Episode 10

FatHARD: A Christmas Special - Die Hard (1988) vs. Fat Man (2020)

FatHARD: A Christmas Special - Die Hard (1988) vs. Fat Man (2020)

In this engaging and light-hearted episode, Chris and Jerome thoroughly analyze and compare two Christmas films, Die Hard (1988) and Fat Man (2020). They defend 'Die Hard' as a Christmas movie using nine strong points, appreciating its meticulously developed narrative structure and character arcs. On the other hand, they criticize 'Fat Man' for its lack of depth, coherence, and resolution in its narrative, pointing out its flaws even amid humor and fun-filled beverage indulgence.

00:01 Introduction and Christmas Movie Debate

00:44 Year in Review and Future Plans

01:23 Podcast Introduction and Hosts

01:33 Christmas Drinks and Banter

06:21 Movie Selection: Die Hard and Fatman

06:50 Die Hard: First Impressions and Memories

09:46 Fatman: A Deep Dive into the Script

12:32 Fatman: Critique and Analysis

36:54 Fatman: Final Thoughts and Listener Reviews

41:16 Breaking Arms and Making Jokes

41:35 The Humor in 'Fat Man'

41:53 The Confusion of Multiple Storylines

42:11 Government Funding and Weapon Production

42:37 Trivia Time: Casting Choices and Santa Portrayals

42:44 The Character of Billy and His Unexpected Casting Reason

43:10 The Politics of Casting Choices

43:30 Academy Award Winners Who Played Santa

45:45 The Art of Crocheting vs. Knitting

46:57 Moving on to 'Die Hard'

47:46 The Debate: Is 'Die Hard' a Christmas Movie?

48:22 The Structure and Beats of 'Die Hard'

58:06 The Climax and Resolution of 'Die Hard'

01:13:08 The Trivia and Behind-the-Scenes of 'Die Hard'

01:18:21 The Unexpected Hero: Deputy Chief of Police

01:18:44 The Second Act: Making Contact with McClain

01:19:04 The Midpoint Scene: Powell's False Victory

01:19:42 The FBI's Arrival: A New Challenge for Powell

01:21:23 The Climax: Powell's Redemption

01:22:45 The Power of a Solid 3 Act Structure

01:24:07 The Symbolism of the Gold Watch

01:24:34 The Importance of Character Arcs in Storytelling

01:27:16 The Final Verdict: Is Die Hard a Christmas Movie?

01:43:00 The Art of Connecting Actors: Six Degrees

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Transcript
Jerome:

Christmas isn't even mentioned in the It's a Wonderful Life logline, but

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it's mentioned in the Die Hard logline.

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So suck on that, people.

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Suck on that.

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Die Hard, I have just proven

to you, is a Christmas movie.

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I think the argument is dead now.

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We can move on.

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Chris: Well, I want to start

off by saying Merry Christmas.

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And if you're still not convinced that

Die Hard is a Christmas movie, trust

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me, my brother's got nine more points

to go over that and try to convince you.

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He even has some points debunking

common arguments arguing that Die

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Hard is not a Christmas movie.

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So stay tuned.

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2023 has been a great year for us.

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We've gotten into a groove.

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We're putting out at

least one episode a month.

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So, if you have not listened to

the rest of our episodes, we've

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got a little bit of a bank now,

so you can binge if you'd like.

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Well, this was a fun episode.

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I'm gonna get right into it, and

while I get the film roll going so

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you can listen, I just want to tell

you that we are working on:

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so come on back after the new year.

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Fat Hard, the Christmas episode.

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Jerome: Fat Hard!

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I love it.

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Fat Hard!

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Chris: Well let's get started.

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Let's do it.

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Welcome back to the Silver

Screen of Happy Hour.

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I'm Chris Wiegand, along

with my brother Jerome.

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Jerome: Hello.

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I have my bedroom voice today.

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Oh no, don't, no.

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In perfect holiday

fashion, I'm friggin sick.

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Yeah.

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And actually I'm getting over it now.

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It's a little bit of a cold.

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Are we gonna lead is this my

lead in, is this our segue

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into what we're drinking today?

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Yeah, we might as well.

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Okay, I'm going with NyQuil.

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Just kidding, just kidding, just kidding.

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So Aside from green, being mucus, what

color would you associate with Christmas?

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Red?

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Yes, look at what we're wearing, right?

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For those of you that can't

see us, we're actually decked

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out in Christmas outfits today.

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I'm wearing my Dwight from The

Office Christmas sweater, and he's

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got a big red nose, and the caption

says, With your nose, so Dwight.

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But anyway, so, I have

here A very nice bottle.

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It's called Red Breast.

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Oh, nice.

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It's an Irish whiskey, right?

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Because John McClane is Irish.

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So, oh, we haven't even

talked about the movies yet.

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Duh.

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But we will in a second.

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So anyway, Red Breast single pot

still Irish whiskey, age 12 years.

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This will be my NyQuil today.

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And I will be backing it up with

some of my usual lightsabers.

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You know that.

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I would not let the folks

over at Anheuser Busch down.

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I would never let you down.

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You know that my backups are McUltraTolls.

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Here we go.

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Are you ready?

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Yeah, I'm

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Chris: ready.

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Okay.

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Jerome: Here's to feeling

good all the time.

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Chris: Seinfeld Kramer reference.

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Jerome: I think I spilled

some of it on myself.

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Oh, no.

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Now I'm gonna smell like red breast.

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Chris: Well, it's not a Christmas

party until someone spills something.

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Jerome: It's not a Christmas party until

you spill whiskey all over yourself.

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Great.

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I have to explain that to my wife.

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Alright your turn.

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Chris: My turn.

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So I decided it's a Christmas episode,

so I was in Sam's Club the other

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day and saw this sorry, the noise.

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I didn't know how to keep this cold up

in the attic where I'm recording, and so

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I made another burrito out of the drink.

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Except this time it's eggnog.

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Since it's Christmas, I saw this

Southern Comfort eggnog at Sam's Club,

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and I thought, well, Southern Comfort,

I don't like Southern Comfort, so I'm

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not putting Southern Comfort in it.

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There's no Southern Comfort in this.

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But I will be adding a whiskey of my own.

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So let me pour a little bit of the

Southern Comfort eggnog into my cup.

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Oh boy, I'm gonna make a mess.

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I don't wanna do what I did last time.

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Jerome: He's gonna pour out

his white, creamy juices.

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Calls nuts.

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Chris: See if I can do

this without spilling.

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Jerome: For those of you that can't

see, he's wrapped ice packets around it

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Chris: like a, like it

sprained its ankle like

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Jerome: Yeah, like it fell off the roof

and, and he just duct taped ice packets

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around it to keep it from swelling.

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Chris: Yeah.

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So I got that and then I

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Jerome: didn't even hear you pour

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Chris: Well, it's eggnog, it doesn't

make a lot, it's, it's really smooth.

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And cream.

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I wanted to hear that.

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Creamy, wanted hear thick, heavy.

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Hold on, you can have me here.

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I should get this.

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Jerome: God, that's creepy.

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Chris: Slurp.

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Slurpy.

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Very creepy.

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I'm not a big eggnog person, but I

like a sweet drink once in a while.

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That's what she said.

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So, to mix, to mix the, in the eggnog,

I thought, this is a Hardcore, kind of

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a hard edge kind of a Christmas since

we're doing the movies that we're doing.

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And I just went to see Metallica

72 Seasons Tour in Detroit.

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And A couple days after the

concerts, I went to a liquor

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store and found their Blackened

Limited Edition 72 Seasons Whiskey.

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On a previous podcast, I did try

Blackened Whiskey with, it was the

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Sound of Metal, and Sound of a Lesser

God, that was the name of our episode.

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And I enjoyed the whiskey.

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So here we go.

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There we go.

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Ooh.

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Ooh, yeah.

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A little pour here.

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Let me get closer to the microphone.

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Clack, clack, clack.

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Jerome: Here we go.

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Chris: That's a shot and a half.

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Jerome: Oof.

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Oh, my God.

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That sounded so awesome.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah.

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I If anyone's listening to this

while they're driving, they're

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like, I gotta find a bar.

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I gotta find a bar now.

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Chris: I gotta turn off the road.

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Put that over there.

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Mix that up a little bit.

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Try a little swig.

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Oh

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Jerome: yeah.

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Oh.

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Yeah?

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Merry Christmas.

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Alright, cheers.

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Glasses up.

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Cheers.

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Cheers to the Christmas special.

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And Merry Christmas everybody.

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Chris: Been looking forward to this one.

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So we kicked around some other Christmas

movies, and you know, we were like

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you know, we enjoyed Home Alone and

different movies when we were younger.

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But I don't know.

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I was like, I would love to do Die Hard.

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So, we decided we're going with Die Hard

and a movie not too many people have

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heard about for probably good reason.

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Yes.

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Very good reason.

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Called Batman.

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That came out in 2020.

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Jerome, when did Die Hard

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Jerome: come out?

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So, Die Hard is 1988.

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My First memory of Die Hard was

mom rented it from Skips Video.

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Oh god, I remember Skips.

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Yeah, in Centerline, Michigan.

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What was that?

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Was that 10 Mile Road?

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Yeah, that was on 10 Mile.

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So Skips, Skips Liquor, Skips Video

Store was a convenient store that

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had a video store in the back.

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And it was on 10 Mile Road

in Centerline, Michigan.

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And, She brought it home one

night and on Friday night or

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whatever and we watched it.

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And, those were the nights,

those were the days when Dad

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used to play hockey on Fridays.

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Oh yeah.

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Right?

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So he'd be gone, and then we would

just you know, we'd watch movies.

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And I can't remember if, I

don't think Amy was there.

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I don't know where Amy was.

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I don't know where you were either.

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To be honest with you, I don't know

where either of my siblings were.

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But Mom and I watched Die Hard.

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Yeah.

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From Skip's video.

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Now this was 1988, it must have been

maybe Christmas time because, and

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we'll get to this later, but Die Hard

actually released in July of:

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and by the time it hit video it had

to have been around Christmas time.

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Oh yeah, makes sense.

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Um, And Good time for a Christmas rental.

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Yeah, good, good time for a

Christmas rental, exactly.

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So, cause dad was playing hockey and he

always played that in the winter time.

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So I was, geez, what was that then?

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88, I was 13?

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13 years old.

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A little young for an R rated film,

but there wasn't too much, I mean,

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aside from violence and language.

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You know, that was pretty much it.

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You know, that's, who cares

about that when you're 13.

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You're already getting ready

to get into high school.

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So, who cares.

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What about you?

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What was your first

experience with Die Hard?

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Chris: You know, I don't remember.

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Cause, I might have been in We

talked about this on the Sound

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of Metal in that episode as well.

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But I abused alcohol in high school.

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And so, 1988, around this time I

might, that's probably where I was.

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I might have been in uh, Maple Grove.

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Oh,

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Jerome: like actually there?

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Yeah,

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Chris: actually there.

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I got out in November.

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Really?

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Of 88?

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Yeah, I was there for like

four, five weeks, I think.

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So yeah, confessing the world here.

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But yeah, and honestly, we talked

about this on that episode.

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I look back fondly on all the

years that I spent clean and

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thankfully I do not have a problem.

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And uh, I abused it

certainly in high school.

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And, uh

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Jerome: You explained it a lot Yeah.

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more detail in that.

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I did.

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So if you want I would recommend you

guys, yeah, to go back and listen to that.

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Go back and listen to that.

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Chris: But that's probably

where I was when you were

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watching it for the first time.

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I don't remember the first time I saw it

because life got a little nuts after that.

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But I definitely loved it when I saw

it and I've seen it a million times, so

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Jerome: Yeah, absolutely.

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And we're pairing it today

with the:

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Master piece of shit.

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Fat man.

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Um, I'm just kidding Mel.

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I'm just kidding Mel,

it's not a piece of shit.

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It mostly is.

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But and we'll go over it.

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This is not exactly like

when we did Jaws vs.

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Jaws 4.

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If you, if any of you haven't

seen our YouTube video, it's

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about two and a half hours long.

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It doesn't sink to that level.

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Yeah Fatman is not on the level of Jaws 4.

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No.

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But if there was a Jaws 5,

then Fatman might be rare.

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However, however,

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Chris: I, I, I do, and I'm going to

say this probably a lot before the end

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of the podcast, but I highly recommend

you, Have some friends over, you know,

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make it a drinking game or something,

but like we talked about in the Jaws

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episode, but it's, it's a fun movie

to watch if you're with other people.

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I was like, oh my gosh, I couldn't

believe it, but let's get into it.

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Jerome: Yeah, like we're

going to do Fat Man first.

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Obviously we want to save Die Hard

for the end, but but just a couple

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of notes on Fat Man before we get in.

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My issues with Fat Man, and we had, I've

had these whenever we do these podcasts.

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There's movies that I love,

but the scripts are a mess.

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You know, we, there's been movies where

we like, like Norma Rae, remember?

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We're like, man, the whole

first half of Norma Rae sucked.

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Like, it does, it does

slow, it didn't get moving.

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Second half was so much better.

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Overall, it's a good movie, right?

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This this is kind of one of those

things where fat man is a fun movie to

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watch it is fun It had a fun concept.

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Chris: It's Ridiculous, it's a ridiculous

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Jerome: Ridiculous concept the

elves to me stole the show.

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I I fucking love the elves in the

North Pole They steal the show but

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but the script obviously I feel is

a mess and we're gonna talk about

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why So let's dig right into fat man.

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If you haven't seen it Mel

Gibson plays, of course, Chris

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Kringle, the actual Santa Claus.

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So this film was written and directed by

Esham and Ian Nelms, they're brothers.

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I believe they're brothers.

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I'm assuming they're brothers.

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So I'm gonna start with the logline.

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And remember, why is

the logline important?

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Because the logline is your premise.

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It's the movie.

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It's the reason you came

to the movie, right?

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It's the reason why you went to go see it.

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It's basically your act two.

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Because act one is all set up.

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And then you have the thing that

drives the character into Act

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2, and Act 2 is your logline.

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That's what the story's about.

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And that's gonna be important.

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Because listen to this logline.

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A rowdy, unorthodox Santa Claus is

fighting to save his declining business.

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Meanwhile, Billy, a neglected and

precocious 12 year old, hires a

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hitman to kill Santa after receiving

a lump of coal in his stocking.

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So right off the bat, we have a problem.

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Now I get that the writers of Fat

Man did not write this logline,

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but you have two stories going

on already in the logline alone.

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Yeah.

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And I think whoever writes loglines

for stuff like IMDb or the back

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of a DVD or whatever, they have to

determine what the damn movie's about.

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Right.

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And even they obviously had

trouble because they gave me

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two stories in one logline.

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And the reason why they have trouble?

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I can't tell you.

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What the story is.

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I don't know if it's one or the other.

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Because I can't even tell you

who the damn main character is.

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And I'll tell you why.

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Because there's no arcs.

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There's no structure to it.

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Chris: It's just sort of like They

basically wanted to just have a story

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where a little kid is pissed off at Santa

and he hires an assassin to kill him.

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Jerome: And that's fine

if that's your story.

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If that's just the story, that's it.

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Okay.

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Alright.

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Alright.

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Alright.

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So here we go.

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The beats.

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If anybody listened to our

podcast before, the beats.

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These are the points that you need to

hit when you're writing your story.

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And you know, we used to harp on when

it happened, like the minute mark.

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I still kind of think that's

important for pacing reasons.

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It's fun to look at.

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I've laid off it a little bit.

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As long as you hit the beats in

order, everything should work fine.

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Alright, opening image, usually a

mirror flip of your closing image,

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but the opening image here is ice

being scraped off a windshield.

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A little maybe subtle, subtlety there.

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Theme stated.

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I can't really put my finger on one.

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Did you, could you really

pick out a theme stated?

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No.

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So, and I, this is what

I wrote down in my notes.

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Mostly it's because, I don't

know whose story this is.

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Alright?

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If it's Santa, the closest thing

we have to a theme is when Mrs.

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Claus says to, by the way, he's outside,

practicing, like, shooting his gun.

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He's firing off his gun.

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And Mrs.

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Claus says to Fat Man, You

have fun shooting in the trash.

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That's what she says to him.

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That's not really a theme.

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To me, it's kind of a

setup and payoff, right?

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Because of the climax of the movie.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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So, it's kind of like a setup.

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A little foreshadow.

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Yeah, a little foreshadow.

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You have fun shooting the trash.

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But, that's not really a theme.

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Mm hmm.

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That doesn't, at least that

doesn't carry throughout the film.

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If he is the lead, and he's, and

he's clearly Like, if you watch the

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film, he's pining for a world that

has sort of changed on, on his watch,

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and he's not happy with, right?

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The world is different now.

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Kids don't earn their presents, there's no

love in the world anymore, it's all crap.

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And I get it, and that would have

been a cool story too, right?

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A Santa sort of like trying to deal

with how the world has changed.

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Chris: And that's a theme you've

seen in kind of some other Santa

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movies, like Buddy the Elf Santa.

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He was like, you couldn't rely on

Christmas spirit anymore, so they

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had to have the rocket on the sleigh.

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Yeah.

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That kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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They didn't really go anywhere

with that, this idea though.

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Jerome: Right, and if that was the story.

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Right.

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Mrs.

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Claus would have served as a

perfect sort of, like, B story.

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But, obviously, she's

introduced way too early.

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She's introduced in, like, the second

scene, instead of where she would come

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in later if she was the B story, right?

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Great casting, by the way, on Mrs.

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Claus.

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Marianne Jean Baptiste, who I've known

since Secrets and Lies was the first

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movie I ever saw, and that was, like, 96.

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She's popped up in movies

every now and again since then.

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I love her.

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I think she's great.

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And a perfect fit for Mrs.

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Claus.

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Yeah.

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Because it catches you off guard.

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Like, I think even Mel said

in an interview, he's like,

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A British black woman as Mrs.

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Claus.

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I thought it was great too.

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Yeah, he's like, we couldn't

have picked a better person.

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It's pretty funny.

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It was a great casting choice.

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And she's great.

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She really does serve as sort of

the B story throughout the film.

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Chris: And I, I appreciated like

her personality and presence

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that, that she brought to the,

to the movie compared to Mel's.

405

:

To Right.

406

:

Compared to the fat man.

407

:

Jerome: Yeah, because

she brings the heart.

408

:

Yeah.

409

:

He's the anger, right?

410

:

He is the world's anger and

angst, and she's the world's love.

411

:

Right?

412

:

So, again, if you were to cut out all

the crap about the kid and just made

413

:

that the crux of the story where he

needs to learn and she has to teach him

414

:

how to accept the world as it is and

stop being such a grumpy pants, like,

415

:

that, that could have been the story.

416

:

Yeah.

417

:

Right?

418

:

Chris: We might have a fat man franchise.

419

:

Jerome: Yes.

420

:

So, okay, so this is me trying to

figure out who the main character is.

421

:

If the main character is Billy, And it

could be, because it's kind of set up, if

422

:

you look at the logline, the kid hires a

hitman to kill Santa, so is he the lead?

423

:

If he is the lead, because the first

act, mind you, is mostly about his

424

:

setup and development, then, here's the

problem, and we saw this in Jaws 4, then

425

:

the supposed main character disappears.

426

:

He largely disappears as the

story shifts into the hitman.

427

:

Right?

428

:

He, he checks in a couple

of times just for updates.

429

:

How's it going?

430

:

Have you found him yet?

431

:

The whole first act is about this kid

and then he just, like, we forget him.

432

:

He's not even part of the story anymore.

433

:

I even threw in here a third one.

434

:

What if the main character is Skinny?

435

:

That's the name of the

hitman by the way, Skinny.

436

:

Yeah, cause he had a story arc too.

437

:

Right, I said if so, there is some

backstory to show the motivation.

438

:

But certainly unfulfilling

resolution, right?

439

:

Right.

440

:

Like, if he is built up as one of the

main characters, his resolution is shit.

441

:

Yeah.

442

:

He doesn't get any payoff

for his motivation.

443

:

Chris: Tell the audience

who Skinny is in this film.

444

:

Jerome: Okay, so Skinny is the

hitman that was hired by Billy.

445

:

Billy's the 12 year old.

446

:

Skinny is played by Walt Goggins.

447

:

Those of you that are fans of

Justified or The Shield would know him.

448

:

Great actor, I love him, and he, by

the way, aside from the elves, he also

449

:

steals the show because he, he's got some

great moments in this movie, some funny

450

:

moments, and that's why I kept battling

with, what if this was Skinny's story?

451

:

This would be cool if it was Skinny's

story, that he got hired to kill Santa,

452

:

and on his journey to go kill Santa, he

realizes the pain in his childhood, right?

453

:

Yeah, he's redeemed somehow, you're right.

454

:

Right.

455

:

And then he gets redemption somehow

and he becomes a better person.

456

:

None of that shit happens.

457

:

It's got great setup and then his

resolution is absolute garbage.

458

:

And it's, and it's almost sad

because, well, we'll get to it.

459

:

We'll get to it.

460

:

So I wrote on here, right at theme

stated, I wrote, so right off the

461

:

bat, we have problems with who's

the lead and what's the theme.

462

:

Right.

463

:

All right.

464

:

Inciting incident, which

is normally the catalyst.

465

:

The government presents itself to Santa

for a deal to make military weapons, but

466

:

If Billy's the lead, then it would be

when he gets coal in his stocking, right?

467

:

That would be the catalyst.

468

:

Yeah.

469

:

So we have two catalysts, because we

have two stories going on right now.

470

:

And I put, which based on the log

line, suggests Billy is the lead.

471

:

So the real catalyst would be

he finds coal in his stocking.

472

:

Now, why did he get coal in his stocking?

473

:

They spend an awful lot of time in Act

1 on showing how spoiled and bitchy

474

:

he is, and that he will torture.

475

:

A classmate in order to

win a science fair project.

476

:

Not just

477

:

Chris: him, but he has.

478

:

The hitman torture a classmate.

479

:

Oh

480

:

Jerome: yeah, Skinny's on his payroll.

481

:

He doesn't just hire

482

:

Chris: him to kill Santa.

483

:

These are felony offenses,

like, for lots of time.

484

:

Jerome: Absolutely.

485

:

It didn't make sense.

486

:

And that's his character setup, right?

487

:

They spend a lot of

time in Act 1 with that.

488

:

So that by the time you get to his

catalyst, his inciting incident,

489

:

where he finds coal in his stocking,

he gets pissed off and he wants to

490

:

hire Skinny to kill Santa, right?

491

:

Because that's what this kid

has learned his whole life is.

492

:

Whenever I have a problem, I'll

just hire a, a, a hitman or a, a Mr.

493

:

Fix It, you know what's the guy

from fucking Mike Ehrmantraut.

494

:

Yeah, Mike Ehrmantraut, or I was

actually thinking Pulp Fiction.

495

:

Yeah.

496

:

I tell the character, right?

497

:

The fixer the wolf.

498

:

You know, that's all Billy's

gotta do is hire the wolf, you

499

:

know, and fix his problems.

500

:

So, yeah, so, alright, so hang on, let

me, I need, I need, I need another sip

501

:

of scotch here for breaking into Act 2.

502

:

Alright, so Act 2, we break into Act

2, Billy hires Skinny to kill Santa.

503

:

Meanwhile in perfect confusion

on whose story this is, Santa

504

:

decides to take the government job.

505

:

So now in two stories being told at once,

and by the way, and here's another problem

506

:

with this, Santa doesn't even know.

507

:

That Billy has hired a hitman to kill

him, until the climax of the movie.

508

:

He's completely oblivious

to what's going on.

509

:

So it's one thing if you're like,

well it's cool that there's two

510

:

stories, shit, you know, Magnolia's

like, you know, eight stories going

511

:

on at once, and blah blah blah.

512

:

Yeah, but there's usually some

sort of interweaving connection.

513

:

Like Santa's story has got

literally nothing to do with Billy.

514

:

At all.

515

:

In his story, at all.

516

:

Except for the fact that he exists.

517

:

Okay.

518

:

I write in here, here's the biggest

problem in poorly written scripts.

519

:

Act one set up takes so long that

by the time we get to the break into

520

:

two, a scene or two later, you're

already at the midpoint scene.

521

:

Right?

522

:

And we, and I think we mentioned

that before, that your midpoint scene

523

:

comes in the middle of the film.

524

:

That's why you can't Push that,

again, Norma Rae had this problem.

525

:

You can't push your, your break into two,

which is your basically your act two,

526

:

start point, your log line starting point.

527

:

You can't push that too late.

528

:

If you spend your entire act one

on setup, it becomes not just act

529

:

one, the first half of the film.

530

:

Right.

531

:

On setup.

532

:

And then you get to the inciting incident,

and then like a scene or two later you're

533

:

already at the midpoint scene, and your

story has to change direction again.

534

:

Remember, the midpoint

scene is not just clock.

535

:

It's not just, oh, it's a two hour

film and it came at the one hour point.

536

:

It's an actual story shift.

537

:

There is something that happens

at the midpoint to change the

538

:

direction of the characters.

539

:

Right, right.

540

:

So, midpoint scene.

541

:

Santa's offered a long time gig

to work with the government.

542

:

So here's what happens.

543

:

So, Santa accepted this one time deal.

544

:

He made money on it.

545

:

He got excited because, you

know, Santa needs money.

546

:

And because of it, he thinks, okay,

well, we'll do this long term.

547

:

All that happens between

the first turning point.

548

:

And the midpoint, not very exciting.

549

:

So who is it?

550

:

Is it Santa's story?

551

:

Or is it fucking Billy's story?

552

:

I did put though, that does sound

like Santa achieved his tangible goal.

553

:

If Santa is the lead, that

was his tangible goal, right?

554

:

He needs money.

555

:

He wants money.

556

:

He needs money to keep

the operation going.

557

:

And he achieves that

at the midpoint scene.

558

:

We always say that you should get your

tangible goal at the midpoint scene.

559

:

Spiritual goal is something

you're going to learn later.

560

:

Right, right.

561

:

But he does get his tangible.

562

:

If he's the lead, he got his

tangible goal at the midpoint scene.

563

:

And I

564

:

Chris: think it's right around

this point that I have a quote

565

:

from my wife, because I made her

sit there and watch this with me.

566

:

And the quote from Jessie, she says,

This movie is making me hate the

567

:

fact that people can make movies.

568

:

Jerome: That's, by the way, that

might be the greatest line of

569

:

criticism I might have ever heard.

570

:

I never even heard Siskel and

Ebert say something that great.

571

:

Like that, when you text that to

me, I was like, that That should

572

:

go on some people's tombstone, man.

573

:

That's like, that is like

a great line of criticism.

574

:

And

575

:

Chris: I'll point out something

else that, when you're done here,

576

:

because she pointed out a mistake, a

flaw that she spotted in this movie.

577

:

Jerome: So.

578

:

Wait, in this one?

579

:

I thought you said it was in Die Hard.

580

:

Chris: No, no, nope.

581

:

I'm sorry.

582

:

I was wrong.

583

:

Yeah, before we started recording

we were talking and I think

584

:

I mistakenly said Die Hard.

585

:

Oh, so it is

586

:

Jerome: in Fat Man?

587

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

588

:

Oh, well then that makes it okay.

589

:

When you told me there was

a goof in Die Hard, I was

590

:

Chris: like, I'm ready to fight

591

:

Jerome: somebody.

592

:

Nope, it's in this movie.

593

:

So at the midpoint scene, if Billy's

the lead, what's his midpoint

594

:

scene, what's his tangible goal?

595

:

We don't know, you know why?

596

:

Cause he's missing, he's M.

597

:

I.

598

:

A.

599

:

now.

600

:

We don't see Billy again, other

than checking in with Skinny, to

601

:

find out updates, like, have you

found him yet, blah blah blah.

602

:

Other than that, we don't see Billy

again until near the end of the film.

603

:

So, all that set up in Act 1 was for what?

604

:

Right.

605

:

For nothing.

606

:

Shit.

607

:

Garbage.

608

:

Alright.

609

:

Second half of the film,

everything goes to shit.

610

:

Bad guys closing in.

611

:

Approximately an hour and five

minutes into the film, Billy

612

:

makes an appearance again.

613

:

One hour and five minutes in.

614

:

We see Billy again after not seeing

him since basically the turning

615

:

point, the first turning point.

616

:

This is the first time we've

seen him since Breaking into Two.

617

:

He tells Skinny he wants a souvenir.

618

:

That's it.

619

:

He just called Skinny to say

he wants a souvenir of the

620

:

killing after he killed Santa.

621

:

That's all we get from Billy.

622

:

And then he disappears again for a

623

:

Chris: while.

624

:

What purpose did that

have to propel the story

625

:

Jerome: forward?

626

:

Honestly, when I saw it, I was like,

they're just doing this so that

627

:

we don't forget that Billy exists.

628

:

Right?

629

:

Right?

630

:

Because otherwise, why the fuck

would we even remember this kid?

631

:

Yeah.

632

:

He's disappeared.

633

:

All is lost.

634

:

Now, this is where everything goes to

shit, absolute shit, in any good film.

635

:

This is where you really feel

that all the hope is lost.

636

:

And you don't know how you're going to

achieve your goals, your spiritual goals.

637

:

Skinny discovers where the fat man is.

638

:

And I put, but then, who's the lead?

639

:

Is Skinny the lead now?

640

:

There is no all is lost for Billy,

since he's still not around yet.

641

:

Other than that one check

in, we don't see him again.

642

:

So, he doesn't have an all is lost.

643

:

And if the all is lost is the

worst possible moment, it could

644

:

be that the assassin finds him.

645

:

But Santa doesn't know the

Assassin's looking for him.

646

:

So that can't be Santa's all is lost.

647

:

Right?

648

:

Like, again, if he had known, then

they could be like, We discovered

649

:

that Skinny knows where we are.

650

:

Like, that could be Yeah.

651

:

Oh my god.

652

:

Yeah, he's gotta know that Right.

653

:

Like, now we have to be on alert.

654

:

We have to get the elves all machine guns.

655

:

And we have to, you know, whatever.

656

:

Yeah, but none of that shit happens.

657

:

None of that.

658

:

We don't even know.

659

:

Santa doesn't even know

Skinny's looking for him.

660

:

So there is really no all is lost.

661

:

DaRk Night of the Soul is supposed to

come right after the All is Lost, where

662

:

your main character has lost everything

and now has to figure out how to win.

663

:

Obviously, if we didn't have an

All is Lost, we're not going to

664

:

have a Dark Night of the Soul.

665

:

I even put, says, Fat Man is unaware of

the bad things that's about to happen.

666

:

Odd for someone who sees

everything, by the way.

667

:

I don't know if you noticed

that little plot point.

668

:

Everybody he sees in the movie, he's

like, Hey, Denise, how are the kids?

669

:

And Denise would be like, Who the fuck is

this guy and how does he know I have kids?

670

:

Cause he's Santa, so he sees everything.

671

:

Can he see that Skinny

is coming to kill him?

672

:

No, he doesn't see any of that.

673

:

Alright So I put away, I have

no dark night of the soul.

674

:

Break into three, Skinny

reaches the compound.

675

:

This is the best part I can amount to

say that this is the third act now.

676

:

Right?

677

:

Is that Skinny gets to the compound,

loaded up with his guns, and he's

678

:

ready to take out Santa Claus.

679

:

I'm assuming this is now the third act.

680

:

There is no storyline to push that.

681

:

I'm just guessing based on time.

682

:

It's like the last half hour.

683

:

We're running out of time.

684

:

I'm assuming it's the third act now.

685

:

Alright, what are we talking about?

686

:

The third act always has what?

687

:

Five point finale.

688

:

Here we go.

689

:

Point number one.

690

:

Assembling the team.

691

:

or Gathering the team.

692

:

Skinny takes out the guards

and enters the compound.

693

:

So, he doesn't really gather

the team, he's already there.

694

:

But he just kills guards to get in.

695

:

Okay, fine.

696

:

Execution of the plan.

697

:

Skinny kills many elves and

people and blows up the workshop.

698

:

High tower surprise.

699

:

Wait!

700

:

I've I'm telling you this as if

Skinny's the lead, by the way.

701

:

So, in this version, Skinny's

back to being the lead.

702

:

What, what is Fat Man doing at this

time, by the way, since you asked?

703

:

Nothing.

704

:

Like he's not, like, when the workshop

blows up, that's when they discover

705

:

there's an intruder in the compound.

706

:

Yeah.

707

:

Right?

708

:

Okay, so wait, so is this

Santa's Hightower surprise?

709

:

Or is this Skinny's Hightower Surprise?

710

:

I don't know!

711

:

I don't know who the lead is!

712

:

Okay, Dig Down Deep, let's assume the mano

a mano face off between Fatman and Skinny

713

:

is the Dig Down Deep for both, right?

714

:

Because they do have a moment, and again,

what's so frustrating about that scene

715

:

is it might be the best written scene of

the movie, but because it had shit for

716

:

setup and shit for payoff, it falls flat.

717

:

He knows who he is when he sees him.

718

:

He calls them by his name.

719

:

Yep.

720

:

And Walt Doggins does give this

great, I'm here to kill you, fat man!

721

:

Great moment.

722

:

But then there's this really

heartfelt moment where he's like,

723

:

you know, even, even, there's,

there's limits to even what I can do.

724

:

And I can't bring your parents, or

I couldn't bring your parents back.

725

:

Man, what a loaded line, you know,

you get this idea that when Walt

726

:

Goggins was a child, when Skinny

was a child, he'd lost his parents.

727

:

Yeah.

728

:

And he asked Santa for new parents,

or to bring his parents back.

729

:

Chris: And if this was his arc,

if he was the lead, and his story,

730

:

his redemption arc, it would

have been a perfect lead in to

731

:

Jerome: that.

732

:

That's why I was so pissed.

733

:

I actually paused it to go grab

another beer when I was watching it.

734

:

And I was angrily getting the beer out

of the fridge and angrily opening it.

735

:

I'm like, man, they fucking had a chance.

736

:

They had a chance.

737

:

That's a great moment.

738

:

Like I said, probably the best

written moment of the movie.

739

:

Right.

740

:

And it falls so flat, because it

has zero resolution after that.

741

:

Yeah.

742

:

I'm getting angry right

now, just retelling it.

743

:

Sip your

744

:

Chris: whiskey.

745

:

Jerome: Yeah, okay.

746

:

So surprise to nobody, execution

of the new plan, Skinny kills Fat

747

:

Man, and then he's killed by Mrs.

748

:

Claus.

749

:

Now I know what you're saying.

750

:

What?

751

:

He kills Santa Claus?

752

:

Don't worry, he's not really dead.

753

:

You know, Santa can't

be killed that easily.

754

:

So, I wrote here, wait, maybe Mrs.

755

:

Claus was the lead this whole time,

and the resolution is her resolution.

756

:

Cause she's the one that kills Skinny.

757

:

In a kitchen, with very little fanfare,

very little hoop, hoopla, or hype, or

758

:

excitement, all she says is I'm sorry

for this, or something like that.

759

:

Like I'm sorry, and then she kills him.

760

:

So he has no redemption.

761

:

The fact that his parents died

when he was a child, he doesn't

762

:

earn that redemption back.

763

:

Mm hmm.

764

:

There's no regret.

765

:

He doesn't earn the regret, you

know, like oh, I'm gonna pull

766

:

probably a bad example here.

767

:

Dogma, which was a Kevin Smith movie.

768

:

Won the Catholics off, very much said

it was sacrilegious of a movie, because

769

:

they poke a lot of fun at religion.

770

:

And in the movie, Matt Damon and Ben

Affleck play, play fallen angels.

771

:

That want to pretty much

destroy the universe, right?

772

:

And when they get to the end, and

they're about to do it, they're about

773

:

to open the doors of the church,

and that's gonna allow all the bad

774

:

shit to happen, blah, blah, blah.

775

:

I mean, I'm not, I'm just

paraphrasing at this point.

776

:

God comes out.

777

:

Of course, God's played

by Alanis Morissette, for

778

:

anyone that's seen the movie.

779

:

But the second he sees her, Matt

Damon's character, or no, it's Ben

780

:

Affleck's character, he starts crying.

781

:

And he falls to his knees, and he's

like, I'm sorry, like, he was filled

782

:

with rage the whole movie, but when

he sees God face to face, he crumbles.

783

:

This could have had a perfect moment

like that, where he's there to kill

784

:

Santa, and he's killing elves, and

he's killing the military guys,

785

:

and he's blowing up the workshop.

786

:

But when he gets face to face with

Santa, could have been a great

787

:

heartfelt moment about, I asked

you to bring my parents back.

788

:

Right.

789

:

And you couldn't even do

that for me, you know?

790

:

Like, man, they had so much opportunity!

791

:

And they fucking blew it, and I'm mad now!

792

:

But so you get my point, like,

there was so much there that

793

:

could have happened that didn't.

794

:

Instead he dies in a kitchen,

with no redemption, no follow up,

795

:

and then, resolution, surprise

to nobody, Santa isn't dead.

796

:

He just has a big hole

where his eye used to be.

797

:

And then he goes, and he

goes to yell at Billy.

798

:

That's the first time now

we've seen Billy in a while.

799

:

Right, where he's back to

being the lead again, I guess.

800

:

He and Mrs.

801

:

Claus kind of mend their feelings about

the cruel world which, by the way,

802

:

hasn't changed, and he hasn't saved.

803

:

So, if Santa's storyline Was in regards

to how the world has changed, not much

804

:

has changed there either, other than

he's in a better mood now, I guess.

805

:

Because he's, he's under government

contract, so he has money now.

806

:

I don't know.

807

:

But that was his tangible goal.

808

:

He achieves that at the midpoint scene.

809

:

So, by Mrs.

810

:

Claus killing the hitman that

came to kill him, Somehow gives

811

:

him this new lease on life.

812

:

I don't know, because he

couldn't have been killed anyway.

813

:

Right.

814

:

The whole movie they talk about how

people shoot at him on Christmas

815

:

Eve, whenever he goes out.

816

:

Yeah.

817

:

And sometimes he comes

home with new bullet holes.

818

:

Chris: I like when he yelled at

him, You think you're the first?

819

:

Or something like that.

820

:

Jerome: Yeah.

821

:

Again, those are elements that could

have made up for a great storyline.

822

:

Right.

823

:

About Santa's always getting

shot at, because people

824

:

don't know he's really Santa.

825

:

Right.

826

:

So, you know, he managed to scare

one little prick into submission,

827

:

while killing an assassin.

828

:

Actually, again, the frustrating part is

the assassin had the most depth in the

829

:

movie, and he's the most in need of a hug.

830

:

Yeah.

831

:

Right?

832

:

Right.

833

:

And what do they do?

834

:

They kill him in their kitchen.

835

:

So I don't know any spiritual

goal that was achieved, at all.

836

:

So, yeah, I mean, so there's

no, there's no resolution.

837

:

Nobody has achieved any

sort of a spiritual goal.

838

:

That's the shitty part of it.

839

:

THe closing image, which is the

opposite of the opening image.

840

:

There's kind of one there.

841

:

The opening image was scraping

ice off of a windshield.

842

:

The closing image, they're

rebuilding the workshop.

843

:

So, scraping off, building up.

844

:

Kind of opposites, which is kind of cool.

845

:

But again, there's no real storyline

finish, just that they have to rebuild

846

:

the workshop, and they're gonna continue

being under government contract.

847

:

Pretty much nothing that happened

in the movie really mattered.

848

:

It didn't really change anyone's life

except, I guess, kind of Billy's.

849

:

Because he, Santa came and told him

to stop being such a prick, basically.

850

:

Right.

851

:

Right?

852

:

And he says, I'm keeping

my eye on you, right?

853

:

And he pulls up the eye

patch and shows that

854

:

Chris: he only has one eye left.

855

:

Actually, I quoted that, the fat

man's got his eye on you, kid.

856

:

Jerome: Yeah, yeah, so that's

like supposed to be the big, the

857

:

big hit at the end of the movie?

858

:

Yeah, I was like, oh man.

859

:

Yeah, okay.

860

:

So,

861

:

Chris: it was a groaner.

862

:

It was such a groaner.

863

:

Yeah.

864

:

Yeah, actually.

865

:

It made you angry you know, the

screenwriter in you was just freaking out.

866

:

So,

867

:

Jerome: anyways.

868

:

And again, I don't get angry

because it was poorly written.

869

:

When I get angry, it's, and this has

happened in other films as well, I get

870

:

angry when I see that there was potential

and they dropped the fucking ball.

871

:

Yeah, right.

872

:

That's what I get angry about, right?

873

:

I don't get angry that the

Lions didn't get a first down.

874

:

I'll get angry if they ran for

the first down and then fumbled.

875

:

That's what happened here.

876

:

They got the first down and

fumbled the fucking ball.

877

:

Like, that's what I get pissed off about.

878

:

Because there was so

much potential with this.

879

:

Now, all that shit aside, there

is some fun to this movie.

880

:

Yeah, absolutely.

881

:

So, Skinny, I think, Had the

best change, at all, somewhat.

882

:

He didn't, again, there was no resolution.

883

:

But, he had the, kind of,

he had the most at stake.

884

:

Sort of, like his personal

demons, with Santa.

885

:

He had the best opportunity for growth.

886

:

More than Billy, I think.

887

:

A hitman never cares for anything, right?

888

:

He's got no affection for life,

that's why they're a hitman.

889

:

And because of Santa's neglect,

He's going on this journey.

890

:

It could help him grow

and care for something.

891

:

So that whole subplot about the

hamster, that could have been, that

892

:

would have been better served if

that came near the end of the film.

893

:

And he kind of learned an

appreciation for living things.

894

:

Right?

895

:

Right.

896

:

Right.

897

:

But somehow they kind of shoehorn

this in throughout the whole film.

898

:

He's got this running gag, sort of this

running story, that he loves his hamster.

899

:

I don't know why, but he

does care for something.

900

:

Yeah.

901

:

Right?

902

:

Chris: But yeah, they just

didn't tie it all together.

903

:

I mean, it was just a mess.

904

:

Jerome: So, so that's what I'm saying.

905

:

There's no growth there because he

already does care for something.

906

:

Yeah.

907

:

It's hamster.

908

:

Well, like I said

909

:

Chris: at the beginning, if you're

not going to watch this for I guess

910

:

for the quality of the screenplay

and the script and everything.

911

:

Watch it for the humor of

like, really how bad it is.

912

:

And have some friends over.

913

:

And this is something I told

you before we started recording.

914

:

I have an audio I'd like to play.

915

:

Can I play that now?

916

:

Yes, go for it.

917

:

My daughter, Lyndsey, and her

husband, Ben watched this movie.

918

:

I think they were on an

airplane when they watched it.

919

:

And because they, maybe because

they're a captive audience and

920

:

they couldn't yell at the, at the

TV, and they actually enjoyed it.

921

:

And, anyways, I'm gonna let them

share their thoughts on Fat Man.

922

:

Lyndsey: So the interesting thing

about watching Fatman for the

923

:

first time was that I walked into

it with absolutely no context.

924

:

and was very confused.

925

:

But I have to say, I think the

watching a Christmas movie that

926

:

has a ton of violence has become

one of our new holiday traditions.

927

:

Ben: It definitely has become a holiday

tradition and the first time I watched Fat

928

:

Man it felt like if Santa Claus and John

McClane had a baby, that would be Fat Man.

929

:

Exactly.

930

:

Chris: So I don't know about that

because, John McClane had some

931

:

stinker movies too, I would say.

932

:

Jerome: I am not adding Fat

Man to my holiday tradition.

933

:

I can

934

:

Chris: guarantee you that right now.

935

:

But they are, I think what they are

saying is they added violent Christmas

936

:

movies to their holiday tradition.

937

:

And there are a couple

now, at least I know.

938

:

So anyways, I thought it was

funny when they sent that to me.

939

:

But yeah, so it, you know, if you want.

940

:

If you, if you want a movie that is,

it might destroy a few brain cells, but

941

:

You know, if you're just looking at a

movie to throw popcorn at the TV and yell

942

:

at it, this is definitely your movie.

943

:

Jerome: Yeah, so so I'm not going to harp

anymore about arc and character arcs.

944

:

We know that there's shit in this movie.

945

:

But I'll give you some funny parts.

946

:

There is some really comedy, there's

some real comedy in this movie.

947

:

Excuse me.

948

:

At one moment, the military guys are

trying to move this big ass truck, right?

949

:

It's stuck in the snow.

950

:

And Santa comes up and

lifts it with one arm.

951

:

And to try to explain that when

they're all staying there in awe, he

952

:

just looks at him and goes, steroids.

953

:

Yeah.

954

:

I thought that was pretty funny.

955

:

And then so the elves, to me, like I

said earlier, the elves steal the show.

956

:

The elves are, provide

some of the best humor.

957

:

When they're talking about their

diet and their sleep schedule,

958

:

for example, they're talking about

all the carbs and sugar they eat.

959

:

And he's talking to the military

guy who's like, well, you guys

960

:

need eight hours of sleep a night.

961

:

And the elf seven, that's

the leader elf seven.

962

:

He goes every, this is a quote.

963

:

Every elf takes a 20 minute nap every

eight hours, keeps our bodies fresh and

964

:

allows us to work in a 24 hour rotation.

965

:

And then at one point, Santa's

talking to elf number seven.

966

:

And he says they're, they're, they're

happy how things are going, right?

967

:

They're, they're building all

this shit for the military.

968

:

And Santa says, when have

you ever seen it go perfect?

969

:

And Elf 7 goes, 1910 was close.

970

:

Like, I just saw a random

obscure line, like, Right.

971

:

Kind of gives you an idea how

many centuries, you know, how

972

:

long they've been doing this, how

many years has Santa been around.

973

:

Right.

974

:

But it was just funny, 1910 was close.

975

:

Like, they almost had a

perfect Christmas in:

976

:

Um.

977

:

The military guy asks L seven

why he wasn't promoted to

978

:

Elf one and he gets offended.

979

:

Elf seven's like, we

don't reissue numbers.

980

:

It would be unethical and disrespectful.

981

:

. Yeah.

982

:

Chris: And he gained the military

guy's respect when he said

983

:

Jerome: that.

984

:

Oh yeah.

985

:

Yeah.

986

:

I respect that.

987

:

Because the military guy.

988

:

Yeah, the military guy's like, I

can respect that like , because

989

:

he even says, he goes, what

happened to elves one through six?

990

:

And they have all this look on their face.

991

:

Like, oh, we don't talk

about that . You know,

992

:

So skinny is particularly my,

probably my favorite, most enjoyable

993

:

character other than Elf 7.

994

:

Except for the fact he

has no payoff at the end.

995

:

But when he's sparring, they

show him sparring, like, MMA

996

:

sparring with an opponent.

997

:

Yeah.

998

:

At the gym, and he breaks this guy's arm.

999

:

Oh

:

00:41:08,879 --> 00:41:09,809

Chris: yeah, that was brutal.

:

00:41:09,869 --> 00:41:11,009

Jerome: I was like, oh god.

:

00:41:11,009 --> 00:41:14,669

And when everybody runs to the guy's

aid, he gets up, and he's almost

:

00:41:14,949 --> 00:41:16,449

like announcing it like he's happy.

:

00:41:16,449 --> 00:41:17,279

He's like, I broke his arm.

:

00:41:17,499 --> 00:41:18,009

I broke his arm.

:

00:41:18,294 --> 00:41:18,944

I broke his arm.

:

00:41:18,945 --> 00:41:19,874

Yeah, yeah.

:

00:41:19,894 --> 00:41:22,054

He's letting, he's letting

everyone know that he did it.

:

00:41:22,514 --> 00:41:26,454

Later, like he said when he says, I'm here

for the fat man, and the guy asks, who?

:

00:41:26,454 --> 00:41:28,214

And he goes, Santa Claus, motherfucker.

:

00:41:30,894 --> 00:41:32,784

I actually laughed out

loud when that happened.

:

00:41:35,034 --> 00:41:37,704

So yeah, so Walt Goggins

provides a lot of the humor.

:

00:41:37,794 --> 00:41:39,984

Elf 7 provides a lot of the humor.

:

00:41:40,264 --> 00:41:44,929

The only one that provided

virtually no Fun parts was Billy.

:

00:41:45,449 --> 00:41:49,119

Yeah, and and in some cases

Fat the fat man himself.

:

00:41:49,379 --> 00:41:52,209

I mean, he's got a couple of

funny lines Like I said, the

:

00:41:52,209 --> 00:41:53,399

steroids line was pretty funny.

:

00:41:53,939 --> 00:41:58,589

But again, there's so much there that

they could have done Yeah, it's almost

:

00:41:58,589 --> 00:42:00,809

like there was three different stories

and they didn't know which one they

:

00:42:00,809 --> 00:42:05,599

wanted to tell So they tried to rush

all three of them Into one mishmash

:

00:42:05,619 --> 00:42:10,729

pot of shit and, and none of them,

virtually none of them have a payoff.

:

00:42:10,779 --> 00:42:11,169

Right.

:

00:42:11,259 --> 00:42:15,259

Like there's virtually no resolution

other than, the only resolution I can

:

00:42:15,259 --> 00:42:19,229

see comes halfway through the film and

that's the fat man gets the government

:

00:42:19,229 --> 00:42:22,689

contract so now he's government

funded for the rest of his life.

:

00:42:22,809 --> 00:42:23,199

Yeah.

:

00:42:23,859 --> 00:42:25,899

Like up until then they

were trying to earn money.

:

00:42:26,724 --> 00:42:29,454

You know, government

funded to make weapons.

:

00:42:29,724 --> 00:42:29,904

Yeah.

:

00:42:29,904 --> 00:42:33,534

To make weapons throughout the

year, 11 months outta the year.

:

00:42:33,534 --> 00:42:36,174

And then of course the 12th month

they'll make Christmas gifts.

:

00:42:36,809 --> 00:42:37,389

Oh man.

:

00:42:37,494 --> 00:42:39,054

So, alright, I have a

little bit of trivia.

:

00:42:39,924 --> 00:42:41,034

I have just a couple things of trivia.

:

00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:41,634

I don't have a lot.

:

00:42:41,664 --> 00:42:41,964

I got

:

00:42:41,969 --> 00:42:42,144

Chris: one.

:

00:42:42,294 --> 00:42:43,104

I got one piece of

:

00:42:43,104 --> 00:42:43,584

Jerome: trivia.

:

00:42:43,944 --> 00:42:44,274

Okay.

:

00:42:44,274 --> 00:42:48,474

So the character of Billy

played by Chance Hertzfeld.

:

00:42:48,474 --> 00:42:48,564

Mm-Hmm.

:

00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:49,159

. Hertzfeld.

:

00:42:50,364 --> 00:42:52,674

Do you know why he was cast ? No idea.

:

00:42:53,489 --> 00:42:56,539

The filmmakers cast him because

he looks like Ben Shapiro.

:

00:42:56,749 --> 00:42:58,099

Ah, he does!

:

00:42:58,559 --> 00:42:59,719

Chris: He looks like a baby Ben

:

00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:00,329

Jerome: Shapiro.

:

00:43:00,509 --> 00:43:01,899

That's why they cast him!

:

00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:03,389

Why?

:

00:43:04,479 --> 00:43:05,639

Chris: What's that matter?

:

00:43:06,399 --> 00:43:07,909

They wanted a Jewish kid?

:

00:43:07,939 --> 00:43:08,419

I don't get

:

00:43:08,419 --> 00:43:08,599

Jerome: it.

:

00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:10,439

I don't know what they were going at.

:

00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:14,379

Like, unless they're Like, staunch

liberals, and this was like some sort of

:

00:43:14,379 --> 00:43:16,289

an attack on Ben Shapiro, I don't know.

:

00:43:16,569 --> 00:43:19,369

Or, they're staunch right

wingers, and they love Ben

:

00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:19,775

Chris: Shapiro.

:

00:43:19,775 --> 00:43:21,999

I think Mel Leen's pretty right.

:

00:43:22,019 --> 00:43:22,479

Maybe that's the case.

:

00:43:23,459 --> 00:43:24,679

Jerome: So I don't know, right.

:

00:43:24,879 --> 00:43:25,569

But it's just funny.

:

00:43:25,979 --> 00:43:29,479

Mel Gibson, here's my second and

last piece of trivia for this movie.

:

00:43:30,329 --> 00:43:34,349

Mel Gibson is the eighth Academy

Award winner to play Santa.

:

00:43:34,569 --> 00:43:36,999

Can you name any of the previous seven?

:

00:43:39,784 --> 00:43:40,704

Billy Bob Thornton.

:

00:43:41,164 --> 00:43:46,034

Billy Bob Thornton played Santa in

Well, that's correct, although he

:

00:43:46,034 --> 00:43:47,494

doesn't ever play the real Santa.

:

00:43:47,494 --> 00:43:49,334

He just plays Santa in Bad Santa.

:

00:43:49,334 --> 00:43:50,534

I saw him in the Santa suit.

:

00:43:50,964 --> 00:43:52,304

In Bad Santa 2, right.

:

00:43:52,414 --> 00:43:54,304

So he plays Santa twice.

:

00:43:54,504 --> 00:43:54,754

Yeah.

:

00:43:54,834 --> 00:43:57,414

Well, I said a fake Santa,

but he still plays Santa.

:

00:43:57,774 --> 00:43:59,074

Billy Bob Thornton, correct answer.

:

00:43:59,084 --> 00:44:00,654

Yes, he is one of How about Ed

:

00:44:00,654 --> 00:44:01,114

Chris: Eisner?

:

00:44:01,114 --> 00:44:02,564

Did he ever win an Academy Award?

:

00:44:03,154 --> 00:44:03,664

Jerome: No.

:

00:44:03,834 --> 00:44:04,619

Ah, dang it.

:

00:44:06,399 --> 00:44:09,509

You know one of them very,

very, it's probably one of

:

00:44:09,509 --> 00:44:10,789

the biggest names in acting.

:

00:44:10,899 --> 00:44:12,349

Just, just tell me, I don't know.

:

00:44:12,429 --> 00:44:13,069

Tom Hanks.

:

00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:13,689

Oh.

:

00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,129

Tom, Tom Hanks played

Santa in the Polar Express.

:

00:44:16,379 --> 00:44:17,489

Oh, right.

:

00:44:17,819 --> 00:44:18,259

Okay.

:

00:44:18,839 --> 00:44:23,289

Richard Attenborough, famously

the director of Gandhi, and was in

:

00:44:23,289 --> 00:44:28,449

Jurassic Park as uh, uh, what was

the old man's name in Jurassic Park?

:

00:44:28,999 --> 00:44:30,389

Oh my god, I'm drawing a blank.

:

00:44:30,879 --> 00:44:32,079

I don't know his name, I know

who you're talking about.

:

00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:33,129

Oh my god.

:

00:44:34,864 --> 00:44:35,974

Oh, that's gonna piss me off.

:

00:44:36,004 --> 00:44:37,314

Anyway Hammond.

:

00:44:37,374 --> 00:44:38,564

My god, that was gonna kill me.

:

00:44:38,564 --> 00:44:40,254

He plays John Hammond in Jurassic Park.

:

00:44:41,224 --> 00:44:43,894

Anyway, he played Santa

in Miracle on 34th Street.

:

00:44:44,064 --> 00:44:44,484

Right.

:

00:44:44,544 --> 00:44:44,714

Oh

:

00:44:44,714 --> 00:44:46,394

Chris: yeah, that, that, no kidding.

:

00:44:46,594 --> 00:44:46,804

Yeah.

:

00:44:46,804 --> 00:44:47,144

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:44:47,554 --> 00:44:49,464

So, a few other names you might not know.

:

00:44:49,474 --> 00:44:50,674

I never put that together.

:

00:44:50,744 --> 00:44:50,994

Huh.

:

00:44:51,034 --> 00:44:57,744

The:

was played by Edwin, Edmund Gwen, who

:

00:44:57,814 --> 00:45:00,244

is did an Academy Award winner, sorry.

:

00:45:00,264 --> 00:45:00,524

Huh.

:

00:45:01,699 --> 00:45:04,779

And then in the:

Miracle on 34th Street.

:

00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:09,709

It's funny, they make this, they remake

this movie as much as A Star is Born.

:

00:45:10,429 --> 00:45:12,109

Or what was the other one we did?

:

00:45:12,179 --> 00:45:13,987

All Quiet on the Western Front.

:

00:45:13,987 --> 00:45:17,039

So, Miracle on 34th

Street, remade in:

:

00:45:17,059 --> 00:45:19,409

Thomas Mitchell, Oscar

winner, played Santa.

:

00:45:20,019 --> 00:45:23,849

Art Carney, who's an Oscar

winner, played Santa three times.

:

00:45:24,509 --> 00:45:25,779

In three different movies.

:

00:45:27,299 --> 00:45:29,019

Of course, we already mentioned

Richard Attenborough and Billy

:

00:45:29,019 --> 00:45:29,999

Bob Thornton and Tom Hanks.

:

00:45:30,434 --> 00:45:33,484

And the last one to do it, the

seventh one before Mel Gibson, is

:

00:45:33,494 --> 00:45:35,434

Jim Broadbent, who's an Oscar winner.

:

00:45:35,434 --> 00:45:38,934

He played Santa twice in two

different movies, Arthur Christmas

:

00:45:38,934 --> 00:45:41,084

in:

:

00:45:41,414 --> 00:45:44,254

So, couple interesting things there.

:

00:45:44,304 --> 00:45:45,014

Yeah so the

:

00:45:45,014 --> 00:45:48,449

Chris: only trivia I have my

wife pointed out that Mrs.

:

00:45:48,449 --> 00:45:52,634

Kringle was crocheting, not knitting.

:

00:45:52,954 --> 00:45:55,104

They actually said she was knitting.

:

00:45:56,104 --> 00:46:00,824

In this movie, and Jesse was quick

to point out, Ah, that's a mistake.

:

00:46:01,304 --> 00:46:03,524

She's not knitting, that's crocheting.

:

00:46:04,614 --> 00:46:06,634

And anyone that crochets

would know the difference.

:

00:46:07,894 --> 00:46:09,954

Jerome: Right, okay, I'm gonna

challenge that one a little bit.

:

00:46:09,964 --> 00:46:10,694

I don't know.

:

00:46:10,944 --> 00:46:13,324

Because your average person

who doesn't know that would,

:

00:46:13,444 --> 00:46:14,684

could still call it knitting.

:

00:46:15,144 --> 00:46:16,214

Well, I mean, no.

:

00:46:16,244 --> 00:46:19,144

Like if I saw somebody crocheting, I might

be like, Hey, that person's knitting.

:

00:46:19,254 --> 00:46:20,064

But you'd be wrong.

:

00:46:20,724 --> 00:46:21,264

. Right.

:

00:46:21,444 --> 00:46:23,664

But I, it just means I

don't know the difference.

:

00:46:23,724 --> 00:46:24,084

Right.

:

00:46:24,924 --> 00:46:28,104

Chris: Well, I know that it's same

as like if someone calls the gun

:

00:46:28,139 --> 00:46:31,489

Thero a gun, the wrong name, you

know, and that would, that would be

:

00:46:31,824 --> 00:46:32,364

Jerome: be a flaw.

:

00:46:32,829 --> 00:46:37,494

It, it would only be a flaw if the

character wouldn't know the difference.

:

00:46:38,514 --> 00:46:38,904

Right.

:

00:46:38,904 --> 00:46:38,905

Chris: Okay.

:

00:46:39,504 --> 00:46:41,484

Well, the character I think was Mrs.

:

00:46:41,484 --> 00:46:42,174

Claus.

:

00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:43,904

Or, or Mrs.

:

00:46:43,904 --> 00:46:44,204

Cringle.

:

00:46:44,204 --> 00:46:45,114

I mean Mrs.

:

00:46:45,114 --> 00:46:47,604

Cringle I think either said

it or it was said to her.

:

00:46:48,254 --> 00:46:49,444

And she would know the difference.

:

00:46:49,454 --> 00:46:50,644

Jerome: You would think she would know.

:

00:46:51,214 --> 00:46:52,194

Chris: So, anyway.

:

00:46:52,964 --> 00:46:54,104

Jerome: Maybe she's not

that bright for Mrs.

:

00:46:54,324 --> 00:46:54,474

Pringle,

:

00:46:54,794 --> 00:46:54,944

Chris: I don't know.

:

00:46:56,064 --> 00:46:56,714

So, anyway.

:

00:46:57,294 --> 00:46:58,154

So you want to move on?

:

00:46:58,154 --> 00:46:59,004

I kind of want to.

:

00:46:59,004 --> 00:47:00,884

I'm dying to get to die hard.

:

00:47:01,094 --> 00:47:02,884

Jerome: Okay, so you want to

move on to the next movie now.

:

00:47:03,969 --> 00:47:04,359

Yes, sir.

:

00:47:04,359 --> 00:47:07,929

I, I have finished my, my whiskey.

:

00:47:08,499 --> 00:47:08,649

Yeah.

:

00:47:08,649 --> 00:47:08,829

I'm gonna

:

00:47:09,339 --> 00:47:10,569

Chris: add a little bit my eggnog

:

00:47:10,569 --> 00:47:10,929

Jerome: here.

:

00:47:11,259 --> 00:47:12,309

I see that you're adding more.

:

00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:14,049

I am now moving to my lightsabers

:

00:47:14,054 --> 00:47:14,409

Chris: here.

:

00:47:14,529 --> 00:47:15,309

That's gonna be it, though.

:

00:47:15,309 --> 00:47:16,149

I can't do too much.

:

00:47:16,149 --> 00:47:16,509

Sweet

:

00:47:16,514 --> 00:47:16,779

Jerome: man.

:

00:47:17,139 --> 00:47:17,679

Are you ready?

:

00:47:23,389 --> 00:47:26,569

Now I know that some are listening or

thinking, wait, didn't you have a cold?

:

00:47:26,899 --> 00:47:28,039

I get the whiskey.

:

00:47:28,754 --> 00:47:31,504

Because that warms your esophagus

and it serves kind of like NyQuil.

:

00:47:31,774 --> 00:47:33,744

Why would he then drink a cold beer?

:

00:47:34,444 --> 00:47:36,834

Cold beer, folks, that's my mother's milk.

:

00:47:37,924 --> 00:47:42,264

Die Hard, the:

:

00:47:42,564 --> 00:47:46,274

Now, I have A couple fun things

in store for our listeners today.

:

00:47:46,484 --> 00:47:49,444

Chris: Just yesterday, someone

tried to argue with me that Die

:

00:47:49,444 --> 00:47:50,934

Hard wasn't a Christmas movie.

:

00:47:51,294 --> 00:47:53,854

And I'm like, dude, there's

Christmas music, there's Christmas

:

00:47:53,854 --> 00:47:55,374

decoration, there's a Christmas party.

:

00:47:55,384 --> 00:47:55,574

Wait,

:

00:47:55,574 --> 00:47:57,269

Jerome: wait, wait, wait, no,

we'll get to that, we'll get

:

00:47:57,269 --> 00:47:58,064

to that, we'll get to that.

:

00:47:58,064 --> 00:48:00,514

I was like, come on, why

is this still a debate?

:

00:48:01,104 --> 00:48:04,684

At the end of this, I have nine points.

:

00:48:05,134 --> 00:48:06,954

Why Die Hard is a Christmas movie.

:

00:48:07,414 --> 00:48:10,054

And only three points against.

:

00:48:10,574 --> 00:48:13,034

And I can debunk the three against.

:

00:48:13,714 --> 00:48:17,084

So, it's really twelve for twelve.

:

00:48:17,354 --> 00:48:18,164

Yeah, let's go.

:

00:48:18,164 --> 00:48:20,014

I have, but right now I have

a nine and three record.

:

00:48:20,044 --> 00:48:21,814

Okay, for the points.

:

00:48:22,054 --> 00:48:23,014

Alright, here we go, Die Hard.

:

00:48:23,014 --> 00:48:25,984

So written by Jeb Stewart

and Steven, Steven I.

:

00:48:25,984 --> 00:48:26,644

D'Souza.

:

00:48:26,964 --> 00:48:29,774

It's based on the book Nothing

Lasts Forever by Roderick Thorpe.

:

00:48:29,824 --> 00:48:30,784

Directed by John McTiernan.

:

00:48:30,785 --> 00:48:32,314

Logline.

:

00:48:32,814 --> 00:48:37,664

New York cop tries to save his

estranged wife and several others

:

00:48:37,664 --> 00:48:40,894

taken hostage by terrorists during

a Christmas party in Los Angeles.

:

00:48:41,984 --> 00:48:43,594

You can't get a better logline than that.

:

00:48:43,734 --> 00:48:44,204

Right.

:

00:48:44,244 --> 00:48:44,834

That's simple.

:

00:48:45,044 --> 00:48:45,474

Clean.

:

00:48:45,474 --> 00:48:45,904

To the point.

:

00:48:46,254 --> 00:48:47,844

Clean and it's your act too.

:

00:48:47,944 --> 00:48:49,604

It is setting up the premise, right?

:

00:48:49,614 --> 00:48:49,814

And the

:

00:48:49,814 --> 00:48:52,374

Chris: word Christmas is

mentioned in the logline.

:

00:48:52,624 --> 00:48:56,654

Jerome: The word Christmas is

in the damn logline, folks.

:

00:48:57,469 --> 00:48:59,929

Alright, the beats.

:

00:48:59,929 --> 00:49:00,279

Here we go.

:

00:49:00,309 --> 00:49:01,059

Opening image.

:

00:49:01,529 --> 00:49:02,309

This is important.

:

00:49:03,059 --> 00:49:04,329

The opening and closing image.

:

00:49:04,439 --> 00:49:05,039

Very important.

:

00:49:05,429 --> 00:49:06,239

Opening image.

:

00:49:06,289 --> 00:49:06,979

Plane landing.

:

00:49:06,979 --> 00:49:07,809

Plane landing, yep.

:

00:49:08,479 --> 00:49:10,039

McClane arriving.

:

00:49:10,904 --> 00:49:12,404

As an estranged husband.

:

00:49:12,994 --> 00:49:13,894

He's arriving.

:

00:49:13,944 --> 00:49:14,404

Right.

:

00:49:16,034 --> 00:49:18,324

Theme stated, Argyle Sister McLean.

:

00:49:18,704 --> 00:49:22,014

So your lady sees you, you run into

each other's arms, the music comes

:

00:49:22,014 --> 00:49:23,614

up and you live happily ever after.

:

00:49:23,884 --> 00:49:25,764

This is going to be a

running theme throughout.

:

00:49:26,354 --> 00:49:28,684

Will he live happily

ever after or won't he?

:

00:49:28,724 --> 00:49:30,444

With his wife, mind you,

I don't mean physically.

:

00:49:30,624 --> 00:49:32,274

And this is a point

I'm going to make here.

:

00:49:32,834 --> 00:49:35,854

That, interestingly enough, this

movie is really not about terrorists.

:

00:49:36,764 --> 00:49:38,544

And the front of an action film it is.

:

00:49:38,989 --> 00:49:41,299

But really, this is John McClane

trying to fix his marriage.

:

00:49:41,519 --> 00:49:41,769

Right.

:

00:49:41,769 --> 00:49:42,139

Right?

:

00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:45,979

That's what this movie's truly about,

which is why it'll kind of key into

:

00:49:45,979 --> 00:49:47,299

the Christmas theme a little bit later.

:

00:49:47,669 --> 00:49:49,229

But anyway It's the idea of change.

:

00:49:49,229 --> 00:49:52,629

At the beginning, McClane is filled

with a lot of stubborn anger, and on

:

00:49:52,629 --> 00:49:57,189

this journey, he'll learn how to put his

personal feelings and ego aside, and think

:

00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:59,139

about what is most important in his life.

:

00:50:00,324 --> 00:50:02,084

Like all people do in Christmas movies.

:

00:50:02,104 --> 00:50:03,404

But anyway, we'll get to that.

:

00:50:04,134 --> 00:50:06,394

Hey, inciting incident slash the catalyst.

:

00:50:06,394 --> 00:50:08,524

The terrorists take control

of the building and make their

:

00:50:08,524 --> 00:50:09,814

presence known to everyone.

:

00:50:09,824 --> 00:50:10,614

It just occurred to

:

00:50:10,614 --> 00:50:13,904

Chris: me, minus the terrorists,

this is a Hallmark movie.

:

00:50:15,784 --> 00:50:16,234

It is.

:

00:50:16,264 --> 00:50:17,534

Jerome: It's a Hallmark Christmas movie.

:

00:50:17,534 --> 00:50:20,154

It's a Hallmark Christmas

movie with better dialogue.

:

00:50:22,444 --> 00:50:23,724

All right, debate begins.

:

00:50:24,699 --> 00:50:24,989

Right?

:

00:50:24,989 --> 00:50:26,439

Because we actually have a structure.

:

00:50:26,449 --> 00:50:30,269

This is, this is gonna be a fun beat sheet

as compared to Fat Man, because these

:

00:50:30,269 --> 00:50:31,809

points all hit and they all make sense.

:

00:50:32,574 --> 00:50:33,834

Alright, debate begins.

:

00:50:34,034 --> 00:50:38,474

McClane at this moment could put

his hands in the air and say, Well,

:

00:50:38,974 --> 00:50:41,434

you know, let me just, I'll turn

myself in, they'll put me with my

:

00:50:41,434 --> 00:50:42,884

wife, at least I know she'll be safe.

:

00:50:43,194 --> 00:50:45,694

I'll stay with her, with

all the other terrorists.

:

00:50:45,874 --> 00:50:47,424

We'll let the cops do their job.

:

00:50:47,739 --> 00:50:50,429

You know, and as long as I got

Holly right next to me, I just

:

00:50:50,429 --> 00:50:51,589

want to make sure she's okay.

:

00:50:51,869 --> 00:50:53,179

I'm not going to try to get away.

:

00:50:53,459 --> 00:50:54,759

You know, like, what's the point of that?

:

00:50:54,759 --> 00:50:56,009

Like, I want to make sure my wife is okay.

:

00:50:56,009 --> 00:50:57,009

He could have done all of that.

:

00:50:57,359 --> 00:50:58,649

He's not a threat at this moment.

:

00:50:58,909 --> 00:51:00,189

They have no idea he's a cop.

:

00:51:00,649 --> 00:51:02,279

They have no idea he's

any sort of a threat.

:

00:51:03,299 --> 00:51:05,889

He could just say, let's

let the LAPD handle this.

:

00:51:06,229 --> 00:51:07,289

I just want to take care of my wife.

:

00:51:07,519 --> 00:51:08,869

Best way to do that is to protect her.

:

00:51:08,979 --> 00:51:09,289

No.

:

00:51:09,984 --> 00:51:10,704

, that's his debate.

:

00:51:10,914 --> 00:51:11,964

He changes his mind.

:

00:51:11,964 --> 00:51:18,474

He's, he decides he's gonna escape and,

and battle these terrorists, right?

:

00:51:18,804 --> 00:51:20,544

Trying to figure out what is happening.

:

00:51:20,604 --> 00:51:22,524

He goes on this sort of covert mission.

:

00:51:22,524 --> 00:51:26,394

At that point, I gotta find out everything

I can and somehow alert the cops.

:

00:51:26,424 --> 00:51:29,754

Chris: Well, and it wasn't until,

I'll note, it wasn't until he

:

00:51:29,754 --> 00:51:34,904

witnessed the CEO get executed that

he realized he's gonna have to fight.

:

00:51:35,104 --> 00:51:37,914

Because he sat there and watched

this guy get executed, and then he

:

00:51:37,914 --> 00:51:39,584

was kicking himself for not doing

:

00:51:39,584 --> 00:51:40,114

Jerome: something.

:

00:51:40,444 --> 00:51:44,744

Right, and, and, that's, that's a very

good point, because at that point,

:

00:51:44,754 --> 00:51:46,194

he doesn't know how deadly they are.

:

00:51:46,204 --> 00:51:46,564

Right.

:

00:51:46,644 --> 00:51:49,134

They, they could have just shot

off their guns to scare everyone.

:

00:51:49,144 --> 00:51:49,554

Right.

:

00:51:49,644 --> 00:51:50,984

And they were really just there for money.

:

00:51:51,264 --> 00:51:51,444

Yeah.

:

00:51:51,444 --> 00:51:54,594

But when they see him

kill, execute Takagi, Yep.

:

00:51:54,614 --> 00:51:58,484

Then you're right, he's like, oh shit, if

they're willing to kill him, that means

:

00:51:58,484 --> 00:51:59,644

they're willing to kill other hostages.

:

00:51:59,644 --> 00:52:00,394

Yeah, anybody.

:

00:52:00,484 --> 00:52:00,844

Yeah.

:

00:52:00,994 --> 00:52:02,314

Now my wife is in danger.

:

00:52:02,330 --> 00:52:03,799

Right?

:

00:52:03,849 --> 00:52:05,689

Side point, and this is very important.

:

00:52:05,689 --> 00:52:08,729

I want to take a break for a second

just to, just to nail this down,

:

00:52:08,989 --> 00:52:12,019

because I've heard this on the internet,

I've heard this from other people,

:

00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:13,379

and it pisses me off every time.

:

00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:19,229

That debate that I just gave you,

I have heard people argue, if

:

00:52:19,259 --> 00:52:22,659

McClane did nothing, the movie

would have ended just fine.

:

00:52:23,489 --> 00:52:25,679

If he didn't involve himself, No.

:

00:52:26,129 --> 00:52:28,979

He would have met up with Holly with

all the other hostages at the end when

:

00:52:28,979 --> 00:52:32,249

the bad guys left and escaped with all

the money And everything would have been

:

00:52:32,419 --> 00:52:32,619

Chris: fine.

:

00:52:32,619 --> 00:52:33,709

The plan was to blow

:

00:52:33,709 --> 00:52:34,619

Jerome: the building up.

:

00:52:34,749 --> 00:52:35,429

Thank you.

:

00:52:35,449 --> 00:52:40,379

I cannot argue this point enough Hans

Gruber even says, there's a line of

:

00:52:40,379 --> 00:52:46,999

dialogue that says we, he tells the

FBI I want these revolutionary brothers

:

00:52:46,999 --> 00:52:51,714

and sisters released I want them taken

to the roof of this building, we will

:

00:52:51,714 --> 00:52:57,964

exchange our hostages for their hostages,

in the exchange, and then, whatever.

:

00:52:58,504 --> 00:53:01,494

And then he gets off the radio, and

he says to his henchmen, as soon as

:

00:53:01,494 --> 00:53:05,074

those things touch down, we blow the

roof, they spend the next six months

:

00:53:05,084 --> 00:53:07,704

sifting through the rubble, when they

figure out what went wrong, we'll

:

00:53:07,704 --> 00:53:09,404

be sitting on a beach, earning 20%.

:

00:53:09,624 --> 00:53:09,884

Yep.

:

00:53:10,614 --> 00:53:12,194

His intention is to kill everybody.

:

00:53:12,204 --> 00:53:12,874

Yeah, 100%.

:

00:53:12,934 --> 00:53:16,514

Because he even tells McLean later,

if you steal 600, you can disappear.

:

00:53:16,514 --> 00:53:20,994

When you steal 600 million, they will find

you unless they think you're already dead.

:

00:53:21,394 --> 00:53:25,834

He wanted them to not be able

to, to, to, to, identify which

:

00:53:26,024 --> 00:53:28,924

bodies were the hostages and

which bodies were the terrorists.

:

00:53:29,424 --> 00:53:32,144

He wanted the cops to believe that

everybody died when the roof blew.

:

00:53:32,464 --> 00:53:34,484

So he was gonna kill everybody.

:

00:53:34,584 --> 00:53:34,894

Yeah.

:

00:53:35,014 --> 00:53:40,104

So I cannot argue this enough, if

McClane doesn't make that debate, doesn't

:

00:53:40,104 --> 00:53:42,234

make that decision, they're all dead.

:

00:53:42,384 --> 00:53:42,694

Yeah.

:

00:53:43,124 --> 00:53:45,514

He had to do what he was

gonna do to save everybody.

:

00:53:46,114 --> 00:53:46,514

All right.

:

00:53:47,824 --> 00:53:49,154

Sorry, I had to take a little break there.

:

00:53:49,614 --> 00:53:50,294

Break into two.

:

00:53:50,344 --> 00:53:55,004

Takagi's killed and McClane sees it

and he kind of hears Han's plan, right?

:

00:53:55,004 --> 00:53:58,004

When he's listening, he can hear that

they're trying to get into the safe.

:

00:53:58,184 --> 00:53:58,804

That's the whole point.

:

00:53:58,804 --> 00:53:59,774

He's trying to get into the vault.

:

00:54:00,174 --> 00:54:03,124

And when Takagi refuses to give

up the vault, they kill him.

:

00:54:04,104 --> 00:54:07,054

After escaping, he sets off the fire

alarm in hopes of alerting the cops.

:

00:54:07,055 --> 00:54:11,074

This is now officially

the mirror flip of Act 1.

:

00:54:11,304 --> 00:54:12,614

We are now in Act 2.

:

00:54:12,804 --> 00:54:13,194

Right?

:

00:54:13,514 --> 00:54:14,124

Officially.

:

00:54:14,344 --> 00:54:16,294

He's on the run in the building alone.

:

00:54:17,369 --> 00:54:19,919

And the concept, the

premise is being delivered.

:

00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,929

Terrorists have hostages, McClane

has to try to alert the cops, and he

:

00:54:23,939 --> 00:54:25,419

battled the hostages one at a time.

:

00:54:25,429 --> 00:54:25,709

Right.

:

00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:27,899

That's your fun and games,

which is the next beat.

:

00:54:27,899 --> 00:54:28,469

Fun and games.

:

00:54:29,409 --> 00:54:31,179

This is what we call the promise

of the premise, is when the

:

00:54:31,179 --> 00:54:33,299

scenes from the trailer happen.

:

00:54:33,704 --> 00:54:35,444

That's when you know

you're in Act 2, right?

:

00:54:35,494 --> 00:54:35,904

Okay.

:

00:54:36,404 --> 00:54:40,024

McClane battles some bad guys,

he kills Carl's brother, there's

:

00:54:40,024 --> 00:54:41,564

the rooftop shootout scene.

:

00:54:41,564 --> 00:54:41,684

Oh,

:

00:54:41,694 --> 00:54:45,334

Chris: when he kills Carl's brother,

I'm so bummed I didn't see that t that

:

00:54:45,334 --> 00:54:46,954

sweatshirt that I could've bought.

:

00:54:47,484 --> 00:54:50,754

Before, before today, because I

would have bought it for this, I

:

00:54:50,754 --> 00:54:52,654

would have wore it for this podcast.

:

00:54:52,654 --> 00:54:53,114

It's the So

:

00:54:53,114 --> 00:54:54,764

Jerome: tell, tell everyone what

sweatshirt you're talking about.

:

00:54:54,764 --> 00:54:55,254

Well, it's

:

00:54:55,254 --> 00:54:57,604

Chris: the sweatshirt that,

what's the guy's name?

:

00:54:57,604 --> 00:54:58,994

It's Carl's brother, right?

:

00:54:59,264 --> 00:55:00,374

Yeah, it's Carl's brother.

:

00:55:02,244 --> 00:55:06,254

McClane kills him, sends him down

the elevator, and so the elevator

:

00:55:06,254 --> 00:55:09,994

opens up on the floor where all the

terrorists are, and they see him.

:

00:55:09,994 --> 00:55:14,654

He's laying, he's sitting upright

in the elevator, dead, with blood

:

00:55:14,864 --> 00:55:19,264

handwritten blood in, on the sweater, or

on the sweatshirt that he was wearing.

:

00:55:19,264 --> 00:55:22,184

And it says, now I have

a machine gun, ho ho ho.

:

00:55:22,214 --> 00:55:22,544

Right?

:

00:55:22,574 --> 00:55:23,224

Is that what it says?

:

00:55:23,444 --> 00:55:26,244

And the sweatshirt that you can buy,

it looks like it's a sweatshirt.

:

00:55:26,254 --> 00:55:29,514

Just like that, written in

blood, a replica of that.

:

00:55:29,524 --> 00:55:32,184

Now I have a machine gun, ho ho ho.

:

00:55:32,184 --> 00:55:32,414

Yeah.

:

00:55:32,594 --> 00:55:34,914

So that's a, what a Christmas sweatshirt

:

00:55:34,924 --> 00:55:35,464

Jerome: that would be.

:

00:55:35,884 --> 00:55:37,654

Now, and this is another

interesting point.

:

00:55:37,904 --> 00:55:38,954

Cause I've heard this argument.

:

00:55:39,274 --> 00:55:40,474

Why do any of that?

:

00:55:41,184 --> 00:55:43,864

Why not just have the

bad guy just, is missing.

:

00:55:43,874 --> 00:55:45,144

He's no longer at his post.

:

00:55:45,154 --> 00:55:48,274

They sent him up there to try to

find somebody and he went missing.

:

00:55:48,594 --> 00:55:52,794

Why send the body back down and

alert the terrorists that you

:

00:55:52,794 --> 00:55:55,274

exist, and that you're now armed?

:

00:55:55,714 --> 00:55:56,974

There's a very simple reason for that.

:

00:55:57,404 --> 00:55:59,214

It's to get them off their plan.

:

00:55:59,424 --> 00:55:59,874

Right?

:

00:56:00,574 --> 00:56:04,164

So, and, he can hear, he's

on top of the elevator.

:

00:56:04,424 --> 00:56:07,724

So he knows this is a chance

to find out who the boss is.

:

00:56:08,044 --> 00:56:08,794

Find out his name.

:

00:56:08,794 --> 00:56:10,954

He's writing down everything

with a sharpie on his arm.

:

00:56:10,954 --> 00:56:11,574

On his arm, right.

:

00:56:11,584 --> 00:56:12,904

So he can get information.

:

00:56:12,905 --> 00:56:15,464

So there's a lot of

reasons why you do that.

:

00:56:15,594 --> 00:56:15,864

Right.

:

00:56:15,904 --> 00:56:19,574

But ultimately, other than getting

information, he's ruffling their feathers.

:

00:56:19,584 --> 00:56:22,164

He's letting them know, like,

whatever great plan you had.

:

00:56:23,094 --> 00:56:25,504

He even says later, I'm a

fly in the ointment, Hans.

:

00:56:26,874 --> 00:56:27,224

Chris: Right?

:

00:56:28,264 --> 00:56:29,134

Jerome: Pain in the ass.

:

00:56:29,484 --> 00:56:29,844

Okay.

:

00:56:30,484 --> 00:56:33,634

So a lot of this happens in the fun and

games part, including the air duck scene.

:

00:56:33,924 --> 00:56:36,934

Come out to the coast, we'll

get together, have a few laughs.

:

00:56:37,534 --> 00:56:37,954

Okay.

:

00:56:38,304 --> 00:56:39,024

B story.

:

00:56:39,144 --> 00:56:40,174

What is the B story?

:

00:56:40,204 --> 00:56:43,264

Again, we talk about the B story is

the character that gets introduced,

:

00:56:43,264 --> 00:56:46,844

usually about a half hour in, that's

supposed to bring some relief to

:

00:56:46,844 --> 00:56:48,254

the main character's struggles.

:

00:56:48,344 --> 00:56:48,574

Yeah.

:

00:56:48,624 --> 00:56:48,844

Right?

:

00:56:48,844 --> 00:56:49,854

That's why I said if Mrs.

:

00:56:49,854 --> 00:56:52,664

Claus was the B story, she's

introduced way too early.

:

00:56:54,304 --> 00:56:57,844

She's supposed to relieve some of the

pain and stress from the main character.

:

00:56:58,164 --> 00:57:00,024

The B story is often romantic.

:

00:57:00,554 --> 00:57:04,944

interest in, in, in romance movies

but in a lot of times in buddy

:

00:57:04,944 --> 00:57:07,134

films, or it could be a partner.

:

00:57:07,264 --> 00:57:09,634

Jaws, we talk about how

Hooper is introduced right

:

00:57:09,634 --> 00:57:11,244

at the 30 minute mark, right?

:

00:57:11,244 --> 00:57:15,164

Richard Dreyfuss character has come to

sort of relieve some of the pressure

:

00:57:15,174 --> 00:57:16,484

from Roy Scheider's character.

:

00:57:16,514 --> 00:57:17,254

So enter

:

00:57:17,264 --> 00:57:18,111

Chris: Sergeant Powell.

:

00:57:18,111 --> 00:57:22,483

Jerome: Sergeant Al Powell is introduced

to try and take some of the pressure

:

00:57:22,483 --> 00:57:24,838

off the main character 45 minutes in.

:

00:57:24,838 --> 00:57:26,519

So it's a little late.

:

00:57:26,829 --> 00:57:31,099

But remember, half hour in for a

hundred to a hundred and ten minute

:

00:57:31,099 --> 00:57:33,409

film, Die Hard runs over two hours.

:

00:57:33,879 --> 00:57:36,627

So introducing the B story at 45

minutes, not that big of a deal.

:

00:57:36,627 --> 00:57:37,022

Just about

:

00:57:37,022 --> 00:57:37,219

Chris: right.

:

00:57:37,219 --> 00:57:37,417

Right.

:

00:57:37,417 --> 00:57:40,049

Cause this is, yeah, this is a two

twelve, two hour and twelve minute film.

:

00:57:40,049 --> 00:57:40,249

Yeah,

:

00:57:40,439 --> 00:57:43,079

Jerome: so it's, it's just about right on.

:

00:57:43,299 --> 00:57:43,519

Yep.

:

00:57:43,579 --> 00:57:46,869

Plus you remember that the fun

in games What they did right that

:

00:57:46,869 --> 00:57:51,149

Fatman does wrong, they take extra

time to develop that premise part.

:

00:57:51,189 --> 00:57:51,689

Right, right.

:

00:57:51,689 --> 00:57:54,329

The part from the jump to Act

2 to the midpoint, there's a

:

00:57:54,329 --> 00:57:55,309

lot of stuff going on there.

:

00:57:55,469 --> 00:57:57,299

Like I said, the rooftop shootout scene.

:

00:57:57,419 --> 00:57:57,689

Yeah.

:

00:57:57,739 --> 00:58:00,749

The air duct scene, there's a lot

of cat and mouse shit going on.

:

00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:05,269

It's delivering the premise for you

before they introduce the B story.

:

00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:05,479

Yep.

:

00:58:05,569 --> 00:58:06,639

They do that right.

:

00:58:06,949 --> 00:58:10,259

Chris: And yeah, and there's that

scene where he's talking with Sergeant

:

00:58:10,259 --> 00:58:15,654

Paul after getting his feet all cut

up with glass and he's all He's out

:

00:58:15,654 --> 00:58:19,054

of breath, well, I mean, I'm just

saying, he gets to that point in the

:

00:58:19,054 --> 00:58:24,064

story where they have this real heart

to heart, so it was a great character

:

00:58:24,064 --> 00:58:27,034

development between him and Sgt.

:

00:58:27,034 --> 00:58:27,374

Paul.

:

00:58:27,584 --> 00:58:27,804

You're

:

00:58:27,824 --> 00:58:28,774

Jerome: getting ahead of the game.

:

00:58:28,934 --> 00:58:29,354

I'm sorry.

:

00:58:30,134 --> 00:58:31,044

Chris: I love this movie.

:

00:58:32,624 --> 00:58:33,964

Jerome: Alright, midpoint scene.

:

00:58:34,969 --> 00:58:37,959

First utterance of Yippee Ki

Yay, motherfucker, happens

:

00:58:37,959 --> 00:58:38,939

at the midpoint scene.

:

00:58:39,429 --> 00:58:40,619

Why is that a false victory?

:

00:58:40,639 --> 00:58:44,519

McClane has made contact with Hans,

and now he's trying to bully him.

:

00:58:44,649 --> 00:58:47,609

He knows a little bit,

he knows a lot about him.

:

00:58:47,829 --> 00:58:50,509

He knows a lot about their,

what they've got set up.

:

00:58:50,709 --> 00:58:53,159

He's got their detonators, right?

:

00:58:53,499 --> 00:58:54,929

He's got a machine gun.

:

00:58:55,199 --> 00:58:56,419

He's got a radio.

:

00:58:56,419 --> 00:58:59,789

He's kind of feeling like,

I got you by the balls, man!

:

00:59:00,059 --> 00:59:01,199

Yippee Ki Yay, motherfucker!

:

00:59:01,459 --> 00:59:02,699

That happens at the midpoint scene.

:

00:59:02,699 --> 00:59:03,889

And why is that a false victory?

:

00:59:04,394 --> 00:59:05,824

Cause we know everything's

gonna go to shit.

:

00:59:06,464 --> 00:59:07,114

Everything bad's

:

00:59:07,114 --> 00:59:08,335

Chris: about to happen after that.

:

00:59:08,335 --> 00:59:10,044

That's before he got his feet cut

:

00:59:10,044 --> 00:59:10,288

Jerome: up.

:

00:59:10,288 --> 00:59:10,533

Right.

:

00:59:10,533 --> 00:59:14,195

So his tangible goal of having the upper

hand against Hans is kinda realized there.

:

00:59:14,195 --> 00:59:15,660

That's why it's a false victory.

:

00:59:15,710 --> 00:59:16,830

Bad guys closing in.

:

00:59:16,830 --> 00:59:18,530

Now we're in the second

half of the film where again

:

00:59:18,530 --> 00:59:19,700

everything starts to go to bad.

:

00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,530

There's several shit hits the

fan moments that are laid out

:

00:59:23,530 --> 00:59:24,700

in the second part of the film.

:

00:59:25,140 --> 00:59:26,520

The storming of the police.

:

00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:27,630

They get annihilated.

:

00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:28,870

John tries to help.

:

00:59:29,370 --> 00:59:32,980

The Deputy Chief of Police is

a pain in the ass who hates

:

00:59:32,980 --> 00:59:35,490

McLean doesn't want John's help.

:

00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:38,090

Ellis tries to help, he gets killed.

:

00:59:38,610 --> 00:59:40,630

Hans finds out John's identity.

:

00:59:40,650 --> 00:59:43,330

All this is happening in

The Bad Guys Closing In.

:

00:59:43,610 --> 00:59:43,900

Yeah.

:

00:59:43,950 --> 00:59:49,960

So the fake plan gets laid out to the

cops, where the hostages, er uh, Hans

:

00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,340

is only doing this because he wants

his revolutionary brothers and sisters.

:

00:59:53,660 --> 00:59:55,830

They're captive around the world released.

:

00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,650

He's acting like that's

why they're doing this.

:

00:59:58,890 --> 01:00:03,340

So all that gets laid out and it it all

sort of culminates in the all is lost

:

01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,350

again It's the moment where the main

character feels like all hope is gone.

:

01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:09,550

Yeah now

:

01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:11,440

Chris: and that's the

scene where I was talking

:

01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,880

Jerome: Because

:

01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,360

Chris: really the all is lost is kind

of at that point when he's talking

:

01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,570

Jerome: to So, well, let me get to it.

:

01:00:19,730 --> 01:00:23,220

So, after John meets Hans face to face,

they have a shootout with the bad guys.

:

01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:23,580

Mm hmm.

:

01:00:23,790 --> 01:00:26,570

He's basically lost everything

except his own life.

:

01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:28,440

He loses his machine gun.

:

01:00:28,910 --> 01:00:30,300

Doesn't get it again for

the rest of the movie.

:

01:00:31,170 --> 01:00:32,440

He loses his detonators.

:

01:00:32,620 --> 01:00:35,990

Hans has the detonators back, so now

he can blow up whatever bombs he wants.

:

01:00:36,050 --> 01:00:36,280

Yep.

:

01:00:36,610 --> 01:00:38,310

He loses his anonymity.

:

01:00:38,660 --> 01:00:39,830

They know what he looks like now.

:

01:00:40,060 --> 01:00:40,440

Yep.

:

01:00:40,620 --> 01:00:41,010

Right?

:

01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:42,860

He's lost his upper hand.

:

01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,270

He loses all of that in that scene.

:

01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,980

To say nothing of the fact, he

takes a huge shard of glass to

:

01:00:48,980 --> 01:00:50,550

the bottom of his bare foot.

:

01:00:51,180 --> 01:00:51,520

Right?

:

01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:52,120

Not to mention

:

01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:53,630

Chris: the small shards of glass.

:

01:00:53,790 --> 01:00:54,080

Yeah,

:

01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,460

Jerome: yeah, that are all over his body.

:

01:00:55,965 --> 01:01:00,915

But the blood on the bottom of his foot is

leaking like a sieve, like there's just,

:

01:01:00,915 --> 01:01:03,685

Chris: blood's just That's a rough,

anyone that has a hard time with blood

:

01:01:03,695 --> 01:01:08,005

and, I mean, if you've ever cut your

foot, oh man, that scene is rough.

:

01:01:08,285 --> 01:01:08,775

Jerome: Yes.

:

01:01:08,975 --> 01:01:09,185

It's like, ugh.

:

01:01:09,185 --> 01:01:15,305

And, and to make matters worse In

an effort to try to feel a little

:

01:01:15,315 --> 01:01:19,965

better about himself, I guess, he

makes a crack at Powell about, y'know,

:

01:01:20,075 --> 01:01:21,465

Why are you such a desk jockey?

:

01:01:21,465 --> 01:01:23,355

Why don't you get out here

and be a real cop like us?

:

01:01:23,745 --> 01:01:27,935

And he gets met with the Yeah, he

gets met with the I shot a kid story.

:

01:01:28,275 --> 01:01:31,925

So, McClane is at about as bottom

as you can get at this point.

:

01:01:32,285 --> 01:01:33,508

Not only has he

:

01:01:33,508 --> 01:01:34,170

Chris: lost everything

:

01:01:34,210 --> 01:01:34,540

Jerome: No.

:

01:01:34,570 --> 01:01:36,000

Yeah, just like, right, exactly.

:

01:01:36,170 --> 01:01:40,540

If I couldn't get any fucking lower on

how I feel right now, thanks Powell, you

:

01:01:40,540 --> 01:01:42,410

just made me feel like even more shit.

:

01:01:42,810 --> 01:01:45,450

So that whole scene is the

all is lost for McLean.

:

01:01:45,890 --> 01:01:50,430

Dark Night of the Soul, John laments

about his marital, marital failures, and

:

01:01:50,430 --> 01:01:55,170

he says, and I quote, it took me a while

to figure out what a jerk I've been.

:

01:01:55,890 --> 01:01:59,420

That when things started to pan out for

her, I should have been more supportive.

:

01:01:59,630 --> 01:02:01,300

I should have been behind her more.

:

01:02:02,005 --> 01:02:05,455

Tell her, she's the best thing that's

ever happened to a bum like me.

:

01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:08,005

She's heard me say I love

you a thousand times.

:

01:02:08,135 --> 01:02:09,785

She's never heard me say I'm sorry.

:

01:02:10,765 --> 01:02:11,675

Huge, right?

:

01:02:11,975 --> 01:02:13,265

Talk about Dark Knight of the Soul.

:

01:02:13,745 --> 01:02:16,795

And of course, he gets

the realization, right?

:

01:02:16,795 --> 01:02:20,205

Because again, this is another beautiful

element to the Dark Knight of the Soul.

:

01:02:20,485 --> 01:02:24,245

Is when the main character believes all is

lost, and they got nowhere to go to win.

:

01:02:24,580 --> 01:02:26,680

They're pretty much

accepting death, or whatever.

:

01:02:26,930 --> 01:02:28,460

They've lost, they've failed.

:

01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,470

Something happens, or somebody

says something, or even they say

:

01:02:31,470 --> 01:02:33,670

something, that gives them an idea.

:

01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:34,360

The man upstairs.

:

01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,100

And that idea is what

pushes them into Act 3.

:

01:02:37,100 --> 01:02:40,230

And sure enough, he says, Just

make it out of there, and all,

:

01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,240

you know, everything will be fine.

:

01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,560

And he says, that's up

to the man upstairs.

:

01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:46,130

And then almost a literal

fucking light goes off.

:

01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:46,550

Right.

:

01:02:46,790 --> 01:02:48,880

He's like, what was Hans doing upstairs?

:

01:02:49,500 --> 01:02:49,850

Right?

:

01:02:49,850 --> 01:02:51,870

So now he's got an idea.

:

01:02:52,635 --> 01:02:53,395

Wait a second.

:

01:02:53,485 --> 01:02:55,285

There's another element here I'm missing.

:

01:02:55,825 --> 01:02:57,475

There's something I gotta go investigate.

:

01:02:58,385 --> 01:02:58,745

Right?

:

01:02:58,975 --> 01:03:00,365

So now we break into Act 3.

:

01:03:00,735 --> 01:03:03,125

McClain tells Powell to

lay off for a while, okay?

:

01:03:03,765 --> 01:03:05,915

Realize, that's the last

time he talks to Powell.

:

01:03:06,075 --> 01:03:06,525

Hmm.

:

01:03:07,205 --> 01:03:07,585

Well.

:

01:03:08,295 --> 01:03:12,915

He screams at him, right before his

fight with Garl, but that's basically

:

01:03:12,915 --> 01:03:16,545

the last time he talks to Powell

in a conversation until the end.

:

01:03:16,925 --> 01:03:21,005

So he says, lay off for a while, and

he's gonna go plunge himself into Act 3

:

01:03:21,115 --> 01:03:23,715

by trying to investigate what the hell

Hans was doing and what's going on.

:

01:03:24,215 --> 01:03:27,285

Act 3, 5 point finale,

here we go, you ready?

:

01:03:28,095 --> 01:03:31,235

Gathering the team, McClane

is investigating and finds

:

01:03:31,235 --> 01:03:32,455

out the roof is wired.

:

01:03:32,665 --> 01:03:34,915

Okay, why is that gathering the team?

:

01:03:35,035 --> 01:03:38,215

Because the second he sees the roof

is wired is his last connection with

:

01:03:38,215 --> 01:03:41,745

Paolo when he says, Paolo, Paolo,

double cross, the whole roof is wired.

:

01:03:41,955 --> 01:03:44,685

So he's trying to let the cops

know, that whole plan you guys had?

:

01:03:45,775 --> 01:03:46,275

Don't do it.

:

01:03:46,495 --> 01:03:46,995

Don't do it.

:

01:03:48,095 --> 01:03:53,325

Execution of the plan, face to face with

henchman Carl John knows he's gotta take

:

01:03:53,325 --> 01:03:54,985

this guy out and save his wife, right?

:

01:03:55,175 --> 01:03:56,595

They've sent Carl to kill him.

:

01:03:56,595 --> 01:03:58,585

Now, Carl, of course, is the henchman.

:

01:03:58,595 --> 01:04:01,175

He's the, the right hand man of Hans.

:

01:04:01,175 --> 01:04:02,505

And he wants revenge.

:

01:04:02,545 --> 01:04:04,735

Played wonderfully by Alexander

Goodenough, by the way.

:

01:04:04,765 --> 01:04:05,115

Right.

:

01:04:05,175 --> 01:04:07,595

Who's a, who's a ballet

dancer in real life.

:

01:04:07,925 --> 01:04:11,925

And, obviously, that translates

into martial arts fighting.

:

01:04:12,185 --> 01:04:15,575

So he, yeah, he wants revenge for the

fact that McLean killed his brother.

:

01:04:16,745 --> 01:04:17,815

Hightower Surprise!

:

01:04:18,270 --> 01:04:20,680

After he kills Carl,

he's feeling pretty good.

:

01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:21,660

I got rid of the henchman.

:

01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,250

I know what the plan is.

:

01:04:23,260 --> 01:04:28,670

All I gotta do is get all the hostages

off the roof, save Holly, and we're good.

:

01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,550

High tower surprise, he gets

up there to find out what?

:

01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:33,130

Holly's not up there.

:

01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,300

She was taken hostage by

Hans separately to the vault.

:

01:04:37,570 --> 01:04:39,920

That's a high tower surprise for

him, because now he's like, Fuck,

:

01:04:40,060 --> 01:04:43,010

I came up here to get my wife, and

now instead of my wife, I've got 30

:

01:04:43,020 --> 01:04:44,360

hostages of people I don't even know.

:

01:04:44,430 --> 01:04:44,700

Right.

:

01:04:45,095 --> 01:04:45,425

Right?

:

01:04:45,575 --> 01:04:47,035

But I gotta get him off there somehow.

:

01:04:47,195 --> 01:04:48,135

I know what you're thinking.

:

01:04:48,825 --> 01:04:49,125

Wait a minute.

:

01:04:49,125 --> 01:04:50,495

You said he lost his machine gun.

:

01:04:51,375 --> 01:04:53,915

Doesn't he use his machine gun

to fire over the heads of the

:

01:04:53,915 --> 01:04:55,654

hostages to get them off the roof?

:

01:04:56,765 --> 01:04:57,705

Not his machine gun.

:

01:04:57,735 --> 01:04:58,135

Right.

:

01:04:58,205 --> 01:05:00,745

When that, when that one

guy opens up the roof door.

:

01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:02,240

And he shoots him.

:

01:05:02,410 --> 01:05:03,570

He takes his machine gun.

:

01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,940

So then he gets up there, fires off.

:

01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:07,740

You know, to try to get

everybody to go down.

:

01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,310

The FBI thinks he's a terrorist.

:

01:05:09,529 --> 01:05:10,480

They try to kill him.

:

01:05:10,900 --> 01:05:11,740

She was taken hostage.

:

01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:12,850

Holly was taken hostage.

:

01:05:12,850 --> 01:05:14,430

That was the uh, Hightower surprise.

:

01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,230

Now he's gotta get the

hostages off the roof.

:

01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:18,279

And he's gotta get off the roof himself.

:

01:05:18,380 --> 01:05:20,680

The FBI's trying to kill him,

so they're shooting at him.

:

01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,785

And of course we have One of

my favorite scenes of all time,

:

01:05:24,825 --> 01:05:29,175

action sequences, where he ties

the fire hose around his waist.

:

01:05:29,185 --> 01:05:29,635

Yeah.

:

01:05:29,705 --> 01:05:32,654

And jumps off the side of the

building as it's blowing up.

:

01:05:32,654 --> 01:05:34,231

Yeah, what a great scene, man.

:

01:05:34,231 --> 01:05:35,358

As the roof is blowing.

:

01:05:35,358 --> 01:05:35,584

Yes.

:

01:05:35,584 --> 01:05:39,645

He fires his way into, back into the

30th floor, where he was just at.

:

01:05:39,705 --> 01:05:41,404

Where he has to crash through more glass.

:

01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:42,810

Grass through more glass.

:

01:05:43,220 --> 01:05:45,330

And now he's got the dig

down deep moment, right?

:

01:05:45,610 --> 01:05:47,620

He's got two bullets left in his gun.

:

01:05:47,620 --> 01:05:48,510

That's it, two.

:

01:05:49,250 --> 01:05:51,210

anD he doesn't really know

how many ter he knows there's

:

01:05:51,210 --> 01:05:52,640

two or three terrorists left.

:

01:05:53,010 --> 01:05:53,580

But what is he gonna do?

:

01:05:53,610 --> 01:05:56,000

He only has two bullets and his

machine gun, the machine gun that

:

01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:57,560

he took off the other guy, is empty.

:

01:05:58,220 --> 01:05:59,330

So that's useless to him.

:

01:05:59,900 --> 01:06:01,200

Execution of the new plan.

:

01:06:01,380 --> 01:06:04,800

One of the terrorists comes running

out with the Bonds, Kristoff.

:

01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:07,250

He belts Kristoff in the face

with the butt of the machine

:

01:06:07,250 --> 01:06:08,170

gun, knocks him out cold.

:

01:06:08,485 --> 01:06:08,785

Okay.

:

01:06:09,085 --> 01:06:12,355

By the way, Christophe and Theo

are the only two to survive.

:

01:06:13,225 --> 01:06:14,545

, every other terrorist dies, right?

:

01:06:14,635 --> 01:06:19,075

Anyway, so he knocks out Christophe

uh, and then he has this big

:

01:06:19,105 --> 01:06:22,765

climax with Hans and Eddie and the

whole gold watch thing, and we're

:

01:06:22,765 --> 01:06:23,635

gonna talk about that in a second.

:

01:06:24,795 --> 01:06:28,395

So, of course, the big, the

big execution of the new plan.

:

01:06:28,485 --> 01:06:29,205

Two bullets.

:

01:06:29,445 --> 01:06:30,435

He finds the seating.

:

01:06:30,435 --> 01:06:33,255

Greetings, season greetings,

tape tapes, the gun to his back.

:

01:06:33,285 --> 01:06:33,495

Yep.

:

01:06:33,985 --> 01:06:39,225

It's a great moment where Hans gets to

deliver the Yippee Ki Yay, motherfucker.

:

01:06:39,545 --> 01:06:41,425

And then of course, he starts laughing.

:

01:06:42,265 --> 01:06:44,745

Chris: Yeah, cause he said, Yippee Ki Yay,

:

01:06:45,145 --> 01:06:45,695

Jerome: motherfucker.

:

01:06:45,765 --> 01:06:46,825

Motherfucker.

:

01:06:47,565 --> 01:06:47,935

The way he said it.

:

01:06:47,965 --> 01:06:53,055

But, but, what's funny is that

McClane really sets that up, because

:

01:06:53,055 --> 01:06:56,425

right when he knows he's gonna die,

or supposedly they're gonna kill

:

01:06:56,425 --> 01:06:58,705

him, he's dropped his machine gun,

Holly thinks they're both dead.

:

01:06:59,485 --> 01:07:01,495

Holly's being held gunpoint

at this point, by the way.

:

01:07:01,495 --> 01:07:02,725

She believes they're both dead.

:

01:07:03,685 --> 01:07:06,195

Everything couldn't be

bleaker for them right now.

:

01:07:06,775 --> 01:07:11,330

But before he gets killed, John

says to him You would have made a

:

01:07:11,330 --> 01:07:12,720

pretty good cowboy yourself, Hans.

:

01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:13,660

Right?

:

01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,590

To try to keep this going a little bit.

:

01:07:15,590 --> 01:07:17,510

Let me see if I can keep the

banter going a little bit.

:

01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:21,490

Because the longer I make them feel

relaxed, the better shot I have.

:

01:07:21,490 --> 01:07:25,150

If they're pointing their guns

at me, I might not survive this.

:

01:07:26,050 --> 01:07:29,035

But if they know that

they've got me, Right?

:

01:07:29,065 --> 01:07:30,475

They know they got me by the balls.

:

01:07:30,625 --> 01:07:32,635

They might relax a little

bit, then I can get them.

:

01:07:32,935 --> 01:07:37,025

So he introduces that line of

dialogue, and when Hans jumps right

:

01:07:37,025 --> 01:07:38,455

in it, he falls right for that trap.

:

01:07:38,805 --> 01:07:42,325

Cause that's when Hans says, Wait a

minute, what did you say to me before?

:

01:07:43,045 --> 01:07:44,255

Yippee ki yay.

:

01:07:44,375 --> 01:07:45,425

Motherfucker.

:

01:07:46,695 --> 01:07:48,135

So then they all start laughing, right?

:

01:07:48,135 --> 01:07:51,035

They all start laughing and that

relieves the tension of the moment.

:

01:07:51,245 --> 01:07:53,525

There's only one person in

that scene that's not laughing.

:

01:07:54,110 --> 01:07:54,360

Holly.

:

01:07:54,380 --> 01:07:55,090

Holly, yeah.

:

01:07:55,860 --> 01:07:58,700

She's like, what the

fuck is going on here?

:

01:07:59,730 --> 01:08:03,290

And that's when he yells Holly and

she gives, you know, a little chop in

:

01:08:03,290 --> 01:08:05,020

the ribs there to get away from Hans.

:

01:08:06,380 --> 01:08:09,050

You know, climactic

moment John kills both.

:

01:08:09,380 --> 01:08:11,420

Nice shot between the

eyes on Eddie, by the way.

:

01:08:12,540 --> 01:08:16,279

And then Hans goes over, and we have what

can only be known as the Nakatomi moment.

:

01:08:16,290 --> 01:08:19,100

It's not Christmas Eve until Hans

Gruber falls from Nakatomi Plaza.

:

01:08:19,729 --> 01:08:22,330

I have a couple of parts on that.

:

01:08:22,370 --> 01:08:23,970

I want to make sure I listed it down.

:

01:08:24,010 --> 01:08:24,319

I didn't.

:

01:08:24,330 --> 01:08:25,520

I missed it, so I'm going

to tell you right now.

:

01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:27,670

One of the trivia things.

:

01:08:28,250 --> 01:08:32,609

When they shot that scene,

okay, they were on a soundstage.

:

01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:34,930

And, they knew they were

going to blue screen it.

:

01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:35,550

Yeah.

:

01:08:35,729 --> 01:08:37,890

Obviously, you can't really

drop him out of a building.

:

01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,460

But, the drop was still, on

the soundstage, a good 30, 40,

:

01:08:42,460 --> 01:08:43,330

50 feet, something like that.

:

01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:43,670

Yeah.

:

01:08:43,670 --> 01:08:46,770

But, it was on to one of those big

air mattresses, you know, or whatever.

:

01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:51,050

So, they wanted the realism of his face.

:

01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:51,510

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:57,529

Because even the real actor Alan Rickman,

said In an interview, he's like, I

:

01:08:57,529 --> 01:09:01,680

still wasn't very happy about, they

still wanted to drop me like 40 feet.

:

01:09:01,770 --> 01:09:02,090

Right.

:

01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,790

He's like, so even though, so

he's like, so I was tensing up

:

01:09:04,790 --> 01:09:06,090

and preparing myself for it.

:

01:09:06,180 --> 01:09:06,660

Right, right.

:

01:09:06,660 --> 01:09:10,050

Well, they got up there, and they said,

okay, we're gonna drop you on three.

:

01:09:10,430 --> 01:09:10,979

Okay?

:

01:09:11,569 --> 01:09:12,229

One.

:

01:09:13,255 --> 01:09:13,895

And they drop him.

:

01:09:13,895 --> 01:09:16,194

They don't even keep counting.

:

01:09:16,194 --> 01:09:18,045

So his reaction is real.

:

01:09:18,365 --> 01:09:19,555

He didn't know it was coming.

:

01:09:19,755 --> 01:09:22,385

So when they drop him, he's got

that look on his face like, Oh fuck!

:

01:09:22,615 --> 01:09:23,665

Like they're dropping me.

:

01:09:24,395 --> 01:09:25,645

So he didn't know it was coming.

:

01:09:25,645 --> 01:09:27,595

That's why his face is

authentic like that.

:

01:09:27,895 --> 01:09:29,404

That was really his face.

:

01:09:29,425 --> 01:09:31,265

He really didn't know

they were dropping him.

:

01:09:31,615 --> 01:09:34,065

So it's a pretty funny,

pretty great moment.

:

01:09:34,375 --> 01:09:35,055

Little trivia there.

:

01:09:35,505 --> 01:09:38,795

Alright, so let me, I, I jumped over

it real quick, this kind of goes

:

01:09:38,795 --> 01:09:41,205

into the theme of Christmas, we're

gonna talk about it a little bit.

:

01:09:41,274 --> 01:09:44,815

Chris: Before you do, there's a couple

things just a couple lines that like,

:

01:09:45,934 --> 01:09:49,684

one I just loved, I thought it was

funny, and then another one that just,

:

01:09:49,745 --> 01:09:53,675

I always, I always yell at the TV or

the whatever, I'm watching the movie.

:

01:09:54,245 --> 01:09:57,365

At the very beginning, when he,

when John McClane gets there, he's

:

01:09:57,365 --> 01:09:59,965

got to go in there and he's got to

punch her name into the computer.

:

01:10:00,355 --> 01:10:00,695

Yeah.

:

01:10:00,735 --> 01:10:03,145

And the guard's like, oh, the

party, yeah, they're the only

:

01:10:03,145 --> 01:10:04,215

ones left in the building.

:

01:10:04,585 --> 01:10:06,945

Well, why'd you make him go

through the computer thing?

:

01:10:06,995 --> 01:10:08,855

So, so dad I know why, I know why.

:

01:10:09,505 --> 01:10:10,565

Jerome: Dad says that too.

:

01:10:10,675 --> 01:10:12,915

Chris: Well, and I know why,

they needed to set up that she

:

01:10:12,915 --> 01:10:14,855

changed her last name, I get it.

:

01:10:14,955 --> 01:10:15,155

Jerome: You know?

:

01:10:15,155 --> 01:10:16,735

Well, but, and dad always said that too.

:

01:10:16,755 --> 01:10:19,565

Why, if that's the answer,

why even bother, oh.

:

01:10:19,865 --> 01:10:20,625

Here's why.

:

01:10:20,985 --> 01:10:23,755

And not just because of what you said,

because of a plot point you need to

:

01:10:23,755 --> 01:10:25,195

know that she's using her maiden name.

:

01:10:25,225 --> 01:10:25,605

Yeah.

:

01:10:25,665 --> 01:10:27,095

There's actually another reason.

:

01:10:27,565 --> 01:10:30,565

There's a building filled

with different offices.

:

01:10:30,585 --> 01:10:32,145

It's the Nakatomi Plaza.

:

01:10:32,275 --> 01:10:32,655

Yeah.

:

01:10:32,765 --> 01:10:35,895

But I'm sure there's other companies

on some of the other floors.

:

01:10:36,035 --> 01:10:36,495

I know.

:

01:10:36,755 --> 01:10:40,975

He could have gone in, and what if he

typed in and said she works for FedEx.

:

01:10:40,975 --> 01:10:42,425

He could have been like,

they went home already.

:

01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:43,580

They're already gone.

:

01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:44,640

You know what I mean?

:

01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:48,809

So when he says 30th floor, he

says, Oh, she's at the party.

:

01:10:49,100 --> 01:10:49,410

Well, I

:

01:10:49,410 --> 01:10:51,510

Chris: know, but he actually

says, Oh, they're the only

:

01:10:51,570 --> 01:10:53,320

ones left in the building.

:

01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:53,830

So it's like

:

01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:57,390

Jerome: Right, but he wouldn't

have known who Holly works for.

:

01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:58,100

The guy in the front.

:

01:10:58,590 --> 01:10:59,240

That's what I'm saying.

:

01:10:59,340 --> 01:10:59,650

I know.

:

01:10:59,660 --> 01:11:03,600

So, he could have typed her name in,

and it could have been like, oh, she

:

01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,920

works for Postal Express or something.

:

01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:06,340

Okay.

:

01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:07,570

And, you know what I mean?

:

01:11:07,570 --> 01:11:08,410

Like, whatever.

:

01:11:08,460 --> 01:11:10,000

It still seems ironic.

:

01:11:10,460 --> 01:11:12,680

Yeah, because, well, the part

that's missing is McClane

:

01:11:12,690 --> 01:11:13,970

knows she works for Nakatomi.

:

01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:14,450

Yeah.

:

01:11:14,540 --> 01:11:16,110

He knows she's at that Christmas party.

:

01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:20,610

So instead of typing it in, he could

have said I'm looking for Holly Gennaro.

:

01:11:20,910 --> 01:11:22,620

And he says, just type it in there.

:

01:11:22,700 --> 01:11:24,880

He could have said, well,

she works for Nakatomi.

:

01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:25,580

Isn't, you know.

:

01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:27,180

Yeah, does she work for Nakatomi?

:

01:11:27,190 --> 01:11:27,460

Yeah.

:

01:11:27,460 --> 01:11:27,650

Yeah.

:

01:11:27,650 --> 01:11:27,960

Okay.

:

01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,380

She works for Nakatomi.

:

01:11:29,380 --> 01:11:29,960

What floor are they on?

:

01:11:29,980 --> 01:11:32,570

Chris: But then we missed the

opportunity to learn she changed her last

:

01:11:32,570 --> 01:11:32,790

Jerome: name.

:

01:11:32,790 --> 01:11:33,300

Of course.

:

01:11:33,300 --> 01:11:33,680

Of course.

:

01:11:34,090 --> 01:11:36,400

But like, you know, people like

you and dad have to pick that

:

01:11:36,450 --> 01:11:37,400

friggin shit apart all the time.

:

01:11:37,580 --> 01:11:41,590

Chris: So the other one uh, the other

one was the after the helicopter.

:

01:11:41,765 --> 01:11:45,535

Yeah, the rift blows up, the

helicopter crashes, and uh, What's

:

01:11:45,535 --> 01:11:47,215

his, is he the police chief?

:

01:11:47,215 --> 01:11:47,805

Commissioner?

:

01:11:48,225 --> 01:11:48,885

What's his role?

:

01:11:48,895 --> 01:11:49,925

Deputy Chief of Police Dwayne Robinson.

:

01:11:50,595 --> 01:11:54,835

Deputy Chief of Police, who has

a wardrobe like Barry Manilow.

:

01:11:56,275 --> 01:11:57,045

Jerome: Not in this movie.

:

01:11:57,865 --> 01:11:58,325

He does in

:

01:11:58,325 --> 01:11:58,875

Chris: Breakfast Club.

:

01:11:58,875 --> 01:11:59,415

Breakfast Club, yeah.

:

01:12:00,875 --> 01:12:03,105

We're gonna need some

more FBI guys, I guess.

:

01:12:04,145 --> 01:12:08,245

Jerome: That's great, what's funny about

that is that he's been battling Powell

:

01:12:08,305 --> 01:12:12,455

and McClain this whole movie, and that's

the first moment of like, comic relief,

:

01:12:12,815 --> 01:12:17,015

where he's, in fact, right before that,

when the shit's going down, he goes,

:

01:12:17,305 --> 01:12:18,605

I don't like the looks of this, Sarge.

:

01:12:18,745 --> 01:12:21,825

Look, he's actually talking to

Powell now like they're equals, like

:

01:12:21,825 --> 01:12:24,355

the whole movie's been like, you

know, get the fuck out of my face.

:

01:12:26,090 --> 01:12:28,040

And in that moment, they're

almost like partners.

:

01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:29,430

He's like, I don't like

the look of this, Sarge.

:

01:12:29,790 --> 01:12:31,795

And then when it happens,

he's like Christ!

:

01:12:32,265 --> 01:12:33,565

We need some new FBI guys, I guess.

:

01:12:33,755 --> 01:12:34,175

Right?

:

01:12:35,975 --> 01:12:36,865

So that is a funny moment.

:

01:12:37,055 --> 01:12:39,035

But wait, we've kind of

skipped the end here, so.

:

01:12:39,115 --> 01:12:39,455

Okay.

:

01:12:39,885 --> 01:12:40,955

Resolution, of course.

:

01:12:40,985 --> 01:12:41,895

McClane wins.

:

01:12:42,225 --> 01:12:44,055

He happily finds Holly.

:

01:12:44,425 --> 01:12:46,505

You know, of course we get to

the part where Paul puts his

:

01:12:46,505 --> 01:12:48,175

demons to bed by killing Carl.

:

01:12:48,675 --> 01:12:51,715

Holly takes out Thornburg

for just being Thornburg.

:

01:12:52,095 --> 01:12:52,455

Right?

:

01:12:52,875 --> 01:12:56,635

And then, the closing image, mirror flip

of the first one, instead of McClane

:

01:12:56,684 --> 01:13:01,725

arriving as an estranged husband, he's

now leaving as a happily married man.

:

01:13:01,835 --> 01:13:02,085

Yep.

:

01:13:02,175 --> 01:13:05,735

A complete flip of the opening

image because of the journey

:

01:13:05,735 --> 01:13:06,695

that happened in between.

:

01:13:06,875 --> 01:13:07,855

Okay, other trivia.

:

01:13:08,684 --> 01:13:11,655

By the way, before we get to the trivia,

I already said one piece of trivia.

:

01:13:12,075 --> 01:13:14,825

Do you see how clearly

the beats are laid out?

:

01:13:14,875 --> 01:13:15,175

Yeah.

:

01:13:15,215 --> 01:13:18,135

And how the structure

is perfect and clean?

:

01:13:18,305 --> 01:13:18,555

Yep.

:

01:13:18,575 --> 01:13:19,075

Right?

:

01:13:19,695 --> 01:13:21,695

Fatman does none of

that shit, pretty much.

:

01:13:21,895 --> 01:13:24,565

You know, and again, we had this

argument when we did Jaws vs.

:

01:13:24,575 --> 01:13:25,205

Jaws 4.

:

01:13:26,055 --> 01:13:28,025

Jaws has such clear beats.

:

01:13:28,815 --> 01:13:32,465

And, and plot points, and nailing

the beats down, and then you get to

:

01:13:32,465 --> 01:13:35,415

Jaws 4 and none of that shit happens,

and it's just a mess because of it.

:

01:13:35,815 --> 01:13:39,425

And, and for anyone that wants to be

a writer, that's why you have to nail

:

01:13:39,425 --> 01:13:41,105

these beats to keep your story clean.

:

01:13:41,934 --> 01:13:42,555

Alright, trivia.

:

01:13:42,995 --> 01:13:48,545

The:

first, well I don't want to say his

:

01:13:48,555 --> 01:13:53,035

first book, but it's the book about

this, the author wrote that book

:

01:13:53,035 --> 01:13:54,545

that wrote Nothing Lasts Forever.

:

01:13:55,375 --> 01:13:59,910

It was centered around a cop named

e Leland, who's played in the:

:

01:13:59,910 --> 01:14:01,890

film, the Detective by Frank Sinatra.

:

01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,160

Sinatra wanted a sequel, okay?

:

01:14:05,730 --> 01:14:10,610

But by the time Roger Thorpe wrote,

nothing Lasts Forever, which came out in

:

01:14:10,610 --> 01:14:16,130

:

to be playing this cop, Joe Leland, and

:

01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:18,140

he, so he was too old to play the part.

:

01:14:18,230 --> 01:14:23,300

Also, what took so long is

that Roger Thorpe had later

:

01:14:23,300 --> 01:14:24,500

said, I think in an interview.

:

01:14:25,650 --> 01:14:28,620

He had trouble writing a sequel because

he kills everybody in the detective.

:

01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:29,210

Yeah, right.

:

01:14:29,210 --> 01:14:32,260

The detective, almost everybody

dies off except the lead.

:

01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:34,380

So he's like, how am I

going to write a sequel?

:

01:14:34,610 --> 01:14:35,240

You know what I mean?

:

01:14:35,580 --> 01:14:39,440

So he kind of had to hash up

the sequel where it's actually

:

01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:40,620

not his estranged wife.

:

01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:42,559

He's going out to see his daughter.

:

01:14:43,059 --> 01:14:44,800

Who I believe in the book.

:

01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:48,760

She's who falls off the

building, not Hans Gruber.

:

01:14:48,770 --> 01:14:49,400

Oh my god.

:

01:14:49,470 --> 01:14:51,550

So, yeah, it's kind of bleak.

:

01:14:52,820 --> 01:14:54,200

This had a much better ending.

:

01:14:54,710 --> 01:14:57,540

So Sinatra was a little too old to

play him by the time it came out.

:

01:14:57,850 --> 01:15:00,180

So by the time they were

kicking around Hollywood, who's

:

01:15:00,180 --> 01:15:00,950

going to write the script?

:

01:15:01,140 --> 01:15:02,620

It went through several different writers.

:

01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,990

When these guys got a hold of

it, they turned it into what

:

01:15:04,990 --> 01:15:06,790

you know today as Die Hard.

:

01:15:07,190 --> 01:15:10,160

Stevie Wonder's song, Skeletons.

:

01:15:10,545 --> 01:15:15,295

Which is kind of about lies and deceit,

is played twice in Argyle's Limo.

:

01:15:15,705 --> 01:15:21,285

So, it's, you're suggesting it's either an

hour long song, which it isn't, or Argyle

:

01:15:21,295 --> 01:15:23,035

likes it so much, he plays it twice.

:

01:15:23,105 --> 01:15:23,434

Yeah.

:

01:15:23,495 --> 01:15:25,945

It's, it's heard two times

when Argyle's in the limo.

:

01:15:26,325 --> 01:15:30,305

The very first time is when John

McClane calls down to the limo, and

:

01:15:30,305 --> 01:15:31,895

he says, hey Mac, how's it going?

:

01:15:31,895 --> 01:15:33,385

He's like, yeah, the boat's not in yet.

:

01:15:33,395 --> 01:15:33,955

You know what I mean?

:

01:15:34,155 --> 01:15:34,345

Yeah.

:

01:15:34,345 --> 01:15:36,375

It's when the bad guys are

cutting the phone lines.

:

01:15:36,570 --> 01:15:36,790

Yep.

:

01:15:36,970 --> 01:15:40,110

In that scene, you hear Stevie

Wonder's song, Skeletons, playing.

:

01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:40,510

Hmm.

:

01:15:40,610 --> 01:15:41,130

In the background.

:

01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:46,090

That same song is playing when

Powell's getting his car shot up,

:

01:15:46,350 --> 01:15:49,050

and he's going in reverse, and

he's like, Ah, dammit, Jesus H.

:

01:15:49,050 --> 01:15:49,315

Christ!

:

01:15:49,315 --> 01:15:49,581

Right.

:

01:15:49,581 --> 01:15:50,911

I need backup assistance now!

:

01:15:50,911 --> 01:15:51,443

You know?

:

01:15:51,443 --> 01:15:51,709

Wow.

:

01:15:51,709 --> 01:15:54,780

They do a shot of Theo in the limo, Yeah.

:

01:15:54,790 --> 01:15:57,420

And he's on the phone, he doesn't

even know what's going on behind him.

:

01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:58,020

Yeah.

:

01:15:58,059 --> 01:15:58,630

That song

:

01:15:58,630 --> 01:15:59,150

Chris: is still playing.

:

01:15:59,150 --> 01:16:00,970

I didn't even catch that

it was the same song.

:

01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:01,250

It's the

:

01:16:01,250 --> 01:16:06,250

Jerome: same song, but what's funny is The

reason why it's two parts of the same song

:

01:16:06,740 --> 01:16:11,320

is that the beginning, when he's first

talking to McClane, it's the build up of

:

01:16:11,330 --> 01:16:12,830

the song, it's the beginning of the song.

:

01:16:13,535 --> 01:16:16,315

So, that signifies the

story's about to start, right?

:

01:16:16,445 --> 01:16:19,420

It's kind of a low, like,

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun,

:

01:16:19,420 --> 01:16:20,835

dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

:

01:16:20,985 --> 01:16:23,845

But then, when the shit's

hittin the fan, Yeah.

:

01:16:24,184 --> 01:16:28,184

And he's rockin to the song, you can

hear Stevie Wonder's lyric of Turnin

:

01:16:28,295 --> 01:16:30,235

up the heat uh, gettin ready to pop.

:

01:16:30,665 --> 01:16:31,655

That's the line of the lyric.

:

01:16:32,715 --> 01:16:37,005

So, John McTiernan specifically used

that song for two different parts

:

01:16:37,005 --> 01:16:40,985

of the movie to, you know, basically

designate what's going on in the story.

:

01:16:41,545 --> 01:16:43,635

Genius use of a song, by the way.

:

01:16:44,175 --> 01:16:47,445

Okay, so, I have an interesting

little thing here before we talk about

:

01:16:47,445 --> 01:16:48,434

Whether or Not It's a Christmas Movie.

:

01:16:48,975 --> 01:16:50,025

This is for writers.

:

01:16:50,765 --> 01:16:56,205

If you want to know why Die Hard is so

awesome, and you can do this with other of

:

01:16:56,205 --> 01:17:00,855

your favorite films and see if it works,

in a really well written screenplay,

:

01:17:01,605 --> 01:17:04,755

do the beats work for other characters?

:

01:17:05,455 --> 01:17:06,695

Not just your lead.

:

01:17:07,355 --> 01:17:10,684

So we're gonna do, real quick, little

fun little exercise, we're gonna do a

:

01:17:10,684 --> 01:17:13,725

quick beat sheet for Sergeant Al Powell.

:

01:17:13,915 --> 01:17:14,375

Okay.

:

01:17:14,745 --> 01:17:15,155

Are you ready?

:

01:17:15,305 --> 01:17:15,625

Yeah.

:

01:17:16,015 --> 01:17:16,835

Opening image.

:

01:17:17,035 --> 01:17:19,315

He's buying snacks to take

home to his pregnant wife.

:

01:17:20,405 --> 01:17:21,225

Theme stated.

:

01:17:21,485 --> 01:17:23,315

Thought you guys just ate donuts.

:

01:17:23,605 --> 01:17:25,515

That's what the clerk

at the store tells him.

:

01:17:25,635 --> 01:17:26,525

Why is that a theme?

:

01:17:26,525 --> 01:17:27,085

Here's why.

:

01:17:27,965 --> 01:17:32,470

He's signifying the theme is,

Is Powell A regular old cop.

:

01:17:32,980 --> 01:17:33,700

And I'll tell you why.

:

01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:34,740

Let me dig into this here.

:

01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:38,150

This is the scene because Powell's

carrying around that regret that

:

01:17:38,150 --> 01:17:39,210

we don't even know about yet.

:

01:17:39,260 --> 01:17:39,870

Right, right.

:

01:17:40,100 --> 01:17:41,410

But it's got him off the street.

:

01:17:41,770 --> 01:17:44,100

So he doesn't have the respect

of his fellow officers.

:

01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:45,540

Cause he's a desk jockey.

:

01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,160

He refused to go out on

the streets anymore, right?

:

01:17:48,710 --> 01:17:50,300

He, he just mans a desk now.

:

01:17:51,070 --> 01:17:53,050

So is he like every other cop?

:

01:17:53,210 --> 01:17:53,630

Or not?

:

01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:55,730

That's his personal theme.

:

01:17:55,950 --> 01:17:57,990

Can I be a cop like everybody else?

:

01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:00,420

Or am I the guy that just sits

at a desk all day because I'm

:

01:18:00,420 --> 01:18:01,580

afraid to go out on the street?

:

01:18:01,809 --> 01:18:04,940

Because I had this, this

accident, this trauma in my past.

:

01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:06,250

Inciting incident.

:

01:18:07,700 --> 01:18:11,490

Given the task of checking out Nakatomi

Plaza, a body falls on his car.

:

01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:12,360

Boom.

:

01:18:12,370 --> 01:18:13,240

He's now in act two.

:

01:18:13,390 --> 01:18:14,630

Debate begins.

:

01:18:15,430 --> 01:18:16,290

He's got a debate here.

:

01:18:16,420 --> 01:18:19,180

He could easily say, I'm going home guys.

:

01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:20,650

Here's what's going on.

:

01:18:20,700 --> 01:18:21,690

All the cops show up.

:

01:18:21,700 --> 01:18:26,430

The deputy chief of police shows up

and he says, this isn't my thing.

:

01:18:27,205 --> 01:18:28,205

I'm a desk jockey.

:

01:18:28,545 --> 01:18:31,615

I'm gonna take my Twinkies and go home

to my pregnant wife, which is where

:

01:18:31,615 --> 01:18:33,405

I was going when all this happened.

:

01:18:33,715 --> 01:18:34,915

You guys take care of this.

:

01:18:35,045 --> 01:18:36,355

This is real police work.

:

01:18:37,235 --> 01:18:38,415

He doesn't do that though, does he?

:

01:18:38,975 --> 01:18:42,625

He makes the decision to stay, right?

:

01:18:43,475 --> 01:18:44,645

Okay, break into two.

:

01:18:44,815 --> 01:18:46,085

He makes contact with McClain.

:

01:18:46,105 --> 01:18:49,945

We're now in his second act of his story,

where he's now talking back and forth

:

01:18:49,945 --> 01:18:52,015

with McClain after the cops show up.

:

01:18:52,485 --> 01:18:56,665

Deputy Chief of Police Dwayne

Robinson hasn't shown up

:

01:18:56,665 --> 01:18:57,745

yet, but the other cops have.

:

01:18:58,315 --> 01:18:59,045

Fun and games.

:

01:18:59,635 --> 01:19:03,585

Premise, information goes back and forth,

including the cops raid on the building.

:

01:19:04,075 --> 01:19:06,865

Midpoint scene, Powell tells off his boss.

:

01:19:07,315 --> 01:19:09,015

This is important as a midpoint scene.

:

01:19:09,495 --> 01:19:14,575

In his story, being the tough cop instead

of a desk jockey is what he wants.

:

01:19:15,105 --> 01:19:18,895

Though he hasn't actually

earned the respect yet, right?

:

01:19:19,315 --> 01:19:20,715

But that's a false victory for him.

:

01:19:20,715 --> 01:19:21,965

I got to tell off my boss.

:

01:19:22,295 --> 01:19:25,605

That's when the cop said, when

the deputy says, I'm really

:

01:19:25,605 --> 01:19:26,815

going to go after McClain now.

:

01:19:26,815 --> 01:19:29,595

And he says, you think he gives

a damn what you're going to do to

:

01:19:29,595 --> 01:19:30,555

him if he makes it out of there?

:

01:19:30,645 --> 01:19:32,455

Why don't you wake up and

smell what you shoveling?

:

01:19:32,455 --> 01:19:35,005

You know, the cop says, anytime

you want to go home, Sergeant,

:

01:19:35,125 --> 01:19:36,485

you consider yourself dismissed.

:

01:19:36,730 --> 01:19:37,580

No way!

:

01:19:37,850 --> 01:19:40,620

You couldn't, or no, no sir,

you couldn't drag me away.

:

01:19:40,980 --> 01:19:41,650

Midpoint scene.

:

01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:42,290

Right, right.

:

01:19:42,870 --> 01:19:45,080

Bad guy's closing in, the FBI comes.

:

01:19:45,380 --> 01:19:48,410

They're in charge now, which

makes it harder for Powell to

:

01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:49,910

achieve his spiritual goal.

:

01:19:50,090 --> 01:19:53,640

Because if the FBI comes in

and takes over Powell has no

:

01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,020

chance to, to redeem himself.

:

01:19:56,260 --> 01:20:00,240

Chris: I love this so much because

it's so perfect as opposed to

:

01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:01,910

the other movie we talked about.

:

01:20:02,570 --> 01:20:04,720

Where all the other

characters had no arcs.

:

01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,690

Jerome: Where I couldn't figure out

what any arc for any character was.

:

01:20:08,850 --> 01:20:11,190

Alright, all is lost, break into three.

:

01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,040

Now, because it's not his story,

it's McClane's story, we're gonna

:

01:20:14,059 --> 01:20:18,670

combine two things into one here, that

all is lost and a break into three.

:

01:20:18,670 --> 01:20:22,440

Usually there's an all is lost, a dark

night of the soul, where they debate,

:

01:20:22,610 --> 01:20:24,350

and then they decide to break into three.

:

01:20:24,580 --> 01:20:25,530

Those three things happen.

:

01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:27,809

Not Powell's story, it's McLean's.

:

01:20:27,820 --> 01:20:29,790

So we have to kind of

cram those into one here.

:

01:20:30,510 --> 01:20:34,010

And he has one sort of big scene,

all is lost, break into three, the

:

01:20:34,010 --> 01:20:36,420

roof blows, the FBI agents die.

:

01:20:36,660 --> 01:20:40,720

It's a false defeat because you think,

well this is bad, we lost the FBI agents.

:

01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:46,150

Chris: Well that all is lost scene

Powell is sharing his trauma and so

:

01:20:46,150 --> 01:20:48,250

he's sharing his all is lost, kind of.

:

01:20:48,260 --> 01:20:52,000

Jerome: He's, yes, but that's

more McLean's all is lost scene.

:

01:20:52,010 --> 01:20:52,809

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:20:53,170 --> 01:20:56,260

You know, but Powell's

all is lost, I believe.

:

01:20:56,695 --> 01:20:58,735

is when he doesn't, he can't

talk to McLean anymore.

:

01:20:59,555 --> 01:21:01,135

And he's not in charge, yeah.

:

01:21:01,135 --> 01:21:04,145

He's not in charge, he's lost

the ability to talk to McLean.

:

01:21:04,195 --> 01:21:04,525

Yeah.

:

01:21:04,595 --> 01:21:05,985

He doesn't, he's got nothing now.

:

01:21:05,995 --> 01:21:07,395

He could just go home at this point.

:

01:21:07,515 --> 01:21:07,945

Right.

:

01:21:08,115 --> 01:21:12,265

But, the roof blows, the FBI guys die.

:

01:21:12,305 --> 01:21:14,995

This is again a false defeat

because it seems like a defeat.

:

01:21:15,215 --> 01:21:17,275

Holy shit, they just

blew up the FBI agents.

:

01:21:17,575 --> 01:21:21,525

But in reality, he cannot reach his

redemption with those FBI guys around.

:

01:21:21,740 --> 01:21:22,059

Right.

:

01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:23,990

Five point finale.

:

01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:24,410

Are you ready?

:

01:21:24,420 --> 01:21:26,640

Even Powell has a five point finale.

:

01:21:27,290 --> 01:21:27,870

Here we go.

:

01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:29,370

Gathering the team.

:

01:21:31,070 --> 01:21:32,380

You have to work with me on this one.

:

01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:33,860

Gathering the team.

:

01:21:34,020 --> 01:21:36,780

He's going with all the other cops

to see all the hostages coming out.

:

01:21:36,940 --> 01:21:37,290

Right?

:

01:21:37,740 --> 01:21:41,710

He's, he's, he's assisting in saving and

getting the hostages out of the building.

:

01:21:42,010 --> 01:21:43,340

He's really looking for McLean.

:

01:21:43,570 --> 01:21:45,870

But he doesn't know what he looks

like, and he hasn't talked to him in a

:

01:21:45,870 --> 01:21:47,570

while, so he doesn't know if he's dead.

:

01:21:47,820 --> 01:21:48,100

Right.

:

01:21:48,100 --> 01:21:48,490

Right?

:

01:21:48,570 --> 01:21:51,840

He could be thinking, McClane's dead,

but I gotta go find out for myself.

:

01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:53,550

Execution of the plan.

:

01:21:54,230 --> 01:21:58,370

He makes actual face to face contact

with McClane and hugs it out.

:

01:21:58,740 --> 01:22:00,530

That's the execution of his plan.

:

01:22:00,740 --> 01:22:03,440

He feels important,

like he's a regular cop.

:

01:22:03,870 --> 01:22:05,040

High tower surprise!

:

01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:06,440

Carl is alive!

:

01:22:06,700 --> 01:22:09,360

And he rises up with his

gun, he's gonna kill McClane!

:

01:22:09,730 --> 01:22:10,710

Dig down deep!

:

01:22:11,135 --> 01:22:14,705

Everybody loses their

shit, except Powell, right?

:

01:22:14,785 --> 01:22:15,065

Yep.

:

01:22:15,625 --> 01:22:18,845

As McLean covers over Holly,

and everyone else is in fear and

:

01:22:18,845 --> 01:22:20,975

shock, Powell must take control.

:

01:22:21,275 --> 01:22:22,795

Execution of the new plan!

:

01:22:23,655 --> 01:22:23,785

Pow!

:

01:22:24,115 --> 01:22:24,235

Pow!

:

01:22:24,235 --> 01:22:24,355

Pow!

:

01:22:24,805 --> 01:22:24,895

Pow!

:

01:22:26,255 --> 01:22:27,115

And one more good one?

:

01:22:27,115 --> 01:22:29,135

Pow!

:

01:22:29,135 --> 01:22:30,395

Powell takes out Carl.

:

01:22:30,395 --> 01:22:31,175

Resolution.

:

01:22:31,285 --> 01:22:35,995

Powell saves the day, and has earned

the respect of the other cops, and he's

:

01:22:35,995 --> 01:22:38,265

reached his spiritual goal of redemption.

:

01:22:38,395 --> 01:22:38,595

Yep.

:

01:22:39,295 --> 01:22:42,375

Closing image, he puts his gun

away, and he goes back home to

:

01:22:42,375 --> 01:22:44,934

his pregnant wife, which is where

he was going when it started.

:

01:22:44,955 --> 01:22:45,245

Yep.

:

01:22:45,905 --> 01:22:50,684

So tell me, doesn't Powell have

a clear beat three act structure?

:

01:22:51,125 --> 01:22:52,655

Chris: Yeah, 100%, man.

:

01:22:52,684 --> 01:22:56,765

And like I said, it's so

gratifying, especially after

:

01:22:56,765 --> 01:22:58,805

talking about that other turd movie.

:

01:22:59,675 --> 01:22:59,945

So

:

01:23:00,465 --> 01:23:01,065

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:23:01,375 --> 01:23:04,170

So So that's the thing, man.

:

01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:09,160

It's like, for really good scripts,

for you writers out there, create a

:

01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:14,820

beat sheet, create this storyline,

this solid 3 act structure, should

:

01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:16,210

work for other main characters.

:

01:23:16,220 --> 01:23:17,770

Now, does it have to work for everybody?

:

01:23:17,809 --> 01:23:18,120

No.

:

01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:23,180

I bet you, if I took the time, I

didn't have time, but if we took

:

01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:26,830

the time, we could write out a

beat sheet like this for Hans.

:

01:23:27,570 --> 01:23:30,140

But it would almost be a complete

reversal of John's, right?

:

01:23:30,140 --> 01:23:30,580

Yeah.

:

01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:36,740

So every time something bad happens,

that's good for Hans, right?

:

01:23:36,970 --> 01:23:40,309

Every time something bad happens

to McLean, that's a plus for Hans.

:

01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:41,320

You know what I mean?

:

01:23:41,420 --> 01:23:43,880

You could almost come up with the

same beat sheet, only reverse the

:

01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:48,070

highs and lows, and you would have

Hans Gruber's beat sheet, right?

:

01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:48,610

Yep.

:

01:23:48,710 --> 01:23:53,759

And which brings me to the gold watch.

:

01:23:53,759 --> 01:23:59,240

Hans Gruber's If you were to do a

beat sheet for Hans Gruber, I can tell

:

01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:00,890

you what his spiritual goal would be.

:

01:24:01,460 --> 01:24:03,020

What lesson he needs to learn.

:

01:24:03,590 --> 01:24:07,020

And this is one of the points of

whether or not it's a Christmas movie.

:

01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,820

The gold watch signifies materialism.

:

01:24:12,290 --> 01:24:12,760

Right?

:

01:24:13,370 --> 01:24:13,910

Money.

:

01:24:15,059 --> 01:24:18,470

And they try to throw it in John's

face in the beginning of the movie.

:

01:24:19,370 --> 01:24:21,270

When Ellis says, show him the watch.

:

01:24:21,490 --> 01:24:21,850

Yeah.

:

01:24:22,230 --> 01:24:24,550

And she's like, later, and

he's like, It's a Rolex.

:

01:24:24,580 --> 01:24:27,309

It's just a token of our

appreciation for all our hard work.

:

01:24:27,580 --> 01:24:28,430

It's a Rolex.

:

01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:29,309

Ellis is such a douche.

:

01:24:29,309 --> 01:24:29,730

Fuck you, dude.

:

01:24:29,730 --> 01:24:31,920

Such a douche.

:

01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:32,550

But here's the thing.

:

01:24:32,570 --> 01:24:34,230

It represents material things.

:

01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,420

What does every Christmas movie teach us?

:

01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:39,210

Family over material things.

:

01:24:39,530 --> 01:24:39,880

Right?

:

01:24:40,710 --> 01:24:43,270

To learn what you truly need to respect.

:

01:24:43,885 --> 01:24:47,425

Is attention, affection, love, family.

:

01:24:47,745 --> 01:24:49,665

Those are the things

that matter at Christmas.

:

01:24:49,815 --> 01:24:53,445

Not money, not gifts, not material things.

:

01:24:53,765 --> 01:24:54,115

Right?

:

01:24:55,755 --> 01:24:57,865

How is this signified at the end?

:

01:24:58,075 --> 01:25:00,835

Hans Gruber is holding on to that watch.

:

01:25:01,575 --> 01:25:03,275

When he's dangling from the building.

:

01:25:03,325 --> 01:25:03,635

Yeah.

:

01:25:03,705 --> 01:25:08,165

And it's signifying that he's still

grasping at the reason why he was there.

:

01:25:08,235 --> 01:25:08,485

Yep.

:

01:25:08,775 --> 01:25:09,865

He wants money.

:

01:25:09,865 --> 01:25:11,455

He wants the material things.

:

01:25:11,705 --> 01:25:14,385

And John McClane unlatches the watch.

:

01:25:14,934 --> 01:25:15,345

Right?

:

01:25:16,005 --> 01:25:18,695

And that's what causes Gruber to fall.

:

01:25:19,555 --> 01:25:23,525

So if you were to create a beat

sheet for Hans Gruber, it would end

:

01:25:23,525 --> 01:25:26,555

with him realizing his spiritual

goal was you shouldn't have

:

01:25:26,555 --> 01:25:27,855

been chasing the money, honey.

:

01:25:28,605 --> 01:25:30,855

You shouldn't have been chasing

material things, or you wouldn't

:

01:25:30,855 --> 01:25:31,755

have fallen to your death.

:

01:25:31,809 --> 01:25:33,240

So gratifying.

:

01:25:33,580 --> 01:25:33,890

Right?

:

01:25:34,050 --> 01:25:36,690

And you could have, and again,

if we had the time, we could come

:

01:25:36,690 --> 01:25:37,820

up with a beat sheet for Hans.

:

01:25:37,940 --> 01:25:38,140

Yeah.

:

01:25:38,140 --> 01:25:39,760

And that would be his spiritual goal.

:

01:25:39,809 --> 01:25:40,000

Yeah.

:

01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:40,880

Is learning that lesson.

:

01:25:41,050 --> 01:25:45,260

Unfortunately, he learns the lesson in the

ten seconds or so it takes for him to drop

:

01:25:45,260 --> 01:25:45,400

Chris: to a seven.

:

01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:49,059

I was trying to think, I think you

could do the same thing for Holly too,

:

01:25:49,300 --> 01:25:51,260

but I'm trying to think like, it's

:

01:25:51,260 --> 01:25:54,559

Jerome: not as Holly has

a lot less opportunity.

:

01:25:54,580 --> 01:25:56,240

It is less, yeah.

:

01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:57,550

A lot less scenes.

:

01:25:58,140 --> 01:26:00,020

Chris: Well, yeah, and there's

slightly less character

:

01:26:00,020 --> 01:26:00,430

Jerome: development too.

:

01:26:00,430 --> 01:26:00,970

But she grows too.

:

01:26:01,250 --> 01:26:02,450

But she grows too.

:

01:26:02,985 --> 01:26:03,415

Right?

:

01:26:03,545 --> 01:26:03,855

Yeah.

:

01:26:03,875 --> 01:26:05,055

She, she grows in a way.

:

01:26:05,055 --> 01:26:05,645

I mean, there's definitely

:

01:26:05,645 --> 01:26:06,175

Chris: a character

:

01:26:06,175 --> 01:26:07,025

Jerome: arc there, yeah.

:

01:26:07,045 --> 01:26:11,625

Like, yeah, her character arc in a much

shorter version is, in the beginning

:

01:26:11,625 --> 01:26:16,555

of the film, she thinks John only cares

about himself and he's not willing

:

01:26:16,555 --> 01:26:18,085

to do anything for other people.

:

01:26:18,195 --> 01:26:19,525

He's not willing to sacrifice.

:

01:26:19,745 --> 01:26:23,955

By the end of the movie, when she sees

him again, and sees that he's covered

:

01:26:23,955 --> 01:26:29,135

in blood, he's, he's barely, he's

almost naked, he's got only pants on.

:

01:26:29,285 --> 01:26:29,665

Mm hmm.

:

01:26:30,355 --> 01:26:34,835

And she says, Jesus, when she

sees him, like, everything he went

:

01:26:34,845 --> 01:26:41,525

through to save her, she realizes

her arc is, he's not selfish.

:

01:26:41,725 --> 01:26:43,085

He's not egotistical.

:

01:26:43,295 --> 01:26:45,485

He did all that shit to save me.

:

01:26:46,155 --> 01:26:46,885

You know what I mean?

:

01:26:46,934 --> 01:26:47,305

Yeah.

:

01:26:47,415 --> 01:26:53,245

And that's when she realizes, you

know, her arc is to accept that.

:

01:26:54,295 --> 01:26:58,934

You know, sometimes he's brash, sometimes

he's egotistical, sometimes it's, he's

:

01:26:58,934 --> 01:27:00,985

stubborn and it's his way or no way.

:

01:27:01,345 --> 01:27:05,955

But when it comes to family, he is willing

to put everything out there for her.

:

01:27:06,515 --> 01:27:11,155

You know, so, you know, there's a

lot of growth in this film between

:

01:27:11,155 --> 01:27:13,945

those two and that's why it's

not really about the terrorists.

:

01:27:13,975 --> 01:27:15,125

It's about their marriage.

:

01:27:15,205 --> 01:27:15,825

Right, right.

:

01:27:15,855 --> 01:27:16,245

Right?

:

01:27:16,705 --> 01:27:21,475

Um, Okay, are we ready to get into the

reasons why it's a Christmas movie?

:

01:27:21,535 --> 01:27:22,395

Yeah, let's go for it.

:

01:27:22,955 --> 01:27:24,195

All right, here we go.

:

01:27:24,555 --> 01:27:30,525

I have nine points and I don't think

any of them mention the gold watch.

:

01:27:31,895 --> 01:27:36,375

So that's actually a tenth one

that I just told you ahead of time.

:

01:27:36,825 --> 01:27:37,415

Okay.

:

01:27:37,825 --> 01:27:39,065

So we actually have ten then.

:

01:27:39,285 --> 01:27:40,955

So the gold watch is a Christmas theme.

:

01:27:41,485 --> 01:27:43,785

Chasing money and not family.

:

01:27:43,815 --> 01:27:44,135

Right.

:

01:27:44,505 --> 01:27:47,405

So if we include the gold

watch, it's actually ten reasons

:

01:27:47,415 --> 01:27:48,965

why it's a Christmas movie.

:

01:27:49,235 --> 01:27:49,895

But here we go.

:

01:27:50,215 --> 01:27:51,115

I'll assume that was number one.

:

01:27:51,175 --> 01:27:51,735

Here's number two.

:

01:27:52,245 --> 01:27:53,945

Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.

:

01:27:54,150 --> 01:27:55,680

Called the Ode to Joy.

:

01:27:56,010 --> 01:28:00,559

It serves as part of the unofficial

soundtrack for the movie, right?

:

01:28:00,620 --> 01:28:00,960

Right.

:

01:28:01,830 --> 01:28:06,130

While it was not written specifically

as a Christmas song, In Japan,

:

01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:11,309

that song is strongly connected to

the idea of opening of presents.

:

01:28:13,590 --> 01:28:17,360

Chris: Well, and I think even in

Western culture, it's, it's associated

:

01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:21,010

with Christmas, probably because of

a whole bunch of Christmas movies.

:

01:28:21,230 --> 01:28:22,940

Jerome: I was gonna say

probably because of Die Hard.

:

01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:24,290

Well, maybe.

:

01:28:25,180 --> 01:28:27,309

bUt Nakatomi, of course,

is a Japanese company.

:

01:28:27,580 --> 01:28:31,390

So the reason they're playing Ode

to Joy throughout that film, in

:

01:28:31,390 --> 01:28:34,765

the movie, Not just part of the

soundtrack, but in the movie they're

:

01:28:34,765 --> 01:28:38,615

playing it at the party is because

it signifies the opening of Presence.

:

01:28:39,905 --> 01:28:43,905

Next, speaking of the soundtrack,

John McClane's unofficial sound when

:

01:28:43,905 --> 01:28:45,485

he's about to make his Presence known?

:

01:28:45,825 --> 01:28:48,635

Are the jingle bells when

something's about to happen.

:

01:28:48,845 --> 01:28:51,305

Just like at the end when he is

got the gun taped to his back.

:

01:28:51,745 --> 01:28:53,155

You hear the jingle bells jingle.

:

01:28:54,255 --> 01:28:55,305

Oh yeah, I forgot.

:

01:28:55,365 --> 01:28:56,715

Yeah, that's a sound effect.

:

01:28:56,925 --> 01:28:59,835

And it's used only when

John's about to do something.

:

01:28:59,955 --> 01:29:00,315

Yeah.

:

01:29:00,725 --> 01:29:02,255

So he's got jingle bells.

:

01:29:02,255 --> 01:29:04,055

That's his o personal soundtrack.

:

01:29:04,825 --> 01:29:06,980

Specifically the opening

arrival at the airport.

:

01:29:07,450 --> 01:29:08,540

You hear them then, too.

:

01:29:09,210 --> 01:29:10,570

Okay, next part.

:

01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,340

There are four Christmas

songs that play in the movie.

:

01:29:15,309 --> 01:29:18,650

Including a rap song at the beginning.

:

01:29:18,660 --> 01:29:19,180

Yeah, Run DMC.

:

01:29:19,180 --> 01:29:22,850

Yeah, Run DMC when

Argyle's driving him there.

:

01:29:23,100 --> 01:29:24,420

Okay next.

:

01:29:24,690 --> 01:29:28,480

The word Christmas is said 19 times.

:

01:29:29,500 --> 01:29:33,180

Which is an average of once

every six and a half minutes.

:

01:29:34,460 --> 01:29:35,740

Damn, that's crazy.

:

01:29:36,780 --> 01:29:40,990

Five, a website, or actually this is

six if you include the gold watch.

:

01:29:41,050 --> 01:29:44,570

The next point, a website

called StephenFollows.

:

01:29:44,610 --> 01:29:48,559

com which rates movies on

their level of Christmas.

:

01:29:48,940 --> 01:29:55,880

Depicted in them, Die Hard was rated as

having 99 percent more Christmas vibe than

:

01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,260

any film released in the last 30 years.

:

01:29:58,290 --> 01:29:59,690

Chris: That's insane, even more than

:

01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:00,140

Jerome: Elf?

:

01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:00,650

Come on.

:

01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:02,350

Hey man, trust the websites.

:

01:30:03,230 --> 01:30:03,750

Next!

:

01:30:04,330 --> 01:30:05,140

Well, 99.

:

01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:06,240

Maybe elf was the 100.

:

01:30:06,820 --> 01:30:07,800

Maybe elf was 100%.

:

01:30:09,450 --> 01:30:10,020

Next!

:

01:30:10,180 --> 01:30:14,940

Ultimately, the underlying theme Oh,

no, this, okay, so it is 9 points.

:

01:30:15,140 --> 01:30:17,210

This was my point here

about material things.

:

01:30:17,490 --> 01:30:19,660

Christmas is the time to

cherish family, not money.

:

01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,950

The terrorists represent money and

the desire for material things.

:

01:30:23,050 --> 01:30:27,500

Whereas John McClane becomes through

completion of a spiritual goal, a man who

:

01:30:27,500 --> 01:30:30,260

puts family and love above anything else.

:

01:30:30,530 --> 01:30:34,340

The cinematic image of this is

releasing the gold watch so that

:

01:30:34,340 --> 01:30:35,840

Hans Gruber falls to his death.

:

01:30:36,370 --> 01:30:39,940

He, he was clinging to the

material object as John protector

:

01:30:39,945 --> 01:30:41,050

of his family lets him go.

:

01:30:41,260 --> 01:30:43,180

So that was actually one of the elements.

:

01:30:43,210 --> 01:30:43,540

Okay.

:

01:30:43,540 --> 01:30:44,260

That was the sixth

:

01:30:44,260 --> 01:30:48,370

Chris: element, was the bloody

sweatshirt that said ho, ho, ho.

:

01:30:48,375 --> 01:30:49,210

In that list somewhere.

:

01:30:50,165 --> 01:30:51,155

Jerome: Did it fit into that?

:

01:30:51,985 --> 01:30:52,955

Funny you should mention.

:

01:30:52,985 --> 01:30:53,985

Point number seven.

:

01:30:54,415 --> 01:30:57,945

John and Hans make several Christmas

references throughout the film.

:

01:30:58,205 --> 01:30:59,495

One example for each.

:

01:30:59,505 --> 01:31:04,165

John writes ho ho ho on Carl's dead

brother's sweater after taking his gun.

:

01:31:04,434 --> 01:31:08,865

Hans tells Theo later in the film, It's

Christmas Theo, it's the time of miracles.

:

01:31:09,275 --> 01:31:10,065

So be of good cheer.

:

01:31:11,315 --> 01:31:12,075

Point number eight.

:

01:31:13,235 --> 01:31:14,395

Takes place on Christmas Eve.

:

01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,170

And the holiday of Christmas

is the reason John is there.

:

01:31:18,250 --> 01:31:18,550

Yeah.

:

01:31:18,620 --> 01:31:20,630

He went out there because it's Christmas.

:

01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:23,620

Nine, the ninth and final.

:

01:31:24,170 --> 01:31:29,700

An article in Men's Health, on the

Men's Health website, suggests another

:

01:31:29,700 --> 01:31:31,490

idea that other people overlook.

:

01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:36,340

McClane is serving as a

Christ like character.

:

01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:42,050

One who is, A, put under trial by

forces of evil in his attempts to redeem

:

01:31:42,050 --> 01:31:48,365

everyone, B is often barefoot and cut

with glass, thus stigmata marks are

:

01:31:48,365 --> 01:31:50,825

like Christ's wounds during crucifixion.

:

01:31:51,235 --> 01:31:52,635

This is all off a website, by the way.

:

01:31:52,765 --> 01:31:53,575

I'm not making this up.

:

01:31:54,195 --> 01:31:59,405

C, McClane must be delivered like

a child, and Powell treats McClane

:

01:31:59,655 --> 01:32:04,565

as he might his own son, though

removed a Joseph like character.

:

01:32:05,325 --> 01:32:07,885

If you can see the connections

between Religious Undertones

:

01:32:07,885 --> 01:32:10,184

and Die Hard, Die Hard is.

:

01:32:10,645 --> 01:32:11,465

A Christmas movie.

:

01:32:12,555 --> 01:32:15,975

Alright, that last one was a

stretch, but I didn't include it.

:

01:32:15,975 --> 01:32:20,905

So, alright, three reasons why

it is not a Christmas movie, and

:

01:32:20,905 --> 01:32:22,115

I can debunk all three of them.

:

01:32:22,715 --> 01:32:26,965

Number one, Bruce Willis himself

said it was not a Christmas movie.

:

01:32:28,175 --> 01:32:31,085

My argument is, if we start

believing now everything celebrities

:

01:32:31,085 --> 01:32:34,105

say, then, you know Right.

:

01:32:34,735 --> 01:32:36,285

We'll never find our

way out of this world.

:

01:32:36,335 --> 01:32:36,785

Yes.

:

01:32:37,265 --> 01:32:38,545

Willis has kids.

:

01:32:38,970 --> 01:32:43,030

And likely wanted to spend their

youth watching other holiday fare

:

01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:45,780

and not his vulgar laced film.

:

01:32:47,150 --> 01:32:48,480

So his opinion is compromised.

:

01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:53,550

Two, the distribution company 20th Century

Fox obviously didn't see it as a Christmas

:

01:32:53,550 --> 01:32:55,820

as it was released in July of:

:

01:32:56,710 --> 01:32:58,300

Well I have a debunking for that too.

:

01:32:59,135 --> 01:33:03,545

The:

was released on the 4th of July

:

01:33:04,745 --> 01:33:08,405

.

Chris: And I would also say they knew when the dv, the, the CDs right.

:

01:33:08,410 --> 01:33:09,850

Or, or VHS tapes.

:

01:33:09,850 --> 01:33:11,592

And they didn't have DVDs back then.

:

01:33:11,597 --> 01:33:11,925

Right.

:

01:33:11,930 --> 01:33:15,580

That could be, they knew when they'd be

released just in time for the Christmas

:

01:33:15,580 --> 01:33:15,970

Jerome: season.

:

01:33:15,975 --> 01:33:16,990

They didn't have DVDs yet.

:

01:33:17,050 --> 01:33:17,831

That was still, yeah, they did h.

:

01:33:18,309 --> 01:33:19,350

Not:

:

01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:21,420

That was more of a:

:

01:33:21,470 --> 01:33:23,490

Chris: Well, I know they had audio CDs in

:

01:33:23,490 --> 01:33:23,940

Jerome: 88.

:

01:33:24,180 --> 01:33:25,000

Well, yeah, they had audio CDs.

:

01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,980

They didn't have DVDs until the late 90s.

:

01:33:26,980 --> 01:33:27,710

Yeah, I know.

:

01:33:27,710 --> 01:33:27,920

But, but

:

01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:28,309

Chris: still.

:

01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:29,920

I'm gonna, I'm gonna

fact check you on that.

:

01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:31,270

Jerome: Okay, fact check me.

:

01:33:31,580 --> 01:33:34,770

You're talking to a guy who worked at

Blockbuster Video for God's sakes, and

:

01:33:34,770 --> 01:33:37,020

you're gonna tell me when DVDs came out.

:

01:33:38,710 --> 01:33:39,500

Alright, anyway.

:

01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:41,120

So, so yeah.

:

01:33:41,120 --> 01:33:44,800

So to that point though, they knew

it would hit video at Christmastime.

:

01:33:45,809 --> 01:33:46,360

Right?

:

01:33:47,135 --> 01:33:48,365

Damn, you're right, dude.

:

01:33:48,865 --> 01:33:52,995

I know, but, you know, if only I heard

that enough at home from my wife.

:

01:33:52,995 --> 01:33:58,485

Chris: DVDs became available

in:

:

01:33:58,485 --> 01:34:00,785

March 97 in the United States.

:

01:34:01,465 --> 01:34:02,905

Jerome: I worked at Blockbuster Video.

:

01:34:02,905 --> 01:34:06,695

I can't believe that you

challenged me on that.

:

01:34:06,695 --> 01:34:09,495

Alright, anyway, but to that point, right?

:

01:34:09,495 --> 01:34:14,645

They knew that if they released it in

July, it'll be ready for VHS consumption

:

01:34:14,645 --> 01:34:18,445

at Okay, third and final point.

:

01:34:19,014 --> 01:34:25,455

The central idea that what makes a film a

Christmas movie is if you take the holiday

:

01:34:25,505 --> 01:34:27,705

out of the movie, does it still work?

:

01:34:28,225 --> 01:34:29,555

And in Die Hard, yes.

:

01:34:29,835 --> 01:34:31,615

McClane could have been coming out to L.

:

01:34:31,615 --> 01:34:31,695

A.

:

01:34:31,715 --> 01:34:33,915

to see his family for

any number of situations.

:

01:34:34,125 --> 01:34:35,565

It could have been a child's birthday.

:

01:34:35,735 --> 01:34:36,715

It could have been Easter.

:

01:34:36,715 --> 01:34:37,815

It could have been Fourth of July.

:

01:34:37,835 --> 01:34:39,264

It didn't have to be Christmas.

:

01:34:39,535 --> 01:34:41,815

However, here's how I debunk that.

:

01:34:42,735 --> 01:34:47,625

If you take the basic theme of

It's a Wonderful Life widely

:

01:34:47,625 --> 01:34:51,905

considered the ultimate Christmas

classic and you take Christmas out

:

01:34:51,905 --> 01:34:54,270

of it That movie still works too.

:

01:34:55,100 --> 01:34:59,040

It's about a suicidal man who's

shown by an angel how his life

:

01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:00,760

would be if he never existed.

:

01:35:01,170 --> 01:35:04,130

It really has nothing to do

with Christmas, basically.

:

01:35:04,430 --> 01:35:10,290

In fact, Christmas isn't even mentioned

in the It's a Wonderful Life logline.

:

01:35:10,740 --> 01:35:12,809

But it's mentioned in

the Die Hard logline.

:

01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:15,559

So suck on that, people.

:

01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:16,880

Suck on that.

:

01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:21,020

Die Hard, I have just proven

to you, is a Christmas movie.

:

01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:24,030

I think the argument is dead now.

:

01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:24,750

We can move on.

:

01:35:24,780 --> 01:35:25,920

Yes, well done.

:

01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:28,410

Any final thoughts on Die Hard

before we get to Six Degrees?

:

01:35:28,650 --> 01:35:29,230

Nope, just watch it.

:

01:35:29,230 --> 01:35:33,200

I feel like, as usual, I feel like I've

been monopolizing the conversation.

:

01:35:33,380 --> 01:35:33,950

Yeah, I came

:

01:35:33,950 --> 01:35:34,900

Chris: along for the ride.

:

01:35:34,900 --> 01:35:38,510

I mean, I just, I enjoyed,

I enjoyed re watching it.

:

01:35:38,540 --> 01:35:40,670

I enjoyed, yeah, just talking about it.

:

01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:41,410

It's fun.

:

01:35:41,480 --> 01:35:42,980

I just love this movie so much.

:

01:35:43,715 --> 01:35:47,715

Jerome: So, yeah, so before we get to Six

Degrees, the final thing, I mean writers,

:

01:35:47,905 --> 01:35:53,245

a lot of times we do this for, for

writers, screenwriters, guys, can you see?

:

01:35:53,965 --> 01:35:54,415

Or gals.

:

01:35:55,434 --> 01:35:59,495

Well, when I say guys, it's like,

I include the gals, it's like

:

01:35:59,495 --> 01:36:01,585

calling a chick a dude, you know?

:

01:36:02,325 --> 01:36:04,480

Like, you don't, you

know, my seven year old.

:

01:36:04,870 --> 01:36:06,520

It's been calling me bro lately.

:

01:36:07,230 --> 01:36:08,850

Is that a thing nowadays?

:

01:36:09,440 --> 01:36:10,510

I don't know where she got it.

:

01:36:10,510 --> 01:36:11,530

I want to hear her say it.

:

01:36:11,850 --> 01:36:13,770

But Vivi is like, bro, bro.

:

01:36:14,210 --> 01:36:16,639

And I'm like, I'm not your bro.

:

01:36:17,440 --> 01:36:18,400

I'm your father.

:

01:36:18,639 --> 01:36:19,340

That's awesome.

:

01:36:19,350 --> 01:36:22,360

So, so when I say guys, I

mean, yes, I mean guys and

:

01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:25,730

gals, dudes, everyone, writers.

:

01:36:26,860 --> 01:36:27,950

DO you see the difference?

:

01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:30,250

Again, we talked about this on Jaws vs.

:

01:36:30,260 --> 01:36:30,910

Jaws 4.

:

01:36:31,309 --> 01:36:33,139

Do you see the difference

between these two?

:

01:36:33,460 --> 01:36:36,350

Fatman had very little structure at all.

:

01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:40,040

And the frustrating part of Fatman

is that it had great opportunity.

:

01:36:40,370 --> 01:36:42,100

It had some fun themes.

:

01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:44,469

That could have been explored.

:

01:36:44,700 --> 01:36:46,500

With some amazing payoffs.

:

01:36:47,719 --> 01:36:51,880

What I love most about a movie like

Scrooged Is, even though it's Bill Murray

:

01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:57,690

at his finest and it's filled with so many

funny parts, there's sad parts in it too.

:

01:36:58,490 --> 01:37:01,190

A lot of the character development is sad.

:

01:37:01,460 --> 01:37:07,639

He's a sad person and he has to deal

with this sadness that's inside of him.

:

01:37:08,170 --> 01:37:13,090

In order for him to reach his spiritual

goal, fat Man had that opportunity.

:

01:37:13,300 --> 01:37:14,410

Fat Man could have been.

:

01:37:14,905 --> 01:37:19,885

Our era's Scrooged, which also

came out in:

:

01:37:21,065 --> 01:37:22,565

We could have done Scrooge vs.

:

01:37:22,565 --> 01:37:22,965

Diehard.

:

01:37:23,255 --> 01:37:25,014

That probably would have

been more fun for us.

:

01:37:25,465 --> 01:37:25,844

But

:

01:37:26,225 --> 01:37:28,264

Chris: You know, another

movie I thought of was Mr.

:

01:37:28,344 --> 01:37:31,155

Destiny, even though that wasn't

really a Christmas movie, but

:

01:37:31,155 --> 01:37:35,285

it had the same idea of It's a

Wonderful Life type you know, story.

:

01:37:35,425 --> 01:37:35,815

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:37:36,385 --> 01:37:37,105

Absolutely.

:

01:37:37,655 --> 01:37:42,195

And Home Alone is another one that

mixes a healthy dose of comedy with

:

01:37:42,195 --> 01:37:46,764

some really heavy thematic elements, you

know with the old man that lives next

:

01:37:46,764 --> 01:37:49,934

door, his redemption with his family.

:

01:37:50,184 --> 01:37:54,655

You know, like there's a good, a

good movie has to have a connection.

:

01:37:54,655 --> 01:37:58,285

You can't just have some funny

parts and some sad parts.

:

01:37:59,065 --> 01:38:01,790

You have to have They have to make sense.

:

01:38:01,790 --> 01:38:02,930

There has to be cohesiveness.

:

01:38:03,309 --> 01:38:08,570

Fat Man delivers some funny parts,

but it doesn't really, aside from

:

01:38:08,570 --> 01:38:11,559

some action scenes, it doesn't

deliver enough of the drama.

:

01:38:12,450 --> 01:38:14,780

We don't care enough about

any of these characters.

:

01:38:14,790 --> 01:38:16,960

Sad to say, even Santa Claus.

:

01:38:17,630 --> 01:38:20,410

I didn't care enough

about these characters.

:

01:38:20,420 --> 01:38:21,250

Right, right.

:

01:38:21,580 --> 01:38:22,100

You know?

:

01:38:22,469 --> 01:38:26,160

Because Santa is played by Mel Gibson

might be the only reason why I cared.

:

01:38:26,309 --> 01:38:26,540

Right.

:

01:38:26,770 --> 01:38:28,200

Because, because I like Mel Gibson!

:

01:38:28,580 --> 01:38:29,080

You know what I mean?

:

01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:33,760

Like, I, I like him in movies and I

like when he plays characters like that.

:

01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:37,730

But there was so much that they

could have done and didn't.

:

01:38:37,740 --> 01:38:42,059

They failed on so many parts

and that's the frustrating part.

:

01:38:42,070 --> 01:38:43,450

Die Hard delivers.

:

01:38:43,934 --> 01:38:46,035

Right Die Hard delivers on its premise.

:

01:38:46,465 --> 01:38:47,705

It delivers on everything.

:

01:38:47,705 --> 01:38:52,365

It's supposed to do and fat man simply

does not right so from a writing

:

01:38:52,375 --> 01:38:57,225

standpoint, I mean, especially if we

you know as we talked about if you

:

01:38:57,245 --> 01:39:02,010

can do the beats The, the three act

structure and the beat sequences with

:

01:39:02,080 --> 01:39:04,160

other characters like we did for Powell.

:

01:39:04,260 --> 01:39:04,730

Right.

:

01:39:05,010 --> 01:39:06,780

Then you know it's a damn good script.

:

01:39:06,830 --> 01:39:08,809

It's, other characters have arcs.

:

01:39:08,820 --> 01:39:09,150

Yeah.

:

01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:11,860

They have goals that they need to achieve.

:

01:39:12,969 --> 01:39:16,320

Fatman, first of all, can't seem

to figure out who the damn lead is.

:

01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:17,059

Yeah, if you can't figure

:

01:39:17,059 --> 01:39:18,540

Chris: out the lead, you're in trouble.

:

01:39:19,010 --> 01:39:19,090

And

:

01:39:19,250 --> 01:39:22,020

Jerome: then you got three

kind of, three main characters,

:

01:39:22,450 --> 01:39:24,150

and none of them truly arc.

:

01:39:24,430 --> 01:39:24,910

Yeah.

:

01:39:25,410 --> 01:39:25,730

Right?

:

01:39:25,780 --> 01:39:27,710

I mean, the closest one to arc is Santa.

:

01:39:28,059 --> 01:39:29,550

But he arcs at the midpoint scene.

:

01:39:31,620 --> 01:39:32,130

Chris: You know?

:

01:39:32,740 --> 01:39:36,650

Hey, before we jump into Six

Degrees, I was, you mentioned the

:

01:39:36,650 --> 01:39:38,469

Jaws episode a couple of times.

:

01:39:38,490 --> 01:39:42,100

We haven't, like, really talked

about it on this show because

:

01:39:42,110 --> 01:39:47,100

that was our very first guest

appearance on someone else's podcast.

:

01:39:47,110 --> 01:39:52,225

So you, it, It should have gone

up on the beginning of December.

:

01:39:52,255 --> 01:39:55,355

This will be released later

in December, before Christmas.

:

01:39:55,715 --> 01:39:57,715

So go check it out if you

haven't listened, or watched

:

01:39:57,725 --> 01:39:59,075

that one yet, or listened to it.

:

01:39:59,325 --> 01:40:00,955

We are going to release the audio.

:

01:40:01,125 --> 01:40:05,715

Now Lee from Lights, Camera, Rant,

who is out of Melbourne, Australia.

:

01:40:06,155 --> 01:40:09,945

He was gracious enough to give

us the audio and the video.

:

01:40:10,295 --> 01:40:11,014

We love you, Lee!

:

01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:15,690

It's gonna probably take me a bit before

we get it up on our YouTube channel

:

01:40:15,950 --> 01:40:19,420

so I just would suggest, and I'll put

it in these show notes, if you want to

:

01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:23,389

watch the YouTube, we'll send you to

his YouTube channel, probably for the

:

01:40:23,389 --> 01:40:27,820

first month or whatever that it's, it's

out, we just want to send the traffic

:

01:40:27,820 --> 01:40:32,280

to his YouTube channel and give him all

the love because it was a fun episode.

:

01:40:32,330 --> 01:40:32,630

Yeah.

:

01:40:32,650 --> 01:40:37,844

He, I know Lee enjoyed just us

breaking down Both movies and

:

01:40:37,865 --> 01:40:43,625

comparing a really, truly great movie

with a really, truly awful movie.

:

01:40:44,085 --> 01:40:45,865

And it was, it was frickin awesome.

:

01:40:46,065 --> 01:40:47,115

So, and that was a long one.

:

01:40:47,115 --> 01:40:48,505

It was like what, two and a half hours?

:

01:40:48,505 --> 01:40:49,895

Jerome: Two and a half hours.

:

01:40:49,905 --> 01:40:53,545

So, if you're like have to drive

somewhere far this holiday season.

:

01:40:53,575 --> 01:40:54,455

Yeah, listen to that one.

:

01:40:54,455 --> 01:40:56,111

If you're going to see family

somewhere, that would be an opportunity.

:

01:40:56,111 --> 01:40:57,735

You won't be able to watch

it while you're driving.

:

01:40:57,915 --> 01:40:58,225

Right.

:

01:40:58,264 --> 01:40:59,835

But, there's not much to see anyway.

:

01:40:59,835 --> 01:41:01,925

Just, it's the sound

is all you really need.

:

01:41:01,925 --> 01:41:02,075

Yeah,

:

01:41:02,075 --> 01:41:04,514

Chris: you can listen to

the audio on our feed here.

:

01:41:04,725 --> 01:41:05,055

So.

:

01:41:05,755 --> 01:41:06,005

Yeah,

:

01:41:06,005 --> 01:41:08,344

Jerome: so yeah, very

good shout out to Lee.

:

01:41:08,344 --> 01:41:09,514

That was a lot of fun.

:

01:41:10,025 --> 01:41:11,605

I want to do that again, by the way.

:

01:41:12,335 --> 01:41:15,955

Because he had, see what he, the

benefit of having video along with

:

01:41:15,955 --> 01:41:20,145

the audio was he was able to put

images on the screen of the stuff we

:

01:41:20,145 --> 01:41:21,655

were talking about, so that was fun.

:

01:41:21,815 --> 01:41:22,065

Yeah.

:

01:41:22,415 --> 01:41:23,355

Yeah, that was a good show.

:

01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:27,240

Chris: I want to hear how you did this.

:

01:41:27,300 --> 01:41:28,250

The six degrees.

:

01:41:29,750 --> 01:41:32,040

Jerome: So, by the way, as

we said, this show will be

:

01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:33,660

released around Christmas time?

:

01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:34,020

Yeah.

:

01:41:34,100 --> 01:41:34,360

Yeah?

:

01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:35,780

So we're recording it.

:

01:41:35,790 --> 01:41:37,960

This week is actually Thanksgiving week.

:

01:41:38,010 --> 01:41:38,260

Yep.

:

01:41:38,370 --> 01:41:40,570

We had just dropped our

Veterans Day special.

:

01:41:40,580 --> 01:41:41,500

Hope you listened to it.

:

01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:42,250

Hope you liked it.

:

01:41:42,700 --> 01:41:44,180

It was the two war films.

:

01:41:44,469 --> 01:41:46,790

All quiet on the Western

Front and the Thin Red Line.

:

01:41:47,150 --> 01:41:49,530

And this week is literally

Thanksgiving week.

:

01:41:49,530 --> 01:41:52,290

Like, it's Tuesday and

Thanksgiving is in two days.

:

01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:52,900

Two days.

:

01:41:52,910 --> 01:41:55,040

So we are recording this today.

:

01:41:55,330 --> 01:41:56,400

In our holiday outfits.

:

01:41:56,400 --> 01:41:58,190

Again, you can't really

see us, but we're wearing

:

01:41:58,250 --> 01:41:59,400

Chris: Check out our Instagram.

:

01:41:59,410 --> 01:42:04,850

I'm sure these, these photos that we

took of ourselves recording Instagram.

:

01:42:04,969 --> 01:42:08,480

Jerome: Yes, and but you won't hear this

until probably the week of Christmas.

:

01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:10,030

But we are excited.

:

01:42:10,255 --> 01:42:11,965

For next year, I know we've

talked about it already, but

:

01:42:11,965 --> 01:42:12,934

we're going to plug it again.

:

01:42:13,135 --> 01:42:15,905

We're going to start

January off quickly,:

:

01:42:16,275 --> 01:42:18,445

We're going to do Legally Blonde vs.

:

01:42:18,475 --> 01:42:21,925

Liar Liar will be our

of:

:

01:42:23,045 --> 01:42:27,005

Chris: Not a couple newer movies,

but a couple fun comedy legal films.

:

01:42:27,075 --> 01:42:27,344

Fun,

:

01:42:27,385 --> 01:42:28,094

Jerome: yeah, fun.

:

01:42:28,094 --> 01:42:28,545

Law.

:

01:42:29,900 --> 01:42:33,380

And then February, we're, we're getting

back themed a little bit, a little

:

01:42:33,389 --> 01:42:35,120

romance theme for Valentine's Day.

:

01:42:35,430 --> 01:42:38,030

We're going to do a couple of

romances that deal with time travel.

:

01:42:38,430 --> 01:42:41,410

Christopher Reeves Somewhere in

Time with Jane Seymour and then

:

01:42:41,410 --> 01:42:44,340

the Rachel McAdams About Time.

:

01:42:44,340 --> 01:42:45,210

About Time, yeah.

:

01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:45,639

About

:

01:42:45,639 --> 01:42:46,030

Chris: Time.

:

01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:47,760

And you haven't seen that

one yet, so I'm excited.

:

01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:48,880

I haven't seen it, yeah.

:

01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:49,940

I love that movie.

:

01:42:50,180 --> 01:42:52,719

Jerome: I haven't seen it yet, so I'm

excited about breaking that one down.

:

01:42:53,010 --> 01:42:54,670

I really hope I don't think it's a turd.

:

01:42:55,660 --> 01:42:57,700

Because then we'll have

something to argue about.

:

01:42:58,230 --> 01:42:59,530

Alright, Six Degrees.

:

01:43:00,210 --> 01:43:01,430

What do you got for me today?

:

01:43:01,580 --> 01:43:02,830

So, I threw a couple

:

01:43:02,830 --> 01:43:03,610

Chris: names at ya.

:

01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:05,400

So, from Die Hard.

:

01:43:06,830 --> 01:43:08,570

Jerome: Wait, you want

to explain the rules

:

01:43:08,570 --> 01:43:08,990

Chris: real quick?

:

01:43:09,010 --> 01:43:13,210

Well, in Six Degrees, we pick

an actor from each of the

:

01:43:13,210 --> 01:43:15,330

films that we were discussing.

:

01:43:16,860 --> 01:43:24,969

wE want to see if it's possible to

connect these two actors by choosing

:

01:43:25,540 --> 01:43:29,150

Movies that they've been in and other

people who've been in those movies

:

01:43:29,150 --> 01:43:33,590

with them, so it's basically the Six

Degrees of Kevin Bacon, except we're

:

01:43:33,590 --> 01:43:38,020

using any two actors, so we're picking

two actors from these movies, and the

:

01:43:38,059 --> 01:43:42,770

added level of difficulty is you cannot

use the movies we discussed today.

:

01:43:43,380 --> 01:43:48,270

So, so you can't use Die Hard

or Fat Man in these movies, er,

:

01:43:48,270 --> 01:43:50,230

in the Six Degree Connections.

:

01:43:51,030 --> 01:43:53,639

Jerome: Which can be difficult

when you pick people that have

:

01:43:53,639 --> 01:43:54,670

only been in a few things.

:

01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:55,580

Yes, so

:

01:43:55,580 --> 01:43:57,920

Chris: I kind of did

that today a little bit.

:

01:43:58,020 --> 01:44:03,405

So the first person I chose

from Die Hard was James Shig

:

01:44:03,485 --> 01:44:04,735

How do you pronounce his name?

:

01:44:04,735 --> 01:44:04,805

Shigeta?

:

01:44:04,805 --> 01:44:05,535

Shigeta?

:

01:44:05,585 --> 01:44:06,305

Shigeta.

:

01:44:06,675 --> 01:44:07,005

Shigeta.

:

01:44:07,055 --> 01:44:09,385

And he played what was his

name in the movie, the CEO?

:

01:44:09,385 --> 01:44:10,184

Joe Takagi.

:

01:44:10,255 --> 01:44:11,295

Jerome: Yeah, Takagi.

:

01:44:11,295 --> 01:44:13,045

Joseph Yoshinobu Takagi.

:

01:44:13,055 --> 01:44:13,615

Chris: Yes.

:

01:44:14,005 --> 01:44:19,035

So him, and I wanted to see if you

could connect him to Chance Hertzfield.

:

01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:21,380

Who is in Fat Man, he's the kid.

:

01:44:21,610 --> 01:44:21,750

He

:

01:44:21,750 --> 01:44:22,510

Jerome: plays Billy.

:

01:44:22,570 --> 01:44:23,330

Billy the kid.

:

01:44:24,309 --> 01:44:27,139

Which, by the way, a little funny

thing, a little added thing I will say

:

01:44:27,150 --> 01:44:31,280

in Fat Man, is the first appearance of

Billy when he's in his room, there's

:

01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:33,559

a painting of Napoleon on the wall.

:

01:44:33,770 --> 01:44:34,020

I know.

:

01:44:34,540 --> 01:44:36,870

Like, talk about little

man syndrome, right?

:

01:44:36,870 --> 01:44:37,600

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:41,330

Laying it on pretty thick, but it was,

but it's still pretty funny, it worked.

:

01:44:41,690 --> 01:44:45,559

Chance Hertzfeld, who we said

Hertzfield, who we said was cast

:

01:44:45,559 --> 01:44:47,080

because he looks like Ben Shapiro.

:

01:44:47,540 --> 01:44:48,889

He does look like a little Ben Shapiro.

:

01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:52,130

And James Shigeta, who actually

been around for a long time.

:

01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:56,480

A lot of people think because he played

Takagi so well, he must be Japanese.

:

01:44:56,740 --> 01:44:57,380

He's not.

:

01:44:57,389 --> 01:44:58,639

He's actually an American actor.

:

01:44:58,639 --> 01:44:59,780

He was born in Hawaii.

:

01:45:00,150 --> 01:45:03,150

And he died in:

:

01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:06,240

So, good long year for him,

good long career for him.

:

01:45:06,580 --> 01:45:08,240

Not a lot of huge movies though.

:

01:45:08,555 --> 01:45:13,135

When you Google him or Wikipedia

him, most will say best known

:

01:45:13,135 --> 01:45:15,225

for playing Takagi in Die Hard.

:

01:45:16,105 --> 01:45:18,955

But, I got news for you.

:

01:45:20,075 --> 01:45:22,835

ames Shigeta was in Midway in:

:

01:45:22,875 --> 01:45:23,615

I saw that.

:

01:45:23,945 --> 01:45:26,665

Midway is loaded with people.

:

01:45:26,715 --> 01:45:27,094

Right.

:

01:45:27,125 --> 01:45:28,925

One of which is James Coburn.

:

01:45:29,495 --> 01:45:33,145

Who was in eraser:

Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.

:

01:45:33,385 --> 01:45:35,065

He's in that with James Conn.

:

01:45:35,445 --> 01:45:41,465

And James Conn was in a:

movie called Prego Land that

:

01:45:41,469 --> 01:45:43,115

featured Chance Hertz Field.

:

01:45:43,115 --> 01:45:43,805

Wow.

:

01:45:43,985 --> 01:45:44,975

Chris: That was short Three.

:

01:45:45,035 --> 01:45:45,905

Wow.

:

01:45:45,995 --> 01:45:46,440

Jerome: Three connections.

:

01:45:46,620 --> 01:45:47,440

I'm really surprised.

:

01:45:47,940 --> 01:45:51,755

Midway Eraser and Prego Land are

the three movies that will connect

:

01:45:51,755 --> 01:45:53,795

James Shada to Chance Hurtz Field.

:

01:45:53,795 --> 01:45:54,125

Wow.

:

01:45:54,184 --> 01:45:54,440

Well done.

:

01:45:55,480 --> 01:45:57,950

Well, again, it's not a stumped Jerome.

:

01:45:57,960 --> 01:45:58,620

No, no.

:

01:45:58,719 --> 01:46:00,139

We just want to see if it can be

:

01:46:00,139 --> 01:46:00,440

Chris: done.

:

01:46:00,450 --> 01:46:02,860

I'm just surprised, because

that kid hasn't been in a lot of

:

01:46:02,860 --> 01:46:03,480

Jerome: films.

:

01:46:04,330 --> 01:46:05,130

He really hasn't.

:

01:46:05,130 --> 01:46:06,880

Fat Man is probably his biggest film.

:

01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:07,480

Yeah.

:

01:46:08,219 --> 01:46:08,830

That he's done.

:

01:46:09,210 --> 01:46:10,200

And again, good for him, man.

:

01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:11,950

Anytime you can nail a Mel Gibson movie.

:

01:46:12,030 --> 01:46:12,630

Yeah, right.

:

01:46:12,660 --> 01:46:12,850

You know?

:

01:46:13,770 --> 01:46:16,440

And not just be in it,

share a scene with Mel.

:

01:46:16,510 --> 01:46:16,800

Yeah.

:

01:46:16,830 --> 01:46:17,290

You know?

:

01:46:17,710 --> 01:46:18,200

That's good.

:

01:46:18,200 --> 01:46:20,360

I mean, again, I did see an

interview with Mel where he talked

:

01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,510

about You know, doing this movie.

:

01:46:22,889 --> 01:46:27,090

And, he was talking about you know, the

casting of Mary Ann Jean Baptiste as Mrs.

:

01:46:27,090 --> 01:46:27,510

Claus.

:

01:46:27,510 --> 01:46:28,510

I already talked about that.

:

01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:31,120

But, another one of the things

he said that I liked was when

:

01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:32,330

he met with the brothers.

:

01:46:32,639 --> 01:46:34,860

By the way, you did have a little

bit of trivia you forgot to mention.

:

01:46:35,255 --> 01:46:37,995

The brother's last name is Nelms, is it?

:

01:46:38,115 --> 01:46:38,365

Yeah.

:

01:46:38,365 --> 01:46:39,514

And there's a was it a

:

01:46:39,514 --> 01:46:39,958

Chris: pharmacy or something?

:

01:46:39,958 --> 01:46:40,253

Convenience store.

:

01:46:40,253 --> 01:46:40,401

It's

:

01:46:40,401 --> 01:46:41,287

Jerome: like a convenience

store or something.

:

01:46:41,287 --> 01:46:43,175

A convenience store in the

background that says, Nelms

:

01:46:43,215 --> 01:46:44,725

Convenience Store or something.

:

01:46:45,085 --> 01:46:45,295

Yeah,

:

01:46:45,295 --> 01:46:49,255

Chris: it's funny because I was watching

it, and I had, I was kind of looking down

:

01:46:49,255 --> 01:46:53,875

at IMDB and stuff, and looking at Who

directed it while I'm watching the movie.

:

01:46:54,195 --> 01:46:59,485

And then that, that scene comes up and

yeah, I paused it and I had to rewind it.

:

01:46:59,485 --> 01:47:01,655

I'm like, wait a minute,

did that, yep, it does.

:

01:47:01,655 --> 01:47:03,805

It's called Nelm's Convenience Store.

:

01:47:04,245 --> 01:47:06,965

Jerome: Yeah, the last name

of the writer's directors.

:

01:47:07,025 --> 01:47:07,344

Yeah.

:

01:47:07,395 --> 01:47:11,215

But what Mel says in the interview

was funny was when they first set up a

:

01:47:11,215 --> 01:47:16,268

meeting to meet with him, what won him

over, and, and this gives you an idea

:

01:47:16,268 --> 01:47:18,495

why Mel occasionally makes these turds.

:

01:47:18,925 --> 01:47:22,995

Like we talked about On the Line, which

is another Mel movie that we trashed

:

01:47:23,344 --> 01:47:25,395

when we did the Talk Radio episode.

:

01:47:25,875 --> 01:47:30,035

Mel just likes filmmakers, I think,

and he likes people that gets excited.

:

01:47:30,684 --> 01:47:34,585

He said that when he sat down to talk with

these guys, they had lunch somewhere, and

:

01:47:34,585 --> 01:47:36,055

they're trying to pitch this movie to him.

:

01:47:36,325 --> 01:47:39,940

He said what won him over

Was how excited they were.

:

01:47:40,290 --> 01:47:42,650

About the movie and

about making the movie.

:

01:47:43,090 --> 01:47:46,920

And that just, you know, I mean, you

can imagine a guy like Mel Gibson

:

01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:51,000

who spent his career in film How

many big wigs he must have dealt

:

01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:53,610

with that see it only as a business?

:

01:47:54,130 --> 01:47:55,080

Right, right, right, right.

:

01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:57,530

We're gonna do this movie because it's

gonna make money and blah, blah, blah.

:

01:47:57,750 --> 01:48:01,380

It must be refreshing to see

young guys come along and be

:

01:48:01,380 --> 01:48:03,540

like Dude, we got this script.

:

01:48:03,930 --> 01:48:04,940

It's not that great.

:

01:48:05,090 --> 01:48:06,350

But man, it's gonna be fun.

:

01:48:06,350 --> 01:48:06,830

You know what I mean?

:

01:48:07,805 --> 01:48:10,255

He probably looked at the script

and was like, This script's a

:

01:48:10,255 --> 01:48:12,025

mess, but these guys are fun.

:

01:48:12,545 --> 01:48:16,535

And they're, they're excited, and

they're enthusiastic about making movies.

:

01:48:16,895 --> 01:48:20,105

Which, which brings me

back to Jesse's criticism.

:

01:48:22,725 --> 01:48:25,264

Which is funny about, what'd she say?

:

01:48:25,264 --> 01:48:27,365

It bothers me that people can make movies?

:

01:48:27,915 --> 01:48:27,934

Yeah,

:

01:48:28,145 --> 01:48:32,775

Chris: she said, this movie is making me

hate the fact that people can make movies.

:

01:48:33,105 --> 01:48:36,155

I think she meant like that

anyone can make movies.

:

01:48:36,325 --> 01:48:37,145

Jerome: Right, right.

:

01:48:37,335 --> 01:48:38,825

Well, these guys are not professional.

:

01:48:38,844 --> 01:48:40,285

Well, they're professionals,

but you know what I mean?

:

01:48:40,285 --> 01:48:41,465

Like, they're not huge names.

:

01:48:41,625 --> 01:48:41,965

Yeah.

:

01:48:42,055 --> 01:48:44,094

But they're obviously passionate, right?

:

01:48:44,105 --> 01:48:46,165

They're obviously, they

won over Mel Gibson.

:

01:48:46,480 --> 01:48:46,719

Yeah.

:

01:48:46,730 --> 01:48:48,750

So they gotta be passionate

about filmmaking.

:

01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:52,130

Anything else on Fathard?

:

01:48:52,410 --> 01:48:52,969

Chris: Fathard?

:

01:48:53,210 --> 01:48:54,000

Are we gonna use that

:

01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:54,330

Jerome: name?

:

01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:58,730

I think we're leaning towards

Fathard as the title of this episode,

:

01:48:59,059 --> 01:49:00,550

combining Fat Man with Die Hard.

:

01:49:00,550 --> 01:49:00,670

I'll

:

01:49:00,670 --> 01:49:04,270

Chris: definitely have to put in the

title, Fathard, a Christmas special.

:

01:49:04,300 --> 01:49:04,550

Yes!

:

01:49:05,330 --> 01:49:05,630

Yes!

:

01:49:06,350 --> 01:49:08,630

Jerome: Because what's more

Christmas than Fathard?

:

01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:11,719

But no, go watch these.

:

01:49:11,740 --> 01:49:13,730

If you haven't seen Die

Hard, obviously watch it.

:

01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:15,160

Another little side trivia.

:

01:49:15,335 --> 01:49:19,965

Siskel and Ebert back in:

Ebert gave Die Hard a thumbs down.

:

01:49:20,555 --> 01:49:21,764

So think about that for a second.

:

01:49:21,775 --> 01:49:21,965

We've,

:

01:49:21,985 --> 01:49:23,844

Chris: we've mentioned

that on several of our

:

01:49:23,844 --> 01:49:25,385

Jerome: podcast episodes.

:

01:49:25,385 --> 01:49:28,184

So I always tell people, if you ever

feel like you made a mistake in life,

:

01:49:28,225 --> 01:49:32,875

just console yourself with knowing that

Roger Ebert gave Die Hard a thumbs down.

:

01:49:32,895 --> 01:49:34,715

But his argument was.

:

01:49:35,740 --> 01:49:38,830

And, and the funny thing is, is

he mentions this, you can, you can

:

01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:42,639

YouTube it, the actual episode where

they talk about it back in:

:

01:49:43,230 --> 01:49:47,400

He really couldn't get

out of Deputy Dwayne T.

:

01:49:47,400 --> 01:49:49,500

Robinson, John Gleeson's character.

:

01:49:49,790 --> 01:49:52,550

He couldn't get that out of, he

said that was the worst character.

:

01:49:52,980 --> 01:49:55,969

It took him out of the film

because he said everything he

:

01:49:55,980 --> 01:49:58,870

said and did is something that

a real police chief wouldn't do.

:

01:49:59,670 --> 01:50:03,430

Like, a real police chief wouldn't

be so combative to somebody

:

01:50:03,430 --> 01:50:04,510

that's trying to help them.

:

01:50:05,430 --> 01:50:08,940

You know, so it really took him out

of the film, and he thought he was the

:

01:50:08,940 --> 01:50:10,500

worst written character in the film.

:

01:50:10,830 --> 01:50:11,930

And he just couldn't deal with it.

:

01:50:12,190 --> 01:50:15,070

Siskel, of course, was like, I

didn't care about none of that shit.

:

01:50:15,090 --> 01:50:16,040

It was a great movie.

:

01:50:16,340 --> 01:50:16,980

I loved it.

:

01:50:16,990 --> 01:50:17,540

Thumbs up.

:

01:50:18,240 --> 01:50:20,780

And, you know, it is what it is.

:

01:50:20,830 --> 01:50:21,600

We all make mistakes

:

01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:21,730

Chris: in life.

:

01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:24,700

I also liked from Die

Hard, I liked Thornburg.

:

01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:25,800

The news guy.

:

01:50:25,889 --> 01:50:27,260

Jerome: Richard Thornburg.

:

01:50:28,510 --> 01:50:29,840

Chris: Who was in what was he in?

:

01:50:29,880 --> 01:50:30,820

Ghostbusters?

:

01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:31,830

Mm hmm.

:

01:50:31,990 --> 01:50:32,730

Jerome: He was in Ghostbusters, right?

:

01:50:32,730 --> 01:50:34,160

Yeah, EPA guy.

:

01:50:34,170 --> 01:50:34,190

Yeah.

:

01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:35,889

But he plays a great prick, doesn't he?

:

01:50:35,889 --> 01:50:36,480

He does.

:

01:50:36,520 --> 01:50:37,120

He does.

:

01:50:37,540 --> 01:50:38,480

Did you get that?

:

01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:40,860

Just for once, I'd like to

see him in a movie where he

:

01:50:40,860 --> 01:50:42,850

plays like a likable, fun guy.

:

01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:45,300

Like, he always plays a great asshole.

:

01:50:45,380 --> 01:50:45,870

Yeah.

:

01:50:46,344 --> 01:50:49,225

Yeah, what's funny about that too

is when Holly decks him at the end,

:

01:50:49,395 --> 01:50:51,165

you hear all the crew guys laughing.

:

01:50:51,985 --> 01:50:52,684

You hear them laughing.

:

01:50:52,835 --> 01:50:53,335

Yeah.

:

01:50:53,835 --> 01:50:55,594

Right before he says, did you get that?

:

01:50:55,695 --> 01:50:55,975

Yeah.

:

01:50:55,975 --> 01:50:56,295

Yeah.

:

01:50:56,455 --> 01:50:58,205

Like, oh, it's so, it's funny.

:

01:50:58,895 --> 01:51:00,094

it's a perfect film, man.

:

01:51:00,115 --> 01:51:02,475

I don't care what anyone says,

Die Hard is a perfect movie.

:

01:51:02,844 --> 01:51:07,705

And nowadays you can have up to

10 nominees for best picture.

:

01:51:08,565 --> 01:51:13,475

Up until:

:

01:51:14,770 --> 01:51:15,870

Here's a little bit of side trivia.

:

01:51:16,050 --> 01:51:18,580

The Dark Knight did not get

nominated for Best Picture.

:

01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:20,740

It didn't make the final five.

:

01:51:21,110 --> 01:51:23,639

There was only five nominees

for Best Picture up until then.

:

01:51:24,300 --> 01:51:27,490

There was such an outrage that the

Dark Knight did not get included

:

01:51:27,490 --> 01:51:31,510

for Best Picture, that they

changed the rules at the Oscars.

:

01:51:31,530 --> 01:51:33,059

So there could be more added, yeah.

:

01:51:33,059 --> 01:51:37,020

Up to 10 films could be nominated for

Best Picture, so that more inclusive

:

01:51:37,020 --> 01:51:38,749

films, more films that people have seen.

:

01:51:38,749 --> 01:51:40,059

Chris: So, I think that's too much.

:

01:51:40,059 --> 01:51:41,050

Well,

:

01:51:41,550 --> 01:51:42,820

Jerome: they don't always hit 10.

:

01:51:42,850 --> 01:51:44,030

You can get up to 10.

:

01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:44,280

Okay.

:

01:51:45,815 --> 01:51:46,865

Sometimes there's nine.

:

01:51:47,025 --> 01:51:47,995

It's not always ten.

:

01:51:48,175 --> 01:51:48,395

Yeah.

:

01:51:48,445 --> 01:51:50,085

You have to hit a certain amount of votes.

:

01:51:50,235 --> 01:51:50,594

Right.

:

01:51:50,675 --> 01:51:54,014

But, but what they didn't like was

that a film that just missed the cut

:

01:51:54,275 --> 01:51:57,145

at six, you know, was getting left out.

:

01:51:57,505 --> 01:51:58,985

So they changed the rules for that.

:

01:51:59,205 --> 01:52:02,344

If those rules were in place

in:

:

01:52:02,344 --> 01:52:03,295

nominated for Best Picture.

:

01:52:03,415 --> 01:52:03,775

Yeah.

:

01:52:04,315 --> 01:52:05,625

I'm going out on a limb, I'm saying that.

:

01:52:05,625 --> 01:52:06,815

That's your hot take for the day.

:

01:52:07,395 --> 01:52:12,385

is a Best Picture nominee in:

if the current Academy rules existed then.

:

01:52:12,425 --> 01:52:12,795

Right.

:

01:52:13,485 --> 01:52:15,655

But we all know who won

Best Picture in:

:

01:52:17,645 --> 01:52:18,165

Rain Man.

:

01:52:18,715 --> 01:52:19,475

Oh yeah.

:

01:52:19,625 --> 01:52:20,514

It's hard to beat Rain Man.

:

01:52:20,535 --> 01:52:21,805

It's not gonna win Best Picture.

:

01:52:21,815 --> 01:52:23,645

Diehard wouldn't win Best Picture.

:

01:52:23,645 --> 01:52:24,075

Right.

:

01:52:24,505 --> 01:52:26,525

But it would be nominated, right?

:

01:52:26,655 --> 01:52:27,415

Yeah.

:

01:52:27,505 --> 01:52:28,255

Chris: Was it nominated

:

01:52:28,255 --> 01:52:28,915

Jerome: for anything?

:

01:52:29,115 --> 01:52:31,365

If the, oh yeah, like,

well, let's look it up.

:

01:52:31,375 --> 01:52:31,885

Let's look it up.

:

01:52:32,255 --> 01:52:36,495

I know, I know we're running a little

long here, but I'm sure our listeners love

:

01:52:36,495 --> 01:52:38,005

it when we talk about this kind of shit.

:

01:52:38,485 --> 01:52:40,025

So yeah, so Die Hard was:

:

01:52:40,065 --> 01:52:45,915

Again, it's not going to win

Best Picture, but I can see it

:

01:52:46,264 --> 01:52:48,675

if today's academy rules existed.

:

01:52:49,475 --> 01:52:50,965

A movie like this would get nominated.

:

01:52:50,985 --> 01:52:55,655

I'm actually surprised it didn't

get nominated for best screenplay.

:

01:52:55,684 --> 01:52:56,755

I will tell you this.

:

01:52:58,505 --> 01:53:00,085

It was nominated for four Oscars.

:

01:53:01,235 --> 01:53:06,514

On the all time top 250 list on

IMDb, it currently ranks 118.

:

01:53:06,565 --> 01:53:10,545

118 out of 250 of all time.

:

01:53:10,555 --> 01:53:11,525

These are all time.

:

01:53:11,535 --> 01:53:11,965

Mm hmm.

:

01:53:13,415 --> 01:53:14,365

So that's pretty good.

:

01:53:14,695 --> 01:53:15,335

118?

:

01:53:16,125 --> 01:53:18,465

It was nominated, it

did not win any Oscars.

:

01:53:18,585 --> 01:53:18,855

Right, right, right.

:

01:53:18,855 --> 01:53:20,395

It was nominated for four.

:

01:53:20,565 --> 01:53:21,065

Yeah.

:

01:53:21,135 --> 01:53:21,934

Best sound?

:

01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:27,070

Best film editing, best sound effects

editing, and best visual effects.

:

01:53:27,389 --> 01:53:29,300

Again, this is prior to the CGI era.

:

01:53:29,540 --> 01:53:30,190

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:53:30,309 --> 01:53:33,480

So so real special effects

had to be used, right?

:

01:53:33,490 --> 01:53:33,700

Yeah.

:

01:53:33,710 --> 01:53:35,350

They actually had to blow shit up.

:

01:53:35,930 --> 01:53:39,940

With the exception of the green screen

of Hans Gruber falling, which, by

:

01:53:39,940 --> 01:53:44,490

the way, by today's standards You

can tell that's a blue screen, right?

:

01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:48,110

You can tell that he's not

really falling off a building.

:

01:53:48,820 --> 01:53:51,730

Today's special effects, that would

have looked a hell of a lot better.

:

01:53:52,190 --> 01:53:53,059

So yeah, I don't know.

:

01:53:53,150 --> 01:53:54,450

I it's classic, man.

:

01:53:54,460 --> 01:53:56,290

It's a classic and it's

a Christmas classic.

:

01:53:56,340 --> 01:53:57,730

I watch it every year at Christmas.

:

01:53:57,730 --> 01:53:58,840

Do you watch it every year at Christmas?

:

01:54:00,105 --> 01:54:04,764

Chris: I don't know if I'd watch it every

year, but just about, yeah, you know, I

:

01:54:04,764 --> 01:54:09,965

mean, and back when it was in the days

of cable, I think it was on all the time.

:

01:54:10,485 --> 01:54:11,055

You know what I mean?

:

01:54:11,205 --> 01:54:14,434

Jerome: So you want to hear

my tradition every year now?

:

01:54:14,465 --> 01:54:16,975

I have a tradition that I've

developed over the last few years.

:

01:54:17,385 --> 01:54:21,775

So I set up a table in the

living room and I wrap everything

:

01:54:22,434 --> 01:54:23,855

and I watch three movies.

:

01:54:24,305 --> 01:54:25,485

Every year is tradition.

:

01:54:25,985 --> 01:54:26,445

Are you ready?

:

01:54:26,535 --> 01:54:26,815

Yeah.

:

01:54:27,710 --> 01:54:33,719

Die Hard, Lethal Weapon 1, also

a Christmas movie, we'll argue

:

01:54:33,719 --> 01:54:34,590

about that some other time.

:

01:54:35,540 --> 01:54:36,420

Takes place at Christmas.

:

01:54:37,590 --> 01:54:38,309

And!

:

01:54:39,305 --> 01:54:39,995

Love Actually.

:

01:54:40,415 --> 01:54:45,495

That's the one that's mostly Christmas and

no action, but it's a fun Christmas movie.

:

01:54:45,745 --> 01:54:47,965

And those are the three movies

I watch every year while

:

01:54:47,965 --> 01:54:49,235

I wrap presents overnight.

:

01:54:49,665 --> 01:54:51,105

Any holiday movie traditions

:

01:54:51,105 --> 01:54:51,375

Chris: for you?

:

01:54:51,594 --> 01:54:53,455

No, we used to do that

when our kids were younger.

:

01:54:53,455 --> 01:54:58,395

Jesse and I would spend Christmas

Eve after the family get together.

:

01:54:58,395 --> 01:55:02,625

We'd get home late and then

be up until two in the morning

:

01:55:02,625 --> 01:55:03,844

wrapping gifts or whatever.

:

01:55:04,465 --> 01:55:05,235

Just stick under the tree.

:

01:55:05,410 --> 01:55:07,380

Yeah, so times are changing.

:

01:55:07,490 --> 01:55:09,690

Kids are growing up and

traditions are changing.

:

01:55:09,690 --> 01:55:12,410

So, yeah, no, but I love it.

:

01:55:12,610 --> 01:55:14,160

Jerome: So Merry Christmas everybody.

:

01:55:14,160 --> 01:55:15,389

This has been a great show.

:

01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:18,150

We hope, you know, by the time you listen

to this again, it's Christmas week.

:

01:55:18,610 --> 01:55:21,340

We hope you are safe, happy, and healthy.

:

01:55:21,805 --> 01:55:23,764

And man, it's another good year.

:

01:55:23,764 --> 01:55:25,465

We're going in at:

:

01:55:25,535 --> 01:55:25,785

Yep,

:

01:55:25,975 --> 01:55:28,875

Chris: and I would add, so we've

mentioned some of the movies

:

01:55:28,875 --> 01:55:31,365

we want to touch on in:

:

01:55:31,375 --> 01:55:32,545

Send us some ideas.

:

01:55:32,555 --> 01:55:35,945

What would you like to hear

us discuss on the show?

:

01:55:36,535 --> 01:55:40,315

You know, we're hoping to do more

than one a month in the new year.

:

01:55:40,344 --> 01:55:43,684

So we're actually doing pretty

good here at the end of:

:

01:55:44,195 --> 01:55:46,855

We're getting out multiple

episodes a month sometimes.

:

01:55:46,925 --> 01:55:47,684

And Yeah.

:

01:55:47,745 --> 01:55:49,135

Yeah, we're loving doing

:

01:55:49,135 --> 01:55:49,385

Jerome: this.

:

01:55:49,415 --> 01:55:53,434

And if you want to keep it thematic,

like I said, we're doing, we did a

:

01:55:53,455 --> 01:55:57,014

Christmas show, we did a Veterans

Day show, we did a Halloween show,

:

01:55:57,325 --> 01:55:58,815

we're doing a Valentine's show.

:

01:55:59,250 --> 01:56:04,510

If you want us to do something

for like, I don't know, St.

:

01:56:04,510 --> 01:56:06,050

Patrick's Day, St.

:

01:56:06,050 --> 01:56:06,780

Patrick's Day,

:

01:56:06,780 --> 01:56:08,250

Chris: 4th St.

:

01:56:08,250 --> 01:56:09,360

Patrick's Day, how about?

:

01:56:09,370 --> 01:56:10,030

Oh,

:

01:56:11,290 --> 01:56:11,450

Jerome: that's a good one.

:

01:56:11,460 --> 01:56:13,760

Chris: Yeah, think of the holidays.

:

01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:16,380

Think of, you know,

what are some themes we

:

01:56:16,380 --> 01:56:16,880

Jerome: should adopt this year?

:

01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:18,719

So if you want us to do, send it to us.

:

01:56:18,750 --> 01:56:19,610

We'd love to hear it.

:

01:56:20,950 --> 01:56:22,450

And, and you tell me.

:

01:56:22,460 --> 01:56:24,790

This is the question

I'm posing to listeners.

:

01:56:26,020 --> 01:56:27,320

Have I proven?

:

01:56:28,045 --> 01:56:29,725

That Die Hard is a Christmas movie.

:

01:56:29,835 --> 01:56:34,795

And if not, I want your reasons why

it is not, and they better not be

:

01:56:34,795 --> 01:56:37,005

the three that I mentioned, because

I debunked all three of those.

:

01:56:37,005 --> 01:56:38,885

So give me something else.

:

01:56:39,145 --> 01:56:41,215

Why, why Die Hard's not a Christmas movie.

:

01:56:41,465 --> 01:56:45,165

Because I have a neighbor, here's one

shout out I will give, Siri Mitchell,

:

01:56:45,165 --> 01:56:50,155

who lives a few houses down from me, is

adamant Die Hard is not a Christmas movie.

:

01:56:50,405 --> 01:56:55,825

I'm giving her a shout out on my

platform to let her know, officially,

:

01:56:56,105 --> 01:56:58,335

she is wrong, and I've proved her wrong.

:

01:56:58,385 --> 01:57:01,025

Chris: Has she given you any

reasons that you didn't discuss?

:

01:57:02,240 --> 01:57:03,530

Jerome: Hatred and anger, mostly?

:

01:57:03,530 --> 01:57:06,210

I don't know.

:

01:57:06,210 --> 01:57:07,170

Just kidding, Siri, I love you.

:

01:57:07,490 --> 01:57:10,820

Alright, so anything else

before we land this plane?

:

01:57:11,050 --> 01:57:11,389

No.

:

01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:15,260

Chris: I say good tidings to

all, and to all a good night.

:

01:57:15,950 --> 01:57:16,350

Jerome: Wow.

:

01:57:17,420 --> 01:57:17,870

Wow.

:

01:57:17,930 --> 01:57:21,110

That was, that was my brother trying

to be I don't even know what the

:

01:57:21,110 --> 01:57:22,200

fuck you were trying to do there.

:

01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:22,350

That

:

01:57:22,350 --> 01:57:22,969

Chris: was weird.

:

01:57:23,070 --> 01:57:24,860

And it was some kind

of Christmas send off.

:

01:57:25,885 --> 01:57:28,175

You know, people are going to

listen to this any time of the

:

01:57:28,175 --> 01:57:30,995

year when they go back and listen

to some of these episodes, so,

:

01:57:31,455 --> 01:57:31,815

Jerome: yeah.

:

01:57:32,075 --> 01:57:32,535

That's true.

:

01:57:32,825 --> 01:57:33,105

That's true.

:

01:57:33,465 --> 01:57:34,425

So alright.

:

01:57:34,465 --> 01:57:35,425

Have fun at the movies.

:

01:57:35,425 --> 01:57:36,615

Crack one open for us.

:

01:57:36,844 --> 01:57:40,465

Chris: And like I always like

to say uh, go support your local

:

01:57:40,475 --> 01:57:42,775

cinema and uh, go watch some movies.

:

01:57:43,585 --> 01:57:43,915

Yes.

:

01:57:45,715 --> 01:57:48,795

Well, that:

:

01:57:49,389 --> 01:57:54,180

I really want to thank you for listening

for making it a great year for us.

:

01:57:54,940 --> 01:58:00,660

You can always reach out to us at

cheers@silverscreenhappyhour.com You can

:

01:58:00,660 --> 01:58:05,440

also find us on our socials and if you'd

like to send us a voice memo jump on over

:

01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:10,100

at Instagram and you can send us a voice

message and you might end up on our show.

:

01:58:10,889 --> 01:58:14,120

So my brother and I want to wish

you a very Merry Christmas and

:

01:58:14,139 --> 01:58:17,120

a very safe and Happy New Year.

:

01:58:17,850 --> 01:58:20,600

So if you're going to keep drinking

and watching, make sure you do it

:

01:58:20,600 --> 01:58:22,700

right and get a designated driver.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jerome Wiegand

Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand