Episode 8

All Quiet on the Thin Red Line

Veterans Day Special: A Thin Red Line & All Quiet on the Western Front

Honoring Veterans Day, Chris and Jerome dedicate this episode to discussing two renowned war films - 'All Quiet on the Western Front' (2022) and 'The Thin Red Line' (1998). They offer an in-depth study of the plotlines, character arcs, and cinematography, highlighting each movie's symbolic messages about the horrors and futility of war. 

Notable topics discuss include the impact of 'Thin Red Line' on Jim Caviezel's career, Scorsese's appreciation for the film, Felix Kammerer's outstanding debut in 'All Quiet on the Western Front', and the profound visual effects of the films. Drawing comparisons with other noteworthy war movies, like Saving Private Ryan, they also discuss the emotional performances in both films. 

Toward the end, around the 1:13:00 mark, they go off the rails and talk about Tropic Thunder and the edited video short of when the Avengers started doing background checks. You can watch that video here: https://youtube.com/shorts/mc7KddvGef8?si=skQ5SmsT9Qs--VF3

They finish with a friendly “Six Degrees” actor-linking game. Add a dash of banter, with a side discussion on different drinks, and you've got a unique blend of film analysis, war history, and casual conversation. So, grab a drink and dive into the world of war cinema!

If you enjoyed listening, please leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify, or email us at cheers@silverscreenhappyhour.com

🍻We would love to hear your feedback and comments!🍻

WEBSITE: SILVER SCREEN HAPPY HOUR

EMAIL: cheers@silverscreenhappyhour.com

Follow us on Instagram: SILVER SCREEN HAPPY HOUR

Transcript
Chris:

You're listening to the Silver Screen Happy Hour.

2

:

I'm Chris Wiegand along

with my brother Jerome.

3

:

This is our Veterans Day episode

entitled All Quiet on the Thin Red Line.

4

:

We do want to raise our glasses

to all the veterans who've served

5

:

our country past and present.

6

:

Which includes my son and daughter

in law, who served in the army,

7

:

and my son is currently serving

in the Michigan National Guard.

8

:

And that also includes both of our

grandfathers, that served during World

9

:

War II, one in the European theater,

and one in the Pacific, as well as

10

:

our father that served in the Navy.

11

:

Well, if you're not behind the wheel,

go ahead and pour yourself a cold

12

:

one, and I'll get the film reel

going, so we can listen to the show.

13

:

What movies are we going

to be talking about today?

14

:

Jerome: Okay, so we picked a

couple of classic war films.

15

:

Well, a classic.

16

:

One's a new classic.

17

:

One's a remake of several remakes.

18

:

Um, What I like to playfully call

the war version of A Star is Born.

19

:

It's the All Quiet on the Western

Front, which has been remade four times.

20

:

Chris: Is this the fourth

one or the third one?

21

:

Jerome: it's three times theatrical, and

then there was one, I think, made for

22

:

TV movie that they did a long time ago.

23

:

But it's one of those, like A Star

is Born, that gets remade about

24

:

every 30 years or So and the other

one we paired it with, and I am a

25

:

genius for picking this film to pair

it with, because, as I'm going to

26

:

illustrate, how similar they really are.

27

:

And for anyone out there that

would like one and not the other,

28

:

Chris: one is far superior to the other.

29

:

Jerome: Again, I, I, I disagree

with you highly, but the other

30

:

film is the 1998 The Thin Red

Line, directed by Terrence Malick.

31

:

Um, whose only real fault in

life is that it came out the

32

:

same year as Saving Private Ryan.

33

:

And that will be, seriously, that's

gonna be a running theme on today's show.

34

:

Because...

35

:

We really could talk about all three of

them because the, the, the similarities

36

:

between All Quiet on the Western Front

and The Thin Red Line are unmistakable

37

:

.And how much they are different from

a movie like Saving Private Ryan.

38

:

So we actually will be talking about

Saving Private Ryan, or at least I will

39

:

several times throughout today's show.

40

:

Yeah.

41

:

But to start things off, I

have picked an Irish whiskey.

42

:

Called Proper Twelve.

43

:

And I think I drank this on a previous

podcast, but the significance of

44

:

this is that it is Conor McGregor's.

45

:

Whiskey, like he's like the, you

know, it's his, yeah, it's his, yeah,

46

:

so obviously what is Conor McGregor?

47

:

He's a fighter.

48

:

Chris: He's a fighter.

49

:

Jerome: And we're doing, we're

doing two more movies, right?

50

:

Chris: He goes to war.

51

:

Jerome: Right, so we're doing two fighter

movies, and I picked a fighter one.

52

:

Chris: I'm impressed.

53

:

I'm impressed you didn't go

with a light, a Bud Light.

54

:

Jerome: Oh, no, I have, my

beer backup as usual, but okay.

55

:

All right, are you ready?

56

:

Chris: Yeah, let's do the pour.

57

:

Jerome: Okay.

58

:

Did you pick that up?

59

:

Chris: Oh, yeah.

60

:

Nice.

61

:

Sounds tasty.

62

:

Jerome: Oh, it is.

63

:

Chris: I like me some Irish whiskey.

64

:

Jerome: What are you going with today?

65

:

Chris: A German style pilsner.

66

:

Jerome: Nice.

67

:

Chris: Right?

68

:

And it's made by Warpigs Brewing.

69

:

Jerome: Oh, how perfect is that?

70

:

Chris: I know, and the name of the

beer is called A Light in the black.

71

:

Which I think is brilliant for the stuff

we're going to be talking about today.

72

:

Jerome: Well, and the funny thing is, is

I actually tried to find Like a German

73

:

whiskey or a German alcohol for today

because of All Quiet on the Western Front.

74

:

Yeah.

75

:

And I couldn't really find one.

76

:

I mean they're out there, but like,

you know, I was pressed for time.

77

:

So I, you know, and I wasn't

at a BevMo or a Total Wine and

78

:

Spirits where I could like peruse.

79

:

Yeah.

80

:

I had to act quickly.

81

:

And then...

82

:

I saw, well, if I can't go there,

what if I go Thin Red Line and I

83

:

thought, well, I do have a Suntory

Times right here in front of me.

84

:

And I thought that was more of a shout

out to the movie Lost in Translation.

85

:

So, I decided against,

doing the Japanese liquor.

86

:

And I just went with the old Conor

McGregor because he's a fighter.

87

:

Chris: Yeah, well done.

88

:

So let me, before I crack the can,

these are canned, it says, A storm

89

:

of light breaks the spell of darkness.

90

:

I know what I must do.

91

:

The light guides my hand onward.

92

:

Jerome: You know, that sounds a lot

like Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens.

93

:

I know what I must do.

94

:

I just hope I have the strength to do it.

95

:

Chris: Alright, here we go.

96

:

Oh!

97

:

Jerome: Jesus!

98

:

Chris: Did you get that?

99

:

Oh shit!

100

:

Jerome: That...

101

:

That...

102

:

That was a beautiful...

103

:

Chris: First time ever on this podcast.

104

:

Jerome: Condom broke.

105

:

The condom broke on that one.

106

:

Chris: Hey, it's good theatrical,

entertainment here for the audience.

107

:

Jerome: God, our poor listeners.

108

:

Chris: I just spilled beer all over me.

109

:

Jerome: Our poor listeners.

110

:

I feel bad for them.

111

:

So while you're cleaning up your mess, it

is also duly noted, another film we could

112

:

have paired with All Quiet on the Western

Front, which is actually way more similar

113

:

to All Quiet on the Western Front than

The Thin Red Line, and it was:

114

:

The movie that just was up for

Best Picture, what, two years ago?

115

:

Chris: Oh, yeah, yeah.

116

:

Jerome: Yeah, very similar because

both really track sort of like the

117

:

walking journey of a soldier, you know,

yeah All quiet on the Western Front.

118

:

They actually say at the end when

they talk about like kind of like

119

:

a epilogue Yeah, they mentioned

how this whole battle Was only over

120

:

like a couple of football fields.

121

:

That's it.

122

:

Like, it just kept...

123

:

Chris: It was back and forth

for like how long where it was

124

:

just a few couple hundred yards

in either direction, you know?

125

:

Jerome: Yeah, and it went on for years.

126

:

Chris: And thousands

of men died over that.

127

:

Jerome: Yep, and it lasted

just a few, I don't want to say

128

:

just, it lasted several years.

129

:

Chris: Yeah, I finally cleaned up my mess.

130

:

I gotta pour my beer.

131

:

Jerome: Good.

132

:

Embarrassment.

133

:

Chris: Dude, this is a

beautiful looking beer.

134

:

Jerome: Okay, we're going to start

with All Quiet on the Western Front.

135

:

So, for anyone that hasn't seen

it, now, we battled on this one

136

:

because we don't talk about endings.

137

:

But as you remember I

text you a few days ago.

138

:

We're gonna have to talk about endings.

139

:

Chris: Yeah, well.

140

:

Jerome: Because both of these

films have a very similar type of

141

:

ending when it comes to the hero.

142

:

Chris: I mean, I don't think

anyone's gonna be upset if you

143

:

tell people that someone dies.

144

:

Jerome: Well, not only that.

145

:

Chris: In a World War 1 film.

146

:

Jerome: Not only that.

147

:

That's like saying Titanic the ship sank.

148

:

What the fuck?

149

:

But, so, no, but, particularly,

The Thin Red Line came out in

150

:

98, so, you know, you had your

chance, number one on that one.

151

:

And then All Quiet on the Western

Front's been remade so many times, if

152

:

you haven't seen any of the versions

yet, can't help you there either.

153

:

Chris: Tough luck.

154

:

Jerome: So, the main character of Paul

Balmer, Private Balmer, in All Quiet on

155

:

the Western Front, which, by the way, Can

we just say that the actor, his first,

156

:

first film he's ever done, and as of

right now, his only film he's ever done.

157

:

Chris: Not for long.

158

:

Jerome: Not for long.

159

:

but, amazing.

160

:

Absolutely amazing.

161

:

He was fantastic.

162

:

Chris: Hold on, let's ask

this question right now.

163

:

Did you watch it, you didn't

watch it in German, I know

164

:

from your response to my text.

165

:

Because you can watch it in the original

language with English subtitles.

166

:

Or you didn't, so with, you

had it dubbed English.

167

:

Jerome: It wouldn't really matter

too much and let me explain why.

168

:

Everything I watch has to have English

subtitles because when the girls go

169

:

to sleep for anyone listening, I have

a seven year old and a five, or a a

170

:

seven and a five and a half year old.

171

:

So when they go to bed, bed at 830,

which is when I usually sit down

172

:

to do this stuff, I have to turn

the volume down anyway, or else the

173

:

wife will come out and scream at me.

174

:

It's too loud.

175

:

And we're watching war movies.

176

:

So I have to really turn the

volume down, which, but again, as

177

:

we've talked on previous podcasts

about Hitchcock movies, right?

178

:

When you turn the volume down, you can

still tell everything that's going on.

179

:

This is one of those films.

180

:

This is one of those films.

181

:

Actually.

182

:

So it was a thin red line.

183

:

I can still.

184

:

I still had some of the volume up.

185

:

I still could hear them,

you know what I mean?

186

:

I don't want to say I turned it all the

way down, but pretty much everything

187

:

I watch after 830 I have subtitles

on anyway, so I don't miss anything.

188

:

But I have to say that the, the,

again, the cinematography I did have

189

:

the sound up enough to, actually

I have to, I have to clarify.

190

:

This was the second time I

watched it for this podcast.

191

:

I saw it about a month and a half

ago when the Oscar nominations

192

:

came out, about two months ago.

193

:

I saw it in December

when it first came out.

194

:

Yeah, because it was nominated,

so I wanted to watch it, and then

195

:

I watched it Vy and I watched it

together, and we had full volume on,

196

:

so I did, I did get the full effect.

197

:

Chris: Wow, I couldn't

watch that one with Jessie.

198

:

She, she doesn't like war movies in

general, and then this one, I feel, I

199

:

felt like, I mean, let me just throw

my two cents in here about, like,

200

:

overall, I felt like this, this movie

captured, The horrors of war, like I,

201

:

I just thought better than almost any

other movie I've seen because there's,

202

:

I mean, there's so many different parts

and the way it contrasted or contrasted,

203

:

contrasted like beauty and horror.

204

:

With the cinematography and, and the joy

on the young men's faces in one scene,

205

:

and then 30 seconds later, it's horror.

206

:

Jerome: And, and we're gonna,

we're gonna get a similar tie in

207

:

to that on the next movie as well.

208

:

Yeah.

209

:

I don't know if you caught it, if

you caught it on the next movie too.

210

:

But in this one, yes, absolutely.

211

:

And it's also interesting to note,

the film's opening shot and it's

212

:

closing shot are the exact same.

213

:

Same shot,

214

:

Chris: I don't think I caught that

215

:

Jerome: and what's cool about that is

almost like saying, you know, because

216

:

then you know They go into the epilogue

about how it's this is really just

217

:

over a couple hundred yards, right of

distance I think what the filmmakers are

218

:

showing with that because generally in

in screenwriting Generally, you start

219

:

your opening shot and your closing

shot are the exact opposite, right?

220

:

If your opening shot is the desert Often

your ending shot will be the ocean,

221

:

you know, so just that's just a very

broad example Just showing that you

222

:

know, that growth has happened, right?

223

:

That there was a journey and your

closing shot is completely opposite

224

:

of your opening shot oh, what was it?

225

:

There was another movie I was watching

recently and I was like, oh shit.

226

:

That's so cool The movie opened

with planes taking off, and

227

:

it ended with planes landing.

228

:

So it was like, okay, so, you know,

these are all symbolism shots, right?

229

:

To use the same shot for both indicates

that people died and not much has changed.

230

:

Chris: Right.

231

:

Jerome: Right?

232

:

Like, how, what, how would a sad

thought that is, you know what I mean?

233

:

Like, men, 17, 18, 19 year

old men died by the thousands,

234

:

and nothing was accomplished.

235

:

Chris: I mean millions

if you add everybody up.

236

:

Jerome: Yeah.

237

:

But I mean, just this part

of the western front, right?

238

:

Dealing with the French couple

hundred yards of, of space.

239

:

Thousands have died and we are no further

along than we were at the beginning.

240

:

And that's a sad, that's

really a sad take on it.

241

:

Yeah.

242

:

So I wrote that down

as, as a, as a notation.

243

:

I, I think, and it's, it really

starts off disturbing as well.

244

:

And I kind of love how they,

I, I don't love it, but.

245

:

I loved it in a disturbing way.

246

:

They start off by showing a

private, right off the bat, and

247

:

you think, oh, is this the lead?

248

:

We're with him for about 30

seconds, and then he dies.

249

:

Rather quickly, and you're

like, nope, that wasn't the main

250

:

character apparently, and, but

the point is why they set that up.

251

:

I think his name was Heinrich,

and they even made a point to say,

252

:

Heinrich, Heinrich, Heinrich over here.

253

:

So you're like, okay Heinrich, this

is the guy we're gonna follow today.

254

:

Nope, he dies, like relatively

quickly, and the reason they did that

255

:

is because they wanted to show What

they do with their clothes, right?

256

:

They take the clothes off the

bodies of these dead soldiers.

257

:

And then they ship them back.

258

:

They wash them.

259

:

They get all the blood out of them.

260

:

And then they stitch up the bullet holes.

261

:

And then they get it

back to the next soldier!

262

:

Chris: Sew it back up and

get it back out there.

263

:

Jerome: Right.

264

:

And then, and then the main

character, Paul Balmer.

265

:

Comes in, and he gets his

clothes, and he goes, Oh, these

266

:

must belong to somebody else.

267

:

His name's Heinrich is on here.

268

:

And the guy said, Oh, no,

they must have been too small.

269

:

And he tears the name tag off, and then

they show him dropping it on the floor

270

:

where all the other name tags are.

271

:

Chris: That was a great sequence.

272

:

It was brilliant.

273

:

Jerome: Yes, the whole beginning is great.

274

:

Now, I have to say as well, these films...

275

:

And how they're different from

movies like Saving Private Ryan,

276

:

from a screenwriting standpoint, we

always talk about script structure.

277

:

They don't follow generally

the same sort of beats, right?

278

:

As they would a clear three act structure

with turning points and plot points

279

:

and character development and all this.

280

:

You see that a lot in movies that

have more of a linear storyline

281

:

like a Saving Private Ryan, right?

282

:

Mm hmm.

283

:

And, and, both the films that we're

talking about today are way more abstract.

284

:

And I wrote that word down because

both of these films are like

285

:

an abstract painting, right?

286

:

You take, you take what you get out of it.

287

:

It's, it's more art

than it is storytelling.

288

:

It's it's art.

289

:

Yeah, and and I love movies like this and

the thin red line because they're artistic

290

:

They're they're they're works of art.

291

:

They look like paintings almost and

both films Wonderful scores and the

292

:

music plays a key part in both films.

293

:

Chris: I will I will

say really quick here.

294

:

My boys hated the, Duh, nuh, nuh.

295

:

Jerome: I loved it.

296

:

Loved it.

297

:

I loved it.

298

:

Chris: And they did it

throughout the entire movie.

299

:

Jerome: V hated it too.

300

:

My wife hated it too.

301

:

Chris: Jonah, I think, my son,

he said when I told him they won

302

:

that academy award, right, for...

303

:

What was it?

304

:

Best score?

305

:

Jerome: Yes.

306

:

Chris: Anyways.

307

:

Jerome: No, well they won, I

think they won the sound one too.

308

:

Chris: I can't remember,

I'll have to look it up.

309

:

So he, he's like, really?

310

:

For der der der.

311

:

He was criticizing it.

312

:

Because it's stuck in his head.

313

:

Jerome: Right, but that, that

was the whole point, right?

314

:

That like, I mean, haunting.

315

:

It was haunting whereas...

316

:

Chris: Foreboding.

317

:

Jerome: It is.

318

:

And when we talk about the

Thin Red Line, you'll hear

319

:

it's almost the exact opposite.

320

:

The music was played perfectly,

but it was almost very sad.

321

:

It was like a real downer.

322

:

You know what I mean?

323

:

Now, it also had haunting music

like that during the battle scenes.

324

:

We'll talk about that when

we get to the next movie.

325

:

But both films used sound and music

beautifully to their advantage.

326

:

All Quiet on the Western

Front won four Academy Awards.

327

:

Of course, Best International

Feature, which is what they

328

:

call now the best foreign film.

329

:

Chris: Sure.

330

:

Jerome: Best Original Score.

331

:

Best Achievement in Cinematography.

332

:

And, and Best Achievement

in Production Design.

333

:

Nominated I want to say for 7 or 8 total.

334

:

1, 2, nominations at 1 4.

335

:

Chris: Yeah, it was worthy, man.

336

:

The cinematography, I mean.

337

:

The shots, the beautiful scenery in

some of the shots some of the other

338

:

shots, it, it captures just the

hellscape of what it, what it became.

339

:

You know what I mean?

340

:

And it was, it was chilling.

341

:

And because of the contrast too,

cause you could do a whole World War

342

:

movie and it's just all hellscape.

343

:

You know what I mean?

344

:

Yeah.

345

:

And, but because they had that, that

contrast, it was, it was, it was moving.

346

:

It was so moving.

347

:

Jerome: Well, and, and another thing

that both of these films that we're

348

:

going to talk about today had that,

like, say a movie like Saving Private

349

:

Ryan doesn't have as much, genuine fear.

350

:

Chris: Mm.

351

:

Mm hmm.

352

:

Jerome: And sort of that oh,

it's the word I'm looking for.

353

:

It's the the, the, remember we always

talk about the emotional tug of war.

354

:

Some scenes.

355

:

You mentioned it already, a lot of times

in, in All Quiet on the Western Front,

356

:

there were moments of happiness, right?

357

:

Like, they were like, this is cool,

we're going off to war, right?

358

:

Things are good.

359

:

And then the next scene, one dude's

shoving another dude's face into

360

:

the mud, and you're like, ah, he's

gonna die, you know what I mean?

361

:

And they think, I'm gonna die.

362

:

How many times did Balmer, we're

gonna get to this too as far as the

363

:

theme, Balmer watched his friends die.

364

:

He watched one of his

friends get set on fire.

365

:

Chris: Yeah, that was rough.

366

:

Jerome: With a flamethrower.

367

:

So, and oh, so, I'm

getting ahead of myself.

368

:

So, about.

369

:

We talked about script structure

and how these films, but if you look

370

:

closely enough, it's still there,

is what I was going to get at.

371

:

Chris: I was, I was wrestling with

that too, because like in All Quiet on

372

:

the Western Front, I was like, what?

373

:

So the, what's the guy's, what's

the guy's name that's the lead?

374

:

Bomber.

375

:

Bomber.

376

:

Private Bomber.

377

:

Yeah, so, like, I'm, so I'm asking

myself, so what's, what's his, you know,

378

:

what's he gonna learn, in this journey?

379

:

And basically, what I came up

with is he learned, like, he

380

:

had a romanticism about war.

381

:

And that was, he learned.

382

:

Jerome: He learned real quick.

383

:

Chris: He found out.

384

:

Jerome: Yeah, what was that,

fuck around and find out?

385

:

Chris: Yeah, fucked

around and he found out.

386

:

There's no romance, man.

387

:

Jerome: It was just, oh.

388

:

Well, along with that, I notated eight

minutes in, now we always talk about

389

:

how usually the to the main character.

390

:

He's usually not the one saying it.

391

:

But in this case, I actually had a line

that he said I wrote down 8 minutes in.

392

:

He says to his friends, because

he has to forge the signature of

393

:

his parents, to go off to battle.

394

:

Probably because he's only 17, right?

395

:

Or whatever.

396

:

Chris: 16 or 17, yeah.

397

:

Jerome: Yeah.

398

:

And he said, I'm not

going to be left behind.

399

:

Or I'm not going to be left behind here.

400

:

And at the time I didn't think much of it.

401

:

The first time I saw it, but when I

was watching it again for this podcast,

402

:

I wrote that down because it occurred

to me that one by one, everybody he

403

:

knows dies and gets left behind, right?

404

:

And he seems to survive every scene.

405

:

Right?

406

:

Everything that goes on, he

seems to make it through.

407

:

You know, I would say that

the first turning point would

408

:

probably be when he gets his first

realization that this isn't fun.

409

:

Because the whole first half, or the

first, I always say that, first half,

410

:

the whole first act, they're looking

forward to this, you know what I mean?

411

:

They're like, they're like Tom

Cruise in Born on the Fourth of

412

:

July, they're gung ho, right?

413

:

They're like, yeah, let's go

up, it's gonna be like summer

414

:

camp, let's go and have fun.

415

:

You know, we're going to war, this is

gonna be great, they're all excited.

416

:

First moment that he realizes he made a

big mistake was the gas mask scene, right?

417

:

Where he kind of bitches him out

because he's putting it on wrong or

418

:

he's, he tells everybody to about

face and he's facing the other way.

419

:

So he's like, it's almost like the

freshmen that joined the football practice

420

:

and he's doing everything wrong and

everybody wants to beat him up for it.

421

:

It's like at that moment he's

like, fuck, did I make a mistake?

422

:

Like maybe, maybe I shouldn't be here.

423

:

And that's where it really takes

a jump into the second act.

424

:

And, I mean, the rest of the first

half of the film is met with that, like

425

:

you said, one moment they're happy.

426

:

They're stealing chickens, right?

427

:

And they're all around cooking up

the chicken, everything's great.

428

:

Right, goose.

429

:

And then, and then, and he's making

new friends, and, and, but one by one,

430

:

shit happens, and people are dying.

431

:

I want to say, the midpoint scene as far

as timing, it's real interesting because

432

:

we always talk about, like, something

good happens at the midpoint scene,

433

:

but then immediately turns to shit.

434

:

This is immediate.

435

:

At the midpoint scene, they take

the French bunker, and it seems

436

:

like, fuck, this is a huge...

437

:

part of this war, right?

438

:

We just, we just captured

the French bunker.

439

:

Everything's going to be a victory.

440

:

Then they look up and all the

fucking tanks are coming in.

441

:

They're like, shit, they all get down.

442

:

The fucking tanks are going

into the bunker and crushing

443

:

people and running over people.

444

:

And it's like, that turned bad real quick.

445

:

That went from, that went from.

446

:

False victory to the bad guys

closing in, in like a fucking second.

447

:

Chris: Yeah, they wasted no time.

448

:

Jerome: Yeah, that was crazy.

449

:

Yeah so, and then the so then the second

half of the second act you know, after

450

:

the midpoint where we always say bad

things start to happen, you start to

451

:

get a lot of cutaways of the government

trying to haggle about ending the war.

452

:

Right.

453

:

And then meanwhile, though, these

guys are still out there fighting.

454

:

And he's losing friends, his one friend

kills himself, he asks for cutlery.

455

:

Chris: Yeah, that was rough.

456

:

Jerome: And they bring it to him and

he jams it into his own throat because

457

:

he refuses to go home a cripple.

458

:

I mean, these scenes are so hard

to watch, man, and you're just

459

:

like, Man, and you know it's just

taking a toll on Balmer, right?

460

:

There's a scene where he's talking to Kat.

461

:

I can't remember the guy's

name, it's like Kataslovsky or

462

:

something, but they call him Kat.

463

:

He, he's his, ends up being the

one friend that lasts the longest.

464

:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

465

:

And and he, and, and he asks

him why, why he joined the army.

466

:

And he said, I wanted to

prove to my mom I could do it.

467

:

And, and I remember thinking how,

how much that ties into Private

468

:

Witt from The Thin Red Line.

469

:

About his, his voiceovers in the beginning

of that film about his mother dying.

470

:

Right and we'll get to that about the

tie in there, but I just I thought it

471

:

was interesting how both characters

how their mother Was a driving

472

:

factor in them proving themselves.

473

:

Yeah.

474

:

Right.

475

:

And then of course you get

to the point where Cat dies.

476

:

And, you know, again, not to

ruin much of the ending, but

477

:

they're practically out of it.

478

:

Right?

479

:

Because the war is over, or,

or it's going to be over.

480

:

Chris: It's already been announced.

481

:

They're just waiting for

the clock to strike, right?

482

:

Jerome: No, this, but

that's, that's even later.

483

:

That's worse.

484

:

Cat dies when they're out of harm's way.

485

:

They're, they're back, they're back

in the village area, and they go

486

:

to steal another fucking goose.

487

:

And this time it goes bad.

488

:

And, and and another, this is a tie in,

another tie in to Saving Private Ryan.

489

:

This really could have been

a three movie talk today.

490

:

Another tie in to Saving Private Ryan.

491

:

When Kat, they get Kat to the

he finally carries him, right?

492

:

Carries him all the way to the medic.

493

:

And the guy says, you shouldn't

have wasted your time, he's dead.

494

:

And he goes, what do you mean?

495

:

I was just talking to him a minute ago.

496

:

He says, no, you see that?

497

:

It's black blood.

498

:

He got, he got shot in the liver.

499

:

So, for, for, you know, I am not

a scientist or a biologist, but I

500

:

know enough, I've seen enough war

movies to tell you that if you get

501

:

shot in the liver, you're fucked.

502

:

Because the liver is what

cleanses your body of toxins.

503

:

So it's really just a big bag of poison.

504

:

That's all your liver really is.

505

:

And if you get shot in it, it

all spills into your bloodstream.

506

:

Right?

507

:

So, what's the tie in

the Saving Private Ryan?

508

:

Do you remember when Giovanni Ribisi, I

believe, is the actor that played Wade.

509

:

Harlan Wade, the doctor.

510

:

Mm hmm.

511

:

Right?

512

:

He gets shot, and as he's laying there,

they're all standing around him, and

513

:

they're all like, Tell us how to fix you.

514

:

Tell us how to fix you.

515

:

And he's like, okay, reach behind me.

516

:

How big is the exit hole?

517

:

You know what I mean?

518

:

And Tom Hanks is like, oh, it's

about the size of an acorn.

519

:

And he goes, here, put my hand on it.

520

:

And he puts his hand on it, and right

away Wade goes, Oh my God, my liver!

521

:

Like, he knows.

522

:

He knows at that point.

523

:

And I never realized how haunting that

scene was until I watched this movie.

524

:

Chris: Yeah, for the

doctor, because he knew.

525

:

Jerome: Right, because the doctor

knew the second he realized he

526

:

took that shot in the liver.

527

:

He's fucked and if you go back and watch

Saving Private Ryan again now knowing that

528

:

like the way this ties in it's even sadder

It's just more heartbreaking And then

529

:

of course Kat was his last friend and of

course he was left behind because he died

530

:

there I think that to me with the turning

point that sends it into act three is

531

:

what you mentioned They decide the war is

over and they're gonna announce at 11 a.m.

532

:

Tomorrow ceasefire So what does

the asshole general guy do?

533

:

Oh no, we're gonna have one last

battle to stick it to the French!

534

:

Chris: Yeah, try to take

one last piece of ground.

535

:

Jerome: Right!

536

:

And all the soldiers are like,

Are you fucking nuts man?

537

:

The war is over!

538

:

Like tomorrow at 11 a.

539

:

m.

540

:

It's over.

541

:

Why are we doing this?

542

:

No, at dawn we're gonna go attack.

543

:

What?

544

:

And you can see it on their faces,

particularly Private Bomber.

545

:

He's like, this is bad.

546

:

This is bad.

547

:

Because I know what's gonna happen.

548

:

Chris: You heard someone

yell out, I'm not going!

549

:

And they started beating him up.

550

:

I think they even shot him.

551

:

Because I heard a gunshot go

off after he started yelling.

552

:

That he wasn't gonna go.

553

:

Jerome: Right.

554

:

And it's so heartbreaking.

555

:

But eventually, so, so, of course,

as you can guess what happens.

556

:

Private Bomber takes a

bayonet in the chest.

557

:

Hauntingly it ends...

558

:

Well, actually in the back.

559

:

Well, yeah, but it goes through his chest.

560

:

It goes through him, yeah.

561

:

Yeah, it goes through

his whole friggin body.

562

:

And, and, and, there

were minutes away, right?

563

:

There were minutes away

when that happened.

564

:

Chris: Oh, not even.

565

:

I think right after he got stabbed,

you hear the whistles blowing.

566

:

Jerome: Yeah, seize fire,

seize fire, seize fire.

567

:

Chris: I mean, as he was dying.

568

:

He wasn't even dead yet.

569

:

When they, when they

announced the ceasefire.

570

:

Jerome: So terrible.

571

:

And then of course the final, before they

get to the final closing shot, one of

572

:

the final sequences is the guy that has

to go and collect the dog tags, right?

573

:

Yep.

574

:

And they, and they get to him and

that's when you realize he's dead.

575

:

And it has almost like, I, I wrote

down in my notes an inception type of

576

:

ending, because if you, you know, the

ending of Inception with the top is

577

:

spinning, and you don't know, you don't

know if it's going to fall over, right,

578

:

to depict if he's asleep, or if he's

in a dream or not, or if it's reality.

579

:

They held that camera on his face so

long I kept thinking his eyes were gonna

580

:

open, his eyes were gonna open, he's

not dead yet, he's not dead, he can't be

581

:

dead, he's not dead yet, and he doesn't.

582

:

Chris: It actually, you know what, when

they did that, it made me think, I think

583

:

they played some kind of camera magic.

584

:

Because there's other things in

that, in that frame, in that, in

585

:

that scene that you could see moving.

586

:

Jerome: Snowfall.

587

:

Chris: Yeah, snowfall.

588

:

So, yeah.

589

:

Jerome: I thought the same thing.

590

:

Chris: I'm like, okay, this

isn't a still picture, but

591

:

this man is not moving at all.

592

:

Jerome: Right.

593

:

Chris: And I'm like, how'd they do that?

594

:

Because even for someone

acting, you still gotta breathe.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

So they must've, oops, I bumped my mic.

597

:

They must've done, I think they

done something where they froze it.

598

:

Just on him.

599

:

Cut him out.

600

:

Photoshopped him into

this scene or something.

601

:

Jerome: It's quite possible.

602

:

Chris: It was seamless though.

603

:

It was beautiful.

604

:

I mean, it was horrible, but it

was masterfully done however they

605

:

did it because you actually thought

you were looking at a dead...

606

:

Corpse, you know what I mean?

607

:

Jerome: But, but, I kept thinking His

eyes are gonna open, his eyes are gonna

608

:

open Cause they held that shot long

enough And I'm like, come on man, he's not

609

:

dead yet Come on man, give me something

Give me something, give me a little sign

610

:

of life And it just fucking fades out

611

:

Chris: That's not how

that war went, brother

612

:

Jerome: Exactly So, we already talked

about, Okay, so, so, some quick

613

:

recaps What affected you the most?

614

:

Chris: You know I think, especially

watching it the second time, I

615

:

was reflecting a lot more about

war than I did the first time.

616

:

So what affected me the most was just

the, I guess the overarching , Uh, story

617

:

of basically humans at war and, and

we're not, we're still in that story.

618

:

And, and, and I, I kept thinking

about like, what the hell are

619

:

we doing here with Ukraine?

620

:

Because I don't know how we're

going to get out of this one.

621

:

You know what I mean?

622

:

We keep feeding, feeding arms

to a country that's, that's

623

:

fighting with the nuclear power.

624

:

If they start to lose, things

are going to get really ugly.

625

:

If, if Russia starts to lose.

626

:

Which they have.

627

:

They've lost a lot of battles.

628

:

And they're just sent, they're just

throwing more bodies at it right now.

629

:

But, it made me really pause,

like watching this going.

630

:

This was a futile war, and, and, you

know, not a lot was accomplished, and

631

:

basically it set the world up for a

World War II, because they, you know,

632

:

basically, Germany got screwed, and, you

know anyways, the rest is history, but.

633

:

Jerome: I think the difference of what

we go through now is back then, though

634

:

I wasn't alive, but just from what I've

read and what I've seen, dictators back

635

:

then really wanted to rule the world.

636

:

I think dictators today,

it's all about money.

637

:

We make so much money on war, and

we send disposable humans to die

638

:

just to continue making money.

639

:

Chris: Nod to Metallica.

640

:

Disposable Heroes.

641

:

Jerome: Right, right.

642

:

And, and I mean, you could talk

about, you know, how many times have

643

:

we been in wars that seemed futile?

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

But, but, we make money on war.

646

:

War is very profitable.

647

:

And, and we learn that because

of the Second World War.

648

:

Right?

649

:

That was an economic boom for us.

650

:

Chris: Well, yeah, we learn that, and

that's what concerns me because...

651

:

We're just sending billions

of dollars over right now to

652

:

feed the war machine, and...

653

:

Is anyone actually talking about this?

654

:

You know what I mean?

655

:

This is not something that is even talked

about at work with, you know, people.

656

:

We're not even discussing it.

657

:

And so, you know, we

658

:

usually...

659

:

Jerome: Because it's

not our soldiers dying.

660

:

Chris: Well, yeah, yeah, exactly.

661

:

So anyways, but, I don't want

to get too dark, but we are

662

:

talking about world wars here.

663

:

Jerome: We are talking about two

That's why when you texted me and

664

:

you were like, yeah, I get it, war

is bad, I'm like, you fucking idiot.

665

:

Every movie has that same theory, right?

666

:

Every movie has the same message.

667

:

Chris: Well, I was ticked cause I felt

like So we're gonna get into this, we're

668

:

gonna get into this in this next movie.

669

:

But I felt like The thin

red line was preachy.

670

:

I just felt like

671

:

Jerome: I didn't see that at all, though.

672

:

Chris: So, anyways, we can

conclude and move on if you'd like.

673

:

Jerome: Alright, well, like I said,

there's so many similarities that we

674

:

can bounce back and forth as we go.

675

:

So moving to the Thin Red Line.

676

:

First of all, do you know the

significance of the title?

677

:

Chris: No, I don't.

678

:

Jerome: Okay, so the thin red

line is a metaphor, I want

679

:

to say, for the British Army.

680

:

When they were fighting the

Russian Empire, I want to say

681

:

again, I just briefly looked up,

I want to say it was the:

682

:

And, so what happened was, is uh, oh

fuck, I'm uh, there's historians that

683

:

are probably screaming right now.

684

:

Because they know it was

the Crimean War, I think.

685

:

But anyway, so they were, they're in

this area, the British Army, right?

686

:

And the Russian Empire is coming.

687

:

And they're far outmatched.

688

:

The Russians are, are I'm sorry,

the British are outmatched.

689

:

The Russians have a

vastly larger army, right?

690

:

It's like 25, 000 to like 4, 000.

691

:

Some, some crazy bullshit like that.

692

:

And the British are like,

What the fuck are we gonna do?

693

:

We're screwed.

694

:

So what they did is they all lined up.

695

:

across the border, too deep.

696

:

That's it.

697

:

Just two people deep.

698

:

But by doing it that way, they stretched

all the way down so that when the

699

:

Russians started to come over the hill

and saw them, they were like, fuck, and

700

:

they turned around and they went back.

701

:

So they called it the thin red

line because they were wearing,

702

:

you know, their uniforms.

703

:

So it became a metaphor.

704

:

It became a metaphor for

being outmatched, right?

705

:

It became a metaphor for you

are against superior numbers.

706

:

And that's what the Americans are

in the Battle of Guadalcanal, right?

707

:

They land there, and I can't

remember if it was before or

708

:

after the Battle of Wake Island.

709

:

Anybody that knows, the Battle

of Wake Island was a disaster.

710

:

All the Marines died.

711

:

It was not a very good battle for us.

712

:

That was one island we tried to take

during World War II in the Pacific.

713

:

Got our asses kicked.

714

:

Chris: Before you continue with that

thought, I'm going to make some noise

715

:

because I have to unwrap my next beer.

716

:

I couldn't find a cooler, so I

got this little, little ice pack.

717

:

Jerome: This is my brother, folks.

718

:

He can't, he can't find a cooler.

719

:

Chris: Look at that.

720

:

I made a, I made a beer

burrito with an ice pack.

721

:

Jerome: His beer was injured, so he

wrapped an ice pack around it so it

722

:

wouldn't, so the swelling would go down.

723

:

God dammit.

724

:

Alright, so anyway.

725

:

I was in the middle of

an important thought.

726

:

But anyway.

727

:

Oh wait, I'll stop for that.

728

:

Oh yeah, that's good.

729

:

So, James Jones wrote the book in 1962.

730

:

It's a semi autobiographical.

731

:

Now what's interesting also to

note is that James Jones also

732

:

wrote the book of which the film

From Here to Eternity is based on.

733

:

And The Thin Red Line was

supposed to be a direct sequel.

734

:

To from here to eternity that was

his plan and then he realized that he

735

:

killed off all his major characters

at the end of from here to eternity

736

:

so he couldn't carry any of them over

so he had to create new characters.

737

:

Again autobiographical on his

own experiences in World War II.

738

:

So he wrote this book and he used that

title because, again, the Americans

739

:

that land, the soldiers that landed on

Guadalcanal, it now became Central Island

740

:

because there was an airstrip there.

741

:

And the Japs were going, the

Japanese were going to use the

742

:

island as like a way station.

743

:

Like, they could get to the mainland,

our mainland, and attack us.

744

:

Easier if they had a

stopping point, right?

745

:

Like you can't, it's hard

to fly jet planes from, from

746

:

Japan to the United States.

747

:

They needed an island in the

middle to, to, to land on, to fuel

748

:

up, gear up, weapon up and go.

749

:

It was essential to take this island.

750

:

Unfortunately, it was heavily

covered by the Japanese.

751

:

So we were.

752

:

Outmatch.

753

:

We were against greater numbers.

754

:

So that's why he used

the title for the book.

755

:

And of course, Terrence Malick

adapted the screenplay and used

756

:

the title again as, as the film.

757

:

Now I wrote down a couple other notes,

only because you pissed me off with

758

:

how much you said you didn't like it.

759

:

So this film, the film costs 52

million to make, which by today's

760

:

numbers is 96 million, which

is standard for today's film.

761

:

Chris: That's because they had

every freaking name in Hollywood

762

:

in this fricking film, man.

763

:

Jerome: Well,

764

:

Chris: it was was so unnecessary

765

:

Jerome: Here, here's the funny part.

766

:

My gosh.

767

:

He had to do that.

768

:

Chris: Come on.

769

:

Jerome: He had no intention.

770

:

He had no intention of doing that.

771

:

But the studio said, we need big names.

772

:

Do you know all the names that read

for those parts and didn't get it?

773

:

Chris: Did he need that many big names?

774

:

I mean, for crying out loud,

775

:

Jerome: and it made 98 million

in:

776

:

equivalent of 181 million.

777

:

Okay.

778

:

A pretty successful film.

779

:

Scorsese called it his second

favorite film of the 90s.

780

:

Gene Siskel called it the greatest

contemporary war film I've ever seen.

781

:

That's a quote from Gene Siskel.

782

:

Chris: Yeah, but wasn't it Gene

Siskel that didn't like Die Hard?

783

:

Jerome: No, that was Roger Ebert.

784

:

That was Roger Ebert.

785

:

And I tell that to people all the time.

786

:

I always say, hey, whenever somebody

makes a mistake, I always say,

787

:

don't feel bad, Roger Ebert in

:

788

:

I tell that to people all the time.

789

:

But...

790

:

Chris: Gene Siskel could

make mistakes too, so...

791

:

Jerome: But, but you, to your point,

you would agree with Ebert on this.

792

:

Ebert, on the other hand, liked it, but

he said he felt like it was unfinished.

793

:

But that's abstract art to me.

794

:

You know what I mean?

795

:

That it, that it takes a lot of inter

It didn't have a linear storyline.

796

:

Again, the biggest problem with the Thin

Red Line is it came out in the wrong year.

797

:

Right?

798

:

Because Saving Private Ryan won the

Oscars that it normally would have won.

799

:

It won the sound, and music, and

sound effects, and all that shit.

800

:

If, if the Thin Red Lion came

out just one year later and was

801

:

matched up against American Beauty,

I think it wins all these Oscars.

802

:

Chris: Oh, yeah, probably.

803

:

Jerome: But, but it came out in a

rough year because everybody loved

804

:

Spielberg that year and everybody

loved Saving Private ryan, right?

805

:

Chris: What about 97?

806

:

What came out in 97?

807

:

Jerome: Titanic.

808

:

Nothing was beating Titanic that year.

809

:

Chris: Oh, yeah.

810

:

Jerome: But anyway um, so, so

Again, so a couple of notes.

811

:

Also, I wrote down that

the imagery, right?

812

:

So what I noticed was

where most war films.

813

:

would depict body parts, like

Saving Private Ryan, body parts

814

:

flying off, people covered in blood.

815

:

The thin red line would cut to,

like, animals, and showing how a

816

:

bird was affected by the bombing.

817

:

You know what I mean?

818

:

There was that shot of the bird

that had its wing broken and

819

:

its feathers were all burnt.

820

:

Like, instead, that's Terrence

Malick's way of saying, we are

821

:

destructive to the environment.

822

:

Chris: Yeah, which is interesting in

the, in the, I think it was the first

823

:

scene in All Quiet on the Western Front.

824

:

It was a bunch, it was a

bunch of foxes in a foxhole.

825

:

Yes.

826

:

A little fox den, yeah.

827

:

Yeah, yeah.

828

:

And you hear the bombs going

off in the background and

829

:

they're like shaking and stuff.

830

:

And I was like, oh, that's,

that's pretty brilliant.

831

:

Jerome: Right, yes, yes.

832

:

And again we talked about score.

833

:

Hans Zimmer did the score for this film.

834

:

I love Hans Zimmer, by the way.

835

:

Hans Zimmer has done a million

just IMDb Hans Zimmer and

836

:

you'll see a million films.

837

:

Yeah, right.

838

:

You're joking, right?

839

:

You are joking.

840

:

Okay.

841

:

Uh, Most notably, for those of you, the

younger crowd out there, he won an Oscar

842

:

for doing the score for The Lion King.

843

:

Yeah.

844

:

So there you go.

845

:

But anyway, a lot of emotional imagery.

846

:

I wrote that down.

847

:

Even in flashback shots.

848

:

There's a lot of flashback

shots in The Thin Red Line.

849

:

And they're all emotion driven, heart

driven, love driven, to contrast

850

:

what the soldiers are going through

in current present day, right?

851

:

Like,

852

:

Chris: I felt like it started off so slow.

853

:

Jerome: True.

854

:

Chris: And like, to your point

though, comparing it to Private Ryan.

855

:

That did not start off slow.

856

:

Right.

857

:

That's right.

858

:

It grabbed you in the first ten minutes

of the movie and you were hooked.

859

:

Yes.

860

:

And this one, man, you're

fighting to stay awake.

861

:

I mean, if you're, if you're tired

when you start Thin Red Line, you're

862

:

gonna be sleeping in twenty minutes.

863

:

Jerome: Well, and that was the thing.

864

:

I, I remember texting you one night.

865

:

I, I've seen this movie a million times.

866

:

I have it.

867

:

I have it on DVD.

868

:

So I went to watch it again for

this podcast, but I had, I...

869

:

I had to put the girls down myself,

which means that when, when V goes to

870

:

bed early and I have to put the girls

down, I'll fall asleep in there and

871

:

I don't come out until like midnight.

872

:

And then I went and I grabbed a

drink and I sit down, I put the

873

:

DVD in and the first 20 minutes

I'm like, dude, I'm going to bed.

874

:

So by no knock of the film,

it does start off slow.

875

:

Don't watch it if you're

already tired and drinking.

876

:

That's a bad combination right there.

877

:

Chris: And I get like what you're saying.

878

:

It is art, so...

879

:

But here's the thing though.

880

:

I mean, Saving Private Ryan is art too.

881

:

Jerome: Oh, of course.

882

:

Well, all film is art.

883

:

Chris: You know, all film is art.

884

:

And so, some art...

885

:

Just is more engaging

and more, I don't know.

886

:

Jerome: Well, Again, I'll

tell you I'll to your point.

887

:

I'll help you out here One of roger

ebert's criticisms was he felt that

888

:

the artisticness with audiences,

particularly in a year where Saving

889

:

Private Ryan connected to audiences.

890

:

Chris: Great.

891

:

I'm agreeing with the guy

that thought Die Hard sucked.

892

:

Great.

893

:

Jerome: Right, right.

894

:

So, hey man, you gotta pick your battles.

895

:

Pick your battles.

896

:

So and, and let me just say, when

Terrence Malick, he, he got the option

897

:

to make this film ten years earlier.

898

:

Every big name in Hollywood

wanted to work with him.

899

:

Some of them offered to do it for free.

900

:

Chris: Good lord.

901

:

Jerome: So, I mean, because he's,

he's got such a great history.

902

:

He's such a fantastic filmmaker.

903

:

So, it starts off with Private

Wit, who is played by Jim Caviezel.

904

:

Uh, For, for, for those diehard Christian

folks, you know who Jim Caviezel is.

905

:

He's a big activist

906

:

He played Jesus in um, The Jesus

907

:

Chris: the passion.

908

:

Jerome: Passion of the Christ

909

:

Chris: the passion.

910

:

Jerome: Passion, the passion.

911

:

I, I almost drew a blank

there for a minute.

912

:

So

913

:

Chris: another masterpiece by the way,

914

:

Jerome: whi.

915

:

Which is, which is, so, it's, it's

interesting how the, the most honest.

916

:

And, and sad and heartfelt scenes

are with him and Sean Penn.

917

:

Yeah.

918

:

And in, and in reality, those two

couldn't be any more different

919

:

on the political spectrum.

920

:

Sean Penn and Jim Caviezel.

921

:

But they have the best scenes together.

922

:

Yeah.

923

:

Chris: And I gotta say though, as much

as I poo pooed on this movie, there were

924

:

certain scenes that were just spectacular.

925

:

I mean, the acting, the dialogue,

I mean, there's so many, like.

926

:

Individual scenes I loved but there were,

I don't know, putting it all together and

927

:

I felt like, what did I say, I felt like

it was kind of preachy you know, kind of,

928

:

I don't know, in an anti war kind of way.

929

:

Jerome: But I didn't get that

because the anti war sentiments

930

:

I feel are in every war film.

931

:

Chris: Yeah, I know.

932

:

Jerome: You know, like, the

people you care about die.

933

:

Chris: Like you said.

934

:

Yeah, war, war sucks.

935

:

Jerome: War sucks, yeah.

936

:

Great analogy, Chris.

937

:

That pretty much sums it up for

every fucking war movie ever.

938

:

But, but, Saving Private Ryan, 1917 The

Thin Red Line, All Quiet On The Front,

939

:

Hamburger Hill, Platoon, Born on the

Fourth of July, You go through these

940

:

films, And the people that you get adapt,

that you get closest to, They die, and

941

:

they do that shit on purpose, So that

you can walk away going, War is bad.

942

:

Like, how many war, how many

war movies really glorify war?

943

:

Chris: Right.

944

:

Jerome: There are uh, Paths of Glory

by Kubrick might be the only one.

945

:

That might be the only one,

and that's fucking Kirk Douglas

946

:

in like 1960 or something.

947

:

Right.

948

:

Like, most war films,

I guess maybe Patton.

949

:

You could argue, you could

argue Patton does too.

950

:

But most war films post the Vietnam

era, and I think that's important.

951

:

Paths of Glory and Platoon are both,

well Platoon not Platoon, Patton.

952

:

Patton?

953

:

Paths to Glory was before Vietnam,

Patton was in the middle of Vietnam.

954

:

But any post Vietnam war

film are downers, man.

955

:

Even when they're not even about Vietnam.

956

:

Even when they're about

World War II or World War I.

957

:

They're downers.

958

:

Right?

959

:

Chris: Well, the culture changed because

I think during World War II in, you

960

:

know, the, the propaganda that the War

Department was putting out and everything.

961

:

Yeah.

962

:

Everyone was trying to

put a happy face on it.

963

:

Yep.

964

:

And that's what the PR

was all about, right?

965

:

I mean.

966

:

Yes.

967

:

So, but after, you know,

Vietnam was on TV every night.

968

:

Jerome: Yeah.

969

:

Yep.

970

:

Chris: You know what I mean?

971

:

Jerome: Yep.

972

:

Absolutely.

973

:

Chris: So, you couldn't hide it anymore.

974

:

Jerome: Talk about a downer.

975

:

Born on the 4th of July

is a fucking super downer.

976

:

Yeah.

977

:

Right?

978

:

Especially when you see that the, the

main character Ron Kovic was gung ho.

979

:

He, he was a big pro war

Marine, you know what I mean?

980

:

And then he comes back crippled

and he becomes an anti war

981

:

activist, you know what I mean?

982

:

It's like most movies have that, post

Vietnam movies anyway, regardless of what

983

:

war they're depicting, have a lot of that.

984

:

Anti war sentiment that war is bad

and they try to get you to fall in

985

:

love with characters And then they

kill them off in front of you, right?

986

:

Right?

987

:

So, So another thing that makes it

very, very similar to All Quiet on the

988

:

Western Front, I said the main character

of Private Balmer and the main character

989

:

of Private Witt in The Thin Red Line.

990

:

Both of them, when we said the theme

generally isn't it's usually not

991

:

the main character that says it,

it's something that's said to them.

992

:

I picked one where Private

Balmer said it himself.

993

:

I'm gonna do the same thing here.

994

:

Private Witt actually says in

his voiceover in the beginning

995

:

of the film, he was talking

about his, when his mother died.

996

:

Right?

997

:

And he said, I hope I can meet

my death with the same calm.

998

:

And the reason why I think that was a

running theme throughout the film is,

999

:

they, of all the deaths we saw, we saw

a lot of deaths in The Thin Red Line.

:

00:44:35,787 --> 00:44:39,017

There was this, we talk about

emotional tug of war, right?

:

00:44:39,247 --> 00:44:39,967

The give and take.

:

00:44:41,177 --> 00:44:42,947

Half of them were met with cowardice.

:

00:44:43,487 --> 00:44:45,217

And the other half were met with bravery.

:

00:44:45,567 --> 00:44:47,827

And it was sort of that

push and pull, right?

:

00:44:47,827 --> 00:44:52,877

Like, one goes out really bad, where

they're screaming and crying, and other

:

00:44:52,877 --> 00:44:56,347

ones were met with like, you know,

like when Woody Harrelson accidentally

:

00:44:56,347 --> 00:44:57,687

pulls the pin out of his grenade.

:

00:44:57,707 --> 00:44:58,247

Chris: Right.

:

00:44:58,377 --> 00:44:59,557

Jerome: And it's still in his belt.

:

00:45:00,007 --> 00:45:03,237

And he throws himself up against the

embankment so not to kill everybody else.

:

00:45:03,257 --> 00:45:03,507

Right.

:

00:45:03,507 --> 00:45:04,727

He just sacrifices himself.

:

00:45:04,777 --> 00:45:05,097

Yeah.

:

00:45:05,167 --> 00:45:08,667

And although he's terrified now because

he blew his ass off, he knows he's gonna

:

00:45:08,667 --> 00:45:11,717

die, there's that calm that overcomes him.

:

00:45:13,022 --> 00:45:14,622

Uh, I Mentioned another thing uh,

:

00:45:14,642 --> 00:45:16,542

Chris: He even said that,

though, and I kind of chuckled.

:

00:45:17,012 --> 00:45:17,282

I blew my ass!

:

00:45:17,512 --> 00:45:20,702

Jerome: He's like, damn

it, I blew my ass off!

:

00:45:20,702 --> 00:45:22,002

And uh, so um,

:

00:45:22,002 --> 00:45:24,532

Chris: It's like, oh man, I should

be laughing, this is horrible.

:

00:45:25,322 --> 00:45:28,552

Jerome: But, but there's Another, a

little point I wrote in that scene,

:

00:45:28,632 --> 00:45:32,742

the cinematography is so great in this

film, too, because the cinematography

:

00:45:32,742 --> 00:45:36,552

alone, well, I won't say alone, Terrence

Malick as the director as well, couldn't

:

00:45:36,552 --> 00:45:41,352

you just get the sense They wanted

you to know when it was hot, and they

:

00:45:41,352 --> 00:45:42,762

wanted you to know when it was cold.

:

00:45:42,812 --> 00:45:46,162

And the funny thing was, they're in

Guadalcanal in the South Pacific.

:

00:45:46,182 --> 00:45:48,622

So it's hot all the time, and

they're like off the equator.

:

00:45:48,982 --> 00:45:53,882

But there are moments where you see

the wind blowing the grass, and in

:

00:45:53,892 --> 00:45:56,762

that Woody Harrelson scene, now he

only said he was cold because all the

:

00:45:56,812 --> 00:45:58,272

oxygen's running out of his body, right?

:

00:45:58,272 --> 00:45:59,452

Because his ass is blown off.

:

00:45:59,642 --> 00:46:01,792

So he says, I'm cold, and

they start to cover him up.

:

00:46:01,872 --> 00:46:05,202

But then, just the way it's

shot, you FEEL that cold.

:

00:46:06,002 --> 00:46:06,492

You know what I mean?

:

00:46:06,502 --> 00:46:09,202

You feel him getting cold.

:

00:46:09,212 --> 00:46:09,232

Yeah.

:

00:46:10,252 --> 00:46:12,642

You know, it's so great

the way it was shot.

:

00:46:12,872 --> 00:46:16,782

Um, But so, so I wrote that down

as part of like that back and

:

00:46:16,782 --> 00:46:18,352

forth is cowardice and bravery.

:

00:46:19,522 --> 00:46:23,032

And then the relationships

some relationships are strained

:

00:46:23,692 --> 00:46:24,802

and some are strengthened.

:

00:46:25,052 --> 00:46:27,212

Kind of in that bravery,

cowardice kind of way.

:

00:46:27,212 --> 00:46:32,872

So the ones that are strained would

be Staros and, and Tal, right?

:

00:46:32,872 --> 00:46:35,512

Which is Elias Keteas as the captain.

:

00:46:36,122 --> 00:46:40,462

And then the, is he a lieutenant colonel,

Nick Nolte's character, the one in charge?

:

00:46:41,112 --> 00:46:44,292

They are going back, their

relationship is strong at the

:

00:46:44,292 --> 00:46:46,932

beginning, and weakens as it goes on.

:

00:46:47,212 --> 00:46:50,212

Chris: Nick Nolte, man,

what a character he played.

:

00:46:51,122 --> 00:46:52,392

Jerome: You know, you know what's funny?

:

00:46:52,542 --> 00:46:56,062

That was a huge year for him,:

:

00:46:56,112 --> 00:46:56,912

Chris: He was a lieutenant colonel.

:

00:46:57,292 --> 00:47:00,462

Jerome: He was nominated for Best

Actor in that same year for a

:

00:47:00,462 --> 00:47:03,222

movie called Affliction, which

I think is his best performance.

:

00:47:03,222 --> 00:47:07,982

We talked about Affliction on a previous

podcast, the, the Mosquito Coast, the

:

00:47:07,982 --> 00:47:10,302

Minari, the Minari Coast podcast we did.

:

00:47:10,772 --> 00:47:14,542

I mentioned Nick Nolte's character because

it was a Paul Schrader script, but that

:

00:47:14,542 --> 00:47:16,152

came out the same year as this movie.

:

00:47:16,622 --> 00:47:19,382

So he had this movie and Affliction

came out in the same year.

:

00:47:19,882 --> 00:47:22,732

It was a monster year for Nick

Nolte, and yes, dude, is he

:

00:47:22,732 --> 00:47:24,332

not terrifying in this film?

:

00:47:24,332 --> 00:47:31,252

Like he's just He just, but again,

if you can write good motivation

:

00:47:31,322 --> 00:47:32,242

Chris: Oh, yeah

:

00:47:32,302 --> 00:47:36,332

Jerome: You know they sent, they spend

the whole, they spend parts of the first

:

00:47:36,342 --> 00:47:39,312

act on why he's this driven, right?

:

00:47:39,322 --> 00:47:42,132

John Travolta, John Travolta's

character has one bit part.

:

00:47:42,132 --> 00:47:44,192

He's the, like the admiral

or something, right?

:

00:47:44,192 --> 00:47:45,072

He's his boss.

:

00:47:45,142 --> 00:47:48,607

Yeah And he's telling them

like, Oh, you know, I envy you.

:

00:47:48,607 --> 00:47:49,257

This is great.

:

00:47:49,267 --> 00:47:50,397

These are, you know, this is great.

:

00:47:50,397 --> 00:47:51,397

You're going into battle.

:

00:47:51,897 --> 00:47:55,457

And he's thinking, How many fucking

times have I been passed over?

:

00:47:55,467 --> 00:47:57,417

Like, I have to make this work.

:

00:47:57,817 --> 00:47:59,907

Guadalcanal has to be a success.

:

00:48:00,647 --> 00:48:04,387

He knows that right off the bat, so,

or else he's gonna be embarrassed again

:

00:48:04,387 --> 00:48:05,787

and get passed over for promotion.

:

00:48:05,917 --> 00:48:06,287

Chris: Right.

:

00:48:06,857 --> 00:48:10,057

Jerome: So when they're in these

battles, and Captain Starros is telling

:

00:48:10,057 --> 00:48:13,397

them, I don't want to send my men

up this hill, we're getting killed!

:

00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:14,737

This is a suicide mission!

:

00:48:14,887 --> 00:48:16,587

He's like, God damn it, Starros!

:

00:48:17,127 --> 00:48:18,347

You need to get your ass up there!

:

00:48:18,507 --> 00:48:20,697

I'm not gonna have you

avoid a straight fight!

:

00:48:20,717 --> 00:48:23,867

You know, he's, and it's so, it's

like, God, what do you do in that

:

00:48:23,867 --> 00:48:25,027

situation when you're ordered?

:

00:48:25,117 --> 00:48:27,377

And one guy even tells

him, it's not your fault.

:

00:48:27,417 --> 00:48:28,657

He's ordering you to.

:

00:48:29,072 --> 00:48:29,692

You know what I mean?

:

00:48:29,692 --> 00:48:32,942

Like, there's even a private there

that's telling the captain, It's not

:

00:48:32,942 --> 00:48:34,562

your fault, we're willing to die.

:

00:48:35,102 --> 00:48:35,932

That's what we are.

:

00:48:36,342 --> 00:48:39,092

We're marines, or whatever, we're

army rangers, or whatever they were.

:

00:48:39,102 --> 00:48:41,142

He's like, we're willing to go.

:

00:48:41,482 --> 00:48:43,282

He's ordering you to, it's not your fault.

:

00:48:43,512 --> 00:48:44,052

And he refuses!

:

00:48:44,392 --> 00:48:46,902

Chris: Well, and then,

He comes down, right?

:

00:48:47,552 --> 00:48:51,282

He comes down to where they are,

and everything kind of settled down.

:

00:48:51,892 --> 00:48:52,662

He's like, oh hell.

:

00:48:53,252 --> 00:48:54,262

Right, good timing.

:

00:48:54,522 --> 00:48:57,212

Jerome: And he's like, oh,

doesn't seem so bad now, does it?

:

00:48:57,212 --> 00:49:00,582

And he's like, well, things have just

gotten quiet just in the last few minutes.

:

00:49:00,962 --> 00:49:04,612

But but one of the relationships

on the counteract of that one, that

:

00:49:04,612 --> 00:49:06,362

relationship gets strained over the film.

:

00:49:06,562 --> 00:49:10,382

One of the ones that's

strengthened is Welsh and Wit.

:

00:49:11,137 --> 00:49:11,507

Right?

:

00:49:11,547 --> 00:49:15,757

Sean Penn and Jim Caviezel, where they

are at odds at the beginning, but as

:

00:49:15,757 --> 00:49:21,727

the film goes on, There's sort of like

a bond and a respect that forms there.

:

00:49:22,757 --> 00:49:23,507

You know what I mean?

:

00:49:23,517 --> 00:49:23,927

Yeah.

:

00:49:24,027 --> 00:49:27,837

To and I thought, I just thought it

was so beautifully done the way those

:

00:49:27,837 --> 00:49:31,917

two Sort of really, I mean, like

you said, some of the scenes they

:

00:49:31,917 --> 00:49:33,147

had, those are my favorite scenes.

:

00:49:34,012 --> 00:49:36,502

Are the scenes that Jim

Caviezel has with Sean Penn.

:

00:49:36,502 --> 00:49:37,752

Those are the best scenes

of the whole movie.

:

00:49:37,792 --> 00:49:38,102

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:49:38,562 --> 00:49:44,412

Jerome: Both The Thin Red Line and Saving

Private Ryan have this concept of one man.

:

00:49:44,632 --> 00:49:47,432

But the difference between the two,

and I wrote this down too in my

:

00:49:47,432 --> 00:49:51,492

notes, Saving Private Ryan dictates

that one man is worth the mission.

:

00:49:52,022 --> 00:49:54,152

That one man is worth everything, right?

:

00:49:54,362 --> 00:49:56,732

If it's just one soldier

you can save, that's enough.

:

00:49:57,142 --> 00:49:58,972

The Thin Red Line is the exact opposite.

:

00:49:58,992 --> 00:50:02,422

Sean Penn throughout the whole movie is

like, What's one man in all this shit?

:

00:50:03,192 --> 00:50:03,472

We are nothing.

:

00:50:03,482 --> 00:50:04,212

We are nothing.

:

00:50:04,902 --> 00:50:06,602

We're disposable heroes, right?

:

00:50:07,142 --> 00:50:08,492

And he kind of dictates that.

:

00:50:08,492 --> 00:50:12,712

He's like, What do you think you can

do, one person, in all this madness?

:

00:50:13,777 --> 00:50:19,217

We're all gonna die here, and it

doesn't matter, you know what I mean?

:

00:50:19,737 --> 00:50:24,157

So it's like two war movies

that came out in the same year.

:

00:50:24,557 --> 00:50:27,557

The other thing is the thin red line,

I already talked about the significance

:

00:50:27,557 --> 00:50:30,447

of the title, but I also think

it's got a lot of ambiguity to it.

:

00:50:31,287 --> 00:50:32,487

I wrote down this too in my notes.

:

00:50:32,767 --> 00:50:36,227

It's the thin red line

between human and animal.

:

00:50:36,502 --> 00:50:36,892

Right?

:

00:50:37,162 --> 00:50:38,352

How that's thin.

:

00:50:38,422 --> 00:50:44,032

It's a thin line between us

and uncivilized beasts, right?

:

00:50:44,052 --> 00:50:47,752

The one guy is pulling other dude's

teeth out after he kills them, or,

:

00:50:47,902 --> 00:50:50,342

you know, he actually pulls them out

of the one guy that's still alive.

:

00:50:50,832 --> 00:50:52,852

He pulls his teeth out, right?

:

00:50:53,092 --> 00:50:54,862

To save them, as a souvenir.

:

00:50:55,512 --> 00:50:57,922

The thin red line between hero and coward.

:

00:50:58,122 --> 00:51:00,112

The thin line between life and death.

:

00:51:00,382 --> 00:51:02,422

Between sanity and madness.

:

00:51:02,432 --> 00:51:02,832

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:51:03,172 --> 00:51:03,612

Jerome: Right?

:

00:51:03,672 --> 00:51:07,572

Like, I mean, it's just, I don't know man.

:

00:51:07,602 --> 00:51:09,462

It's, I thought it was beautiful.

:

00:51:09,492 --> 00:51:10,882

I think it's a beautiful film.

:

00:51:11,572 --> 00:51:15,332

Chris: Now, this was the first

time I ever saw it, so...

:

00:51:16,702 --> 00:51:19,552

I gotta say, I should give

it another chance, but...

:

00:51:19,582 --> 00:51:20,152

Jerome: I think you should.

:

00:51:20,162 --> 00:51:21,862

Chris: That was my impression.

:

00:51:22,402 --> 00:51:24,802

Jerome: There's a couple of lines

I wrote down that I fucking love.

:

00:51:25,762 --> 00:51:26,202

Chris: Go for it.

:

00:51:26,822 --> 00:51:29,182

Jerome: One of them is Wit asks Welsh.

:

00:51:29,772 --> 00:51:33,522

Jimmy Caviezel asks Sean Penn's

character, Don't you ever feel lonely?

:

00:51:33,562 --> 00:51:35,242

And he goes, only around people.

:

00:51:36,432 --> 00:51:39,432

And it kind of dictates that.

:

00:51:39,772 --> 00:51:40,972

We're all, oh shit.

:

00:51:41,032 --> 00:51:41,762

I hit my microphone.

:

00:51:41,762 --> 00:51:42,552

I was getting so excited.

:

00:51:43,022 --> 00:51:44,532

It kind of feeds into that.

:

00:51:44,612 --> 00:51:46,032

We're all, we're all meaningless.

:

00:51:46,032 --> 00:51:46,562

It doesn't matter.

:

00:51:46,562 --> 00:51:47,222

We're all gonna die.

:

00:51:47,232 --> 00:51:47,742

You know what I mean?

:

00:51:47,742 --> 00:51:49,472

So, so it feeds into that.

:

00:51:49,512 --> 00:51:52,542

I only get lonely around

other people, right?

:

00:51:52,832 --> 00:51:56,672

But my, one of the funniest lines of

the whole film, when John Cusack's

:

00:51:56,692 --> 00:52:02,612

character is talking to Nick Nolte,

it's after they finally take the hill.

:

00:52:02,902 --> 00:52:03,252

Right?

:

00:52:03,652 --> 00:52:06,912

And he's like, oh, I'm gonna recommend

you for an award and blah blah blah.

:

00:52:07,092 --> 00:52:09,962

And then he says, oh, this isn't the

line, but one of the other funny lines

:

00:52:09,962 --> 00:52:12,762

is like, I'm not sure you'll get it,

but I'm gonna recommend it anyway!

:

00:52:13,592 --> 00:52:17,922

Like, so he's telling him all this

stuff, and John Cusack is like...

:

00:52:18,252 --> 00:52:19,682

You know, we gotta get

water up here, you know?

:

00:52:19,682 --> 00:52:20,462

Chris: Yeah, we need water.

:

00:52:20,522 --> 00:52:21,682

That's all I kept saying.

:

00:52:21,772 --> 00:52:23,742

Jerome: Yeah, he's like, you

know, they could die from it.

:

00:52:23,742 --> 00:52:25,652

And he's all, they could die

from enemy fire, you know?

:

00:52:25,662 --> 00:52:26,972

Like, he's just going on and on.

:

00:52:27,182 --> 00:52:29,492

And then he goes, You're

like a son to me, John.

:

00:52:29,752 --> 00:52:32,212

And then he looks at him and he

goes, You know what my son does?

:

00:52:32,992 --> 00:52:34,332

He's a bait salesman.

:

00:52:37,162 --> 00:52:37,692

That's just it.

:

00:52:37,692 --> 00:52:40,562

And there's like a moment of

silence, like right after he says it.

:

00:52:40,932 --> 00:52:45,392

But what I love about that line, and

I don't know how many people catch

:

00:52:45,392 --> 00:52:47,402

this, I thought about it immediately.

:

00:52:47,997 --> 00:52:50,107

What do you think he's

doing, that whole scene?

:

00:52:50,527 --> 00:52:52,697

He's a bait salesman in that scene.

:

00:52:52,707 --> 00:52:57,427

He's trying to sell John Cusack

into, this is why we're doing this.

:

00:52:58,097 --> 00:52:58,907

This is all that matters.

:

00:52:58,907 --> 00:53:00,747

It doesn't matter if the

men die from dehydration.

:

00:53:00,747 --> 00:53:01,537

It doesn't matter.

:

00:53:01,707 --> 00:53:04,537

As long as we take the

hill, that's what we need.

:

00:53:05,047 --> 00:53:09,617

So, to end it with a rather

disparaging comment about his

:

00:53:09,627 --> 00:53:11,107

son being a bait salesman.

:

00:53:11,107 --> 00:53:11,407

Chris: Right.

:

00:53:11,657 --> 00:53:13,927

Jerome: That's what he's been

doing for the last ten minutes.

:

00:53:15,482 --> 00:53:18,092

Chris: Yeah, I didn't catch,

that's a great observation.

:

00:53:18,902 --> 00:53:22,482

It was funny though, cause at

the end of that scene, he, he

:

00:53:22,782 --> 00:53:24,162

calls out to get them water.

:

00:53:24,952 --> 00:53:26,022

Have some water brought up here.

:

00:53:26,072 --> 00:53:29,102

Jerome: Yeah, yeah, get, goddammit,

send people down to the river

:

00:53:29,112 --> 00:53:31,312

and bring them, dude I love Nolte

in that movie, he's got that.

:

00:53:31,492 --> 00:53:35,992

Chris: Yeah, and I liked, I liked John

Cusack's his part in that scene, because

:

00:53:35,992 --> 00:53:40,552

he was just, he was just kind of stoned,

you know, just like, we need water.

:

00:53:40,882 --> 00:53:42,482

And he just, yep, yep, that's great.

:

00:53:42,522 --> 00:53:44,102

We need water, but we need water.

:

00:53:44,812 --> 00:53:45,022

Yeah.

:

00:53:45,682 --> 00:53:47,442

It finally just wore him down.

:

00:53:47,872 --> 00:53:51,652

Jerome: And as usual, the second half

after the midpoint scene, which the

:

00:53:51,652 --> 00:53:56,662

midpoint scene again, the false victory

is where Ben Chaplin's character

:

00:53:56,662 --> 00:53:58,792

discovers how to take out the, the gun.

:

00:53:58,842 --> 00:54:01,612

The, the, the, the hidden,

the foxhole, right?

:

00:54:01,652 --> 00:54:02,452

Right, right.

:

00:54:02,492 --> 00:54:05,292

He, he's the one that gets up there,

all the way up there, and he's like,

:

00:54:05,292 --> 00:54:07,112

Shit, it's just three or four dudes.

:

00:54:07,632 --> 00:54:08,992

It's just three or four

dudes inside there.

:

00:54:09,042 --> 00:54:10,372

We take them out, we got the hill.

:

00:54:11,202 --> 00:54:12,132

So, false victory.

:

00:54:12,142 --> 00:54:12,992

Everything seems great.

:

00:54:13,012 --> 00:54:16,542

Well, they find that there's

still more shit that's gonna hit

:

00:54:16,542 --> 00:54:18,112

the fan once they get up there.

:

00:54:18,512 --> 00:54:21,622

And once they, even after they take

it out, there's a lot of, as far as

:

00:54:21,622 --> 00:54:25,442

the story goes, on the second half

of that, Staros gets fired, right?

:

00:54:25,442 --> 00:54:27,702

There's that real downer scene

where Nick Nolte basically

:

00:54:27,732 --> 00:54:29,012

relieves him of his command.

:

00:54:30,067 --> 00:54:33,037

scene because he's just like,

he's been the good guy this whole

:

00:54:33,037 --> 00:54:35,507

movie, you know, and he's just

like, I just don't like seeing my

:

00:54:35,507 --> 00:54:37,567

men die and he even challenges him.

:

00:54:37,567 --> 00:54:38,467

He challenges Nick Nolte.

:

00:54:38,487 --> 00:54:40,787

He goes, have you ever had a

soldier die in your arm, sir?

:

00:54:41,117 --> 00:54:41,597

You know what I mean?

:

00:54:41,867 --> 00:54:42,127

Like,

:

00:54:42,247 --> 00:54:43,057

Chris: I know, right?

:

00:54:43,347 --> 00:54:47,057

Jerome: You know, and then, and it's

so, and it's so degrading the way

:

00:54:47,057 --> 00:54:50,207

he's like, you know, I'm going to,

I'm going to, I'm going to recommend

:

00:54:50,207 --> 00:54:51,917

you for the purple heart too.

:

00:54:52,137 --> 00:54:53,077

And he's like, why?

:

00:54:53,107 --> 00:54:55,257

And he goes, that scratch on your nose.

:

00:54:55,272 --> 00:54:55,832

You know what I mean?

:

00:54:55,832 --> 00:54:59,652

Like, oh god, like, there's, there's

been soldiers that have gotten a purple

:

00:54:59,652 --> 00:55:02,402

heart for losing limbs and you're gonna

give me one because I have a fucking

:

00:55:02,402 --> 00:55:03,802

scratch on my nose, you know what I mean?

:

00:55:03,802 --> 00:55:07,202

Like, like just, it's so insulting

and then of course we get into the,

:

00:55:07,322 --> 00:55:11,862

the Bell Private Bell, who's Ben

Chaplin's character, gets the letter

:

00:55:11,862 --> 00:55:13,212

that his wife wants a divorce.

:

00:55:13,417 --> 00:55:13,747

Right?

:

00:55:13,807 --> 00:55:16,217

She's been seeing an Air Force

captain or something, you know?

:

00:55:16,687 --> 00:55:19,927

That is like, after everything

this guy has gone through.

:

00:55:20,717 --> 00:55:23,747

And the only thing that's kept him

alive is those flashback thoughts

:

00:55:23,747 --> 00:55:25,087

of being with his wife again.

:

00:55:26,067 --> 00:55:29,567

And again, if you go back and watch

that, one of the last visions he has,

:

00:55:29,567 --> 00:55:34,437

or one of the last shots, that Terrence

Malick shows of the wife, You see the

:

00:55:34,437 --> 00:55:35,837

other man coming in the background.

:

00:55:36,907 --> 00:55:39,967

He's coming up the sidewalk

towards her and it's not him.

:

00:55:39,977 --> 00:55:40,987

It's not ben chaplain.

:

00:55:41,277 --> 00:55:45,927

So So right off the bat, you're like this

is before he gets the letter So when you

:

00:55:45,927 --> 00:55:50,457

see that shot, you're like who's that

dude, you know, and then like a scene

:

00:55:50,457 --> 00:55:54,032

or two later he gets the letter and

you're like, Aw, she's gonna leave him!

:

00:55:54,212 --> 00:55:55,342

Chris: Yeah, that's the worst.

:

00:55:55,402 --> 00:56:00,322

Jerome: Oh my god, I can't imagine

being a soldier in battle and having

:

00:56:00,322 --> 00:56:03,492

that fear you're gonna die any day now

and you get a, the only thing that's

:

00:56:03,492 --> 00:56:05,612

keeping you going is your wife back home.

:

00:56:05,622 --> 00:56:08,862

Chris: I feel like it's better to just

let him find out when he gets home.

:

00:56:10,452 --> 00:56:11,722

So rough, man.

:

00:56:11,952 --> 00:56:12,942

Jerome: So heartbreaking.

:

00:56:13,312 --> 00:56:15,932

And then, of course, we get to the

all is lost, which is the river scene.

:

00:56:16,212 --> 00:56:19,642

That again, where everything thought,

they thought they had it, right?

:

00:56:19,642 --> 00:56:21,042

They thought they had, they took the hill.

:

00:56:21,242 --> 00:56:22,452

They thought they had the island.

:

00:56:22,812 --> 00:56:24,982

But then the Japanese

overpowered them at the river.

:

00:56:25,512 --> 00:56:27,882

And, private wit has

to make that decision.

:

00:56:28,637 --> 00:56:32,007

I have to risk myself

for the platoon, right?

:

00:56:32,047 --> 00:56:34,387

I have to draw the Japanese away.

:

00:56:34,997 --> 00:56:37,567

And he, and he does, and so, and

then we get of course to the full

:

00:56:37,567 --> 00:56:42,037

circle of his theme, Am I gonna face

death like my mother did, with calm?

:

00:56:42,107 --> 00:56:45,107

And there's that great scene, it's a

terrible scene, but it's a great scene the

:

00:56:45,107 --> 00:56:47,547

way it's shot, where he faces his death.

:

00:56:48,807 --> 00:56:51,727

And all the Japanese are

surrounding him with their guns out.

:

00:56:52,127 --> 00:56:53,387

And he's just staring at them.

:

00:56:53,387 --> 00:56:54,587

And they're screaming at him, right?

:

00:56:54,587 --> 00:56:55,867

They're yelling at him in Japanese.

:

00:56:55,937 --> 00:56:57,277

He has no idea what they're saying.

:

00:56:57,707 --> 00:57:01,547

But he's just staring at them and

he's like, at this moment he realizes,

:

00:57:01,787 --> 00:57:02,317

Chris: This is it.

:

00:57:02,817 --> 00:57:03,397

Jerome: This is it.

:

00:57:03,697 --> 00:57:05,457

Now am I gonna be taken captive?

:

00:57:05,837 --> 00:57:07,717

Am I gonna fight and scream like a coward?

:

00:57:08,167 --> 00:57:10,087

Or am I just gonna raise my

gun and let them shoot me?

:

00:57:10,487 --> 00:57:11,777

I've done my part.

:

00:57:12,377 --> 00:57:15,267

I've pulled them away so

that my platoon can get away.

:

00:57:15,377 --> 00:57:15,697

Yeah.

:

00:57:15,967 --> 00:57:16,567

And he did.

:

00:57:16,577 --> 00:57:17,687

He was successful.

:

00:57:18,172 --> 00:57:20,982

You know, and then there's that, you

know, of course, the real sad scene

:

00:57:20,982 --> 00:57:24,152

where they, they bury him after that

and Welsh, Sean Penn's character,

:

00:57:24,782 --> 00:57:26,402

is the last one at the grave.

:

00:57:26,482 --> 00:57:26,612

Yeah.

:

00:57:26,622 --> 00:57:26,982

Right?

:

00:57:27,332 --> 00:57:28,982

And he says, where's your spark now?

:

00:57:29,112 --> 00:57:31,032

Like, and he starts to break down.

:

00:57:31,252 --> 00:57:31,572

Yeah.

:

00:57:32,132 --> 00:57:34,882

You know, this is a private that

he hated the whole movie, but

:

00:57:34,882 --> 00:57:36,712

they started to build that bond.

:

00:57:36,752 --> 00:57:37,032

Yeah.

:

00:57:37,122 --> 00:57:38,932

And then at the end he has to bury him.

:

00:57:39,562 --> 00:57:43,762

Chris: And I think when, when he said

that, where's your spark now, you

:

00:57:43,762 --> 00:57:49,392

know, I felt like in spite of hit

the persona that, that he carried.

:

00:57:49,882 --> 00:57:51,022

Sean Penn's character.

:

00:57:51,462 --> 00:57:51,712

Huh.

:

00:57:52,082 --> 00:57:55,752

In spite of that, there is

something about Caviezel's

:

00:57:55,782 --> 00:57:58,732

character that he wished he had.

:

00:57:58,922 --> 00:58:01,442

Jerome: Absolutely, because what does

he say throughout the whole movie?

:

00:58:01,442 --> 00:58:02,632

There's another world out there.

:

00:58:03,292 --> 00:58:05,042

And Sean Penn keeps telling

him in the whole movie, There's

:

00:58:05,052 --> 00:58:06,502

no other world but this one.

:

00:58:06,632 --> 00:58:06,882

Right.

:

00:58:07,072 --> 00:58:09,482

And in this one, a man is nothing.

:

00:58:09,612 --> 00:58:09,912

Yeah.

:

00:58:09,992 --> 00:58:10,942

We're going to die.

:

00:58:11,462 --> 00:58:12,822

And that's just what we do.

:

00:58:13,052 --> 00:58:15,132

And he's like, you're wrong,

there's another world.

:

00:58:15,152 --> 00:58:16,792

And what was that other world he found?

:

00:58:17,202 --> 00:58:21,562

Was the village, where nobody fought,

nobody, everybody loved each other,

:

00:58:21,582 --> 00:58:24,792

everybody helped build forts, you

know, the huts and everything,

:

00:58:24,792 --> 00:58:26,062

and they lived in paradise.

:

00:58:26,382 --> 00:58:29,132

And then what happens, they start

showing these shots in the second

:

00:58:29,132 --> 00:58:32,022

half of the film, the villagers

are starting to fight each other.

:

00:58:32,192 --> 00:58:33,742

They're starting to get in arguments.

:

00:58:33,892 --> 00:58:37,512

And he sees that, and he's like,

fuck, we are ruining paradise.

:

00:58:38,002 --> 00:58:38,392

Right?

:

00:58:38,767 --> 00:58:41,587

And again, we talked about it in

the Minari Coast podcast about

:

00:58:41,587 --> 00:58:42,547

the destruction of paradise.

:

00:58:42,847 --> 00:58:44,277

That is happening here.

:

00:58:44,807 --> 00:58:45,097

Right.

:

00:58:45,107 --> 00:58:45,627

You know?

:

00:58:45,717 --> 00:58:48,657

That they did that to that island

and those villagers who lived

:

00:58:48,657 --> 00:58:50,577

in peace for thousands of years.

:

00:58:51,247 --> 00:58:52,877

And then war comes in.

:

00:58:53,137 --> 00:58:55,217

That's not just us, you

know, it's the Japanese too.

:

00:58:55,217 --> 00:58:59,737

But, it, war comes in

and obliterates paradise.

:

00:59:00,137 --> 00:59:02,207

Chris: Cause they just happen

to be in the right place.

:

00:59:02,757 --> 00:59:04,477

Jerome: And at the beginning

of the film when he's talking

:

00:59:04,477 --> 00:59:05,557

to that one village woman.

:

00:59:06,102 --> 00:59:06,642

You know what I mean?

:

00:59:06,687 --> 00:59:07,007

Mm-Hmm.

:

00:59:07,117 --> 00:59:10,602

. He's the, the kids are all playful

and smiling at him near the

:

00:59:10,602 --> 00:59:13,092

second half when he gets back,

when, when he sees them again.

:

00:59:13,122 --> 00:59:14,142

They're all afraid of him now.

:

00:59:14,202 --> 00:59:14,622

Yeah.

:

00:59:14,942 --> 00:59:16,022

And he can't go near him.

:

00:59:16,112 --> 00:59:18,842

They, they kind of pull away when

he goes near the, when he goes near

:

00:59:18,842 --> 00:59:21,682

him and then he sees the other, the

adult villagers, that's where they're

:

00:59:21,682 --> 00:59:24,292

arguing with each other and fighting

something they never did before.

:

00:59:24,322 --> 00:59:24,592

Right.

:

00:59:24,982 --> 00:59:27,722

So you could see the destruction Yeah.

:

00:59:27,722 --> 00:59:28,712

Of, of that paradise.

:

00:59:29,122 --> 00:59:30,772

I think it's a fantastic film.

:

00:59:30,977 --> 00:59:31,257

I love it.

:

00:59:31,567 --> 00:59:32,097

It's so beautiful.

:

00:59:32,097 --> 00:59:33,022

Chris: So I guess the point is.

:

00:59:33,317 --> 00:59:34,227

War sucks.

:

00:59:36,607 --> 00:59:37,697

Jerome: You nailed it, Chris.

:

00:59:37,727 --> 00:59:38,407

You nailed it.

:

00:59:39,277 --> 00:59:43,127

Took us six hours of movie

watching and you nailed the point.

:

00:59:43,887 --> 00:59:44,357

Yeah.

:

00:59:44,507 --> 00:59:48,047

But uh, but no, I guess the point again

when we talk about script structures,

:

00:59:48,067 --> 00:59:53,347

even in abstract journey films like

this, you can still find the points.

:

00:59:53,367 --> 00:59:54,847

They're still there, right?

:

00:59:54,947 --> 00:59:55,257

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:59:55,537 --> 01:00:00,807

Jerome: Theme, and, and spiritual

goals, and turning points, and midpoint

:

01:00:00,807 --> 01:00:02,437

scenes, they're all still there.

:

01:00:02,437 --> 01:00:03,727

All the points are still there.

:

01:00:03,737 --> 01:00:04,047

Yep.

:

01:00:04,677 --> 01:00:07,777

Even with somebody like Terrence

Malick, who people consider to be such

:

01:00:07,777 --> 01:00:12,437

a whack job when he fakes films, you

know, there's a movie called Tree of

:

01:00:12,437 --> 01:00:15,637

Life, also with Sean Penn, and people

watch the movie and they're like, I

:

01:00:15,637 --> 01:00:16,967

have no idea what this movie's about!

:

01:00:17,197 --> 01:00:17,687

You know what I mean?

:

01:00:17,687 --> 01:00:17,867

Like...

:

01:00:18,762 --> 01:00:23,172

Even an abstract filmmaker like that

can still nail those points home.

:

01:00:23,722 --> 01:00:27,172

So, if you haven't seen them, folks,

All Quiet on the Western Front,

:

01:00:27,232 --> 01:00:30,562

:

:

01:00:30,742 --> 01:00:33,612

We also mentioned, of course,

Saving Private Ryan several times.

:

01:00:33,792 --> 01:00:35,872

If you haven't seen

that, see that one too.

:

01:00:36,182 --> 01:00:36,502

But...

:

01:00:37,137 --> 01:00:41,167

I think the Thin Red Line and All Quiet

on the Western Front are more similar

:

01:00:41,167 --> 01:00:42,297

than people are willing to admit.

:

01:00:42,297 --> 01:00:43,247

Chris: It is a great pairing.

:

01:00:43,477 --> 01:00:48,587

And I will remind everyone that All Quiet

on the Western Front is a Netflix film.

:

01:00:48,607 --> 01:00:51,357

So you can stream it on

Netflix if you subscribe.

:

01:00:52,237 --> 01:00:56,287

And we had to rent a Thin Red Line.

:

01:00:56,287 --> 01:00:57,057

I can't remember.

:

01:00:57,087 --> 01:00:58,967

I think we just rented it

on Amazon or something.

:

01:00:59,897 --> 01:01:02,387

Jerome: I just had to go to my

DVD collection and there it was.

:

01:01:04,257 --> 01:01:05,927

Chris: I gotta get me a DVD player.

:

01:01:05,927 --> 01:01:07,117

I don't even have one in my house.

:

01:01:07,527 --> 01:01:10,347

We had an Xbox for the longest

time, but they all moved out,

:

01:01:10,357 --> 01:01:11,707

so I don't even have an Xbox

:

01:01:11,707 --> 01:01:11,887

anymore.

:

01:01:11,897 --> 01:01:14,827

Jerome: My my, well, it's a Blu

ray player, but it plays DVDs, too.

:

01:01:15,097 --> 01:01:18,917

But I remember back in 98, man, I was

just graduating college at the time, and I

:

01:01:18,917 --> 01:01:20,657

remember the poster for The Thin Red Line.

:

01:01:20,657 --> 01:01:21,417

I loved it.

:

01:01:21,837 --> 01:01:25,017

If you, if you go into IMDb and

look up the film, I think the

:

01:01:25,017 --> 01:01:26,757

picture they show is the poster.

:

01:01:27,237 --> 01:01:28,997

And it's, it's all the helmets.

:

01:01:29,657 --> 01:01:32,947

You, you just see, you just see a

bunch of soldiers helmets in the grass.

:

01:01:33,597 --> 01:01:36,417

And you see one eye, like you

see one soldier looking up,

:

01:01:36,447 --> 01:01:38,267

like looking up from the helmet.

:

01:01:38,337 --> 01:01:39,157

Oh, yeah.

:

01:01:39,217 --> 01:01:41,777

Yeah, it's such a great,

that was the whole poster.

:

01:01:41,787 --> 01:01:44,117

Yeah, that's a great, I love that shot.

:

01:01:44,607 --> 01:01:46,287

And and look at all the names there, man.

:

01:01:46,287 --> 01:01:47,207

Read off those names, read off those

:

01:01:47,207 --> 01:01:47,537

names.

:

01:01:49,252 --> 01:01:54,582

Chris: Sean Penn, Adrian Brody,

Jim Caviezel, Ben Chaplin,

:

01:01:54,892 --> 01:01:59,792

George Clooney, John Cusack,

Woody Harrelson, Elias Coteas.

:

01:02:00,192 --> 01:02:01,312

Elias Coteas.

:

01:02:01,362 --> 01:02:02,782

Oh, Elias Coteas.

:

01:02:02,782 --> 01:02:04,072

Sorry, I butchered that.

:

01:02:04,082 --> 01:02:04,942

That's Staros.

:

01:02:04,962 --> 01:02:05,292

That's Staros.

:

01:02:06,347 --> 01:02:08,597

Yeah, and Nick Nolte, John C.

:

01:02:08,597 --> 01:02:12,577

Reilly, John Travolta, and there's

a lot more that you'd recognize

:

01:02:12,587 --> 01:02:13,777

that aren't even listed there.

:

01:02:13,847 --> 01:02:16,487

Jerome: So, another thing about

Elias Katea, so those of you who

:

01:02:16,487 --> 01:02:19,357

don't know who he is, you would know

him if you were into 80s movies.

:

01:02:19,637 --> 01:02:21,487

He was in Some Kind of Wonderful.

:

01:02:21,897 --> 01:02:25,217

He was the uh, he was the guy

that's always in detention.

:

01:02:26,107 --> 01:02:29,757

He was the, the bad, like like

the biker heavy metal rocker guy.

:

01:02:30,327 --> 01:02:31,727

Uh, In that movie.

:

01:02:31,727 --> 01:02:34,397

He also played Yeah, he

played you, basically.

:

01:02:34,637 --> 01:02:36,497

Okay, so before we get to Six Degrees.

:

01:02:36,557 --> 01:02:36,857

Yeah.

:

01:02:36,877 --> 01:02:38,807

I have some I have uh, I wanted to mention

:

01:02:38,817 --> 01:02:40,237

Chris: I'm looking forward to six Degrees.

:

01:02:40,237 --> 01:02:41,837

I want to see how you pull this one off.

:

01:02:41,957 --> 01:02:43,407

Jerome: So, well, before we get to that.

:

01:02:43,737 --> 01:02:50,037

So, we so a little bit of trivia on

uh, Adrian Brody's character of Fife.

:

01:02:50,447 --> 01:02:51,267

Private Fife.

:

01:02:51,327 --> 01:02:51,677

Huh.

:

01:02:52,567 --> 01:02:55,704

So, Adrien Brody is an Academy award

winner he won best actor the movie,

:

01:02:55,724 --> 01:02:57,784

The Pianist, a film by Roman Polanski.

:

01:02:57,784 --> 01:02:57,964

Chris: Right, right.

:

01:02:58,187 --> 01:03:00,967

Jerome: Which is interesting if you go

back to all those names you just read

:

01:03:00,967 --> 01:03:02,397

off, how many of them are Oscar winners.

:

01:03:02,397 --> 01:03:02,887

It's crazy.

:

01:03:03,097 --> 01:03:09,982

But anyway, so so Adrian Brody, the first

cut of this film, was five hours long.

:

01:03:11,882 --> 01:03:11,942

Chris: Oh my god.

:

01:03:12,702 --> 01:03:16,592

Jerome: And the studio was like, obviously

you're out of your fucking mind because

:

01:03:16,592 --> 01:03:19,722

we cannot play this in theater it won't

make any money because we can only

:

01:03:19,722 --> 01:03:22,022

show like two airings in a day, right?

:

01:03:22,112 --> 01:03:22,872

Two or three tops.

:

01:03:23,142 --> 01:03:25,992

You gotta, you gotta trim this down,

nobody's gonna sit through five hours.

:

01:03:26,472 --> 01:03:29,632

So he trims it down to

about three hours, right?

:

01:03:31,297 --> 01:03:34,847

Adrian Brody's character

was supposed to be the lead.

:

01:03:35,017 --> 01:03:36,307

Chris: Oh my gosh, really?

:

01:03:36,317 --> 01:03:36,767

Jerome: Fife.

:

01:03:36,977 --> 01:03:37,457

Fife.

:

01:03:37,487 --> 01:03:39,237

Private Fife was supposed to be the lead.

:

01:03:39,357 --> 01:03:42,607

He knew none of this

about it being cut down.

:

01:03:42,937 --> 01:03:48,687

He takes his family on opening night on

the red carpet to the premiere of the

:

01:03:48,687 --> 01:03:53,327

Thin Red Line to say, I'm the lead in

this war movie and it's his big break.

:

01:03:53,427 --> 01:03:54,947

Chris: Oh man.

:

01:03:55,537 --> 01:04:01,237

Jerome: He goes in there, they sit

out, he's in all of four scenes.

:

01:04:01,237 --> 01:04:02,157

And he barely has any speaking parts.

:

01:04:02,167 --> 01:04:03,447

Yeah, that's rough.

:

01:04:03,447 --> 01:04:05,497

He's got barely any speaking parts.

:

01:04:05,927 --> 01:04:09,577

And he walked out of there

completely blindsided.

:

01:04:09,577 --> 01:04:11,312

He said he felt embarrassed.

:

01:04:11,562 --> 01:04:13,142

He had to tell his family.

:

01:04:13,612 --> 01:04:15,592

He's like, I had no idea.

:

01:04:15,932 --> 01:04:17,092

All my shit was cut.

:

01:04:17,492 --> 01:04:20,721

In addition to him, his, a lot

of his scenes being cut, Mickey

:

01:04:20,721 --> 01:04:22,042

Rourke is in the film too.

:

01:04:22,422 --> 01:04:23,802

Bill Pullman is in the film.

:

01:04:23,992 --> 01:04:25,432

And their, their scenes are all cut.

:

01:04:26,487 --> 01:04:30,887

I heard that there's a special edition

blu ray where a scene with Mickey Rourke

:

01:04:30,887 --> 01:04:35,117

in it is is in the deleted scene So

I want to buy that so I can watch it.

:

01:04:35,117 --> 01:04:37,957

I want to watch that I would

love to find if there is the five

:

01:04:37,957 --> 01:04:39,217

hour version out there somewhere.

:

01:04:39,217 --> 01:04:41,287

I'm gonna buy that and

watch that too, right?

:

01:04:41,387 --> 01:04:46,277

But yeah, so it turns out that Jim

Caviezel Ended up being the lead.

:

01:04:46,297 --> 01:04:49,787

Yeah, and he later said that that's

the film that launched his career.

:

01:04:50,027 --> 01:04:54,762

Sure Because after that he did that

movie frequency Remember that movie?

:

01:04:54,772 --> 01:04:56,462

Chris: Yeah, that's a great movie.

:

01:04:56,782 --> 01:04:57,582

That's a time travel movie.

:

01:04:57,582 --> 01:04:58,582

I love that movie.

:

01:04:59,212 --> 01:05:00,342

Jerome: Well, kind of time travel.

:

01:05:00,342 --> 01:05:01,392

It's through a ham radio.

:

01:05:01,592 --> 01:05:04,562

Chris: Yeah, but he's talking to his

dad who died 20 years ago or whatever.

:

01:05:05,392 --> 01:05:06,202

I loved it.

:

01:05:06,202 --> 01:05:06,971

was a great film.

:

01:05:06,971 --> 01:05:08,622

Jerome: And then, of course,

after that was Passion.

:

01:05:08,832 --> 01:05:12,971

So, I mean, he credits the Thin

Red Line for launching his career.

:

01:05:12,971 --> 01:05:13,352

Yeah.

:

01:05:13,792 --> 01:05:14,412

So, yeah.

:

01:05:15,757 --> 01:05:16,687

I don't know, I loved it.

:

01:05:16,697 --> 01:05:20,547

So when you texted me that you were,

that you were such, you were so down on

:

01:05:20,547 --> 01:05:24,057

this film, I was like, I'm gonna reach

through this phone and strangle him.

:

01:05:24,207 --> 01:05:27,757

Chris: Well, I had already, I had

already seen I had already seen

:

01:05:27,757 --> 01:05:29,117

All Quiet on the Western Front.

:

01:05:29,596 --> 01:05:35,727

When I saw A Thin Red Line, I was like,

oh man, I knew how much I loved, All

:

01:05:35,727 --> 01:05:39,267

Quiet on the Western Front, you know,

and then when I saw Thin Red Line, I

:

01:05:39,267 --> 01:05:45,327

was like, oh my god, this is slow, and

then the scene, oh, no, artsy, oh, far.

:

01:05:45,357 --> 01:05:47,067

Jerome: Okay, one second, one

second, I know we don't have much

:

01:05:47,067 --> 01:05:48,187

time left, but I gotta do this.

:

01:05:49,127 --> 01:05:52,437

Okay, so, because if I keep going

on this proper twelve, then it

:

01:05:52,437 --> 01:05:55,267

will be, it'll be more than just

Conor McGregor kicking my ass.

:

01:05:57,307 --> 01:06:01,467

But what I love is that Scorsese named

it his second favorite film of the 90s.

:

01:06:01,507 --> 01:06:04,977

I think his first one was The Bicycle

Thief which I believe is a foreign film.

:

01:06:04,977 --> 01:06:06,377

But anyway I haven't seen it.

:

01:06:06,387 --> 01:06:10,287

But that he for him naming this as

his second favorite film of the 90s is

:

01:06:10,287 --> 01:06:13,607

very telling because Scorsese loves...

:

01:06:14,257 --> 01:06:17,967

Movies that draw out emotions

simply by their shots, right?

:

01:06:19,087 --> 01:06:22,407

And again, like I said, this is one

of those films like All Quiet on

:

01:06:22,407 --> 01:06:24,987

the Western Front that are very,

they're like abstract paintings.

:

01:06:25,327 --> 01:06:28,607

They're just artistically

beautiful to watch, right?

:

01:06:28,977 --> 01:06:31,267

And, and even though they come with...

:

01:06:32,392 --> 01:06:34,082

Such a downer of war.

:

01:06:34,792 --> 01:06:37,452

There's so much beauty

in the human spirit.

:

01:06:37,702 --> 01:06:38,162

Sure.

:

01:06:38,392 --> 01:06:40,892

And I think both of these

films really show that.

:

01:06:41,072 --> 01:06:44,732

And a special shout out, again,

to the actor that played Private

:

01:06:44,732 --> 01:06:46,942

Bomber for his first role ever.

:

01:06:46,962 --> 01:06:47,971

Chris: My God, yeah.

:

01:06:47,982 --> 01:06:49,162

Jerome: Man, did he nail it.

:

01:06:49,242 --> 01:06:50,792

He nailed it big time.

:

01:06:50,882 --> 01:06:53,162

Chris: Yeah, Even without

dialogue, and like I said, I

:

01:06:53,172 --> 01:06:55,562

watched it in German both times.

:

01:06:55,971 --> 01:07:00,132

We started out watching it with

the English dubbed in, and my boys

:

01:07:00,132 --> 01:07:01,842

asked me to change it, so we did.

:

01:07:03,122 --> 01:07:10,122

And I, I just loved it, and so I did, re

watching it in German, I was, I paused

:

01:07:10,122 --> 01:07:14,382

a couple times and jumped back to see

what he actually said, because visually

:

01:07:14,382 --> 01:07:15,822

you just get caught up in the film.

:

01:07:16,262 --> 01:07:16,492

Yeah.

:

01:07:16,522 --> 01:07:18,322

You know, and so I wasn't even...

:

01:07:18,752 --> 01:07:22,092

I forgot to read, you know, because

I was just caught up in the film.

:

01:07:22,532 --> 01:07:25,412

And I had to go back a couple of

times, re watching it, saying, Oh,

:

01:07:25,412 --> 01:07:28,132

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know,

reading, reading the subtitles.

:

01:07:28,492 --> 01:07:33,282

but yeah, this, the visual, like

the, I don't know what it is, I

:

01:07:33,282 --> 01:07:37,992

mean, just the, he captures the

horror of war right on his face.

:

01:07:38,397 --> 01:07:40,147

You know, and it's just brilliant.

:

01:07:40,717 --> 01:07:46,547

Jerome: Well, and again, to, to that

point on Jim Caviezel, he is very,

:

01:07:46,547 --> 01:07:51,687

very similar, where that was one of

his first big roles, and how, I mean,

:

01:07:51,697 --> 01:07:55,047

you see so many times in that film he

looks like he's about to cry, right?

:

01:07:55,087 --> 01:07:57,977

Like he's, he's, he's got that

thing that he does with his mouth,

:

01:07:58,037 --> 01:08:00,197

you know where like you're getting

choked up but you want to hide it?

:

01:08:00,582 --> 01:08:04,152

He does that several times in the movie,

and you can kind of see his eyes getting

:

01:08:04,152 --> 01:08:07,892

a little glossy, but he fights it,

because he's got to be tough guy, right?

:

01:08:07,922 --> 01:08:11,182

He's got to show that it doesn't bother

him, that any because he even says to Sean

:

01:08:11,182 --> 01:08:12,922

Penn, There's nothing you can do to me.

:

01:08:12,922 --> 01:08:13,432

You know what I mean?

:

01:08:13,432 --> 01:08:16,582

Like, I'm twice the man you are, he

tells him in the beginning of the movie.

:

01:08:16,591 --> 01:08:17,122

You know what I mean?

:

01:08:17,122 --> 01:08:20,952

Like, so he's got this I got

to be tough in front of Welsh,

:

01:08:21,032 --> 01:08:22,562

who's his superior officer.

:

01:08:23,542 --> 01:08:26,602

But he has that emotion on his face.

:

01:08:26,622 --> 01:08:26,841

Yeah.

:

01:08:27,051 --> 01:08:30,182

And I could see why it launched his

career because Jim Caviezel's got one

:

01:08:30,182 --> 01:08:31,841

of those faces that carries emotion.

:

01:08:32,042 --> 01:08:35,482

My god, if we just did a movie,

we could do a podcast on Passion.

:

01:08:35,822 --> 01:08:36,091

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:08:36,131 --> 01:08:39,202

Jerome: I mean, he is so

amazing in that movie.

:

01:08:39,252 --> 01:08:41,102

That was, I mean, I cried.

:

01:08:41,102 --> 01:08:42,082

I saw Passion.

:

01:08:42,221 --> 01:08:45,702

It opened, not on a Friday, I don't

know if you remember, the year it

:

01:08:45,702 --> 01:08:47,142

came out, it opened on Ash Wednesday.

:

01:08:48,017 --> 01:08:53,216

And I saw it after I got my ashes,

and I, I cried in the theater, dude.

:

01:08:53,216 --> 01:08:55,437

Like, it was so amazing.

:

01:08:55,447 --> 01:08:56,907

Chris: Yeah, we saw it

in the theater, too.

:

01:08:56,907 --> 01:09:01,077

And that, that's another movie you

watch it in a foreign language.

:

01:09:01,687 --> 01:09:03,307

You know, on the big, on the big screen.

:

01:09:03,307 --> 01:09:04,617

They didn't even have it dubbed.

:

01:09:05,197 --> 01:09:05,447

Yeah.

:

01:09:05,477 --> 01:09:08,466

I don't know if they have it

dubbed now on the, on DVD.

:

01:09:08,557 --> 01:09:09,407

Jerome: I don't think so.

:

01:09:09,756 --> 01:09:10,096

Or if they just...

:

01:09:10,997 --> 01:09:12,807

At best, at best it's subtitled.

:

01:09:12,846 --> 01:09:15,547

Chris: And what was wild

about that one is, like...

:

01:09:16,282 --> 01:09:23,881

MeL Gibson, he basically had to get the

actors to learn an extinct language.

:

01:09:23,971 --> 01:09:24,282

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:09:24,341 --> 01:09:26,051

Chris: Because Aramaic is not used.

:

01:09:26,062 --> 01:09:26,832

Jerome: It's a dead language.

:

01:09:26,832 --> 01:09:27,082

Yeah.

:

01:09:27,082 --> 01:09:27,932

Chris: It's a dead language.

:

01:09:28,242 --> 01:09:28,422

Yeah.

:

01:09:28,422 --> 01:09:31,622

And so it was wild to, to see that.

:

01:09:31,862 --> 01:09:38,172

So, and you had, you had Aramaic, you had

Hebrew, and you had Greek being spoken.

:

01:09:38,947 --> 01:09:43,377

As the only dialogue in the

film, you know, and it worked.

:

01:09:43,636 --> 01:09:45,407

I mean, it was all subtitles, you know.

:

01:09:46,136 --> 01:09:49,077

But yeah, that was another

one that I just loved.

:

01:09:49,117 --> 01:09:51,127

Jerome: Another little

funny subplot on that one.

:

01:09:51,527 --> 01:09:55,337

Monica Bellucci, who plays, I

think, his mother Mary, right?

:

01:09:56,387 --> 01:09:57,667

No, she plays Mary Magdalene.

:

01:09:57,727 --> 01:10:00,002

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

01:10:00,422 --> 01:10:03,952

Mel Gibson said in an interview one

time, he's like, We had the darndest

:

01:10:03,982 --> 01:10:05,502

time trying to make her ugly.

:

01:10:05,642 --> 01:10:06,422

We couldn't do it.

:

01:10:06,682 --> 01:10:10,702

Cause she's so beautiful, he's like,

We put mud on her face, We covered

:

01:10:10,702 --> 01:10:14,252

her in these rags, He's like, She

looked beautiful in every scene.

:

01:10:14,802 --> 01:10:19,302

He's like, We tried to make her look not

so beautiful, And it didn't work at all.

:

01:10:19,592 --> 01:10:21,812

Because her beauty just

comes right through.

:

01:10:22,122 --> 01:10:23,122

So a little funny plot there.

:

01:10:23,122 --> 01:10:24,812

But anyway, alright, so you

have a six degrees for me.

:

01:10:24,862 --> 01:10:26,912

Chris: Yeah, so let me,

hold on, let me pull it up.

:

01:10:27,407 --> 01:10:33,897

Jerome: You made it one crucial, and

your, and your attempt to finally win.

:

01:10:33,897 --> 01:10:35,167

Chris: I know, I know how you did it.

:

01:10:35,167 --> 01:10:35,997

You, you pit.

:

01:10:36,077 --> 01:10:39,627

I didn't do it myself, but

I, I, so let me just read

:

01:10:39,627 --> 01:10:40,177

it, okay?

:

01:10:40,837 --> 01:10:42,907

Jerome: Let me guess, alright,

alright, alright, you, you

:

01:10:42,907 --> 01:10:43,957

tell me where you went wrong.

:

01:10:45,237 --> 01:10:46,657

First of all, tell, what are the actors?

:

01:10:46,817 --> 01:10:48,987

Chris: Felix how do you

pronounce his last name?

:

01:10:49,087 --> 01:10:49,857

Kammerer?

:

01:10:49,857 --> 01:10:52,607

Jerome: I, I don't know dude,

like I said, first time, first

:

01:10:52,607 --> 01:10:53,497

time he's ever been in a movie.

:

01:10:53,497 --> 01:10:54,357

Felix Kammerer.

:

01:10:54,697 --> 01:10:57,997

He plays Paul Balmer, I

think it's yeah, Camerer,

:

01:10:58,397 --> 01:10:59,667

Camerer.

:

01:10:59,667 --> 01:11:00,777

Chris: Yeah, on the Western Front.

:

01:11:01,047 --> 01:11:01,437

Yes.

:

01:11:01,497 --> 01:11:04,177

And Will Wallace, who's

in A Thin Red Line.

:

01:11:04,237 --> 01:11:06,427

Yes, he I don't even barely

remember him, because he Yeah,

:

01:11:06,427 --> 01:11:07,727

he, he plays Private Hope.

:

01:11:07,727 --> 01:11:09,787

He's far down the cast list.

:

01:11:09,997 --> 01:11:11,747

Jerome: Well, with that

cast list, who wouldn't be

:

01:11:11,777 --> 01:11:12,457

Chris: Yeah, on IMDb, so

:

01:11:12,457 --> 01:11:13,387

Jerome: Who wouldn't be far down.

:

01:11:13,397 --> 01:11:16,417

Chris: When I was, like, looking at

the cast list thinking, six degrees,

:

01:11:16,417 --> 01:11:17,857

oh my god, who am I gonna pick?

:

01:11:18,027 --> 01:11:20,662

These are all A list actors.

:

01:11:20,662 --> 01:11:22,062

And I'm like, come on, this sucks.

:

01:11:22,062 --> 01:11:25,272

I start scrolling, on IMDb.

:

01:11:25,582 --> 01:11:26,762

Will Wallace.

:

01:11:26,792 --> 01:11:27,512

I don't know this guy.

:

01:11:28,522 --> 01:11:29,312

What was he in?

:

01:11:29,562 --> 01:11:31,082

Oh, these movies sucked.

:

01:11:31,392 --> 01:11:32,292

Okay, cool.

:

01:11:32,622 --> 01:11:36,772

But there is one movie that he

was in that you probably used.

:

01:11:37,622 --> 01:11:38,002

Jerome: Well, no.

:

01:11:38,562 --> 01:11:39,842

He was actually in a few movies.

:

01:11:39,862 --> 01:11:41,502

That's not, that wasn't the problem.

:

01:11:42,142 --> 01:11:46,282

What happened was you, you said,

and generally you don't We don't use

:

01:11:46,282 --> 01:11:47,582

the movies that we're talking about.

:

01:11:47,592 --> 01:11:48,702

Chris: Yes, true.

:

01:11:48,712 --> 01:11:50,452

But, but we had to.

:

01:11:50,462 --> 01:11:53,902

We had to with this one because

All Quiet on the Western Front

:

01:11:54,132 --> 01:11:55,822

is the only movie he was ever in.

:

01:11:55,822 --> 01:11:57,672

So you had to use that one for this one.

:

01:11:57,972 --> 01:11:59,772

Jerome: But he, but you

know who was in that film.

:

01:12:00,632 --> 01:12:03,162

Who played Erzberger was Daniel Bruhl.

:

01:12:03,742 --> 01:12:07,472

He played the, the government politician

guy that was trying to end the war.

:

01:12:07,772 --> 01:12:09,382

He's been in a lot of shit!

:

01:12:10,152 --> 01:12:11,682

He was in Marvel movies!

:

01:12:11,692 --> 01:12:13,732

He's been in all the Captain

America Civil War movies!

:

01:12:14,742 --> 01:12:15,462

He was in a lot!

:

01:12:15,572 --> 01:12:19,892

He's been So, and he was one of the

main soldiers in Inglourious Bastards.

:

01:12:20,232 --> 01:12:24,892

With Brad Pitt, who was in Once

Upon a Time in Hollywood with Dakota

:

01:12:24,892 --> 01:12:30,942

Fanning, who was in I Am Sam, not

just with Sean Penn, but Will Wallace.

:

01:12:30,952 --> 01:12:31,832

Chris: Yeah, with Will Wallace.

:

01:12:31,932 --> 01:12:34,072

I knew you were going to use I

Am Sam, because that's the only

:

01:12:34,072 --> 01:12:35,352

other film that guy's been in.

:

01:12:35,572 --> 01:12:36,972

Jerome: Oh, no, he's

been in several others.

:

01:12:36,992 --> 01:12:37,402

Chris: Has he?

:

01:12:37,442 --> 01:12:37,892

Was he?

:

01:12:38,512 --> 01:12:41,702

When I finally got to his IMDB and

started looking, I'm like, He has

:

01:12:41,702 --> 01:12:42,982

been in a bunch of shitty movies.

:

01:12:43,312 --> 01:12:44,622

Oh, wait, I am Sam.

:

01:12:44,852 --> 01:12:47,112

Which, I still think was a

shitty movie, but at least

:

01:12:47,112 --> 01:12:48,202

there were some big names in it.

:

01:12:48,562 --> 01:12:49,482

Jerome: Yeah, well, yeah.

:

01:12:49,722 --> 01:12:51,812

Michelle Pfeiffer and

Sean Penn, to name a few.

:

01:12:51,962 --> 01:12:53,052

Chris: Sean Penn went full retard.

:

01:12:54,142 --> 01:12:55,372

Jerome: But also, but, oh, stop, stop.

:

01:12:55,822 --> 01:12:57,582

You're not gonna do the

Tropic Thunder line.

:

01:12:58,082 --> 01:12:59,022

You know what's funny?

:

01:12:59,472 --> 01:13:01,122

Since we always go off on tangents.

:

01:13:02,067 --> 01:13:03,177

Robert Downey Jr.

:

01:13:03,187 --> 01:13:07,387

was in an interview saying, you know,

the heat he thought he was going to

:

01:13:07,387 --> 01:13:09,487

take for going blackface in that movie.

:

01:13:10,262 --> 01:13:11,952

He said, nobody even cared.

:

01:13:12,192 --> 01:13:16,412

They were so pissed off about

Simple Jack, right, that,

:

01:13:18,032 --> 01:13:20,212

that that oh fuck Ben Stiller.

:

01:13:20,402 --> 01:13:25,262

Ben Stiller's movie Simple Jack where

he plays a, a, you know, a mentally

:

01:13:25,272 --> 01:13:29,422

handicapped individual and he overdoes

it and then there's this scene where

:

01:13:29,422 --> 01:13:31,432

he tells him, you never go full retard.

:

01:13:31,672 --> 01:13:34,952

And then so, they gave more

heat about Simple Jack than

:

01:13:34,952 --> 01:13:36,352

they did about Robert Downey Jr.

:

01:13:36,382 --> 01:13:36,802

going blackface.

:

01:13:37,657 --> 01:13:40,967

Chris: Did you mean

about saying the R word?

:

01:13:41,027 --> 01:13:42,067

Is that what they gave him crap about?

:

01:13:42,067 --> 01:13:46,927

Jerome: Well, that and just

Ben Stiller exaggerating that

:

01:13:46,927 --> 01:13:49,157

performance of Simple Jack.

:

01:13:49,507 --> 01:13:52,177

Chris: Did you love that, what was

it, Instagram reel or something I

:

01:13:52,187 --> 01:13:56,562

sent when it was the, it was all

the Superheroes from The Avengers.

:

01:13:56,562 --> 01:13:57,302

Oh, it's the Avengers scene, yeah.

:

01:13:57,302 --> 01:14:00,572

The Avengers scene where they're watching

Tropic Thunder on the big screen.

:

01:14:01,772 --> 01:14:01,812

So, Jr.

:

01:14:03,382 --> 01:14:06,432

Jerome: For anyone that doesn't know,

there's a scene in The Avengers.

:

01:14:06,782 --> 01:14:07,872

Is it, is it Endgame?

:

01:14:08,132 --> 01:14:09,862

I don't remember which one it was.

:

01:14:10,422 --> 01:14:13,922

Oh, no, it's the one, yeah, it might

be Endgame, it was, it was, it was

:

01:14:13,922 --> 01:14:17,552

where all the Avengers are sitting

around the table and, and William

:

01:14:17,552 --> 01:14:21,802

Hurt's character is showing them live

footage of all the destruction they do.

:

01:14:21,832 --> 01:14:22,592

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

:

01:14:22,592 --> 01:14:24,842

And, and they're all like feeling

bad, like, and they're all

:

01:14:24,842 --> 01:14:25,792

looking at each other like, wow.

:

01:14:26,022 --> 01:14:27,452

They got wide eyed going, oh, shit.

:

01:14:27,462 --> 01:14:29,602

Yeah, like wide eyed like,

man, everyone hates us.

:

01:14:29,667 --> 01:14:33,787

And then the clip that my brother

sent me was that scene but on

:

01:14:33,787 --> 01:14:38,157

the picture was Tropic Thunder

and it was Robert Downey Jr.

:

01:14:38,157 --> 01:14:42,357

in blackface and he's going,

Oh, I was down San Antone.

:

01:14:43,717 --> 01:14:46,787

I could, I could make you some Creole,

you know, and he's doing this whole thing

:

01:14:46,867 --> 01:14:48,247

and they're all looking at each other.

:

01:14:48,457 --> 01:14:52,077

And then there's a shot of Captain

America looking at Robert Downey Jr.

:

01:14:52,877 --> 01:14:54,877

Chris: Giving him like the

shit eye, like what the.

:

01:14:55,352 --> 01:14:56,892

What the, what's wrong with you?

:

01:14:57,352 --> 01:15:00,082

And I think the thing at the top

said when the Avengers had to

:

01:15:00,082 --> 01:15:01,532

start doing background checks.

:

01:15:01,562 --> 01:15:02,942

Jerome: Yeah, you, and you know what?

:

01:15:02,952 --> 01:15:06,592

You should include that in the notes,

in the, in the, in the podcast notes.

:

01:15:06,872 --> 01:15:08,942

And people can still

look that up on YouTube.

:

01:15:09,472 --> 01:15:11,492

Because that, that is so great.

:

01:15:11,582 --> 01:15:12,522

It's so funny.

:

01:15:12,982 --> 01:15:13,942

It's just perfect.

:

01:15:14,002 --> 01:15:14,772

Chris: Yeah, it was good.

:

01:15:15,552 --> 01:15:17,932

Well, well done on your,

on your six degrees.

:

01:15:18,112 --> 01:15:20,032

I didn't uh, I didn't see that coming.

:

01:15:20,032 --> 01:15:21,012

But then again, I didn't do it.

:

01:15:22,162 --> 01:15:24,862

Jerome: If you really want to IMDb

somebody, look at Daniel Bruhl.

:

01:15:24,902 --> 01:15:26,582

That dude's been in a lot of shit.

:

01:15:26,792 --> 01:15:29,432

And the fact that he was in All Quiet

on the Western Front is what saved me.

:

01:15:29,602 --> 01:15:32,242

Because there were several

actors, this was their only movie.

:

01:15:32,572 --> 01:15:32,942

Yeah.

:

01:15:33,022 --> 01:15:35,702

And I'm like, well, not that

it was their only movie.

:

01:15:36,132 --> 01:15:37,952

Everything else they did was in Germany!

:

01:15:38,182 --> 01:15:38,882

Chris: Yeah, exactly.

:

01:15:38,882 --> 01:15:41,197

Jerome: Like, no US films,

and I'm like, I'm fine.

:

01:15:41,197 --> 01:15:41,587

Fucked.

:

01:15:41,917 --> 01:15:42,977

I can't find anybody.

:

01:15:43,117 --> 01:15:45,837

And then I saw Daniel Bruhl's name

and I'm like, Oh shit, that's right.

:

01:15:45,837 --> 01:15:47,097

He played the politician.

:

01:15:47,107 --> 01:15:47,647

Yeah.

:

01:15:47,667 --> 01:15:49,947

And I knew him from all

the Avengers movies.

:

01:15:49,947 --> 01:15:51,467

And like, he's been in a lot of shit.

:

01:15:51,867 --> 01:15:53,617

Chris: I thought I had you this time, man.

:

01:15:53,617 --> 01:15:55,187

I'm glad I'm glad it worked out.

:

01:15:55,187 --> 01:15:57,187

But, eh, it just proves your point.

:

01:15:57,197 --> 01:16:00,062

You, you believe you can

connect any two actors.

:

01:16:00,592 --> 01:16:07,562

Jerome: Okay, so, before we sound off,

will you acknowledge and admit you need

:

01:16:07,572 --> 01:16:12,752

to watch The Thin Red Line again after,

now that we've talked about it, look

:

01:16:12,752 --> 01:16:16,912

at it from a different point of view,

and don't be such a stick in the mud.

:

01:16:18,232 --> 01:16:20,032

Chris: I'll definitely watch it again.

:

01:16:20,392 --> 01:16:23,642

I'll definitely watch again and like

I said, like I said, there were some

:

01:16:23,642 --> 01:16:28,222

individual scenes that I just loved

and I think it's, it's worth it just

:

01:16:28,232 --> 01:16:29,872

to get through those scenes again, so.

:

01:16:30,042 --> 01:16:32,412

Jerome: Watch the Nick Nolte

Cusack scene again where he

:

01:16:32,412 --> 01:16:34,092

says, my son's a bait salesman.

:

01:16:34,092 --> 01:16:34,822

It's so great.

:

01:16:35,052 --> 01:16:38,432

It's just him nailing that point

and then they stare at each

:

01:16:38,432 --> 01:16:40,052

other for a minute with no words.

:

01:16:40,082 --> 01:16:40,652

Chris: Awkward pause.

:

01:16:42,432 --> 01:16:45,332

Jerome: My son's a bait salesman

and that's pretty much what I've

:

01:16:45,332 --> 01:16:46,732

been doing for the last ten minutes.

:

01:16:47,232 --> 01:16:48,462

Right, wow.

:

01:16:49,447 --> 01:16:50,217

So it's great.

:

01:16:50,497 --> 01:16:50,867

Anyway.

:

01:16:50,877 --> 01:16:51,007

Well,

:

01:16:51,007 --> 01:16:51,937

that's good stuff.

:

01:16:52,647 --> 01:16:54,867

Chris: Well, that's where we

landed the plane on this one.

:

01:16:54,927 --> 01:16:56,437

Thank you so much for joining us.

:

01:16:56,787 --> 01:17:00,407

We have a new website, which

is silverscreenhappyhour.

:

01:17:00,857 --> 01:17:05,467

com and you can email us at

cheers at silverscreenhappyhour.

:

01:17:05,467 --> 01:17:07,797

com You can also find

that in the show notes.

:

01:17:07,947 --> 01:17:12,757

You may have noticed the last episode to

post before this one It was our listener

:

01:17:12,757 --> 01:17:16,577

feedback and response episode, and we're

going to do that from time to time.

:

01:17:16,587 --> 01:17:22,577

If you'd like to send us an email or a

voice memo on Instagram, we might respond

:

01:17:22,677 --> 01:17:24,897

as a little bonus episode like that one.

:

01:17:25,727 --> 01:17:29,177

Well, as I sign off, I just want

to encourage you to go support your

:

01:17:29,177 --> 01:17:31,687

local cinema and watch some movies.

:

01:17:32,317 --> 01:17:36,147

So until next time, for my

brother, Jerome, I'm Chris Wiegand.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for Silver Screen Happy Hour
Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

Listen for free

About your hosts

Profile picture for Jerome Wiegand

Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
Profile picture for Chris Wiegand

Chris Wiegand