Episode 13
Unforgiven (1992) WICK UNFORGIVEN - Part One
Analyzing 'Unforgiven' (1992)
A must-listen for movie buffs and aspiring screenwriters! Chris and Jerome dig into the thematic elements of Clint Eastwood’s 'Unforgiven' in this first of a two-part series that explores a "once a killer theme". Jerome provides an insightful breakdown using Blake Snyder's storytelling structure, while Chris shares entertaining anecdotes and whiskey pairings. The episode features lively discussions, trivia, character analyses, and a humorous take on Chris' wife's aversion to violent films. Closing it out, they tease an upcoming 'Six Degrees of Separation' challenge and encourage listeners to support local cinemas.
00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Excitement
01:06 Movie Selections: Unforgiven and John Wick
02:30 Drinks and Personal Stories
05:37 Unforgiven: Movie Details and Initial Thoughts
14:47 Unforgiven: Themes and Character Analysis
35:03 Myth vs. Reality: The Final Example
35:11 Foreshadowing the Ending
36:14 Will's Transformation Begins
37:56 Midpoint: A False Defeat
40:15 The Final Myth vs. Reality Moment
42:43 The Kid's Breakdown
44:27 Will's Return to Violence
47:03 The Climactic Showdown
52:59 Character Analysis and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
You are listening to the Silver Screen Happy Hour.
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:I'm Chris Wiegand, along
with my brother Jerome.
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:We do have some, some drinks to pair
with these movies and I'm gonna have
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:to intermix it with some water cause
it's just whiskey today, folks.
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:Jerome: Oh, hell yeah.
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:Chris: Well, Jerome, you might
have some lightsaber backup.
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:You usually do.
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:Jerome: I always do.
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:I know I do.
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:Yeah, no, I'm excited about today.
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:I haven't been I'm excited for every
episode, to be honest with you.
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:Chris: Yeah.
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:Jerome: Even if I'm gonna set it up with
Even when we decide on movies that I'm not
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:100 percent in love with, like, we'll have
movies that are topical, and I'm like, oh,
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:those are good movies, we could do that.
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:By the time I'm done with
the notes, I'm fired up.
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:Because I learn more,
right, about the movies.
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:And even if it's movies that I've seen,
like, Silence of the Lambs, I've loved
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:for years, and I've seen a million times,
but when I really broke it down by notes,
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:I was like, God, I love it even more now.
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:So, but this one?
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:This one I was particularly excited for
and after the notes I'm, I'm, I'm I'm
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:lit up like a fucking Christmas tree.
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:Chris: Alright, so what are the
movies we're talking about today?
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:Jerome: We are doing the 1992
Unforgiven starring Clint Eastwood
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:and the I believe it's 2014?
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:Yep.
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:Is that what it is?
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:2014, John Wick, the first
one, starring Keanu Reeves.
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:The reason we picked these
movies is they both kind of serve
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:this I was once a killer theme.
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:You know, where they're kind of
in retirement for whatever reason.
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:And they come out of
retirement for, for something.
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:Something pulls them back into the life.
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:So I was intrigued by
doing these two movies.
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:I know that it's a common theme,
actually, when you think of a lot of
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:movies that have ex assassins taken
as another example of a, you know,
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:a CIA operative or whatever, who's
now retired and in the normal life.
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:And something happens where he has to
get back into it and kick everybody's
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:ass that gets in front of him.
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:So we love these movies because we,
you know, we, we see themselves as
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:these guys like, Oh, you know, with
the things you'll do to, you know,
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:to right the wrongs of the world.
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:So we were very much excited about
the concept of once a killer.
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:Chris: My son, Josh was over and he was
watching John Wick with me this time.
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:He's like, We were talking about
it and he's like, man, you know, I
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:mean, I know he was an assassin and
stuff, but someone killed my dog that
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:my wife, my dead wife just gave me.
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:I've become a killer too.
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:Jerome: Well, we're going to talk
about, we got a lot to talk about
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:with John Wick and we got a lot to
talk about with Unforgiven, but let's
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:start off with what are you drinking?
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:Chris: Well, I'm just went to I'm calling
it generic whiskey because the brand of
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:whiskey has nothing to do with the movie.
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:So I'm going with an Irish whiskey.
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:Hold on, let me get
the audio of this pour.
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:Jerome: Ooh!
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:Chris: Oh yeah.
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:There we go, a little Jameson simply
because it's a lazy day and I didn't
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:I didn't get the bottle that I wanted.
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:I think you got the bottle
that I would have wanted.
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:Jerome: Okay, so, first I gotta,
I gotta, a comment on yours.
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:Alright.
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:My brother has a big jug of Jameson.
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:Oh, it's a Sam's Club
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:Chris: jug.
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:Jerome: Right, so let me guess
well, of course, cost of living
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:in Michigan's a little bit more
reasonable than California.
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:In California, that's a 50 bottle.
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:Yeah, it's about the same here.
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:Is that, is that about the same?
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:Okay, so it's 50 at Costco.
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:So here's the story.
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:Yeah.
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:I recently had my 49th birthday, the
tender age of 49, and my wife was like,
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:you know what get whatever you want, You
know, I don't really know what to get you.
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:So, I'll give you a hundred dollar
budget to get a bottle of your choosing.
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:Nice.
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:Happy birthday.
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:So, I go to Costco where
the prices are the best.
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:And I see that Jameson's jug for
50 bucks and I'm like, you know,
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:I could just get two bottles of
Jameson's and meet the budget.
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:But then I was like, nah, fuck that,
I'm gonna get something really nice.
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:I ended up getting, this isn't
it, or this is a different story.
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:I ended up getting myself 85 bottles.
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:dollar bottle of Macallan.
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:It was very nice scotch.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And and I brought it home to
find that my wife, while I was at
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:Costco getting this bottle through
a little surprise party for me.
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:So I had all my neighbors over.
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:Nice.
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:And one of 'em e my buddy Eric,
who lives down the street, him and
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:his lady Siri, who are engaged they
actually got me this Blanton's nice
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:original single barrel bourbon whiskey.
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:And it's the exact bottle from John Wick.
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:They had no idea.
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:It just happens to be,
this is just serendipitous.
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:Yeah, that's great.
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:It's the bottle that's, it's the bottle
that, for those of you seen the movie,
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:Keanu Reeves calls up, you know, he's, he
needs to be stitched up by the doctor and
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:they give him bourbon as a pain reliever.
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:And this is the bottle they send up.
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:So it's a very nice Blanton's
whiskey from the movie.
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:And I am going to open up mine now.
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:So I normally don't use rocks.
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:You know me, I have a thing
against ice, but John wick had
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:ice in his glass when he drank it.
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:Yep.
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:So you, if Keanu can't go wrong.
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:Then I can't go wrong.
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:Here we go.
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:You ready?
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:Chris: Nice.
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:Jerome: I want to go more than
that, but I probably shouldn't.
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:Chris: Have you tried this stuff yet?
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:Jerome: I have never had it before.
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:Chris: Okay.
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:Jerome: So introductory sip.
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:Here we go.
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:Oh boy, that'll put hair on your balls.
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:Chris: It's gonna be a good show, people.
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:Jerome: Very nice, it's gonna
be a really good show, people.
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:Alright, what do you want to start with?
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:I kind of wanted to go with
Unforgiven, like chronological.
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:Chris: Yeah, let's go chronological.
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:Jerome: All right, so I'll
give you the specs here.
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:Unforgiven 1992 directed by Clint
Eastwood, written by David Webb.
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:People's running time is two hours,
10 minutes, and a budget of 14.
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:4 million.
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:It was released on my 17th
th,:
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:It made over 101 million domestic,
which is good for 11th place that year.
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:Just behind the number 10 film.
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:A league of their own at 107 million.
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:Guess what the number
one movie as of 92 was
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:Chris: 92.
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:Oh man.
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:I don't know.
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:What was
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:Jerome: it?
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:And it's funny that today like the
number one movies are always movies
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:that top a billion dollars That's
the top grossing movie of:
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:was at 217 million domestically.
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:Wow it was aladdin Aladdin.
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:No
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:Chris: kidding.
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:Okay.
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:Jerome: Yeah.
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:All right.
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:Unforgiven was nominated for nine Academy
Awards and won four of them, including
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:Best Picture, Clint for Best Director.
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:His first Oscar.
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:He now has four, by the
way, but that was his first.
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:It also won for Joel Cox's film editing
and Best Supporting Actor, Gene Hackman.
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:His second Oscar.
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:His first was for Best Actor for
the French Connection back in 71.
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:Side note.
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:Side note, Clint was also
nominated for Best Actor for this
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:movie, but he lost to Al Pacino.
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:In Son of a Woman, which was Al's
first and only Oscar, which many
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:felt was a makeup award for all the
years he got dicked over in the 70s.
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:Okay.
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:It stars Clint Eastwood as William Money,
Gene Hackman as little Bill Daggett Morgan
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:Freeman as Ned Logan, Richard Harris as
English Bob as well as co stars Francis
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:Fisher, who was dating Clint at the time.
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:Another little funny story there.
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:I think I have it in the trivia.
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:So we'll get to it later.
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:She plays strawberry Alice James
Wolvette as the Schofield kid.
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:That's literally his character's name.
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:They don't ever say
what his name is, right?
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:It's just the Schofield kid Saul
Ruben Eck is WWE Bo champ and Anna
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:Thompson as Delilah Fitzgerald Yeah,
the physically assaulted prostitute
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:Chris: who is also in a movie.
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:We just did
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:Jerome: wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait.
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:And your God, you fucking
jumped the gun here.
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:I was literally about to say a few
connections to the previous podcast.
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:We just did Saul Ruben Eck, who
plays WW boat champ and Anna
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:Thompson, who plays Delilah.
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:We're both in true romance.
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:Yeah.
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:Which is the film we covered before this.
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:And of course, Gene Hackman
was in Bonnie and Clyde.
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:So actually, three of them.
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:Which we also covered
on a previous episode.
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:Yep.
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:Another almost kind of bizarre weird
connection, if you could call it that.
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:The character of the Schofield kid in
Unforgiven is played by James Wolvet.
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:But when I first saw the movie,
I remember thinking that it was
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:Christian Slater at first sight.
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:Oh, cause of the eyes?
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:Yeah.
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:Because he looks a lot like him.
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:Until I realized it wasn't him.
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:But, Kristen Slater was
also in True Romance.
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:So, if it was Kristen
Slater, we'd have a trifecta.
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:Right.
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:Okay, when did you first see this movie?
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:Chris: Oh man, I probably
saw it at the theater.
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:I was thinking about this
and I could not remember.
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:I remember it was really hyped up in 92.
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:And, You know, I mean, I don't know.
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:I know I saw it in 92.
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:I think I saw it at the theater.
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:And I've seen it a bunch of times.
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:We had it on DVD, I think.
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:Man, I couldn't find the DVD when I
was preparing for this, and thankfully
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:it was on sale with It was like half
off on Amazon Prime, so I just bought
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:it for like seven bucks or something.
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:So, yeah, I've seen it several times.
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:I know I saw it in 92.
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:Something funny about the name,
I guess this is trivia, but
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:I'm gonna throw it in here now.
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:So this came out what
month did it come out?
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:Do you remember?
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:Jerome: August 7th.
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:It came out on
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:Chris: your birthday.
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:So, August 7th, 92.
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:A few months earlier, in 91 a song that
was playing on the radio in 92 came
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:out called The Unforgiven by Metallica.
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:And it was just coincidental
timing, I think.
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:And it just so happened that you
had this number one song on the
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:radio and a number one movie at
the box office at the same time.
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:So, it's kinda cool.
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:Yeah.
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:Jerome: I was actually going to
mention that as well because uh,
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:Metallica's black album came out.
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:One year before, I want to
say it was August of 91.
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:So almost exactly a year before,
but by the time the Unforgiven
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:single was hitting the radio, the
hype for this movie was coming out.
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:And I remember thinking they made
a movie out of this song already.
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:And then I realized,
Oh no, it's a Western.
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:It has nothing to do with
the mood with the song.
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:But I still thought.
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:Like, before I'd even seen the
movie or anything and knew really
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:what it was about, I didn't
really know what it was about.
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:I was like, I bet you
that song's in the movie.
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:I bet you it's in the
closing credits or something.
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:So, I couldn't have been more wrong
and I'm glad that I was way off.
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:Because that wouldn't have fit at all.
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:Right, right.
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:But yeah, kind of funny that
like you said, the number one
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:movie and the number one song.
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:I saw it, again, also in the theater.
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:And, ah, man, I just I was
floored then, but I wasn't as
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:big into Westerns at the time.
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:That might've been actually, dad made
me watch a fistful of dollars when
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:I was like 10 years old and and I
was like, yeah, that's kind of cool.
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:But you know, I was
into star Wars and shit.
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:So I'm like, eh, it's
not really my cup of tea.
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:I didn't get into
Westerns till I get older.
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:And I want to say this might've
been the movie that did it
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:because after this movie.
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:I went back and watched fuckin Outlaw
Josie Wales and High Plains Drifter.
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:I really got into Clint's older movies.
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:Well,
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:Chris: and I remember Dad
liked those spaghetti westerns.
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:Yeah.
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:Jerome: And,
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:Chris: you know, like, When one
was on cable, if he was channel
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:serving, he was going to stop.
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:Yeah.
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:And so I saw parts of a bunch of them.
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:Yeah.
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:But just because dad stopped, you
know, on a, on a Sunday scroll.
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:Jerome: It's like what you and I would
do now if we're flipping through and
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:like Roadhouse is on, you know, like,
like I know that Vivi's going to grow
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:up someday and tell people like, yeah.
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:If you know, Top Gun happened to be
on TBS, that's what we were watching.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Like, whatever.
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:Of course everything's streaming now.
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:I think
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:Chris: this was probably the first,
like, modern day like produced Western
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:that I saw because, you know, I mean,
Westerns weren't a big, I don't think
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:they were a very big genre in Hollywood.
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:Right.
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:That's why they're there.
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:They could film them cheap in, in Italy.
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:That's why they call them a
spaghetti Westerns, right?
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:Yeah.
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:This one actually
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:Jerome: was shot in Canada, but
yeah, all the older North America.
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:Chris: Yeah.
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:Jerome: Yeah, all of Clint's
older ones, yeah, were shot in
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:Italy because it was cheaper.
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:Yeah.
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:And so yeah, I mean, he made a
lot of them, and I went back and
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:watched, like, all of them, man.
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:I wanted to really, this
movie got me so into it that I
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:started to watch all of them.
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:You know what?
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:I actually take that back.
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:Young Guns was probably the
first Western I actually watched.
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:When did that come out?
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:Um, That was like late 80s, I want
to say 88, 87, something like that.
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:Chris: Oh.
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:Jerome: You'll have to look that up.
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:Do you have it in front of you?
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:Chris: I will in a moment.
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:Jerome: Okay, well while you're looking
that up yeah, so, but Unforgiven
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:really got me into Clint's Westerns.
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:Oh, you're right,
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:Chris: 88.
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:Jerome: 88, so, but, but, like I said,
so when I got into Clint, man, I went
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:back and watched all those old ones, and
I really fell in love with I think the
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:good and the bad, the ugly might be one
of the, the greatest westerns of all time.
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:Unforgiving is up there though, man.
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:Yeah.
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:Unforgiving is up there.
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:Yeah.
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:Another one
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:Chris: that came to mind was
Tombstone, which actually came
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:out the following year 93.
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:Jerome: Yeah.
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:And you know what?
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:I wouldn't be surprised if the pushes
by the, if the push by the studios
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:to get something like that out was
because of unforgiving and its success.
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:Right?
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:Yeah.
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:Right.
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:You know?
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:Because I mean, look what
happened after gladiator came out.
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:I mean, all of a sudden you had sword
and sandal shit all over the place and
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:they were making HBO series, you know,
about it and all of a sudden everybody
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:was in the Spartacus again, you know,
so I wouldn't doubt that tombstone,
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:you know, although it was probably in
production anyway, they rushed that shit.
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:Once best picture was announced,
they're like, we got to get
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:tombstone in theaters like ASAP.
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:Chris: And wasn't there, there were like
two studios did Westerns in 93 tombstone
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:and what else, what was the other one?
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:Jerome: Well, there was Wyatt Earp.
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:I thought that was a year later though.
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:I thought, I thought that was in 94.
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:I look, I think
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:Chris: I thought they were, I thought
they came out around the same time.
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:Jerome: I think, yeah.
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:Kevin Coster did his
version of White Earp.
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:I thought they were a year apart,
but I, I could be wrong on that.
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:I thought Wyatt Earp came out in 94.
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:Oh, you're right.
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:Chris: It was, for some reason, I
thought they were the same time.
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:Jerome: But, but I mean, think about that.
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:Like, now talk about getting
that rushed, you know.
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:I mean, after Unforgiven, everybody
was like, all of a sudden we have
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:to have all these Westerns now.
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:Chris: Yeah, yep.
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:Jerome: So alright.
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:Log me.
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:Chris: Retired Old West gunslinger William
Money reluctantly takes on one last job
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:With the help of his old partner Ned
Logan and a young man, the Schofield Kid.
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:Jerome: Alright, so I like it.
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:Yeah, it's nice
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:Chris: and tidy.
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:Jerome: So a little side note on
this former killer stuff that we're
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:going to talk about today along with
John wick while both characters try
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:to tell themselves and the audience.
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:Throughout the whole film pretty much that
they're not back quote unquote, you know,
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:right, right, right Well into their into
their old world world of killing They both
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:and they both seemingly got out because
of a woman I don't know if you notice
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:that they're both like both in both films.
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:Oh a good woman came along Yeah,
and straighten these guys out And
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:gave him good lives and of course,
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:Chris: what Clint Eastwood say,
show me the error of my ways.
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:Yeah, yeah, he uses,
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:Jerome: he uses wickedness a lot.
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:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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:My days, my days of wickedness.
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:And and of course both wives pass on.
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:So they're now left with
themselves pretty much.
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:And I thought it was interesting
that we're going to get to John Wick,
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:but really only William Money kind
of goes back to his normal life.
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:Without ruining the ending of
John Wick, you do know it has
377
:three sequels, so you can guess.
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:Chris: Before the end of John
Wick, the one we're talking about
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:he announces that, yes, I'm back.
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:Jerome: Yeah, so I mean, yeah, so
even if you hadn't seen the movie
381
:and you didn't want me to ruin
it, there's four John Wick movies.
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:So, you know, they don't all
take place in the same day.
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:But alright.
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:Okay, we have the beats.
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:Opening image, the sun is setting in
the distance, a silhouette of William
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:Money burying his wife with an on
screen crawl setting up who Will is
387
:and that his wife has recently died.
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:Inciting incident, the four point push
starts pretty quickly in this movie,
389
:two minutes in as a matter of fact,
on a rainy night in a small town, a
390
:fictitious small town of Big Whiskey,
Wyoming, a couple of cowboys rough
391
:up and cut up a prostitute after she
laughed at the size of his penis.
392
:This not only introduces the prostitute
girls, or I should just say prostitutes
393
:Strawberry Alice, Delilah, Kate,
Faith, Silky, and Little Sue, but
394
:also saloon owner Skinny, the cowboys
Quick Mike and Davey, and ultimately
395
:the town sheriff Little Bill Daggett.
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:So there's a lot of setup in
this first inciting incident.
397
:And it's just a few minutes
in not just the actions, but
398
:the characters themselves.
399
:And so we're going to do a little, we're
going to do a little exercise here.
400
:One for you beginning writers.
401
:This is a good exercise for you.
402
:I call it late to the movies.
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:Okay.
404
:For you beginning writers, if someone
is going to go see your movie and
405
:they're running late and they had
to stop for popcorn and a Coke and
406
:they didn't get into their seat
until 10 minutes into the movie, ask
407
:yourself, did they miss any setup?
408
:Okay.
409
:If the answer is no, they didn't miss
anything, then, for a beginning writer,
410
:you're going to want to go back to that
early first ten pages of your first
411
:act and tighten the shit out of it.
412
:Put some setup in there.
413
:Don't make it so boring.
414
:If the answer is yes, they would miss
a lot, then you're on the right track.
415
:And if
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:Chris: not, then you might
have lost a few people.
417
:They might've walked out.
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:Jerome: Yeah, this is, and
this is one of those movies.
419
:If you walk in 10 minutes late
to unforgiven, man, you fucking
420
:missed a lot because they cram
a lot into the first 10 minutes.
421
:Okay.
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:So, and then the next morning
is a little bit of setup here.
423
:The girls get together and they
come up with a thousand dollar
424
:bounty for revenge on the cowboys.
425
:Because little Bill, the sheriff, comes
and doesn't really punish them at all.
426
:He fines them a couple of horses each.
427
:Okay.
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:Theme stated.
429
:Real intro to William Money Now.
430
:A father and hog farmer.
431
:Also intro to Pete Sotho's
nephew, the Schofield kid.
432
:Eight minutes in, the kid says to Will,
You don't look like no rootin tootin son
433
:of a bitch and cold blooded assassin.
434
:And this is going to be the running
theme throughout the entire film.
435
:Not just with Will adjusting to his
post assassin life, but with all the
436
:characters and the thematic element, and
we're going to talk about this a lot,
437
:Myth versus reality, that's the theme.
438
:The stories told versus
what really happened.
439
:There are 13 different instances of this,
and I'm gonna number them off as we go.
440
:That's the first one.
441
:For Will, it is his personal theme.
442
:Will he be the old killer he used to be?
443
:That's the, that's the, the
emotional tug of war he's going
444
:to struggle with the whole movie.
445
:And, and, there is a terrifyingly
sad reality to his spiritual goal
446
:that we're going to get to, we're
going to come across at the end.
447
:Catalyst, another myth versus
reality happens in the next scene,
448
:the very next scene, when they're
having coffee inside Will's place.
449
:And the kid tells the story
of what happened to Delilah
450
:at the hands of the cowboys.
451
:But his version is embellished
over what really happened, right?
452
:He cut off her teats, they cut
her face off, like, I mean,
453
:the story just keeps Yeah,
454
:Chris: every time the story gets
told it gets worse and worse.
455
:Jerome: It gets worse and worse.
456
:Chris: Cut her eyes out.
457
:Jerome: Yeah, yeah.
458
:Then he repeats that Will doesn't seem to
physically match the stories he's heard.
459
:And he says, quote, Uncle Pete says
you was the meanest goddamn son
460
:of a bitch alive on account that
you're as cold as the snow and you
461
:don't have no weak nerve nor fear.
462
:So again, this is all early in
the film, and it's setting up
463
:in the first 10 minutes that
something bad happened to a girl.
464
:And what seems to be an old broken down
hog farmer used to be the biggest badass.
465
:That walked North America Another element
to this myth versus reality in most cases
466
:the reality is nothing like the story
that's being told However in William
467
:money's case, we're gonna find throughout
the film that his reality was actually
468
:worse than the stories The stories
they tell about will money Are almost
469
:tame compared to what really happened.
470
:Yeah.
471
:And we're gonna get to that too.
472
:So in any case, that's
the catalyst moment.
473
:At the 11 minute mark is the kid
asking Will to join him on his job.
474
:Yeah.
475
:To take the two cowboys
that cut up Delilah.
476
:Debate begins at the 13 minute mark.
477
:We see the debate.
478
:Will is, you know, His continued
failures as a hog farmer.
479
:I think they show him falling down twice
trying to, you know, separate these hogs.
480
:At one point he stands at the fence
and he watches the school field
481
:kid right off in the distance.
482
:This is what Blake Snyder would
call the stasis equals death.
483
:You know, if he stays in this place,
he's going to die just like that.
484
:An old broken down hog farmer.
485
:he doesn't seem very prosperous.
486
:The kid even says that.
487
:You don't seem very prosperous.
488
:He's not.
489
:He needs this money.
490
:You know, he could really use the money.
491
:Chris: by comparison John Wick
just comes out of retirement.
492
:He's ready to go, right?
493
:By comparison, there's been some
time that has passed since since Bill
494
:Money had been an active, you know,
assassin or whatever he, whatever,
495
:hit, hit man, whatever he had done.
496
:He can't even ride a horse.
497
:Jerome: Yeah, I, I like that you
brought that up because it is important.
498
:They do allude that about
a decade has gone by and
499
:Chris: he's kind of in his later years.
500
:Jerome: John Wick, like maybe
three or four years have gone by.
501
:That's it.
502
:Like three, maybe, you know what I mean?
503
:Shit.
504
:That's nothing really.
505
:Right.
506
:You know?
507
:But anyway, yeah.
508
:And, and, and that's the other thing.
509
:I didn't write it down in the notes, but
I did like when I was writing my pen notes
510
:and I was writing it in pen, I wrote age.
511
:Real small and circled it
every time they showed a moment
512
:where he was showing his age.
513
:He falls twice with the hogs.
514
:He falls off the horse
at least five times.
515
:In fact, every time he tries to get
on the horse in this movie, he falls.
516
:Like, I mean, he just, I
mean, they just constantly are
517
:showing that he's an old man.
518
:Okay.
519
:So then next scene to
see if he still has it.
520
:He does some practice shooting to
find that he probably has gotten old.
521
:Cause he can't even hit a goddamn
coffee can with his revolver.
522
:Now here's the funny thing.
523
:There's a rule of three here.
524
:We've talked about it in previous
podcasts, the rule of three.
525
:And this one is going to be Senator
on whether or not he is back.
526
:Okay.
527
:This is stage one, firing a gun
for the first time in a decade.
528
:The fact that he even finds his
gun, he was looking for it and
529
:he finds it and he's going to go
outside and practice shooting.
530
:That's the first stage of, is he back?
531
:Okay.
532
:There's going to be two
more key ones later.
533
:Chris: Yeah.
534
:Okay.
535
:Isn't he right?
536
:Jerome: Is he or isn't he?
537
:So break into two.
538
:The final stage in the four point
push by the way, there is a little
539
:comedic moment with that, by the way,
he misses every shot with the handgun.
540
:And instead of, Oh, geez, maybe
I should reload and try again.
541
:He's so pissed that he goes back
into his house and grabs a shotgun
542
:and he comes out and annihilates
the coffee can with a shotgun.
543
:And the little girl, the daughter,
says to the older son, Oh, he's
544
:got two kids by the way, if I
didn't, if I buried that lead.
545
:He's got two little kids now,
and the little girl says to the
546
:brother, Did Paw used to kill folks?
547
:Or maybe she says shoot.
548
:I don't know, maybe she says,
Did Paul used to shoot folks?
549
:I don't know.
550
:Um, But he's so mad at the goddamn coffee
can that he comes out with his shotgun.
551
:Alright, break into two.
552
:The final stage of the four point push is
the decision to jump into the second act.
553
:Chris: Yeah.
554
:Jerome: Now it's usually a strong beat.
555
:Something happens that is actionable.
556
:It's intense, and we can clearly see,
and we say to ourselves, that's it.
557
:We're now in act two.
558
:This one's interesting.
559
:It doesn't really have one of those.
560
:In fact, the break into two and the break
into three are more mental decisions
561
:for money, you know, for William Money.
562
:He doesn't really like shoot
somebody and be like, now I'm back.
563
:You know what I mean?
564
:Like it's, it's like, it's just
something that's going on in his head.
565
:We assume he's made the decision
the morning that he's shaving.
566
:Right.
567
:Like that's when you get the idea that,
yeah, he's decided he's going to do this.
568
:But there wasn't anything really
actionable that made us know that
569
:we just sort of knew it, you know?
570
:So, and that is roughly at the 18 minute
mark is when he makes that decision.
571
:We know that because like I
said, he's shaving, he's getting
572
:dressed, and he takes flowers
out to his dead wife's grave.
573
:Chris: I love this scene
when he leaves his kids.
574
:Jesse was watching it with
me and she's like, Oh my God.
575
:Cause how old are these kids?
576
:Jerome: The kid can't be more
than what, 11, 12 years old.
577
:Chris: Oh, the oldest kid.
578
:Yeah.
579
:And then there's the younger one.
580
:Jerome: The little girl's
gotta be six or seven.
581
:Chris: If you get hungry,
kill a chicken or something.
582
:Jerome: I mean, think about how fucking,
how times were different back then.
583
:He's just like, you know, I'll
have a Ned's, you know, Indian
584
:wife Sally Two Trees, I'll have her
look in on you every now and again.
585
:If you get hungry, kill a chicken.
586
:And, and keep those damn hogs
separated, you know what I mean?
587
:Like, what the fuck?
588
:And, and the son, at no point is the
son like, Dad, you're leaving us?
589
:He's just like, alright, I got it, I
got the, I got the ranch from here.
590
:Like, you were a man at
twelve back in those days.
591
:In this case, 11, 11 years old,
and you're a man of the house.
592
:And I always thought it was funny to
completely unrelated, but I always liked
593
:the line in interview with the vampire,
when Brad Pitt is telling his story to
594
:oddly enough, Christian Slater already
mentioned, we've mentioned him twice on an
595
:episode that has nothing to do with him.
596
:Right.
597
:He tells him he, he was telling
the story of in the:
598
:first got bit and became a vampire.
599
:He says, he goes.
600
:I was 17 or 18 years old, but
I was times were different.
601
:I was a man at that age.
602
:I already had my own plantation,
you know what I mean?
603
:Like So I always liked that line
about how times have changed.
604
:And then you watch this movie and
you're like, No, you're a man at eleven.
605
:Not seventeen.
606
:You're a man at eleven.
607
:Alright, fun and games.
608
:Now that we're in act two, we start
with Skinny finding out about the
609
:bounty, slapping around Alice and
going to little Bill to tell him.
610
:Myth versus reality number three.
611
:When skinny approaches Bill's
house, he says, quote, I heard
612
:you did the roof yourself to that
or rather offended bill replies.
613
:I practically built the whole damn
thing myself, which is another example
614
:of the theme story moves around
town, but you know, it's hardly true.
615
:And this is just another, just again,
a seemingly meaningless throwaway line
616
:of dialogue actually is serving and
supporting the theme of the movie.
617
:There's no fat to trim in this script.
618
:Every word counts.
619
:And that's why it's one of,
it's an amazing screenplay.
620
:Um, On his journey, roughly
around the 28 minute mark.
621
:Usually the B story enters
around 30 minutes in.
622
:Will stops at the ranch of his old
friend, Ned Logan and his wife, Sally,
623
:two trees and recruits him to join
him on the job myth versus reality.
624
:Number four, as Will relays the
story of what happened to Delilah
625
:to Ned, he's embellishing even more.
626
:Now.
627
:What does he say when no, I think he
says is when her eyes got cut out.
628
:So first first the kid says
he they cut off her teats And
629
:now he's like cut her teats.
630
:They cut her eyes out.
631
:Like I mean, it's getting even worse now
632
:Chris: I love like with every gruesome
detail the the the expression on
633
:Clint Eastwood's face Where he
squints and he's like, Oh hell.
634
:Jerome: Yeah, he got, you can almost
hear him go, Jesus, you know what I mean?
635
:Like every time.
636
:So Ned serves as the B story
because he will ultimately drive
637
:will to his spiritual goal.
638
:Ned agrees to join him and they set off
you know, after their tangible goal, which
639
:is to find the cowboys who cut up Delilah.
640
:Okay, more fun and games.
641
:Intro to English Bob and his biographer W.
642
:W.
643
:Beauchamp.
644
:By the way, I love every moment
that Richard Harris is on screen.
645
:Absolutely.
646
:I fucking love him in this movie.
647
:And he's only got like four scenes.
648
:Chris: Yeah.
649
:Jerome: But he is so fun
in this movie to watch.
650
:They're on a train to Wyoming.
651
:Myth versus reality number five.
652
:The folks on the train have heard
of English Bob and another example
653
:of how his reputation precedes him
as he challenged them to pheasant
654
:shooting and he wins easily.
655
:Here's an interesting part.
656
:Remember when I said the
stories about William Money?
657
:The stories don't match reality,
that the reality is actually worse?
658
:This is another one of those.
659
:They only know the story of
English Bob because he shoots
660
:Chinamen off the railroads.
661
:But when he gets out there to shoot
pheasants, he hits, what, eight?
662
:Eight out of ten?
663
:Flying birds?
664
:With a handgun?
665
:So again, they are not only corrected
on their, on their thoughts about
666
:English Bob, they're more impressed.
667
:because it was a contest and the only
guy what hit one, he hit one bird.
668
:So, yeah.
669
:Where did I lost my place here?
670
:Okay starting to get the idea that when
it's a cold blooded killer like English
671
:Bob and William Money, the realities are
usually accurate or worse than the myths.
672
:After they arrive in Big
Whiskey, he has a comical, though
673
:timely, line in a barbershop.
674
:Where he's talking about how nobody
would be able to assassinate a
675
:king or queen because you would
stand in awe in their presence.
676
:And then he says as he's leaving,
smiling, now a president, well, I
677
:mean, why not shoot a president?
678
:Now in and of itself, it's a funny line.
679
:I realized.
680
:It's not that funny right now.
681
:So when I first saw it I was watching
that scene and that line came up I
682
:remembered the line and laughed and
then I was like Oh, I don't know if we
683
:can put that in a podcast Cause it's
a little negatively timely but Still,
684
:it was a funny line, just the way he
delivers it, you know what I mean?
685
:Yeah, it was funny.
686
:Why not?
687
:Why not shoot a president?
688
:Myth versus reality, number
six, seven, and eight!
689
:All come in back to back scenes
as the deputies are gearing up to
690
:take on English Bob and the stories
about how tough little Bill is, or
691
:was, and whether or not he's afraid.
692
:of somebody like English Bob come up.
693
:When they're face to face
with little Bill, Bob tells
694
:him he's heard that he died.
695
:Well, first of all, let
me, I'm jumping ahead.
696
:So, the myth vs.
697
:reality number six.
698
:The first part is Clyde comes in, one
armed Clyde, which is another funny
699
:scene because he wants to reload his
own gun, and the guy that loaded it for
700
:him is like, Clyde, what are you doing?
701
:I already loaded that!
702
:Then he's like, Christ, you got
three guns and only one arm!
703
:So um, anyway, so in that scene, Clyde
tells all these guys are like, oh, I
704
:don't know if little bill can handle it.
705
:He's never gone against
guys like this before.
706
:Did he seem scared?
707
:And Clyde's like, guys, he
worked those old towns in Kansas.
708
:You know what I mean?
709
:Like he starts telling little
bill's story, you know?
710
:So And then they go to face little
English Bob by the way, I'm going to trip
711
:over some of my words because Bill and
Bob and Will are the three main guys.
712
:Will, Bill and Bob are
the three main guys.
713
:So forgive me if I fucked
this up a little bit.
714
:So when they get face to face
with a little Bill, Bob tells him.
715
:English Bob tells him, I heard that you
died and you can kind of tell him the
716
:way he delivers the line that he really
meant to say hoped because he does
717
:seem worried when he sees little bill.
718
:He was not afraid of these deputies
at all, but when he comes out of that
719
:barbershop and he sees a little bill, he
says to himself, I don't know if you could
720
:tell, cause he says it under his breath.
721
:He goes shit and fried eggs.
722
:And WWE boat champ just sort of looks at
him like, what, like, what's the big deal?
723
:Yeah.
724
:So anyway, to which Bill
replies, I heard that one myself.
725
:So another example, again, these
are just meaningless throwaway
726
:lines, but they're supporting that
theme about how stories travel.
727
:Yeah.
728
:Right.
729
:Then biographer WW Bo champ, here's
the name, little Bill Daggett,
730
:and he's obviously impressed.
731
:Even he has heard of him
and likely his reputation.
732
:Again, the script is literally With
these, these stories, these reputations,
733
:these fables, this is about 39 minutes
in, and we've already talked about
734
:eight instances where stories traveled
to areas, you know what I mean?
735
:And people built up their own myths
in their mind based on those stories.
736
:Another funny setup of dialogue
is when Little Bill hears that W.
737
:W.
738
:is a writer.
739
:The first thing he says
is, letters and such?
740
:Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
No, wait, the reason I'm laughing
741
:is this is gonna pay off at the end.
742
:Because this is a setup and it
gets paid off at the end, but The
743
:funny thing about it is, why would
that be the first thing you ask?
744
:When somebody's a writer,
you say, letters and such?
745
:That would be like today if I
told somebody I was a writer and
746
:they're like, Oh, like emails?
747
:Like, no!
748
:You know what I mean?
749
:Alright, so anyway, it doesn't end
well for English Bob in this scene,
750
:as Bill beats the shit out of him, and
then they arrest him at the end of it.
751
:Back to Ned and Will.
752
:They meet up with the Schofield kid
and discover he can't see for shit.
753
:There's a lot of comedic
moments there as well.
754
:Rejoin.
755
:Now we go back to Bill.
756
:He's now in the jail
house with WW and Bob.
757
:He's reading the book.
758
:The biographer wrote called the Duke
of death which is another, yeah, which
759
:is another funny moment where he keeps
fucking up the name, calling it the
760
:duck of death myth versus reality.
761
:Example number nine, since the book is
mostly BS uh, perhaps you know, Kind of
762
:shit is how these stories got started,
is because of books like this, right?
763
:Immediately followed by Myth vs.
764
:Reality number 10, where he tells
the story of Two Gun Corky Corcoran.
765
:And why he was really named Two Gun Corky.
766
:And, you know, the stories, it
was because he carried two guns.
767
:Well, it wasn't.
768
:He carried one gun, but had a huge dick.
769
:That's why he was called Two Gun Corker.
770
:Two Two Gun Corky.
771
:Again, myth versus reality.
772
:Back to will Ned and the kid at
the campfire myth versus reality.
773
:Number 11, where the kid lies his
ass off about how many people he
774
:killed, just to sound impressive
the next day while riding.
775
:Okay.
776
:So the kid does ask him I heard
you killed those two, you killed
777
:two County deputies or something.
778
:The next day here's myth versus reality.
779
:Number 12, they're riding along.
780
:And Ned says to to will.
781
:Hey, you know that story
the kid told last night?
782
:It wasn't two.
783
:Didn't you kill three deputies
or something like that?
784
:And he's like, I don't remember.
785
:I was drunk.
786
:But again, this is a perfect
example of how even the story
787
:Chris: changes.
788
:Yeah.
789
:Jerome: But not only that, the
reality was worse than the story.
790
:Chris: Yeah.
791
:Jerome: The story was that
he killed two officers.
792
:He killed three.
793
:You know what I mean?
794
:All right.
795
:So again, everybody else's stories are
getting embellished while his stories are
796
:actually getting diminished from reality.
797
:Okay, so we've hit 12 examples
of myth versus reality before
798
:we even hit the damn midpoint.
799
:Okay?
800
:There's only gonna be one more.
801
:Remember I said there's 13.
802
:There's gonna be one
more, but it comes later.
803
:Alright, back at the jailhouse now.
804
:Bill gives W.
805
:W.
806
:the chance to shoot him
and take off with Bob.
807
:It doesn't go the way English Bob hoped.
808
:But why this is important is he basically
explains the whole ending of the film.
809
:It's pure foreshadowing.
810
:It's clever because the fear I'm sure the
filmmakers might have had and the writer
811
:himself was that the audience isn't going
to buy the ending for the whole movie.
812
:We've set up this broken down old
man and he's going to walk into a
813
:room filled with, you know, people
with guns and take everybody out.
814
:The reason it works is because of this
scene, because a little bill takes the
815
:time to explain if you're cool headed.
816
:It doesn't matter how fast you are.
817
:Everybody else that is rushing and they're
nervous and they're scared are gonna
818
:take their guns out and fire wildly and
they're gonna miss most of the time.
819
:If you keep your head and you
calmly fire your weapon, you'll
820
:hit your target every time.
821
:He basically gives foreshadowing
to how the movie ends.
822
:Because everybody else will
be panicking and he won't.
823
:Okay, second sign Will is coming back.
824
:Remember the first sign was that
he was doing target practice.
825
:Second sign of him coming back
to his old self, when sick and
826
:tired, he curses at the horse.
827
:Remember, he said earlier that
his wife cured him of cursing
828
:and drinking and wickedness.
829
:Well, at this point, when he's,
yeah, he's starting to slip back.
830
:Again, three points here.
831
:So, you know.
832
:What was the part?
833
:Oh, yeah.
834
:So it's raining and he's sick and he's
tired and he falls off the horse again.
835
:And he says, he calls the horse something
like a no good pig fucker or something.
836
:Like, it's like, So, and I'm, well, I'm
watching it and I had to write it down.
837
:I was like, oh my God, that's
the first time he's cursed.
838
:It's the first time he's
cursed yet because he said
839
:his wife cured him of that.
840
:So that's the second point.
841
:He does immediately apologize, though.
842
:Like, right after he gets on
the horse, he's all, I'm sorry.
843
:But the words flew out of his mouth,
probably like they did in the old days.
844
:Alright, so that was part
two of the Rule of Three.
845
:Alright, Bob is sent out of
town as Will is arriving.
846
:There's a moment where they're at
the train, you know, where they're
847
:waiting for the train to pass.
848
:And you can see English Bob on the train.
849
:As they're arriving in Big Whiskey.
850
:W.
851
:W.
852
:Beauchamp decides to
stay with Little Bill.
853
:His stories are better.
854
:The protagonist makes it to Greeley's
to meet with Strawberry Alice.
855
:Will is sick, but he refuses to drink.
856
:And I tell people this all the time.
857
:Back in the 1800s, they
didn't have NyQuil.
858
:So you drank whiskey if
you had the fever, right?
859
:If you had a fever, you drank
whiskey because it warmed your
860
:esophagus and made you sweat.
861
:It made you sweat out the fever.
862
:He refuses to drink because his wife,
dead wife Claudia, cured him of drinking.
863
:So he refuses.
864
:That only makes him sicker.
865
:He's just sitting there, soaking
wet from the rain, getting sick.
866
:Alright, midpoint scene.
867
:About an hour and twelve minutes into a
two hour ten minute film, Bill meets Will
868
:for the first time, and he beats the shit
out of him just like he did English Bob.
869
:His two friends escape and collect him
outside and they begin his recovery.
870
:This is a tangible goal.
871
:They somewhat achieved the tangible goal.
872
:They at least found the
place and met with Alice.
873
:I want you to realize
why this is important.
874
:No, they didn't kill the cowboys, but
with all the stories set up about these
875
:BS stories going around, it's very
likely they could have gotten there to
876
:find out there was no cut prostitute.
877
:There wasn't even a bounty.
878
:You know what I mean?
879
:Like, that could have just
been a story they heard.
880
:They don't have the internet.
881
:They can't fact check this shit.
882
:So they just rode for a week and a half,
or however long it took to get there.
883
:They could have got there and then found
out, oh, it was another embellished story.
884
:Right.
885
:But they don't.
886
:They get there, they find
Greeley's, they find Strawberry
887
:Alice, they find that it's true.
888
:This is Delilah and we're gonna
offer money like they realize.
889
:So in a sense, that is achieving
part of your tangible goal.
890
:They get there and they know
what they got to do, right?
891
:We talked about how the midpoint is
usually the false victory, right?
892
:It's a false victory.
893
:And then the second half of the
movie, everything goes to shit.
894
:That all is lost is usually the
opposite of the false victory, right?
895
:It's a false defeat.
896
:Sometimes they're swapped.
897
:Whichever one your midpoint scene
is, the all is lost is the opposite.
898
:So if your midpoint is a false victory,
then your all is lost is a false defeat.
899
:They swap in this one.
900
:And we talked about it before.
901
:It doesn't happen often, right?
902
:But we talked about it in the Fablemans.
903
:We felt that that was a
swap to the midpoint here, I
904
:believe is not a false victory.
905
:It's a false defeat.
906
:And the defeat is that little bill
seemingly thwarts their plans by
907
:beating the shit out of them, beating
bill within an inch of his life.
908
:And if that didn't do it, the
fever might kill him, right?
909
:He might have died from the fever.
910
:He's in a bad state, right?
911
:He's close to death.
912
:He's bleeding.
913
:He's got to get stitched up.
914
:But things are about to turn around.
915
:So I call that a false defeat.
916
:Bad guys closing in sometime passes
about three days actually, where Ned
917
:and the kid are scouting the Cowboys.
918
:They're nursing will back to health.
919
:They're boning the prostitutes.
920
:You know, like I said,
it's been three days.
921
:The final myth versus reality moment.
922
:Number 13 happens when Will's fever breaks
and he wakes up and he sees Delilah.
923
:He sees that she only has
a few scars on her face.
924
:The stories were horrendous.
925
:But when he sees her, he's like,
you just only have a few scars.
926
:You know?
927
:It kind of reminded me, watching it
again, again I've seen this movie
928
:hundreds of times, but when I watched
it this time, as a little side
929
:note, it reminded me of there's this
scene, you're Thrones guy, are you?
930
:Chris: No, never got into it.
931
:Jerome: Is Jesse, is Jesse at all?
932
:Chris: No, no.
933
:Jerome: So there's a scene where
Tyrion, who's played by Peter
934
:Dinklage, there's this story that
a guy tells him, like, you're the
935
:biggest disappointment I've ever heard.
936
:And that sounds offensive.
937
:But then the guy goes into the story.
938
:He's like, cause when I was
a kid, I came to see you.
939
:You were just been born.
940
:You were a baby.
941
:And we all heard these stories about how
you had a tail and claws and a red eye.
942
:And your head was twice the size of your
body and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
943
:And he goes, and then when we
got there, we looked at you.
944
:And.
945
:There was no tail.
946
:There was no claws.
947
:No red eye.
948
:He goes, your head was a tad large
and your arms and legs were tad small.
949
:But he says, he's talking
to, he's talking to him.
950
:He's telling this and he said, I told
your sister, that's not a monster.
951
:That's just a baby.
952
:You know what I mean?
953
:So it's like, it reminded me of that when
he wakes up and he sees the Lila and all
954
:of a sudden he's like, she's just a girl.
955
:She's just a girl.
956
:She's got some scars on her face.
957
:That's it.
958
:So.
959
:That is the final myth versus
reality moment number 13.
960
:When they find the cowboys, the
young Davey is the first to go.
961
:Unfortunately, Ned, I say, unfortunately,
cause Davey really seems like a nice kid.
962
:He seems very like, like he really
didn't do any of the cutting.
963
:And he seems really remorseful the
whole movie about what happened.
964
:And so unfortunately he's the first to go.
965
:But Ned falters when it matters the most
and Will has to step in to do the killing.
966
:Will, Little Bill finds out about this.
967
:Ned quits and heads south.
968
:He couldn't take it anymore.
969
:The Barty boys catch up with
him and take him prisoner.
970
:Will and the kid don't know about any
of this and they continue scouting
971
:for the second cowboy, Quick Mike.
972
:They kill him.
973
:You realize I'm rushing through
the whole second act here because
974
:these are just like points.
975
:These are just points that happen.
976
:They kill him, specifically the kid
kills him while he's sitting in the
977
:shitter, and they make their escape.
978
:And they're waiting at their rendezvous
point as little little Sue approaches
979
:by horseback with their money.
980
:So this is an hour and 45 minutes
in, and the kid is breaking down.
981
:This is the, he admits this is
the first time he's ever killed
982
:anybody and he can't handle it.
983
:Right.
984
:And again, this is happening mere.
985
:after Ned couldn't
handle killing somebody.
986
:Right.
987
:Right?
988
:Like, these two guys, one at the end
of his career, one at the beginning
989
:of his career as supposed killers, and
they both buckle under the pressure.
990
:That's gonna be important
when it comes to Will, right?
991
:But anyway, there's a
line of dialogue here.
992
:This is probably one of the
most famous scenes of the movie.
993
:While they're waiting for little
Sue to approach them on horseback.
994
:I'm just going to read the dialogue.
995
:The kid, it don't seem real how he
ain't never going to breathe again.
996
:Never how he's dead.
997
:And the other one too, all on account
of pulling a trigger will, it's
998
:a hell of a thing, killing a man.
999
:You take away all he's got and all
he's ever going to have the kid.
:
00:43:38,414 --> 00:43:38,694
Yeah.
:
00:43:38,764 --> 00:43:39,974
Well, I guess they had it coming.
:
00:43:40,254 --> 00:43:42,014
Will we all have it coming kid.
:
00:43:43,174 --> 00:43:46,704
That was the clip they showed at the
Oscars when this movie was presented as
:
00:43:46,704 --> 00:43:48,124
one of the nominees for best picture.
:
00:43:48,504 --> 00:43:49,624
Okay, all is lost.
:
00:43:49,624 --> 00:43:51,294
One hour, 50 minutes in.
:
00:43:51,384 --> 00:43:55,594
Little Sue delivers the money and
the bad news about Ned, who was
:
00:43:55,604 --> 00:43:57,004
beaten to death by Little Bill.
:
00:43:57,014 --> 00:44:02,714
Now, again, I, I actually, before,
before we hear about Ned, it's a
:
00:44:02,724 --> 00:44:07,524
false it's a false It's not a false
defeat, as all is lost normally is.
:
00:44:07,524 --> 00:44:09,984
It's opposite of the midpoint,
so it's a false victory.
:
00:44:10,344 --> 00:44:13,874
The reason why it's a false
victory is, they got their money.
:
00:44:13,964 --> 00:44:15,264
They killed the cowboys.
:
00:44:15,364 --> 00:44:16,424
They got their money.
:
00:44:16,524 --> 00:44:19,034
They're getting ready to get
on their horses and head south.
:
00:44:19,544 --> 00:44:20,494
They're gonna go home.
:
00:44:20,584 --> 00:44:21,244
They won.
:
00:44:21,674 --> 00:44:27,394
But it's a false victory because,
they find out, Ned was killed.
:
00:44:27,894 --> 00:44:32,884
When Will finds out that Ned was killed
by Little Bill, Switch is flipped.
:
00:44:33,154 --> 00:44:35,764
Yeah, he's back now, right?
:
00:44:36,174 --> 00:44:39,484
Remember I said the rule
of three, the three points.
:
00:44:39,494 --> 00:44:41,574
The first one was target practice.
:
00:44:41,724 --> 00:44:43,454
The second one was he cursed.
:
00:44:43,754 --> 00:44:44,094
Guess what?
:
00:44:44,094 --> 00:44:48,699
The third one is He grabs the bottle
of whiskey from the Schofield kit
:
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,419
and starts, At that moment you
know, you're in the theater like, Oh
:
00:44:52,419 --> 00:44:54,889
fuck, shit's about to go down now!
:
00:44:55,219 --> 00:44:56,499
Dude's drinking again!
:
00:44:56,589 --> 00:44:59,209
Like at that moment you're like,
Yeah cause they hyped it up
:
00:44:59,219 --> 00:44:59,899
Chris: perfectly.
:
00:45:00,109 --> 00:45:00,829
Jerome: Right, right!
:
00:45:00,869 --> 00:45:03,559
And you're sitting there thinking,
I wouldn't trade places, I wouldn't
:
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,259
trade places with Little Bill right
now for all the whiskey in Ireland.
:
00:45:06,499 --> 00:45:09,179
Like, that's fucking,
you know it's on now.
:
00:45:09,179 --> 00:45:10,159
It's fucking on.
:
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:10,799
I don't know.
:
00:45:11,169 --> 00:45:13,739
And that kind of closes out
the whole myth versus reality.
:
00:45:13,779 --> 00:45:14,899
Oh, oh, wait, no.
:
00:45:15,359 --> 00:45:16,429
That's that he is back.
:
00:45:16,439 --> 00:45:19,109
What closes out the misperth
myth versus reality?
:
00:45:19,409 --> 00:45:22,949
Little Sue starts rambling off all
this other shit that he had done
:
00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:24,739
that the kid didn't even know about.
:
00:45:24,739 --> 00:45:25,609
Chris: While he's drinking.
:
00:45:25,819 --> 00:45:27,679
While he's drinking like
more and we're gonna get
:
00:45:27,849 --> 00:45:29,329
Jerome: there's there's
more on that later.
:
00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:30,269
I'm gonna get to that later.
:
00:45:30,299 --> 00:45:32,289
Chris: It made that whole scene so great.
:
00:45:32,749 --> 00:45:33,609
Jerome: Oh my god.
:
00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:35,289
It's the best scene of the whole movie.
:
00:45:35,789 --> 00:45:37,109
Okay, Dark Knight of the Soul.
:
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:40,139
As discussed in many other episodes,
the Dark Knight of the Soul, it
:
00:45:40,139 --> 00:45:43,079
could be two seconds, it could be
two minutes, it could be two scenes.
:
00:45:43,339 --> 00:45:47,709
It's the bridge from where the
protagonist learns the bad news and then
:
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,749
makes the decision to jump into Act 3.
:
00:45:50,169 --> 00:45:51,219
This is another quick one.
:
00:45:51,219 --> 00:45:53,899
We talked about the one in Jaws
only lasted a few seconds too.
:
00:45:54,769 --> 00:45:55,829
This one's a quick one too.
:
00:45:56,339 --> 00:45:59,389
You could argue him reaching for the
bottle of whiskey and starting to
:
00:45:59,389 --> 00:46:01,279
drink is his dark night of the soul.
:
00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:03,769
Like, that could have been
that moment of debate.
:
00:46:04,009 --> 00:46:06,749
Because right then he's
thinking, what am I gonna do?
:
00:46:07,839 --> 00:46:11,529
And you know that like, once he starts
drinking, that decision is made.
:
00:46:11,939 --> 00:46:12,999
He knows what he's gonna do.
:
00:46:13,669 --> 00:46:14,799
Alright, break into three.
:
00:46:14,799 --> 00:46:17,789
As previously mentioned in the break
into two, there doesn't seem to be a
:
00:46:17,889 --> 00:46:23,819
big sort of plot point here you know,
that catapults them into act three, like
:
00:46:23,819 --> 00:46:25,369
you would see a big scene or anything.
:
00:46:25,369 --> 00:46:27,379
It's again, it's a more
of a mental decision.
:
00:46:27,899 --> 00:46:31,119
It's a, it's a mental and emotional
decision that, that that William
:
00:46:31,129 --> 00:46:33,249
money makes to jump into act three.
:
00:46:33,264 --> 00:46:35,944
So Well, the catalyst
:
00:46:36,684 --> 00:46:39,774
Chris: was his buddy being
killed and put on display.
:
00:46:40,344 --> 00:46:43,594
Jerome: Yeah, well, again, I was
gonna say, you could argue if
:
00:46:43,594 --> 00:46:45,014
there is a break in to 3 at all.
:
00:46:45,014 --> 00:46:46,914
But no, but see, he's
already made the decision.
:
00:46:46,964 --> 00:46:48,044
Yeah, he's already made the decision.
:
00:46:48,404 --> 00:46:52,954
Chris: But I guess, maybe, maybe it
was when he finally saw him on display.
:
00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:55,899
Jerome: I think he was already
there to kill everybody.
:
00:46:56,249 --> 00:46:57,779
I think that just pissed
him off even more.
:
00:46:58,779 --> 00:46:59,927
You know what I mean?
:
00:46:59,927 --> 00:47:03,069
So what my brother's alluding to, and
we're gonna get to that right now.
:
00:47:03,449 --> 00:47:04,709
The five point finale.
:
00:47:04,709 --> 00:47:05,359
Here we go.
:
00:47:05,379 --> 00:47:06,409
Gathering the team.
:
00:47:06,419 --> 00:47:08,109
Will gives instructions to the kid.
:
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:09,339
Take the money, head back.
:
00:47:09,499 --> 00:47:13,739
If I don't come back, give my share
and Ned's share to Sally Two Trees
:
00:47:13,749 --> 00:47:15,139
so that she can give it to my kids.
:
00:47:15,429 --> 00:47:16,529
And you can keep the rest.
:
00:47:16,979 --> 00:47:19,059
But if I do come back, I'll
see you in a couple of weeks.
:
00:47:19,459 --> 00:47:21,119
So that's him loading up the team.
:
00:47:21,129 --> 00:47:25,019
And there's a scene where he throws the
empty bottle of whiskey onto the ground.
:
00:47:25,269 --> 00:47:27,589
You know, now the bottle
of whiskey is gone.
:
00:47:27,889 --> 00:47:28,839
You know what that means?
:
00:47:28,929 --> 00:47:30,369
Shit's about to go down, right?
:
00:47:30,739 --> 00:47:36,449
He's, he rides himself to Greeley's with
zero fucks left to give at this point.
:
00:47:37,019 --> 00:47:38,059
Execution of the plan.
:
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:39,179
He establishes.
:
00:47:40,244 --> 00:47:41,984
He goes in, he walks right in.
:
00:47:41,984 --> 00:47:45,014
While everybody else in there
is armed, it's a posse that
:
00:47:45,014 --> 00:47:46,604
are going to look for him.
:
00:47:46,784 --> 00:47:46,874
Right.
:
00:47:46,874 --> 00:47:49,304
That's what they're, that's
what they're there for, is to
:
00:47:49,304 --> 00:47:51,194
posse up and to go look for him.
:
00:47:51,194 --> 00:47:54,344
And he walks in there and
says, who owns this shit hole,
:
00:47:57,374 --> 00:48:01,364
which is again one of my favorite
lines where you hear him cock his gun.
:
00:48:01,424 --> 00:48:01,664
Yeah.
:
00:48:01,664 --> 00:48:03,764
And the prostitutes are watching.
:
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:08,129
And all the gunmen are watching, and
the deputies, they all turn, and they
:
00:48:08,129 --> 00:48:11,579
see him stand with a gun, and the first
line he says is, Who owns this shithole?
:
00:48:11,609 --> 00:48:12,099
I love it.
:
00:48:12,509 --> 00:48:15,169
So he sees Skinny, Skinny
says, I own this establishment.
:
00:48:15,339 --> 00:48:17,919
Actually, first, nobody wants
to answer, and he points the
:
00:48:17,919 --> 00:48:19,739
gun at the one deputy, Fatty.
:
00:48:19,869 --> 00:48:22,249
That's, I'm not being mean,
that's literally his name.
:
00:48:22,649 --> 00:48:24,279
His name is Fatty, if
you look at the credits.
:
00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:27,169
He looks at him and he
goes, You fat man, speak up.
:
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,199
And that's when Skinny says,
I own this establishment.
:
00:48:31,749 --> 00:48:32,419
And then he shoots him.
:
00:48:33,409 --> 00:48:35,759
It just shoots an unarmed man.
:
00:48:36,049 --> 00:48:38,409
I have thoughts on this too, but we're
going to get to that in a second.
:
00:48:38,409 --> 00:48:40,119
I don't want to rush this
five point plan here.
:
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:42,029
So he kills Skinny.
:
00:48:42,579 --> 00:48:47,389
And again, he, the next, the plan
next is to kill Little Bill, right?
:
00:48:47,569 --> 00:48:50,659
Which, at this point, the room is,
again, it's filled with armed deputies
:
00:48:50,659 --> 00:48:53,949
and mercenaries, and they're all shell
shocked about what just happened.
:
00:48:54,229 --> 00:48:55,869
And they're all just
standing there, right?
:
00:48:55,899 --> 00:48:56,209
Chris: Right.
:
00:48:56,924 --> 00:49:00,004
Jerome: Will aims his gun at Bill
and still nobody's doing anything.
:
00:49:00,004 --> 00:49:02,144
They're all just standing there
like, Holy fuck, what's this?
:
00:49:02,144 --> 00:49:03,994
I've never seen this in real life before.
:
00:49:04,524 --> 00:49:06,364
High tower surprise, the gun jams.
:
00:49:06,584 --> 00:49:08,524
He was going to take out Bill right then.
:
00:49:08,554 --> 00:49:08,974
Right.
:
00:49:09,304 --> 00:49:10,264
And the gun jams.
:
00:49:10,984 --> 00:49:15,104
Now he's about to be in a real shootout
with Bill and everybody in the room.
:
00:49:15,954 --> 00:49:20,094
By the way, because the gun jammed,
he only has left a handgun, which we
:
00:49:20,094 --> 00:49:25,284
saw earlier in the movie, his poor
shooting with the handgun, right?
:
00:49:25,724 --> 00:49:26,994
Chris: But he was sober then.
:
00:49:27,874 --> 00:49:29,914
Jerome: And he couldn't, he
couldn't hit a coffee can, right?
:
00:49:29,914 --> 00:49:32,384
We're talking about two hours earlier, he
couldn't hit a coffee can, he was sober.
:
00:49:32,854 --> 00:49:33,814
Alright, dig down deep.
:
00:49:33,824 --> 00:49:36,504
Without much of a chance to think about
it, again, there's a lot of movies
:
00:49:36,504 --> 00:49:39,354
that dig down deep is also a thing
that could happen within seconds.
:
00:49:39,774 --> 00:49:43,419
Not having the luxury of time
to think about it, Will throws
:
00:49:43,419 --> 00:49:45,109
his shotgun right at Bill.
:
00:49:45,419 --> 00:49:48,359
That throws off his timing
and his rhythm, right?
:
00:49:48,359 --> 00:49:50,249
Because Bill was going to
reach for his handgun, but now
:
00:49:50,249 --> 00:49:51,389
he's got a gun flying at him.
:
00:49:51,389 --> 00:49:52,909
He's got to kind of get
out of the way of it.
:
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:56,739
It allows Will to pull out his gun.
:
00:49:56,959 --> 00:50:00,189
And while everybody in the place
is panicking and firing all over
:
00:50:00,189 --> 00:50:05,479
God's green earth, he's calmly
picking people off one at a time.
:
00:50:05,619 --> 00:50:05,939
Right.
:
00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:11,179
So, and that's a funny scene, too, where
they show, like Deputy Fatty and Deputy
:
00:50:11,219 --> 00:50:13,179
Andy are standing next to each other.
:
00:50:13,339 --> 00:50:15,539
They're firing and they're
hitting, like, the bar and the
:
00:50:15,539 --> 00:50:16,809
bottles that are on the bar.
:
00:50:16,869 --> 00:50:19,069
They're like, they're not
even coming close to the will.
:
00:50:19,839 --> 00:50:20,159
Right?
:
00:50:20,359 --> 00:50:21,699
And he's just one at a time.
:
00:50:21,699 --> 00:50:23,929
He gets, he gets little
Bill first in the gut.
:
00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:24,489
Boom.
:
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,739
And then he takes out, boom, boom, boom.
:
00:50:26,989 --> 00:50:28,509
Boom, he starts taking dudes out.
:
00:50:28,929 --> 00:50:31,849
After the initial killing is done,
execution of the new plan was that,
:
00:50:31,849 --> 00:50:34,869
by the way, but after, the plan's not
done yet because Bill's still alive.
:
00:50:34,929 --> 00:50:38,699
Not that he knows it yet, but he
suggests everyone else flee out the
:
00:50:38,709 --> 00:50:40,029
back if they don't want to get killed.
:
00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:41,549
And they all listen!
:
00:50:42,499 --> 00:50:45,579
A room filled with armed dudes and
they're all like Alright, you got it, sir.
:
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:47,019
And they all go out the back door.
:
00:50:47,459 --> 00:50:48,639
Get the fuck out of there.
:
00:50:48,989 --> 00:50:51,339
Nobody wants anything to
do with him at this point.
:
00:50:52,274 --> 00:50:53,584
Then Will meets W.
:
00:50:53,584 --> 00:50:53,864
W.
:
00:50:53,864 --> 00:50:57,404
Beauchamp, the biography,
the biographer, by the way.
:
00:50:58,834 --> 00:51:01,004
And that's when he realizes
Bill is still alive.
:
00:51:01,404 --> 00:51:04,664
At this point, he kills him at point
blank range with a Spencer rifle.
:
00:51:04,964 --> 00:51:06,224
There is a funny moment there.
:
00:51:06,374 --> 00:51:09,414
I, when I thought was going to
happen in theater, didn't happen.
:
00:51:09,414 --> 00:51:13,894
And this could have been Clint Eastwood's
little dig on the myth versus reality.
:
00:51:13,894 --> 00:51:16,084
What you think is going to
happen versus what does happen.
:
00:51:16,824 --> 00:51:19,594
He sees biographer is all, I'm not armed.
:
00:51:19,594 --> 00:51:20,154
I'm not armed.
:
00:51:20,164 --> 00:51:21,884
The first thing he says
is pick up that rifle.
:
00:51:23,114 --> 00:51:26,904
And I'm like, Oh man, he's going to
pick up that rifle and he's going
:
00:51:26,904 --> 00:51:32,304
to shoot him just so he can say he
didn't shoot another unarmed guy, but
:
00:51:32,304 --> 00:51:35,384
he doesn't, he doesn't, he picks up
the rifle and he just tells him, you
:
00:51:35,384 --> 00:51:36,894
know, give it to me so I can reload it.
:
00:51:37,094 --> 00:51:37,384
Yeah.
:
00:51:37,464 --> 00:51:39,924
And then, you know, more
of the myth versus reality.
:
00:51:40,274 --> 00:51:41,574
But this is all reality.
:
00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:41,604
Yeah.
:
00:51:42,534 --> 00:51:42,804
W.
:
00:51:42,804 --> 00:51:42,994
W.
:
00:51:42,994 --> 00:51:44,244
Bochamp is impressed.
:
00:51:44,244 --> 00:51:45,524
He's like, you killed five people.
:
00:51:45,524 --> 00:51:46,494
Who'd you kill first?
:
00:51:46,494 --> 00:51:47,034
You know what I mean?
:
00:51:47,364 --> 00:51:47,724
Did you kill it?
:
00:51:47,754 --> 00:51:48,724
Did you kill bill first?
:
00:51:49,264 --> 00:51:51,124
So anyway, and he gets
another good line too.
:
00:51:51,124 --> 00:51:53,234
He goes, all I know is
who's going to be last.
:
00:51:54,984 --> 00:51:57,654
The biographer basically shits
his pants and runs out of there.
:
00:51:58,194 --> 00:52:01,774
All right, so resolution as he's
leaving he he drops the threats to
:
00:52:01,774 --> 00:52:06,244
all the town and the onlookers and the
and the Prostitutes that are watching.
:
00:52:06,554 --> 00:52:11,084
Yeah, he's basically like treat
your women better give Ned a proper
:
00:52:11,094 --> 00:52:14,644
burial You know do this do that or
I'm gonna come back and kill all you
:
00:52:14,664 --> 00:52:19,194
sons of bitches Actually, before that,
he says, Alright, I'm coming out.
:
00:52:19,194 --> 00:52:21,084
Anyone takes a shot at
me, I'm gonna kill him.
:
00:52:21,274 --> 00:52:22,974
And not just that, I'm
gonna kill his wife.
:
00:52:23,264 --> 00:52:24,184
Burn his damn house down.
:
00:52:25,514 --> 00:52:26,844
Chris: Right, I love that line.
:
00:52:30,094 --> 00:52:34,664
Jerome: So anyway, Great final moment for
him as he rides off into the rainy night.
:
00:52:35,064 --> 00:52:38,164
And then of course the closing image is
a perfect bookend from the beginning.
:
00:52:38,174 --> 00:52:40,934
It's another Will
silhouette to the sunset.
:
00:52:41,274 --> 00:52:43,384
This time he's standing
at Claudia's grave.
:
00:52:43,384 --> 00:52:43,709
And that's it.
:
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:48,499
And the closing crawl details how he
moved to San Francisco and prospered
:
00:52:48,499 --> 00:52:53,129
in dry goods and the picture of
Will Money, I believe, disappears.
:
00:52:53,129 --> 00:52:55,609
Like he fades when that crawl is going on.
:
00:52:56,269 --> 00:52:57,949
Alright, we got a lot to unpack here.
:
00:52:57,949 --> 00:52:58,409
We're not done yet.
:
00:52:58,419 --> 00:52:59,339
That was just the beats.
:
00:52:59,349 --> 00:53:01,149
Now notes on character.
:
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:02,109
Okay.
:
00:53:02,814 --> 00:53:05,864
So I mentioned this already, several
moments were shown that depict Will's age.
:
00:53:05,864 --> 00:53:07,314
I didn't think I put it in
the notes, but I guess I did.
:
00:53:07,584 --> 00:53:10,994
He falls not once but twice while
trying to wrangle the feverish hogs,
:
00:53:11,214 --> 00:53:14,074
and there's countless times where he
stumbles trying to get on the damn horse.
:
00:53:14,514 --> 00:53:18,194
As mentioned, when Will is still in
the debate stage in the first act,
:
00:53:18,334 --> 00:53:21,654
he does the target practice where he
tries to hit the coffee can, right?
:
00:53:21,914 --> 00:53:26,314
He misses every shot, he gets mad, grabs
the shotgun, we already talked about that.
:
00:53:26,604 --> 00:53:29,714
However, in the climactic scene,
the only other time he uses a
:
00:53:29,714 --> 00:53:30,739
revolver, he uses a revolver.
:
00:53:31,229 --> 00:53:33,329
He's dead on and spot on in every shot.
:
00:53:33,859 --> 00:53:37,169
This I believe signifies is not just
cause he was drunk and he was his old
:
00:53:37,169 --> 00:53:41,819
self again, but it is, it signifies
to me the killer instinct in him.
:
00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:47,479
If he's aiming at a coffee can, his brain
is not invested in hitting the target.
:
00:53:47,569 --> 00:53:48,259
You know what I mean?
:
00:53:48,689 --> 00:53:51,929
But if it's a person, particularly
an assailant who's shooting back at
:
00:53:51,929 --> 00:53:56,369
you, his instinct takes over and his
brain targets the shot perfectly.
:
00:53:56,459 --> 00:53:58,119
He's dead on, on every shot.
:
00:53:58,639 --> 00:53:59,099
What's he say?
:
00:53:59,129 --> 00:54:01,889
Oh, even after the killings, even
after the shooting, when he's at the
:
00:54:01,899 --> 00:54:04,099
bar, he says, I've always been lucky.
:
00:54:04,149 --> 00:54:04,379
No, no.
:
00:54:04,379 --> 00:54:06,039
He says, I was lucky in the order.
:
00:54:06,179 --> 00:54:08,499
I've always been lucky when
it comes to killing folks.
:
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:09,559
Right?
:
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:14,129
So that kind of explains how, even when
he was drunk out of his mind, He was the
:
00:54:14,129 --> 00:54:17,589
deadliest guy around because his brain
would kick in on that killer instinct.
:
00:54:18,279 --> 00:54:22,739
Grillie's owner, Skinny, is another
interesting dissect, because at
:
00:54:22,739 --> 00:54:25,689
first he comes off kind of like
a good guy at the very beginning.
:
00:54:25,689 --> 00:54:29,419
He has his own little save the cat
moment when he saves Delilah, right?
:
00:54:29,419 --> 00:54:32,349
The guy's cutting her up and he
puts a gun to his head and says, get
:
00:54:32,349 --> 00:54:35,924
off of her cowboy, you know, like,
So you're thinking, oh Skinny is
:
00:54:35,924 --> 00:54:37,324
really protective of these girls.
:
00:54:37,584 --> 00:54:41,934
But as the movie goes on, we kind of find
out that Skinny is a piece of shit, right?
:
00:54:41,934 --> 00:54:45,874
Like, he calls them whores, he calls
them bitches, he smacks them around,
:
00:54:45,874 --> 00:54:47,534
he treats them like they're property.
:
00:54:48,034 --> 00:54:51,764
And he, he's otherwise
kind of a shitty dude.
:
00:54:52,084 --> 00:54:56,489
And the reason they do this is because
is so that you can forgive Will for
:
00:54:56,569 --> 00:54:58,779
killing him when he was unarmed, right?
:
00:54:59,149 --> 00:55:02,149
Especially they show, they, like I
said, they throw that part in, like
:
00:55:02,149 --> 00:55:05,799
you said, they throw that part at
the end where he put Ned out front.
:
00:55:06,059 --> 00:55:06,389
Chris: Right.
:
00:55:06,479 --> 00:55:10,329
Jerome: So if for no other reason,
we've spent two hours lessening our
:
00:55:10,329 --> 00:55:15,469
like for Skinny, but in those same two
hours, we enhanced our like for Ned.
:
00:55:16,169 --> 00:55:19,489
And when Will says he shoulda
armed himself if he's gonna
:
00:55:19,489 --> 00:55:22,929
decorate his saloon with my friend,
at that point we forgive him.
:
00:55:23,389 --> 00:55:25,019
We're like, okay, yeah,
you can kill Skinny.
:
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:25,499
That's fine.
:
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:26,119
Right?
:
00:55:26,799 --> 00:55:27,959
Like, nobody's mad at that, right?
:
00:55:28,419 --> 00:55:32,719
Similarly, going back to Will,
despite his reputation, we only see
:
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,579
him as someone we would root for.
:
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:37,379
He's a good dad at the beginning.
:
00:55:37,399 --> 00:55:38,409
Like, this is what we see.
:
00:55:38,849 --> 00:55:39,439
He's a good dad.
:
00:55:39,449 --> 00:55:41,149
He's a, he's a, he's a widower.
:
00:55:41,149 --> 00:55:45,469
I guess I would say he's a good widower
because he wants to stay true to his wife.
:
00:55:45,499 --> 00:55:48,219
He doesn't go get a girl of
his own or anything like that.
:
00:55:48,229 --> 00:55:49,539
He doesn't cuss anymore.
:
00:55:49,879 --> 00:55:51,599
He doesn't drink anymore.
:
00:55:51,989 --> 00:55:54,899
These are all the things
that we like about him.
:
00:55:55,944 --> 00:55:58,704
And he defends Ned, right?
:
00:55:58,704 --> 00:56:02,004
When Ned first meets the kid and the kid's
like, I'm not splitting my money with him.
:
00:56:02,004 --> 00:56:03,154
I don't want to go along with him.
:
00:56:03,524 --> 00:56:05,134
He says, all right, well
then we're going back.
:
00:56:05,204 --> 00:56:05,774
You know what I mean?
:
00:56:05,774 --> 00:56:10,194
Like he needs this money, but he's
not gonna, you know, refuse Ned.
:
00:56:10,324 --> 00:56:11,364
He's going to stick up for him.
:
00:56:11,504 --> 00:56:11,814
Chris: Yeah.
:
00:56:11,874 --> 00:56:15,604
Jerome: So, and again, when Davey
is shot, And screaming in pain for
:
00:56:15,604 --> 00:56:18,834
some water, which is another kind
of, although it's sad for Davey,
:
00:56:18,834 --> 00:56:20,094
it's kind of a comical scene.
:
00:56:20,954 --> 00:56:23,454
Will yells out, we give him
some water, God damn it.
:
00:56:23,464 --> 00:56:24,374
We ain't going to shoot.
:
00:56:25,934 --> 00:56:30,374
So you see that even as a killer,
he has moments of heart, right?
:
00:56:30,924 --> 00:56:34,244
So here's where I get to the sad
reality of his spiritual journey.
:
00:56:35,499 --> 00:56:39,409
He mentions several times that he
barely remembers any of the killings
:
00:56:39,459 --> 00:56:43,399
or any of his stories of the past
because he, you know, whatever, he was
:
00:56:43,399 --> 00:56:45,209
too drunk or he doesn't remember them.
:
00:56:45,969 --> 00:56:51,369
If his wife Claudia cured him of drinking
in wickedness, as he put it, and gave him
:
00:56:51,399 --> 00:56:56,609
two loving children, then he was never
really punished for any of his past sins.
:
00:56:57,699 --> 00:56:59,689
Claudia eventually dying of smallpox?
:
00:57:00,334 --> 00:57:03,724
Eh, that's not a punishment to him,
because it wasn't at his hands.
:
00:57:03,804 --> 00:57:04,344
Right.
:
00:57:04,664 --> 00:57:05,074
Right?
:
00:57:05,524 --> 00:57:09,114
The opening crawl suggests it was not
at his hands, she died a smallpox.
:
00:57:09,474 --> 00:57:13,184
He didn't do anything that he would feel
guilty about when it comes to Claudia.
:
00:57:13,744 --> 00:57:16,424
That is why this journey had to happen.
:
00:57:16,814 --> 00:57:18,254
Will has to suffer.
:
00:57:18,454 --> 00:57:20,434
He has to pay for his sins.
:
00:57:20,754 --> 00:57:24,104
This time, he recruits his
best friend Ned to go along.
:
00:57:24,574 --> 00:57:26,334
Ned never makes it back alive.
:
00:57:26,334 --> 00:57:27,004
Yeah.
:
00:57:27,389 --> 00:57:32,259
That's because of will will is going to
fill that guilt for the rest of his life.
:
00:57:32,714 --> 00:57:36,524
That he got Ned into this and
Ned was, and he didn't just die.
:
00:57:36,604 --> 00:57:38,314
He was whipped to death.
:
00:57:38,954 --> 00:57:41,334
It was a bad death, right?
:
00:57:41,764 --> 00:57:44,484
That's his punishment
that he now has to endure.
:
00:57:44,724 --> 00:57:46,214
Because of him, Ned is dead.
:
00:57:46,514 --> 00:57:47,954
This is supported throughout the film.
:
00:57:47,974 --> 00:57:51,884
Specifically when he's dying, he
says that he sees visions and ghosts.
:
00:57:52,174 --> 00:57:56,864
These spirits of his victims are the angel
of death coming to collect for his past.
:
00:57:57,434 --> 00:57:58,294
Killing him!
:
00:57:58,509 --> 00:58:01,379
Particularly at that moment,
like from the fever, that would
:
00:58:01,379 --> 00:58:03,039
have been too humane for Will.
:
00:58:03,339 --> 00:58:04,439
He needs to suffer.
:
00:58:04,709 --> 00:58:07,719
The guilt of being responsible
for Ned's death is going to
:
00:58:07,729 --> 00:58:09,079
cut deeper than any death.
:
00:58:09,379 --> 00:58:12,649
The angel of death was certainly
there, but it wasn't coming for him.
:
00:58:12,649 --> 00:58:13,619
It was coming for Ned.
:
00:58:14,729 --> 00:58:18,249
Eventually, Ned suffers again, like
I said, the most brutal of deaths,
:
00:58:18,699 --> 00:58:21,009
and that's his payment for his sins.
:
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:23,479
That's Ned's payment for the
sins that he did in the past.
:
00:58:25,414 --> 00:58:29,384
Within the killing of the young Davy
scene, Ned fails to do the killing
:
00:58:29,644 --> 00:58:32,074
this losing his nerve and falters.
:
00:58:32,114 --> 00:58:33,914
This is emasculating for him.
:
00:58:34,324 --> 00:58:36,314
He was a once hardened killer himself.
:
00:58:36,534 --> 00:58:42,334
Now he feels that he's forced to quit, you
know, almost out of embarrassment, right?
:
00:58:43,594 --> 00:58:51,714
And like, in a way, he at that
point, quitting and leaving should
:
00:58:51,714 --> 00:58:53,074
have saved him, but it didn't.
:
00:58:53,104 --> 00:58:54,454
The boys caught up to him and killed him.
:
00:58:54,944 --> 00:58:56,194
So, that's on Will.
:
00:58:56,844 --> 00:59:00,424
Another side point, the rain serves as
a driving factor throughout the film.
:
00:59:00,684 --> 00:59:02,574
First, it's dark and mysterious.
:
00:59:02,734 --> 00:59:06,354
You know, most of the film, the
brutal scenes happen when it rains.
:
00:59:06,444 --> 00:59:08,604
English Bob's beatdown
is the only exception.
:
00:59:09,084 --> 00:59:10,544
That happened in the broad daylight.
:
00:59:10,874 --> 00:59:13,304
But everything else the
cowboy's cutting Delilah.
:
00:59:13,709 --> 00:59:14,989
In the beginning, it's raining.
:
00:59:15,009 --> 00:59:17,289
When Will gets sick and gets
the shit kicked out of him
:
00:59:17,289 --> 00:59:18,699
by little Bill, it's raining.
:
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:22,439
And of course the ending scene where
he kills five people, it's raining.
:
00:59:22,989 --> 00:59:27,559
Also almost comically, the rain serves
as a metaphor when the biographer
:
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:31,529
is back at little Bill's house and
Bill's filling these pages that he's
:
00:59:31,529 --> 00:59:35,349
writing down with this load of BS that
little Bill's giving him about how
:
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:37,539
great he is and what a bad ass he is.
:
00:59:37,549 --> 00:59:37,799
Right.
:
00:59:37,849 --> 00:59:39,449
The rain's coming through the roof.
:
00:59:39,769 --> 00:59:43,699
So that's a metaphor that there's
holes in this story, right?
:
00:59:44,609 --> 00:59:48,819
That as much as he's telling about
how great he is, it's bullshit.
:
00:59:48,859 --> 00:59:50,709
And that's why the roof
is leaking all the water.
:
00:59:50,709 --> 00:59:52,779
And he has that funny moment
where he's like, Oh, maybe you
:
00:59:52,779 --> 00:59:54,169
should just hang the carpenter.
:
00:59:55,469 --> 00:59:58,069
Little Bill gets pissed
because he was the carpenter.
:
00:59:58,149 --> 00:59:58,479
Yeah.
:
00:59:58,639 --> 00:59:59,199
All right.
:
00:59:59,329 --> 01:00:01,009
Few more points of
trivia before we move on.
:
01:00:01,009 --> 01:00:05,889
A thousand dollar bounty in:is worth nearly 31 grand today.
:
01:00:06,389 --> 01:00:07,689
Shot in Alberta, Canada.
:
01:00:07,699 --> 01:00:09,539
The town of Big Whiskey is fictional.
:
01:00:09,939 --> 01:00:19,029
Clint has directed 16 feature films before
Unforgiven, and another 23 films after.
:
01:00:19,519 --> 01:00:24,509
Unforgiven, his 17th film,
was the first of his to garner
:
01:00:24,579 --> 01:00:26,739
any acting nominations ever.
:
01:00:26,879 --> 01:00:27,299
Wow.
:
01:00:27,579 --> 01:00:29,269
And a Best Picture nomination.
:
01:00:29,509 --> 01:00:34,299
For the 24 films since Unforgiven,
Eleven acting roles had Oscar
:
01:00:34,299 --> 01:00:35,819
nominations and four of them won.
:
01:00:36,339 --> 01:00:39,789
Here are the supporting roles
in Clint directed movies.
:
01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:42,809
Gene Hackman in Unforgiven, that
was the first one, and he won.
:
01:00:43,229 --> 01:00:45,339
Tim Robbins, Mystic River, he won as well.
:
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:46,289
That's two in a row.
:
01:00:46,909 --> 01:00:49,519
Marcia Gay Harden, Mystic
River, also was nominated.
:
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:50,149
She didn't win.
:
01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:53,209
Morgan Freeman, Million
Dollar Baby,::
01:00:53,359 --> 01:00:56,089
So that's three Oscars in
the Best Supporting Category
:
01:00:56,099 --> 01:00:57,489
in Clint directed films.
:
01:00:57,989 --> 01:01:02,509
Matt Damon, nominated for Best Supporting
::
01:01:02,509 --> 01:01:05,039
s for Rich in Richard Jewell,::
01:01:06,019 --> 01:01:08,389
Also, here's the leading roles.
:
01:01:08,979 --> 01:01:09,999
Clint was the first.
:
01:01:09,999 --> 01:01:12,629
He directed himself to a
Best Actor nomination in 92.
:
01:01:12,779 --> 01:01:13,499
That was the first one.
:
01:01:13,799 --> 01:01:17,119
Meryl Streep, nominated for Best
Actress in::
01:01:17,299 --> 01:01:20,079
Sean Penn, Mystic River,
::
01:01:20,409 --> 01:01:24,079
Hilary Swank, Million
Dollar Baby,::
01:01:24,189 --> 01:01:25,749
So that's back to back years.
:
01:01:26,249 --> 01:01:29,269
Where the lead role in a Clint
directed movie won the Oscar.
:
01:01:29,979 --> 01:01:31,829
Clint Eastwood was also
nominated for Million Dollar
:
01:01:31,829 --> 01:01:33,359
Baby in::
01:01:33,389 --> 01:01:37,659
Angelina Jolie, nominated for Best
Actress in Changeling,::
01:01:37,919 --> 01:01:41,179
Morgan Freeman, nominated Best
Actor in Invictus,::
01:01:41,459 --> 01:01:46,259
And finally, Bradley Cooper, nominated
for American Sniper,::
01:01:46,749 --> 01:01:47,899
But, isn't that crazy?
:
01:01:48,129 --> 01:01:48,279
Yeah.
:
01:01:48,279 --> 01:01:51,329
That he had directed, it's almost
like he took those 16 films to really
:
01:01:51,329 --> 01:01:52,799
figure out how to work with actors.
:
01:01:53,049 --> 01:01:53,379
Chris: Yeah.
:
01:01:53,439 --> 01:01:55,789
Jerome: And then once Unforgiven
hit, everything after that
:
01:01:55,789 --> 01:01:57,239
was fuckin Oscar gold.
:
01:01:57,429 --> 01:01:58,809
Chris: Yeah, that's awesome.
:
01:01:59,399 --> 01:02:01,689
Jerome: Clinton himself has four
Oscars, two for directing, two
:
01:02:01,689 --> 01:02:02,759
for producing a Best Picture.
:
01:02:02,909 --> 01:02:05,049
Two for Unforgiven, two
for Million Dollar Baby.
:
01:02:05,099 --> 01:02:05,979
No acting Oscars.
:
01:02:06,349 --> 01:02:09,369
The screenplay floated around
Hollywood for nearly 20 years.
:
01:02:09,379 --> 01:02:10,259
Chris: Isn't that crazy?
:
01:02:10,379 --> 01:02:12,989
Jerome: Yeah, and it reminds me of
how, you know, there's that story
:
01:02:12,989 --> 01:02:15,899
that the book for Schindler's List
was in Spielberg's drawer for 11
:
01:02:15,909 --> 01:02:18,669
years before he decided to make it.
:
01:02:18,899 --> 01:02:21,919
It's just funny to me how these things
sort of linger, you know what I mean?
:
01:02:21,929 --> 01:02:22,319
Chris: Yeah.
:
01:02:22,379 --> 01:02:25,179
Jerome: And they don't ever get
made, or when they do finally
:
01:02:25,179 --> 01:02:26,859
get made, they're masterpieces.
:
01:02:26,919 --> 01:02:27,259
Right.
:
01:02:27,599 --> 01:02:30,189
You know, and it likely went
through a lot of rewrites.
:
01:02:30,279 --> 01:02:34,499
In fact, there's one version of Unforgiven
where the Schofield kid is so guilt
:
01:02:34,509 --> 01:02:35,939
ridden at the end, he drowns himself.
:
01:02:35,939 --> 01:02:41,469
Uh, As stated earlier, the film was
th,::
01:02:41,479 --> 01:02:44,799
birthday, Frances Fisher, who plays
strawberry Alice and just dating
:
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:49,038
Clint at the time, she was four months
pregnant at the Academy Awards when the
:
01:02:49,109 --> 01:02:53,999
movie won best picture her and Clint's
daughter, Francesca was later born on.
:
01:02:54,413 --> 01:02:59,094
th,::
01:02:59,094 --> 01:02:59,604
Chris: Crazy.
:
01:03:00,324 --> 01:03:02,854
Jerome: You see how Unforgiven
and Clint and Francis Fisher,
:
01:03:02,884 --> 01:03:03,904
it all comes back to me.
:
01:03:03,954 --> 01:03:04,254
Yeah.
:
01:03:04,904 --> 01:03:10,324
Two credits are incorrectly swapped in the
closing credit sequence on IMDb as well
:
01:03:10,324 --> 01:03:13,004
because IMDb follows what's on screen.
:
01:03:13,534 --> 01:03:15,264
But two of the prostitutes are wrong.
:
01:03:15,274 --> 01:03:19,964
It says Faith, who was actually played
by Beverly Elliott, says that she
:
01:03:19,964 --> 01:03:21,804
played Beverly Elliott played Silky.
:
01:03:21,944 --> 01:03:22,744
And Silky.
:
01:03:23,484 --> 01:03:26,594
was actually played by Lisa Repo Martel.
:
01:03:26,654 --> 01:03:28,004
It says that she played Faith.
:
01:03:28,304 --> 01:03:28,714
Hmm.
:
01:03:29,324 --> 01:03:33,474
The get it wrong on the film, like whoever
was doing the credits got it wrong.
:
01:03:33,494 --> 01:03:34,134
Wow.
:
01:03:34,234 --> 01:03:34,374
That's crazy.
:
01:03:34,374 --> 01:03:37,264
And again, IMDB follows what's on screen.
:
01:03:37,384 --> 01:03:40,904
They also have it wrong, but if you look
at both of those actresses individual
:
01:03:40,904 --> 01:03:45,674
pages on the trivia part, it mentions
that, that they are incorrectly credited.
:
01:03:45,804 --> 01:03:46,244
Chris: Interesting.
:
01:03:46,274 --> 01:03:46,814
Jerome: Yeah, I know.
:
01:03:46,844 --> 01:03:47,234
So cool.
:
01:03:47,264 --> 01:03:48,344
First time I ever saw that.
:
01:03:48,344 --> 01:03:50,874
First time I ever saw that
somebody got the credits wrong.
:
01:03:51,304 --> 01:03:52,194
How do you fuck that up?
:
01:03:52,194 --> 01:03:53,244
You had one job, dude.
:
01:03:53,404 --> 01:03:54,364
You had one job.
:
01:03:54,913 --> 01:03:58,494
Alright, last thing on Unforgiven before
I turn it over to you on Final Thoughts.
:
01:03:58,724 --> 01:04:01,454
There's a fan theory
going around the internet.
:
01:04:02,459 --> 01:04:06,359
That the character, Clint Eastwood's
character, Dirty Harry, is a
:
01:04:06,399 --> 01:04:07,819
descendant of William Money.
:
01:04:08,399 --> 01:04:12,479
And here's why, not only because it's
played by the same guy, but they have a
:
01:04:12,479 --> 01:04:17,538
similar savvy with a gun, with a handgun,
they're ruthless to criminals, but most
:
01:04:17,538 --> 01:04:22,089
importantly, the end crawl of Unforgiven
states that he moved to San Francisco,
:
01:04:22,089 --> 01:04:24,459
where he prospered in dry goods.
:
01:04:24,919 --> 01:04:30,439
Dirty Harry movies all take place in
San Francisco, where Harry can't land.
:
01:04:30,619 --> 01:04:34,339
Is an inspector for the San
Francisco Police Department.
:
01:04:34,619 --> 01:04:35,249
That's great.
:
01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:36,059
I love it.
:
01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:39,189
Well I, well I finished my whiskey,
give me your final thoughts here.
:
01:04:40,288 --> 01:04:41,319
Chris: Well, as usual.
:
01:04:41,329 --> 01:04:41,889
How much of
:
01:04:41,889 --> 01:04:44,809
Jerome: this, well yeah, but how
much of this that I just rattled
:
01:04:44,809 --> 01:04:47,894
off did you notice and see when
you were watching the movie?
:
01:04:47,984 --> 01:04:49,934
Are you at the point now where
you're watching a movie like this
:
01:04:49,944 --> 01:04:51,154
and you're like, Oh, all is lost.
:
01:04:51,374 --> 01:04:51,544
Oh,
:
01:04:51,574 --> 01:04:52,284
Chris: there's the midpoint.
:
01:04:52,284 --> 01:04:53,034
Yeah, actually.
:
01:04:53,034 --> 01:04:53,604
Yeah.
:
01:04:53,604 --> 01:04:54,154
A lot of that.
:
01:04:54,154 --> 01:04:54,774
I did see.
:
01:04:54,774 --> 01:04:55,194
Yeah.
:
01:04:55,224 --> 01:04:56,234
Especially now.
:
01:04:56,274 --> 01:04:58,184
I mean, not probably
the first time I saw it.
:
01:04:58,224 --> 01:04:58,554
Right.
:
01:04:58,614 --> 01:05:00,574
But I'm watching it.
:
01:05:00,594 --> 01:05:02,174
Yeah, I, I do that all the time.
:
01:05:02,174 --> 01:05:03,163
I'll nudge Jesse.
:
01:05:03,163 --> 01:05:04,674
I'm like, Oh, all is lost right here.
:
01:05:07,374 --> 01:05:07,904
Shut up.
:
01:05:08,074 --> 01:05:08,924
Watch the movie.
:
01:05:09,244 --> 01:05:09,264
How
:
01:05:09,514 --> 01:05:10,374
Jerome: did Jesse like it?
:
01:05:10,494 --> 01:05:11,614
Was that the first time she'd seen it?
:
01:05:12,014 --> 01:05:16,674
Chris: No, and she fell asleep because
that's what she does in action films.
:
01:05:16,884 --> 01:05:17,604
Oh my god.
:
01:05:17,964 --> 01:05:22,639
I know, but the next day she was like,
Why, why are you guys doing these
:
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:29,038
movies because she watched she walked
in on wick also She's like, oh, oh,
:
01:05:29,038 --> 01:05:36,899
no, you know And when Jesse says, oh,
oh no that kind of sums up her review
:
01:05:37,959 --> 01:05:40,339
Jerome: Anyone that needs to
know about our Fargo episode
:
01:05:40,339 --> 01:05:41,499
go back and listen to that
:
01:05:42,989 --> 01:05:44,269
Chris: She was kind of horrified.
:
01:05:44,279 --> 01:05:47,719
She's like, what do you guys see in
these movies are just so violent.
:
01:05:48,259 --> 01:05:51,844
Jerome: Yes, but they're great
movies They're great movies.
:
01:05:51,874 --> 01:05:52,224
Okay.
:
01:05:52,474 --> 01:05:55,394
Chris: Well, before we move on, I was
going to say, we're going to do six
:
01:05:55,394 --> 01:05:57,784
degrees at the end of the next episode.
:
01:05:57,834 --> 01:06:02,144
You want, you want to just give a tease on
what the, what the six degrees will be on.
:
01:06:02,144 --> 01:06:06,004
That way if our listener wants to
try to figure it out before the
:
01:06:06,004 --> 01:06:07,294
next episode, they can get a shot.
:
01:06:07,874 --> 01:06:10,384
Jerome: I like how we still
say listener as singular.
:
01:06:11,684 --> 01:06:12,144
Chris: Well,
:
01:06:14,034 --> 01:06:14,904
Jerome: We have one listener.
:
01:06:14,934 --> 01:06:15,304
Yeah,
:
01:06:15,394 --> 01:06:16,494
Chris: we know who you are.
:
01:06:16,884 --> 01:06:17,784
Thanks, mom.
:
01:06:17,904 --> 01:06:18,084
No.
:
01:06:18,264 --> 01:06:18,864
Jerome: Anyway.
:
01:06:19,224 --> 01:06:19,913
Anyway, yeah.
:
01:06:19,913 --> 01:06:21,954
So uh, my brother uh, perfect.
:
01:06:21,954 --> 01:06:22,614
True to form.
:
01:06:22,944 --> 01:06:26,094
Tried to pick two people
that are hardly in anything.
:
01:06:26,094 --> 01:06:26,184
Yep.
:
01:06:26,719 --> 01:06:32,359
And uh, uh, Aline Lavasseur,
who plays William Money's
:
01:06:32,359 --> 01:06:34,149
youngest young daughter, Penny.
:
01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:35,229
Chris: Penny, Penny Money.
:
01:06:35,269 --> 01:06:39,219
Jerome: Uh, In uh, Penny Money
in uh, which is kind of funny.
:
01:06:39,249 --> 01:06:40,829
Penny, Money, Penny Money.
:
01:06:41,239 --> 01:06:42,538
Uh, In Unforgiven.
:
01:06:42,949 --> 01:06:48,799
Uh, With Bridget uh, Reagan, who
plays Addie, the bartender of
:
01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:50,739
the Continental, in John Wick.
:
01:06:50,829 --> 01:06:52,419
So he wanted me to connect those two.
:
01:06:53,469 --> 01:06:55,499
Chris: And she hasn't
been in a lot either, so.
:
01:06:55,999 --> 01:06:57,439
Jerome: Right this was a fun one.
:
01:06:57,469 --> 01:06:58,029
So yeah, we're
:
01:06:58,029 --> 01:07:01,089
Chris: gonna, we're gonna solve
this at the end of the next episode.
:
01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:06,919
Well, as we always say at the end of each
episode first of all, thanks for listening
:
01:07:06,949 --> 01:07:09,619
and uh, go support your local cinema.
:
01:07:09,799 --> 01:07:10,959
Jerome: Keep drinking and keep watching.