Episode 7

Silence of the Midsommar Part 2

-EXPLICIT CONTENT-

Jerome and Chris discuss two of their favorite horror movies: Silence of the Lambs (1991) and Midsommar (2019). In Silence of the Midsommar - Part One, Midsommar was mainly covered. In this episode, Silence of the Lambs takes the front seat. They explore the similarities and differences between these films, and how they both deal with themes of trauma, identity, and transformation. They also analyze the characters, the plot, the cinematography, the music, and the symbolism of these films, and share their personal stories and opinions about them.

They also play a game of six degrees of separation, where they try to connect two actors from these films through other movies they have been in. They challenge each other with Isabel Grill, who played Maja in Midsommar, and Charles Napier, who played Lt. Boyle in Silence of the Lambs. They manage to find a connection between them in five degrees, using some obscure and recent movies. Can you connect them in less? Remember, they can't use either movie from the show!

This episode is full of spoilers, insights, trivia, humor, and passion for these films. It's a must-listen for any horror fan or movie lover. It's also a very long episode, so it's split into two parts. The first part covers Silence of the Lambs, and the second part covers Midsommar. You can listen to them separately or together, depending on your preference.

If you enjoyed listening, please leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify, or email us at cheers@silverscreenhappyhour.com We would love to hear your feedback and comments.

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EMAIL: cheers@silverscreenhappyhour.com

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Transcript
Jerome:

Alright, let's cut all this out, because we're losing

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my brother in a heart attack.

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Chris: Oh my god.

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Holy shit.

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Yeah, you have to take

this, because I can't.

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Oh my God.

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Jerome: So is this gonna be the thing

we use at the commercial for this show?

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.

Chris: Just fricking dying during a horror movie.

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What the hell are we talking about?

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Alright, you are definitely gonna

have to listen ahead to find out

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what the heck we were laughing about.

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This episode will go down in

history as the episode where

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my brother nearly killed me.

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Before we jump in I just wanted

to address a couple things.

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A few episodes ago you heard us talking

about doing something on Clubhouse.

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That's been put on hold because Clubhouse

had this whole revamp of their app

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and it's, it's kind of a mess so I

don't know that we're gonna do it.

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If we do we will let you know.

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Keep, uh, keep listening and keep

watching our social media feeds.

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In other news, we're doing

some experimentation with

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video, so be on the lookout.

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We're going to be doing some

video for our social and possibly

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turn this into a video podcast.

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So I'm excited about it.

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Hopefully that'll be something we'll

be able to launch after the new year.

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Well, that's all the time

I'm going to take here.

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I'm going to get the film reel

going so you can listen to our show.

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And while I do, let me just ask you, if

you're enjoying it, please share it with

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someone and let us know that you did.

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All right.

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We are back to the

Silver Screen Happy Hour.

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This is part two of

Silence of the Midsommar.

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Jerome: So, if you haven't listened

to part one yet, you should,

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because we, uh, started drinking

at the beginning of that show.

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Chris: So this is going to be interesting

because I just started my third one.

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And, and, I mean, you know, I mean,

it's not like, I didn't drink three in

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an hour, you know, we've been here a

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long time.

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Jerome: Now, I tried a bottle

of Chianti in honor of Hannibal

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Lecter, and I didn't like it at all.

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I'm almost done with the bottle.

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Chris: He's getting

ready to switch to beer.

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This is not

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going to be a good night for you, Jer.

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Jerome: I have beer backups.

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I have children.

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Chris: I told him, don't switch.

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Don't mix wine and beer.

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Jerome: Oh, that stuff doesn't affect me.

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You know our bloodline.

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Come on.

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Chris: The bloodline.

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The bloodline that's, uh .15.

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Jerome: Yeah, exactly.

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You drink my...

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When mosquitoes bite me, they get

pulled over for drunk driving.

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Chris: They just crash.

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Jerome: They fucking

crash into trees and shit.

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That's what happens.

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When mosquitoes suck my blood.

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Chris: Holy crap, let's get this on track.

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Jerome: So if you're joining us

now, we were in the middle of

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Chris: Silence of the Lambs is

going to be the best one yet,

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because we're both half in the bag.

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Jerome: And not only that, it's my

so those of you who have listened

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to my podcast, you already know how

I feel about this movie, alright?

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I'm going to say it again for those

who are listening for the first time.

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Which, if you're listening for

the first time, stop and go

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back to part one of the show.

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So you can hear us talk about Midsommar.

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Oh my god.

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But, here we are.

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Chris: Brace yourself.

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It's such a rough movie, but

from a, uh, filmmakers, I'm not a

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filmmaker, but I'm a film appreciator.

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From a, I mean, a filmmaking point

of view, it was frickin genius.

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Jerome: Yes, it's phenomenal.

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Chris: But it was so hard

to watch, so, anyway.

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Jerome: It's phenomenal.

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Chris: We're about to move on to

the next movie that we intended

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to do in the last episode.

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And, uh,

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Jerome: Yes!

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Uh, so.

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Chris: You may never, ever

have heard of it, um, you know.

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Jerome: It's, it's a little scene,

little known of film from:

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Silence of the Lambs, which by contrast

to Midsommar, Won five Academy Awards.

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And it's the last.

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Chris: It was recognized in it's day.

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Jerome: Yes, it won Best Picture, Best

Director, Best Actor, Best Actress.

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The last to win the four top.

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And then it also won Best Screenplay.

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Now, we did our podcast on, um,

Everything, Everywhere, All at Once.

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And I remember saying that it's more

Oscar decorated than Silence of the Lambs.

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And it's true, because it

won three acting categories.

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Now, it wasn't Best Picture, Best

Director, Actor, and Actress.

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But it was Best Picture,

Best Actor, Best Actress...

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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Ugh, God, the wine is getting to me.

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Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress,

and then Best Supporting Actor and

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Best Supporting Actress on top of it.

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And Screenplay!

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So, so I remember, I remember saying

on our podcast then, if you haven't

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listened to it, listen to that too.

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Our Everything Everywhere, All Is One

podcast, which we dedicated an entire

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show to that one too, didn't we?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, um, that was more highly decorated

than Silence of the Lambs, but until that

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film, Silence of the Lambs was considered,

in our lifetime anyway, the most, I mean,

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depending on how old you are, 1975's One

Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, won Best

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Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best

Actress, and then you gotta go all the

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way back to the way What did we say?

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Was it 1941?

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Mm.

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Or something like that?

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Uh, or, or 1938 or something?

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It happened one night with, uh,

Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert.

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Best picture, best director,

best actor, best actress.

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Only three films have done it.

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Silence of the Lambs is the last to do it.

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And it inspired me to be a writer.

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So before we get on to the story,

I'm going to tell you, I'm going

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to tell you a smaller story.

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I don't know if I told this

on a previous podcast, but we

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definitely earned it today.

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My fri I was, uh, 15 years old.

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Hadn't yet turned 16.

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This is 1991, early.

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This is February.

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By the way, Silence of the Lambs

was, was released on Valentine's Day.

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Of 1991.

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Again, let me illustrate the, the

date movie nature of this film.

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Chris: You're right.

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Oh my god.

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Jerome: So it had been out.

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Very briefly, I want to say maybe a

week had gone by, and my friends were

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like, Dude, let's go see this movie.

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And I had no intention of seeing it.

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Now, keep in mind, I had not seen

any billboards, I had not seen any

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trailers, I had not seen any TV

spots, I knew nothing about it.

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I thought it was about farming.

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I thought it was another boring ass,

three hour movie, like, out of Africa.

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And I'm like, Silence of the Lambs?

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No, I don't want to see that.

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No, I don't.

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Not that.

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That doesn't sound interesting at all.

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And my friends are like, oh

come on, we gotta go see it.

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So a bunch of us went in a couple

different cars and we all went to

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the Showcase Cinema back then on,

what was it, 15 Mile in Van Dyke?

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In Warren?

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Was it 15 or 16?

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It was 15, wasn't it?

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No, it was 15 Mile, yeah.

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15 Mile in Van Dyke.

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Showcase Cinema.

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Oh boy!

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So, uh, it's not there anymore, is it?

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Chris: They tore that shit down.

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No, it's another theater, but

it's not in the same spot.

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They tore it down and started over.

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Jerome: Wait, it was

Sterling Heights, not Warren.

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Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Right?

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Yep.

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I also saw True Romance.

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Yeah.

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At that theater.

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Jerome: You know what's funny?

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I was with a friend of mine in

the theater, and I saw the big

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billboard for True Romance.

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And I, and I, I think it was you

that told me how good it was.

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Oh, hell yeah.

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And I said...

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We gotta go see that, that looks awesome.

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And it was Christian Slater and,

and, uh, Patricia Arquette laying, it

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was a, it was a, like a banner sign.

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Yeah.

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And they're laying on top of each other.

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And it says, True Romance.

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And my friend goes, What?

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I'm not watching that movie with you.

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Now, let me preface this by

saying, back then we used slurs

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that are not acceptable today.

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Chris: Yeah, right, right, right.

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Jerome: He called me a few of

those slurs for wanting to go see

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what he perceived to be a romance.

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This film with him and I'm like, and I

was like, no, no, you got it all wrong.

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This is like an action film.

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So okay.

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So there it is.

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Chris: It happened a lot because it was

funny when I went alone and then it's

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also funny, like is it a date movie?

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I mean, could you imagine all the

date people that went on dates?

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Hey, your romance movie.

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Let's go watch it.

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Jerome: Look.

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Chris: Oh, you emptied the bottle.

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Jerome: The, the, the, the Chianti,

which again, if you weren't listening

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to the first part of this, this was

a $5.97 clearance bottle of Chianti

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at CVS Pharmacy, and I took the first

sip and I thought I was going to die.

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Because I'm not a wine drinker, and

this is a cheap ass version of a

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wine, and here it is, my last glass.

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Chris: It was only three glasses, right?

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Jerome: There's four.

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Chris: Oh, okay.

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You got a heavy pour there.

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Jerome: I can't My heart is like,

okay, red wine's good for us,

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but you're overdoing it, sir.

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You're overdoing it.

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All right, so we're

getting way off topic here.

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So I went to it out, but we'll go for it.

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Showcase Cinema To see Sons of Lambs

with my friends, had no intention

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of seeing it, didn't want to see

it, didn't know what it was about.

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They dragged me into this thing, and

you know what the funny thing is?

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I have since texted friends of mine.

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Or emailed them through, uh,

Messenger, Facebook Messenger,

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And said, I have this vivid memory

of this, but for the life of

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me I can't remember who it was.

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Was it you?

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Was it you?

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And my friends were all

like, I, I don't think so.

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And then one friend was like, yeah

that sounds like something I would do.

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So here's what happened.

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So, we go and we watch the movie.

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Yeah.

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I am just balls in, right?

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Just all, I am just

enthralled, just dialed.

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We get out of the theater, the credits

go, and we get out, and back at that

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time, everybody wanted to go to National

Coney Island on Van Dyke, right?

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That's where you went after a movie to

eat, you know, the gyro sandwiches or the

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honeys, the chicken honeys or whatever.

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And everyone's like, yeah, let's go to

National, that's just what we called

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it, National, let's go to National.

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I was like, I gotta

watch this movie again.

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I'm going back in line.

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And I'm buying a ticket for the next show.

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Chris: That's amazing.

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Jerome: And I'm watching this again, and

I had no ride like I, like I had no car.

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I should say I had no car.

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You're like, I'll figure it out.

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. There was like three cars

among seven or eight of us.

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Right?

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. And one of my friends said,

you know what, fuck it.

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I'll stay.

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I'll watch it.

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I'll drive you home . So I can't even

remember who it was that I was with.

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That's crazy, huh.

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But, but anyway, we

stayed for another show.

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We watched another showing of

Silence of the Lambs back to back.

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Chris: Yeah, that's amazing.

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Jerome: And when I left

the theater that night...

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I went home knowing I had decided at that

point at 15 years old, by the way, for

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anyone that's saying how did you get into

the movie, back then in Michigan, nobody

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carded for movies, okay, if you looked

like you were 18, if you looked like you

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were in high school, you got into the

movie, okay, there was no carding, nobody

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carded back then, nobody gave a shit.

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Chris: I didn't realize

you were that young.

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Jerome: I was 15 years old.

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And at that point, I knew I wanted

something to do with the movies,

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and I wanted to be a writer.

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Like, that's, that's, that was the movie,

this is the movie that inspired me.

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People always ask me all the

time, what's your favorite movie?

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I always say Star Wars, because it is.

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But then I always stop

and say, wait, wait, wait.

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The movie that inspired me to be a writer?

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Was Silence of the Lambs.

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This movie has certain I have a special

place in my heart for this movie.

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So I was excited for this day.

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We wasted a lot of time building up to it.

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But, fuck, if you're gonna hear it,

you gotta know everything, right?

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So, um, ha,ha,ha, where

the fuck do we begin?

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Alright, so, we always talk

about writing structure.

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By the way, this film won

Best Adapted Screenplay.

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It was adapted from the

:

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Okay.

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For anyone that doesn't know the history

of this character, Thomas Harris, the

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novel writer, wrote several books.

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One of them was called Red Dragon,

which got made in the 80s into a film

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called Manhunter by Michael Mann.

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If you know the name Michael Mann, you

know that he is the creator of Miami Vice.

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And did movies like

Collateral with Tom Cruise.

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He's a very stylized director and

he turned Red Dragon into Manhunter,

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which was in Miami Vice version

of Hannibal Lecter, Brian Cox

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played Hannibal Lecter in the film.

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In fact, I even want to say

that Lecter, the name Lecter

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was misspelled in the credits.

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There was a K in there instead of a C.

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Um, and, but pretty graphic,

pretty graphic, uh, film.

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Did fairly well at the box office.

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But until the success of Silence

of the Lambs, the movie that we're

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about to talk about, all of a sudden

there was an all new found love.

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For this, they ended up remaking Red

Dragon, as Red Dragon, with, uh, Rafe,

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Rafe Fiennes as the murderer, and,

uh, Edward Norton played the cop.

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Now, Red Dragon's very similar to Sounds

of Lambs as far as story, but Hannibal

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Lecter remained Hannibal Lecter, and they

got Anthony Hopkins to reprise his role.

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He, of course, then was

in the sequel, Hannibal.

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In fact, I want to say Hannibal

came out first, before Red Dragon.

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Hannibal came out first.

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Hannibal was the sequel, the direct

sequel to Silence of the Lambs.

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They couldn't get Jodie Foster.

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And they couldn't get Jonathan Demme.

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Um, so I think they got, uh, Ridley

Scott directed Hannibal, and they got

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Julianne Moore to play Clary Starling.

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Um, but they did get Anthony Hopkins.

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And, uh, while Hannibal is very,

very interesting, on the edge of your

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seat thriller, I'm going to mention

something later about Ray Liotto,

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who's in that film, is forced to eat

his own brains by Hannibal Lecter.

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I'm going to mention that in a minute.

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Um, um.

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That's sequel Hannibal and the

Edward Norton film Red Dragon.

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And now they've made TV

series about Hannibal.

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It has spawned off into

an entire franchise.

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Chris: Yeah, I haven't followed

any of that stuff, but...

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Jerome: Yeah, it's all very good.

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It's all interesting.

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But nothing comes close

to Silence of the Lambs.

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So, the 1991 film Silence of the

Lambs is really the pinnacle.

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I think it's the best film of the 90s.

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It's one of, in my opinion,

the greatest films of all time.

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Which, you hear me right now,

and it's not the Chianti talking.

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Hannibal Lecter's escape scene is

up there with the baptism scene

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of the Godfather as one of the

greatest scene sequences of all time.

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If you have not seen this film...

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You have to.

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You have to.

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You have to see this film.

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If you've seen The Godfather,

you have to see Silence of the

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Lambs and Hannibal Lecter's

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Chris: and by the way,

there's going to be spoilers.

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I mean, if you haven't seen it by now...

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Jerome: Sorry, can't do nothing for ya.

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Pause it.

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Go watch it.

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I mean, come on.

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It's about time.

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If you haven't seen it, shame on you!

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My God!

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The film is a marvel.

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But anyway, okay, so, we talk, again,

we talked about this with Midsommar.

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Basic screenwriting.

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And this is, this is another one of

the things I love about this script.

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We've talked before on another

podcast where I said, uh, Know the

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rules before you break them, right?

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Uh, when we trashed that Mel Gibson movie.

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Uh, right?

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What the fuck was that movie called?

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On the Radio?

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Chris: On the Line.

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Jerome: So, On the Line.

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God, what a terrible movie.

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I don't remember.

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Chris: There's two of them, right?

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No, I'm confused.

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Jerome: Um, anyway, I

think it's On the Line.

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Uh, we talked about how they

break screenwriting rules,

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but not in a good way, right?

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They break them because

they're just terrible.

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Silence of the Lambs, uh, follows

that theory that you have to

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know the rules before you break

them, which means that you're not

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necessarily breaking them, you're just

shifting them a little bit, right?

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Midsommar does the same thing.

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So we always talk about the beginning

when you open a film, you see your

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main character at work, at home, at

play, whatever, you set up their normal

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life before something crazy happens.

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Midsommar flips that.

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The movie opens with tragedy,

and then, uh, Silence of the

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Lambs does the same thing.

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It opens with, uh, and again, she's on the

training course at, in Quantico, Virginia,

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she's an FBI, uh, trainee, right?

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And she gets pulled off the course

to go meet with Jack Crawford,

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who's played by Scott Glenn.

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And right off the bat, he

sends her on this errand to

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go interview Hannibal Lecter.

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Now, we haven't known her at all.

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We haven't met her.

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We don't know anything about her.

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Five fucking minutes in, and she's

meeting with Hannibal Lecter.

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Like, we don't even know.

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We're caught off guard, like, right

off the bat, like, Holy shit, this

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can't be act two already, is it?

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No, no, no, no, no.

385

:

They're just...

386

:

Reshifting the standards

of screenwriting, right?

387

:

They don't give you a chance to relax.

388

:

And both Midsommar and Silence of the

Lambs do this for that exact purpose.

389

:

They don't want the audience

to feel comfortable yet.

390

:

It sets the tone of uncomfortable

to start the movie off.

391

:

Because if there's anything

more uncomfortable...

392

:

Then Clarice's meeting

with Hannibal Lecter.

393

:

Tell me what it is because I don't know.

394

:

Chris: And you find out in those

first few minutes there's a

395

:

serial killer on the loose also.

396

:

Yes.

397

:

That they want to solve that crime.

398

:

Jerome: Trivia.

399

:

Chris: And that's basically why

she's going to see Hannibal Lecter.

400

:

Jerome: I have trivia for you.

401

:

Yeah.

402

:

When Clarice goes into

Jack Crawford's office.

403

:

Uh, Crawford played by Scott Glenn.

404

:

He's not there yet.

405

:

She's waiting for him.

406

:

She turns around and she sees

all the pictures on the wall.

407

:

She sees news clippings.

408

:

The camera zooms or, or, or kind of

like pulls down where you see all

409

:

these photos and you see a newspaper

clipping on the wall with a big

410

:

headline that says, bill Skin's fifth.

411

:

Have you read the article?

412

:

Chris: No.

413

:

Jerome: You can, because

the camera's close enough.

414

:

So if you pause it, you

can read the article.

415

:

Oh, it has nothing to do

with h uh, Buffalo Bill.

416

:

Chris: Really?

417

:

Jerome: You know what it ha

you know what it has to do with

418

:

Chris: what?

419

:

Jerome: Hannibal Lecter.

420

:

Chris: Oh, weird.

421

:

Jerome: It says Bill Skins 5th, but the

entire article is about Lecter's arrest.

422

:

And it ends with a quote Lecter

gave prosecutors as he was being

423

:

handcuffed and shackled off.

424

:

Something about, the truth will come

out, these are all lies, bon appétit.

425

:

Chris: Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.

426

:

Jerome: So, next time

you watch Sons of Lambs,

427

:

pause it and read that article.

428

:

It has nothing to do with Buffalo Bill.

429

:

And the funny thing is, at the

end of the movie, that clipping

430

:

is in Buffalo Bill's basement.

431

:

Chris: That's wild.

432

:

Jerome: But the headline is

Bill Skins Fifth, and that's

433

:

what audience members see.

434

:

Right?

435

:

That's what we see as an audience.

436

:

Chris: Yeah, we don't read it.

437

:

Jerome: We assume it's another

article about Buffalo Bill.

438

:

Chris: Yeah, we're not gonna read it.

439

:

Yeah.

440

:

Until we get the technology to pause it.

441

:

Jerome: Right.

442

:

So the information is that Buffalo

Bill is a serial killer on the loose.

443

:

And, Hannibal Lecter is known as

"Hannibal the Cannibal", because

444

:

he killed people and ate them.

445

:

And he's in custody, he's been

in custody for eight years.

446

:

And, Clarice Starling is a trainee at

the FBI Academy, and Jack Crawford sends

447

:

her on this errand to interview Lecter.

448

:

I have to tell you that right off the

bat, the first five minutes in, Jack

449

:

Crawford is very brilliant in this move.

450

:

And he knows that Lecter

knows Buffalo Bill.

451

:

There is no evidence of that.

452

:

But I believe it to be true because

something that, uh, he says.

453

:

Jack Crawford tells her, if he's, I

don't expect him to cooperate with you.

454

:

But if he doesn't, check around his cell.

455

:

Is he drawing?

456

:

Is he sketching?

457

:

If he is, what's he sketching?

458

:

He tells her that flat out.

459

:

And then he drops the

theme of the movie on her.

460

:

Are you ready for the theme?

461

:

Be very careful with Hannibal Lecter.

462

:

Do not tell him anything personal.

463

:

Believe me, Starling, you do not want

Hannibal Lecter inside your head.

464

:

He lays that on her in

the first five minutes.

465

:

What the fuck does she do

for the rest of the movie?

466

:

Chris: Right?

467

:

I know, right?

468

:

Jerome: So, but what's, but

what, but let's set this up.

469

:

What's her tangible goal?

470

:

Her tangible goal is to just,

I just want to be involved.

471

:

She even says that later in the film.

472

:

I just want to be in on it, that's all.

473

:

You know what I mean?

474

:

Like, I just want to be a part of it.

475

:

I just want to help.

476

:

But we all know her spiritual

goal, which she does not know

477

:

she needs, is to be the hero.

478

:

If you would have told Clary Starling in

the beginning of the film, you're going

479

:

to be the hero that catches Buffalo Bill

and saves the girls, she would have been

480

:

like, you know what, I'm just a trainee.

481

:

I don't, I am not, I'm not

equipped to even be near that.

482

:

Right.

483

:

That's her spiritual goal.

484

:

Right.

485

:

Right?

486

:

Her tangible goal is, I just want to,

dude, this is good for my graduation.

487

:

This looks good on my resume.

488

:

I just want to be involved.

489

:

I just want to help.

490

:

I want to help, you know, bridge the

gap and maybe do some good or whatever.

491

:

That's her tangible goal.

492

:

So we get into the, again,

like I said, the first 5 10

493

:

minutes she goes to meet Lecter.

494

:

And what does she say when

she sees his sketchings?

495

:

She says, uh, Do you draw

all these pictures, doctor?

496

:

And he says, That's the Duomo

seen from the Belvedere.

497

:

You know Florence?

498

:

That's what he says to her.

499

:

Two major pieces of information

if you're not paying attention.

500

:

Right.

501

:

Buffalo Bill lives in Belvedere, Ohio.

502

:

So he's telling her right off the bat.

503

:

He's just giving her a little clue.

504

:

This thing I painted is from the

Belved is seen from the Belvedere.

505

:

Buffalo Bills and Belvedere Ohio.

506

:

Next thing, if you've seen

the sequel, after he escapes,

507

:

he goes to Florence, Italy.

508

:

So only she would know that.

509

:

Right?

510

:

He gives her that piece of information.

511

:

Basically saying, if I ever get the fuck

out of here, this is where I'm going.

512

:

We haven't even met him yet!

513

:

We don't know anything

about him that much, really.

514

:

We don't know anything about her, but

in the first ten minutes, he's given

515

:

us this information, left and right.

516

:

Like Midsommar, Silence of

the Lambs is a movie you gotta

517

:

watch more than once because you

pick up on all this shit later.

518

:

Yeah, you pick up on all this shit later.

519

:

So, um, so then, there's

the real horrific scene.

520

:

Much like Midsommar.

521

:

The opening of this

film is very disturbing.

522

:

Yeah.

523

:

The interview doesn't go well.

524

:

She tries to, she tries to push him

around and muscle him a little bit.

525

:

Of course, he turns to stone and gives

her his famous, you know, fava beans and,

526

:

uh, you know, I ate, uh, I ate his liver

with the fava beans and nice Chianti.

527

:

And then he just shuts down.

528

:

Then he just shuts down.

529

:

He says, you fly back to

school now, Agent Starling.

530

:

Chris: I got the acting, though.

531

:

I mean...

532

:

Jerome: Yes.

533

:

Chris: Hands down.

534

:

So they, they deserve, I agree, they,

so this is one of those boring podcasts

535

:

where they just agree with each other.

536

:

I mean, this isn't, you know, cable TV.

537

:

We're not going to be yelling

at each other on this one.

538

:

I mean, for real.

539

:

Jerome: But, but for a reason, right?

540

:

Like for a reason.

541

:

Oh my god.

542

:

Um, uh, God, I don't

even know where to begin.

543

:

So, funny thing about that.

544

:

Anthony Hopkins is on screen, I

think, on screen for about 21 minutes.

545

:

And he wins Best Actor.

546

:

Yeah.

547

:

Like, that's amazing.

548

:

Now, but you can say, well, even

when he's not on screen, his

549

:

presence looms large, right?

550

:

Like, even when he's not on

frame, they're talking about him.

551

:

Yeah.

552

:

Or they're afraid of him, or what,

like, his, his presence is there.

553

:

It reminds me of, I think

I've told you this story.

554

:

We might have talked about

it on a previous podcast.

555

:

I don't know.

556

:

But if it's redundant, maybe

for the listeners, it isn't.

557

:

Um, when we're, uh.

558

:

Ricardo Montalban was first approached

in being in the Star Trek sequel,

559

:

Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan.

560

:

At the time, Ricardo Montalban was

one of the biggest stars in the world

561

:

because he was on Fantasy Island.

562

:

Right.

563

:

Which was the biggest

show on TV at the time.

564

:

Chris: I loved it.

565

:

Jerome: Yeah.

566

:

That plane, that plane.

567

:

Chris: Tattoo.

568

:

Jerome: He, he was one of

the biggest stars of the, in

569

:

the world in the early 80s.

570

:

Yeah, right.

571

:

And he was like, uh, a Star Trek sequel?

572

:

And they're like, but, but you were

in, you know, because the episode

573

:

that you were in back in the 60s.

574

:

Oh yeah.

575

:

They wanted, they picked that

to do a direct sequel of.

576

:

So, you would be reprising

your character of Khan.

577

:

And he said, well, I don't know.

578

:

So he reads the script, and he

says, I don't want to do it.

579

:

And his manager's like, What, what

do you mean you don't want to do it?

580

:

This is Star Trek, man!

581

:

This is one of the, this is

going to be a huge movie!

582

:

Right after the success of Star

Wars, See, you know, this is big.

583

:

Chris: This is an actor's dream

to get that handed to him.

584

:

Jerome: This is an actor's dream!

585

:

And he said, I don't want to do

it because I'm not in it enough.

586

:

He said, I'm only in a few scenes.

587

:

Right.

588

:

And again, right now,

nobody would ever say, no.

589

:

Actor would say that normally.

590

:

Chris: That's amazing.

591

:

Jerome: But when you're

the biggest star Yeah.

592

:

On TV at the time,

593

:

Chris: just think what they would've

made if he wouldn't have done that.

594

:

Jerome: Jack Nicholson

did this for The Departed.

595

:

He told Scorsese, I don't want to

do it because I'm not in it enough.

596

:

So Scorsese said, okay, I've got to

rewrite it to where he's in it more.

597

:

Chris: Well, Wrath of Kahn

would have been just a turd.

598

:

Jerome: Yes, absolutely.

599

:

Chris: If they would have

made it the other way.

600

:

Jerome: An absolute turd.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

But his agent said, read it again.

603

:

Chris: Wait, what movies

are we talking about?

604

:

Jerome: Wait, wait, I'm gonna get

to the end of this little anecdote.

605

:

You know we go off on

tangents on these podcasts.

606

:

so, his agent says, Read it again.

607

:

Read it again.

608

:

So he reads it again,

and he agrees to do it.

609

:

And what he said in the interview,

what changed his mind, was that

610

:

yes, he's only in a few scenes.

611

:

But when he's not on screen,

they're talking about him.

612

:

Yeah.

613

:

And he's like, that's

what won it over for me.

614

:

He's like, I, I, as an actor,

I usually just thumb to the

615

:

pages that I'm in, right?

616

:

Right.

617

:

The highlighted pages that you're on.

618

:

He said, when I read the script entirety,

I realized that even when I wasn't

619

:

on screen, they're talking about me.

620

:

Yeah, hell yeah.

621

:

Right?

622

:

You're the character.

623

:

Yeah, he's like, I had a complete

cloud over this whole film.

624

:

So that's when he agreed to do it.

625

:

Same thing kind of here.

626

:

Silence of the Lambs, Andy

Hopkins wins Best Actor.

627

:

He's only on the screen 21 minutes.

628

:

But his presence looms large.

629

:

Chris: It's a good comparison.

630

:

Jerome: You know what I mean?

631

:

Over the whole film.

632

:

When you hear that, you're

like, 21 minutes, that's it?

633

:

If you've seen Silence of the

Lambs, you're like, surely he's

634

:

in it for more than 21 minutes.

635

:

He's not.

636

:

But you think he is.

637

:

Yeah.

638

:

Because he looms large

over the whole damn film!

639

:

Chris: Well, so he technically is.

640

:

Jerome: Technically he is.

641

:

Chris: His character is in the film, yeah.

642

:

Jerome: The whole damn time, yes.

643

:

So, okay, so, uh, so then we talk

about that script structure where they

644

:

start with something crazy and then

they go into at work at Play at Home.

645

:

You see Clarice and her

regular day of life, right?

646

:

She's training at the

academy, nothing spectacular.

647

:

She's at the library

writing up her report.

648

:

Oh, we skipped over the traumatic

thing about the, the interview ending.

649

:

The cellmate next to Lecter...

650

:

Chris: Oh, come on, man.

651

:

I don't even want to talk about this.

652

:

It was so gross.

653

:

Jerome: Jerks off into his hand

and throws it at Clarice's face.

654

:

Chris: Yeah.

655

:

Jerome: And by the way...

656

:

Chris: Wait, actually...

657

:

He didn't just throw it at her face.

658

:

It was a bullseye!

659

:

Jerome: That's what I was gonna say!

660

:

Not only did he attempt,

He fucking nailed it!

661

:

Like, right on her cheek!

662

:

If I tried to throw cum at anything, I'm

likely to miss 99 percent of the time.

663

:

Not that I've tried!

664

:

Alright, let's cut all this out, because

we're losing my brother in a heart attack.

665

:

Chris: Oh my god!

666

:

Jerome: I might miss 99 percent of

the time, but Migs nails a bullseye!

667

:

It gets her right in the face!

668

:

Chris: Holy shit, yeah you have

to take this because I can't.

669

:

Oh my god.

670

:

Jerome: So...

671

:

Is this going to be the thing we

use at the commercial for this show?

672

:

Chris: Just us freaking dying...

673

:

during a horror movie!

674

:

What the hell are we talking about?

675

:

Oh my god.

676

:

Jerome: Alright, back to normal here.

677

:

Chris: But that scene was so disturbing,

I mean, you animating it though, it

678

:

just put me over the edge, holy shit.

679

:

Jerome: Okay, then she, then we see her

at at work, at home, at play, you know

680

:

she's working out and she's in training

at the academy and there's things that

681

:

she's learning and stuff and they show

her at at the library investigating,

682

:

and then there's the call from Crawford.

683

:

And he says, okay, I read your

report, but he mentioned somebody.

684

:

Did you follow up?

685

:

That leads her to the storage unit

where she finds the head in the bottle.

686

:

Okay.

687

:

Here's where we get to our

first turning point because

688

:

she goes to see Lecter again.

689

:

And they have a little interesting

conversation between each other.

690

:

But he says to her, I'm offering

you a psychological profile, Buffalo

691

:

Bill, based on the case evidence.

692

:

Now, he hints that he wants to

deal out of this without saying it.

693

:

When he first gets up, she's

already been given clues.

694

:

He tells her, It's a fledgling killer's

first attempt at transformation.

695

:

She's like, what transformation?

696

:

And what fledgling killer?

697

:

Is this Buffalo Bill you're talking about?

698

:

You know what I mean?

699

:

Like, she, he's already given her

clues, and he just starts ignoring

700

:

her after that, and he says, I've

been in this room for eight years

701

:

now, Clarice, and I know they'll

never ever let me out while I'm alive.

702

:

What I want is a window.

703

:

I want a view where I can

see trees or even water.

704

:

You know what I mean?

705

:

He's telling her what he wants.

706

:

So he's already laying it down,

and fucking Tom, um, Howard

707

:

Shore's score, the musical score,

starts to kick up at that time.

708

:

It's such a great scene.

709

:

And she knows, she gets up, and she

goes, and he goes, uh, you know,

710

:

I'll help you catch him, Clarice.

711

:

And she goes, you know

who he is, don't you?

712

:

Like, she knows, she knows.

713

:

She's like, you know who he is,

and you won't give him to us,

714

:

unless you get something in return.

715

:

Now we're in Act 2.

716

:

That's the first turning point, because

now we're in a whole new, spectrum here.

717

:

Um, and then we get introduction

to Catherine Martin, she gets

718

:

abducted by Buffalo Bill.

719

:

We see him in the flesh.

720

:

Right.

721

:

For the f I was say for the

first time we actually see him.

722

:

Mm-hmm.

723

:

, um, trying to load that chair

into the back of the van.

724

:

Yeah.

725

:

Right.

726

:

Chris: what was the woman's name that

he captured there and, um, she was

727

:

in, she, she was in, uh, what TV show

728

:

Jerome: her, her real name is, uh, Brooke

729

:

Chris: Gray's anatomy.

730

:

I think she's in Gray's.

731

:

Jerome: Was she?

732

:

I never watched Grey's Anatomy.

733

:

But anyway, she plays Katherine

Martin, the daughter of the Senator.

734

:

Anyway.

735

:

Um, and then Crawford pulls

Starling out and says, Let's go.

736

:

You're coming with us.

737

:

There's more shit going on.

738

:

We found another dead body.

739

:

And now we're in Act 2, the first part of

Act 2, where they're investigating, right,

740

:

the, um, They're at that funeral home.

741

:

Right?

742

:

And she has that little

flashback of seeing her father.

743

:

And again, remember, I said that the

script structure starts, generally,

744

:

you get to know the person first

before the shit hits the fan.

745

:

In this film, the shit hits the fan first.

746

:

Right after that scene is over, as

she's walking to her car, she has

747

:

that flashback of seeing her father.

748

:

So they're already starting to build up.

749

:

Uh, uh, backstory, right?

750

:

Uh, they have the autopsy on that

dead body, the corpse, in the back

751

:

of that funeral home where they

find the cocoon in the throat.

752

:

Press release that Catherine

Martin, the daughter of the Senator

753

:

Ruth Martin, has been kidnapped.

754

:

She goes to see the electorate again.

755

:

And that's where we get

to the midpoint scene.

756

:

The midpoint scene of Silence of the Lambs

is the, is the famous quid pro quo scene.

757

:

I tell you things, you tell me things.

758

:

Not about this case,

though, about yourself.

759

:

And what the fuck did Crawford

say to her at the very beginning?

760

:

You ought to tell him nothing personal.

761

:

And what is her reaction?

762

:

Go doctor.

763

:

Like, let's get it on, bitch!

764

:

Because her ambition is so high!

765

:

Remember?

766

:

Remember what I said, the tangible

goal you reach at the midpoint

767

:

scene, that is to be a player, to

be involved, she just wants to help.

768

:

And when he says, I'll tell

you everything, if you tell

769

:

me everything about yourself.

770

:

She makes that decision at the

midpoint scene to reach her

771

:

tangible goal and say, I'm a fucking

player now, now I'm in the game.

772

:

Because now he'll only talk to me.

773

:

Because I'm going to tell him

774

:

shit about my childhood.

775

:

Which I shouldn't do.

776

:

Because this motherfucker is going to

get in my head and I'm going to have

777

:

nightmares for the rest of my life.

778

:

But, I'm willing to do it because

of my ambition to be a part, right?

779

:

To be a part.

780

:

Chris: To be the hero.

781

:

Jerome: Well, no.

782

:

She doesn't know that she's

going to be the hero yet.

783

:

Chris: Well, no.

784

:

Jerome: She just wants to tell Crawford.

785

:

Chris: Yeah, she's still at that.

786

:

So, yeah, that's the

spiritual goal, right?

787

:

Jerome: Right, her tangible

goal is to just get information

788

:

so she can tell Crawford.

789

:

Hell, again, we're going to get

to it later, every time she gets

790

:

information, she calls Crawford.

791

:

Hey, look what else I found out,

look what else I found out, I

792

:

found out this, I found out that.

793

:

She doesn't want to be the

hero, she just wants to tell the

794

:

professionals how to get them.

795

:

Right?

796

:

So, uh, the Senator's pissed off.

797

:

Chris: They played that well, I mean, man.

798

:

Jerome: Dude, it's so perfect.

799

:

It's so perfect.

800

:

Um, so then the senator gets

pissed about this fake deal.

801

:

They transfer him to Memphis for real.

802

:

They have what I consider to be, my

favorite scene of the whole film.

803

:

And it's before the escape.

804

:

But it's the last time Lecter and

Clarice have their face to face.

805

:

She brings him his drawings.

806

:

It's my favorite scene, and it almost

chokes me up every time I watch it.

807

:

Again, a lot of this is because

Howard Shore, his score, the

808

:

musical score, because it's dead

silent for most of this scene.

809

:

And Jonathan Demme shoots it.

810

:

They always say, like, uh, an uneasy

feeling is where a person's face

811

:

takes up almost the entire frame.

812

:

He zooms so close on Hannibal

Lecter in that scene.

813

:

And so close on Starling.

814

:

Yeah.

815

:

As he says, tell me about

why you left that ranch.

816

:

And she goes into the

whole story about the lamb.

817

:

I woke up in the middle of the night.

818

:

I heard a lamb screaming.

819

:

Um, they were slaughtering the lambs.

820

:

Right?

821

:

And she's just a child.

822

:

I mean, think about what she's

pouring out to him right now.

823

:

Yeah.

824

:

Just to get information, she's willing

to pour all this out, she starts to get

825

:

choked up, she starts to teary eye, and

she's like, I grabbed, I thought if I

826

:

could just save one, and I picked up

one lamb and I ran as fast as I could.

827

:

And of course she didn't get very far, the

cops pick her up, it was, you know, the

828

:

rancher was so mad that she was sent to

live in an orphanage, and blah blah blah,

829

:

cause her father died at a young age.

830

:

The music starts to kick up.

831

:

When Lecter says, what

became of your lamb Clareys?

832

:

And she goes, they killed him.

833

:

And he, and that's when he delivers

pretty much the title of the movie.

834

:

She says, he says, you still wake

up in the middle of the night, don't

835

:

you, to the screaming of the lambs?

836

:

And she says, yes.

837

:

And he goes, you think if you

save poor Catherine, you can

838

:

make them stop, don't you?

839

:

You think if Catherine lives.

840

:

You'll never ever wake up ever again

to the awful screaming of the lambs.

841

:

And she says, she says, I don't know.

842

:

And she's crying at this point.

843

:

She's like, I don't know.

844

:

And he got what he wanted.

845

:

So he simply says, thank you.

846

:

Thank you.

847

:

He got everything he ever needed

to know about her in that moment.

848

:

And then when she says, tell me his

name, by then the authorities are

849

:

already coming in, and he can smell Dr.

850

:

Chilton coming in, and he goes, Dr.

851

:

Chilton, I believe.

852

:

I believe you know each other, right?

853

:

So great.

854

:

Yeah, and it ends so eerie, because

as they're shuffling her out, he goes,

855

:

Clarice, your case file, and he puts it

through the bars, and she goes to reach

856

:

for it, and he With his finger If you

didn't get juice bumps from a chilling

857

:

moment like that, you have no soul because

at that at that moment, you're like Oh

858

:

god, he touched her 15 years old i'm in

859

:

the first time I saw it.

860

:

I remember thinking oh He's

gonna whisper something to her.

861

:

He's gonna tell her

who You know who it is.

862

:

Nope.

863

:

Yep, and then BAM it changes that

fast and you're like, he just, he just

864

:

wanted, he just wanted to touch her.

865

:

He just wanted to touch her, right?

866

:

Because it's, it was, it wasn't

enough to get inside her head.

867

:

He wanted to feel her.

868

:

That's amazing.

869

:

So creepy.

870

:

It's my favorite scene in the film.

871

:

But then the next scene

almost tops it as...

872

:

What I, uh, again, what I said is

one of the greatest scenes in film

873

:

history, uh, up there with the

baptism scene of the Godfather.

874

:

Yeah.

875

:

Is the lector escape scene.

876

:

Now, similar to Midsommar, where I say

the more you watch it the more you catch.

877

:

Mm hmm.

878

:

When you watch Silence of the

Lambs more than once, the initial

879

:

shock of that reveal, his escape,

Again, Howard Shore's score.

880

:

Amazing score.

881

:

And it raises the tension, right?

882

:

And he is, uh, you don't know where he is.

883

:

The cops are trying to storm the building.

884

:

You don't know where he is.

885

:

You see this cop has been

carried off into an ambulance.

886

:

And the moment that he stands up in

the ambulance and pulls that cop's

887

:

flesh mask off his face, there's

a shock there that I don't...

888

:

I don't know most people Like,

I don't know if they were

889

:

ready to handle that yet.

890

:

Right.

891

:

Chris: Exactly.

892

:

Jerome: But, here's what I found.

893

:

And watching it, you know, I've seen it

a million times now, but here's what you

894

:

get when you watch it on the second time.

895

:

The shock of him pulling

the skin off is gone.

896

:

Because you know it's him.

897

:

But it raises the tension

earlier in the movie.

898

:

Earlier in the scene where

he's laying there as the cop.

899

:

They think he's the cop.

900

:

Right.

901

:

Right?

902

:

I know.

903

:

He's genius.

904

:

But now that when you watch it a

second time and you know it's Lekker,

905

:

your tension gets raised even more.

906

:

Yeah.

907

:

And I couldn't help but

think about Alfred Hitchcock.

908

:

Alfred Hitchcock had an interview

one time and he was trying to

909

:

explain suspense to the interviewer.

910

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

911

:

And he said, Okay, let's say you and

I are in this room right now and we're

912

:

talking about baseball and then suddenly

a bomb goes off and we both die.

913

:

He says, the shock that hits the

audience might last a couple of seconds.

914

:

He's like, but suspense is where before

the scene even starts you show the

915

:

bad guy put the bomb under the desk.

916

:

Yeah.

917

:

And now you and I are in the

room talking about baseball.

918

:

Now the audience is thinking,

STOP TALKING ABOUT BASEBALL!

919

:

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE!

920

:

THERE'S A BOMB UNDER THE DESK!

921

:

You know what I mean?

922

:

The suspense is worth

more than the explosion.

923

:

So, you get the reveal of

Lecter pulling that flesh mask

924

:

off his face is scary enough.

925

:

But when you go back and

watch it a second time...

926

:

The tension is raised up until that

moment, because now you know it's him.

927

:

Now you know it's him the whole time.

928

:

They got him.

929

:

Chris: So it's a movie that

was a masterpiece that got

930

:

better every time you saw it.

931

:

Jerome: It gets better with taste!

932

:

Yes.

933

:

Every time, it ages like wine.

934

:

The more you watch it, the better it gets.

935

:

And I'm drinking Chianti here.

936

:

That's great.

937

:

It gets better as it goes.

938

:

Yeah.

939

:

And, and they...

940

:

Uh, I mean, it's just like the whole

time they're in the elevator and you

941

:

know that that's Lector and the gurney?

942

:

Chris: And then the blood

starts dripping down.

943

:

Jerome: And you know the whole

time that Lecter's laying right

944

:

there, like the tension is raised.

945

:

Alright.

946

:

It's, it's, again, the escape

scene, I'll put it up there with the

947

:

Godfather's baptism scene is so great.

948

:

For anyone that doesn't know what

I'm talking about when I keep

949

:

saying that, the famous baptism

scene in The Godfather is where...

950

:

Uh, Michael Corleone is standing

as godfather to his, uh, sister's

951

:

child as it's getting baptized,

as the baby is getting baptized.

952

:

It's intercut with scenes of all

the deaths he's ordered, right?

953

:

All his men are killing the heads of all

the other five families in this scene

954

:

that he's proclaiming, I renounce Satan.

955

:

I renounce evil doings, I renounce all

this stuff, I'm standing as Godfather,

956

:

and while all this shit's going

on, he's killing all these people.

957

:

So that, of course, that to me I think

is one of the greatest of all time.

958

:

Lecter's escape scene is up there.

959

:

Yeah.

960

:

As one of the best of

ever in film history.

961

:

Yeah.

962

:

Um, for those of you that are

interactive with our podcast, Email us!

963

:

Tell us what you think is the best scene

in film history, And see where it matches

964

:

with, uh, Michael Corleone's baptism

scene, And Hannibal Lecter's escape scene.

965

:

So now we get to the escape scene.

966

:

Now we get to the all is lost, right?

967

:

Because the next shot, oh by the

way, I gotta mention this too.

968

:

The second Lector pulls the

flesh, the flesh mask off,

969

:

what is the very next shot?

970

:

It's the payphone dropping.

971

:

Oh yeah.

972

:

And Ardelia, um, Ardelia Mapp, who's

played by Cassie Lemmons, who's a

973

:

director, by the way, in real life.

974

:

Um, she's also an actress,

but she's an actress in this

975

:

movie, she's also a director.

976

:

Running down the hallway

to tell Clarice, right?

977

:

Fucking Lector escaped,

everyone run for cover!

978

:

Basically that shit's hitting

the fan in the worst way!

979

:

The worst way!

980

:

And she's sprinting down the hallway.

981

:

Chris: That's a bad day.

982

:

Jerome: But it's a great

shot, the way he shoots it.

983

:

And this was going to be my point on that.

984

:

This is going away from screenwriting

and more towards directing.

985

:

Phone calls can be boring.

986

:

In film, right?

987

:

They're relaying information

sometimes you already know.

988

:

Make phone calls interesting.

989

:

I always talked about when I was in film

school Dropping the phone and running.

990

:

When I was in film school, one of my

teachers asked about, uh, phone call

991

:

How do you make phone calls interesting?

992

:

And I raised my hand and I said, Fargo.

993

:

Because the phone call never happens.

994

:

In Fargo, uh, it's, uh,

Jerry Lundegaard, right?

995

:

Played by William H.

996

:

Macy.

997

:

He's practicing how he's gonna

tell the father in law that

998

:

the daughter was kidnapped.

999

:

Oh no!

:

00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:39,980

Oh!

:

00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:40,640

Oh no!

:

00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:41,450

Oh Gene!

:

00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:42,180

Oh my wife!

:

00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:45,790

He's going through all these practices,

and then he picks up the phone to dial!

:

00:43:45,975 --> 00:43:47,735

And that's when the scene cuts, right?

:

00:43:47,995 --> 00:43:49,285

They don't actually show the phone call.

:

00:43:49,615 --> 00:43:53,685

What's important there is his reaction,

his preparation for the phone call.

:

00:43:53,725 --> 00:43:56,675

Chris: Almost a comedic relief.

:

00:43:56,675 --> 00:43:58,854

Jerome: Silence of the Lambs does

the same thing on the back end.

:

00:43:59,055 --> 00:44:00,695

The phone call itself is not important.

:

00:44:00,854 --> 00:44:02,815

What's important is

Ardelia's reaction to it.

:

00:44:03,315 --> 00:44:04,134

So the second...

:

00:44:04,795 --> 00:44:08,975

Lecter pulls that skin mask off his

face, and you know that it's Lecter.

:

00:44:09,025 --> 00:44:09,255

Yep.

:

00:44:09,615 --> 00:44:12,165

The scene cuts to that,

the phone just dropping.

:

00:44:12,175 --> 00:44:12,775

That's right.

:

00:44:12,775 --> 00:44:15,305

Yeah, what a great And her, and

her sprinting down the hallway.

:

00:44:15,305 --> 00:44:17,125

Chris: They didn't even

have to explain how.

:

00:44:17,665 --> 00:44:18,245

Jerome: Exactly.

:

00:44:19,135 --> 00:44:19,455

Right.

:

00:44:19,605 --> 00:44:20,465

Who called her?

:

00:44:20,495 --> 00:44:21,865

Why did he call her on a payphone?

:

00:44:21,875 --> 00:44:22,095

Yeah.

:

00:44:22,105 --> 00:44:24,065

What's the i We don't

care about any of that!

:

00:44:24,125 --> 00:44:24,345

Nope.

:

00:44:24,385 --> 00:44:28,195

All that matters is, is now

we know Lecter has escaped.

:

00:44:28,214 --> 00:44:28,724

Yeah.

:

00:44:28,874 --> 00:44:29,134

Yep.

:

00:44:29,205 --> 00:44:29,545

Right?

:

00:44:29,584 --> 00:44:30,725

So that's all is lost.

:

00:44:30,765 --> 00:44:34,435

And it's almost to the point where

Clarice even says to Ardila, It's over.

:

00:44:35,044 --> 00:44:35,585

It's over.

:

00:44:35,685 --> 00:44:37,555

She even says to her, she's dead.

:

00:44:38,285 --> 00:44:38,605

Right?

:

00:44:38,665 --> 00:44:40,015

Talking about Catherine Martin.

:

00:44:40,455 --> 00:44:43,975

Because she feels at that moment that

Lecter was just fucking with her.

:

00:44:43,985 --> 00:44:46,875

He was just using her to get into

a place where he could escape.

:

00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:49,650

And that, that's all is lost.

:

00:44:49,660 --> 00:44:53,060

Everything I fought for, my

tangible goal, everything,

:

00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:54,130

everything's out the window now.

:

00:44:54,130 --> 00:44:55,280

He was just fucking with me.

:

00:44:55,380 --> 00:44:58,240

Chris: One of the, one of the

twisted side story, I mean,

:

00:44:58,580 --> 00:45:01,820

part of the story of, uh, Bill?

:

00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:02,890

Buffalo Bill?

:

00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:03,600

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:06,390

Chris: He would starve the victims.

:

00:45:07,315 --> 00:45:10,495

It's like, it's part of the

psychological torture that this film,

:

00:45:10,495 --> 00:45:14,815

like un unveils, he was starving

their victims, therefore giving the

:

00:45:14,815 --> 00:45:17,195

police time to possibly save her.

:

00:45:17,215 --> 00:45:19,885

They, it kind of gives you the

movie because that's part of

:

00:45:19,885 --> 00:45:21,385

the, the way they set it up.

:

00:45:21,385 --> 00:45:25,195

He's, he's, he needs to starve

them to loosen up their skin.

:

00:45:25,195 --> 00:45:25,285

Jerome: Right.

:

00:45:25,525 --> 00:45:26,875

Chris: It's so disturbing.

:

00:45:26,875 --> 00:45:27,775

I was like, oh my God.

:

00:45:27,775 --> 00:45:29,245

He's making a skin suit.

:

00:45:29,725 --> 00:45:30,085

.

Jerome: Yes.

:

00:45:30,415 --> 00:45:30,865

Yes.

:

00:45:31,285 --> 00:45:34,705

Uh, and now we, before we jump into

Act three, one little side note.

:

00:45:35,310 --> 00:45:38,360

Um, so when I said the Senator

finds out about this fake deal,

:

00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,520

and she's pissed off, right?

:

00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:44,540

She tells, uh, they said, uh, Paul

Krendler is over here from Justice.

:

00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:46,060

He's gonna take over in Memphis.

:

00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:49,590

The guy that plays Paul Krendler's

name is actually Ron Vaughter.

:

00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:50,540

Uh, he's an actor.

:

00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,570

He died in real life of AIDS.

:

00:45:52,830 --> 00:45:54,390

And he was in Philadelphia.

:

00:45:55,010 --> 00:45:58,580

uh, which by the way, Philadelphia

is directed by Jonathan Demme.

:

00:46:00,190 --> 00:46:04,380

He cast him in Philadelphia as one

of the lawyer partners that knew

:

00:46:04,380 --> 00:46:06,660

about Tom Hanks dying of AIDS, right?

:

00:46:07,470 --> 00:46:08,710

He died in real life of AIDS.

:

00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:12,220

Because he was unavailable when

they did the sequel, because of

:

00:46:12,220 --> 00:46:15,890

this, they cast Ray Liotta to play

Paul Krendler in the sequel Animal.

:

00:46:16,805 --> 00:46:20,555

So, that's where, uh, people, you

know, I, I didn't know that he

:

00:46:20,555 --> 00:46:21,995

had died in real life of AIDS.

:

00:46:22,175 --> 00:46:25,145

And when I heard that they were doing

Hannibal, the sequel, and that they

:

00:46:25,145 --> 00:46:31,065

had cast Ray Liotta as Paul Kremler,

my original reaction was, Oh, bullshit!

:

00:46:31,065 --> 00:46:35,155

I mean, I love Ray Liotta, don't get

me wrong, but let's get the same guy!

:

00:46:35,935 --> 00:46:37,705

Go get the guy that played

him in the first movie!

:

00:46:37,705 --> 00:46:39,315

And then when I looked it

up, I realized he was dead.

:

00:46:41,135 --> 00:46:42,635

He couldn't, he couldn't

play the part, he had died.

:

00:46:42,955 --> 00:46:45,475

Um, and so Ray Liotta plays a great...

:

00:46:45,875 --> 00:46:49,415

Uh, Paul Krendler, uh, for anyone

that sees, has seen that film.

:

00:46:49,765 --> 00:46:51,715

Couple other details before

we get to the third act.

:

00:46:52,655 --> 00:46:56,145

We talked about the Bill Skins

fifth article being about Lecter.

:

00:46:56,705 --> 00:46:59,515

Couple other details about,

uh, I'm jumping way back here.

:

00:46:59,615 --> 00:47:01,295

We're out of sync, but, whatever.

:

00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:03,150

We jump around.

:

00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,280

When Starling first comes into

John Crawford's office, there's

:

00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,780

that chalkboard that has Skins

written real big on it, right?

:

00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,920

It's interesting if you zoom in

to let you see some of the other

:

00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:14,960

stuff that's written on that board.

:

00:47:14,970 --> 00:47:21,940

But what I thought was very interesting

is when we get to his actual office

:

00:47:22,340 --> 00:47:25,710

where Starling is looking around and

then she turns around and sees the

:

00:47:25,980 --> 00:47:29,990

pictures on the wall and the Bill

Skins 5th article and all that stuff.

:

00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:30,170

Yeah.

:

00:47:30,170 --> 00:47:33,820

Yeah behind her Off to

the side is a couch.

:

00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:36,780

And on that couch is

a pillow and blankets.

:

00:47:39,210 --> 00:47:40,040

Probably nothing, right?

:

00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:41,910

But what I see...

:

00:47:42,485 --> 00:47:47,665

Is, this is a guy who works so

much his marriage life is probably

:

00:47:47,665 --> 00:47:51,315

in shambles and because of it,

doesn't have a lot of lady friends.

:

00:47:51,725 --> 00:47:55,265

Which spawns Lector into saying

at that one point, do you think

:

00:47:55,265 --> 00:47:56,975

Crawford wants you sexually?

:

00:47:57,505 --> 00:47:57,865

Remember?

:

00:47:57,885 --> 00:48:01,545

And he starts going into, true,

he's so much older, but do you think

:

00:48:01,545 --> 00:48:02,725

he wants, you know what I mean?

:

00:48:02,725 --> 00:48:06,505

Like, it kinda, to me I saw that again.

:

00:48:06,655 --> 00:48:11,065

Not in the first viewing, maybe not

even on the tenth viewing, but on

:

00:48:11,065 --> 00:48:16,045

like the hundredth viewing, I was

like, wait a minute, so he's, maybe

:

00:48:16,045 --> 00:48:19,545

he sleeps in his office, because his

marriage life sucks, and he works

:

00:48:19,545 --> 00:48:22,415

so much, but maybe that's why he's

:

00:48:22,415 --> 00:48:24,555

Chris: That's such a small

detail, it's like so fleeting, how

:

00:48:26,985 --> 00:48:28,385

Jerome: why did he pick Starling?

:

00:48:28,615 --> 00:48:29,875

Is he attracted to her?

:

00:48:29,965 --> 00:48:30,655

You know what I mean?

:

00:48:30,655 --> 00:48:32,615

Like, they know each other.

:

00:48:32,695 --> 00:48:37,025

He mentions, Oh, you grilled me pretty

hard on that one seminar at UVA.

:

00:48:37,045 --> 00:48:37,495

You know what I mean?

:

00:48:37,495 --> 00:48:39,015

Like, so he knows who she is.

:

00:48:39,095 --> 00:48:39,355

Sure.

:

00:48:39,835 --> 00:48:40,895

So is he attracted to her?

:

00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:44,405

It's just something like that,

just a little directorial detail.

:

00:48:44,615 --> 00:48:44,845

Yeah.

:

00:48:44,845 --> 00:48:47,245

A pillow and blankets on

the couch in his office.

:

00:48:48,815 --> 00:48:54,985

Alright, so, uh, So we get

to, uh, the third act, right?

:

00:48:55,245 --> 00:48:56,565

So what's the second turning point?

:

00:48:56,585 --> 00:49:00,685

Obviously the dark night of the soul,

which is right after the all is lost,

:

00:49:00,685 --> 00:49:04,065

is where she sits with Ardelia, and

they're going over the case file.

:

00:49:04,715 --> 00:49:05,045

Right?

:

00:49:07,005 --> 00:49:08,395

You know, he fucked me.

:

00:49:08,405 --> 00:49:09,375

He was just screwing me.

:

00:49:09,375 --> 00:49:11,545

He didn't really want

me to find Buffalo Bill.

:

00:49:11,565 --> 00:49:12,775

He's just doing it to escape.

:

00:49:12,985 --> 00:49:14,125

And Ardelia says, wait a second.

:

00:49:14,125 --> 00:49:15,215

Is this Lecter's handwriting?

:

00:49:15,685 --> 00:49:18,615

I actually read a reddit one time that

said Ardelia was the one that actually

:

00:49:18,615 --> 00:49:22,675

solves the crime because she's the one

that says Isn't this Lecter's handwriting?

:

00:49:22,675 --> 00:49:23,125

Read this.

:

00:49:23,125 --> 00:49:23,705

What does this say?

:

00:49:25,135 --> 00:49:28,975

She's the one that actually finds

it and it's where he gives her the

:

00:49:28,975 --> 00:49:32,215

hint that it's not random at all.

:

00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,450

If you try to find it, it's there.

:

00:49:34,540 --> 00:49:36,880

And he talked about simplicity

in the previous scene.

:

00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:39,620

We covet what we see every day.

:

00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:44,150

That's when she comes to the realization

he knew her, he knew the first victim.

:

00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:46,170

That's your second turning point.

:

00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,630

'cause it transitions now into

the third act where she's going

:

00:49:48,635 --> 00:49:51,440

to investigate Belvedere, Ohio.

:

00:49:51,710 --> 00:49:54,320

The missing the place of

the missing first girl.

:

00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:54,860

Right?

:

00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:56,750

And who the fuck's door does she knock on?

:

00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:58,740

Right?

:

00:49:59,110 --> 00:49:59,270

Right.

:

00:49:59,660 --> 00:50:01,800

After enough investigating,

she actually walks up.

:

00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:04,950

Chris: It was great how they,

how they, uh, directed that.

:

00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:07,880

Jerome: The editing of that is phenomenal.

:

00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:08,630

Chris: It's so good.

:

00:50:08,740 --> 00:50:08,950

Oh my god.

:

00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,370

Jerome: Because you believed.

:

00:50:11,125 --> 00:50:16,875

That the FBI is so and again

when she discovers the the the

:

00:50:16,885 --> 00:50:21,005

diamond shaped patterns Yeah,

of this of the sewing right?

:

00:50:21,155 --> 00:50:25,555

She doesn't say I'm gonna be the hero

She calls Crawford right and says hey,

:

00:50:25,755 --> 00:50:31,125

I figured it out He's making a dress out

of human skin and Crawford's like yes,

:

00:50:31,125 --> 00:50:34,715

we know we're on our way to pick him up

right now Thank you for all your help.

:

00:50:35,145 --> 00:50:35,745

Go home.

:

00:50:35,755 --> 00:50:38,950

Have a cigarette Whatever, you

know, actually he tells her keep

:

00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:41,380

investigating because we want to

get him for murder, not kidnapping.

:

00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,430

So keep investigating, but we're

going to get him right now and

:

00:50:44,430 --> 00:50:45,620

thank you for all your help.

:

00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:48,430

And she feels like, ah, I helped.

:

00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:48,790

Yeah.

:

00:50:48,850 --> 00:50:49,070

Good.

:

00:50:49,070 --> 00:50:49,420

Yeah.

:

00:50:49,530 --> 00:50:50,170

Thank you.

:

00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:50,570

Tangible.

:

00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,820

Yeah, I better keep investigating

because he wanted me to and we want

:

00:50:54,820 --> 00:50:56,150

to get him for murder, not kidnapping.

:

00:50:56,150 --> 00:51:00,795

So let me try to link him to the Biml,

the Katherine And that's when she goes

:

00:51:00,795 --> 00:51:02,945

and knocks on his fucking door, right?

:

00:51:04,205 --> 00:51:06,705

And he's there, and it

leads to the spiritual goal,

:

00:51:06,705 --> 00:51:08,195

obviously, of becoming the hero.

:

00:51:08,355 --> 00:51:14,995

He saves, she saves the girl, kills the

bad guy, I mean, again, nothing you ever

:

00:51:14,995 --> 00:51:17,865

would have thought would have happened to

a trainee at the beginning of the movie.

:

00:51:18,265 --> 00:51:22,865

Chris: And the way that all unfolds,

it ends up in the dark, uh, using the

:

00:51:22,875 --> 00:51:28,265

darkness for, uh, and he had these, uh,

night vision that, I must say, for the

:

00:51:28,275 --> 00:51:32,225

date that this movie was made, those

were really good quality night vision.

:

00:51:32,235 --> 00:51:37,535

That's like, only the, the, the elite,

uh, military had those kind back then.

:

00:51:37,585 --> 00:51:40,385

Jerome: And others would say

that that's an actual flaw in the

:

00:51:40,385 --> 00:51:44,605

movie, because if you watch that

scene again, when he reaches up...

:

00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:47,310

A shadow is crossed across her.

:

00:51:47,930 --> 00:51:50,630

So, how would there be

a shadow with infrared?

:

00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:51,380

Right?

:

00:51:52,970 --> 00:51:53,560

Chris: That's funny.

:

00:51:53,940 --> 00:51:54,210

Yeah.

:

00:51:54,290 --> 00:51:56,280

Jerome: But, that aside,

it's still a perfect movie.

:

00:51:56,310 --> 00:51:56,490

Yeah.

:

00:51:56,490 --> 00:51:57,070

I don't care what anyone says.

:

00:51:59,030 --> 00:51:59,740

You found a flaw.

:

00:51:59,770 --> 00:52:00,760

Someone found a flaw.

:

00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,890

Well, I refuse to acknowledge that

as a flaw in such a perfect movie.

:

00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,860

Um, so, yeah, so.

:

00:52:08,005 --> 00:52:10,895

Chris: You know, if they were

Lucas, they would just go fix that.

:

00:52:12,835 --> 00:52:13,415

Jerome: That's true.

:

00:52:13,425 --> 00:52:15,745

And they probably could on a re release.

:

00:52:15,995 --> 00:52:16,465

Right.

:

00:52:16,995 --> 00:52:18,675

On a re release, they probably could.

:

00:52:18,675 --> 00:52:20,915

Chris: Gotta tie it back to

Lucas or Star Wars, right?

:

00:52:20,925 --> 00:52:21,295

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:52:21,345 --> 00:52:23,245

Uh, well, of course that's how we roll.

:

00:52:23,805 --> 00:52:25,765

Um, so yeah.

:

00:52:25,765 --> 00:52:26,065

All right.

:

00:52:26,075 --> 00:52:29,735

So your first reactions, when did, when,

when was the first time you saw the film?

:

00:52:30,925 --> 00:52:34,745

Chris: I'm embarrassed to say this

cause yours was so fricking intense.

:

00:52:35,795 --> 00:52:36,595

I don't remember.

:

00:52:38,065 --> 00:52:40,275

I don't remember if I saw it.

:

00:52:40,335 --> 00:52:42,595

I mean, I don't, I don't remember

if I saw it in the theater.

:

00:52:42,595 --> 00:52:42,845

I don't remember.

:

00:52:43,375 --> 00:52:45,685

I'm so, I'm breaking your heart right now.

:

00:52:45,685 --> 00:52:48,085

He's like, ladies and gentlemen,

:

00:52:48,085 --> 00:52:51,175

Jerome: I told you one of

the most personal stories.

:

00:52:52,215 --> 00:52:53,435

Chris: It's so bad.

:

00:52:53,625 --> 00:52:58,025

It's funny because I have a lame, I

have a lame description of wanting to

:

00:52:58,025 --> 00:53:00,205

go back into a theater to see a movie.

:

00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:06,470

Also, but it pales in comparison to

the movie that I went back to see.

:

00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:07,170

Jerome: Oh no.

:

00:53:07,290 --> 00:53:09,530

Chris: It was good,

but it's not this good.

:

00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:09,960

I mean...

:

00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:10,580

Jerome: What was it?

:

00:53:12,475 --> 00:53:13,515

Chris: Flatliners.

:

00:53:14,235 --> 00:53:15,875

With Kiefer Sutherland and...

:

00:53:15,905 --> 00:53:16,465

Jerome: Okay.

:

00:53:17,485 --> 00:53:20,145

Actually, I remember from my childhood...

:

00:53:20,145 --> 00:53:20,986

Chris: I still think

that was a good movie.

:

00:53:20,986 --> 00:53:24,455

Jerome: I remember how highly

you spoke of that film.

:

00:53:24,475 --> 00:53:24,585

Yeah.

:

00:53:24,595 --> 00:53:25,535

I do remember that.

:

00:53:25,585 --> 00:53:28,005

I actually remember that, you

talking about that movie...

:

00:53:28,005 --> 00:53:28,265

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:53:28,465 --> 00:53:30,555

Jerome: Because it opens

with Kiefer Sutherland going,

:

00:53:30,555 --> 00:53:31,685

Today's a good day to die.

:

00:53:31,695 --> 00:53:32,095

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:53:32,205 --> 00:53:32,985

I thought it was a great...

:

00:53:32,985 --> 00:53:35,645

We should do that movie sometime

because I thought it was a great film.

:

00:53:36,430 --> 00:53:38,650

Jerome: And that, keep in mind, that's

the only time in my life I've ever

:

00:53:38,650 --> 00:53:42,090

done that, and I always put an asterisk

there because it doesn't count when

:

00:53:42,090 --> 00:53:43,800

The Phantom Menace was first released.

:

00:53:44,290 --> 00:53:49,200

Because I bought tickets in

advance for back to back shows.

:

00:53:49,870 --> 00:53:51,950

Because I knew I was going to

want to watch it twice in a row.

:

00:53:52,855 --> 00:53:53,695

So that doesn't count.

:

00:53:54,345 --> 00:53:57,255

Sound of the Lambs is the only

film where I saw a movie cold

:

00:53:57,505 --> 00:53:58,575

without knowing what it's about.

:

00:53:59,555 --> 00:54:00,705

Just spending your day there.

:

00:54:00,825 --> 00:54:04,335

And I walked out going, nope,

I'm going right back in line.

:

00:54:04,335 --> 00:54:06,425

I'm gonna watch this motherfucker again.

:

00:54:07,265 --> 00:54:12,505

That's how intense that film was to me

and how inspirational it was on my life.

:

00:54:12,875 --> 00:54:17,960

Um And watching it again for this,

but I was going to tell you, actually,

:

00:54:18,830 --> 00:54:22,670

I was going to try to do the podcast

without re watching either one because

:

00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:26,430

I've seen both of them so many times

that I was like, I bet you that I

:

00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:30,580

could talk about script structure and

all the things we always talk about

:

00:54:30,580 --> 00:54:31,900

without ever watching them again.

:

00:54:32,090 --> 00:54:33,130

But I was like, nah, fuck that.

:

00:54:33,150 --> 00:54:34,150

I got to watch both of them again.

:

00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:34,830

I want to watch them again.

:

00:54:35,905 --> 00:54:40,585

And I'm glad I did because again,

you pick up little things that

:

00:54:40,585 --> 00:54:42,105

you didn't catch the first time.

:

00:54:42,665 --> 00:54:44,625

And at this time, I took notes, right?

:

00:54:44,665 --> 00:54:48,225

I was actually going to take notes

and write down things like theme and

:

00:54:48,225 --> 00:54:50,495

stuff like that, but it was really...

:

00:54:51,085 --> 00:54:56,875

Just a joy for me to watch both of

these films again for this podcast.

:

00:54:56,925 --> 00:54:59,385

I was so excited when we decided that

we were going to do this podcast.

:

00:55:00,345 --> 00:55:03,235

It does not surprise me that we

have to break it up into two parts.

:

00:55:04,205 --> 00:55:06,745

Um, like Star Wars, like

we did with Star Wars.

:

00:55:07,705 --> 00:55:11,475

Because of how great, I mean,

I love both of these films.

:

00:55:15,495 --> 00:55:18,155

Chris: That's your little

gesture of affection.

:

00:55:19,265 --> 00:55:20,425

Jerome: Exclamation point!

:

00:55:22,485 --> 00:55:26,655

As Elaine would say in Seinfeld,

I would put exclamation points at

:

00:55:26,655 --> 00:55:28,225

the end of all of these sentences.

:

00:55:28,415 --> 00:55:30,935

At the end of this one,

and the end of that one!

:

00:55:31,345 --> 00:55:34,675

So anyway, that's my

little Seinfeld reference.

:

00:55:35,525 --> 00:55:39,345

Um, so, uh, yeah, so obviously

these movies mean a lot to me.

:

00:55:39,345 --> 00:55:42,275

Silence of the Lambs more so just

because it changed the direction of...

:

00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,340

Wow, I wanted my life to

go, uh, to go into writing.

:

00:55:45,590 --> 00:55:48,350

Uh, Midsommar, I just think,

is the best film of:

:

00:55:48,350 --> 00:55:49,290

I think it's an abomination.

:

00:55:49,290 --> 00:55:51,280

It got left completely out of the Oscars.

:

00:55:51,790 --> 00:55:57,020

Um, but, uh, so, we encourage you,

listeners, if you haven't seen either

:

00:55:57,020 --> 00:55:58,640

of these films, please watch them.

:

00:55:59,010 --> 00:56:02,040

They are ama even though we just told

you the fucking endings to both of them.

:

00:56:02,340 --> 00:56:02,550

, right.

:

00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:03,600

Go watch 'em.

:

00:56:03,605 --> 00:56:06,810

It's, it's, I mean, yeah,

it's still, it's still better.

:

00:56:06,900 --> 00:56:10,860

It's even better knowing what you

know, because then you catch little

:

00:56:10,860 --> 00:56:12,150

things that are with the disclaimers.

:

00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:13,110

Please.

:

00:56:13,140 --> 00:56:13,290

Yeah.

:

00:56:13,290 --> 00:56:13,291

Yes.

:

00:56:13,296 --> 00:56:14,160

I mean, watch the disclaimers.

:

00:56:14,490 --> 00:56:14,850

Yes.

:

00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:18,580

Chris: There you some major trigger

triggering shit in Midsommar

:

00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,510

Jerome: you know it, uh, Crawford,

one of the first things Crawford says

:

00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:23,160

at Starling is, do you spook easily?

:

00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:23,340

? Yeah.

:

00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:27,100

So, I'm going to relay that

message to our listeners.

:

00:56:27,110 --> 00:56:29,900

If you spook easily, stay

away from both of these films.

:

00:56:30,180 --> 00:56:31,160

Alright, so what do you got for me?

:

00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:31,850

Six degrees.

:

00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:33,190

Chris: Six degrees.

:

00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:34,410

Oh, I gotta pull my phone up.

:

00:56:34,410 --> 00:56:37,900

I forgot everybody's name because

I'm like three and a half beers in.

:

00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:39,580

And these are high octane.

:

00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:39,850

Hold on.

:

00:56:40,830 --> 00:56:43,960

Jerome: I finished, I finished

this bottle of Chianti.

:

00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:45,440

I can't believe it.

:

00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:49,810

I don't know if I've, I've never, you know

what, I don't want to say I don't know if.

:

00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,770

I'm going to say I've never finished

a bottle of wine in my life.

:

00:56:53,070 --> 00:56:54,510

Cause I'm not, I'm not a wine guy.

:

00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:56,260

Chris: Six degrees.

:

00:56:56,670 --> 00:56:58,100

Isabel Grill.

:

00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:59,550

Uh, who's Maja.

:

00:57:00,850 --> 00:57:05,780

Jerome: She plays Maja in Midsommar,

the redhead that seduces Christian with

:

00:57:05,780 --> 00:57:09,120

her pubes and her menstrual juices.

:

00:57:09,470 --> 00:57:14,000

Chris: I anticipated that we would talk

about her a little bit, so I picked her.

:

00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:16,010

Jerome: Yep, yep, yep.

:

00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,020

Chris: And Charles, was it Napier?

:

00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,260

Jerome: Charles Napier, now Charles

Napier has been in a million things.

:

00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:23,150

Right,

:

00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:26,810

Chris: He passed several years ago, and

he hasn't been in a lot of recent stuff.

:

00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:27,410

Jerome: True.

:

00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:28,731

And he was, he has,

:

00:57:28,731 --> 00:57:29,930

Chris: but he was in a lot of stuff.

:

00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:30,410

Jerome: He has.

:

00:57:30,415 --> 00:57:33,290

He had a shot, has a brutal,

he has a brutal death scene

:

00:57:33,350 --> 00:57:34,340

in Silence of the Lambs.

:

00:57:34,345 --> 00:57:38,750

Chris: Hang on here, let me, let me, um,

pop this in honor of, uh, his, his career.

:

00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:40,730

Charles Napier.

:

00:57:40,820 --> 00:57:41,270

Thank you.

:

00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:42,020

Jerome: Oh, thank you.

:

00:57:42,025 --> 00:57:42,260

Thank you.

:

00:57:42,260 --> 00:57:43,220

This is good.

:

00:57:43,460 --> 00:57:43,820

Okay.

:

00:57:48,135 --> 00:57:49,285

Chris: So, how'd we do?

:

00:57:49,315 --> 00:57:53,175

Cause, uh, I thought I might challenge

you with Isabel Grill because

:

00:57:53,215 --> 00:57:54,625

Jerome: This is fucking terrible!

:

00:57:54,625 --> 00:57:56,114

Chris: She ain't been in

a lot and she's Swedish!

:

00:57:56,115 --> 00:57:57,235

Jerome: This is terrible!

:

00:57:57,635 --> 00:57:58,865

It's absolutely terrible!

:

00:57:58,875 --> 00:57:59,895

This was gut wrenching!

:

00:57:59,895 --> 00:58:01,275

Chris: Did I get, did you get it?

:

00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:02,750

Jerome: I got it.

:

00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:03,260

Chris: Okay.

:

00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:04,270

I made you work.

:

00:58:04,270 --> 00:58:04,900

Jerome: I got it.

:

00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,590

But, and again, remember

that we're not allowed to use

:

00:58:08,590 --> 00:58:09,900

the movies that we're using.

:

00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:12,580

Chris: Yeah, that's an added level

of difficulty to the original rule.

:

00:58:12,620 --> 00:58:15,870

Jerome: Because otherwise, I would

just say Midsommar because Florence

:

00:58:15,890 --> 00:58:17,320

Pugh has been in a million things now.

:

00:58:17,330 --> 00:58:20,050

Chris: So it's really seven degrees

if we're not using this one, I think.

:

00:58:20,090 --> 00:58:21,770

We just call it seven degrees.

:

00:58:21,890 --> 00:58:22,200

Jerome: Okay.

:

00:58:22,340 --> 00:58:27,530

No, listen, if I was, if I was able to use

midsummer, I probably could have done this

:

00:58:27,540 --> 00:58:30,600

in three, but without using midsummer.

:

00:58:31,565 --> 00:58:34,025

I have to pick something else she's done.

:

00:58:34,085 --> 00:58:34,258

Yes.

:

00:58:34,398 --> 00:58:37,435

And has only done Swedish movies

and half of them were short films.

:

00:58:38,155 --> 00:58:38,625

So...

:

00:58:39,605 --> 00:58:39,905

Okay.

:

00:58:40,195 --> 00:58:40,995

But I found it.

:

00:58:41,115 --> 00:58:41,845

I found it.

:

00:58:42,145 --> 00:58:42,505

I found it.

:

00:58:43,035 --> 00:58:44,815

And for those of you

saying, oh, he cheated.

:

00:58:44,815 --> 00:58:45,865

He used an IMDb.

:

00:58:45,985 --> 00:58:47,705

Remember, it's not Stump Jerome.

:

00:58:47,875 --> 00:58:49,605

We just want to see if it can be done.

:

00:58:49,615 --> 00:58:50,705

Chris: If it can be done, yeah.

:

00:58:50,705 --> 00:58:51,415

If it can be done.

:

00:58:51,425 --> 00:58:53,505

It's pretty fascinating

that it can so far.

:

00:58:53,505 --> 00:58:54,485

I mean, we've never been...

:

00:58:54,905 --> 00:58:56,255

We've never not done it.

:

00:58:56,785 --> 00:58:59,355

Jerome: Right, and we've

picked some obscure names.

:

00:58:59,625 --> 00:59:00,005

Yeah,

:

00:59:00,065 --> 00:59:03,685

Chris: Carrot Top and, uh,

Charlie Chaplin were the best one.

:

00:59:03,805 --> 00:59:04,485

Jerome: That's the best one.

:

00:59:05,285 --> 00:59:06,065

Alright, so here we go.

:

00:59:06,945 --> 00:59:07,395

So here we go.

:

00:59:07,445 --> 00:59:08,895

Isabel Grill.

:

00:59:09,075 --> 00:59:10,455

She played Maja.

:

00:59:11,005 --> 00:59:11,345

Right?

:

00:59:11,405 --> 00:59:12,315

In Midsommar.

:

00:59:12,805 --> 00:59:17,795

She was in a:

film called The Store.

:

00:59:19,215 --> 00:59:22,815

With Latvian actress Eliza Sika.

:

00:59:24,035 --> 00:59:31,135

Okay, who was in, who was the lead in the

Viking sisters, another:

:

00:59:31,735 --> 00:59:33,885

This one had Henrik Norman in it.

:

00:59:33,925 --> 00:59:34,975

Chris: Oh, you went deep.

:

00:59:35,695 --> 00:59:36,495

Jerome: Oh, I'm deep.

:

00:59:37,285 --> 00:59:38,775

Here's where it starts to get to shit.

:

00:59:38,795 --> 00:59:43,685

You might realize Henrik Norman

was in Borg versus LaBeouf.

:

00:59:47,570 --> 00:59:51,420

Uh, where Shia LaBeouf

played, um, uh, John McEnroe.

:

00:59:51,490 --> 00:59:54,090

It was the movie about

Bjorn borg versus...

:

00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:55,540

You I remember the...

:

00:59:55,590 --> 00:59:59,130

So it's a:

Borg versus McEnroe.

:

00:59:59,130 --> 00:59:59,870

Okay, alright.

:

00:59:59,870 --> 01:00:00,920

Henrik Norman's in that.

:

01:00:01,270 --> 01:00:03,740

Who else is in that,

aside from Shia LaBeouf?

:

01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:05,500

Stellan Skarsgård.

:

01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,890

Chris: Now you got some

piece, now you got some names.

:

01:00:07,950 --> 01:00:09,550

Jerome: Now I got some names.

:

01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:14,890

Stellan Skarsgård, of course, was in

the:

:

01:00:14,910 --> 01:00:17,790

Tom Hanks, who was in Philadelphia.

:

01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:21,940

Also directed by Jonathan Demme,

with Charles Napier, who played

:

01:00:21,940 --> 01:00:23,610

the judge in Philadelphia.

:

01:00:24,590 --> 01:00:26,650

He was the judge of the, of the case.

:

01:00:26,810 --> 01:00:28,800

Chris: Wow, that, that was six wasn't it?

:

01:00:28,910 --> 01:00:30,210

Jerome: No, it was five.

:

01:00:30,210 --> 01:00:30,570

Chris: Was it five?

:

01:00:30,570 --> 01:00:32,270

I was trying, I was trying to count.

:

01:00:32,510 --> 01:00:34,270

Jerome: The Soar, Viking Sisters.

:

01:00:34,270 --> 01:00:35,420

You lost me after five.

:

01:00:35,420 --> 01:00:35,990

Five!

:

01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:37,060

Borg vs.

:

01:00:37,090 --> 01:00:40,470

McEnroe, Angels and Demons, and

Philadelphia has five connections.

:

01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:40,500

Wow.

:

01:00:41,020 --> 01:00:42,420

Now, am I embarrassed?

:

01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,780

Yes, because it could have been done in

way less if I was able to use Midsommar,

:

01:00:46,830 --> 01:00:48,690

it would have been able to be a lot less.

:

01:00:49,260 --> 01:00:53,880

But, remember, the point of this

game is to, can we find, are there

:

01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:55,050

two people that cannot be connected?

:

01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,670

Chris: But that's why I said seven

degrees, because we're actually

:

01:00:57,690 --> 01:00:59,780

adding a level of difficulty.

:

01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,010

Jerome: Yes!

:

01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:01,800

So, you know what I'm saying?

:

01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,580

Because I don't get to use, I don't get to

use the movies that we're talking about.

:

01:01:04,580 --> 01:01:04,820

Chris: Yeah!

:

01:01:04,975 --> 01:01:06,225

It's an added level.

:

01:01:06,225 --> 01:01:08,015

It's harder than six degrees.

:

01:01:08,075 --> 01:01:08,405

Jerome: Right.

:

01:01:08,415 --> 01:01:13,525

So I wouldn't be able to use

Silence of the Lambs or midsommar.

:

01:01:15,525 --> 01:01:18,055

Chris: I think we're going

to connect a different way.

:

01:01:23,815 --> 01:01:24,275

Right?

:

01:01:26,015 --> 01:01:26,905

It just made sense.

:

01:01:27,380 --> 01:01:28,770

Jerome: I can't think right now.

:

01:01:28,830 --> 01:01:31,600

I have too much Chianti on the brain.

:

01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,080

But, yes, for those of you listening,

I usually try to do six degrees off

:

01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,400

the cuff, like off the top of my head.

:

01:01:41,410 --> 01:01:44,210

This one, my brother, just

kicked me in the nuts.

:

01:01:44,875 --> 01:01:46,035

Chris: He's bothering me at work.

:

01:01:46,035 --> 01:01:47,775

He's like, don't forget six degrees.

:

01:01:47,775 --> 01:01:48,525

I'm like, son of a.

:

01:01:48,725 --> 01:01:49,595

Jerome: I was texting you two nights ago.

:

01:01:49,595 --> 01:01:51,025

Chris: I know.

:

01:01:51,185 --> 01:01:54,265

My next break, I'm like, all

right, I'm looking at IMDB at

:

01:01:54,265 --> 01:01:55,185

the people that were in it.

:

01:01:55,195 --> 01:01:57,165

I'm like, oh, um, here we go.

:

01:01:58,445 --> 01:02:00,135

So I enjoy my part.

:

01:02:00,195 --> 01:02:02,175

I just get to throw shit at you.

:

01:02:02,745 --> 01:02:03,055

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:02:04,075 --> 01:02:04,925

And it's hard.

:

01:02:04,925 --> 01:02:05,655

It's difficult.

:

01:02:08,975 --> 01:02:11,155

But, but, we made it happen.

:

01:02:11,315 --> 01:02:12,145

It can be done.

:

01:02:12,215 --> 01:02:13,115

It can be done.

:

01:02:13,265 --> 01:02:16,545

And that's our thesis, that any

two can be connected with the six

:

01:02:16,545 --> 01:02:19,165

degrees we have yet to be stumped.

:

01:02:20,395 --> 01:02:22,445

Chris: So, um,

:

01:02:22,505 --> 01:02:23,605

Jerome: let's land the plane!

:

01:02:23,605 --> 01:02:25,095

Chris: Yeah, I don't

know, how do we end this?

:

01:02:25,095 --> 01:02:27,865

I mean, it's, it was two masterpieces.

:

01:02:28,705 --> 01:02:30,155

You need to see both of them.

:

01:02:30,610 --> 01:02:33,140

Jerome: One of the greatest films

of the 90s, one of the greatest

:

01:02:33,140 --> 01:02:39,750

films of the:

completely snubbed by the Oscars,

:

01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,060

one absolutely adored by the Oscars.

:

01:02:42,070 --> 01:02:46,590

Chris: I think Midsommar is

going to become a legendary film.

:

01:02:47,115 --> 01:02:47,675

You know what I mean?

:

01:02:47,755 --> 01:02:51,415

Because it's so, it's still

so recent to when it was made.

:

01:02:52,225 --> 01:02:55,675

I'd like to listen back to

this podcast in 20 years.

:

01:02:55,945 --> 01:02:57,115

And you know what I mean?

:

01:02:57,465 --> 01:03:00,305

Jerome: You know who

would love to podcast?

:

01:03:00,325 --> 01:03:01,255

Your daughters.

:

01:03:01,685 --> 01:03:06,305

Particularly Hannah and Kaitlynn,

because they both loved Midsommar.

:

01:03:06,305 --> 01:03:07,095

Chris: Kaitlynn, no, I don't think...

:

01:03:08,140 --> 01:03:08,940

Jerome: Was it not Kaitlynn?

:

01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:09,660

Definitely Hannah.

:

01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:10,580

Definitely Hannah.

:

01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:11,150

It was Hannah.

:

01:03:11,180 --> 01:03:12,610

Chris: I just asked if she had seen it.

:

01:03:12,610 --> 01:03:14,100

I'm pretty sure she said no.

:

01:03:14,170 --> 01:03:15,230

Jerome: Okay, so it was Hannah.

:

01:03:15,260 --> 01:03:15,650

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:03:15,730 --> 01:03:16,230

I don't know.

:

01:03:16,380 --> 01:03:19,100

I hadn't talked to Hannah about

it, but I'll have to talk to her.

:

01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,240

Jerome: All you have to do

is text one word, midsummer.

:

01:03:23,300 --> 01:03:23,870

Chris: Yes.

:

01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,350

Hannah, we will text, text you.

:

01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:31,190

Actually, I'm kind of disappointed

I did not consult Hannah.

:

01:03:31,650 --> 01:03:36,790

Because they would have really loved,

Me feeding, their point of view, so.

:

01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:38,020

Jerome: Yes.

:

01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:38,640

Chris: You know what I mean?

:

01:03:38,860 --> 01:03:38,960

Jerome: Yes.

:

01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:40,810

And it's unfair.

:

01:03:40,820 --> 01:03:41,547

I will be talking to you soon.

:

01:03:41,547 --> 01:03:44,970

Because I had been feeding, because

I had been feeding mom's point of

:

01:03:44,970 --> 01:03:47,890

view while we did this podcast, so.

:

01:03:47,890 --> 01:03:48,400

Yeah.

:

01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,580

It's only fair that you should

have been able to feed point

:

01:03:50,590 --> 01:03:51,290

of view of your daughter.

:

01:03:51,290 --> 01:03:52,560

Chris: But Hannah, we will be talking.

:

01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:57,210

This was an amazing film,

as disturbing as it was.

:

01:03:57,210 --> 01:03:57,530

Yes.

:

01:03:57,540 --> 01:03:58,810

So that's where we should land it.

:

01:03:59,395 --> 01:04:01,815

Jerome: Man, have we been three hours?

:

01:04:02,035 --> 01:04:02,435

Three?

:

01:04:03,185 --> 01:04:04,985

Chris: It's 160 minutes.

:

01:04:04,985 --> 01:04:05,975

I can't do math right now.

:

01:04:06,715 --> 01:04:07,105

Jerome: Well that's...

:

01:04:09,155 --> 01:04:10,665

But that's of only recorded time.

:

01:04:10,665 --> 01:04:11,645

We've taken breaks.

:

01:04:11,645 --> 01:04:13,965

Chris: Well, I paused during that break.

:

01:04:13,965 --> 01:04:16,775

So it's pretty much, I mean,

this is going to be a long...

:

01:04:17,195 --> 01:04:17,865

Two long ones.

:

01:04:17,865 --> 01:04:19,725

I mean, this is, uh, we split it in two.

:

01:04:19,725 --> 01:04:21,935

I think we're going to release

these in two separate episodes

:

01:04:21,965 --> 01:04:22,654

because it's worth it.

:

01:04:23,415 --> 01:04:27,485

Because who can sit through an

hour and 61 minutes of two guys...

:

01:04:28,175 --> 01:04:28,845

Drunk talking.

:

01:04:29,065 --> 01:04:31,345

Jerome: Unless you have

a long drive ahead of ya.

:

01:04:32,345 --> 01:04:34,245

Chris: Yeah, it's great for road trips.

:

01:04:34,675 --> 01:04:35,025

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:04:35,175 --> 01:04:37,325

Oh, the last time I went down to L.

:

01:04:37,325 --> 01:04:37,585

A.

:

01:04:38,145 --> 01:04:40,525

I listened to all of our old podcasts.

:

01:04:41,985 --> 01:04:43,545

It takes up the time, man.

:

01:04:43,745 --> 01:04:44,345

Chris: Yeah, it does.

:

01:04:45,165 --> 01:04:47,465

It's funny because you

anticipate what you're gonna say.

:

01:04:48,105 --> 01:04:48,435

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:04:49,185 --> 01:04:51,135

I'm always like, oh, here's

where I said that funny thing.

:

01:04:51,195 --> 01:04:53,625

Chris: We just totally

nerded out over ourselves.

:

01:04:53,625 --> 01:04:54,475

Can you believe this?

:

01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:55,870

Jerome: It's pretty gross.

:

01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:57,430

We just, you know what we did?

:

01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:03,029

We MIGs ourselves!

:

01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,360

I have to say, we set a

record on this one tonight.

:

01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:08,220

This was the first one you almost died.

:

01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:09,520

You almost died on air.

:

01:05:10,610 --> 01:05:11,720

Chris: You have no idea.

:

01:05:13,050 --> 01:05:13,700

Oh my god.

:

01:05:15,145 --> 01:05:20,965

Alright, well, until next time, uh,

cheers and go see some damn movies.

:

01:05:21,345 --> 01:05:22,565

Jerome: I'm Jerome Wiegand.

:

01:05:23,295 --> 01:05:24,125

Chris: I'm Chris Wiegand.

:

01:05:24,904 --> 01:05:26,175

Jerome: And we'll see you at the movies.

:

01:05:26,185 --> 01:05:26,795

Chris: See you at the movies.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jerome Wiegand

Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand