Episode 13

Unforgiven (1992) WICK UNFORGIVEN - Part One

Analyzing 'Unforgiven' (1992)

A must-listen for movie buffs and aspiring screenwriters! Chris and Jerome dig into the thematic elements of Clint Eastwood’s 'Unforgiven' in this first of a two-part series that explores a "once a killer theme". Jerome provides an insightful breakdown using Blake Snyder's storytelling structure, while Chris shares entertaining anecdotes and whiskey pairings. The episode features lively discussions, trivia, character analyses, and a humorous take on Chris' wife's aversion to violent films. Closing it out, they tease an upcoming 'Six Degrees of Separation' challenge and encourage listeners to support local cinemas.

00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Excitement

01:06 Movie Selections: Unforgiven and John Wick

02:30 Drinks and Personal Stories

05:37 Unforgiven: Movie Details and Initial Thoughts

14:47 Unforgiven: Themes and Character Analysis

35:03 Myth vs. Reality: The Final Example

35:11 Foreshadowing the Ending

36:14 Will's Transformation Begins

37:56 Midpoint: A False Defeat

40:15 The Final Myth vs. Reality Moment

42:43 The Kid's Breakdown

44:27 Will's Return to Violence

47:03 The Climactic Showdown

52:59 Character Analysis and Final Thoughts

Buy or Rent Unforgiven

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Transcript
Chris:

You are listening to the Silver Screen Happy Hour.

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I'm Chris Wiegand, along

with my brother Jerome.

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We do have some, some drinks to pair

with these movies and I'm gonna have

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to intermix it with some water cause

it's just whiskey today, folks.

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Jerome: Oh, hell yeah.

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Chris: Well, Jerome, you might

have some lightsaber backup.

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You usually do.

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Jerome: I always do.

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I know I do.

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Yeah, no, I'm excited about today.

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I haven't been I'm excited for every

episode, to be honest with you.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Jerome: Even if I'm gonna set it up with

Even when we decide on movies that I'm not

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100 percent in love with, like, we'll have

movies that are topical, and I'm like, oh,

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those are good movies, we could do that.

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By the time I'm done with

the notes, I'm fired up.

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Because I learn more,

right, about the movies.

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And even if it's movies that I've seen,

like, Silence of the Lambs, I've loved

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for years, and I've seen a million times,

but when I really broke it down by notes,

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I was like, God, I love it even more now.

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So, but this one?

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This one I was particularly excited for

and after the notes I'm, I'm, I'm I'm

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lit up like a fucking Christmas tree.

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Chris: Alright, so what are the

movies we're talking about today?

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Jerome: We are doing the 1992

Unforgiven starring Clint Eastwood

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and the I believe it's 2014?

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Yep.

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Is that what it is?

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2014, John Wick, the first

one, starring Keanu Reeves.

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The reason we picked these

movies is they both kind of serve

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this I was once a killer theme.

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You know, where they're kind of

in retirement for whatever reason.

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And they come out of

retirement for, for something.

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Something pulls them back into the life.

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So I was intrigued by

doing these two movies.

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I know that it's a common theme,

actually, when you think of a lot of

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movies that have ex assassins taken

as another example of a, you know,

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a CIA operative or whatever, who's

now retired and in the normal life.

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And something happens where he has to

get back into it and kick everybody's

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ass that gets in front of him.

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So we love these movies because we,

you know, we, we see themselves as

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these guys like, Oh, you know, with

the things you'll do to, you know,

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to right the wrongs of the world.

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So we were very much excited about

the concept of once a killer.

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Chris: My son, Josh was over and he was

watching John Wick with me this time.

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He's like, We were talking about

it and he's like, man, you know, I

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mean, I know he was an assassin and

stuff, but someone killed my dog that

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my wife, my dead wife just gave me.

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I've become a killer too.

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Jerome: Well, we're going to talk

about, we got a lot to talk about

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with John Wick and we got a lot to

talk about with Unforgiven, but let's

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start off with what are you drinking?

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Chris: Well, I'm just went to I'm calling

it generic whiskey because the brand of

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whiskey has nothing to do with the movie.

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So I'm going with an Irish whiskey.

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Hold on, let me get

the audio of this pour.

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Jerome: Ooh!

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Chris: Oh yeah.

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There we go, a little Jameson simply

because it's a lazy day and I didn't

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I didn't get the bottle that I wanted.

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I think you got the bottle

that I would have wanted.

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Jerome: Okay, so, first I gotta,

I gotta, a comment on yours.

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Alright.

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My brother has a big jug of Jameson.

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Oh, it's a Sam's Club

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Chris: jug.

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Jerome: Right, so let me guess

well, of course, cost of living

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in Michigan's a little bit more

reasonable than California.

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In California, that's a 50 bottle.

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Yeah, it's about the same here.

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Is that, is that about the same?

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Okay, so it's 50 at Costco.

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So here's the story.

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Yeah.

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I recently had my 49th birthday, the

tender age of 49, and my wife was like,

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you know what get whatever you want, You

know, I don't really know what to get you.

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So, I'll give you a hundred dollar

budget to get a bottle of your choosing.

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Nice.

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Happy birthday.

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So, I go to Costco where

the prices are the best.

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And I see that Jameson's jug for

50 bucks and I'm like, you know,

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I could just get two bottles of

Jameson's and meet the budget.

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But then I was like, nah, fuck that,

I'm gonna get something really nice.

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I ended up getting, this isn't

it, or this is a different story.

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I ended up getting myself 85 bottles.

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dollar bottle of Macallan.

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It was very nice scotch.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And and I brought it home to

find that my wife, while I was at

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Costco getting this bottle through

a little surprise party for me.

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So I had all my neighbors over.

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Nice.

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And one of 'em e my buddy Eric,

who lives down the street, him and

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his lady Siri, who are engaged they

actually got me this Blanton's nice

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original single barrel bourbon whiskey.

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And it's the exact bottle from John Wick.

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They had no idea.

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It just happens to be,

this is just serendipitous.

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Yeah, that's great.

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It's the bottle that's, it's the bottle

that, for those of you seen the movie,

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Keanu Reeves calls up, you know, he's, he

needs to be stitched up by the doctor and

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they give him bourbon as a pain reliever.

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And this is the bottle they send up.

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So it's a very nice Blanton's

whiskey from the movie.

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And I am going to open up mine now.

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So I normally don't use rocks.

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You know me, I have a thing

against ice, but John wick had

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ice in his glass when he drank it.

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Yep.

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So you, if Keanu can't go wrong.

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Then I can't go wrong.

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Here we go.

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You ready?

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Chris: Nice.

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Jerome: I want to go more than

that, but I probably shouldn't.

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Chris: Have you tried this stuff yet?

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Jerome: I have never had it before.

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Chris: Okay.

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Jerome: So introductory sip.

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Here we go.

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Oh boy, that'll put hair on your balls.

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Chris: It's gonna be a good show, people.

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Jerome: Very nice, it's gonna

be a really good show, people.

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Alright, what do you want to start with?

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I kind of wanted to go with

Unforgiven, like chronological.

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Chris: Yeah, let's go chronological.

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Jerome: All right, so I'll

give you the specs here.

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Unforgiven 1992 directed by Clint

Eastwood, written by David Webb.

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People's running time is two hours,

10 minutes, and a budget of 14.

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4 million.

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It was released on my 17th

th,:

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It made over 101 million domestic,

which is good for 11th place that year.

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Just behind the number 10 film.

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A league of their own at 107 million.

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Guess what the number

one movie as of 92 was

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Chris: 92.

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Oh man.

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I don't know.

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What was

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Jerome: it?

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And it's funny that today like the

number one movies are always movies

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that top a billion dollars That's

the top grossing movie of:

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was at 217 million domestically.

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Wow it was aladdin Aladdin.

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No

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Chris: kidding.

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Okay.

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Jerome: Yeah.

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All right.

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Unforgiven was nominated for nine Academy

Awards and won four of them, including

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Best Picture, Clint for Best Director.

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His first Oscar.

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He now has four, by the

way, but that was his first.

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It also won for Joel Cox's film editing

and Best Supporting Actor, Gene Hackman.

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His second Oscar.

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His first was for Best Actor for

the French Connection back in 71.

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Side note.

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Side note, Clint was also

nominated for Best Actor for this

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movie, but he lost to Al Pacino.

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In Son of a Woman, which was Al's

first and only Oscar, which many

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felt was a makeup award for all the

years he got dicked over in the 70s.

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Okay.

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It stars Clint Eastwood as William Money,

Gene Hackman as little Bill Daggett Morgan

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Freeman as Ned Logan, Richard Harris as

English Bob as well as co stars Francis

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Fisher, who was dating Clint at the time.

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Another little funny story there.

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I think I have it in the trivia.

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So we'll get to it later.

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She plays strawberry Alice James

Wolvette as the Schofield kid.

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That's literally his character's name.

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They don't ever say

what his name is, right?

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It's just the Schofield kid Saul

Ruben Eck is WWE Bo champ and Anna

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Thompson as Delilah Fitzgerald Yeah,

the physically assaulted prostitute

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Chris: who is also in a movie.

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We just did

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Jerome: wait, wait, wait,

wait, wait, wait, wait.

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And your God, you fucking

jumped the gun here.

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I was literally about to say a few

connections to the previous podcast.

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We just did Saul Ruben Eck, who

plays WW boat champ and Anna

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Thompson, who plays Delilah.

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We're both in true romance.

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Yeah.

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Which is the film we covered before this.

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And of course, Gene Hackman

was in Bonnie and Clyde.

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So actually, three of them.

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Which we also covered

on a previous episode.

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Yep.

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Another almost kind of bizarre weird

connection, if you could call it that.

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The character of the Schofield kid in

Unforgiven is played by James Wolvet.

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But when I first saw the movie,

I remember thinking that it was

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Christian Slater at first sight.

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Oh, cause of the eyes?

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Yeah.

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Because he looks a lot like him.

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Until I realized it wasn't him.

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But, Kristen Slater was

also in True Romance.

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So, if it was Kristen

Slater, we'd have a trifecta.

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Right.

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Okay, when did you first see this movie?

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Chris: Oh man, I probably

saw it at the theater.

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I was thinking about this

and I could not remember.

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I remember it was really hyped up in 92.

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And, You know, I mean, I don't know.

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I know I saw it in 92.

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I think I saw it at the theater.

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And I've seen it a bunch of times.

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We had it on DVD, I think.

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Man, I couldn't find the DVD when I

was preparing for this, and thankfully

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it was on sale with It was like half

off on Amazon Prime, so I just bought

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it for like seven bucks or something.

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So, yeah, I've seen it several times.

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I know I saw it in 92.

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Something funny about the name,

I guess this is trivia, but

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I'm gonna throw it in here now.

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So this came out what

month did it come out?

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Do you remember?

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Jerome: August 7th.

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It came out on

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Chris: your birthday.

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So, August 7th, 92.

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A few months earlier, in 91 a song that

was playing on the radio in 92 came

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out called The Unforgiven by Metallica.

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And it was just coincidental

timing, I think.

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And it just so happened that you

had this number one song on the

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radio and a number one movie at

the box office at the same time.

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So, it's kinda cool.

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Yeah.

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Jerome: I was actually going to

mention that as well because uh,

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Metallica's black album came out.

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One year before, I want to

say it was August of 91.

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So almost exactly a year before,

but by the time the Unforgiven

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single was hitting the radio, the

hype for this movie was coming out.

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And I remember thinking they made

a movie out of this song already.

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And then I realized,

Oh no, it's a Western.

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It has nothing to do with

the mood with the song.

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But I still thought.

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Like, before I'd even seen the

movie or anything and knew really

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what it was about, I didn't

really know what it was about.

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I was like, I bet you

that song's in the movie.

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I bet you it's in the

closing credits or something.

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So, I couldn't have been more wrong

and I'm glad that I was way off.

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Because that wouldn't have fit at all.

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Right, right.

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But yeah, kind of funny that

like you said, the number one

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movie and the number one song.

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I saw it, again, also in the theater.

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And, ah, man, I just I was

floored then, but I wasn't as

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big into Westerns at the time.

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That might've been actually, dad made

me watch a fistful of dollars when

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I was like 10 years old and and I

was like, yeah, that's kind of cool.

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But you know, I was

into star Wars and shit.

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So I'm like, eh, it's

not really my cup of tea.

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I didn't get into

Westerns till I get older.

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And I want to say this might've

been the movie that did it

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because after this movie.

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I went back and watched fuckin Outlaw

Josie Wales and High Plains Drifter.

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I really got into Clint's older movies.

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Well,

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Chris: and I remember Dad

liked those spaghetti westerns.

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Yeah.

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Jerome: And,

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Chris: you know, like, When one

was on cable, if he was channel

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serving, he was going to stop.

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Yeah.

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And so I saw parts of a bunch of them.

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Yeah.

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But just because dad stopped, you

know, on a, on a Sunday scroll.

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Jerome: It's like what you and I would

do now if we're flipping through and

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like Roadhouse is on, you know, like,

like I know that Vivi's going to grow

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up someday and tell people like, yeah.

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If you know, Top Gun happened to be

on TBS, that's what we were watching.

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You know what I mean?

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Like, whatever.

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Of course everything's streaming now.

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I think

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Chris: this was probably the first,

like, modern day like produced Western

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that I saw because, you know, I mean,

Westerns weren't a big, I don't think

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they were a very big genre in Hollywood.

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Right.

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That's why they're there.

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They could film them cheap in, in Italy.

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That's why they call them a

spaghetti Westerns, right?

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Yeah.

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This one actually

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Jerome: was shot in Canada, but

yeah, all the older North America.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Jerome: Yeah, all of Clint's

older ones, yeah, were shot in

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Italy because it was cheaper.

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Yeah.

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And so yeah, I mean, he made a

lot of them, and I went back and

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watched, like, all of them, man.

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I wanted to really, this

movie got me so into it that I

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started to watch all of them.

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You know what?

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I actually take that back.

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Young Guns was probably the

first Western I actually watched.

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When did that come out?

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Um, That was like late 80s, I want

to say 88, 87, something like that.

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Chris: Oh.

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Jerome: You'll have to look that up.

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Do you have it in front of you?

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Chris: I will in a moment.

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Jerome: Okay, well while you're looking

that up yeah, so, but Unforgiven

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really got me into Clint's Westerns.

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Oh, you're right,

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Chris: 88.

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Jerome: 88, so, but, but, like I said,

so when I got into Clint, man, I went

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back and watched all those old ones, and

I really fell in love with I think the

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good and the bad, the ugly might be one

of the, the greatest westerns of all time.

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Unforgiving is up there though, man.

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Yeah.

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Unforgiving is up there.

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Yeah.

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Another one

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Chris: that came to mind was

Tombstone, which actually came

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out the following year 93.

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Jerome: Yeah.

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And you know what?

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I wouldn't be surprised if the pushes

by the, if the push by the studios

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to get something like that out was

because of unforgiving and its success.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Right.

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You know?

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Because I mean, look what

happened after gladiator came out.

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I mean, all of a sudden you had sword

and sandal shit all over the place and

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they were making HBO series, you know,

about it and all of a sudden everybody

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was in the Spartacus again, you know,

so I wouldn't doubt that tombstone,

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you know, although it was probably in

production anyway, they rushed that shit.

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Once best picture was announced,

they're like, we got to get

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tombstone in theaters like ASAP.

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Chris: And wasn't there, there were like

two studios did Westerns in 93 tombstone

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and what else, what was the other one?

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Jerome: Well, there was Wyatt Earp.

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I thought that was a year later though.

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I thought, I thought that was in 94.

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I look, I think

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Chris: I thought they were, I thought

they came out around the same time.

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Jerome: I think, yeah.

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Kevin Coster did his

version of White Earp.

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I thought they were a year apart,

but I, I could be wrong on that.

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I thought Wyatt Earp came out in 94.

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Oh, you're right.

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Chris: It was, for some reason, I

thought they were the same time.

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Jerome: But, but I mean, think about that.

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Like, now talk about getting

that rushed, you know.

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I mean, after Unforgiven, everybody

was like, all of a sudden we have

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to have all these Westerns now.

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Chris: Yeah, yep.

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Jerome: So alright.

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Log me.

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Chris: Retired Old West gunslinger William

Money reluctantly takes on one last job

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With the help of his old partner Ned

Logan and a young man, the Schofield Kid.

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Jerome: Alright, so I like it.

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Yeah, it's nice

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Chris: and tidy.

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Jerome: So a little side note on

this former killer stuff that we're

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going to talk about today along with

John wick while both characters try

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to tell themselves and the audience.

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Throughout the whole film pretty much that

they're not back quote unquote, you know,

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right, right, right Well into their into

their old world world of killing They both

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and they both seemingly got out because

of a woman I don't know if you notice

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that they're both like both in both films.

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Oh a good woman came along Yeah,

and straighten these guys out And

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gave him good lives and of course,

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Chris: what Clint Eastwood say,

show me the error of my ways.

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Yeah, yeah, he uses,

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Jerome: he uses wickedness a lot.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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My days, my days of wickedness.

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And and of course both wives pass on.

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So they're now left with

themselves pretty much.

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And I thought it was interesting

that we're going to get to John Wick,

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but really only William Money kind

of goes back to his normal life.

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Without ruining the ending of

John Wick, you do know it has

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three sequels, so you can guess.

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Chris: Before the end of John

Wick, the one we're talking about

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he announces that, yes, I'm back.

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Jerome: Yeah, so I mean, yeah, so

even if you hadn't seen the movie

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and you didn't want me to ruin

it, there's four John Wick movies.

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So, you know, they don't all

take place in the same day.

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But alright.

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Okay, we have the beats.

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Opening image, the sun is setting in

the distance, a silhouette of William

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Money burying his wife with an on

screen crawl setting up who Will is

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and that his wife has recently died.

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Inciting incident, the four point push

starts pretty quickly in this movie,

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two minutes in as a matter of fact,

on a rainy night in a small town, a

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fictitious small town of Big Whiskey,

Wyoming, a couple of cowboys rough

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up and cut up a prostitute after she

laughed at the size of his penis.

392

:

This not only introduces the prostitute

girls, or I should just say prostitutes

393

:

Strawberry Alice, Delilah, Kate,

Faith, Silky, and Little Sue, but

394

:

also saloon owner Skinny, the cowboys

Quick Mike and Davey, and ultimately

395

:

the town sheriff Little Bill Daggett.

396

:

So there's a lot of setup in

this first inciting incident.

397

:

And it's just a few minutes

in not just the actions, but

398

:

the characters themselves.

399

:

And so we're going to do a little, we're

going to do a little exercise here.

400

:

One for you beginning writers.

401

:

This is a good exercise for you.

402

:

I call it late to the movies.

403

:

Okay.

404

:

For you beginning writers, if someone

is going to go see your movie and

405

:

they're running late and they had

to stop for popcorn and a Coke and

406

:

they didn't get into their seat

until 10 minutes into the movie, ask

407

:

yourself, did they miss any setup?

408

:

Okay.

409

:

If the answer is no, they didn't miss

anything, then, for a beginning writer,

410

:

you're going to want to go back to that

early first ten pages of your first

411

:

act and tighten the shit out of it.

412

:

Put some setup in there.

413

:

Don't make it so boring.

414

:

If the answer is yes, they would miss

a lot, then you're on the right track.

415

:

And if

416

:

Chris: not, then you might

have lost a few people.

417

:

They might've walked out.

418

:

Jerome: Yeah, this is, and

this is one of those movies.

419

:

If you walk in 10 minutes late

to unforgiven, man, you fucking

420

:

missed a lot because they cram

a lot into the first 10 minutes.

421

:

Okay.

422

:

So, and then the next morning

is a little bit of setup here.

423

:

The girls get together and they

come up with a thousand dollar

424

:

bounty for revenge on the cowboys.

425

:

Because little Bill, the sheriff, comes

and doesn't really punish them at all.

426

:

He fines them a couple of horses each.

427

:

Okay.

428

:

Theme stated.

429

:

Real intro to William Money Now.

430

:

A father and hog farmer.

431

:

Also intro to Pete Sotho's

nephew, the Schofield kid.

432

:

Eight minutes in, the kid says to Will,

You don't look like no rootin tootin son

433

:

of a bitch and cold blooded assassin.

434

:

And this is going to be the running

theme throughout the entire film.

435

:

Not just with Will adjusting to his

post assassin life, but with all the

436

:

characters and the thematic element, and

we're going to talk about this a lot,

437

:

Myth versus reality, that's the theme.

438

:

The stories told versus

what really happened.

439

:

There are 13 different instances of this,

and I'm gonna number them off as we go.

440

:

That's the first one.

441

:

For Will, it is his personal theme.

442

:

Will he be the old killer he used to be?

443

:

That's the, that's the, the

emotional tug of war he's going

444

:

to struggle with the whole movie.

445

:

And, and, there is a terrifyingly

sad reality to his spiritual goal

446

:

that we're going to get to, we're

going to come across at the end.

447

:

Catalyst, another myth versus

reality happens in the next scene,

448

:

the very next scene, when they're

having coffee inside Will's place.

449

:

And the kid tells the story

of what happened to Delilah

450

:

at the hands of the cowboys.

451

:

But his version is embellished

over what really happened, right?

452

:

He cut off her teats, they cut

her face off, like, I mean,

453

:

the story just keeps Yeah,

454

:

Chris: every time the story gets

told it gets worse and worse.

455

:

Jerome: It gets worse and worse.

456

:

Chris: Cut her eyes out.

457

:

Jerome: Yeah, yeah.

458

:

Then he repeats that Will doesn't seem to

physically match the stories he's heard.

459

:

And he says, quote, Uncle Pete says

you was the meanest goddamn son

460

:

of a bitch alive on account that

you're as cold as the snow and you

461

:

don't have no weak nerve nor fear.

462

:

So again, this is all early in

the film, and it's setting up

463

:

in the first 10 minutes that

something bad happened to a girl.

464

:

And what seems to be an old broken down

hog farmer used to be the biggest badass.

465

:

That walked North America Another element

to this myth versus reality in most cases

466

:

the reality is nothing like the story

that's being told However in William

467

:

money's case, we're gonna find throughout

the film that his reality was actually

468

:

worse than the stories The stories

they tell about will money Are almost

469

:

tame compared to what really happened.

470

:

Yeah.

471

:

And we're gonna get to that too.

472

:

So in any case, that's

the catalyst moment.

473

:

At the 11 minute mark is the kid

asking Will to join him on his job.

474

:

Yeah.

475

:

To take the two cowboys

that cut up Delilah.

476

:

Debate begins at the 13 minute mark.

477

:

We see the debate.

478

:

Will is, you know, His continued

failures as a hog farmer.

479

:

I think they show him falling down twice

trying to, you know, separate these hogs.

480

:

At one point he stands at the fence

and he watches the school field

481

:

kid right off in the distance.

482

:

This is what Blake Snyder would

call the stasis equals death.

483

:

You know, if he stays in this place,

he's going to die just like that.

484

:

An old broken down hog farmer.

485

:

he doesn't seem very prosperous.

486

:

The kid even says that.

487

:

You don't seem very prosperous.

488

:

He's not.

489

:

He needs this money.

490

:

You know, he could really use the money.

491

:

Chris: by comparison John Wick

just comes out of retirement.

492

:

He's ready to go, right?

493

:

By comparison, there's been some

time that has passed since since Bill

494

:

Money had been an active, you know,

assassin or whatever he, whatever,

495

:

hit, hit man, whatever he had done.

496

:

He can't even ride a horse.

497

:

Jerome: Yeah, I, I like that you

brought that up because it is important.

498

:

They do allude that about

a decade has gone by and

499

:

Chris: he's kind of in his later years.

500

:

Jerome: John Wick, like maybe

three or four years have gone by.

501

:

That's it.

502

:

Like three, maybe, you know what I mean?

503

:

Shit.

504

:

That's nothing really.

505

:

Right.

506

:

You know?

507

:

But anyway, yeah.

508

:

And, and, and that's the other thing.

509

:

I didn't write it down in the notes, but

I did like when I was writing my pen notes

510

:

and I was writing it in pen, I wrote age.

511

:

Real small and circled it

every time they showed a moment

512

:

where he was showing his age.

513

:

He falls twice with the hogs.

514

:

He falls off the horse

at least five times.

515

:

In fact, every time he tries to get

on the horse in this movie, he falls.

516

:

Like, I mean, he just, I

mean, they just constantly are

517

:

showing that he's an old man.

518

:

Okay.

519

:

So then next scene to

see if he still has it.

520

:

He does some practice shooting to

find that he probably has gotten old.

521

:

Cause he can't even hit a goddamn

coffee can with his revolver.

522

:

Now here's the funny thing.

523

:

There's a rule of three here.

524

:

We've talked about it in previous

podcasts, the rule of three.

525

:

And this one is going to be Senator

on whether or not he is back.

526

:

Okay.

527

:

This is stage one, firing a gun

for the first time in a decade.

528

:

The fact that he even finds his

gun, he was looking for it and

529

:

he finds it and he's going to go

outside and practice shooting.

530

:

That's the first stage of, is he back?

531

:

Okay.

532

:

There's going to be two

more key ones later.

533

:

Chris: Yeah.

534

:

Okay.

535

:

Isn't he right?

536

:

Jerome: Is he or isn't he?

537

:

So break into two.

538

:

The final stage in the four point

push by the way, there is a little

539

:

comedic moment with that, by the way,

he misses every shot with the handgun.

540

:

And instead of, Oh, geez, maybe

I should reload and try again.

541

:

He's so pissed that he goes back

into his house and grabs a shotgun

542

:

and he comes out and annihilates

the coffee can with a shotgun.

543

:

And the little girl, the daughter,

says to the older son, Oh, he's

544

:

got two kids by the way, if I

didn't, if I buried that lead.

545

:

He's got two little kids now,

and the little girl says to the

546

:

brother, Did Paw used to kill folks?

547

:

Or maybe she says shoot.

548

:

I don't know, maybe she says,

Did Paul used to shoot folks?

549

:

I don't know.

550

:

Um, But he's so mad at the goddamn coffee

can that he comes out with his shotgun.

551

:

Alright, break into two.

552

:

The final stage of the four point push is

the decision to jump into the second act.

553

:

Chris: Yeah.

554

:

Jerome: Now it's usually a strong beat.

555

:

Something happens that is actionable.

556

:

It's intense, and we can clearly see,

and we say to ourselves, that's it.

557

:

We're now in act two.

558

:

This one's interesting.

559

:

It doesn't really have one of those.

560

:

In fact, the break into two and the break

into three are more mental decisions

561

:

for money, you know, for William Money.

562

:

He doesn't really like shoot

somebody and be like, now I'm back.

563

:

You know what I mean?

564

:

Like it's, it's like, it's just

something that's going on in his head.

565

:

We assume he's made the decision

the morning that he's shaving.

566

:

Right.

567

:

Like that's when you get the idea that,

yeah, he's decided he's going to do this.

568

:

But there wasn't anything really

actionable that made us know that

569

:

we just sort of knew it, you know?

570

:

So, and that is roughly at the 18 minute

mark is when he makes that decision.

571

:

We know that because like I

said, he's shaving, he's getting

572

:

dressed, and he takes flowers

out to his dead wife's grave.

573

:

Chris: I love this scene

when he leaves his kids.

574

:

Jesse was watching it with

me and she's like, Oh my God.

575

:

Cause how old are these kids?

576

:

Jerome: The kid can't be more

than what, 11, 12 years old.

577

:

Chris: Oh, the oldest kid.

578

:

Yeah.

579

:

And then there's the younger one.

580

:

Jerome: The little girl's

gotta be six or seven.

581

:

Chris: If you get hungry,

kill a chicken or something.

582

:

Jerome: I mean, think about how fucking,

how times were different back then.

583

:

He's just like, you know, I'll

have a Ned's, you know, Indian

584

:

wife Sally Two Trees, I'll have her

look in on you every now and again.

585

:

If you get hungry, kill a chicken.

586

:

And, and keep those damn hogs

separated, you know what I mean?

587

:

Like, what the fuck?

588

:

And, and the son, at no point is the

son like, Dad, you're leaving us?

589

:

He's just like, alright, I got it, I

got the, I got the ranch from here.

590

:

Like, you were a man at

twelve back in those days.

591

:

In this case, 11, 11 years old,

and you're a man of the house.

592

:

And I always thought it was funny to

completely unrelated, but I always liked

593

:

the line in interview with the vampire,

when Brad Pitt is telling his story to

594

:

oddly enough, Christian Slater already

mentioned, we've mentioned him twice on an

595

:

episode that has nothing to do with him.

596

:

Right.

597

:

He tells him he, he was telling

the story of in the:

598

:

first got bit and became a vampire.

599

:

He says, he goes.

600

:

I was 17 or 18 years old, but

I was times were different.

601

:

I was a man at that age.

602

:

I already had my own plantation,

you know what I mean?

603

:

Like So I always liked that line

about how times have changed.

604

:

And then you watch this movie and

you're like, No, you're a man at eleven.

605

:

Not seventeen.

606

:

You're a man at eleven.

607

:

Alright, fun and games.

608

:

Now that we're in act two, we start

with Skinny finding out about the

609

:

bounty, slapping around Alice and

going to little Bill to tell him.

610

:

Myth versus reality number three.

611

:

When skinny approaches Bill's

house, he says, quote, I heard

612

:

you did the roof yourself to that

or rather offended bill replies.

613

:

I practically built the whole damn

thing myself, which is another example

614

:

of the theme story moves around

town, but you know, it's hardly true.

615

:

And this is just another, just again,

a seemingly meaningless throwaway line

616

:

of dialogue actually is serving and

supporting the theme of the movie.

617

:

There's no fat to trim in this script.

618

:

Every word counts.

619

:

And that's why it's one of,

it's an amazing screenplay.

620

:

Um, On his journey, roughly

around the 28 minute mark.

621

:

Usually the B story enters

around 30 minutes in.

622

:

Will stops at the ranch of his old

friend, Ned Logan and his wife, Sally,

623

:

two trees and recruits him to join

him on the job myth versus reality.

624

:

Number four, as Will relays the

story of what happened to Delilah

625

:

to Ned, he's embellishing even more.

626

:

Now.

627

:

What does he say when no, I think he

says is when her eyes got cut out.

628

:

So first first the kid says

he they cut off her teats And

629

:

now he's like cut her teats.

630

:

They cut her eyes out.

631

:

Like I mean, it's getting even worse now

632

:

Chris: I love like with every gruesome

detail the the the expression on

633

:

Clint Eastwood's face Where he

squints and he's like, Oh hell.

634

:

Jerome: Yeah, he got, you can almost

hear him go, Jesus, you know what I mean?

635

:

Like every time.

636

:

So Ned serves as the B story

because he will ultimately drive

637

:

will to his spiritual goal.

638

:

Ned agrees to join him and they set off

you know, after their tangible goal, which

639

:

is to find the cowboys who cut up Delilah.

640

:

Okay, more fun and games.

641

:

Intro to English Bob and his biographer W.

642

:

W.

643

:

Beauchamp.

644

:

By the way, I love every moment

that Richard Harris is on screen.

645

:

Absolutely.

646

:

I fucking love him in this movie.

647

:

And he's only got like four scenes.

648

:

Chris: Yeah.

649

:

Jerome: But he is so fun

in this movie to watch.

650

:

They're on a train to Wyoming.

651

:

Myth versus reality number five.

652

:

The folks on the train have heard

of English Bob and another example

653

:

of how his reputation precedes him

as he challenged them to pheasant

654

:

shooting and he wins easily.

655

:

Here's an interesting part.

656

:

Remember when I said the

stories about William Money?

657

:

The stories don't match reality,

that the reality is actually worse?

658

:

This is another one of those.

659

:

They only know the story of

English Bob because he shoots

660

:

Chinamen off the railroads.

661

:

But when he gets out there to shoot

pheasants, he hits, what, eight?

662

:

Eight out of ten?

663

:

Flying birds?

664

:

With a handgun?

665

:

So again, they are not only corrected

on their, on their thoughts about

666

:

English Bob, they're more impressed.

667

:

because it was a contest and the only

guy what hit one, he hit one bird.

668

:

So, yeah.

669

:

Where did I lost my place here?

670

:

Okay starting to get the idea that when

it's a cold blooded killer like English

671

:

Bob and William Money, the realities are

usually accurate or worse than the myths.

672

:

After they arrive in Big

Whiskey, he has a comical, though

673

:

timely, line in a barbershop.

674

:

Where he's talking about how nobody

would be able to assassinate a

675

:

king or queen because you would

stand in awe in their presence.

676

:

And then he says as he's leaving,

smiling, now a president, well, I

677

:

mean, why not shoot a president?

678

:

Now in and of itself, it's a funny line.

679

:

I realized.

680

:

It's not that funny right now.

681

:

So when I first saw it I was watching

that scene and that line came up I

682

:

remembered the line and laughed and

then I was like Oh, I don't know if we

683

:

can put that in a podcast Cause it's

a little negatively timely but Still,

684

:

it was a funny line, just the way he

delivers it, you know what I mean?

685

:

Yeah, it was funny.

686

:

Why not?

687

:

Why not shoot a president?

688

:

Myth versus reality, number

six, seven, and eight!

689

:

All come in back to back scenes

as the deputies are gearing up to

690

:

take on English Bob and the stories

about how tough little Bill is, or

691

:

was, and whether or not he's afraid.

692

:

of somebody like English Bob come up.

693

:

When they're face to face

with little Bill, Bob tells

694

:

him he's heard that he died.

695

:

Well, first of all, let

me, I'm jumping ahead.

696

:

So, the myth vs.

697

:

reality number six.

698

:

The first part is Clyde comes in, one

armed Clyde, which is another funny

699

:

scene because he wants to reload his

own gun, and the guy that loaded it for

700

:

him is like, Clyde, what are you doing?

701

:

I already loaded that!

702

:

Then he's like, Christ, you got

three guns and only one arm!

703

:

So um, anyway, so in that scene, Clyde

tells all these guys are like, oh, I

704

:

don't know if little bill can handle it.

705

:

He's never gone against

guys like this before.

706

:

Did he seem scared?

707

:

And Clyde's like, guys, he

worked those old towns in Kansas.

708

:

You know what I mean?

709

:

Like he starts telling little

bill's story, you know?

710

:

So And then they go to face little

English Bob by the way, I'm going to trip

711

:

over some of my words because Bill and

Bob and Will are the three main guys.

712

:

Will, Bill and Bob are

the three main guys.

713

:

So forgive me if I fucked

this up a little bit.

714

:

So when they get face to face

with a little Bill, Bob tells him.

715

:

English Bob tells him, I heard that you

died and you can kind of tell him the

716

:

way he delivers the line that he really

meant to say hoped because he does

717

:

seem worried when he sees little bill.

718

:

He was not afraid of these deputies

at all, but when he comes out of that

719

:

barbershop and he sees a little bill, he

says to himself, I don't know if you could

720

:

tell, cause he says it under his breath.

721

:

He goes shit and fried eggs.

722

:

And WWE boat champ just sort of looks at

him like, what, like, what's the big deal?

723

:

Yeah.

724

:

So anyway, to which Bill

replies, I heard that one myself.

725

:

So another example, again, these

are just meaningless throwaway

726

:

lines, but they're supporting that

theme about how stories travel.

727

:

Yeah.

728

:

Right.

729

:

Then biographer WW Bo champ, here's

the name, little Bill Daggett,

730

:

and he's obviously impressed.

731

:

Even he has heard of him

and likely his reputation.

732

:

Again, the script is literally With

these, these stories, these reputations,

733

:

these fables, this is about 39 minutes

in, and we've already talked about

734

:

eight instances where stories traveled

to areas, you know what I mean?

735

:

And people built up their own myths

in their mind based on those stories.

736

:

Another funny setup of dialogue

is when Little Bill hears that W.

737

:

W.

738

:

is a writer.

739

:

The first thing he says

is, letters and such?

740

:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

No, wait, the reason I'm laughing

741

:

is this is gonna pay off at the end.

742

:

Because this is a setup and it

gets paid off at the end, but The

743

:

funny thing about it is, why would

that be the first thing you ask?

744

:

When somebody's a writer,

you say, letters and such?

745

:

That would be like today if I

told somebody I was a writer and

746

:

they're like, Oh, like emails?

747

:

Like, no!

748

:

You know what I mean?

749

:

Alright, so anyway, it doesn't end

well for English Bob in this scene,

750

:

as Bill beats the shit out of him, and

then they arrest him at the end of it.

751

:

Back to Ned and Will.

752

:

They meet up with the Schofield kid

and discover he can't see for shit.

753

:

There's a lot of comedic

moments there as well.

754

:

Rejoin.

755

:

Now we go back to Bill.

756

:

He's now in the jail

house with WW and Bob.

757

:

He's reading the book.

758

:

The biographer wrote called the Duke

of death which is another, yeah, which

759

:

is another funny moment where he keeps

fucking up the name, calling it the

760

:

duck of death myth versus reality.

761

:

Example number nine, since the book is

mostly BS uh, perhaps you know, Kind of

762

:

shit is how these stories got started,

is because of books like this, right?

763

:

Immediately followed by Myth vs.

764

:

Reality number 10, where he tells

the story of Two Gun Corky Corcoran.

765

:

And why he was really named Two Gun Corky.

766

:

And, you know, the stories, it

was because he carried two guns.

767

:

Well, it wasn't.

768

:

He carried one gun, but had a huge dick.

769

:

That's why he was called Two Gun Corker.

770

:

Two Two Gun Corky.

771

:

Again, myth versus reality.

772

:

Back to will Ned and the kid at

the campfire myth versus reality.

773

:

Number 11, where the kid lies his

ass off about how many people he

774

:

killed, just to sound impressive

the next day while riding.

775

:

Okay.

776

:

So the kid does ask him I heard

you killed those two, you killed

777

:

two County deputies or something.

778

:

The next day here's myth versus reality.

779

:

Number 12, they're riding along.

780

:

And Ned says to to will.

781

:

Hey, you know that story

the kid told last night?

782

:

It wasn't two.

783

:

Didn't you kill three deputies

or something like that?

784

:

And he's like, I don't remember.

785

:

I was drunk.

786

:

But again, this is a perfect

example of how even the story

787

:

Chris: changes.

788

:

Yeah.

789

:

Jerome: But not only that, the

reality was worse than the story.

790

:

Chris: Yeah.

791

:

Jerome: The story was that

he killed two officers.

792

:

He killed three.

793

:

You know what I mean?

794

:

All right.

795

:

So again, everybody else's stories are

getting embellished while his stories are

796

:

actually getting diminished from reality.

797

:

Okay, so we've hit 12 examples

of myth versus reality before

798

:

we even hit the damn midpoint.

799

:

Okay?

800

:

There's only gonna be one more.

801

:

Remember I said there's 13.

802

:

There's gonna be one

more, but it comes later.

803

:

Alright, back at the jailhouse now.

804

:

Bill gives W.

805

:

W.

806

:

the chance to shoot him

and take off with Bob.

807

:

It doesn't go the way English Bob hoped.

808

:

But why this is important is he basically

explains the whole ending of the film.

809

:

It's pure foreshadowing.

810

:

It's clever because the fear I'm sure the

filmmakers might have had and the writer

811

:

himself was that the audience isn't going

to buy the ending for the whole movie.

812

:

We've set up this broken down old

man and he's going to walk into a

813

:

room filled with, you know, people

with guns and take everybody out.

814

:

The reason it works is because of this

scene, because a little bill takes the

815

:

time to explain if you're cool headed.

816

:

It doesn't matter how fast you are.

817

:

Everybody else that is rushing and they're

nervous and they're scared are gonna

818

:

take their guns out and fire wildly and

they're gonna miss most of the time.

819

:

If you keep your head and you

calmly fire your weapon, you'll

820

:

hit your target every time.

821

:

He basically gives foreshadowing

to how the movie ends.

822

:

Because everybody else will

be panicking and he won't.

823

:

Okay, second sign Will is coming back.

824

:

Remember the first sign was that

he was doing target practice.

825

:

Second sign of him coming back

to his old self, when sick and

826

:

tired, he curses at the horse.

827

:

Remember, he said earlier that

his wife cured him of cursing

828

:

and drinking and wickedness.

829

:

Well, at this point, when he's,

yeah, he's starting to slip back.

830

:

Again, three points here.

831

:

So, you know.

832

:

What was the part?

833

:

Oh, yeah.

834

:

So it's raining and he's sick and he's

tired and he falls off the horse again.

835

:

And he says, he calls the horse something

like a no good pig fucker or something.

836

:

Like, it's like, So, and I'm, well, I'm

watching it and I had to write it down.

837

:

I was like, oh my God, that's

the first time he's cursed.

838

:

It's the first time he's

cursed yet because he said

839

:

his wife cured him of that.

840

:

So that's the second point.

841

:

He does immediately apologize, though.

842

:

Like, right after he gets on

the horse, he's all, I'm sorry.

843

:

But the words flew out of his mouth,

probably like they did in the old days.

844

:

Alright, so that was part

two of the Rule of Three.

845

:

Alright, Bob is sent out of

town as Will is arriving.

846

:

There's a moment where they're at

the train, you know, where they're

847

:

waiting for the train to pass.

848

:

And you can see English Bob on the train.

849

:

As they're arriving in Big Whiskey.

850

:

W.

851

:

W.

852

:

Beauchamp decides to

stay with Little Bill.

853

:

His stories are better.

854

:

The protagonist makes it to Greeley's

to meet with Strawberry Alice.

855

:

Will is sick, but he refuses to drink.

856

:

And I tell people this all the time.

857

:

Back in the 1800s, they

didn't have NyQuil.

858

:

So you drank whiskey if

you had the fever, right?

859

:

If you had a fever, you drank

whiskey because it warmed your

860

:

esophagus and made you sweat.

861

:

It made you sweat out the fever.

862

:

He refuses to drink because his wife,

dead wife Claudia, cured him of drinking.

863

:

So he refuses.

864

:

That only makes him sicker.

865

:

He's just sitting there, soaking

wet from the rain, getting sick.

866

:

Alright, midpoint scene.

867

:

About an hour and twelve minutes into a

two hour ten minute film, Bill meets Will

868

:

for the first time, and he beats the shit

out of him just like he did English Bob.

869

:

His two friends escape and collect him

outside and they begin his recovery.

870

:

This is a tangible goal.

871

:

They somewhat achieved the tangible goal.

872

:

They at least found the

place and met with Alice.

873

:

I want you to realize

why this is important.

874

:

No, they didn't kill the cowboys, but

with all the stories set up about these

875

:

BS stories going around, it's very

likely they could have gotten there to

876

:

find out there was no cut prostitute.

877

:

There wasn't even a bounty.

878

:

You know what I mean?

879

:

Like, that could have just

been a story they heard.

880

:

They don't have the internet.

881

:

They can't fact check this shit.

882

:

So they just rode for a week and a half,

or however long it took to get there.

883

:

They could have got there and then found

out, oh, it was another embellished story.

884

:

Right.

885

:

But they don't.

886

:

They get there, they find

Greeley's, they find Strawberry

887

:

Alice, they find that it's true.

888

:

This is Delilah and we're gonna

offer money like they realize.

889

:

So in a sense, that is achieving

part of your tangible goal.

890

:

They get there and they know

what they got to do, right?

891

:

We talked about how the midpoint is

usually the false victory, right?

892

:

It's a false victory.

893

:

And then the second half of the

movie, everything goes to shit.

894

:

That all is lost is usually the

opposite of the false victory, right?

895

:

It's a false defeat.

896

:

Sometimes they're swapped.

897

:

Whichever one your midpoint scene

is, the all is lost is the opposite.

898

:

So if your midpoint is a false victory,

then your all is lost is a false defeat.

899

:

They swap in this one.

900

:

And we talked about it before.

901

:

It doesn't happen often, right?

902

:

But we talked about it in the Fablemans.

903

:

We felt that that was a

swap to the midpoint here, I

904

:

believe is not a false victory.

905

:

It's a false defeat.

906

:

And the defeat is that little bill

seemingly thwarts their plans by

907

:

beating the shit out of them, beating

bill within an inch of his life.

908

:

And if that didn't do it, the

fever might kill him, right?

909

:

He might have died from the fever.

910

:

He's in a bad state, right?

911

:

He's close to death.

912

:

He's bleeding.

913

:

He's got to get stitched up.

914

:

But things are about to turn around.

915

:

So I call that a false defeat.

916

:

Bad guys closing in sometime passes

about three days actually, where Ned

917

:

and the kid are scouting the Cowboys.

918

:

They're nursing will back to health.

919

:

They're boning the prostitutes.

920

:

You know, like I said,

it's been three days.

921

:

The final myth versus reality moment.

922

:

Number 13 happens when Will's fever breaks

and he wakes up and he sees Delilah.

923

:

He sees that she only has

a few scars on her face.

924

:

The stories were horrendous.

925

:

But when he sees her, he's like,

you just only have a few scars.

926

:

You know?

927

:

It kind of reminded me, watching it

again, again I've seen this movie

928

:

hundreds of times, but when I watched

it this time, as a little side

929

:

note, it reminded me of there's this

scene, you're Thrones guy, are you?

930

:

Chris: No, never got into it.

931

:

Jerome: Is Jesse, is Jesse at all?

932

:

Chris: No, no.

933

:

Jerome: So there's a scene where

Tyrion, who's played by Peter

934

:

Dinklage, there's this story that

a guy tells him, like, you're the

935

:

biggest disappointment I've ever heard.

936

:

And that sounds offensive.

937

:

But then the guy goes into the story.

938

:

He's like, cause when I was

a kid, I came to see you.

939

:

You were just been born.

940

:

You were a baby.

941

:

And we all heard these stories about how

you had a tail and claws and a red eye.

942

:

And your head was twice the size of your

body and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

943

:

And he goes, and then when we

got there, we looked at you.

944

:

And.

945

:

There was no tail.

946

:

There was no claws.

947

:

No red eye.

948

:

He goes, your head was a tad large

and your arms and legs were tad small.

949

:

But he says, he's talking

to, he's talking to him.

950

:

He's telling this and he said, I told

your sister, that's not a monster.

951

:

That's just a baby.

952

:

You know what I mean?

953

:

So it's like, it reminded me of that when

he wakes up and he sees the Lila and all

954

:

of a sudden he's like, she's just a girl.

955

:

She's just a girl.

956

:

She's got some scars on her face.

957

:

That's it.

958

:

So.

959

:

That is the final myth versus

reality moment number 13.

960

:

When they find the cowboys, the

young Davey is the first to go.

961

:

Unfortunately, Ned, I say, unfortunately,

cause Davey really seems like a nice kid.

962

:

He seems very like, like he really

didn't do any of the cutting.

963

:

And he seems really remorseful the

whole movie about what happened.

964

:

And so unfortunately he's the first to go.

965

:

But Ned falters when it matters the most

and Will has to step in to do the killing.

966

:

Will, Little Bill finds out about this.

967

:

Ned quits and heads south.

968

:

He couldn't take it anymore.

969

:

The Barty boys catch up with

him and take him prisoner.

970

:

Will and the kid don't know about any

of this and they continue scouting

971

:

for the second cowboy, Quick Mike.

972

:

They kill him.

973

:

You realize I'm rushing through

the whole second act here because

974

:

these are just like points.

975

:

These are just points that happen.

976

:

They kill him, specifically the kid

kills him while he's sitting in the

977

:

shitter, and they make their escape.

978

:

And they're waiting at their rendezvous

point as little little Sue approaches

979

:

by horseback with their money.

980

:

So this is an hour and 45 minutes

in, and the kid is breaking down.

981

:

This is the, he admits this is

the first time he's ever killed

982

:

anybody and he can't handle it.

983

:

Right.

984

:

And again, this is happening mere.

985

:

after Ned couldn't

handle killing somebody.

986

:

Right.

987

:

Right?

988

:

Like, these two guys, one at the end

of his career, one at the beginning

989

:

of his career as supposed killers, and

they both buckle under the pressure.

990

:

That's gonna be important

when it comes to Will, right?

991

:

But anyway, there's a

line of dialogue here.

992

:

This is probably one of the

most famous scenes of the movie.

993

:

While they're waiting for little

Sue to approach them on horseback.

994

:

I'm just going to read the dialogue.

995

:

The kid, it don't seem real how he

ain't never going to breathe again.

996

:

Never how he's dead.

997

:

And the other one too, all on account

of pulling a trigger will, it's

998

:

a hell of a thing, killing a man.

999

:

You take away all he's got and all

he's ever going to have the kid.

:

00:43:38,414 --> 00:43:38,694

Yeah.

:

00:43:38,764 --> 00:43:39,974

Well, I guess they had it coming.

:

00:43:40,254 --> 00:43:42,014

Will we all have it coming kid.

:

00:43:43,174 --> 00:43:46,704

That was the clip they showed at the

Oscars when this movie was presented as

:

00:43:46,704 --> 00:43:48,124

one of the nominees for best picture.

:

00:43:48,504 --> 00:43:49,624

Okay, all is lost.

:

00:43:49,624 --> 00:43:51,294

One hour, 50 minutes in.

:

00:43:51,384 --> 00:43:55,594

Little Sue delivers the money and

the bad news about Ned, who was

:

00:43:55,604 --> 00:43:57,004

beaten to death by Little Bill.

:

00:43:57,014 --> 00:44:02,714

Now, again, I, I actually, before,

before we hear about Ned, it's a

:

00:44:02,724 --> 00:44:07,524

false it's a false It's not a false

defeat, as all is lost normally is.

:

00:44:07,524 --> 00:44:09,984

It's opposite of the midpoint,

so it's a false victory.

:

00:44:10,344 --> 00:44:13,874

The reason why it's a false

victory is, they got their money.

:

00:44:13,964 --> 00:44:15,264

They killed the cowboys.

:

00:44:15,364 --> 00:44:16,424

They got their money.

:

00:44:16,524 --> 00:44:19,034

They're getting ready to get

on their horses and head south.

:

00:44:19,544 --> 00:44:20,494

They're gonna go home.

:

00:44:20,584 --> 00:44:21,244

They won.

:

00:44:21,674 --> 00:44:27,394

But it's a false victory because,

they find out, Ned was killed.

:

00:44:27,894 --> 00:44:32,884

When Will finds out that Ned was killed

by Little Bill, Switch is flipped.

:

00:44:33,154 --> 00:44:35,764

Yeah, he's back now, right?

:

00:44:36,174 --> 00:44:39,484

Remember I said the rule

of three, the three points.

:

00:44:39,494 --> 00:44:41,574

The first one was target practice.

:

00:44:41,724 --> 00:44:43,454

The second one was he cursed.

:

00:44:43,754 --> 00:44:44,094

Guess what?

:

00:44:44,094 --> 00:44:48,699

The third one is He grabs the bottle

of whiskey from the Schofield kit

:

00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,419

and starts, At that moment you

know, you're in the theater like, Oh

:

00:44:52,419 --> 00:44:54,889

fuck, shit's about to go down now!

:

00:44:55,219 --> 00:44:56,499

Dude's drinking again!

:

00:44:56,589 --> 00:44:59,209

Like at that moment you're like,

Yeah cause they hyped it up

:

00:44:59,219 --> 00:44:59,899

Chris: perfectly.

:

00:45:00,109 --> 00:45:00,829

Jerome: Right, right!

:

00:45:00,869 --> 00:45:03,559

And you're sitting there thinking,

I wouldn't trade places, I wouldn't

:

00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,259

trade places with Little Bill right

now for all the whiskey in Ireland.

:

00:45:06,499 --> 00:45:09,179

Like, that's fucking,

you know it's on now.

:

00:45:09,179 --> 00:45:10,159

It's fucking on.

:

00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:10,799

I don't know.

:

00:45:11,169 --> 00:45:13,739

And that kind of closes out

the whole myth versus reality.

:

00:45:13,779 --> 00:45:14,899

Oh, oh, wait, no.

:

00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:16,429

That's that he is back.

:

00:45:16,439 --> 00:45:19,109

What closes out the misperth

myth versus reality?

:

00:45:19,409 --> 00:45:22,949

Little Sue starts rambling off all

this other shit that he had done

:

00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:24,739

that the kid didn't even know about.

:

00:45:24,739 --> 00:45:25,609

Chris: While he's drinking.

:

00:45:25,819 --> 00:45:27,679

While he's drinking like

more and we're gonna get

:

00:45:27,849 --> 00:45:29,329

Jerome: there's there's

more on that later.

:

00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:30,269

I'm gonna get to that later.

:

00:45:30,299 --> 00:45:32,289

Chris: It made that whole scene so great.

:

00:45:32,749 --> 00:45:33,609

Jerome: Oh my god.

:

00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:35,289

It's the best scene of the whole movie.

:

00:45:35,789 --> 00:45:37,109

Okay, Dark Knight of the Soul.

:

00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:40,139

As discussed in many other episodes,

the Dark Knight of the Soul, it

:

00:45:40,139 --> 00:45:43,079

could be two seconds, it could be

two minutes, it could be two scenes.

:

00:45:43,339 --> 00:45:47,709

It's the bridge from where the

protagonist learns the bad news and then

:

00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,749

makes the decision to jump into Act 3.

:

00:45:50,169 --> 00:45:51,219

This is another quick one.

:

00:45:51,219 --> 00:45:53,899

We talked about the one in Jaws

only lasted a few seconds too.

:

00:45:54,769 --> 00:45:55,829

This one's a quick one too.

:

00:45:56,339 --> 00:45:59,389

You could argue him reaching for the

bottle of whiskey and starting to

:

00:45:59,389 --> 00:46:01,279

drink is his dark night of the soul.

:

00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:03,769

Like, that could have been

that moment of debate.

:

00:46:04,009 --> 00:46:06,749

Because right then he's

thinking, what am I gonna do?

:

00:46:07,839 --> 00:46:11,529

And you know that like, once he starts

drinking, that decision is made.

:

00:46:11,939 --> 00:46:12,999

He knows what he's gonna do.

:

00:46:13,669 --> 00:46:14,799

Alright, break into three.

:

00:46:14,799 --> 00:46:17,789

As previously mentioned in the break

into two, there doesn't seem to be a

:

00:46:17,889 --> 00:46:23,819

big sort of plot point here you know,

that catapults them into act three, like

:

00:46:23,819 --> 00:46:25,369

you would see a big scene or anything.

:

00:46:25,369 --> 00:46:27,379

It's again, it's a more

of a mental decision.

:

00:46:27,899 --> 00:46:31,119

It's a, it's a mental and emotional

decision that, that that William

:

00:46:31,129 --> 00:46:33,249

money makes to jump into act three.

:

00:46:33,264 --> 00:46:35,944

So Well, the catalyst

:

00:46:36,684 --> 00:46:39,774

Chris: was his buddy being

killed and put on display.

:

00:46:40,344 --> 00:46:43,594

Jerome: Yeah, well, again, I was

gonna say, you could argue if

:

00:46:43,594 --> 00:46:45,014

there is a break in to 3 at all.

:

00:46:45,014 --> 00:46:46,914

But no, but see, he's

already made the decision.

:

00:46:46,964 --> 00:46:48,044

Yeah, he's already made the decision.

:

00:46:48,404 --> 00:46:52,954

Chris: But I guess, maybe, maybe it

was when he finally saw him on display.

:

00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:55,899

Jerome: I think he was already

there to kill everybody.

:

00:46:56,249 --> 00:46:57,779

I think that just pissed

him off even more.

:

00:46:58,779 --> 00:46:59,927

You know what I mean?

:

00:46:59,927 --> 00:47:03,069

So what my brother's alluding to, and

we're gonna get to that right now.

:

00:47:03,449 --> 00:47:04,709

The five point finale.

:

00:47:04,709 --> 00:47:05,359

Here we go.

:

00:47:05,379 --> 00:47:06,409

Gathering the team.

:

00:47:06,419 --> 00:47:08,109

Will gives instructions to the kid.

:

00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:09,339

Take the money, head back.

:

00:47:09,499 --> 00:47:13,739

If I don't come back, give my share

and Ned's share to Sally Two Trees

:

00:47:13,749 --> 00:47:15,139

so that she can give it to my kids.

:

00:47:15,429 --> 00:47:16,529

And you can keep the rest.

:

00:47:16,979 --> 00:47:19,059

But if I do come back, I'll

see you in a couple of weeks.

:

00:47:19,459 --> 00:47:21,119

So that's him loading up the team.

:

00:47:21,129 --> 00:47:25,019

And there's a scene where he throws the

empty bottle of whiskey onto the ground.

:

00:47:25,269 --> 00:47:27,589

You know, now the bottle

of whiskey is gone.

:

00:47:27,889 --> 00:47:28,839

You know what that means?

:

00:47:28,929 --> 00:47:30,369

Shit's about to go down, right?

:

00:47:30,739 --> 00:47:36,449

He's, he rides himself to Greeley's with

zero fucks left to give at this point.

:

00:47:37,019 --> 00:47:38,059

Execution of the plan.

:

00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:39,179

He establishes.

:

00:47:40,244 --> 00:47:41,984

He goes in, he walks right in.

:

00:47:41,984 --> 00:47:45,014

While everybody else in there

is armed, it's a posse that

:

00:47:45,014 --> 00:47:46,604

are going to look for him.

:

00:47:46,784 --> 00:47:46,874

Right.

:

00:47:46,874 --> 00:47:49,304

That's what they're, that's

what they're there for, is to

:

00:47:49,304 --> 00:47:51,194

posse up and to go look for him.

:

00:47:51,194 --> 00:47:54,344

And he walks in there and

says, who owns this shit hole,

:

00:47:57,374 --> 00:48:01,364

which is again one of my favorite

lines where you hear him cock his gun.

:

00:48:01,424 --> 00:48:01,664

Yeah.

:

00:48:01,664 --> 00:48:03,764

And the prostitutes are watching.

:

00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:08,129

And all the gunmen are watching, and

the deputies, they all turn, and they

:

00:48:08,129 --> 00:48:11,579

see him stand with a gun, and the first

line he says is, Who owns this shithole?

:

00:48:11,609 --> 00:48:12,099

I love it.

:

00:48:12,509 --> 00:48:15,169

So he sees Skinny, Skinny

says, I own this establishment.

:

00:48:15,339 --> 00:48:17,919

Actually, first, nobody wants

to answer, and he points the

:

00:48:17,919 --> 00:48:19,739

gun at the one deputy, Fatty.

:

00:48:19,869 --> 00:48:22,249

That's, I'm not being mean,

that's literally his name.

:

00:48:22,649 --> 00:48:24,279

His name is Fatty, if

you look at the credits.

:

00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:27,169

He looks at him and he

goes, You fat man, speak up.

:

00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,199

And that's when Skinny says,

I own this establishment.

:

00:48:31,749 --> 00:48:32,419

And then he shoots him.

:

00:48:33,409 --> 00:48:35,759

It just shoots an unarmed man.

:

00:48:36,049 --> 00:48:38,409

I have thoughts on this too, but we're

going to get to that in a second.

:

00:48:38,409 --> 00:48:40,119

I don't want to rush this

five point plan here.

:

00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:42,029

So he kills Skinny.

:

00:48:42,579 --> 00:48:47,389

And again, he, the next, the plan

next is to kill Little Bill, right?

:

00:48:47,569 --> 00:48:50,659

Which, at this point, the room is,

again, it's filled with armed deputies

:

00:48:50,659 --> 00:48:53,949

and mercenaries, and they're all shell

shocked about what just happened.

:

00:48:54,229 --> 00:48:55,869

And they're all just

standing there, right?

:

00:48:55,899 --> 00:48:56,209

Chris: Right.

:

00:48:56,924 --> 00:49:00,004

Jerome: Will aims his gun at Bill

and still nobody's doing anything.

:

00:49:00,004 --> 00:49:02,144

They're all just standing there

like, Holy fuck, what's this?

:

00:49:02,144 --> 00:49:03,994

I've never seen this in real life before.

:

00:49:04,524 --> 00:49:06,364

High tower surprise, the gun jams.

:

00:49:06,584 --> 00:49:08,524

He was going to take out Bill right then.

:

00:49:08,554 --> 00:49:08,974

Right.

:

00:49:09,304 --> 00:49:10,264

And the gun jams.

:

00:49:10,984 --> 00:49:15,104

Now he's about to be in a real shootout

with Bill and everybody in the room.

:

00:49:15,954 --> 00:49:20,094

By the way, because the gun jammed,

he only has left a handgun, which we

:

00:49:20,094 --> 00:49:25,284

saw earlier in the movie, his poor

shooting with the handgun, right?

:

00:49:25,724 --> 00:49:26,994

Chris: But he was sober then.

:

00:49:27,874 --> 00:49:29,914

Jerome: And he couldn't, he

couldn't hit a coffee can, right?

:

00:49:29,914 --> 00:49:32,384

We're talking about two hours earlier, he

couldn't hit a coffee can, he was sober.

:

00:49:32,854 --> 00:49:33,814

Alright, dig down deep.

:

00:49:33,824 --> 00:49:36,504

Without much of a chance to think about

it, again, there's a lot of movies

:

00:49:36,504 --> 00:49:39,354

that dig down deep is also a thing

that could happen within seconds.

:

00:49:39,774 --> 00:49:43,419

Not having the luxury of time

to think about it, Will throws

:

00:49:43,419 --> 00:49:45,109

his shotgun right at Bill.

:

00:49:45,419 --> 00:49:48,359

That throws off his timing

and his rhythm, right?

:

00:49:48,359 --> 00:49:50,249

Because Bill was going to

reach for his handgun, but now

:

00:49:50,249 --> 00:49:51,389

he's got a gun flying at him.

:

00:49:51,389 --> 00:49:52,909

He's got to kind of get

out of the way of it.

:

00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:56,739

It allows Will to pull out his gun.

:

00:49:56,959 --> 00:50:00,189

And while everybody in the place

is panicking and firing all over

:

00:50:00,189 --> 00:50:05,479

God's green earth, he's calmly

picking people off one at a time.

:

00:50:05,619 --> 00:50:05,939

Right.

:

00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:11,179

So, and that's a funny scene, too, where

they show, like Deputy Fatty and Deputy

:

00:50:11,219 --> 00:50:13,179

Andy are standing next to each other.

:

00:50:13,339 --> 00:50:15,539

They're firing and they're

hitting, like, the bar and the

:

00:50:15,539 --> 00:50:16,809

bottles that are on the bar.

:

00:50:16,869 --> 00:50:19,069

They're like, they're not

even coming close to the will.

:

00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:20,159

Right?

:

00:50:20,359 --> 00:50:21,699

And he's just one at a time.

:

00:50:21,699 --> 00:50:23,929

He gets, he gets little

Bill first in the gut.

:

00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:24,489

Boom.

:

00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,739

And then he takes out, boom, boom, boom.

:

00:50:26,989 --> 00:50:28,509

Boom, he starts taking dudes out.

:

00:50:28,929 --> 00:50:31,849

After the initial killing is done,

execution of the new plan was that,

:

00:50:31,849 --> 00:50:34,869

by the way, but after, the plan's not

done yet because Bill's still alive.

:

00:50:34,929 --> 00:50:38,699

Not that he knows it yet, but he

suggests everyone else flee out the

:

00:50:38,709 --> 00:50:40,029

back if they don't want to get killed.

:

00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:41,549

And they all listen!

:

00:50:42,499 --> 00:50:45,579

A room filled with armed dudes and

they're all like Alright, you got it, sir.

:

00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:47,019

And they all go out the back door.

:

00:50:47,459 --> 00:50:48,639

Get the fuck out of there.

:

00:50:48,989 --> 00:50:51,339

Nobody wants anything to

do with him at this point.

:

00:50:52,274 --> 00:50:53,584

Then Will meets W.

:

00:50:53,584 --> 00:50:53,864

W.

:

00:50:53,864 --> 00:50:57,404

Beauchamp, the biography,

the biographer, by the way.

:

00:50:58,834 --> 00:51:01,004

And that's when he realizes

Bill is still alive.

:

00:51:01,404 --> 00:51:04,664

At this point, he kills him at point

blank range with a Spencer rifle.

:

00:51:04,964 --> 00:51:06,224

There is a funny moment there.

:

00:51:06,374 --> 00:51:09,414

I, when I thought was going to

happen in theater, didn't happen.

:

00:51:09,414 --> 00:51:13,894

And this could have been Clint Eastwood's

little dig on the myth versus reality.

:

00:51:13,894 --> 00:51:16,084

What you think is going to

happen versus what does happen.

:

00:51:16,824 --> 00:51:19,594

He sees biographer is all, I'm not armed.

:

00:51:19,594 --> 00:51:20,154

I'm not armed.

:

00:51:20,164 --> 00:51:21,884

The first thing he says

is pick up that rifle.

:

00:51:23,114 --> 00:51:26,904

And I'm like, Oh man, he's going to

pick up that rifle and he's going

:

00:51:26,904 --> 00:51:32,304

to shoot him just so he can say he

didn't shoot another unarmed guy, but

:

00:51:32,304 --> 00:51:35,384

he doesn't, he doesn't, he picks up

the rifle and he just tells him, you

:

00:51:35,384 --> 00:51:36,894

know, give it to me so I can reload it.

:

00:51:37,094 --> 00:51:37,384

Yeah.

:

00:51:37,464 --> 00:51:39,924

And then, you know, more

of the myth versus reality.

:

00:51:40,274 --> 00:51:41,574

But this is all reality.

:

00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:41,604

Yeah.

:

00:51:42,534 --> 00:51:42,804

W.

:

00:51:42,804 --> 00:51:42,994

W.

:

00:51:42,994 --> 00:51:44,244

Bochamp is impressed.

:

00:51:44,244 --> 00:51:45,524

He's like, you killed five people.

:

00:51:45,524 --> 00:51:46,494

Who'd you kill first?

:

00:51:46,494 --> 00:51:47,034

You know what I mean?

:

00:51:47,364 --> 00:51:47,724

Did you kill it?

:

00:51:47,754 --> 00:51:48,724

Did you kill bill first?

:

00:51:49,264 --> 00:51:51,124

So anyway, and he gets

another good line too.

:

00:51:51,124 --> 00:51:53,234

He goes, all I know is

who's going to be last.

:

00:51:54,984 --> 00:51:57,654

The biographer basically shits

his pants and runs out of there.

:

00:51:58,194 --> 00:52:01,774

All right, so resolution as he's

leaving he he drops the threats to

:

00:52:01,774 --> 00:52:06,244

all the town and the onlookers and the

and the Prostitutes that are watching.

:

00:52:06,554 --> 00:52:11,084

Yeah, he's basically like treat

your women better give Ned a proper

:

00:52:11,094 --> 00:52:14,644

burial You know do this do that or

I'm gonna come back and kill all you

:

00:52:14,664 --> 00:52:19,194

sons of bitches Actually, before that,

he says, Alright, I'm coming out.

:

00:52:19,194 --> 00:52:21,084

Anyone takes a shot at

me, I'm gonna kill him.

:

00:52:21,274 --> 00:52:22,974

And not just that, I'm

gonna kill his wife.

:

00:52:23,264 --> 00:52:24,184

Burn his damn house down.

:

00:52:25,514 --> 00:52:26,844

Chris: Right, I love that line.

:

00:52:30,094 --> 00:52:34,664

Jerome: So anyway, Great final moment for

him as he rides off into the rainy night.

:

00:52:35,064 --> 00:52:38,164

And then of course the closing image is

a perfect bookend from the beginning.

:

00:52:38,174 --> 00:52:40,934

It's another Will

silhouette to the sunset.

:

00:52:41,274 --> 00:52:43,384

This time he's standing

at Claudia's grave.

:

00:52:43,384 --> 00:52:43,709

And that's it.

:

00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:48,499

And the closing crawl details how he

moved to San Francisco and prospered

:

00:52:48,499 --> 00:52:53,129

in dry goods and the picture of

Will Money, I believe, disappears.

:

00:52:53,129 --> 00:52:55,609

Like he fades when that crawl is going on.

:

00:52:56,269 --> 00:52:57,949

Alright, we got a lot to unpack here.

:

00:52:57,949 --> 00:52:58,409

We're not done yet.

:

00:52:58,419 --> 00:52:59,339

That was just the beats.

:

00:52:59,349 --> 00:53:01,149

Now notes on character.

:

00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:02,109

Okay.

:

00:53:02,814 --> 00:53:05,864

So I mentioned this already, several

moments were shown that depict Will's age.

:

00:53:05,864 --> 00:53:07,314

I didn't think I put it in

the notes, but I guess I did.

:

00:53:07,584 --> 00:53:10,994

He falls not once but twice while

trying to wrangle the feverish hogs,

:

00:53:11,214 --> 00:53:14,074

and there's countless times where he

stumbles trying to get on the damn horse.

:

00:53:14,514 --> 00:53:18,194

As mentioned, when Will is still in

the debate stage in the first act,

:

00:53:18,334 --> 00:53:21,654

he does the target practice where he

tries to hit the coffee can, right?

:

00:53:21,914 --> 00:53:26,314

He misses every shot, he gets mad, grabs

the shotgun, we already talked about that.

:

00:53:26,604 --> 00:53:29,714

However, in the climactic scene,

the only other time he uses a

:

00:53:29,714 --> 00:53:30,739

revolver, he uses a revolver.

:

00:53:31,229 --> 00:53:33,329

He's dead on and spot on in every shot.

:

00:53:33,859 --> 00:53:37,169

This I believe signifies is not just

cause he was drunk and he was his old

:

00:53:37,169 --> 00:53:41,819

self again, but it is, it signifies

to me the killer instinct in him.

:

00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:47,479

If he's aiming at a coffee can, his brain

is not invested in hitting the target.

:

00:53:47,569 --> 00:53:48,259

You know what I mean?

:

00:53:48,689 --> 00:53:51,929

But if it's a person, particularly

an assailant who's shooting back at

:

00:53:51,929 --> 00:53:56,369

you, his instinct takes over and his

brain targets the shot perfectly.

:

00:53:56,459 --> 00:53:58,119

He's dead on, on every shot.

:

00:53:58,639 --> 00:53:59,099

What's he say?

:

00:53:59,129 --> 00:54:01,889

Oh, even after the killings, even

after the shooting, when he's at the

:

00:54:01,899 --> 00:54:04,099

bar, he says, I've always been lucky.

:

00:54:04,149 --> 00:54:04,379

No, no.

:

00:54:04,379 --> 00:54:06,039

He says, I was lucky in the order.

:

00:54:06,179 --> 00:54:08,499

I've always been lucky when

it comes to killing folks.

:

00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:09,559

Right?

:

00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:14,129

So that kind of explains how, even when

he was drunk out of his mind, He was the

:

00:54:14,129 --> 00:54:17,589

deadliest guy around because his brain

would kick in on that killer instinct.

:

00:54:18,279 --> 00:54:22,739

Grillie's owner, Skinny, is another

interesting dissect, because at

:

00:54:22,739 --> 00:54:25,689

first he comes off kind of like

a good guy at the very beginning.

:

00:54:25,689 --> 00:54:29,419

He has his own little save the cat

moment when he saves Delilah, right?

:

00:54:29,419 --> 00:54:32,349

The guy's cutting her up and he

puts a gun to his head and says, get

:

00:54:32,349 --> 00:54:35,924

off of her cowboy, you know, like,

So you're thinking, oh Skinny is

:

00:54:35,924 --> 00:54:37,324

really protective of these girls.

:

00:54:37,584 --> 00:54:41,934

But as the movie goes on, we kind of find

out that Skinny is a piece of shit, right?

:

00:54:41,934 --> 00:54:45,874

Like, he calls them whores, he calls

them bitches, he smacks them around,

:

00:54:45,874 --> 00:54:47,534

he treats them like they're property.

:

00:54:48,034 --> 00:54:51,764

And he, he's otherwise

kind of a shitty dude.

:

00:54:52,084 --> 00:54:56,489

And the reason they do this is because

is so that you can forgive Will for

:

00:54:56,569 --> 00:54:58,779

killing him when he was unarmed, right?

:

00:54:59,149 --> 00:55:02,149

Especially they show, they, like I

said, they throw that part in, like

:

00:55:02,149 --> 00:55:05,799

you said, they throw that part at

the end where he put Ned out front.

:

00:55:06,059 --> 00:55:06,389

Chris: Right.

:

00:55:06,479 --> 00:55:10,329

Jerome: So if for no other reason,

we've spent two hours lessening our

:

00:55:10,329 --> 00:55:15,469

like for Skinny, but in those same two

hours, we enhanced our like for Ned.

:

00:55:16,169 --> 00:55:19,489

And when Will says he shoulda

armed himself if he's gonna

:

00:55:19,489 --> 00:55:22,929

decorate his saloon with my friend,

at that point we forgive him.

:

00:55:23,389 --> 00:55:25,019

We're like, okay, yeah,

you can kill Skinny.

:

00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:25,499

That's fine.

:

00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:26,119

Right?

:

00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:27,959

Like, nobody's mad at that, right?

:

00:55:28,419 --> 00:55:32,719

Similarly, going back to Will,

despite his reputation, we only see

:

00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,579

him as someone we would root for.

:

00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:37,379

He's a good dad at the beginning.

:

00:55:37,399 --> 00:55:38,409

Like, this is what we see.

:

00:55:38,849 --> 00:55:39,439

He's a good dad.

:

00:55:39,449 --> 00:55:41,149

He's a, he's a, he's a widower.

:

00:55:41,149 --> 00:55:45,469

I guess I would say he's a good widower

because he wants to stay true to his wife.

:

00:55:45,499 --> 00:55:48,219

He doesn't go get a girl of

his own or anything like that.

:

00:55:48,229 --> 00:55:49,539

He doesn't cuss anymore.

:

00:55:49,879 --> 00:55:51,599

He doesn't drink anymore.

:

00:55:51,989 --> 00:55:54,899

These are all the things

that we like about him.

:

00:55:55,944 --> 00:55:58,704

And he defends Ned, right?

:

00:55:58,704 --> 00:56:02,004

When Ned first meets the kid and the kid's

like, I'm not splitting my money with him.

:

00:56:02,004 --> 00:56:03,154

I don't want to go along with him.

:

00:56:03,524 --> 00:56:05,134

He says, all right, well

then we're going back.

:

00:56:05,204 --> 00:56:05,774

You know what I mean?

:

00:56:05,774 --> 00:56:10,194

Like he needs this money, but he's

not gonna, you know, refuse Ned.

:

00:56:10,324 --> 00:56:11,364

He's going to stick up for him.

:

00:56:11,504 --> 00:56:11,814

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:56:11,874 --> 00:56:15,604

Jerome: So, and again, when Davey

is shot, And screaming in pain for

:

00:56:15,604 --> 00:56:18,834

some water, which is another kind

of, although it's sad for Davey,

:

00:56:18,834 --> 00:56:20,094

it's kind of a comical scene.

:

00:56:20,954 --> 00:56:23,454

Will yells out, we give him

some water, God damn it.

:

00:56:23,464 --> 00:56:24,374

We ain't going to shoot.

:

00:56:25,934 --> 00:56:30,374

So you see that even as a killer,

he has moments of heart, right?

:

00:56:30,924 --> 00:56:34,244

So here's where I get to the sad

reality of his spiritual journey.

:

00:56:35,499 --> 00:56:39,409

He mentions several times that he

barely remembers any of the killings

:

00:56:39,459 --> 00:56:43,399

or any of his stories of the past

because he, you know, whatever, he was

:

00:56:43,399 --> 00:56:45,209

too drunk or he doesn't remember them.

:

00:56:45,969 --> 00:56:51,369

If his wife Claudia cured him of drinking

in wickedness, as he put it, and gave him

:

00:56:51,399 --> 00:56:56,609

two loving children, then he was never

really punished for any of his past sins.

:

00:56:57,699 --> 00:56:59,689

Claudia eventually dying of smallpox?

:

00:57:00,334 --> 00:57:03,724

Eh, that's not a punishment to him,

because it wasn't at his hands.

:

00:57:03,804 --> 00:57:04,344

Right.

:

00:57:04,664 --> 00:57:05,074

Right?

:

00:57:05,524 --> 00:57:09,114

The opening crawl suggests it was not

at his hands, she died a smallpox.

:

00:57:09,474 --> 00:57:13,184

He didn't do anything that he would feel

guilty about when it comes to Claudia.

:

00:57:13,744 --> 00:57:16,424

That is why this journey had to happen.

:

00:57:16,814 --> 00:57:18,254

Will has to suffer.

:

00:57:18,454 --> 00:57:20,434

He has to pay for his sins.

:

00:57:20,754 --> 00:57:24,104

This time, he recruits his

best friend Ned to go along.

:

00:57:24,574 --> 00:57:26,334

Ned never makes it back alive.

:

00:57:26,334 --> 00:57:27,004

Yeah.

:

00:57:27,389 --> 00:57:32,259

That's because of will will is going to

fill that guilt for the rest of his life.

:

00:57:32,714 --> 00:57:36,524

That he got Ned into this and

Ned was, and he didn't just die.

:

00:57:36,604 --> 00:57:38,314

He was whipped to death.

:

00:57:38,954 --> 00:57:41,334

It was a bad death, right?

:

00:57:41,764 --> 00:57:44,484

That's his punishment

that he now has to endure.

:

00:57:44,724 --> 00:57:46,214

Because of him, Ned is dead.

:

00:57:46,514 --> 00:57:47,954

This is supported throughout the film.

:

00:57:47,974 --> 00:57:51,884

Specifically when he's dying, he

says that he sees visions and ghosts.

:

00:57:52,174 --> 00:57:56,864

These spirits of his victims are the angel

of death coming to collect for his past.

:

00:57:57,434 --> 00:57:58,294

Killing him!

:

00:57:58,509 --> 00:58:01,379

Particularly at that moment,

like from the fever, that would

:

00:58:01,379 --> 00:58:03,039

have been too humane for Will.

:

00:58:03,339 --> 00:58:04,439

He needs to suffer.

:

00:58:04,709 --> 00:58:07,719

The guilt of being responsible

for Ned's death is going to

:

00:58:07,729 --> 00:58:09,079

cut deeper than any death.

:

00:58:09,379 --> 00:58:12,649

The angel of death was certainly

there, but it wasn't coming for him.

:

00:58:12,649 --> 00:58:13,619

It was coming for Ned.

:

00:58:14,729 --> 00:58:18,249

Eventually, Ned suffers again, like

I said, the most brutal of deaths,

:

00:58:18,699 --> 00:58:21,009

and that's his payment for his sins.

:

00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:23,479

That's Ned's payment for the

sins that he did in the past.

:

00:58:25,414 --> 00:58:29,384

Within the killing of the young Davy

scene, Ned fails to do the killing

:

00:58:29,644 --> 00:58:32,074

this losing his nerve and falters.

:

00:58:32,114 --> 00:58:33,914

This is emasculating for him.

:

00:58:34,324 --> 00:58:36,314

He was a once hardened killer himself.

:

00:58:36,534 --> 00:58:42,334

Now he feels that he's forced to quit, you

know, almost out of embarrassment, right?

:

00:58:43,594 --> 00:58:51,714

And like, in a way, he at that

point, quitting and leaving should

:

00:58:51,714 --> 00:58:53,074

have saved him, but it didn't.

:

00:58:53,104 --> 00:58:54,454

The boys caught up to him and killed him.

:

00:58:54,944 --> 00:58:56,194

So, that's on Will.

:

00:58:56,844 --> 00:59:00,424

Another side point, the rain serves as

a driving factor throughout the film.

:

00:59:00,684 --> 00:59:02,574

First, it's dark and mysterious.

:

00:59:02,734 --> 00:59:06,354

You know, most of the film, the

brutal scenes happen when it rains.

:

00:59:06,444 --> 00:59:08,604

English Bob's beatdown

is the only exception.

:

00:59:09,084 --> 00:59:10,544

That happened in the broad daylight.

:

00:59:10,874 --> 00:59:13,304

But everything else the

cowboy's cutting Delilah.

:

00:59:13,709 --> 00:59:14,989

In the beginning, it's raining.

:

00:59:15,009 --> 00:59:17,289

When Will gets sick and gets

the shit kicked out of him

:

00:59:17,289 --> 00:59:18,699

by little Bill, it's raining.

:

00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:22,439

And of course the ending scene where

he kills five people, it's raining.

:

00:59:22,989 --> 00:59:27,559

Also almost comically, the rain serves

as a metaphor when the biographer

:

00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:31,529

is back at little Bill's house and

Bill's filling these pages that he's

:

00:59:31,529 --> 00:59:35,349

writing down with this load of BS that

little Bill's giving him about how

:

00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:37,539

great he is and what a bad ass he is.

:

00:59:37,549 --> 00:59:37,799

Right.

:

00:59:37,849 --> 00:59:39,449

The rain's coming through the roof.

:

00:59:39,769 --> 00:59:43,699

So that's a metaphor that there's

holes in this story, right?

:

00:59:44,609 --> 00:59:48,819

That as much as he's telling about

how great he is, it's bullshit.

:

00:59:48,859 --> 00:59:50,709

And that's why the roof

is leaking all the water.

:

00:59:50,709 --> 00:59:52,779

And he has that funny moment

where he's like, Oh, maybe you

:

00:59:52,779 --> 00:59:54,169

should just hang the carpenter.

:

00:59:55,469 --> 00:59:58,069

Little Bill gets pissed

because he was the carpenter.

:

00:59:58,149 --> 00:59:58,479

Yeah.

:

00:59:58,639 --> 00:59:59,199

All right.

:

00:59:59,329 --> 01:00:01,009

Few more points of

trivia before we move on.

:

01:00:01,009 --> 01:00:05,889

A thousand dollar bounty in:

is worth nearly 31 grand today.

:

01:00:06,389 --> 01:00:07,689

Shot in Alberta, Canada.

:

01:00:07,699 --> 01:00:09,539

The town of Big Whiskey is fictional.

:

01:00:09,939 --> 01:00:19,029

Clint has directed 16 feature films before

Unforgiven, and another 23 films after.

:

01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:24,509

Unforgiven, his 17th film,

was the first of his to garner

:

01:00:24,579 --> 01:00:26,739

any acting nominations ever.

:

01:00:26,879 --> 01:00:27,299

Wow.

:

01:00:27,579 --> 01:00:29,269

And a Best Picture nomination.

:

01:00:29,509 --> 01:00:34,299

For the 24 films since Unforgiven,

Eleven acting roles had Oscar

:

01:00:34,299 --> 01:00:35,819

nominations and four of them won.

:

01:00:36,339 --> 01:00:39,789

Here are the supporting roles

in Clint directed movies.

:

01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:42,809

Gene Hackman in Unforgiven, that

was the first one, and he won.

:

01:00:43,229 --> 01:00:45,339

Tim Robbins, Mystic River, he won as well.

:

01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:46,289

That's two in a row.

:

01:00:46,909 --> 01:00:49,519

Marcia Gay Harden, Mystic

River, also was nominated.

:

01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:50,149

She didn't win.

:

01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:53,209

Morgan Freeman, Million

Dollar Baby,:

:

01:00:53,359 --> 01:00:56,089

So that's three Oscars in

the Best Supporting Category

:

01:00:56,099 --> 01:00:57,489

in Clint directed films.

:

01:00:57,989 --> 01:01:02,509

Matt Damon, nominated for Best Supporting

:

:

01:01:02,509 --> 01:01:05,039

s for Rich in Richard Jewell,:

:

01:01:06,019 --> 01:01:08,389

Also, here's the leading roles.

:

01:01:08,979 --> 01:01:09,999

Clint was the first.

:

01:01:09,999 --> 01:01:12,629

He directed himself to a

Best Actor nomination in 92.

:

01:01:12,779 --> 01:01:13,499

That was the first one.

:

01:01:13,799 --> 01:01:17,119

Meryl Streep, nominated for Best

Actress in:

:

01:01:17,299 --> 01:01:20,079

Sean Penn, Mystic River,

:

:

01:01:20,409 --> 01:01:24,079

Hilary Swank, Million

Dollar Baby,:

:

01:01:24,189 --> 01:01:25,749

So that's back to back years.

:

01:01:26,249 --> 01:01:29,269

Where the lead role in a Clint

directed movie won the Oscar.

:

01:01:29,979 --> 01:01:31,829

Clint Eastwood was also

nominated for Million Dollar

:

01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:33,359

Baby in:

:

01:01:33,389 --> 01:01:37,659

Angelina Jolie, nominated for Best

Actress in Changeling,:

:

01:01:37,919 --> 01:01:41,179

Morgan Freeman, nominated Best

Actor in Invictus,:

:

01:01:41,459 --> 01:01:46,259

And finally, Bradley Cooper, nominated

for American Sniper,:

:

01:01:46,749 --> 01:01:47,899

But, isn't that crazy?

:

01:01:48,129 --> 01:01:48,279

Yeah.

:

01:01:48,279 --> 01:01:51,329

That he had directed, it's almost

like he took those 16 films to really

:

01:01:51,329 --> 01:01:52,799

figure out how to work with actors.

:

01:01:53,049 --> 01:01:53,379

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:01:53,439 --> 01:01:55,789

Jerome: And then once Unforgiven

hit, everything after that

:

01:01:55,789 --> 01:01:57,239

was fuckin Oscar gold.

:

01:01:57,429 --> 01:01:58,809

Chris: Yeah, that's awesome.

:

01:01:59,399 --> 01:02:01,689

Jerome: Clinton himself has four

Oscars, two for directing, two

:

01:02:01,689 --> 01:02:02,759

for producing a Best Picture.

:

01:02:02,909 --> 01:02:05,049

Two for Unforgiven, two

for Million Dollar Baby.

:

01:02:05,099 --> 01:02:05,979

No acting Oscars.

:

01:02:06,349 --> 01:02:09,369

The screenplay floated around

Hollywood for nearly 20 years.

:

01:02:09,379 --> 01:02:10,259

Chris: Isn't that crazy?

:

01:02:10,379 --> 01:02:12,989

Jerome: Yeah, and it reminds me of

how, you know, there's that story

:

01:02:12,989 --> 01:02:15,899

that the book for Schindler's List

was in Spielberg's drawer for 11

:

01:02:15,909 --> 01:02:18,669

years before he decided to make it.

:

01:02:18,899 --> 01:02:21,919

It's just funny to me how these things

sort of linger, you know what I mean?

:

01:02:21,929 --> 01:02:22,319

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:02:22,379 --> 01:02:25,179

Jerome: And they don't ever get

made, or when they do finally

:

01:02:25,179 --> 01:02:26,859

get made, they're masterpieces.

:

01:02:26,919 --> 01:02:27,259

Right.

:

01:02:27,599 --> 01:02:30,189

You know, and it likely went

through a lot of rewrites.

:

01:02:30,279 --> 01:02:34,499

In fact, there's one version of Unforgiven

where the Schofield kid is so guilt

:

01:02:34,509 --> 01:02:35,939

ridden at the end, he drowns himself.

:

01:02:35,939 --> 01:02:41,469

Uh, As stated earlier, the film was

th,:

:

01:02:41,479 --> 01:02:44,799

birthday, Frances Fisher, who plays

strawberry Alice and just dating

:

01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:49,038

Clint at the time, she was four months

pregnant at the Academy Awards when the

:

01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:53,999

movie won best picture her and Clint's

daughter, Francesca was later born on.

:

01:02:54,413 --> 01:02:59,094

th,:

:

01:02:59,094 --> 01:02:59,604

Chris: Crazy.

:

01:03:00,324 --> 01:03:02,854

Jerome: You see how Unforgiven

and Clint and Francis Fisher,

:

01:03:02,884 --> 01:03:03,904

it all comes back to me.

:

01:03:03,954 --> 01:03:04,254

Yeah.

:

01:03:04,904 --> 01:03:10,324

Two credits are incorrectly swapped in the

closing credit sequence on IMDb as well

:

01:03:10,324 --> 01:03:13,004

because IMDb follows what's on screen.

:

01:03:13,534 --> 01:03:15,264

But two of the prostitutes are wrong.

:

01:03:15,274 --> 01:03:19,964

It says Faith, who was actually played

by Beverly Elliott, says that she

:

01:03:19,964 --> 01:03:21,804

played Beverly Elliott played Silky.

:

01:03:21,944 --> 01:03:22,744

And Silky.

:

01:03:23,484 --> 01:03:26,594

was actually played by Lisa Repo Martel.

:

01:03:26,654 --> 01:03:28,004

It says that she played Faith.

:

01:03:28,304 --> 01:03:28,714

Hmm.

:

01:03:29,324 --> 01:03:33,474

The get it wrong on the film, like whoever

was doing the credits got it wrong.

:

01:03:33,494 --> 01:03:34,134

Wow.

:

01:03:34,234 --> 01:03:34,374

That's crazy.

:

01:03:34,374 --> 01:03:37,264

And again, IMDB follows what's on screen.

:

01:03:37,384 --> 01:03:40,904

They also have it wrong, but if you look

at both of those actresses individual

:

01:03:40,904 --> 01:03:45,674

pages on the trivia part, it mentions

that, that they are incorrectly credited.

:

01:03:45,804 --> 01:03:46,244

Chris: Interesting.

:

01:03:46,274 --> 01:03:46,814

Jerome: Yeah, I know.

:

01:03:46,844 --> 01:03:47,234

So cool.

:

01:03:47,264 --> 01:03:48,344

First time I ever saw that.

:

01:03:48,344 --> 01:03:50,874

First time I ever saw that

somebody got the credits wrong.

:

01:03:51,304 --> 01:03:52,194

How do you fuck that up?

:

01:03:52,194 --> 01:03:53,244

You had one job, dude.

:

01:03:53,404 --> 01:03:54,364

You had one job.

:

01:03:54,913 --> 01:03:58,494

Alright, last thing on Unforgiven before

I turn it over to you on Final Thoughts.

:

01:03:58,724 --> 01:04:01,454

There's a fan theory

going around the internet.

:

01:04:02,459 --> 01:04:06,359

That the character, Clint Eastwood's

character, Dirty Harry, is a

:

01:04:06,399 --> 01:04:07,819

descendant of William Money.

:

01:04:08,399 --> 01:04:12,479

And here's why, not only because it's

played by the same guy, but they have a

:

01:04:12,479 --> 01:04:17,538

similar savvy with a gun, with a handgun,

they're ruthless to criminals, but most

:

01:04:17,538 --> 01:04:22,089

importantly, the end crawl of Unforgiven

states that he moved to San Francisco,

:

01:04:22,089 --> 01:04:24,459

where he prospered in dry goods.

:

01:04:24,919 --> 01:04:30,439

Dirty Harry movies all take place in

San Francisco, where Harry can't land.

:

01:04:30,619 --> 01:04:34,339

Is an inspector for the San

Francisco Police Department.

:

01:04:34,619 --> 01:04:35,249

That's great.

:

01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:36,059

I love it.

:

01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:39,189

Well I, well I finished my whiskey,

give me your final thoughts here.

:

01:04:40,288 --> 01:04:41,319

Chris: Well, as usual.

:

01:04:41,329 --> 01:04:41,889

How much of

:

01:04:41,889 --> 01:04:44,809

Jerome: this, well yeah, but how

much of this that I just rattled

:

01:04:44,809 --> 01:04:47,894

off did you notice and see when

you were watching the movie?

:

01:04:47,984 --> 01:04:49,934

Are you at the point now where

you're watching a movie like this

:

01:04:49,944 --> 01:04:51,154

and you're like, Oh, all is lost.

:

01:04:51,374 --> 01:04:51,544

Oh,

:

01:04:51,574 --> 01:04:52,284

Chris: there's the midpoint.

:

01:04:52,284 --> 01:04:53,034

Yeah, actually.

:

01:04:53,034 --> 01:04:53,604

Yeah.

:

01:04:53,604 --> 01:04:54,154

A lot of that.

:

01:04:54,154 --> 01:04:54,774

I did see.

:

01:04:54,774 --> 01:04:55,194

Yeah.

:

01:04:55,224 --> 01:04:56,234

Especially now.

:

01:04:56,274 --> 01:04:58,184

I mean, not probably

the first time I saw it.

:

01:04:58,224 --> 01:04:58,554

Right.

:

01:04:58,614 --> 01:05:00,574

But I'm watching it.

:

01:05:00,594 --> 01:05:02,174

Yeah, I, I do that all the time.

:

01:05:02,174 --> 01:05:03,163

I'll nudge Jesse.

:

01:05:03,163 --> 01:05:04,674

I'm like, Oh, all is lost right here.

:

01:05:07,374 --> 01:05:07,904

Shut up.

:

01:05:08,074 --> 01:05:08,924

Watch the movie.

:

01:05:09,244 --> 01:05:09,264

How

:

01:05:09,514 --> 01:05:10,374

Jerome: did Jesse like it?

:

01:05:10,494 --> 01:05:11,614

Was that the first time she'd seen it?

:

01:05:12,014 --> 01:05:16,674

Chris: No, and she fell asleep because

that's what she does in action films.

:

01:05:16,884 --> 01:05:17,604

Oh my god.

:

01:05:17,964 --> 01:05:22,639

I know, but the next day she was like,

Why, why are you guys doing these

:

01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:29,038

movies because she watched she walked

in on wick also She's like, oh, oh,

:

01:05:29,038 --> 01:05:36,899

no, you know And when Jesse says, oh,

oh no that kind of sums up her review

:

01:05:37,959 --> 01:05:40,339

Jerome: Anyone that needs to

know about our Fargo episode

:

01:05:40,339 --> 01:05:41,499

go back and listen to that

:

01:05:42,989 --> 01:05:44,269

Chris: She was kind of horrified.

:

01:05:44,279 --> 01:05:47,719

She's like, what do you guys see in

these movies are just so violent.

:

01:05:48,259 --> 01:05:51,844

Jerome: Yes, but they're great

movies They're great movies.

:

01:05:51,874 --> 01:05:52,224

Okay.

:

01:05:52,474 --> 01:05:55,394

Chris: Well, before we move on, I was

going to say, we're going to do six

:

01:05:55,394 --> 01:05:57,784

degrees at the end of the next episode.

:

01:05:57,834 --> 01:06:02,144

You want, you want to just give a tease on

what the, what the six degrees will be on.

:

01:06:02,144 --> 01:06:06,004

That way if our listener wants to

try to figure it out before the

:

01:06:06,004 --> 01:06:07,294

next episode, they can get a shot.

:

01:06:07,874 --> 01:06:10,384

Jerome: I like how we still

say listener as singular.

:

01:06:11,684 --> 01:06:12,144

Chris: Well,

:

01:06:14,034 --> 01:06:14,904

Jerome: We have one listener.

:

01:06:14,934 --> 01:06:15,304

Yeah,

:

01:06:15,394 --> 01:06:16,494

Chris: we know who you are.

:

01:06:16,884 --> 01:06:17,784

Thanks, mom.

:

01:06:17,904 --> 01:06:18,084

No.

:

01:06:18,264 --> 01:06:18,864

Jerome: Anyway.

:

01:06:19,224 --> 01:06:19,913

Anyway, yeah.

:

01:06:19,913 --> 01:06:21,954

So uh, my brother uh, perfect.

:

01:06:21,954 --> 01:06:22,614

True to form.

:

01:06:22,944 --> 01:06:26,094

Tried to pick two people

that are hardly in anything.

:

01:06:26,094 --> 01:06:26,184

Yep.

:

01:06:26,719 --> 01:06:32,359

And uh, uh, Aline Lavasseur,

who plays William Money's

:

01:06:32,359 --> 01:06:34,149

youngest young daughter, Penny.

:

01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:35,229

Chris: Penny, Penny Money.

:

01:06:35,269 --> 01:06:39,219

Jerome: Uh, In uh, Penny Money

in uh, which is kind of funny.

:

01:06:39,249 --> 01:06:40,829

Penny, Money, Penny Money.

:

01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:42,538

Uh, In Unforgiven.

:

01:06:42,949 --> 01:06:48,799

Uh, With Bridget uh, Reagan, who

plays Addie, the bartender of

:

01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:50,739

the Continental, in John Wick.

:

01:06:50,829 --> 01:06:52,419

So he wanted me to connect those two.

:

01:06:53,469 --> 01:06:55,499

Chris: And she hasn't

been in a lot either, so.

:

01:06:55,999 --> 01:06:57,439

Jerome: Right this was a fun one.

:

01:06:57,469 --> 01:06:58,029

So yeah, we're

:

01:06:58,029 --> 01:07:01,089

Chris: gonna, we're gonna solve

this at the end of the next episode.

:

01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:06,919

Well, as we always say at the end of each

episode first of all, thanks for listening

:

01:07:06,949 --> 01:07:09,619

and uh, go support your local cinema.

:

01:07:09,799 --> 01:07:10,959

Jerome: Keep drinking and keep watching.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jerome Wiegand

Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand