --> 01:49:37,728

Silver Screen Happy

Hours, Ethan Hawke Day.

: 2513

01:49:38,228 --> 01:49:41,589

Where we talk about two of your

films where you're the lead and you

: 2514

01:49:41,589 --> 01:49:43,099

get credited as supporting actor.

: 2515

01:49:43,489 --> 01:49:44,169

Alright, anyway.

: 2516

01:49:45,199 --> 01:49:45,579

Okay.

: 2517

01:49:46,249 --> 01:49:49,189

Chris: That's where we landed

the plane on this long episode.

: 2518

01:49:49,559 --> 01:49:50,818

Thanks for hanging with us.

: 2519

01:49:50,978 --> 01:49:52,079

We'd love to hear from you.

: 2520

01:49:52,398 --> 01:49:53,919

Look us up on our socials.

: 2521

01:49:54,299 --> 01:49:57,839

And stay tuned for the part two

of this episode where we will

: 2522

01:49:57,839 --> 01:50:00,169

break down Stranger Than Fiction.

: 2523

01:50:00,559 --> 01:50:03,489

As I always like to say, go

support your local cinema.