Episode 5

Anatomy Of A Past: Anatomy Of A Fall(2023) and Past Lives(2023)

Oscars Deep Dive: 'Past Lives' and 'Anatomy of a Fall': A Detailed Analysis

Join Chris Wiegand and his brother Jerome as they deeply analyze the Oscar-nominated foreign films 'Past Lives' and 'Anatomy of a Fall'. They explore storytelling techniques, analyze key scenes, and discuss themes in an engaging conversation. Discover their personal interpretations of ambiguous endings and understand the connections between the young actors. Tune in to appreciate why these films are contenders for the Oscars.

00:02 Introduction and Initial Impressions

00:53 The Silver Screen Happy Hour Begins

01:12 Discussing the Oscar Nominated Movies

01:34 The Anatomy of a Past: A Deep Dive

01:59 Podcast Episode Details and Corrections

02:34 What's in the Glass? Drinks of the Episode

04:12 The Struggles of Last Minute Preparations

07:35 The Start of Movie Analysis: Anatomy of a Fall

09:45 The Courtroom Drama Unfolds

12:48 The Verdict and Final Thoughts

43:58 Post-Game Analysis and Reflections

44:41 Transitioning to 'Past Lives' Discussion

45:11 Deep Dive into 'Past Lives'

46:07 Box Office Performance and Comparisons

47:30 Plot Summary and Logline Critique

48:56 Dissecting the Story Structure

53:39 Reflecting on the Characters and Themes

01:03:38 Final Thoughts and Conclusions

The Wiegand brothers love movies, and they are fascinated by human nature and the art of great storytelling. Have you ever wondered how great stories connect? Listen to the Silver Screen Happy Hour - a podcast for movie lovers!

Website: Silver Screen Happy Hour

Follow Silver Screen Happy Hour on Instagram here:

https://www.instagram.com/silverscreenhappyhour/

Transcript
Jerome:

And by the way, can I just stop for a moment and say, the

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Oscar goes to The fucking dog!

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This dog,

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Chris: I think they really drugged the dog

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Jerome: This is not, no, no,

no, no, this is not CGI, and

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you know they can't harm a dog.

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Chris: Ah, in America.

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Jerome: That, that is fucking acting.

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Chris: Ah, I don't know man,

the dog's tounge was out.

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Jerome: The dog's tongue is hanging out.

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His eyes are rolling back in his head.

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I'm like, this fucking dog is

the Daniel Day Lewis of canines.

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Holy shit, how did this dog

not get nominated for an Oscar?

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I'm like, this is fucking amazing!

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Chris: They had some puppy

fentanyl or something, man.

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They drugged his ass.

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Jerome: I don't think so!

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Chris: I don't know.

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This is the

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Silver Screen Happy Hour.

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I'm Chris Wiegand, along

with my brother, Jerome.

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Jerome: Present and accounted for.

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Chris: So, what movies

are we tackling this week?

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First of all, what's the

title of this episode?

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Jerome: So I don't, I don't know.

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What, when did you decide?

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Chris: Anatomy of a Past.

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Jerome: Dun, dun, dun.

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Chris: So this is this is going

to be really one in a series

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of Oscar nominated shows.

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Jerome: This is our first Oscar show.

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Technically for the books, this

is:

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what season, season 4 by now.

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Season 4.

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20, 2024 episode 3, technically

the March episode, but it's

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our first of our Oscar series.

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So we picked two Best Picture

nominees Anatomy of a Fall.

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Which is a French film.

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Well French and English, but

the country of origin is France.

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And Past Lives, which also mixes

in some South Korean with English,

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but it's origin is South Korea.

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It's a South Korean film with an

entirely international cast and crew.

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Which is kind of cool.

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I think this is the first time we battled

primarily foreign films on this, isn't it?

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Chris: Yeah, and I was

going to correct you.

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This is actually going to be

in, like, in our podcast feed.

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It'll be the fourth episode

of the, of this season.

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Simply because we had the Oscar

nominations update and, you know, Legally

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Liar was our first one of the season.

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Jerome: Right, but we also have

one being released in February.

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Chris: And the not So

Happy Hour Lions fans.

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Right, but I Those are

little, those are little,

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Short ones.

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Jerome: Yeah, I consider

those like commercials.

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They're not full episodes.

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Yeah, bonus episodes.

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They're not full episodes.

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But anyway Alright, so

what are you drinking?

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Chris: So, this is a Korean drink,

similar to what I had when we did

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Everything Everywhere All at Once.

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Except I, the one I had then is, it's

similar to a sake um, but it's, it's

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more of a, I think sake's a higher ABV.

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This is 13%.

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How do I pronounce this?

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I always struggle.

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Jinro.

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Jinro.

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Okay.

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And really, I, I translated the,

this Korean on the bottle, and

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it means dew on the grapefruit.

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Nice.

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So, and I noticed in In past lives there's

a scene where they were drinking beverages

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like this getting drunk and doing shots.

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And so I got a little shot glass, kind of

a big shot glass, cause, you know, this

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isn't exactly as strong as a, you know,

a hard liquor, but I'm going to be, I'm

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going to be going Korean for this episode.

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And last time for, for for everything

everywhere all at once, that one

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was more of a unflavored drink.

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So I went with a grapefruit this time

because I did not like that other stuff.

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So let's see how this goes.

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Jerome: I love that sound.

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Yeah.

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I will try not to have my orgasmic

moans while you pour up in the future.

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I didn't realize we

were getting complaints.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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From the, from the, from the local

church groups that listen to our show.

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Chris: Well, it was mainly from the

editor having to listen to that.

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I needed therapy afterwards.

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Jerome: Welcome to my life.

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Chris: No, this is pretty good.

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I could drink a bottle of this.

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Jerome: All right, I on the other hand

completely dropped the ball on this.

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So, I remember telling you on our last

show, or our last commercial, I think it

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was when we did the Lions update, is that

I wanted to get something from BevMo,

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which is a kind of a liquor superstore.

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They have these 12 pack, 6 pack,

20 pack bottles of beer that

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are like one from each country.

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Right, right, right.

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And I thought it'd be super cool for this.

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Well They don't have them anymore.

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They don't make them anymore.

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I know, I was super pissed off.

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I went today, right?

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Because, nothing like procrastinating.

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Chris: I went to Total Wine today.

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Jerome: Which, by the way, my

shirt says, Don't rush me, I'm

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waiting for the last minute.

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That's what my t shirt says.

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So, that is indicative of

what happened to me today.

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I was rushing to go pick up the

girls from school, and I was like,

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I'm gonna stop in at Bedmo real

quick, and they don't have it.

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So I was like, well, show me

your international beer section.

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Maybe I'll find something

from Korea, South Korea.

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Or something from France.

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Nothing.

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They had like half an

aisle of just German beers.

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Chris: You could've went

with like a french wine.

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But you're not a wine

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guy.

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I know.

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Jerome: Yeah, I did that

Chianti one time for Lambs.

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Chris: She was German.

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You could've went with a German beer.

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Jerome: I was going to because she

is German, the actress in the film.

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So I was going to, but then I I was like,

I kind of want to save that for if we ever

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do get around to doing Zone of Interest,

which is also up for this picture.

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Because that's about, like,

Nazis and shit, so I thought

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Chris: So, all, all, all this to say

is you got your lightsabers, right?

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Jerome: I got my lightsabers,

but I've also, I have, I looked

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in the cupboard and I'm like,

tell me I got some booze in here.

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And I did have a bottle of

this really cheap ass bourbon.

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This cheap ass I'm sorry, this

will be offensive to the maker.

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It's not cheap, it's it's affordable.

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I have a bottle of affordable

Old Forrester Kentucky

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straight bourbon whiskey.

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And as you can see,

it's, it's it's not new.

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This is something I found in my cupboard.

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And I think it works and

I'll tell you why it works.

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This is, again, I don't

want to use the word cheap.

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That's not, we'll call this low budget.

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Chris: Is it, is it

larceny, old low budget?

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Jerome: Oh.

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In taste or in dollar amount?

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It's probably close in dollar amount.

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Larceny, I think, is a, yeah, I think

they're about, they're about the same.

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But, okay, so if we call this

low budget, think about the

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films we're doing today, right?

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Yeah, we're pretty low budget.

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One of them was six million, the other

one cost twelve million, in an era

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where normally films cost over a hundred

million dollars to make nowadays, easily.

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Anatomy of a Fall cost six million dollars

to make, and Past Lives cost twelve.

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So

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Chris: Why did Past

Lives cost so much more?

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What did they do in that movie?

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I'm trying to remember.

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Jerome: I don't know.

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You would think that one

would be even cheaper.

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Yeah.

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But I don't know.

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I just Googled it and it said twelve.

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Interesting.

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But Those are still, by today's

standards, by far, by today's

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standards, that's considered low budget.

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Yeah.

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So I brought out a low

budget whiskey to go with it.

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Alright, here's my turn.

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Here's my turn.

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Are you ready?

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Alright.

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My low budget, cost

conscious Old Forester.

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Chris: Happy hour on the rocks.

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Jerome: Did you get that?

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Yeah.

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It sounded light.

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Chris: No, no, it was a, I could see it.

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So it was a healthy pour.

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We said something before

we started recording.

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We kind of tipped our hand to each other.

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One of us liked one of the movies

more than the other and vice versa.

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You liked the other one.

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So, which one are we starting with?

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Jerome: Well, let's do Anatomy of a Fall.

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Okay.

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I'll go through some specs real quick.

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Obviously 2023.

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Both these films were released in 2023.

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They're both up for the Oscars this year.

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Directed by Justine Triet.

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It was written by Triet and Arthur Harari.

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This is Triett's fourth feature

film in the last ten years.

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After about five years of short films.

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It's her second with Harari

as a writing partner.

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And Harari's also an actor, and

he appeared in Triett's last

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three films, including this one.

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So it stars, I wanna get this

right, cause it's German, so I

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wanna be, I wanna be right on this.

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Sandra Huller.

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Sandra Huller, she plays Sandra.

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I'm gonna say the character's name

in English, Sandra, so I don't

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have to say Sandra the whole time.

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Yeah, right.

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Sandra Huller plays Sandra, and

uh, Swann Arlaud, he plays Vincent,

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her lawyer and best friend.

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So it was released in August August

23rd of last year, primarily in France

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at first, before French, branching out.

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It is a French film, has

English in it as well.

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Budget was about, like I said, six, I

think it's 6.7 million in US dollars.

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It's a lot less than that in Euros.

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At the box office, it

made 25 million worldwide.

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And that's in U.

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S.

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dollars.

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Less than five of that?

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5 million of that was domestic, so

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Chris: Wait, wait,

domestic for in America?

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Meaning America.

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So less than 5 million to make in America.

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I was gonna say, not domestic in France.

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Jerome: No, no, no.

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So it made the bulk of its money

around 21 million overseas.

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Yeah.

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It beat out, it was good

for 110th place Oh my god.

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on the list of films, but oddly

enough it still beat out Past Lives,

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which finished at 114th place.

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So they were pretty close together.

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I have another funny fact, but we'll

do it at the end of the Past Lives one.

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Okay, those are the specs, now log me!

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Chris: Alright, that's not a

very big log line, so here we go.

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A woman is suspected of her husband's

murder, and their blind son faces a

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moral dilemma as the main witness.

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Jerome: Pretty clean.

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Pretty clean.

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Right?

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Pretty clean.

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Yeah.

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Doesn't leave a lot of confusion.

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It's pretty straight to the point.

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If you were, I don't know, at your on your

Amazon page and you're thumbing through

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you come across a log line like that,

might be something you'd be interested in.

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If you're flipping through the

channels on your streaming and you

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come across a log line like that,

maybe something you stop for, right?

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It's not convoluted, not confusing.

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I say that because, wait

until, I'm assuming the next

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one is a pile of horseshit.

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But, but don't worry, we're going

to clean that one up, because I

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already cleaned it up for you.

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But anyway, alright.

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So, it's what happens when these

people that work for like IMDb,

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like, don't really know what they

should put as the logline, so they

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try to put everything in there.

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Chris: And both of these movies,

to me, felt very As far as the

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American market goes, Indie.

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Very Indie.

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Right.

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Very much.

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So, I don't know how big these studios

that they are working with overseas

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are, but to me they just felt Like an

American indie film, you know, minus

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the foreign language and subtitles.

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Jerome: Sure, but here's what

I like about both of these.

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And by the way, both of these are up

for Best Picture and Best Screenplay.

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Now that's it for Past Lives.

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They only got those two nominations.

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I think Anatomy of Fall was

nominated for five total, including

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Best Actress on Sandra Huller.

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But both got nominated for screenplay.

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Here's the interesting thing in America.

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We always complain.

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Mm hmm.

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There's no originality in Hollywood

anymore Everything's a reboot or

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a remake or a franchise sequel

There's no original films, man.

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If you want to watch really good original

films, just look overseas I think both

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of these films are really really good And

there's no almost virtually no special

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effects just really good acting, really

good writing, really good directing.

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And they're neither one of

these were based on a book.

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These are original screenplays.

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So I, I, I'm impressed

with both of these films.

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And it makes me think, you know, if

I'm getting sick of, Another Marvel

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movie, or another Star Wars movie,

or a Roadhouse has been remade.

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Good God.

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If, if I, if I get to a point where

I'm sick of it, I'm just sick of it,

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and I know I never will be, but if

I ever get to that point, man, just

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start watching films from fucking

France, man, and shit like that.

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It's, it's, these are

original screenplays, and

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they're stories that work.

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So, I'm right on that, right?

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They're both original?

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Normally in my research I come

across if it was based on a book,

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I'm gonna be in trouble now.

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Now I'm starting to think Anatomy

of a Fall was based on a book.

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Now I got people screaming at me.

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Chris: So yeah Past Lives is nominated

for Best Original Screenplay.

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Jerome: And so is

Anatomy of a Fall, right?

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Chris: I didn't look at that one yet.

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I'm in IMDB.

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Jerome: Oh, okay.

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So, here we go.

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Well, it's good that you did Past Lives

because I went into Anatomy of a Fall.

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Yeah, best original screenplay,

so they're both originals.

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Yeah, so, you know, both

original screenplays.

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Okay, so, alright, here

we go, are you ready?

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I'm ready.

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We have, we have The beats.

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The beats.

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So, the reason I like, before I get

into the beats, the reason I like

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this one more than the other one is

there's more deep ambiguity at the

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end and there's symbolism throughout.

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I think past lives was really well made,

but I'm going to tell you why I liked

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this one a little, just a little bit more.

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It's more of a thinker.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So opening image.

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And that's, and that's why I

wanted to stop and say that first.

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Chris: And before you, before you

get into it, I think I, you know,

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I'm looking at the IMDb trailer

right now and I'm remembering

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the movie as I'm looking at this.

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You're right.

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I, I liked, I liked the, I mean

the acting and the, the dialogue.

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It was a good, it was a good movie.

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I didn't like the ending.

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So we, we'll get there.

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So let, go, go ahead with the beats.

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Jerome: Okay.

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Okay.

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Why you didn't like the ending, I'm

suspecting, is why I loved it, so

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this'll be good, this'll be good.

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Okay.

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Opening image.

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Dog is preparing for a bath.

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Now, there's gonna be a dog themed

symbolism throughout this film.

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Particularly in the

opening and closing images.

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And also in a moment later, we're gonna

get to where the father, a flashback of

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the father, is in the car with the son.

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And he tells a story about having

to say goodbye to your dog.

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So this, this dog thing is

going to be a symbol throughout.

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Um, Set up.

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Establish that the son, Daniel, is blind.

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Mother is a writer.

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Father is could be argued to be

inconsiderate to say the least.

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That's how the film opens.

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Um, And apparently rapper 50

Cent is still popular in France.

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Anyone that's gonna play an

instrumental of his song P.

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I.

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M.

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P.

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On a loop, I might add.

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Right.

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At full blast volume, is either

inconsiderate or a diehard 50 Cent fan.

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So okay, theme stated at 2 minutes

and 25 seconds in, while during her

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interview, the interviewee, Zoe, says

to protagonist Sandra, For you to start

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inventing, you need something real first.

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This will be a running theme

throughout the film, as Sandra

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will be bombarded with questions,

allegations, accusations, and challenges.

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And much of the time, we As the audience,

and her, seemingly aren't sure when

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she's inventing or when she's being real.

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Mm

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hmm.

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Chris: And did, did you say,

I can't remember, did you say

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why she was being interviewed?

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Jerome: No, we haven't gotten there yet.

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Okay.

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Oh, you mean the interview

at the beginning?

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Chris: Yeah, the interview at the

beginning of the movie we, we discover

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right, right away she's an author.

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Jerome: Yeah, you know,

I said she's a writer.

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She's a writer.

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And she's interviewing like a writing

student that wanted to meet her.

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And so she's trying to do an interview.

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That's how the movie starts.

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The blind son Daniel's

upstairs giving the dog a bath.

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And she's trying to do this

interview and her husband is

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upstairs working on the house.

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In a very much, I want to let

you know that I'm here way.

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He's blasting his music and he's got

power tools going and like she's trying

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to do an interview and he's not being very

considerate and we'll find out later why.

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Okay, so inciting incident slash catalyst.

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Now, this is seven minutes

in, which is early, right?

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Here's the interesting part about this.

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We often talk about, and

Past Lives does it too.

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Where we stopped, I want to

say a couple of years ago, you

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and I stopped clock watching.

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Oh, the theme didn't come

at the five minute mark.

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And oh, this is supposed to

be at the 20 minute mark.

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It's more or less that you hit the beats.

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And you hit them in order.

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They don't have to be at a certain

time, we're not clock watching anymore.

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It's just as long as, because we

found, I think, doing our podcast,

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we found that movies that deviate

from when these beats hit still work.

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So it stopped being about when

they hit as long as they're

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hit and they're hit in order.

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Right, right.

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Right?

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So so seven minutes early

for this inciting incident.

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Daniel and the dog

Snoop, by the way, Snoop.

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Dog.

397

:

The dog's name is Snoop.

398

:

Find that dad is dead

from a dreadful fall.

399

:

This is early for an inciting incident.

400

:

Again, we talk about

rules tools, not rules.

401

:

But it happening this early,

I think, was strategic.

402

:

This way, we can do opening

credits while they do the autopsy.

403

:

So we're not wasting

dead time showing this.

404

:

By the way, the wound on the

dad's head during the autopsy?

405

:

Like, the second you see that,

you're like, No way that's a fall.

406

:

No fucking way.

407

:

No fucking way!

408

:

Right?

409

:

So again, and these are seeds that Triett

is planting in the audience's head.

410

:

So anyway, they do the opening credits

over the backdrop of the autopsy.

411

:

Generally I would say you want

more character development

412

:

before you hit your catalyst.

413

:

But here's why I think it's very strategic

to do it at the seven minute mark.

414

:

We haven't gotten a chance yet

to really know these characters.

415

:

Mm hm.

416

:

And I think that's done by design.

417

:

Because we don't really want

to know a lot about Sandra yet.

418

:

This creates Yeah, it's a mystery.

419

:

It creates the, do I trust this woman?

420

:

Right, right.

421

:

Was this really an accident?

422

:

You know, we don't know.

423

:

We have no fucking clue.

424

:

Right?

425

:

Like if I don't know.

426

:

If we're watching, shit

just think of a movie.

427

:

Titanic, let's just take Titanic, right?

428

:

Yeah.

429

:

There's a lot about Leo that we know.

430

:

In the first few scenes of seeing him.

431

:

Right, right.

432

:

Right?

433

:

The underdog.

434

:

He's got no money.

435

:

He's poor.

436

:

He's crafty and clever.

437

:

He, he, he cheats at cards,

or at least is lucky at cards.

438

:

And gets his self onto the

ship and blah blah blah.

439

:

So if anything happens to Leo at

that point, we're on his side.

440

:

Mhmm.

441

:

Right?

442

:

But if the film opened and we saw

Leo in half of a scene and then

443

:

something shitty happens, we're gonna

be like Was it Leo that did that?

444

:

You know what I mean?

445

:

Like, we won't know.

446

:

So that's, that's the strategy

of, of moving it up early.

447

:

And, What other movie did

we say kind of did that?

448

:

Silence of the Lambs we talked about,

where she meets Lecter in the first

449

:

like, seven, eight minutes of the movie.

450

:

Like, we haven't gotten

a chance to know her yet.

451

:

You know, her development doesn't come

until after that meeting with Lecter.

452

:

Okay.

453

:

Let's see.

454

:

Okay, the debate begins.

455

:

Vincent lays out his thoughts.

456

:

By the way, I love this scene.

457

:

Vincent lays out his thoughts that

she will be indicted for murder.

458

:

Again, I don't know if I

went into too much detail.

459

:

The son and the dog are

the ones that find the dad.

460

:

He has fallen, he's cracked his

head open, there's blood all

461

:

over the snow, and it looks bad.

462

:

And inspectors come, there's some,

there's some time in Act 1 that I kind

463

:

of skipped over because it isn't really

a beat, it's just Act 1 development.

464

:

Inspectors come and they start running

some tests, you know, about like, well,

465

:

if you were standing over here, you said

you heard them arguing over there, you

466

:

know, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

467

:

And they're doing all this

stuff, so there's a lot of like,

468

:

What happened set up, right?

469

:

A lot of testing, inspectors

are just trying to figure

470

:

out what the hell happened.

471

:

It doesn't look good for Sandra.

472

:

So we get to this scene of debate

begins where Vincent, her lawyer

473

:

and friend kind of lays it out.

474

:

They're going to indict you for murder.

475

:

That's what he's thinking.

476

:

And they need a defense.

477

:

At the 26 minute mark, Sandra

says, almost defiantly, wait, as

478

:

he's talking, she stops him and

he goes, wait, I didn't kill him.

479

:

Vincent looks at her and

says, that's not the point.

480

:

Really.

481

:

I get it.

482

:

Right.

483

:

You know and then he, and then

he goes in on this, you know,

484

:

about how they'll need a defense.

485

:

This is again playing into her theme.

486

:

Is she inventing this

part or is this part real?

487

:

Even if she's telling the truth

we don't believe, like he, she

488

:

even says like, I think he fell.

489

:

I think he fell is what she says.

490

:

And he says, nobody's

going to believe that.

491

:

And then he says, I don't believe that.

492

:

You know what I mean?

493

:

Like, this is her friend and her lawyer.

494

:

Right, right.

495

:

And he immediately follows that up

with, that's why we need a defense.

496

:

So right off the bat, they're saying,

26 minutes into the film, whether

497

:

you're innocent or guilty is irrelevant.

498

:

Right, right.

499

:

We have to make up a defense.

500

:

Chris: And something I didn't

consider until I was Y you know,

501

:

into the court scenes, really.

502

:

This isn't America.

503

:

You're not innocent until proven guilty.

504

:

You're basically guilty and

have to prove your innocence.

505

:

Jerome: Which, again, Agreed?

506

:

I don't know the court systems overseas.

507

:

I thought the way they do it in France

was kind of fucking balls out crazy.

508

:

Where anyone could just

stand up, and they're heard!

509

:

Like, they could just stand up

and say, I think I like pizza.

510

:

And then everybody will turn and

be like, How do you like pizza?

511

:

Like, they'll start asking

that person questions.

512

:

Like, anybody can stand up and say

something, and the counselors are

513

:

allowed to start asking them questions.

514

:

Yeah.

515

:

Like, it's crazy.

516

:

Like, there's no order.

517

:

It's like, anybody can just

say whatever they want.

518

:

Somebody will be in the middle of

a testimony, and Sandra, who's the

519

:

defendant, will just stand up and

be like, Nope, that's not true.

520

:

And nobody says, Objection!

521

:

Chris: If this movie was made in America,

it wouldn't have been a movie, because

522

:

there would have been no court scene,

there's no, there, it would have been, I

523

:

mean all you gotta do is prove reasonable

doubt, as far as her guilt goes.

524

:

Jerome: It would have been the most boring

version of an OJ trial you've ever seen.

525

:

Right?

526

:

Like I mean, this one had drama because

whenever they wanted, somebody would stand

527

:

up and be like, I disagree with that.

528

:

And then they would all turn and

be like, tell us why, you know,

529

:

like, it was just a madhouse.

530

:

It was just like, I kind of liked it.

531

:

Like I was like, I wish courts

were like that in America.

532

:

It was interesting.

533

:

How often does people get on the stand

and they say something and you know the

534

:

defendant's like, They're fucking lying.

535

:

They're lying.

536

:

They're lying.

537

:

Imagine in America if you could

just get up and be like, He's lying!

538

:

But anyway, Alright, so to break

into two, Sandra is indicted.

539

:

And at the 38 minute mark, It

propels us into Act 2, which is

540

:

the mirror flip version of Act 1.

541

:

Where her life was seemingly normal,

now it's absolutely abnormal.

542

:

Her life is turned upside down.

543

:

She's now officially on trial for murder.

544

:

Fun and Games, that's how we start Act

2, opens with some great trailer images

545

:

as we see the delivery of the premise.

546

:

Daniel is sheltered by Marge.

547

:

They are testing the drop of the body

from the balcony, which is a, kind of a

548

:

hard scene, where they drop that dummy.

549

:

And the way it cracks its head

on the edge of that, that Shed

550

:

or something that's below.

551

:

I know you feel it and it's just a dummy.

552

:

And you're like, wow.

553

:

Cause you were imagining if that was him.

554

:

We're like, that's how

they're saying it happened.

555

:

Fucking ouch, dude.

556

:

Chris: Well, it really explains

his head in the morgue.

557

:

Jerome: Yeah, when you see that

drop from the dummy, you're like,

558

:

That's why his head looked like that.

559

:

Like, holy shit, it looked like Kennedy.

560

:

Anyways.

561

:

Alright, maybe not that bad.

562

:

Alright, dial it back.

563

:

Too soon.

564

:

It's only been, you know, 50 years.

565

:

Too soon.

566

:

Anyway, 60 years now.

567

:

Jesus.

568

:

Okay.

569

:

Uh, Where are we at here?

570

:

I lost my spot.

571

:

Okay, Vincent's testing

Sandra on her testimony.

572

:

Sandra is outed as bisexual

during cross examination of Zoe.

573

:

The blood splatter experts, spar back

and forth about whose story is more

574

:

believable, which is another great moment.

575

:

And Daniel Triets to imagine

what it would look like.

576

:

This is the cool part.

577

:

Daniel's blind.

578

:

So he, they show him several

times sitting in the crowd.

579

:

And as people are telling their

versions, he's imagining in his

580

:

head what it would look like.

581

:

Right.

582

:

And they show a shot of her hitting

the dad with a stick or something.

583

:

And they show another shot where

he's sort of on the edge of

584

:

the balcony and she pushes him.

585

:

Right, right.

586

:

And then they show another shot of him

just falling, like losing his balance.

587

:

Like, he's imagining all of these

scenarios in his head because he's blind.

588

:

Right, right.

589

:

So, you know, as people are

talking in court, he's visualizing

590

:

what they're saying in his head.

591

:

Chris: What a traumatic

experience for a child.

592

:

Oh my god.

593

:

I mean, how old was he?

594

:

Jerome: I don't know.

595

:

Chris: Do you remember how old was he?

596

:

Jerome: He, he couldn't have

been more than 10 or 11, right?

597

:

Maybe 12 tops, maybe?

598

:

Chris: Maybe.

599

:

Maybe between 10 and 12.

600

:

Jerome: Yeah, yeah, so he's a kid, man.

601

:

And by the way, I wrote this down,

the concept and the word testing

602

:

was peppered throughout the entire

Fun and games part, which is act

603

:

two everybody's testing, right?

604

:

There's a lot of like,

we're going to try this.

605

:

We got to try that to

try to get to the truth.

606

:

Midpoint one hour, 14 minutes in after

the idea that Samuel, who is the dad, by

607

:

the way, who died may have killed himself.

608

:

Is established in court Sandra gets has

her, you know, let's get real conversation

609

:

at, by the campfire with her lawyer

and friend Vincent, where she flat out

610

:

suggests that he doesn't believe her.

611

:

This is a perfect example of a

false victory and immediately

612

:

met with bad guys closing in.

613

:

It's a false victory because

she gets that into court.

614

:

Mm hmm.

615

:

Pretty convincingly.

616

:

This is big on a murder trial, right?

617

:

So it seems like it's a victory.

618

:

They got everyone saying, Oh my god,

you know, it's yes, he must have killed

619

:

himself or he could have killed himself.

620

:

But then immediately after that, the very

next scene, she's, they're outside having

621

:

a cigarette by the campfire at night.

622

:

And you could tell Vincent is suspicious.

623

:

He's almost not believing it

and she calls him out on it.

624

:

You don't believe me.

625

:

Do you?

626

:

You know, let's let's be frank

If we're talking tangible and

627

:

spiritual goals, this is another one.

628

:

The tangible goal for

her is to be free, right?

629

:

This is a big step towards that so

she doesn't achieve tangible goal But

630

:

it's a big step towards that by you

know Like you said reasonable doubt if

631

:

you're in an American court and you can

create that there was a possibility it

632

:

wasn't you You're not guilty, right?

633

:

Right?

634

:

Because the prosecutor has

to prove it was you, right?

635

:

Right?

636

:

So this is a huge step for her

introducing the concept that he

637

:

could have killed himself, or

that he probably did kill himself.

638

:

Bad Guys Closing In, a damning

recording is played in court.

639

:

Probably the best scene of

the whole movie, actually.

640

:

Because it reminded me of

a lot of a marriage story.

641

:

Did you see that one with Scarlett

Johansson and Adam Driver.

642

:

And there's a scene in there that they

played at the Oscars when both were

643

:

up for Best Actor and Best Actress.

644

:

It's this real, just hard

argument between two people.

645

:

Not unlike a Johnny Depp

Amber Heard moment, right?

646

:

That we heard in that court.

647

:

Where they're just going at it

saying just the meanest things.

648

:

Things they could say to each other.

649

:

Right.

650

:

And just hard realities coming out.

651

:

And the, and the, the judge

tells the son, I don't think

652

:

you should be in here for that.

653

:

And the son's like, no, no, no.

654

:

I have to hear this.

655

:

I don't want to, but I have to.

656

:

Right, right.

657

:

Like, I gotta be there for it.

658

:

I've already heard everything.

659

:

Chris: Well, and because he needs

to know for himself what happened.

660

:

Jerome: Yeah, absolutely.

661

:

And that's gonna be huge later.

662

:

So, so they play this real

damning recording and it doesn't

663

:

look good for Sandra after this.

664

:

It really looks like she killed him

after this because it's just bad.

665

:

It's a bad and it's physical, right?

666

:

They start hitting each other.

667

:

So it doesn't paint a very good picture.

668

:

Chris: The way she explained

it, he was hitting himself.

669

:

But you could hear the thuds,

and it sounded like they were

670

:

fighting, like physically fighting.

671

:

Jerome: Yes, absolutely.

672

:

Chris: There was breaking glass,

and so it sounded horrible.

673

:

Jerome: Yeah, so a few other hits come

right after that there's another expert

674

:

on the stand that contradicts her story.

675

:

Sandra's called out by the

prosecuting attorney again.

676

:

By the way, I love the

prosecuting attorney.

677

:

That guy had zero fucks left to give.

678

:

That dude, whenever anybody and

he's gonna do it again in a minute.

679

:

And when we get to the five point

finale, he rears his ugly head again.

680

:

But anytime something that's seemingly

good happens, he shits all over it.

681

:

He's a great prosecuting attorney, and

he scoffs and like pathetically laughs

682

:

at people's testimonies like, like,

ah, that can't be believed, you know?

683

:

Um, uh, okay.

684

:

And they announced that

Daniel's going to testify.

685

:

That's a big one too, right?

686

:

A blind eyewitness is going to

testify, that ought to be good.

687

:

So all of that is bad guys closing in.

688

:

Now all is lost, and this is a big one.

689

:

Once they decide, after the

recording, and that Daniel's

690

:

going to testify, they go home.

691

:

And Daniel tells Marge, I do

not want my mom at the house.

692

:

That's a blow for Sandra.

693

:

That's like, holy shit, my

own son doesn't want me here.

694

:

Does he think I'm guilty now?

695

:

You know what I mean?

696

:

Like, And she just wants to

talk to him, and Marge is

697

:

like, Yeah, you kinda gotta go.

698

:

Gotta get out of here.

699

:

He doesn't want you here.

700

:

Kid doesn't want you here, you gotta go.

701

:

So, she has to leave.

702

:

And she spends, I think, the next

part, she's watching TV or something.

703

:

She's just alone.

704

:

She's like, eating chips or

something, and she's just by herself.

705

:

That is definitely an all is lost.

706

:

It's very real for Sandra and the audience

at this point that we start to second

707

:

guess if she's innocent or not, right?

708

:

Not that up until this point

you've made a decision because I'm

709

:

sure you haven't at this point I

hadn't when I got to this point.

710

:

I still didn't know

711

:

Chris: Here's the thing with for

me I I didn't think she did it the

712

:

entire movie, but I was not sure like

I didn't they didn't really convince

713

:

me Either way, I guess, but I didn't,

like, I didn't have a gut saying,

714

:

Oh, I think she, she's playing him.

715

:

You know what I mean?

716

:

Jerome: Right.

717

:

Alright.

718

:

Yep, that works.

719

:

The judge okay, I even said,

The judge even told Daniel not

720

:

to go and he wanted to listen.

721

:

Okay, so this is a

false defeat for Sandra.

722

:

It feels like a defeat.

723

:

But we know that it's not,

because of what happens next.

724

:

Dark Night of the Soul.

725

:

While Sandra is alone and watching TV by

herself, she's starting to contemplate

726

:

possibly her days are numbered.

727

:

Daniel's doing another test!

728

:

He's gonna test out his theory,

by drugging the fucking dog!

729

:

Because he got Now, before everyone starts

hasn't seen it, starts getting up in arms.

730

:

One of the reasons that they floated

in court, why they think it might

731

:

have been a suicide attempt, is

because earlier in, like, what was it?

732

:

Weeks or months earlier,

733

:

Chris: Did we, did we mention there's

gonna be all kinds of spoilers

734

:

if you haven't seen the movie?

735

:

Jerome: I think, I think we, we're gonna

spoil the ending for you, so there you go.

736

:

Actually, yeah, we are.

737

:

Okay, so There's no way to talk

about how good it is if we don't

738

:

leave it out at the ending.

739

:

Yeah, right.

740

:

So So earlier in the film they talked

about how the, she thinks it was suicide

741

:

because they found him passed out earlier,

like months earlier or whatever, and

742

:

there was vomit all over the place,

and there was aspirin in the vomit.

743

:

Right.

744

:

Right?

745

:

So they thought, well he

attempted suicide once.

746

:

Who's to say he didn't attempt it again.

747

:

So the son is not convinced.

748

:

He's gonna test it on the dog He thinks

because the dog got sick too, right?

749

:

So he wants to test it on the dog and see

if he if the dog would throw up vomit if

750

:

eaten a lot of Aspirin, so this fucking

kid laces his own dog's food with aspirin.

751

:

Yeah, like a lot Yeah, like a lot and

by the way can I just stop for a moment

752

:

and say the Oscar goes to the fucking

dog Hehehehehehehehehehehehe This

753

:

dog, I think they really drug the dog.

754

:

This is not.

755

:

No.

756

:

No, no, no This is not CGI, and

you know they can't harm a dog.

757

:

Chris: Ah in America

758

:

Jerome: That is fucking

acting, and I'll tell you

759

:

Chris: Ah, I don't know, man.

760

:

The dog's tongue was out.

761

:

I was like, that's a dead dog.

762

:

Jerome: The dog's tongue is hanging out,

his eyes are rolling back in his head.

763

:

That was not acting, dude.

764

:

They drugged him.

765

:

I'm like, this fucking dog is

the Daniel Day Lewis of canines.

766

:

Like, holy shit, how did this dog

not get nominated for an Oscar?

767

:

I'm like, this is fucking

768

:

amazing!

769

:

Chris: They had some puppy

fentanyl or something, man.

770

:

They drugged his ass.

771

:

I don't

772

:

think so!

773

:

I don't know.

774

:

Jerome: Alright, break into three.

775

:

Daniel figures it all out

because of the dog's vomit.

776

:

The dog, sure enough, they feed the dog,

and it's the way they give the dog the

777

:

water, and the dog starts immediately

drinking the water and then throws up

778

:

all the vomit with the aspirin in it.

779

:

Ah, yeah.

780

:

On cue, motherfuckers!

781

:

Tom Hanks couldn't have done it better.

782

:

So, so the son is convinced,

right, that the dad killed himself.

783

:

That that proves that he

did have a suicidal past.

784

:

And that he, he probably killed himself.

785

:

So, alright, five point

finale, here we go.

786

:

Now, both this film and Past Lives, the

so called five point finale, very fuzzy.

787

:

Alright, very fuzzy.

788

:

It's kinda like an, and both of

these films have an abrupt act

789

:

three that just go pretty quickly.

790

:

And there's not a lot of

ebbs and flows, right?

791

:

There's not a lot of, Oh!

792

:

You know, like, oh, that sounded

bad if you guys aren't watching me.

793

:

What I mean is, highs, and then low.

794

:

And then high, and then low.

795

:

There's not a lot of that.

796

:

These films don't, both of

these films don't have a lot of

797

:

room for that at their ending.

798

:

So, I really had to get creative

with these five point finales here.

799

:

Alright, five point finale.

800

:

Daniel takes the stand.

801

:

That's gathering the team, right?

802

:

Gathering the team, Daniel's

gonna take the stand.

803

:

Execution of the plan.

804

:

Daniel lays out to the jury

and the court the suicide idea

805

:

and how and why it happened.

806

:

He even includes the car ride

story where his dad was bringing

807

:

him home from the vet, right?

808

:

The last time the dog was

sick from this instance.

809

:

By the way, they discovered that

the dog was sick the first time

810

:

because the dog ate the dad's vomit.

811

:

Right, right.

812

:

It had the medicine in it, yeah.

813

:

Right, right, right.

814

:

So, while the dad was driving him

home, the dad goes into this speech.

815

:

This is all kind of done through

story and court and flashback.

816

:

The dad tells him that, you know, you'll

have to say goodbye to your dog someday.

817

:

Like, death is reality.

818

:

Like, it's just going to have to happen.

819

:

In a way, he's preparing

the son for his death.

820

:

For loss.

821

:

Serious loss.

822

:

Chris: And it hits

differently for the kid too.

823

:

It hit differently remembering

that, considering that, oh, dad just

824

:

Trietd to kill himself and he failed.

825

:

And now he's telling

me this about the dog.

826

:

So he was really talking about himself.

827

:

Right.

828

:

Yeah, that was a powerful scene.

829

:

Jerome: And we're going to add a

little bit of extra layer in there.

830

:

You as a dog owner would know this, and

this is kind of a morbid point to make,

831

:

but What do you do when you have a dog

that is dying and has given up on life?

832

:

Well, what do you do?

833

:

What's the humane thing to do?

834

:

Chris: You call my

wife's friend, Jeanette.

835

:

She's a vet, and she'll come

to your house, and you can

836

:

pet him as he goes to sleep.

837

:

Jerome: Okay, but

838

:

Chris: It's

839

:

Jerome: tough.

840

:

Okay, but what's the terminology?

841

:

Chris: Euthanize.

842

:

You put him down.

843

:

Jerome: Well, okay, that's a

little bit too on the nose.

844

:

I meant more like, you put the dog down.

845

:

Chris: Yeah, you put him down.

846

:

Jerome: That's important.

847

:

Hold on to that thought.

848

:

Okay, Hightower Surprise, after

he's done pouring his heart out

849

:

on the stand, the opposing counsel

comes up again, and basically shits

850

:

all over this kid's testimony!

851

:

Yeah.

852

:

He's like, this kid's too close to it,

he's too attached, he's too emotional, we

853

:

have to disregard this entire testimony.

854

:

Like, fucking, this guy

is ruthless, by the way.

855

:

This is a child, pouring his heart

out on the stand about his dad and

856

:

the opposing attorney's like, Can we

really believe anything this kid says?

857

:

Right.

858

:

Yeah, dig down deep.

859

:

The protagonist, Sandra, does

little to dig down deep here, right?

860

:

She does, again, it's

trying to find a heart.

861

:

Other than await the decision,

which eventually is acquittal.

862

:

If anything, that's the dig down

deep is that she's acquitted.

863

:

Execution of the new plan, she's

released and she can go home.

864

:

Where she seeks, in my

opinion, Daniel's forgiveness.

865

:

Now, remember, they talk a lot

earlier where she even says he

866

:

was very close to his father.

867

:

He wasn't very close to me.

868

:

We didn't have a lot of moments together.

869

:

He had a lot of father

son moments with his dad.

870

:

Yeah.

871

:

So that ending, where he hugs her.

872

:

And it almost looks like she's

about to release from the embrace

873

:

and he holds on again, right?

874

:

Like, it's a real emotional hug.

875

:

It's almost like a forgiveness

of, I, I forgive you for being

876

:

a shitty mom and a shitty wife.

877

:

In a way.

878

:

Right.

879

:

It's a little too, a little

harsh coming from Daniel.

880

:

But, you know, she felt that anyway.

881

:

That her son, that was

a very emotional hug.

882

:

Chris: Yeah,

883

:

she felt the failure, I mean, obviously

the failure of the marriage, cause

884

:

Jerome: Absolutely.

885

:

Yeah.

886

:

But she even blamed herself

for failure as a mother.

887

:

Yeah.

888

:

Like, she was so engrossed in her work

and writing books and, you know you know,

889

:

whatever, her extracurricular activities.

890

:

Right.

891

:

He spent a lot of time with the dad.

892

:

Chris: So, my problem with the ending,

I felt like it, it kind of dragged a

893

:

little bit, so I, I just, I sent, like

when she walked out of the courtroom,

894

:

acquitted, if they could have made the,

that, that last scene happen quicker, I

895

:

probably would have been happier with it.

896

:

It just felt weird to me, I

mean, I don't know, it felt like

897

:

it dragged out, and I was like,

898

:

Jerome: Which part?

899

:

The part where she goes home and

tells Marge, okay, you can go now,

900

:

I'm here now, and all that shit?

901

:

Yeah.

902

:

What do you mean?

903

:

Like, from where she hugs him, to where

she goes and lays down with the dog.

904

:

You mean the very, very

ending, or just the whole, like

905

:

Chris: From the time she

walks out of the courtroom.

906

:

Till the time she gets Okay.

907

:

Till the end credits.

908

:

It just seemed like, a long finish.

909

:

Jerome: I think they had to

explain shit, like, okay, it's

910

:

time to say bye to Marge, right?

911

:

The handler's gotta go, and everything.

912

:

And there is a I think they

did that to build up that hug.

913

:

Yeah, yeah, that if they do it too

quickly, it's too abrupt, right?

914

:

We don't feel it.

915

:

We feel that hug from Daniel.

916

:

Okay.

917

:

So here's where my take is on the ending.

918

:

Okay.

919

:

Ah, her spiritual goal is achieved.

920

:

I think her spiritual goal was

again, remember, it's what they

921

:

didn't know that they needed.

922

:

And I think what she needed her spiritual

goal was forgiveness from her son.

923

:

If you had told her at the beginning of

the movie, She wouldn't What you really

924

:

need in life is forgiveness from your son.

925

:

She'd be like, what the

hell are you talking about?

926

:

I don't, why would I need his forgiveness?

927

:

I haven't done it.

928

:

You know what I mean?

929

:

Yeah, yeah.

930

:

But on this journey, this two hour

movie, this court and father's death

931

:

and everything, she realizes, I

do need to reconnect with my son.

932

:

I do need his forgiveness.

933

:

However, here's where it gets interesting.

934

:

I think this is ambiguous.

935

:

If she really is guilty, right and

she was inventing half of this.

936

:

Suicide story I say half because

they believe that he was suicidal.

937

:

He's forgiving her because he knows she's

guilty But the car ride with the dad

938

:

told him that he had given up on life

So even if Daniel thinks she's guilty,

939

:

he was a dog that needed to be put down.

940

:

Oh And his hug his hug at the end

is forgiving her for doing it.

941

:

Chris: So that's so you think

she did it I think she did it.

942

:

Jerome: I think she's guilty as fuck.

943

:

Chris: Now I missed it.

944

:

Now I gotta rewatch it.

945

:

Jerome: Yeah.

946

:

So the car ride specifically and watch

his reaction to the recording that's being

947

:

played in court when they're fighting.

948

:

And then, and then he

talks about that car ride.

949

:

Watch the dad's face when he's

talking to the son and Daniel's

950

:

face when he's explaining to him.

951

:

Yeah.

952

:

He's giving up on life, pretty much.

953

:

He's getting that.

954

:

That's why I said hold that thought.

955

:

What do you do with a dog that's

giving up on life and is dying?

956

:

Chris: You put him down.

957

:

Jerome: You put him down.

958

:

Sandra put him down like a dog.

959

:

That's why the closing image,

she lays down with the dog.

960

:

And again, best actor award, that

dog almost looks at the camera.

961

:

That dog kind of like sits up a minute

and like looks at the camera like, I

962

:

was expecting that dog to fucking wink.

963

:

Like I thought, I thought

a wink was coming.

964

:

It was like the dog's way of

saying, yep, she's guilty.

965

:

Chris: Wow.

966

:

So yeah, you made me think about

that completely differently

967

:

than the first time I saw it.

968

:

Wow.

969

:

Because I only watched it once.

970

:

I rented it, so I only watched it once.

971

:

Jerome: Yeah, it's got what I call

And of course, but maybe ending.

972

:

I'll tell you what that means.

973

:

I steal that line from a Louis C.

974

:

K.

975

:

stand up bit.

976

:

Where he would talk about how there's

this thing that's obvious, right?

977

:

But then there's this, well, but

maybe there's this thing over

978

:

here that nobody talks about.

979

:

Some endings are 50 50.

980

:

They're designed to be ambiguous.

981

:

The ending of Inception

is a perfect example.

982

:

When that top is spinning,

and the camera's closing in on

983

:

it, And then it goes to black.

984

:

And you know that if it falls, he's awake.

985

:

Yeah.

986

:

But if it keeps spinning,

he's still asleep.

987

:

And it goes to black

before anything happens.

988

:

Yeah.

989

:

That's a 50 50 ending.

990

:

That's where people walk out of the

theater going, What do you think?

991

:

What do you think?

992

:

I think he's asleep.

993

:

I think he's awake.

994

:

You know, it's 50 50.

995

:

This isn't a course but maybe.

996

:

This is a 75 25 ending.

997

:

Seventy five is what you saw.

998

:

Yeah.

999

:

She got off.

:

00:40:32,617 --> 00:40:35,051

She's acquitted, and now she needs

to rebuild her life with the sun.

:

00:40:35,051 --> 00:40:35,957

Chris: But it still makes you wonder.

:

00:40:35,997 --> 00:40:38,097

Jerome: There's that twenty

five in there though.

:

00:40:39,097 --> 00:40:39,457

That's pretty good.

:

00:40:39,457 --> 00:40:42,427

It made me think she's

fucking guilty, dude.

:

00:40:42,427 --> 00:40:43,187

She did it.

:

00:40:43,437 --> 00:40:43,787

Alright.

:

00:40:43,787 --> 00:40:44,257

She did it.

:

00:40:44,897 --> 00:40:45,067

Wow.

:

00:40:45,197 --> 00:40:45,377

She killed him.

:

00:40:45,947 --> 00:40:47,067

And the sun knows it.

:

00:40:47,107 --> 00:40:48,517

The sun knows she killed him.

:

00:40:48,937 --> 00:40:50,647

But, he's forgiving her.

:

00:40:50,667 --> 00:40:54,217

Chris: Well, I'm, I feel much better about

the movie now than when I watched it.

:

00:40:54,217 --> 00:40:58,417

Cause I was like, if she was just

innocent, and that, that was it.

:

00:40:58,577 --> 00:41:00,352

It I don't know.

:

00:41:00,412 --> 00:41:01,274

It was okay.

:

00:41:01,274 --> 00:41:03,179

It was an okay movie.

:

00:41:03,179 --> 00:41:05,082

Jerome: I have backup

for this, by the way.

:

00:41:05,172 --> 00:41:06,142

Okay, let's hear it.

:

00:41:06,432 --> 00:41:06,792

Alright.

:

00:41:07,822 --> 00:41:08,552

A little bit of trivia.

:

00:41:08,562 --> 00:41:10,102

First, let's go again

with the notes on the ark.

:

00:41:10,102 --> 00:41:13,762

So, Sandra's tangible goal,

obviously, is to get acquitted, right?

:

00:41:13,762 --> 00:41:14,932

That's her tangible goal.

:

00:41:15,272 --> 00:41:17,872

Her spiritual goal is

Daniel's forgiveness, right?

:

00:41:18,292 --> 00:41:22,432

And again, whether she's guilty or not,

if she's innocent, her forgiveness is,

:

00:41:22,452 --> 00:41:25,962

he's forgiving her for being distant

as a mother, and for being a bad wife.

:

00:41:26,802 --> 00:41:30,352

If she's guilty, It's his forgiveness

for killing him, for killing Samuel.

:

00:41:31,042 --> 00:41:33,132

Okay, so we talked about

hitting the beats in order.

:

00:41:33,432 --> 00:41:37,372

Catalyst comes very early, the tangible

goal comes very late, there's kind of a

:

00:41:37,372 --> 00:41:41,167

weak Hightower surprise, but It works.

:

00:41:41,617 --> 00:41:42,747

Because they're in order.

:

00:41:42,877 --> 00:41:43,147

Yeah.

:

00:41:43,147 --> 00:41:43,527

Right?

:

00:41:43,897 --> 00:41:46,877

And that's the main thing for you

writers out there, who, who listen to

:

00:41:46,877 --> 00:41:51,077

our podcasts, to kind of get strategic

ideas that, you know, and again, I don't

:

00:41:51,077 --> 00:41:53,627

think we mentioned this enough, I think

we need to start mentioning it more or

:

00:41:53,627 --> 00:41:55,067

else we're gonna be hit with plagiarism.

:

00:41:55,917 --> 00:41:58,637

We follow this beat sheet

comes from Blake Snyder and his

:

00:41:58,637 --> 00:42:00,247

Save the Cat trilogy of books.

:

00:42:00,597 --> 00:42:01,807

That's where we get all these terms from.

:

00:42:01,807 --> 00:42:04,077

We didn't make this shit up,

I didn't invent any of this.

:

00:42:04,327 --> 00:42:09,447

You know, we, we, we reference the Save

the Cat Trilogy, which, which breaks down

:

00:42:09,447 --> 00:42:11,507

films like this in the order of beats.

:

00:42:11,907 --> 00:42:15,807

Uh, Which helps drive your story

and drive your main character

:

00:42:15,807 --> 00:42:17,157

to their spiritual goal.

:

00:42:17,647 --> 00:42:18,897

This film follows all of them.

:

00:42:19,107 --> 00:42:21,377

There may be a lit, you know,

like I said, one's early, one's

:

00:42:21,377 --> 00:42:22,677

late, but they follow all of them.

:

00:42:23,197 --> 00:42:25,527

Okay, a couple of things to add here.

:

00:42:25,527 --> 00:42:28,177

I don't want to say these are

trivia, but I think it was a

:

00:42:28,287 --> 00:42:30,247

perfect casting for Sandra Huller.

:

00:42:30,557 --> 00:42:32,107

She has that look.

:

00:42:32,177 --> 00:42:32,467

Yeah.

:

00:42:33,052 --> 00:42:35,302

Of both Predator and Prey.

:

00:42:35,782 --> 00:42:38,209

That's another reason why I

think it's ambiguous, the ending.

:

00:42:38,209 --> 00:42:41,494

Because when you look at her

sometimes in court, you're

:

00:42:41,494 --> 00:42:43,112

like, That bitch is dirty, dude.

:

00:42:43,112 --> 00:42:47,242

She's, she's gonna, she could fucking

kill him, and she might kill the son.

:

00:42:47,392 --> 00:42:48,802

She might kill the son, for all we know.

:

00:42:49,002 --> 00:42:52,082

But then there's other scenes where

you feel, like, sympathetic towards

:

00:42:52,082 --> 00:42:53,617

her, like, You know what I mean?

:

00:42:53,617 --> 00:42:54,867

Like, it was just perfect casting.

:

00:42:54,887 --> 00:42:56,337

You know I thought that was great.

:

00:42:56,707 --> 00:43:02,197

The dog, by the way, did win the Palm

Dog Award at the Cannes Film Festival.

:

00:43:02,707 --> 00:43:04,677

So, I'm not wrong.

:

00:43:05,477 --> 00:43:08,457

The Oscars need to come up with

the best fucking pet Oscar.

:

00:43:08,997 --> 00:43:09,397

Okay.

:

00:43:09,557 --> 00:43:12,247

My last point before I turn it over

to you, and this is the best part

:

00:43:12,247 --> 00:43:14,027

that serves the ambiguous ending.

:

00:43:15,952 --> 00:43:21,292

Sandra Huller went to the director,

Justine Triet, she told this story,

:

00:43:21,762 --> 00:43:27,222

that Triet never told her if the

character Sandra was guilty or innocent.

:

00:43:27,832 --> 00:43:30,172

She asked her several times,

and she wouldn't tell her.

:

00:43:30,352 --> 00:43:33,522

All she told her was, the only

direction she gave her was, I

:

00:43:33,522 --> 00:43:35,762

simply want you to act innocent.

:

00:43:37,102 --> 00:43:37,552

Okay.

:

00:43:38,442 --> 00:43:42,552

Right . So, ah, I don't know.

:

00:43:42,687 --> 00:43:44,532

I think, I think she's guilty as fuck.

:

00:43:44,532 --> 00:43:48,672

I think she did it . I think it

was another argument that got bad.

:

00:43:48,912 --> 00:43:49,122

Yeah.

:

00:43:49,127 --> 00:43:51,852

And he was on the edge of that

balcony and she just pushed that

:

00:43:51,852 --> 00:43:56,712

motherfucker right over and he cracked

his head on the shed below, split his

:

00:43:56,712 --> 00:43:58,422

head open, and there you have him.

:

00:43:58,422 --> 00:43:58,842

Chris: Game over.

:

00:43:59,537 --> 00:44:00,347

Jerome: So, what are your thoughts?

:

00:44:01,697 --> 00:44:02,667

Other than what you told me.

:

00:44:03,407 --> 00:44:06,277

Chris: Yeah, I don't want to

add anything because I really

:

00:44:06,277 --> 00:44:07,497

want to get to the next one.

:

00:44:07,507 --> 00:44:11,147

But uh, no, you've made

me rethink the movie.

:

00:44:11,597 --> 00:44:12,967

Because, so here, that's the thing.

:

00:44:12,967 --> 00:44:16,367

If you watch this movie, and you

finish the movie thinking she's

:

00:44:16,367 --> 00:44:18,617

innocent, Eh, it's an okay movie.

:

00:44:19,037 --> 00:44:20,847

Jerome: Right, the

ending's kinda, eh, right.

:

00:44:20,857 --> 00:44:22,817

Chris: That's why I said, that's

why I told you, I texted you.

:

00:44:22,817 --> 00:44:24,327

I was like, nah, it was okay.

:

00:44:24,327 --> 00:44:28,767

But, rethinking it now,

I'm like, holy shit.

:

00:44:29,267 --> 00:44:31,327

You know, it's I'm gonna

have to rewatch it.

:

00:44:31,477 --> 00:44:32,097

For real.

:

00:44:32,147 --> 00:44:32,297

I'm

:

00:44:32,517 --> 00:44:32,537

it.

:

00:44:32,537 --> 00:44:34,517

Jerome: I may be wrong,

but I watched it twice.

:

00:44:34,812 --> 00:44:35,462

For this reason.

:

00:44:35,502 --> 00:44:35,902

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:44:36,252 --> 00:44:39,422

No, that's, those are some

really strong points, so.

:

00:44:39,652 --> 00:44:39,972

Jerome: Yeah.

:

00:44:40,452 --> 00:44:41,062

Alright.

:

00:44:41,312 --> 00:44:42,892

So let's move on now to Past Lives.

:

00:44:42,922 --> 00:44:43,312

Yes.

:

00:44:43,552 --> 00:44:44,172

Another good one.

:

00:44:44,192 --> 00:44:45,172

Best Picture nominee.

:

00:44:45,222 --> 00:44:46,202

Nominated for Best Screenplay.

:

00:44:46,232 --> 00:44:49,602

Now this was the one I bagged a little

bit on our Oscar show, our pre Oscar

:

00:44:49,602 --> 00:44:53,372

show, where I said, do we really need to

fill out all ten slots for Best Picture?

:

00:44:53,382 --> 00:44:54,422

We don't have to have ten.

:

00:44:54,422 --> 00:44:57,602

I feel like they just threw Past Lives

in there just to fill out the ten.

:

00:44:58,642 --> 00:45:02,242

I still kind of feel that way

because it's a good movie.

:

00:45:02,527 --> 00:45:04,877

But I don't know if I would say

this has got a shot at Best Picture.

:

00:45:04,967 --> 00:45:05,567

You know what I mean?

:

00:45:05,797 --> 00:45:05,997

Yeah.

:

00:45:06,027 --> 00:45:10,657

It's a good, it's a good kind of,

it's a good story and a good film.

:

00:45:11,177 --> 00:45:12,777

Written and directed by Celine Song.

:

00:45:13,747 --> 00:45:16,917

By the way, you'll be impressed to

know this is her first feature film.

:

00:45:17,677 --> 00:45:18,927

As a writer and as a director.

:

00:45:18,927 --> 00:45:22,827

She had written nine episodes on a

TV show called The Wheel of Time,

:

00:45:23,157 --> 00:45:25,827

but that was the only writing she had

done prior to writing this script.

:

00:45:26,427 --> 00:45:28,477

And it's the first time

she directed anything.

:

00:45:28,587 --> 00:45:28,967

Wow.

:

00:45:28,977 --> 00:45:30,707

This is her only directing

credit right now.

:

00:45:31,392 --> 00:45:33,072

So pretty impressive

for a rookie campaign.

:

00:45:33,412 --> 00:45:33,732

Yeah.

:

00:45:34,662 --> 00:45:38,962

It stars Greta Lee as Nora,

and Yoo Tae oh as Hae sung.

:

00:45:39,372 --> 00:45:42,482

I know what you're gonna

say, isn't it Tae oh yoo?

:

00:45:43,372 --> 00:45:48,192

But as you know, in Korea, as in Japan,

and I think China too, but mostly

:

00:45:48,232 --> 00:45:52,692

Jap a lot of those Southeast Asian

counTriets, the last name comes first.

:

00:45:53,902 --> 00:45:56,062

Like, in America, you'd

be known as Wiegand Chris.

:

00:45:56,232 --> 00:45:58,122

Like, the family name comes first.

:

00:45:58,352 --> 00:46:01,832

So, properly, he would be called Yuteo.

:

00:46:01,832 --> 00:46:03,752

Teo is actually his first

name, which would come last.

:

00:46:04,132 --> 00:46:06,592

And John Magaro as Arthur.

:

00:46:07,622 --> 00:46:13,062

Now, Past Lives made almost 23 million

at the box office, doubling its budget.

:

00:46:13,482 --> 00:46:16,712

Uh, With a little less than half

coming from domestic and the

:

00:46:16,712 --> 00:46:18,632

other half coming from overseas.

:

00:46:18,642 --> 00:46:20,202

So, pretty split down the middle.

:

00:46:20,532 --> 00:46:21,242

Not too bad.

:

00:46:21,252 --> 00:46:23,382

Good for 114th place, as I said.

:

00:46:23,847 --> 00:46:27,547

It did beat out some critical

darlings like Saltburn and Dumb Money.

:

00:46:27,577 --> 00:46:31,617

Those I get, those had billboards,

those had commercials that I saw

:

00:46:31,617 --> 00:46:35,527

on streaming, and, and Past Lives

I didn't know even existed until

:

00:46:35,527 --> 00:46:36,727

the Oscar nominations came out.

:

00:46:36,817 --> 00:46:36,987

Right.

:

00:46:37,037 --> 00:46:39,237

And it made, and it made more

money than those two films.

:

00:46:39,517 --> 00:46:39,927

What was the budget?

:

00:46:39,927 --> 00:46:40,177

But!

:

00:46:40,237 --> 00:46:41,257

What'd you say the budget was?

:

00:46:41,587 --> 00:46:42,057

Twelve?

:

00:46:42,257 --> 00:46:43,877

I googled, I googled it said twelve.

:

00:46:43,917 --> 00:46:44,267

Okay.

:

00:46:45,017 --> 00:46:46,547

So now this is gonna be funny.

:

00:46:46,587 --> 00:46:50,597

To put into perspective though,

it finished at 1 14th, right?

:

00:46:51,297 --> 00:46:52,987

The other movie finished at 1 10th.

:

00:46:53,767 --> 00:46:57,147

The Titanic 25th anniversary re release?

:

00:46:58,582 --> 00:47:01,942

Made more money than both

of these films combined.

:

00:47:02,192 --> 00:47:02,332

Oh god.

:

00:47:03,002 --> 00:47:08,562

The 25th anniversary re release of

Titanic made 70 million dollars worldwide.

:

00:47:08,562 --> 00:47:08,762

That's ridiculous.

:

00:47:08,762 --> 00:47:11,942

That's what any film being

released would want to make.

:

00:47:12,902 --> 00:47:14,402

Chris: You mean at the box office?

:

00:47:14,452 --> 00:47:14,902

Yes.

:

00:47:15,002 --> 00:47:15,222

Oh my god.

:

00:47:15,232 --> 00:47:16,562

Jerome: They re released it in theaters.

:

00:47:17,232 --> 00:47:18,192

Chris: I didn't even know.

:

00:47:18,192 --> 00:47:20,012

Jerome: And it made 70 million dollars.

:

00:47:20,502 --> 00:47:23,102

More than both of these movies

that we're talking about combined.

:

00:47:24,252 --> 00:47:25,132

Fucking insane.

:

00:47:25,552 --> 00:47:25,922

Alright.

:

00:47:26,282 --> 00:47:26,802

Log me.

:

00:47:28,262 --> 00:47:28,582

Chris: Alright.

:

00:47:30,212 --> 00:47:34,002

Nora and Hae Sung, two deeply

connected childhood friends,

:

00:47:34,042 --> 00:47:37,972

are wrestled apart after Nora's

family emigrates from South Korea.

:

00:47:38,962 --> 00:47:42,572

Twenty years later, they are reunited

for one faithful week as they

:

00:47:42,572 --> 00:47:45,382

confront notions of love and destiny.

:

00:47:46,932 --> 00:47:48,192

I don't like the, the logline.

:

00:47:49,072 --> 00:47:50,152

Jerome: I fucking hate it.

:

00:47:50,162 --> 00:47:51,672

Chris: Yeah, it's, it's horrible.

:

00:47:51,672 --> 00:47:55,532

Jerome: So, I, I decided

to come up with one.

:

00:47:55,552 --> 00:47:56,542

Chris: Yeah, let's hear yours.

:

00:47:56,552 --> 00:47:58,202

Jerome: That's a, that's

a little bit cleaner.

:

00:47:58,272 --> 00:47:58,602

Yeah.

:

00:47:59,802 --> 00:48:04,832

I have two childhood friends consider

the texture of their relationship

:

00:48:04,852 --> 00:48:08,432

over two decades as they drift

apart and live different lives.

:

00:48:09,792 --> 00:48:12,062

Chris: Yeah, that's, that's

a better, better logline.

:

00:48:12,902 --> 00:48:16,332

Cause notions of love and

:

00:48:16,732 --> 00:48:17,552

destiny is kinda

:

00:48:17,552 --> 00:48:19,562

Jerome: I think there's, they're

throwing too much at you.

:

00:48:19,562 --> 00:48:22,552

Remember we had this problem

with Fat Man's logline.

:

00:48:22,712 --> 00:48:25,792

Where they Trietd to throw two or three

different storylines into one logline.

:

00:48:25,812 --> 00:48:30,657

Chris: Well, and one of the problems

I had with this film is that I think

:

00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:36,197

because of the trailer, it made me

feel like it was about lost love.

:

00:48:36,717 --> 00:48:37,617

And it's really not.

:

00:48:37,707 --> 00:48:38,352

It really, it's really,

:

00:48:38,352 --> 00:48:38,637

Jerome: it's, it's

:

00:48:38,637 --> 00:48:39,627

about lost childhood first.

:

00:48:39,627 --> 00:48:40,557

Chris: Lost childhood.

:

00:48:40,977 --> 00:48:41,817

And it's, it's an Im

:

00:48:41,817 --> 00:48:43,527

Jerome: with, with a potential for love.

:

00:48:43,617 --> 00:48:45,027

Chris: And it's an immigrant story.

:

00:48:45,817 --> 00:48:46,177

Jerome: Yes.

:

00:48:46,417 --> 00:48:47,467

Chris: Is what it is.

:

00:48:47,817 --> 00:48:51,567

It's, it's not about lost love, but

it's, so anyway, we'll get into that.

:

00:48:52,427 --> 00:48:52,457

Jerome: Right.

:

00:48:53,072 --> 00:48:53,312

Right.

:

00:48:53,362 --> 00:48:53,732

Okay.

:

00:48:53,942 --> 00:48:54,652

We have.

:

00:48:55,392 --> 00:48:56,002

The beats.

:

00:48:56,702 --> 00:48:59,272

Alright, so the opening image,

this is an interesting one because

:

00:48:59,272 --> 00:49:00,692

it's kind of a flash forward.

:

00:49:00,692 --> 00:49:05,032

It's when they're already adults, they're

having drinks in a bar at 4am, and

:

00:49:05,042 --> 00:49:09,462

strangers, who we never see later in the

movie, are playing this who is who game.

:

00:49:09,472 --> 00:49:10,372

Who do you think she is?

:

00:49:10,372 --> 00:49:11,532

I think she's married to that guy.

:

00:49:11,532 --> 00:49:12,892

Who do you think the

other guy is, you know?

:

00:49:13,342 --> 00:49:16,972

Coincidentally, Hae Sung seems

happy to be in the company of Nora.

:

00:49:17,412 --> 00:49:19,182

This'll be important for the bookend.

:

00:49:19,752 --> 00:49:20,922

Okay, theme stated.

:

00:49:21,012 --> 00:49:23,752

I felt there was kind of

a two part theme here.

:

00:49:23,962 --> 00:49:26,852

So as the film opens, Nora

and her sister are kids.

:

00:49:26,852 --> 00:49:28,332

This is 25 years ago.

:

00:49:28,892 --> 00:49:32,252

And they're tasked with choosing new

names as they immigrate to Canada.

:

00:49:32,372 --> 00:49:33,682

That's where they're going originally.

:

00:49:33,712 --> 00:49:33,952

Right.

:

00:49:34,002 --> 00:49:36,482

And the, and the mom has asked,

you know, have you decided?

:

00:49:36,772 --> 00:49:38,842

And they start arguing

about what names they want.

:

00:49:39,102 --> 00:49:43,682

For anyone that really doesn't get

this In, in a lot of Asian cultures.

:

00:49:44,342 --> 00:49:50,132

Names can be, like, Hae Sung, or,

you know, Seoyoung C, or whatever.

:

00:49:50,142 --> 00:49:54,882

Like, they feel it's easier for

them to blend in, in Western

:

00:49:54,882 --> 00:49:59,622

culture, Canada, America, if they

give themselves a name like Janet,

:

00:49:59,932 --> 00:50:01,142

or Margaret, you know what I mean?

:

00:50:01,142 --> 00:50:01,822

Or something like that.

:

00:50:01,822 --> 00:50:03,442

Like, they give themselves

an American name, basically.

:

00:50:03,452 --> 00:50:03,902

Right, right.

:

00:50:04,112 --> 00:50:07,072

To make it easier to fit in, and blend in.

:

00:50:07,082 --> 00:50:12,252

So that's common, and I know this because

I work in the pharmaceutical industry.

:

00:50:12,932 --> 00:50:16,912

Well, we'll say retail pharmaceutical

industry, where I, I have come

:

00:50:16,912 --> 00:50:20,582

across, I can't even tell you

how many pharmacists have Asian

:

00:50:20,592 --> 00:50:21,912

backgrounds, Far East backgrounds.

:

00:50:22,192 --> 00:50:26,852

Some of them, first generation, some

of them been here a while, but a lot

:

00:50:26,852 --> 00:50:28,982

of them don't use their real name.

:

00:50:29,162 --> 00:50:32,192

They have like an Americanized

name that they use.

:

00:50:32,352 --> 00:50:33,932

It's just, you know,

something that they do.

:

00:50:34,242 --> 00:50:37,712

So the, the point of this is

that it's interesting that that's

:

00:50:37,712 --> 00:50:39,672

one of the themes is choice.

:

00:50:41,147 --> 00:50:43,767

The mother sets up, right

at the beginning, choices.

:

00:50:44,537 --> 00:50:45,657

What did you choose?

:

00:50:45,667 --> 00:50:46,937

Have you decided?

:

00:50:47,377 --> 00:50:50,517

The idea of decisions and choices is

going to be a running theme throughout

:

00:50:50,517 --> 00:50:52,537

this whole film and their whole lives.

:

00:50:52,607 --> 00:50:52,837

Yeah.

:

00:50:52,867 --> 00:50:53,237

Right?

:

00:50:54,237 --> 00:50:57,767

The second choice, or the second

thing, not the second choice, but

:

00:50:57,767 --> 00:50:59,347

what I said is a two part theme.

:

00:50:59,647 --> 00:51:03,487

The other theme that I think rings

true is, a couple of scenes later,

:

00:51:04,292 --> 00:51:07,412

Nora and Hay Sung who are children are

having kinda like a day date, right?

:

00:51:07,412 --> 00:51:09,812

They're like playing in the

park and their moms are there.

:

00:51:09,842 --> 00:51:09,932

Mm-Hmm.

:

00:51:10,672 --> 00:51:15,262

. And when Nora's mom tells Hay

Sung's mom that they're leaving,

:

00:51:15,292 --> 00:51:16,372

that they're moving to Canada.

:

00:51:17,582 --> 00:51:20,732

Hay sung's mom's obviously disappointed

'cause they thought, you know, they

:

00:51:20,732 --> 00:51:23,072

thought these two could grow up

together and get married someday.

:

00:51:24,962 --> 00:51:26,962

She says, why would you

leave all this behind?

:

00:51:26,972 --> 00:51:30,702

You're your husband's a filmmaker,

you're a writer or something like that.

:

00:51:30,702 --> 00:51:32,472

You know why would you

leave all this behind?

:

00:51:32,472 --> 00:51:35,432

And the mother says, and I

quote, when you leave something

:

00:51:35,432 --> 00:51:37,372

behind, you gain something too.

:

00:51:38,612 --> 00:51:42,392

So that's a, that's this film in a

nutshell, if you think about it, right?

:

00:51:42,732 --> 00:51:43,832

It's about choice.

:

00:51:44,252 --> 00:51:46,042

And when you make that decision.

:

00:51:46,882 --> 00:51:50,422

You are leaving something behind, but

you're gonna gain something out of it.

:

00:51:50,912 --> 00:51:55,392

That is, what is that, six

minutes into the movie.

:

00:51:55,492 --> 00:51:55,762

Right.

:

00:51:56,032 --> 00:51:57,212

That was at the six minute mark.

:

00:51:57,672 --> 00:52:02,042

So anyway, I broke this down, not just

in acts, like you usually do, but I also

:

00:52:02,042 --> 00:52:04,712

have three versions of Nora's world.

:

00:52:06,247 --> 00:52:11,827

Act 1 is the first version of her

world, where she is with Hae Sung,

:

00:52:12,907 --> 00:52:14,837

physically together, as friends.

:

00:52:14,837 --> 00:52:18,107

Alright, 14 minutes in, Catalyst.

:

00:52:18,107 --> 00:52:20,487

After 12 years, we now

jump ahead 12 years.

:

00:52:21,017 --> 00:52:24,467

Now, since she's moved away

from South Korea, Nora discovers

:

00:52:24,467 --> 00:52:25,787

Hae Sung is looking for her.

:

00:52:26,117 --> 00:52:26,507

Hae Sung.

:

00:52:26,527 --> 00:52:28,327

He finds out this on Facebook.

:

00:52:29,207 --> 00:52:32,127

Up until this moment,

her life was in progress.

:

00:52:32,377 --> 00:52:36,607

Hae Sung, finding out that he does not

only still exist, has a Facebook account,

:

00:52:36,627 --> 00:52:40,357

and has been looking for her, that's

the catalyst that starts the story off.

:

00:52:40,587 --> 00:52:43,767

He's sort of crashing back into her

life and it catches her off guard.

:

00:52:44,267 --> 00:52:45,257

Debate begins.

:

00:52:45,512 --> 00:52:47,352

She has to decide, what am I going to do?

:

00:52:47,422 --> 00:52:51,022

now remember, the debate begins is

a lot like Dark Knight of the Soul.

:

00:52:51,302 --> 00:52:53,632

It could take five seconds,

it could take five minutes.

:

00:52:53,642 --> 00:52:55,832

It could be a whole scene,

it could be a half a scene.

:

00:52:56,722 --> 00:53:01,322

It's whatever the, the protagonist is

going to decide once they meet that

:

00:53:01,432 --> 00:53:03,032

inciting incident, that catalyst.

:

00:53:03,042 --> 00:53:05,792

They have to decide, am I going

to go on this journey to act two?

:

00:53:06,102 --> 00:53:07,782

Or am I just going to keep

my life the way it is?

:

00:53:07,792 --> 00:53:10,277

She could have just ignored it,

she could have said Oh, cool.

:

00:53:10,277 --> 00:53:10,927

He's still around.

:

00:53:11,047 --> 00:53:11,517

I don't care.

:

00:53:11,537 --> 00:53:12,457

I knew him when I was a kid.

:

00:53:12,797 --> 00:53:13,187

That was it.

:

00:53:13,497 --> 00:53:13,727

Right.

:

00:53:13,777 --> 00:53:17,887

But no, she chooses to reach out,

right, and try to make contact.

:

00:53:18,947 --> 00:53:19,687

Break into two.

:

00:53:19,727 --> 00:53:21,587

Twenty minutes in, they FaceTime.

:

00:53:21,847 --> 00:53:25,177

First time they've seen each other

in twelve years, and the friendship

:

00:53:25,177 --> 00:53:26,567

is immediately reconnected.

:

00:53:26,727 --> 00:53:30,257

It seemed awkward and shaky at first,

but they kind of go into their old

:

00:53:30,257 --> 00:53:32,377

routine like they hadn't missed a beat.

:

00:53:32,637 --> 00:53:37,257

Fun and games montage of lots

of FaceTime between the two.

:

00:53:37,257 --> 00:53:39,707

We now see like passage

of time montage, right?

:

00:53:39,707 --> 00:53:40,897

Where they're doing this every day.

:

00:53:40,897 --> 00:53:41,297

Almost.

:

00:53:41,517 --> 00:53:42,927

They're talking all the time.

:

00:53:43,127 --> 00:53:46,947

It's a mirror flip of the first act

because she's almost becoming obsessed

:

00:53:46,947 --> 00:53:48,787

with this FaceTime connection, right?

:

00:53:49,067 --> 00:53:51,897

She will rush home from work so

she can FaceTime with Hye Sung.

:

00:53:52,027 --> 00:53:55,357

Chris: Well, and we should note that

this is when she's not married yet.

:

00:53:55,922 --> 00:53:56,382

Correct.

:

00:53:56,392 --> 00:53:57,082

She's single.

:

00:53:57,162 --> 00:54:02,172

Yeah, she's single, and so I forget the

age she was, but this is before she got

:

00:54:02,172 --> 00:54:02,582

married.

:

00:54:02,892 --> 00:54:05,392

Jerome: Yeah, this is like mid

twenties, early twenties, I think,

:

00:54:05,402 --> 00:54:06,642

because they were like, what, ten?

:

00:54:07,082 --> 00:54:08,192

And then twelve years went by.

:

00:54:08,192 --> 00:54:10,282

So like, twenty two,

twenty three ish, maybe?

:

00:54:10,402 --> 00:54:10,552

Yeah.

:

00:54:10,702 --> 00:54:15,152

But you actually stopped me right before I

finished the sentence, which was, I, well,

:

00:54:15,152 --> 00:54:18,762

no, I thought you were going to say she's

not married yet, and this is, I thought

:

00:54:18,762 --> 00:54:23,852

you were going to allude to this sounding

a bit romantic, these face timings, right?

:

00:54:24,597 --> 00:54:28,827

And I was going to say that perhaps all

this long distance relationships, are

:

00:54:28,827 --> 00:54:30,117

they starting to fall for each other?

:

00:54:30,147 --> 00:54:31,917

Cause they kind of are, right?

:

00:54:32,447 --> 00:54:34,287

They're rekindling their friendship.

:

00:54:35,132 --> 00:54:40,452

But they're spending so much time

connecting that she doesn't give time

:

00:54:40,452 --> 00:54:42,872

for anybody else, and neither does he.

:

00:54:42,952 --> 00:54:46,442

He even doesn't he even leave, going

out with drinks from his friends?

:

00:54:46,442 --> 00:54:50,072

Like he leaves early so that he can

go home and FaceTime with Nora, right?

:

00:54:50,382 --> 00:54:52,922

So so it culminates in Nora's challenge.

:

00:54:53,172 --> 00:54:56,202

She drops a challenge in

the early part of Act 2.

:

00:54:56,592 --> 00:55:00,512

She tells Ha Sung he needs to come to

New York which is where she lives now.

:

00:55:00,512 --> 00:55:02,382

She no longer lives in Canada,

she has moved to New York.

:

00:55:02,752 --> 00:55:05,742

He says it won't be for a while,

like he's got business stuff going

:

00:55:05,742 --> 00:55:07,306

on, she has business stuff going on.

:

00:55:07,306 --> 00:55:08,287

Chris: At least a year or so.

:

00:55:08,287 --> 00:55:09,602

Jerome: At least a year, he says.

:

00:55:10,082 --> 00:55:10,902

She can't handle that.

:

00:55:11,652 --> 00:55:15,212

She immediately is like we need

to take a break then because yeah,

:

00:55:15,832 --> 00:55:17,652

Chris: she's clear about where

she was going in her life

:

00:55:17,762 --> 00:55:23,182

Jerome: Yeah, and she want exactly and

she wanted to Explore a relationship

:

00:55:23,182 --> 00:55:25,992

with Hae Sung, but she was tired

of doing it over FaceTime, right?

:

00:55:26,082 --> 00:55:28,992

You know now she wants to see him

and he's like at least a year She's

:

00:55:28,992 --> 00:55:33,262

like that is crushing to her right,

you know, cuz she's if anything

:

00:55:33,262 --> 00:55:37,917

Nora's character comes off as very

deliberate Passionate, but deliberate.

:

00:55:38,147 --> 00:55:42,067

At the beginning, when they're kids

and she doesn't win the number one quiz

:

00:55:42,067 --> 00:55:44,437

score or whatever, she's crying, right?

:

00:55:44,717 --> 00:55:45,917

He's like, why are you crying?

:

00:55:45,917 --> 00:55:46,437

Like, so what?

:

00:55:46,437 --> 00:55:47,157

You win all the time.

:

00:55:47,157 --> 00:55:48,277

I win once and you cry?

:

00:55:48,617 --> 00:55:49,167

You know what I mean?

:

00:55:49,167 --> 00:55:52,627

Like, she's very like, this is

what I want kind of thing, right?

:

00:55:52,667 --> 00:55:52,887

Yeah, yeah.

:

00:55:52,887 --> 00:55:54,197

She's very much like that.

:

00:55:54,547 --> 00:55:55,257

B Story.

:

00:55:55,827 --> 00:55:57,167

Now the B Story runs a little late.

:

00:55:57,937 --> 00:55:59,437

It's 40 minutes in.

:

00:55:59,637 --> 00:56:03,087

Nora moves into her new apartment and

at the 40 minute mark, she meets Arthur.

:

00:56:03,627 --> 00:56:04,887

Why is Arthur the B story?

:

00:56:04,897 --> 00:56:07,227

It's not just because he's the

romantic interest, he is going to

:

00:56:07,227 --> 00:56:09,507

help lead her to her spiritual goal.

:

00:56:10,287 --> 00:56:10,597

Okay.

:

00:56:10,887 --> 00:56:13,507

Now this is the second version

of her world, by the way.

:

00:56:13,507 --> 00:56:17,217

We've been in the second version this

whole time, where she is friends with

:

00:56:17,217 --> 00:56:19,337

Hae Sung again, but only long distance.

:

00:56:19,347 --> 00:56:19,897

Right, right.

:

00:56:20,847 --> 00:56:21,357

As adults.

:

00:56:21,367 --> 00:56:24,707

So they were kids together,

long distance apart.

:

00:56:26,967 --> 00:56:28,327

Cut to 12 years later.

:

00:56:29,247 --> 00:56:30,997

Nora and Arthur are married.

:

00:56:31,007 --> 00:56:36,187

We reach the midpoint scene at 49

minutes in of a, 49 minutes in, by the

:

00:56:36,187 --> 00:56:38,177

way, of an hour and 45 minute film.

:

00:56:38,177 --> 00:56:38,817

So think about that.

:

00:56:38,817 --> 00:56:41,447

That's like almost right in the middle.

:

00:56:42,007 --> 00:56:45,737

Hae Sung finally agrees and comes

to New York to meet up with Nora.

:

00:56:45,967 --> 00:56:46,147

Yeah.

:

00:56:46,187 --> 00:56:46,637

Okay.

:

00:56:47,927 --> 00:56:49,397

Ugh, bad guys closing in.

:

00:56:49,397 --> 00:56:50,627

This can't be good for Arthur.

:

00:56:51,127 --> 00:56:51,777

I mean, right?

:

00:56:51,997 --> 00:56:57,197

So, but, they, they have a long day

date and oh much, so much so that it's

:

00:56:57,197 --> 00:57:01,147

difficult for Nora when she gets home

at night to explain this to Arthur.

:

00:57:01,257 --> 00:57:01,467

Mm hmm.

:

00:57:01,477 --> 00:57:01,817

Right?

:

00:57:02,037 --> 00:57:02,567

Her husband.

:

00:57:02,567 --> 00:57:03,707

Now, they've married, they've

been married for what?

:

00:57:03,717 --> 00:57:04,967

Now, seven years at this point, right?

:

00:57:04,967 --> 00:57:05,177

Yeah.

:

00:57:05,647 --> 00:57:07,717

They've been married for seven

years, and she's finding it

:

00:57:07,727 --> 00:57:10,997

difficult to explain this friendship.

:

00:57:11,697 --> 00:57:16,287

With her husband, who's obviously

American and ain't down with this shit.

:

00:57:16,787 --> 00:57:17,167

Right?

:

00:57:17,647 --> 00:57:20,477

This, don't give me this well, you

know, the whole title of Past Lives

:

00:57:20,477 --> 00:57:23,347

comes from that discussion that she had

with him earlier when they first met.

:

00:57:23,797 --> 00:57:25,277

Was the In Yun, right?

:

00:57:25,307 --> 00:57:29,367

Which means that you will have a

connection over, over, over several lives.

:

00:57:29,367 --> 00:57:30,197

Right, right, right.

:

00:57:30,367 --> 00:57:31,607

That you're destiny, basically.

:

00:57:31,607 --> 00:57:33,067

It's your destiny to be together.

:

00:57:33,117 --> 00:57:33,347

Yeah.

:

00:57:34,427 --> 00:57:38,257

Chris: Yeah, they did a good job with

the dialogue between her and her husband.

:

00:57:38,657 --> 00:57:38,997

Yes.

:

00:57:39,067 --> 00:57:44,327

About this, because, yeah, because

it would be weird if You know, if

:

00:57:44,327 --> 00:57:47,997

this happened and, but they kind

of just laid it out, laid it out.

:

00:57:47,997 --> 00:57:49,647

Yeah, this is, but what am I going to do?

:

00:57:49,667 --> 00:57:52,377

Stand and stand in between

you and your childhood friend.

:

00:57:52,827 --> 00:57:54,527

He, you know, he trusted her, you know,

:

00:57:54,587 --> 00:57:55,607

Jerome: he doesn't want to be a dick.

:

00:57:55,607 --> 00:57:59,157

He wants to trust his wife, but at

the same time he flat out asks her,

:

00:58:00,027 --> 00:58:01,407

well, are you attracted to him?

:

00:58:01,447 --> 00:58:03,177

Her answer is, I don't know.

:

00:58:04,152 --> 00:58:04,532

The fuck?

:

00:58:07,992 --> 00:58:10,522

I actually, I think I said that

when I was sitting in my recliner.

:

00:58:10,812 --> 00:58:13,242

When she said that and I got

a drink in my hand, I almost

:

00:58:13,272 --> 00:58:14,822

literally said out loud, The fuck?

:

00:58:15,602 --> 00:58:17,732

Like, what kind of answer is that?

:

00:58:19,582 --> 00:58:19,982

You know?

:

00:58:19,992 --> 00:58:21,142

That's like, did you sleep with her?

:

00:58:21,292 --> 00:58:21,722

Kinda.

:

00:58:22,182 --> 00:58:22,602

Like, what?

:

00:58:23,442 --> 00:58:23,752

Wait, what?

:

00:58:24,382 --> 00:58:26,862

Alright, so By the way, I just

threw that last part in as a joke.

:

00:58:26,902 --> 00:58:30,392

There was no sex between

Hae Sung And, Nora.

:

00:58:30,532 --> 00:58:30,772

Right.

:

00:58:30,802 --> 00:58:31,672

They just had a day date.

:

00:58:31,702 --> 00:58:32,822

They just kind of hung out all day.

:

00:58:33,322 --> 00:58:35,152

It's clear though that Arthur's jealous.

:

00:58:35,182 --> 00:58:36,712

He wears it on his face, right?

:

00:58:36,902 --> 00:58:37,852

All is Lost.

:

00:58:37,932 --> 00:58:39,902

Now this was another one, this

is where the beats get a little

:

00:58:39,902 --> 00:58:41,262

fuzzy in a drama like this.

:

00:58:41,782 --> 00:58:47,522

But again, first time, first screenplay

by this writer, first time director.

:

00:58:47,832 --> 00:58:52,532

You know, I don't know if she's

knowledgeable in Blake Snyder's

:

00:58:52,552 --> 00:58:53,582

Save the Cat beat sheets.

:

00:58:54,302 --> 00:58:55,872

Maybe we should email this to her.

:

00:58:56,182 --> 00:59:00,682

But the best I come up with for All

is Lost, and it is kind of a hard

:

00:59:00,682 --> 00:59:05,087

moment for Arthur, is when they're

in bed together and he tells her Did

:

00:59:05,087 --> 00:59:08,667

you know that when you talk in your

sleep, you speak Korean in your sleep?

:

00:59:09,467 --> 00:59:12,937

And she, and, and she's surprised by that.

:

00:59:12,967 --> 00:59:13,287

Right.

:

00:59:13,287 --> 00:59:14,007

She's like, I do.

:

00:59:14,347 --> 00:59:15,207

And he's like, yeah.

:

00:59:15,457 --> 00:59:19,277

And it's almost like he laughs it off at

first, but you can tell that this bothers

:

00:59:19,277 --> 00:59:25,427

him because what is it really saying that

when she's dreaming, she's dreaming about.

:

00:59:25,937 --> 00:59:27,177

Life and soul.

:

00:59:27,647 --> 00:59:29,987

Life with possibly Hae Sung.

:

00:59:30,727 --> 00:59:33,267

He's the Americanized version of her.

:

00:59:34,237 --> 00:59:37,727

So, is she just representing

that when she's awake?

:

00:59:37,767 --> 00:59:38,457

Because?

:

00:59:38,997 --> 00:59:40,617

And when she goes to sleep

at night, that's when she

:

00:59:40,617 --> 00:59:41,927

dreams about her real love?

:

00:59:42,517 --> 00:59:44,947

And of course he can't understand

anything she's saying because

:

00:59:44,947 --> 00:59:46,187

he doesn't speak Korean.

:

00:59:46,597 --> 00:59:49,497

So he's worried that she could

be fucking having an orgasmic

:

00:59:49,497 --> 00:59:51,617

dream, and he wouldn't even know!

:

00:59:52,347 --> 00:59:53,797

So it's obviously bothersome for him.

:

00:59:54,147 --> 00:59:56,777

So, and again the idea of IGN comes up,

:

00:59:56,987 --> 01:00:02,597

Chris: but again, between the, between her

and her husband having this conversation,

:

01:00:02,597 --> 01:00:05,517

I appreciated just the honesty.

:

01:00:05,727 --> 01:00:06,387

Jerome: Absolutely.

:

01:00:06,537 --> 01:00:06,837

You know?

:

01:00:06,837 --> 01:00:07,287

Absolutely.

:

01:00:07,292 --> 01:00:09,117

Because he was man, and

that was an American woman.

:

01:00:09,297 --> 01:00:09,597

Yeah.

:

01:00:10,142 --> 01:00:14,532

Not to, I'm gonna get hate email now,

but not to bash American women, but

:

01:00:14,542 --> 01:00:20,542

generally, I would imagine that a lot of

these conversations would be met with,

:

01:00:20,902 --> 01:00:23,782

Oh, you got nothing to worry about,

everything's fine, no I don't find him

:

01:00:23,782 --> 01:00:25,402

attractive, as she takes her pants off.

:

01:00:25,682 --> 01:00:30,112

Like, you know, like, just,

you fear dishonesty in American

:

01:00:30,112 --> 01:00:31,382

society, let's put it that way.

:

01:00:31,472 --> 01:00:31,842

Yeah.

:

01:00:31,872 --> 01:00:35,552

Where it seems like her upbringing

is I'll be completely honest with

:

01:00:35,552 --> 01:00:37,012

you no matter how hurtful it is.

:

01:00:37,022 --> 01:00:43,792

Chris: Yeah, and I felt like by watching

this unfold he, he, he believed that about

:

01:00:43,802 --> 01:00:51,702

her and he respected that and he, he, I

guess, met it with his own vulnerability

:

01:00:52,002 --> 01:00:57,472

and his own honesty and in sharing that,

that thing about her speak, you know,

:

01:00:57,482 --> 01:00:59,992

speaking in Korean in her, in her dreams.

:

01:01:01,222 --> 01:01:04,132

I found it very, very

vulnerable and, and really.

:

01:01:04,547 --> 01:01:05,407

Kind of heartwarming.

:

01:01:05,407 --> 01:01:11,227

That's he's like this is such a huge part

of her I want to learn how to speak Korean

:

01:01:11,227 --> 01:01:16,647

myself just to be able to bond with her

even more I thought that was really cool,

:

01:01:16,677 --> 01:01:19,587

Jerome: which is interesting

because my first take on that

:

01:01:19,707 --> 01:01:21,147

Chris: so he would understand her

:

01:01:21,177 --> 01:01:23,257

Jerome: So he knows what the

fuck's going on like that.

:

01:01:23,457 --> 01:01:23,767

All right

:

01:01:24,767 --> 01:01:26,397

Chris: The way it was talked about though.

:

01:01:26,397 --> 01:01:27,587

It didn't have that air

:

01:01:27,587 --> 01:01:30,147

Jerome: Ladies, since it seemed

like I was attacking you a

:

01:01:30,147 --> 01:01:32,032

second ago I'll attack myself.

:

01:01:32,232 --> 01:01:34,352

I live in the world of

jealousy and bitterness.

:

01:01:35,032 --> 01:01:36,242

I live in California.

:

01:01:36,672 --> 01:01:37,172

Okay.

:

01:01:37,482 --> 01:01:40,662

So my thought when I first heard that

was yeah, he wants to know what the fuck

:

01:01:40,662 --> 01:01:41,822

they're saying That's what he wants.

:

01:01:41,842 --> 01:01:43,492

Chris: I'm in the wholesome midwest.

:

01:01:43,512 --> 01:01:48,262

Jerome: Yes Wholesome bible belt

northern bible belt midwest where

:

01:01:48,262 --> 01:01:50,382

everybody's honest with each other Anyway,

:

01:01:50,412 --> 01:01:53,282

Chris: but honestly his character

was rather endearing to me.

:

01:01:53,472 --> 01:01:55,102

I thought yeah, I thought it was good

:

01:01:55,102 --> 01:01:57,642

Jerome: and again, we talked

about perfect casting in the first

:

01:01:57,642 --> 01:01:59,862

movie with with Sandra OhHuller.

:

01:02:00,332 --> 01:02:02,852

Dude, John Magaro's got that face too.

:

01:02:03,232 --> 01:02:03,462

Yeah.

:

01:02:03,512 --> 01:02:07,822

That is wounded, like he, and, and you

know where I recognized him, and we're

:

01:02:07,822 --> 01:02:10,932

gonna talk about this in Six Degrees,

the first time I saw him was Big Short.

:

01:02:11,237 --> 01:02:15,737

Yeah, yeah, and in that movie he

also seems like a guy who wants

:

01:02:15,737 --> 01:02:20,807

to do well and succeed, but he

oh he takes Disappointment hard.

:

01:02:20,877 --> 01:02:21,567

Yeah, you know what I mean?

:

01:02:21,647 --> 01:02:22,777

Yeah, it's nice face.

:

01:02:22,837 --> 01:02:23,737

It's on his face.

:

01:02:23,737 --> 01:02:27,807

He's got that great face that he

can wear happiness and smiles, but

:

01:02:27,807 --> 01:02:32,567

when he's wounded emotionally and

spiritually, he wears it well, dude.

:

01:02:32,857 --> 01:02:35,647

That dude's just, that dude's

just got it when it comes to that.

:

01:02:35,677 --> 01:02:37,887

And it's, and I thought

it was great casting.

:

01:02:37,897 --> 01:02:39,117

Both these films had great casting.

:

01:02:39,467 --> 01:02:39,797

Okay.

:

01:02:39,827 --> 01:02:43,547

So Dark Night of the Soul, because of the

All is Lost, Nora decides to bridge the

:

01:02:43,547 --> 01:02:45,867

two worlds together and have them meet.

:

01:02:46,147 --> 01:02:51,717

She's going to introduce her childhood

friend, who's now a detractive.

:

01:02:51,787 --> 01:02:54,477

Which takes us back to the bar scene

right at the beginning of the film.

:

01:02:54,797 --> 01:02:55,047

Right,

:

01:02:55,047 --> 01:02:55,807

we're not there yet though.

:

01:02:55,937 --> 01:02:56,117

Okay.

:

01:02:56,267 --> 01:02:58,567

So, The Dark Knight of Souls,

her decision to do that.

:

01:02:58,577 --> 01:03:00,907

We're now third version of her world.

:

01:03:01,157 --> 01:03:04,187

Remember, version one, she's

with Hei Sung as children.

:

01:03:04,817 --> 01:03:08,867

Version two, they only see each

other over long distance as adults.

:

01:03:09,077 --> 01:03:12,147

Now, they're back together again.

:

01:03:12,767 --> 01:03:13,487

As adults.

:

01:03:13,547 --> 01:03:13,807

Yep.

:

01:03:14,347 --> 01:03:14,637

Right?

:

01:03:16,227 --> 01:03:17,377

Hae Sung meets Arthur.

:

01:03:17,847 --> 01:03:20,957

New world now as Nora's husband

and long time friend now finally

:

01:03:20,957 --> 01:03:21,807

meet and know each other.

:

01:03:21,817 --> 01:03:22,727

Five point finale.

:

01:03:22,727 --> 01:03:23,117

Here we go.

:

01:03:23,117 --> 01:03:24,347

Very fuzzy and very quick.

:

01:03:24,637 --> 01:03:26,567

Because there's like two

scenes left in this movie.

:

01:03:26,747 --> 01:03:27,007

Right?

:

01:03:27,007 --> 01:03:28,257

It's a fast third act.

:

01:03:28,317 --> 01:03:28,497

Yeah.

:

01:03:28,507 --> 01:03:29,317

Much like Jaws.

:

01:03:29,327 --> 01:03:32,037

Remember we talked about Jaws

has a very fast third act.

:

01:03:32,067 --> 01:03:32,457

Right?

:

01:03:32,737 --> 01:03:34,167

It happens pretty quickly.

:

01:03:34,537 --> 01:03:38,857

Once you reach that all is lost it's like,

you know, heading for the seats almost.

:

01:03:38,857 --> 01:03:40,317

You only got minutes left pretty much.

:

01:03:40,427 --> 01:03:40,707

Right.

:

01:03:40,807 --> 01:03:41,587

Five point finale.

:

01:03:41,587 --> 01:03:42,567

Gathering the team.

:

01:03:42,927 --> 01:03:47,027

The whole group goes to the bar to drink

and talk, and everyone is together.

:

01:03:47,497 --> 01:03:48,467

Execution of the plan.

:

01:03:48,467 --> 01:03:51,957

Hey, Sung, only speaking

in Korean now, mind you.

:

01:03:52,657 --> 01:03:54,407

Now, I don't mean that as a shot at him.

:

01:03:54,417 --> 01:03:56,867

He doesn't speak very good

English, hardly any English, right?

:

01:03:57,067 --> 01:03:58,737

So, that's his only thing he can speak.

:

01:03:58,947 --> 01:04:02,677

Which is ironic, because the

actor Yoo Tae oh in real life

:

01:04:02,997 --> 01:04:04,057

is pretty fluent in English.

:

01:04:04,737 --> 01:04:08,157

So he does a pretty good job

of of, of, when he does attempt

:

01:04:08,167 --> 01:04:10,187

English, he bumbles the words badly.

:

01:04:10,247 --> 01:04:10,997

Right, right, right.

:

01:04:11,007 --> 01:04:12,607

So, so pretty good on his part.

:

01:04:12,727 --> 01:04:15,827

But he's only speaking Korean in this

scene, and he lays out his thoughts

:

01:04:15,827 --> 01:04:18,087

and opinions about their destiny.

:

01:04:18,377 --> 01:04:21,267

What would have happened if we had

done this and we had done that?

:

01:04:21,367 --> 01:04:23,807

Here comes that spiritual

goal coming in, right?

:

01:04:23,837 --> 01:04:27,777

About choices and, and decisions,

and when you leave something

:

01:04:27,777 --> 01:04:29,467

behind, you gain something new.

:

01:04:29,747 --> 01:04:32,322

He sung really, really good.

:

01:04:33,062 --> 01:04:36,812

Seemingly wants her to leave her husband

and go with him although he says I'm

:

01:04:36,812 --> 01:04:40,542

glad you met your husband I'm glad you're

happy and the reason he gets to that I

:

01:04:40,542 --> 01:04:41,832

might be jumping ahead of my beats here.

:

01:04:42,072 --> 01:04:44,732

Hightower surprise Yes, okay So he's

laying all that out and Hightower

:

01:04:45,012 --> 01:04:50,142

surprises Nora tells him flat out the

girl you knew no longer exists, right?

:

01:04:50,212 --> 01:04:54,252

So she's telling him right then I see

where you're going on this whole in Yun

:

01:04:54,471 --> 01:04:56,802

destiny speech You got the wrong girl.

:

01:04:58,262 --> 01:04:59,971

That girl was 24 years ago.

:

01:05:00,532 --> 01:05:02,532

Maybe even 12 years ago,

but you fucked that up.

:

01:05:02,742 --> 01:05:02,872

Right.

:

01:05:03,872 --> 01:05:05,932

That girl no longer exists, right?

:

01:05:06,522 --> 01:05:07,462

Dig down deep.

:

01:05:07,982 --> 01:05:10,082

Hae Sung realizes she is gone.

:

01:05:10,552 --> 01:05:12,902

And Nora is happy with Arthur.

:

01:05:13,642 --> 01:05:15,082

He is her Inyun.

:

01:05:15,762 --> 01:05:22,152

And Hae Sung realizes this, execution

of the new plan, he kind of lays off a

:

01:05:22,152 --> 01:05:25,922

little bit on the, we should be together,

not that he ever actually says that,

:

01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:29,852

but he lays off the hint of, we belong

together shit, you know what I mean?

:

01:05:30,252 --> 01:05:33,372

I think he came out of the gate

with that a little hard, a little, a

:

01:05:33,372 --> 01:05:36,272

little hot, he doesn't actually say

leave your husband and go with me.

:

01:05:36,627 --> 01:05:39,127

But he lays it on thick of the destiny.

:

01:05:39,137 --> 01:05:40,667

Shouldn't we have been together?

:

01:05:41,017 --> 01:05:43,167

Seems like we were

supposed to be together.

:

01:05:43,297 --> 01:05:43,967

You know what I mean?

:

01:05:43,967 --> 01:05:47,457

Like, but when she lays it out,

that girl you knew is gone, he

:

01:05:47,457 --> 01:05:48,877

kind of lays off a little bit.

:

01:05:49,367 --> 01:05:55,567

So she, and by the way, which is

interesting that during the dig down

:

01:05:55,567 --> 01:05:59,487

deep and even Hightower surprise moments

where she's basically telling Hae Sung

:

01:06:00,392 --> 01:06:01,982

That, no, I'm not the same person.

:

01:06:02,602 --> 01:06:04,962

There's a couple of shots of Arthur.

:

01:06:06,062 --> 01:06:09,432

He thinks, in his mind,

it's going the other way.

:

01:06:10,192 --> 01:06:11,432

That he's talking her into it.

:

01:06:11,912 --> 01:06:13,062

Because he doesn't know

what they're saying.

:

01:06:13,062 --> 01:06:14,102

They're speaking in Korean.

:

01:06:14,352 --> 01:06:17,221

But he's got that look on his face

like, I feel like a third wheel.

:

01:06:17,772 --> 01:06:20,452

These two are obviously having an

engrossing conversation and I feel

:

01:06:20,452 --> 01:06:21,802

like an asshole sitting over here.

:

01:06:21,962 --> 01:06:22,272

Right.

:

01:06:22,322 --> 01:06:22,432

Right?

:

01:06:22,432 --> 01:06:28,352

He doesn't know that what she is

saying is, I'm with the white dude now.

:

01:06:29,892 --> 01:06:30,352

You know?

:

01:06:30,602 --> 01:06:31,542

You had your shot.

:

01:06:32,052 --> 01:06:32,622

And you missed it.

:

01:06:33,292 --> 01:06:35,632

Right, so he doesn't

know she's saying that.

:

01:06:36,312 --> 01:06:39,221

There is one point where she looks at

him, and they're both smiling, and he,

:

01:06:39,232 --> 01:06:46,042

she says he's talking about you, and

he smiles, almost pathetically, like

:

01:06:46,402 --> 01:06:50,452

tension breaking, almost, like, God,

I hope it's something good, you know,

:

01:06:50,462 --> 01:06:53,522

like I hope you're not gonna be packing

your bags when you get home, you know,

:

01:06:53,532 --> 01:06:58,471

but anyway, so that leads to the climax,

where she walks him to his Uber, mm hmm.

:

01:06:59,232 --> 01:07:01,312

And says her final goodbye.

:

01:07:02,572 --> 01:07:05,292

He mentions about, what

if this was our past life?

:

01:07:05,602 --> 01:07:06,242

You know what I mean?

:

01:07:06,332 --> 01:07:09,332

He's even hinting, again, one last shot.

:

01:07:09,902 --> 01:07:12,932

Is it possible that we're going to

see each other again in the next life?

:

01:07:13,712 --> 01:07:15,282

Are we still in Yoon?

:

01:07:16,072 --> 01:07:16,352

Right.

:

01:07:16,352 --> 01:07:16,772

You know?

:

01:07:17,232 --> 01:07:21,932

But the fact that when he leaves, and she

walks back, and Arthur's outside having a

:

01:07:21,932 --> 01:07:24,692

cigarette, and they hug, and she's crying.

:

01:07:24,702 --> 01:07:25,672

She falls apart.

:

01:07:26,082 --> 01:07:29,372

Let's you know that that was her

saying goodbye to her old life.

:

01:07:29,552 --> 01:07:29,882

Yes.

:

01:07:29,892 --> 01:07:31,782

It was her saying goodbye to Seoul.

:

01:07:31,992 --> 01:07:33,682

Her saying goodbye to South Korea.

:

01:07:33,892 --> 01:07:39,842

Her saying goodbye to To that

thought of, Is Hae Sung my destiny?

:

01:07:39,842 --> 01:07:40,892

She knows now it's over.

:

01:07:40,971 --> 01:07:41,552

It's gone.

:

01:07:42,202 --> 01:07:43,952

By her own hand, of course.

:

01:07:44,292 --> 01:07:45,742

But it's what needed to happen.

:

01:07:45,752 --> 01:07:46,642

She's in love with her husband.

:

01:07:46,792 --> 01:07:47,142

Yeah.

:

01:07:47,252 --> 01:07:48,262

So, he leaves.

:

01:07:48,272 --> 01:07:51,162

And then of course the closing

image, which is a bookend of the

:

01:07:51,162 --> 01:07:54,397

opening image, Hae Sung is now alone.

:

01:07:54,457 --> 01:07:57,617

He's in a car, presumably

driving to the airport.

:

01:07:57,737 --> 01:07:58,057

Right.

:

01:07:58,197 --> 01:08:01,167

And he's like looking out the

window at all the buildings, like,

:

01:08:03,157 --> 01:08:06,247

Do you ever feel smaller than

you do when you're in Manhattan?

:

01:08:07,017 --> 01:08:07,367

You know?

:

01:08:07,727 --> 01:08:11,837

When you just look up and you're like,

Fuuuuck, every building here is bigger

:

01:08:11,837 --> 01:08:14,117

than me, and it goes on for miles!

:

01:08:14,382 --> 01:08:14,742

Right?

:

01:08:14,832 --> 01:08:17,492

He sort of has that look in his eye

when he's looking out the window as

:

01:08:17,492 --> 01:08:21,591

the car is driving and you realize

that he's he's no longer happy.

:

01:08:21,642 --> 01:08:22,572

He's not sad.

:

01:08:22,602 --> 01:08:22,922

Yeah.

:

01:08:22,992 --> 01:08:26,932

But, because he's got some, you know,

some there's some finality to it, right?

:

01:08:26,932 --> 01:08:28,272

Closure is what he got.

:

01:08:28,352 --> 01:08:28,732

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:08:28,782 --> 01:08:33,692

But it's, it's, it's almost like he

has a, a, a sense of, of, of fear

:

01:08:33,732 --> 01:08:35,152

of where's his life gonna go now?

:

01:08:35,152 --> 01:08:37,242

He's only known Nora in his life.

:

01:08:38,227 --> 01:08:38,777

Right?

:

01:08:39,367 --> 01:08:41,886

And this isn't, this isn't a goodbye, man.

:

01:08:42,077 --> 01:08:43,727

That's another reason why she's crying.

:

01:08:44,037 --> 01:08:46,386

This isn't a, hey, thanks for visiting.

:

01:08:46,457 --> 01:08:47,617

I'll write you next Christmas.

:

01:08:47,636 --> 01:08:49,497

This is, you have to go.

:

01:08:49,667 --> 01:08:50,447

Right, right, right.

:

01:08:50,457 --> 01:08:57,506

Because there's no room in my life

for your attempts at our destiny.

:

01:08:57,617 --> 01:08:58,187

Right, right.

:

01:08:58,247 --> 01:08:59,767

We can't really be friends.

:

01:09:00,966 --> 01:09:02,407

So this is it.

:

01:09:02,657 --> 01:09:04,167

And that's why she's crying, right?

:

01:09:04,207 --> 01:09:05,237

Because it's over, over.

:

01:09:05,917 --> 01:09:08,027

Chris: Well, and you really

had it when you said it was

:

01:09:08,077 --> 01:09:10,006

her saying goodbye to Korea.

:

01:09:10,117 --> 01:09:13,417

You know, embracing, you know, this

is her saying goodbye to her old life.

:

01:09:13,807 --> 01:09:17,127

I have a video that I

found it's a YouTube short.

:

01:09:17,127 --> 01:09:21,747

It's like 37 seconds long of the

director talking about the ending.

:

01:09:21,937 --> 01:09:23,636

She basically explains the ending.

:

01:09:23,947 --> 01:09:24,417

Oh, wow.

:

01:09:24,447 --> 01:09:25,417

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

:

01:09:25,716 --> 01:09:27,336

I'll add it to the show notes.

:

01:09:27,417 --> 01:09:31,937

It's really good though, cause

it really, it, Jesse actually,

:

01:09:31,937 --> 01:09:35,937

my wife actually explained it

to me before I found this video.

:

01:09:35,966 --> 01:09:41,397

Cause I was like, I got it, but

her words almost, word for word

:

01:09:41,397 --> 01:09:43,297

is what this, the director said.

:

01:09:43,707 --> 01:09:45,397

It's an immigrant story.

:

01:09:45,437 --> 01:09:49,617

This isn't about Childhood

romance or whatever.

:

01:09:49,836 --> 01:09:50,176

Right.

:

01:09:50,277 --> 01:09:57,167

Her reaction to him leaving at the end

of the movie is her finally grieving

:

01:09:57,177 --> 01:09:59,427

her old life and embracing her new one.

:

01:09:59,577 --> 01:10:04,207

Jerome: Right, she's been hanging on

to Seoul, South Korea for 24 years.

:

01:10:04,207 --> 01:10:04,447

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:10:05,797 --> 01:10:06,687

And I can't imagine.

:

01:10:06,697 --> 01:10:10,697

So, you know, we are, what,

great grandsons or great

:

01:10:10,697 --> 01:10:12,537

great grandsons of immigrants.

:

01:10:12,547 --> 01:10:15,547

It's, you know, it's been several

generations in our family.

:

01:10:15,917 --> 01:10:16,217

Yeah.

:

01:10:16,237 --> 01:10:20,677

So, I don't know what that experience is

like, you know, going to another country.

:

01:10:20,697 --> 01:10:21,037

There you go.

:

01:10:21,492 --> 01:10:22,222

Jerome: Lightsaber time.

:

01:10:24,942 --> 01:10:29,302

Chris: But yeah, so, to take a

serious moment and add some levity.

:

01:10:29,592 --> 01:10:33,442

But no, for real, I mean, I can't

imagine how hard that would be to leave

:

01:10:34,102 --> 01:10:39,222

a country where all your people are

from and go to and establish a new life.

:

01:10:39,502 --> 01:10:43,442

And so, I thought that last scene

kind of made the movie for me.

:

01:10:43,452 --> 01:10:47,792

Cause the whole time, I was battling

with and I think it was the trailers,

:

01:10:47,792 --> 01:10:52,762

like I said at the beginning I thought

it was a romance about, you know, an old

:

01:10:52,762 --> 01:10:54,972

romance that didn't, you know, whatever.

:

01:10:55,292 --> 01:10:57,212

But it, that's really

not what it was about.

:

01:10:57,212 --> 01:10:58,962

It was a, it was an immigrant story.

:

01:10:59,012 --> 01:11:02,842

And they, and in hindsight now

looking back at the, at the

:

01:11:02,842 --> 01:11:04,762

movie, I was like, Oh, yeah.

:

01:11:04,842 --> 01:11:06,852

I could, you could see,

you see it throughout now.

:

01:11:07,147 --> 01:11:08,227

Jerome: Yeah, I mean, definitely.

:

01:11:08,227 --> 01:11:10,017

I think that's why she cries at the end.

:

01:11:10,047 --> 01:11:17,117

I thought you could do one of my, of

course but maybes, a 75 25 at this movie.

:

01:11:17,607 --> 01:11:22,337

If you cut out the last bookend

of him in the car, and as she

:

01:11:22,337 --> 01:11:27,567

cries, and he's walking her up,

you could have played with, is she

:

01:11:27,567 --> 01:11:28,797

going up there to pack her bags?

:

01:11:29,347 --> 01:11:31,847

But, but, I wouldn't have

liked it nearly as much.

:

01:11:32,677 --> 01:11:36,057

I like the finality where she had to

say goodbye and her language throughout

:

01:11:36,077 --> 01:11:41,127

at the bar and on the street are

laced with this is it, it's over.

:

01:11:41,217 --> 01:11:44,447

So it wouldn't make any sense for

there to be an ambiguous ending

:

01:11:44,447 --> 01:11:46,897

of, oh, is she going up there

to tell her, Arthur, it's over.

:

01:11:47,187 --> 01:11:48,777

She's got to pack her

bags and go with Hae Sung.

:

01:11:49,127 --> 01:11:52,377

So I think the first half of the

movie, you think maybe that will happen

:

01:11:52,377 --> 01:11:53,547

that they'll end up with each other.

:

01:11:53,897 --> 01:11:58,107

But when Arthur comes in, like after that,

she's, she's moving on with her life.

:

01:11:58,122 --> 01:11:58,812

Right, right.

:

01:11:58,862 --> 01:12:02,132

So, you know, tangible goal, she

wanted to get UNG to New York and she

:

01:12:02,132 --> 01:12:03,452

got that halfway through the film.

:

01:12:04,012 --> 01:12:04,762

She accomplished that.

:

01:12:04,762 --> 01:12:07,702

The midpoint, the spiritual

goal was to realize that her

:

01:12:07,702 --> 01:12:09,922

in Yon was Arthur, not ung.

:

01:12:10,362 --> 01:12:13,092

Now if you had told her, remember we talk

about character development and growth.

:

01:12:13,092 --> 01:12:16,422

If you would've told her at the

beginning of the movie, your in Yon

:

01:12:16,422 --> 01:12:19,182

your Destiny, the person you're gonna

spend the rest of your life with is

:

01:12:19,182 --> 01:12:22,542

some white dude from frigging New

York . She would've been like, what?

:

01:12:22,602 --> 01:12:23,112

No, it's not.

:

01:12:23,112 --> 01:12:23,802

It's hey song.

:

01:12:24,382 --> 01:12:25,362

It's supposed to be with

a song my whole life.

:

01:12:25,402 --> 01:12:25,902

You know what I mean?

:

01:12:26,112 --> 01:12:27,962

Like, so, she had to learn that lesson.

:

01:12:28,262 --> 01:12:29,182

Alright, couple of quick things.

:

01:12:29,182 --> 01:12:30,382

So, some cool things here.

:

01:12:31,642 --> 01:12:36,042

After Nora ends things, when she like

breaks up with him over FaceTime and he

:

01:12:36,042 --> 01:12:41,562

goes drinking, One of the friends says,

If Heisung says we drink, we drink.

:

01:12:43,262 --> 01:12:47,532

Why that's funny, is I want to get that

on a hat or a t shirt or something.

:

01:12:48,752 --> 01:12:50,862

I want, and see if anybody notes that.

:

01:12:51,067 --> 01:12:52,777

That's the reference, if

anybody knows what it is.

:

01:12:52,897 --> 01:12:56,307

I wanna get a t shirt that says, if

Hae Sung says we drink, we drink.

:

01:12:56,387 --> 01:13:00,877

Chris: Hey, this, this, this is actually

an idea I had like a year and a half ago.

:

01:13:01,217 --> 01:13:06,877

We get a famous movie quote, that has

something to do with drinking, and we put

:

01:13:06,877 --> 01:13:09,087

the silver screen happy hour logo on it.

:

01:13:09,087 --> 01:13:09,387

Jerome: Fuck yeah!

:

01:13:11,827 --> 01:13:13,827

We don't have to copyright

lines of dialogue, right?

:

01:13:13,827 --> 01:13:14,727

It's happy hour!

:

01:13:14,927 --> 01:13:15,957

Exactly!

:

01:13:15,957 --> 01:13:16,217

Alright.

:

01:13:16,217 --> 01:13:16,477

Alright.

:

01:13:16,477 --> 01:13:16,817

Alright.

:

01:13:17,717 --> 01:13:21,327

So, another thing, there's a great shot of

Nora on her last day of school as a child.

:

01:13:21,497 --> 01:13:25,107

She starts to walk up the stairs,

and he's walking straight.

:

01:13:25,307 --> 01:13:28,627

And it's like, you can see them

splitting as they're walking.

:

01:13:28,917 --> 01:13:29,147

Right?

:

01:13:29,197 --> 01:13:31,007

And it's a great shot of them from behind.

:

01:13:31,047 --> 01:13:31,867

Right, right, right.

:

01:13:32,037 --> 01:13:33,827

And it's a great shot

the way that was shot.

:

01:13:34,157 --> 01:13:35,007

Okay, some trivia.

:

01:13:35,457 --> 01:13:40,007

So John Magaro and Yoo Teo

didn't meet prior to their

:

01:13:40,007 --> 01:13:42,337

first scene together on screen.

:

01:13:42,897 --> 01:13:43,827

That was the first time they met.

:

01:13:43,937 --> 01:13:45,097

They didn't never met before.

:

01:13:45,457 --> 01:13:49,867

The director purposely did this so

that their awkwardness would feel real.

:

01:13:49,867 --> 01:13:50,227

Yeah.

:

01:13:50,577 --> 01:13:50,997

That's great.

:

01:13:51,047 --> 01:13:54,367

Some of the storylines are

autobiographical as writer director

:

01:13:54,367 --> 01:13:58,757

Celine Song, also moved from Korea

to Canada, later settled in the U.

:

01:13:58,757 --> 01:14:01,407

S., started playwriting,

and married a writer.

:

01:14:01,427 --> 01:14:01,647

Hmm.

:

01:14:02,402 --> 01:14:05,682

In the climax, the two main characters,

oh this is an interesting one, this

:

01:14:05,682 --> 01:14:09,712

is a director's thing, I know this

is a writing podcast, but directors,

:

01:14:09,732 --> 01:14:11,172

think about this, this is also cool.

:

01:14:11,702 --> 01:14:16,382

In the climax, the two main characters

are walking right to left, right?

:

01:14:16,652 --> 01:14:18,112

As she's walking him to the Uber.

:

01:14:18,972 --> 01:14:22,602

Now, The way we read, like,

particularly in English, now I know

:

01:14:22,602 --> 01:14:24,692

in, in Asian it's up and down, right?

:

01:14:24,692 --> 01:14:25,592

It's, it's up down.

:

01:14:25,592 --> 01:14:26,982

It depends on the Asian country.

:

01:14:27,162 --> 01:14:28,002

Okay, okay.

:

01:14:28,062 --> 01:14:30,462

But, but in America,

we read left to right.

:

01:14:30,492 --> 01:14:30,732

Right.

:

01:14:31,182 --> 01:14:34,402

In film, I learned this in directing

class at film school, Columbia

:

01:14:34,402 --> 01:14:35,792

College Chicago, shout out!

:

01:14:36,232 --> 01:14:38,952

They teach you that the

dominance is on the left.

:

01:14:40,217 --> 01:14:41,837

Because that's where you start reading.

:

01:14:41,837 --> 01:14:43,377

If you were going to read,

you start to the left.

:

01:14:43,397 --> 01:14:44,517

That's the dominant side.

:

01:14:44,837 --> 01:14:49,257

So, to be walking So, and natural

progression is left to right.

:

01:14:49,377 --> 01:14:54,317

So, to be going the other way signifies

With the camera, that she's, they're

:

01:14:54,317 --> 01:14:56,037

walking towards the past, right?

:

01:14:56,197 --> 01:14:57,497

They're walking towards the past.

:

01:14:57,657 --> 01:15:02,397

And when she lets him go, she walks back

the other way alone, towards her future.

:

01:15:02,447 --> 01:15:02,827

Yeah.

:

01:15:03,047 --> 01:15:05,127

Directors use this technique

for this being her first film.

:

01:15:05,127 --> 01:15:06,267

That is something because,

:

01:15:07,247 --> 01:15:10,837

Chris: when they first started

walking, like she's taking him to

:

01:15:10,837 --> 01:15:12,327

his Uber, the Uber wasn't there yet.

:

01:15:12,737 --> 01:15:14,047

Why didn't they just stand right there?

:

01:15:14,547 --> 01:15:17,067

Jerome: Right, so it's a director's

choice to do this on purpose.

:

01:15:17,107 --> 01:15:17,827

Yeah, 100%.

:

01:15:17,827 --> 01:15:23,407

To give you another perfect example, this

technique was done in Braveheart, and I

:

01:15:23,407 --> 01:15:27,127

want to say it was the Battle of Falkirk

where they're completely outmatched.

:

01:15:27,967 --> 01:15:30,927

The Scots are on the

right side of the frame.

:

01:15:31,127 --> 01:15:32,667

Because they're the smaller army, right?

:

01:15:32,717 --> 01:15:35,457

And the big, bad English

army is on the right side.

:

01:15:35,567 --> 01:15:36,287

On the left side.

:

01:15:36,667 --> 01:15:40,707

When the battle starts, while the

battle's going on, and blood's being

:

01:15:40,707 --> 01:15:44,287

shed, and body parts are flying,

you'll notice that it starts to shift.

:

01:15:44,887 --> 01:15:47,957

To where all of a sudden, the Scots

are on the left side of the frame.

:

01:15:48,167 --> 01:15:52,307

And it ends with where, if you remember

that shot, I'm sure you do, of Mel

:

01:15:52,307 --> 01:15:56,527

Gibson, where he's got the sword up,

and he's like, He's standing completely

:

01:15:56,527 --> 01:15:57,557

on the left side of the frame.

:

01:15:57,637 --> 01:15:58,527

Nice, yeah.

:

01:15:58,537 --> 01:15:58,827

Right?

:

01:15:58,837 --> 01:16:00,737

So the dominance has shifted.

:

01:16:00,807 --> 01:16:01,227

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:16:01,277 --> 01:16:05,317

And, and filmmakers use the camera to

tell stories like that, and she does it

:

01:16:05,317 --> 01:16:09,507

here on her first film, she uses it in

the climax, which I thought was brilliant.

:

01:16:09,547 --> 01:16:11,647

Yeah, And I thought it was

a, it was a great touch.

:

01:16:11,987 --> 01:16:14,277

Okay, that's all I got if you

want to jump to six degrees.

:

01:16:14,767 --> 01:16:15,457

Chris: Yeah, let's do it.

:

01:16:15,497 --> 01:16:16,617

This, this was funny.

:

01:16:16,627 --> 01:16:20,587

So, remember, you messaged

me last night, and I wake up

:

01:16:20,727 --> 01:16:22,327

Jerome: Go ahead and tell

them what I text you!

:

01:16:23,317 --> 01:16:27,077

Chris: Well, you text me last night,

and I wake up at 3:30 this morning,

:

01:16:27,807 --> 01:16:31,947

half asleep, looking at my phone,

going, Oh, God, six degrees, I forgot.

:

01:16:31,962 --> 01:16:33,632

So I'm like, okay, well,

:

01:16:33,632 --> 01:16:35,032

Jerome: no, note to our listeners.

:

01:16:35,532 --> 01:16:38,082

My brother often procrastinates

this fucking thing.

:

01:16:38,312 --> 01:16:41,342

And I always text in the day before,

don't forget about six degrees.

:

01:16:41,342 --> 01:16:42,532

Don't forget about six degrees.

:

01:16:42,712 --> 01:16:45,392

Don't wait till we're on air

and then fucking hit me with it.

:

01:16:45,652 --> 01:16:46,242

Chris: I sent you.

:

01:16:46,242 --> 01:16:53,362

So I respond to you at 3 52 AM and

with, with the two, basically it's the

:

01:16:53,362 --> 01:16:56,172

two, two kids from both movies, right?

:

01:16:56,222 --> 01:16:57,892

The, the female Version.

:

01:16:57,892 --> 01:16:58,342

Jerome: The young.

:

01:16:58,342 --> 01:16:59,212

The young Nora.

:

01:16:59,392 --> 01:17:02,277

Chris: The young Nora, and

and then and the young boy.

:

01:17:02,337 --> 01:17:02,787

The, the

:

01:17:02,787 --> 01:17:04,257

son in the, the blind.

:

01:17:04,257 --> 01:17:04,707

Daniel.

:

01:17:04,707 --> 01:17:04,797

Yes.

:

01:17:04,802 --> 01:17:05,757

Jerome: The blind son, Daniel.

:

01:17:05,762 --> 01:17:06,597

So what are their names?

:

01:17:07,107 --> 01:17:15,567

Chris: Milo, ma, Machado, Machado,

grander, greener, greener and Moons.

:

01:17:15,687 --> 01:17:15,747

S.

:

01:17:17,577 --> 01:17:18,247

Is that how you say it?

:

01:17:18,307 --> 01:17:19,077

Moonsung a?

:

01:17:20,027 --> 01:17:21,507

And I said, good luck.

:

01:17:23,287 --> 01:17:27,797

Because both of them are, they're young

actors, only been in a few things in

:

01:17:27,797 --> 01:17:30,297

foreign countries, in foreign films.

:

01:17:30,877 --> 01:17:31,707

Jerome: And what did I respond?

:

01:17:32,277 --> 01:17:32,927

Chris: Fuck...

:

01:17:33,932 --> 01:17:34,532

you!

:

01:17:36,902 --> 01:17:39,932

Jerome: With intentional

spaces in between two words.

:

01:17:39,992 --> 01:17:40,291

Chris: Yes.

:

01:17:40,592 --> 01:17:45,522

But I actually said this, this one

might prove that you actually cannot

:

01:17:45,522 --> 01:17:48,072

connect all actors through six degrees.

:

01:17:48,162 --> 01:17:49,062

Jerome: And it might have.

:

01:17:49,152 --> 01:17:53,162

It might have because if we use

the actual game as it is, it works.

:

01:17:53,312 --> 01:17:54,962

We usually self restrict ourselves.

:

01:17:54,992 --> 01:17:55,202

Yeah.

:

01:17:55,202 --> 01:17:56,222

We make it harder.

:

01:17:56,472 --> 01:17:59,072

We make it harder, we say you can't use

the movies that we're talking about.

:

01:17:59,072 --> 01:18:00,192

But I have to today!

:

01:18:00,322 --> 01:18:01,782

I have to use one of them at least.

:

01:18:01,962 --> 01:18:03,942

I don't have to use both, but

I have to use one of them.

:

01:18:04,192 --> 01:18:05,232

But it does work.

:

01:18:05,232 --> 01:18:11,212

So Milo Machado Grainer, who plays

young blind son Daniel in Anatomy of a

:

01:18:11,212 --> 01:18:13,982

Fall, was, like, only one other movie.

:

01:18:13,982 --> 01:18:16,502

He's only got, like, two

movies on his entire roster.

:

01:18:16,722 --> 01:18:17,562

Two or three.

:

01:18:18,162 --> 01:18:21,232

And, like you said,

they're all in overseas.

:

01:18:21,232 --> 01:18:22,172

Yeah, they're all French films.

:

01:18:22,587 --> 01:18:25,037

He was in a movie called

Waiting for Bojangles.

:

01:18:26,137 --> 01:18:29,687

In that movie is an an

actor that I don't know.

:

01:18:30,157 --> 01:18:31,547

His name is Romain Duris?

:

01:18:31,547 --> 01:18:33,437

Duris, maybe?

:

01:18:33,807 --> 01:18:38,007

He was in the Three Musketeers Part

One da Oregon, I guess is a trilogy?

:

01:18:38,627 --> 01:18:40,527

But in that movie, thank God!

:

01:18:41,027 --> 01:18:44,907

Is Vincent Castle, who is a

French actor, but is in a lot of

:

01:18:44,907 --> 01:18:46,757

mainstream American films as well.

:

01:18:46,916 --> 01:18:51,687

He's got probably a long shitload resume

in France, but he's also got a pretty

:

01:18:51,687 --> 01:18:53,347

good impressive resume in America.

:

01:18:53,416 --> 01:18:53,637

Yeah.

:

01:18:53,647 --> 01:18:56,166

One of his American films is Oceans 12.

:

01:18:56,207 --> 01:18:56,647

Yes.

:

01:18:57,197 --> 01:18:58,497

With There's your There it

:

01:18:58,617 --> 01:18:58,916

is!

:

01:18:59,137 --> 01:19:00,077

So what's that?

:

01:19:00,077 --> 01:19:00,647

We're at three

:

01:19:00,647 --> 01:19:01,067

right now, right?

:

01:19:01,077 --> 01:19:02,027

That's three right there.

:

01:19:02,027 --> 01:19:03,117

Waiting for Bojangles.

:

01:19:03,127 --> 01:19:04,317

The Three Musketeers.

:

01:19:04,367 --> 01:19:06,437

And not the Three Musketeers

that you're thinking of.

:

01:19:06,757 --> 01:19:09,837

It's some French one

called Part One to Ardigan.

:

01:19:10,227 --> 01:19:12,907

It's not the Three Musketeers with

fuckin Oliver Platt and Kiefer

:

01:19:12,907 --> 01:19:13,897

Sutherland and all those guys.

:

01:19:14,067 --> 01:19:15,657

Anyway, so, so yeah.

:

01:19:15,657 --> 01:19:16,307

So Ocean's Twelve.

:

01:19:16,317 --> 01:19:17,627

That's three connections right there.

:

01:19:18,277 --> 01:19:19,467

Vincent Castles and Ocean's Twelve.

:

01:19:19,467 --> 01:19:22,797

With Brad Pitt, who's in the

big short with John Magaro.

:

01:19:23,297 --> 01:19:27,977

Who's in, with John Magaro, who's

in Past Lives with Moon Soong, ah.

:

01:19:28,217 --> 01:19:29,737

So, I had to use Past Lives.

:

01:19:30,327 --> 01:19:32,977

I try, I'll give you,

I'll give you some credit.

:

01:19:33,017 --> 01:19:36,697

I Trietd to do it without using

Past Lives or Anatomy of Fall.

:

01:19:36,967 --> 01:19:38,877

And I got fucking nowhere.

:

01:19:39,027 --> 01:19:40,687

Like, they were like on

two different continents.

:

01:19:40,977 --> 01:19:44,047

Chris: Yeah, it might be

possible, but man, that's tough.

:

01:19:44,147 --> 01:19:46,977

Jerome: All their work they did

was in two different continents.

:

01:19:47,027 --> 01:19:48,487

A world away from each other.

:

01:19:48,497 --> 01:19:50,027

Chris: Right, that was a good challenge.

:

01:19:50,166 --> 01:19:52,227

I mean, to really see if this was gonna

:

01:19:52,647 --> 01:19:53,707

Jerome: That was a hard one, man.

:

01:19:54,712 --> 01:20:01,622

And it made me think, I remember

thinking, you know what, this whole

:

01:20:01,622 --> 01:20:06,622

time we say that every two actors can

be connected, we've always, always been

:

01:20:06,642 --> 01:20:08,732

arrogantly referring to American films.

:

01:20:08,942 --> 01:20:11,002

We almost never talk about foreign films.

:

01:20:11,352 --> 01:20:15,492

And now our biggest challenge was always,

we always said Charlie Chaplin at Caratop.

:

01:20:15,541 --> 01:20:17,692

Our biggest challenge

always seemed to be time.

:

01:20:18,377 --> 01:20:22,097

But American films, but if you're

pulling something from like the

:

01:20:22,097 --> 01:20:26,207

:

impressive, but it was in America.

:

01:20:26,907 --> 01:20:33,107

We never thought to start pulling fucking

South Korean films and French films,

:

01:20:33,107 --> 01:20:34,887

and that fucking raises the stakes.

:

01:20:34,887 --> 01:20:39,027

Chris: Do you think it'd be easier

or harder if we went Charlie Chaplin

:

01:20:39,027 --> 01:20:40,747

to any one of these two actors?

:

01:20:40,747 --> 01:20:43,467

Jerome: It ain't gonna be in six.

:

01:20:44,932 --> 01:20:48,912

Chris: Well, I mean, you got, you

got a couple american films in there.

:

01:20:48,912 --> 01:20:49,382

You know what?

:

01:20:49,412 --> 01:20:50,932

Jerome: Thank God for Vincent Castle.

:

01:20:50,942 --> 01:20:51,272

Yeah.

:

01:20:51,282 --> 01:20:52,782

Because you can connect him.

:

01:20:52,812 --> 01:20:55,532

And, and that's what I was looking

for, was somebody like that.

:

01:20:55,532 --> 01:20:57,982

When you first laid out that

challenge, I'm like, tell me there's

:

01:20:57,982 --> 01:21:01,912

a background actor, a supporting

role, that's, that's done both, right?

:

01:21:01,932 --> 01:21:05,072

That is big in Europe,

but also big in America.

:

01:21:05,072 --> 01:21:06,112

You know, like, give me that one.

:

01:21:06,222 --> 01:21:08,732

Give me a Gerard Depardieu

in there somewhere, you know?

:

01:21:09,102 --> 01:21:10,062

And I, there was nobody.

:

01:21:10,177 --> 01:21:11,137

Fucking nobody.

:

01:21:11,166 --> 01:21:13,837

Like, I was just like, I've

never heard of these people.

:

01:21:13,997 --> 01:21:18,137

And, and particularly, like,

I went through Anatomy of a

:

01:21:18,137 --> 01:21:19,377

Fall, which is the French film.

:

01:21:19,447 --> 01:21:19,677

Yeah.

:

01:21:19,687 --> 01:21:24,427

When I went through a Moon,

Moon Seung Ah's film history.

:

01:21:24,537 --> 01:21:24,857

Yeah.

:

01:21:25,257 --> 01:21:27,387

The film she was in, which

is very little as well.

:

01:21:27,837 --> 01:21:29,337

They're all South Korea!

:

01:21:29,367 --> 01:21:29,677

Yeah.

:

01:21:29,707 --> 01:21:31,827

There is nobody in there I even heard of!

:

01:21:33,642 --> 01:21:36,532

I'm like, this is not, I

have to use past lives.

:

01:21:36,552 --> 01:21:37,422

I have to use past lives.

:

01:21:37,762 --> 01:21:39,432

It's the only film where I know somebody.

:

01:21:39,482 --> 01:21:39,932

Yeah.

:

01:21:40,522 --> 01:21:41,012

So it was tough.

:

01:21:41,442 --> 01:21:42,082

Definitely tough.

:

01:21:42,112 --> 01:21:42,882

Good challenge.

:

01:21:42,912 --> 01:21:43,852

Good pick this time.

:

01:21:44,112 --> 01:21:45,445

But don't do that to me again, please.

:

01:21:45,445 --> 01:21:47,312

That was, that was fucking.

:

01:21:47,312 --> 01:21:47,382

Chris: No.

:

01:21:47,602 --> 01:21:49,782

I mean, the challenge isn't Stump Jerome.

:

01:21:49,782 --> 01:21:50,182

It's to see.

:

01:21:50,192 --> 01:21:50,522

Jerome: Right.

:

01:21:50,602 --> 01:21:52,082

It's to see if it can be done.

:

01:21:52,102 --> 01:21:52,252

Yeah.

:

01:21:52,602 --> 01:21:53,612

Chris: So, well done.

:

01:21:53,662 --> 01:21:54,302

That was fun.

:

01:21:55,032 --> 01:21:57,582

Jerome: Alright, so part

one of our Oscar series.

:

01:21:57,582 --> 01:21:58,162

What'd you think?

:

01:21:58,192 --> 01:21:58,622

Pretty good.

:

01:21:58,642 --> 01:21:59,592

These are two good movies.

:

01:21:59,592 --> 01:22:00,242

Chris: Yeah, this is fun.

:

01:22:00,242 --> 01:22:00,291

Fun.

:

01:22:00,291 --> 01:22:05,041

And, you know, I mean, do I think either

of these are going to win Best Picture?

:

01:22:05,041 --> 01:22:05,662

I doubt it.

:

01:22:06,222 --> 01:22:11,032

I, there's some other big movies that

we're gonna tackle next or upcoming,

:

01:22:11,032 --> 01:22:15,142

so, I'm looking forward to those,

but Worthy, worthy nominations.

:

01:22:15,182 --> 01:22:17,112

I mean, they were, you know, well done.

:

01:22:17,112 --> 01:22:19,192

Jerome: I think, I think

Past Lives is a good film.

:

01:22:19,222 --> 01:22:23,082

I still don't know if it needs to be in

the Best Picture, if this is only, if the

:

01:22:23,082 --> 01:22:27,182

Best Picture race is back down to only

five films, Past Lives ain't getting in.

:

01:22:27,482 --> 01:22:29,312

But then again, probably

neither is Anatomy of a Fall.

:

01:22:29,362 --> 01:22:30,222

Well, maybe, I don't know.

:

01:22:30,442 --> 01:22:31,282

I don't know, maybe.

:

01:22:31,742 --> 01:22:32,702

But, but

:

01:22:32,702 --> 01:22:34,382

Chris: Do they still do Best Foreign Film?

:

01:22:34,842 --> 01:22:36,182

Jerome: Yeah, they still

have International Film.

:

01:22:36,372 --> 01:22:40,842

So, you know what, Past Lives wasn't

nominated, but I think, I don't

:

01:22:40,842 --> 01:22:43,192

know if one of these other ones are.

:

01:22:43,502 --> 01:22:46,222

They have to be, to meet the

criteria, I think it's not just

:

01:22:46,222 --> 01:22:49,752

your country of origin, I think you

have to have a certain percentage

:

01:22:49,752 --> 01:22:52,182

of cast and crew are from there.

:

01:22:52,467 --> 01:22:55,267

And the language has to be a certain

percentage in another language.

:

01:22:55,477 --> 01:22:57,807

So I don't know what the

qualifications are, I'll be honest.

:

01:22:58,487 --> 01:23:00,787

I'd have to look at it

and then get back to you.

:

01:23:01,077 --> 01:23:04,357

But but neither one of them I think

are nominated for that, are they?

:

01:23:04,897 --> 01:23:08,077

Anatomy of the Fall has

five Oscar nominations.

:

01:23:08,317 --> 01:23:14,602

I would think that if Best International

Foreign Film was one of them That

:

01:23:14,602 --> 01:23:16,272

would be one of the five, right?

:

01:23:16,272 --> 01:23:17,432

But I don't think it is.

:

01:23:17,432 --> 01:23:17,622

All right.

:

01:23:17,622 --> 01:23:17,982

Here it is.

:

01:23:17,982 --> 01:23:18,602

I have it right here.

:

01:23:18,602 --> 01:23:20,652

So it's nominated for five Oscars.

:

01:23:20,932 --> 01:23:27,512

They are best picture of the

year, best actress, best director,

:

01:23:27,812 --> 01:23:29,642

best screenplay and best editing.

:

01:23:29,642 --> 01:23:31,312

So it's not up for best foreign film.

:

01:23:31,552 --> 01:23:33,722

So does that mean it wasn't eligible?

:

01:23:34,342 --> 01:23:37,082

Or does that mean that there

are five other foreign films

:

01:23:37,082 --> 01:23:38,532

that are even better than that?

:

01:23:38,932 --> 01:23:39,291

I don't know.

:

01:23:40,052 --> 01:23:40,462

I don't know.

:

01:23:40,791 --> 01:23:42,582

Past lives also didn't get

nominated for best foreign

:

01:23:42,582 --> 01:23:44,032

film, but remember past lives.

:

01:23:44,416 --> 01:23:46,427

The whole second half of the film

takes place in New York City.

:

01:23:46,567 --> 01:23:46,947

Mm hmm.

:

01:23:47,166 --> 01:23:47,497

Right?

:

01:23:47,517 --> 01:23:48,117

Yeah, that's true.

:

01:23:48,127 --> 01:23:51,107

So, I don't know if you're gonna

get away with saying Past Lives

:

01:23:51,107 --> 01:23:52,597

is a foreign film, technically.

:

01:23:52,907 --> 01:23:53,117

That's true.

:

01:23:53,127 --> 01:23:55,027

Um, So, I don't know.

:

01:23:55,097 --> 01:23:57,557

But, I'm gonna tease

something for the audience.

:

01:23:57,666 --> 01:24:00,467

I, I, it needs your approval, of course.

:

01:24:01,607 --> 01:24:08,057

But, I think our next show, Session two,

the second show of our Oscar series.

:

01:24:08,057 --> 01:24:09,407

We should take on the two biggies.

:

01:24:09,587 --> 01:24:11,097

The one it's coming down to.

:

01:24:11,267 --> 01:24:14,237

The one that all the awards will

probably be separated between the two.

:

01:24:14,727 --> 01:24:16,047

Barbie vs.

:

01:24:16,127 --> 01:24:16,916

Oppenheimer.

:

01:24:17,107 --> 01:24:18,077

I say we do it.

:

01:24:18,397 --> 01:24:19,777

It's the two biggest ones.

:

01:24:19,916 --> 01:24:21,857

It's like fuckin Muhammad Ali vs.

:

01:24:21,916 --> 01:24:23,017

fuckin George Foreman.

:

01:24:23,367 --> 01:24:25,187

This is Tyson Holyfield, baby!

:

01:24:25,416 --> 01:24:26,807

Let's do Barbie vs.

:

01:24:26,847 --> 01:24:28,587

Oppenheimer for our next show.

:

01:24:28,587 --> 01:24:29,067

What do you say?

:

01:24:29,307 --> 01:24:29,887

Chris: Done.

:

01:24:30,337 --> 01:24:30,897

Yes!

:

01:24:31,907 --> 01:24:32,677

Approved.

:

01:24:33,037 --> 01:24:33,157

Yes!

:

01:24:33,477 --> 01:24:37,017

So, it's, I mean, it's funny

because all last summer everything

:

01:24:37,017 --> 01:24:38,277

was, what were they calling it?

:

01:24:39,142 --> 01:24:42,312

Barbie hop, Barbie hammer or something.

:

01:24:43,522 --> 01:24:43,912

Jerome: Oppen Arby.

:

01:24:45,632 --> 01:24:46,402

Barbie hammer.

:

01:24:46,762 --> 01:24:47,732

Chris: It was so funny too.

:

01:24:47,752 --> 01:24:50,842

Cause I didn't see either of

them when it first came out.

:

01:24:50,842 --> 01:24:52,402

I finally did see Barbie.

:

01:24:52,462 --> 01:24:53,972

I still haven't seen Oppenheimer.

:

01:24:54,527 --> 01:24:57,527

So, and I'm, I'm sad I didn't

see that on the big screen.

:

01:24:57,527 --> 01:25:00,507

I think it is showing in

the Detroit area somewhere.

:

01:25:00,527 --> 01:25:01,187

Jerome: They, they did.

:

01:25:01,197 --> 01:25:03,166

They re released it for

IMAX after the nomination.

:

01:25:03,166 --> 01:25:04,617

Chris: So I need to get

down there and watch it.

:

01:25:04,617 --> 01:25:05,457

Jerome: So you should check it out.

:

01:25:05,457 --> 01:25:07,277

You should, I think you can

stream it right now, but you

:

01:25:07,277 --> 01:25:08,377

should check it out on the IMAX.

:

01:25:08,707 --> 01:25:09,157

That would be insane.

:

01:25:09,166 --> 01:25:10,097

Chris: Well, here's the thing.

:

01:25:10,117 --> 01:25:11,227

I can't take my wife.

:

01:25:12,137 --> 01:25:12,537

Why?

:

01:25:12,657 --> 01:25:16,267

She does not want to see

nuclear bombs in IMAX.

:

01:25:16,597 --> 01:25:17,677

It just freaks her out.

:

01:25:17,727 --> 01:25:18,527

Jerome: Okay, to be fair.

:

01:25:20,142 --> 01:25:22,022

They only show one nuclear bomb.

:

01:25:22,072 --> 01:25:23,562

So why is it at IMAX?

:

01:25:23,562 --> 01:25:24,612

I mean, it's just one bomb.

:

01:25:24,612 --> 01:25:25,852

And it's just the test.

:

01:25:25,862 --> 01:25:26,892

It's just the testing.

:

01:25:26,952 --> 01:25:27,452

Well, yeah.

:

01:25:27,782 --> 01:25:31,322

They don't show the murder of a couple

hundred thousand people during the war.

:

01:25:31,442 --> 01:25:32,462

They don't show any of that.

:

01:25:32,472 --> 01:25:33,402

They talk about it.

:

01:25:33,512 --> 01:25:34,092

Yeah.

:

01:25:34,202 --> 01:25:36,522

And you notice there, but what I think

is interesting between these two,

:

01:25:36,522 --> 01:25:40,192

not just because they're the top two

films of the year, both money making

:

01:25:40,192 --> 01:25:43,742

and Oscar nominations, and they're

probably going to split the Oscars

:

01:25:43,742 --> 01:25:47,791

pretty much right down the middle, I

think what makes them interesting is

:

01:25:47,791 --> 01:25:49,912

they are similar in theme a little bit.

:

01:25:50,102 --> 01:25:55,682

They both have a lead protagonist

that is suddenly aware of their

:

01:25:55,682 --> 01:26:01,892

world and is going to change it

dramatically by their own doing.

:

01:26:02,182 --> 01:26:02,922

Their own doing.

:

01:26:02,922 --> 01:26:05,062

It doesn't happen to them,

you know what I mean?

:

01:26:05,102 --> 01:26:11,372

They create their world change and then

it's how they respond to the changes

:

01:26:11,372 --> 01:26:13,202

that they made in their own world.

:

01:26:13,202 --> 01:26:14,778

Chris: Yeah, it's an

interesting take, yeah.

:

01:26:14,778 --> 01:26:19,552

Jerome: Yeah, so it'll be, it'll be I,

I'm looking forward to our next show.

:

01:26:19,622 --> 01:26:19,872

Yeah.

:

01:26:19,892 --> 01:26:22,572

So Oppenheimer versus Barbie,

and we're going to have fun

:

01:26:22,572 --> 01:26:24,072

creating our own title for it.

:

01:26:25,242 --> 01:26:27,242

Get to work on that, you're

usually the title maker.

:

01:26:27,462 --> 01:26:30,642

Chris: Yeah, so we'll see how

quickly we can get these out.

:

01:26:30,902 --> 01:26:33,302

Jerome: Except I'm taking full

credit for Fat Hard, that was mine.

:

01:26:34,842 --> 01:26:37,082

And it's still my favorite

title of any show we've done.

:

01:26:38,242 --> 01:26:41,692

Chris: Yeah, we'll see how quickly

we can get the turnaround on these.

:

01:26:42,062 --> 01:26:44,802

I am going to Fort Lauderdale

for a week, so that's going to

:

01:26:44,802 --> 01:26:48,442

put me behind on my editing.

:

01:26:48,942 --> 01:26:50,552

I'm taking a little vacay, so.

:

01:26:51,541 --> 01:26:56,262

You know, I mean, come on, Michigan,

February, I need to get out of Dodge, man.

:

01:26:56,592 --> 01:26:57,632

We need some sunshine.

:

01:26:57,632 --> 01:26:58,541

Jerome: I'm telling you, man.

:

01:26:58,822 --> 01:27:01,032

I live in California, but

it's Northern California.

:

01:27:01,282 --> 01:27:05,612

So, we've had a crazy windstorm

lately and rain, a lot of rain lately.

:

01:27:05,702 --> 01:27:08,122

Which is interesting, because

when we get rain, you get snow.

:

01:27:08,407 --> 01:27:08,666

Yeah.

:

01:27:08,666 --> 01:27:11,977

Because by the time it comes to you,

by the time that same weather gets

:

01:27:11,977 --> 01:27:15,177

across the country to you, it turns

into fucking ice storms and shit.

:

01:27:15,277 --> 01:27:15,657

Yeah.

:

01:27:16,047 --> 01:27:19,037

Well shout out to our new

listener, our uncle Dennis Hagen.

:

01:27:22,487 --> 01:27:24,397

Chris: Thanks for listening, Uncle Dan.

:

01:27:24,666 --> 01:27:28,157

Jerome: Yes, you've now added,

you've, you've raised our listener

:

01:27:28,187 --> 01:27:29,987

group by a hundred percent.

:

01:27:31,847 --> 01:27:33,407

We're now up to two listeners.

:

01:27:33,407 --> 01:27:33,977

You're right.

:

01:27:36,532 --> 01:27:38,102

But anyway uh, yeah, good show.

:

01:27:38,142 --> 01:27:38,972

I like these two.

:

01:27:39,041 --> 01:27:43,242

Uh, You know uh, check out the

rest of the Oscar nominees.

:

01:27:43,242 --> 01:27:44,342

Get ready for the Oscars, man.

:

01:27:44,342 --> 01:27:44,862

They're coming up.

:

01:27:45,302 --> 01:27:45,602

Yep.

:

01:27:45,702 --> 01:27:46,052

Alright.

:

01:27:47,082 --> 01:27:47,662

Do your thing.

:

01:27:48,332 --> 01:27:48,882

What do you say?

:

01:27:49,582 --> 01:27:51,291

Support your local cinema.

:

01:27:51,612 --> 01:27:52,092

There you go.

:

01:27:52,812 --> 01:27:53,902

Keep drinking and keep watching.

:

01:27:53,902 --> 01:27:58,872

Alright.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

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Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand