Episode 19

What Makes a Good Sequel? T2 vs SPEED 2

Evaluating Sequel Success and Failure

In this episode, Chris and Jerome dig into the intricacies of movie sequels by examining 'Terminator 2: Judgment Day' and 'Speed 2: Cruise Control.' They assess what elements contribute to a successful sequel and what leads to failure. Through detailed analysis, they introduce Jerome’s Sequel Gauntlet, a five-point criterion system for evaluating sequels. They also touch upon the drawbacks of 'Speed 2,' the superior aspects of 'T2,' and discuss related trivia and character arcs. Alanng with that, they include their humorous take on the challenges of connecting actors in their popular 'Six Degrees' segment.

00:00 Coolio Confusion and Introduction

00:41 Booze Talk and Movie Teasers

01:55 Discussing Sequels: Speed 2 and Terminator 2

04:15 Lions Game Recap and Aidan Hutchinson Injury

11:18 Terminator 2: Judgment Day Analysis

43:32 Plot Flaws and Twists

43:44 Sarah's Plan and the T-1000

44:29 The Final Battle

46:40 Resolution and Aftermath

50:05 Character Arcs and Themes

59:04 Trivia and Behind the Scenes

01:07:28 Speed 2: Cruise Control

01:26:27 Willem Dafoe: The Perfect Bad Guy

01:26:51 Analyzing the Story Arc

01:28:10 The Disabled Ship: A New World

01:30:00 Evacuation Issues and Geiger's Role

01:30:45 The B Story: Love and Marriage

01:31:49 Midpoint: Realizing the Villain

01:33:18 Bad Guys Closing In

01:33:47 All is Lost: Annie's Hostage Situation

01:34:27 The Final Act: Saving Annie

01:35:15 The Five-Point Finale

01:43:35 Critiquing Character Arcs

01:53:14 Jerome's Sequel Gauntlet

02:02:54 Six Degrees of Separation

02:07:13 Final Thoughts and Wrap-UpFollow Silver Screen Happy Hour on Instagram here:

https://www.instagram.com/silverscreenhappyhour/

Transcript
Jerome:

You know at one point I was using Coolio.

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Chris: Oh really?

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Yeah, what's Coolio?

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I was like, oh really and then I

thought wait, I don't even know

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what the hell that is What's Coolio

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Jerome: Screaming right

now Coolio is a rapper.

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Chris: Oh Yeah, I am NOT

Hip to the rap scene.

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Jerome: You're like, what

streaming service is Coolio?

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Chris: That's what I, seriously, I

thought it was like new app or something.

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Oh, wait, what?

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It's a good thing no one ever

listens to the end of these shows.

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Jerome: That's great.

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It's a good thing Coolio

doesn't listen to our show.

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Chris: You are listening to the

silver screen happy hour, I'm Chris

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Wiegand along with my brother Jerome

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Jerome: present and accounted for

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Chris: Alright what are the

movies we are discussing today?

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Well, hold on, before we get

into the movies, We got a

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couple of things to talk about.

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Jerome: Yeah, and our booze,

don't forget our booze.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Jerome: Actually, let's do that first.

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Chris: Booze?

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Jerome: Yeah, cause my ice is melting.

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Chris: Okay, well, yeah, let's,

I'm gonna crack this open.

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So, first of all, let me You talk

about yours since you got a poor, you,

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you're got melting ice over there.

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Mine's not as time critical.

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Jerome: And normally I don't even

put really good whiskey on ice, but

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it's the middle of the afternoon.

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So I'm, I, I gotta, I gotta

take a little edge off of it.

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I'm still going with the

Blantons from previous episodes.

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I have not finished this bottle yet.

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In fact, I've only been

drinking this during our show.

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So the bottle is surviving.

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Here we go.

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Listen.

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Let me get this over by the

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Oh yeah.

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So, what do you got today?

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Chris: Well, I'm surprised you

went with a higher end since we're,

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since we're talking about sequels.

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Right, right.

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And so, I actually had that in mind,

because we're talking about sequels,

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and I was thinking about the movies,

and I'm like, I don't know what to pair.

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There isn't much alcohol use in

either of these movies, I don't think.

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Jerome: Right.

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Chris: And so I just went to my

refrigerator, and I'm like, what's the

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cheapest crap that, you know, sequels

are kind of like, Nah, especially the

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second one we're going to talk about.

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So I, I thought, what

does Speed 2 taste like?

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I think Speed 2 tastes like cucumber and

lime spiked seltzer from Member's Mark.

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Yeah, that's right.

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I'm going to, I'm going to be

suffering through this one.

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Hold on.

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Here we go.

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So you tipped,

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Jerome: so as you drink that,

I'll tell the audience, you tipped

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your hand a little bit there.

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My brother just took a sip of Speed

2, if Speed 2 was in liquid form.

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So, alright, so we are, he tipped his

hand already, showed you his cards.

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Speed 2 is one of the

movies we're doing today.

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We're also doing

Terminator 2 Judgment Day.

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And the theme for today is,

what makes a good sequel?

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And what makes A crap sequel.

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Now we, we played with this similarly

back when we did our Jaws episode.

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We kinda tied in.

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You know, a sequel there, we did Jaws

4, but but that was more about just

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that Jaws 1 is an amazing screenplay.

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And on that one, we were just

comparing what makes a good

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script compared to a bad script.

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So we, we, we did those two

today is all about sequels.

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So think of some of your favorite sequels.

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I have a little fun thing

we're going to do at the end.

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Okay.

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It's called Jerome's sequel gauntlet.

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And We're going to run these

two through the ringer and see

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what comes out on the other end.

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But I think we should start in

order of their release date.

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So I think we should

do Terminator 2 first.

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Okay.

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And then we'll do Speed 2 after.

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Because by then we'll be nice

and liquored and oiled up.

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And maybe it'll help us tolerate

The not so genius of Speed 2.

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Chris: Well, Speed 2 is

better consumed drunk.

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Jerome: Yes, quite, quite better.

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Chris: But before we get to that, we

have some business to take care of.

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Jerome: We have some bittersweet business.

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Chris: Well, yeah.

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First of all, let's talk

about the bitter part.

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The sweet part, it's

kind of surrounding it.

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I mean, the Lions played probably

one of the best games I've ever

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seen them play in my lifetime.

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Jerome: Most people.

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If not for the bitter part, have us

as one of the top teams in the league

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right now, after that performance, for

those of you that don't know, at the

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time that we're doing this recording,

we went into Dallas and beat the living

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shit out of the Cowboys, 47 to nine.

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They never scored a touchdown.

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Isn't

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Chris: it the owner of GM's birthday?

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It was his

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Jerome: 82nd birthday for Jerry Jones.

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He is the owner slash G M and.

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Dak Prescott and C.

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D.

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Lamb and those high

paid offensive players.

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They never, they got three

field goals out of it.

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Oh my gosh.

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It was an ass beat.

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So

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Chris: gratifying if you're from Detroit.

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Well,

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Jerome: especially after

what happened last year.

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When we played in Dallas and we

got hosed by the refs on that

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bullshit two point conversion thing.

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So this was like a statement game.

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This was us coming out saying,

we're not going to need a two point

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conversion to beat your ass this time.

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We're just going to beat

the shit out of you.

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And you could see the anger and how

like David Montgomery was running.

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Like he ran angry.

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Like everybody played

angry and you could see it.

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See it.

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It's a

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Chris: multiple guys to take them

down when they could get them down.

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Jerome: So that was the sweet part.

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The bitter part is early third quarter.

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Our pro bowl defensive end, a captain of

our defense, probably the best defensive

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Chris: end in the league.

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Probably arguably

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Jerome: best defensive end in the league.

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Aidan Hutchinson broke both his

tibia and fibula on a play where

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he was sacking Dak Prescott.

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It was a freak play.

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His own player's knee just got

it at the worst angle and it

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just snapped it right in half.

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Yeah, it was gruesome.

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It's gruesome.

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And, and it's shitty because he's out for

the year now, some are saying within four,

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Chris: four to six months recovery time

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Jerome: with an injury like that.

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You hope he's back for week one next year.

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Like, it's just that bad.

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Chris: He did release a statement.

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Or his family released a

statement or something.

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He, he got word that he, if if the Super

Bowl, if, or when Detroit makes it to the

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Super Bowl, he intends to be on the field.

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So.

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He's gonna

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Jerome: wrap six pounds of duct tape on

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Chris: that leg and get out there.

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I would hate to see him

re injure that thing.

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I would too.

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I would, I would, oh my gosh.

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I mean, if he's healthy enough.

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Give him one play, just so he

can play in the Super Bowl.

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Jerome: He is a Wolverine after all.

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Oh my gosh, I know.

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He's a fighter.

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I don't know.

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No, no, but they did say that the

surgery was an absolute success.

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So they expect 100 percent recovery, there

was no complications, so that's good.

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That's a good first step.

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Right.

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Good first sign.

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I will say though, before we get on

to the movies it's fair to say that we

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can blame Aiden Hutchinson's injury.

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and being out for the year on mom.

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Now, poor Sue, she gets such

abuse on these podcasts.

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Now, let me, let me tell you why there's

reason there's context behind this.

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So.

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For anyone that doesn't know,

I am a jersey jinx, okay?

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When it comes to the Lions.

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My very first jersey I

ever got was Barry Sanders.

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He retired the next year.

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Then I got an Indomitian Sioux.

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He left in free agency the next year.

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I got I was like, well then I'm gonna get

somebody that I know isn't going anywhere.

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And I got myself a Calvin Johnson.

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He retired the next year.

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Since then, I've, I've had

Darius Slay, left and free.

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You should not have gotten that jersey.

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Left and free agency.

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Wait, wait, I didn't, I didn't, hang on.

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Don't talk about the ending yet.

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I had a Darius Slay jersey.

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He left in free agency.

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I got V, my wife, a Stafford jersey.

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We traded them the next year.

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I got my girls, my little girls.

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I think you're jinxed.

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I am.

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I'm a, I'm a Jersey Jinx.

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Now listen, now listen, I got my

girls, my two little girls, a DeAndre

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Swift and a TJ Hawkinson Jersey.

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They're both gone.

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Like, I mean, it's just every Jersey

I've ever gotten that player leaves.

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You should have got,

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Chris: what's number zero's name?

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You should have got him.

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He keeps getting penalties.

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He's a

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Jerome: rookie.

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You'll learn.

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But anyway, so I told myself

I'm never buying a jersey again.

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And I haven't.

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This Christmas, this past Christmas, right

before the NFC title game, I might add.

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Oh, no.

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Mom bought me this.

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We know how that game went.

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This Lions shirt, which I

love, but in Jersey fashion.

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What's it say on the back, Chris?

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Chris: Hutchison, 97.

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Jerome: It's got Hutchinson's name

and number on the back of the shirt.

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Now it's not a jersey, it's a t shirt.

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But it has his name

and number on the back.

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Thank you mom, it's a wonderfully

comfortable shirt, and you caused

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Aiden Hutchinson's leg injury.

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Chris: Well, I would just like to,

I would just like to redirect all

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the, I mean I know there's Lions fans

all over the, All over the world.

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But after watching Hutch this season,

especially, there's a lot of new fans.

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I mean, he had the first

few games, so many sacks.

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I don't have all the stats in front of

me, but he's the sack leader right now.

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He's the NFL

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Jerome: sack leader.

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Yeah.

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He has more than some teams.

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And this was their fifth

game because they had a bye.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Jerome: So this is only their fifth game.

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They're four and one and he

leads the league in sacks.

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Chris: All our best thoughts and

prayers go out to him and and

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I know the Lions, they stepped

up after he left the field too.

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Well, and that's what people

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Jerome: said.

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The game was already well in hand.

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You know what?

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He got hurt early third.

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There was the entire

second half to be played.

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Chris: Right.

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And they still couldn't score a touchdown.

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No, we closed it out.

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So yeah.

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Anyway, just wanted to make sure

we got that in there before.

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Yeah.

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Jerome: They didn't, they didn't

pull the starters and put backups

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in until the fourth quarter.

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So Yes, it was it was already I think like

32 or 33 to 6 at the time or something

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It was a big lead, but the aforementioned

NFC title game can tell you big leads

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at halftime don't mean shit so The fact

that we lost Hutch a few minutes into

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the second half and we still shut that

shit down Like I said, the guys were

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playing with a lot of emotion and a lot

of anger Oh, yeah, so you saw it with

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every tackle and every run that we had

on, on offense every time we had the

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ball, just, I mean, we, we, I think it was

three offensive plays were to our linemen.

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Yeah.

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Like, okay, so we played angry.

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Anyway, let's get to the

business at hand here.

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It was a lot of fun.

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All right, so we're going to start

today with again, what makes a good

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sequel, what makes a bad sequel.

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We're going to start with

Terminator 2 Judgment Day.

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If you haven't figured out already,

knowing what our next movie is, we're

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saying that Terminator 2 is the good

idea, is the good version of a sequel.

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Alright.

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Okay.

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Chris: Even though I have

my issues with the script

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Jerome: and some of the acting.

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I have, I have some plot issues

that we're going to talk about.

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I have one major issue.

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That I'll get to at the end.

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But still, with all the issues

I have with T2, it's still a

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far better sequel than Speed 2.

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But we'll get to that.

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Alright, specs.

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1991, directed by James Cameron, written

by James Cameron and William Wisher.

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Running time 2 hours 17 minutes,

budget of 102 million, which

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was a record at the time.

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He then broke his own record when

he Had a 200 million dollar budget

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for Titanic six years later.

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But anyway, that's what Cameron does.

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He's he's a spender He likes to spend

rd:

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the 4th of july weekend and it made close

to 32 Million in its opening weekend,

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which at the time it was the biggest r

rated movie opening ever it was topped.

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However, just one year later when

lethal weapon Three came out.

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Oh, wow.

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So talk about good sequels.

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Lethal Weapon movies are

generally all pretty good sequels.

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So T2 was the number two film

worldwide in:

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Side note, while other R rated

films have come out since then and

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made a lot of money, Passion of the

Christ, American Sniper, and Joker.

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Would all surpass T2.

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If you adjust for inflation, T2

would be, would have been, the

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highest grossing worldwide R rated

film ever at 473 million, that's

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inflated cost, until this year.

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Deadpool and Wolverine just passed the

1 billion mark for an R rated movie.

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That's insane.

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You can't take your kids to

see that over and over again.

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Like it doesn't have what Star Wars

had, you know, or any Marvel movie has

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to be R rated and do a billion dollars.

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Actually Oppenheimer

was R rated, wasn't it?

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Yeah, it was.

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Yeah, so shit so so does that

mean that deadpool and wolverine

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has already topped oppenheimer?

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Oh, it did because barbie was 1.

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5.

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Remember and oppenheimer was around One?

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Yeah, I think they're around a billion.

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So Deadpool and Wolverine, I

think right now is the highest

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grossing R rated movie ever.

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That's crazy.

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Wow.

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I still think Oppenheimer is

astounding because that movie

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was three hours long and R rated.

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Yeah, right.

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Three hours long and R rated.

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Okay, so back to 91 here.

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As stated, it finished number two.

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Rounding out the top five were number

five, City Slickers at 124 million.

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Number four, Silence of

the Lambs with 130 million.

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Number three, Robin Hood, Prince of

Thieves, with 165 million and I'm gonna

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let you guess the number one movie of

91 with a worldwide gross of 248 million

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and a Best Picture nomination and it was

the first ever for this type of film.

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Hmm.

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Chris: Was it animated?

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Jerome: Yes, it was.

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Okay, I think

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Chris: we mentioned it before,

I think we mentioned this movie

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before but I thought it was a

different year so I could be wrong.

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Was it Aladdin?

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No, it was the year before Aladdin

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Jerome: and Aladdin was not nominated

for Best Picture, but this one is true.

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What was it?

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Beauty and the Beast.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Okay.

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So that was the number one movie of 91.

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T2 was nominated for six Academy Awards

and won four of them, including Makeup and

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all the Special Effects Awards, obviously.

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The liquid metal thing was

just mind blowing at the time.

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Right.

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The two Oscars that it lost were

Best Editing and Cinematography,

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and both of those went to JFK.

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What a good year for movies, man.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Jerome: JFK, T2, Robin Hood, Silence

of the Lambs Beauty and the Beast.

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Okay, it stars Arnold Schwarzenegger

as the T 800, Edward Furlong as

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John Connor, Linda Hamilton as Sarah

nnor, Robert Patrick as the T:

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Earl Bowen as Dr.

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Silberman, Joe Morton as Miles

Dyson, and a very, very small role

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for Dean Norris of Breaking Bad

fame, who was Hank in it out when I

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Chris: saw him.

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I forgot he was in it.

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Well, I probably didn't even

know who he was at first.

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Well, I didn't know

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Jerome: who he was.

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S.

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W.

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Chris: A.

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T.

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Jerome: team leader, and oddly enough, one

year before this, he was also cast as S.

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W.

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A.

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T.

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team leader in Gremlins 2, The New Batch.

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Haha, that's funny.

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Chris: So did you, when you

saw his eyes and heard his

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voice, did you know it was him?

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I knew immediately, immediately.

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And I haven't watched T2.

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I haven't

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Jerome: watched T2.

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Yeah, I haven't watched T2 in years.

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So as many times as I've seen

this movie, I hadn't seen it

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since before Breaking Bad.

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So this time when I saw his eyes, I

knew immediately, I'm like, it's Hank!

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There's Hank!

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I did the exact same thing.

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Alright, so when did you

first see this movie?

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Chris: Oh, probably at the theater.

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I don't remember.

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Yeah, I know it.

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I know I went and saw it.

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I don't remember who I

saw it with or anything.

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But yeah, 91.

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Jerome: I distinctly remember

the marketing around it.

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Oh, it was massive.

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And Guns N Roses did a video and

a main song from the movie, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yep.

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And Arnold was in the video.

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Like, not just scenes from the movie.

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It was, if I remember the video correctly,

It's like concert video, but Arnold's in

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the crowd and he's like heading towards

them to like kill them or something.

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Guns and roses.

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Something like that.

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I don't know.

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I just remember he was in the video.

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And there was a, like I

said, a big marketing push.

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I mean, you couldn't go

anywhere in the summer of 91.

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Without seeing billboards and posters.

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And I mean,

402

:

Chris: Oh, it's probably on

fricking happy meals or something.

403

:

It was rated R,

404

:

right?

405

:

Jerome: Rated R and it's on lunchboxes.

406

:

I'm curious.

407

:

I should look

408

:

Chris: that up, but what kind

of marketing did they do?

409

:

Fast food marketing?

410

:

They had to have.

411

:

Jerome: Well, and you know, obviously

the box office speaks for itself, but

412

:

Arnold was just hitting, I mean, we're

talking, this is prime Arnold time, right?

413

:

Like, Terminator 1 was in 84, it was

7 years earlier, and in those 7 years,

414

:

man, he had fuckin Predator, right?

415

:

He had Commando, you know what I mean?

416

:

Like, he was really Sort of, I mean,

he hadn't done True Lies yet, but I

417

:

think he did Twins with Danny DeVito

already, so it's like, his appeal.

418

:

When did he do Daddy Descartes?

419

:

Chris: Didn't he do Daddy Descartes?

420

:

Oh, that was after, that was way after.

421

:

Yeah,

422

:

Jerome: but he did The Running Man.

423

:

Like, there were, Arnold movies

were huge through the 80s.

424

:

When was Total Recall?

425

:

That was in the 80s, right?

426

:

Total Recall was that might

have been:

427

:

have been right before this.

428

:

You have to look that up.

429

:

Come on, you're the IMDB guy, do you

have that up there in front of you?

430

:

We could you could actually just

give me a quick run of Arnold

431

:

releases prior to Total Recall

432

:

Chris: 1990, yep.

433

:

Jerome: 1990, so the year before.

434

:

So he was really in

prime Arnold time here.

435

:

And timing is everything.

436

:

And, and Terminator had become such

a cult classic on video, you know?

437

:

Yeah, big time.

438

:

That when they announced the camera

was gonna do this sequel And Cameron

439

:

himself was, was hitting all strides too.

440

:

He had done Aliens and then he did the

Abyss, where if you watch the Abyss,

441

:

he plays with the technology that would

later be used for the liquid metal, right?

442

:

The water.

443

:

Remember the water scene in the Abyss

where that thing comes out of the water?

444

:

Chris: Yeah.

445

:

Jerome: You know, so he kind of played

with all that stuff ahead of time to

446

:

sort of like, you know, test it out.

447

:

So both of them hitting their

stride at the right time.

448

:

It was perfect timing for the movie.

449

:

All right.

450

:

Log me.

451

:

Chris: Holy cow.

452

:

I didn't know this.

453

:

Arnold's first movie,

Hercules in New York,:

454

:

Jerome: Yeah.

455

:

Is he credited as Arnold Strong?

456

:

Chris: Yeah, as Arnold Strong, Mr.

457

:

Universe.

458

:

And it wasn't

459

:

Jerome: his voice either, they

had somebody dub the voice.

460

:

Oh, seriously?

461

:

Yeah, it's

462

:

Chris: so awful.

463

:

That's hilarious.

464

:

Wow, yeah, he really came into his

prime in the 80s, early 90s though.

465

:

Jerome: Oh yeah, Conan and shit.

466

:

Everything.

467

:

Terminator.

468

:

Conan 2, The Destroyer.

469

:

Remember that one?

470

:

I remember that always being

on cable when we were kids.

471

:

Yeah.

472

:

Alright, are you are you just gonna

spend the episode reading, or?

473

:

Chris: I'm just looking, I'm

just looking through his credits.

474

:

Yeah, he was in the You Could

Be Mine video from Guns N Roses.

475

:

That's the one you're referring to.

476

:

And that's the one they put

in the movie, obviously.

477

:

Yeah.

478

:

Log me.

479

:

I have a problem with this log line.

480

:

Let's have it.

481

:

A cyborg, identical to the one who failed

to kill Sarah Connor, must now protect

482

:

her 10 year old son, John, from an

even more advanced and powerful cyborg.

483

:

Yeah, so the problem with this Well,

first of all, he seems older than 10.

484

:

He seems older than 10.

485

:

He's got the changing voice.

486

:

I don't know when your voice changed.

487

:

I wasn't 10.

488

:

Jerome: Well, there's actually trivia

with that that I didn't include in my

489

:

notes, but I remember reading some about

it where he grew so much during the shoot.

490

:

I bet.

491

:

Not just his voice was changing.

492

:

They had to re dub some of his lines

because his voice was changing.

493

:

Yeah.

494

:

But also, he sprouted to where there's

scenes where they had to have him speak.

495

:

standing in a hole so that he would

still be shorter than Linda Hamilton.

496

:

That's hilarious.

497

:

I didn't realize that.

498

:

And that's just during the production.

499

:

Now, granted, the production

was like six, seven months long.

500

:

Chris: I mean, we can look it up.

501

:

I I'm guessing he was around

13 or something like that.

502

:

Jerome: Yeah, I think so.

503

:

But, but I have problems with the

log line other than 10 year old son.

504

:

Chris: Yeah.

505

:

Jerome: The log line, not to sound

like Peter Griffin from the family

506

:

guy, it insists upon itself.

507

:

Like it's, it's assuming you already

know everything about the first movie.

508

:

Right,

509

:

Chris: right, right, right.

510

:

So, yeah, you're like, who's Sarah Connor?

511

:

Jerome: Yeah, like, what if you

don't know who Sarah Connor is?

512

:

Right?

513

:

Like, you know, again, a logline should

be something that wants to draw you in.

514

:

And if you read a logline like

that, you're like, ugh, I gotta

515

:

watch the first movie first.

516

:

You know?

517

:

Yeah.

518

:

So, anyway.

519

:

Yeah, alright.

520

:

Alright, we have the beats.

521

:

Opening image, kids playing as it

cuts to post nuclear war reality

522

:

of machines running the world.

523

:

This is just before the opening

credits with Sarah Connor's

524

:

voiceover setting up the film.

525

:

It serves as a nice bookend to the

closing image, as this represents the

526

:

future that they know will happen.

527

:

So this is the known future opening image.

528

:

Four point push, right off

the bat, let's get to it.

529

:

Inciting incident, ten minutes in.

530

:

In back to back scenes, both the T 800 and

then the T:

531

:

This is a clear and exciting

incident, obviously, because

532

:

without this, there is no story.

533

:

We're gonna, we're gonna interject

inside the four point pusher for

534

:

a moment for the theme stated.

535

:

In the next scene, we meet John.

536

:

And we get John's theme for the film.

537

:

Not so much in dialogue.

538

:

But definitely in context.

539

:

At the 12 minute mark, his foster mom

Janelle says, quote, John, get in there

540

:

and clean up that pigsty of yours.

541

:

End quote.

542

:

He ignores the command.

543

:

One minute later, his foster dad Todd

comes out and says, quote, Get your ass

544

:

inside and do what your mother tells you.

545

:

End quote.

546

:

He again ignores this direction

and takes off with his friend.

547

:

This is going to be John's theme

throughout the film as he's going

548

:

to be faced with these calls of

duty and his emotional shift.

549

:

emotional tug of war, the back and forth

are going to be what is required of him.

550

:

Does he follow his call of

duty or does he ignore it?

551

:

And right off the bat, that shows you

where he is in this state of mind.

552

:

12 minutes in he bucks authority.

553

:

He doesn't do what he's told.

554

:

He's, I want to be my

own person kind of thing.

555

:

And you'll see as the movie

progresses, how that starts to change.

556

:

Chris: Yeah.

557

:

All right.

558

:

And I would say in that, in that part

there, they, As a storyteller, they did,

559

:

he did a pretty good job telling the

audience, if they've never seen the first

560

:

movie, Oh, these are foster parents.

561

:

Yes.

562

:

He's not being raised by his mom.

563

:

Jerome: Right, because that, right

after he says get in there and do what

564

:

your mother tells you, John actually

says, she's not my mother, Todd.

565

:

Yeah.

566

:

So that tells you right there.

567

:

And he puts some stank on Todd.

568

:

Yeah, I was like, oh, that's shit.

569

:

So, yeah.

570

:

So there you go.

571

:

Number two of the four

point push, Catalyst.

572

:

After all main characters are introduced,

and they do it pretty cleanly, it

573

:

all happens in four straight scenes.

574

:

The T 800 arrives.

575

:

And then they have the biker scene.

576

:

The T 1000 arrives.

577

:

Then we have the intro to

John and his foster parents.

578

:

The very next scene after that is

Sarah Connor at the Pescadero Mental

579

:

Hospital for the Criminally Insane.

580

:

We meet all the main characters

in four straight scenes.

581

:

Right, right.

582

:

So the catalyst is the T 1000

goes to John's foster parents

583

:

and gets a picture of him.

584

:

This officially begins the hunt

because now he knows where they is

585

:

and he knows what he looks like.

586

:

Debate begins.

587

:

If there's a debate, it's John's

because from about the 16 minute mark

588

:

until the 33 minute mark, all in the

first act, there's this long drawn out

589

:

chase sequence where John isn't really

sure if the cop Who's really the T

590

:

1000 or the biker looking guy who's

really the T 800 are friends or foes.

591

:

He thinks they're both trying to kill him,

592

:

Chris: right?

593

:

Jerome: So he doesn't know

what's going on at this point.

594

:

Chris: Well at first I think he

assumed the cop was just trying to

595

:

bust him for stealing his ATM money.

596

:

Jerome: Sure, absolutely.

597

:

And then he sees a biker with

a shotgun walking towards him

598

:

and he's like, What the fuck?

599

:

Should I go to the cop now?

600

:

Like, you know, this guy's

gonna try to kill me.

601

:

Uh, For all he knows, the biker

with the shotgun is the kids, is the

602

:

credit card that he stole, right?

603

:

So he's probably thinking, oh

fuck, maybe the cop will help

604

:

save me in this situation.

605

:

We don't have just an initial face

off between the two Terminators, we

606

:

have an Awesome hallway fight where

they're shoving each other through

607

:

concrete walls and then it goes

on to this chase that originates

608

:

at the mall and ends up in the L.

609

:

A.

610

:

canal system.

611

:

Pretty elaborate 20 minute sequence there.

612

:

Break into two.

613

:

At the 34 minute mark, John is

officially introduced to the soldier

614

:

he sent as an adult in the future.

615

:

The T 800.

616

:

For phonetic reasons from here on out,

I'm just going to call him Arnold.

617

:

Okay.

618

:

Instead of the T 800.

619

:

Chris: Yeah.

620

:

Jerome: Um.

621

:

Arnold reveals he was sent as protection

from the other Terminator, the T

622

:

1000 and this puts us officially

into Act 2, because now it's

623

:

John's upside down world, right?

624

:

The world he knew up till

now is completely changed.

625

:

Alright, funny games.

626

:

One of the first orders of business

is John wants to warn his foster

627

:

parents that they're in danger.

628

:

This is a funny phone scene.

629

:

I love this scene in the payphone

and it's actually spawned memes

630

:

that like and, and I see them.

631

:

So for anyone that doesn't know, He calls

home to tell his foster parents are dead.

632

:

It's he's thinks something's up

because they're being nice to him.

633

:

It seems odd They're never night or at

least the mom the mom's never nice to

634

:

him the dogs barking in the background

so Arnold starts to mimic his voice

635

:

and talking to The mom the foster

mom who he thinks is the foster mom

636

:

and he says what's the dog's name?

637

:

Max and he goes Janelle,

what's wrong with wolfie?

638

:

She's all Wolfe's fine, hun.

639

:

He immediately hangs up the phone.

640

:

Your foster parents are dead

like, like he just knows, right?

641

:

She failed the test.

642

:

So the main memes I've been

seeing are on this Seinfeld

643

:

Facebook page that I watch a lot.

644

:

Oh really?

645

:

And it sets it up like they ask a

question over the phone, a Seinfeld

646

:

question, and when the mom doesn't

know it, they hang up and they're,

647

:

your foster parents are dead like if

they don't know the Seinfeld quote.

648

:

Chris: So

649

:

Jerome: it's great.

650

:

But anyway, so it's a pretty funny scene.

651

:

Sad if you're friends of Janelle and Todd.

652

:

Well,

653

:

Chris: and they actually

show how stepdad dies.

654

:

Jerome: Yeah.

655

:

Yeah.

656

:

The stepdad hasn't died yet.

657

:

You can hear it though.

658

:

You can hear it.

659

:

Oh yeah.

660

:

The sound, it sounds like a

knife going through cantaloupe.

661

:

Like yeah.

662

:

There's a little blade

right through his head.

663

:

All right, anyway, so in this moment,

after finding out that they're dead,

664

:

Arnold actually gives a praise of the

killer speech, which we've talked about

665

:

in previous podcasts regarding the T 1000.

666

:

John says, you're telling me this

thing can imitate anything it touches?

667

:

Arnold responds, quote, anything

it samples by physical touch.

668

:

Only an object of equal size.

669

:

It can't form complex machines.

670

:

Guns and explosives have

chemicals, moving parts.

671

:

It doesn't work that way.

672

:

But it can form solid metal shapes.

673

:

Knives and stabbing weapons end quote.

674

:

This is perfect because it sets up

for the audience what the rules are

675

:

Chris: Yeah,

676

:

Jerome: right

677

:

Chris: what they

678

:

Jerome: can

679

:

Chris: and can't get away with the thing.

680

:

Jesse had a problem with that

She's like, wait a minute.

681

:

It can't do complex things, but it

can imitate people and their voices

682

:

Jerome: Yeah, but that's not

metal does doesn't that's not

683

:

a mechanic nothing machinery.

684

:

It's it's organic.

685

:

Yeah details

686

:

So Anyway, this is going to be important

when we meet up with Sarah later.

687

:

Speak of the devil, the B Story!

688

:

Speaking of Sarah, at about the

39 minute mark, Sarah, who has

689

:

already been introduced as a

character, she kind of gets revisited

690

:

here, this time as the B Story.

691

:

She's the B Story because she's going

to help John achieve his spiritual goal.

692

:

In this scene, they show her the pictures

of Arnold, both in:

693

:

They also tell her That her son

is missing, and that his foster

694

:

parents have been murdered.

695

:

Here's the first plot problem I have.

696

:

And this has always stood out to me.

697

:

One thing that's always stood out

to me about this particular scene.

698

:

Doesn't Dr.

699

:

Silberman believe any of her story now?

700

:

I know.

701

:

I mean, he sees the same

702

:

Chris: exact thing.

703

:

He sees the pictures.

704

:

Because he was there in the first movie.

705

:

Jerome: Right!

706

:

He was in 19 He was in

that police station!

707

:

Yeah, he left right Didn't he pass Arnold?

708

:

He passes him!

709

:

Yeah.

710

:

He walks in and gives his

famous I'll be back line.

711

:

Silberman's only alive

because he left for the day.

712

:

So anyway, he sees these pictures of him.

713

:

He sees the pictures of

him at the mall that day.

714

:

The cop says, We know

you know who this guy is.

715

:

Your son is missing, and his

foster parents have been murdered.

716

:

He uses the words murdered.

717

:

Chris: Yeah.

718

:

Jerome: We know this guy is involved.

719

:

Chris: This is a quote.

720

:

If I was the doctor, I would have

been like, I would have been having

721

:

PTSD flashbacks because I knew what

happened at that police station.

722

:

And he knew all those cops.

723

:

Yeah, he knew all the cops.

724

:

Yeah.

725

:

So, and then you see that guy

alive, killing people today.

726

:

He

727

:

Jerome: murdered 17 police

officers that night, he says.

728

:

Men with families.

729

:

And in the background is Silberman

like, yeah, yeah, I was there.

730

:

Like, he didn't say anything.

731

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

732

:

You think he would have been

like, I know, I was there.

733

:

Like, holy shit, is it possible

Sarah's telling the truth?

734

:

Yeah.

735

:

The kid's foster parents have been

murdered, and the cop says, we

736

:

know this guy had something to do

with it, or this guy's involved.

737

:

And Silberman doesn't even look!

738

:

Yeah.

739

:

He's just walking around in

the background like nothing.

740

:

And then what did I write down here?

741

:

You would think, To the cops.

742

:

Oh, no, he actually says to the cops.

743

:

This is a quote.

744

:

No, it's in that quote.

745

:

I paraphrased.

746

:

He basically says sorry

guys, like sorry guys.

747

:

I wish I could help you out.

748

:

Yeah She's been getting more

disconnected from reality

749

:

Like, are you a fucking moron?

750

:

You must be the dumbest

doctor that ever lived.

751

:

Right.

752

:

So, and I mean, I get it.

753

:

And here's the other thing.

754

:

I know that Sarah's, like, acting like

she's catatonic so that they think she's

755

:

nuts and she can steal the paperclip

and it's all part of her escape.

756

:

But how hard must it have been for

her to hold in, you know she wanted

757

:

to look at Silberman and be like, Do

you fucking see now, you dumb fuck?

758

:

I told you this guy existed!

759

:

Reese told you this guy existed!

760

:

Are you stupid?

761

:

Now my son is missing and his

parents, his false parents are dead.

762

:

Yeah.

763

:

Do you see now I was telling the truth?

764

:

Like, she had to hold all that in.

765

:

You know she wanted to let that shit out.

766

:

Oh yeah.

767

:

But anyway.

768

:

Alright, more fun and games around

42 minutes in, John wants to go

769

:

get his mom and Arnold tells him

it's a bad idea because the T

770

:

1000 is likely to meet them there.

771

:

He orders him to go.

772

:

And from then, from that

moment, from 42 minutes in.

773

:

Until the one hour mark, so a good

20 minutes, there's another elaborate

774

:

action sequence of Sarah freeing

herself, and the T:

775

:

hospital, John and Arnold meeting up

there, and this big rescue escape scene.

776

:

One of the things T2 does right, And quite

frankly, a lot of action films do wrong.

777

:

It's, it's a thing with Cameron.

778

:

He's always been really good at this.

779

:

His action sequences are fucking dialed.

780

:

Yeah.

781

:

Jerome: Like, they might take 20

minutes, but it's edgy, you see.

782

:

Most action films can't pull

off a 20 minute action scene.

783

:

Right.

784

:

Right?

785

:

It either gets boring, or it's

a one trick pony, or you just

786

:

kinda, you know, whatever.

787

:

His, there's so many different

elements to his action sequences,

788

:

like, like the, like the one we

talked about already in the mall.

789

:

It starts at the mall.

790

:

Then it gets into the

fucking canal system in L.

791

:

A.,

792

:

you know what I mean?

793

:

Like, it starts on foot, but

then they get on motorcycles,

794

:

like, you know what I mean?

795

:

Like, it's just, and the T 1000 gets

into a rig, you know what I mean?

796

:

With

797

:

Chris: liquid, what,

798

:

Jerome: nitrogen?

799

:

Oh, that one's later, that one's later.

800

:

Oh, yeah.

801

:

But but, but yeah, so you see my point,

like, when, when Cameron sets out to do an

802

:

action sequence, that fucker's gonna last

20 to 30 minutes, like, it's a big one.

803

:

Okay, that takes us to the midpoint scene.

804

:

About one hour and seven minutes

in, they're seemingly safe now.

805

:

They're heading for the south.

806

:

Somewhat safe on their way south of

the border, Sarah asks about the man

807

:

who created Cyberdyne, Miles Dyson.

808

:

And Arnold lays it all out.

809

:

He has no problem rolling on this guy.

810

:

He just tells her, tells her

everything he needs to know.

811

:

Uh, Bad guys closing in about an hour

and 18 minutes in Sarah has a nightmare

812

:

about judgment day and it sets her

off on her mission to take out Dyson

813

:

for almost the next hour hour again.

814

:

There is a lot of action.

815

:

And yet, for all these great

action sequences, we're gonna now

816

:

get into some more plot flaws.

817

:

John and Arnold attempt to stop

Sarah while the T:

818

:

is the best chance to find them

and he goes to Dyson's place.

819

:

They all go to Mexico?

820

:

And back?

821

:

Over a day and a half, maybe

two days, and they still beat

822

:

the T 1000 to Dyson's place?

823

:

Yeah, that's a problem.

824

:

What the fuck was he

doing this whole time?

825

:

Crawling?

826

:

He got himself a motorcycle

right after the mental hospital.

827

:

He stole it from the cop.

828

:

Yeah.

829

:

Jerome: So where the hell's he been?

830

:

What's he been doing?

831

:

But anyway, alright, that's

plot issue number one.

832

:

Riding around the desert, I guess.

833

:

Jerome: Riding around,

just looking for nobody.

834

:

At this point, they convince Dyson that

he has to destroy all his research.

835

:

By the way, there's a pretty cool sequence

where they get to Dyson's house and

836

:

Arnold cuts the skin off his arm to show

that the work he's doing, the research

837

:

he's doing is going to evolve into this

AI machines you know, monster program

838

:

that's going to take over the world.

839

:

Chris: I gotta, I gotta be

honest, watch, this is the first

840

:

time I've watched this movie.

841

:

Since chat GPT came out.

842

:

Okay.

843

:

Jerome: It's scary, isn't it?

844

:

Chris: Yeah, I almost

had an anxiety attack.

845

:

I was like, I mean, we're watching,

you know, this week we're watching

846

:

Elon Musk unveil his new robots.

847

:

His AI robots, and I'm like,

what, what are we doing?

848

:

Jerome: Yeah.

849

:

Chris: What are we doing?

850

:

Jerome: It's, it's like, I

saw a meme about that too.

851

:

Somebody, there was like a headline

about Elon Musk and his AI.

852

:

And then the first comment

was, there's literally four or

853

:

five Terminator movies on why

854

:

this is a bad idea.

855

:

Chris: And he makes a joke

about it when he unveiled them.

856

:

Do you hear that?

857

:

No, I didn't hear that.

858

:

He's like, yeah, they're pretty cool as

long as they don't become Terminators.

859

:

Ha ha ha.

860

:

And I'm like.

861

:

You frickin idiot.

862

:

Jerome: Wow.

863

:

Good God.

864

:

It's inevitable that AI will

become self aware, right?

865

:

Like, they know this, right?

866

:

Unless they're putting a feature

in there that makes them dumb.

867

:

But, how can you do that?

868

:

But anyway, alright.

869

:

Where did I leave off here?

870

:

Alright, at Cyberdyne,

Here's, oh, okay, wait.

871

:

So they convince Dyson that he has

to destroy all his research, right?

872

:

And they gotta go to his place and,

and Burn all the research or whatever.

873

:

So now they're at Cyberdyne.

874

:

They get inside and they

force their way into the lab.

875

:

Here's some more plot holes.

876

:

The whole building is on lockdown, right?

877

:

They hit the alarm when they know the

one cop is tied up and the security

878

:

guard is tied up in the bathroom.

879

:

They hit the alarm.

880

:

It's a building's on lockdown, right?

881

:

Dyson tries to use his code.

882

:

He's like, Oh, I can't use my code.

883

:

The building's on lockdown.

884

:

Yet, the two turning of

the keys thing still works.

885

:

Yeah.

886

:

Where he gives a key to John.

887

:

He's like, Okay, we have to turn

at the same time for this to open.

888

:

Wouldn't that be on lockdown too?

889

:

Chris: Yeah, you'd think

everything would be.

890

:

They use the elevators!

891

:

Especially the thing that's hypersensitive

to, you know, turning a key.

892

:

Yeah, and when they go to leave, they

893

:

Jerome: get on an elevator!

894

:

Wouldn't those be on lockdown too?

895

:

Then, they rig the entire place with

explosives, including drums of gasoline.

896

:

Where the fuck did they get all this from?

897

:

I thought the same thing.

898

:

They couldn't have got it from Enrique in

Mexico because A, he's not storing that

899

:

shit with all those guns down below in a

hot basement somewhere under the desert.

900

:

Two, even if he did have it

somewhere else, they don't

901

:

bring it with them in the car.

902

:

Right.

903

:

In the station wagon.

904

:

They couldn't fit all

that in a station wagon.

905

:

So where did all that shit come from?

906

:

It just arrives.

907

:

It's just there.

908

:

Any thoughts?

909

:

No.

910

:

I was, I was hoping you would tell me.

911

:

No, I was scratching my head.

912

:

Alright.

913

:

It's ridiculous.

914

:

So anyway, okay.

915

:

So they have the big explosion,

Cyberdyne is destroyed.

916

:

And here's the, now we're gonna have

several of these, but as an audience

917

:

member, we already know the answer.

918

:

But as an audience member, if you're

watching this for the first time, wouldn't

919

:

you be like, wait a minute, wait a second.

920

:

At this moment, wouldn't the T

:

921

:

If they destroyed.

922

:

The future making of these machines,

they would have disappeared.

923

:

Well, it depends on

924

:

Chris: which, which theory of

time travel you subscribe to.

925

:

Okay.

926

:

So, so again, you have

back to the futurist.

927

:

Jerome: We kind of already know a little

bit that we're going to get to, but as an

928

:

audience member, that would, could be a

thought of why didn't they just disappear?

929

:

And did the main characters realize,

Hey, wait they didn't disappear.

930

:

Yeah, right.

931

:

Something's not over yet.

932

:

Like, it's not over yet.

933

:

Right?

934

:

It's not over yet.

935

:

And even at Dyson's house, I think the

wife says, I notated here, the wife says,

936

:

aren't we changing the future right now?

937

:

And he says, yes, I'm, I'm, no way I

can go into work tomorrow, you know.

938

:

And that's when Arnold says,

well, that's not enough.

939

:

Nobody can follow your work.

940

:

So that's why they decide

to go and blow it up.

941

:

Alright, more action sequence now as

y have to get away from the T:

942

:

and all the cops as they make their

escape from the Cyberdyne building.

943

:

This leads to the arrival at the

Steel Foundry as the truck of

944

:

nitroglycerin crashes and freezes.

945

:

The T 1000, it was liquid

946

:

Chris: nitrogen.

947

:

I don't think it was nitroglycerin.

948

:

Oh,

949

:

Jerome: what did I say?

950

:

Nitroglycerin, I meant

to say liquid nitrogen.

951

:

It would've blew up real

big if it was nitroglycerin,

952

:

, . Arnold gets the, gets the drop, his

famous line Abta baby before shooting

953

:

the frozen T 1000 into a bunch of

thousand little pieces, of course,

954

:

because the heat in the steel foundry.

955

:

They melt and reform back as the T 1000.

956

:

I remember when I was shit, I had

to, I was 16 years old or turning

957

:

16 when I saw this in the theater.

958

:

And I remember thinking when he

dropped that line, we're already

959

:

almost two hours in when he shot it.

960

:

Well, first of all, when it

froze, I was like, Oh, that's it.

961

:

That's how they kill them.

962

:

Chris: Yeah.

963

:

Jerome: Right?

964

:

He's frozen.

965

:

He can't move now.

966

:

He can't do anything.

967

:

And I remember thinking, it only

takes a split second before Arnold

968

:

shoots him, that I remember thinking

for a split second, what the

969

:

hell are they gonna do with him?

970

:

Like, you can't put him

anywhere where he's gonna fall.

971

:

Like, is he just gonna be

stuck like that forever?

972

:

And then Arnold gives the line and

shoots him and he gets shattered into a

973

:

thousand pieces and I thought, awesome!

974

:

But How are you going to keep those

pieces from coming back together?

975

:

And then they show the heat and the pieces

are melting and he's starting to form.

976

:

And when he stands up again, I remember

thinking, they can't kill this thing.

977

:

There's nothing they can do.

978

:

Now my 16 year old idiot brain didn't

realize they're surrounded by lava.

979

:

Chris: So

980

:

Jerome: maybe that will have

something to do with it.

981

:

But instead I'm thinking, They

can't, they can't kill this guy.

982

:

There's, there's nothing they can do.

983

:

He just fucking reforms again.

984

:

So so that was done very well

because that's a tense scene.

985

:

When she's hurt, Sarah's hurt, they're

trying to get her out of the truck.

986

:

But all the little liquid metal

pieces are starting to come together.

987

:

Yeah.

988

:

And it's already forming up before

they're even out of the damn truck.

989

:

It's like move man, get going.

990

:

Like it's, it's done very well.

991

:

The suspense of that scene

is shot very, very well.

992

:

All right.

993

:

More cat and mouse fight sequences

after that but of course with

994

:

that comes more plot issues.

995

:

So the T 1000 has Sarah, right, has her

dead to rights, he's about to kill her.

996

:

He puts his little finger poker thing

through her arm, and to torture her,

997

:

and he's like, I know this hurts,

you know, and he's digging in there.

998

:

And then he says, call to John.

999

:

Yeah, I know.

:

00:40:53,221 --> 00:40:54,341

I said the same thing.

:

00:40:54,681 --> 00:40:56,051

He could do it.

:

00:40:57,021 --> 00:40:58,431

Why doesn't he call for John?

:

00:40:58,701 --> 00:41:02,071

You almost want Sarah to

say, and she says, fuck you.

:

00:41:02,281 --> 00:41:05,011

But instead she should

have said do it yourself.

:

00:41:05,011 --> 00:41:06,298

Like what?

:

00:41:06,298 --> 00:41:08,051

What do you need me to do it for?

:

00:41:08,061 --> 00:41:08,381

Yes.

:

00:41:08,391 --> 00:41:09,741

He's heard her voice.

:

00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:10,151

Yeah.

:

00:41:10,151 --> 00:41:10,911

Like what the fuck?

:

00:41:10,921 --> 00:41:12,471

So yeah, obviously he can mimic her.

:

00:41:12,471 --> 00:41:13,241

He could do it himself.

:

00:41:13,241 --> 00:41:13,921

He just doesn't.

:

00:41:14,321 --> 00:41:14,741

Of course.

:

00:41:14,761 --> 00:41:15,061

Arnold.

:

00:41:15,061 --> 00:41:16,671

And then, and then they end up doing it.

:

00:41:16,761 --> 00:41:18,881

And if a couple scenes later, Oh, hang on.

:

00:41:18,911 --> 00:41:19,991

We're right there.

:

00:41:20,041 --> 00:41:21,101

I know we're right there.

:

00:41:21,441 --> 00:41:26,181

So of course Arnold intervenes

and he saves Sarah's life and

:

00:41:26,191 --> 00:41:27,401

they begin fighting again.

:

00:41:27,661 --> 00:41:30,051

And this time it's going to bring

us to our all is lost scene at

:

00:41:30,051 --> 00:41:31,421

the two hour, two minute mark.

:

00:41:31,751 --> 00:41:33,081

The T:

:

00:41:34,171 --> 00:41:37,451

In the belief that he has

finally gotten rid of the T 800.

:

00:41:37,461 --> 00:41:43,331

He smashes the shit out of

Arnold, and shoves a metal rod,

:

00:41:43,641 --> 00:41:45,091

like right through his body.

:

00:41:45,351 --> 00:41:46,071

Yeah, so he's stuck.

:

00:41:46,081 --> 00:41:50,391

All systems fail, well he's stuck,

but all systems are failing, and

:

00:41:50,391 --> 00:41:52,021

the light in his eye goes out.

:

00:41:52,391 --> 00:41:54,481

As an audience member You think he died.

:

00:41:54,781 --> 00:41:55,901

All is lost, right?

:

00:41:56,121 --> 00:42:00,031

Because if the T 800 is dead, who

the fuck's gonna save these two?

:

00:42:00,141 --> 00:42:00,451

Right?

:

00:42:00,491 --> 00:42:00,941

They can't.

:

00:42:00,951 --> 00:42:01,911

They're no match.

:

00:42:02,071 --> 00:42:02,371

Yeah.

:

00:42:02,661 --> 00:42:03,951

They are no match for the T:

:

00:42:04,591 --> 00:42:08,181

Dark Knight of the Soul, John, who's

hiding, and Sarah, who's reloading

:

00:42:08,181 --> 00:42:11,161

her shotgun knows at this point

that they're probably screwed.

:

00:42:11,461 --> 00:42:11,731

Right?

:

00:42:11,771 --> 00:42:12,371

They're fucked.

:

00:42:12,611 --> 00:42:12,751

Yeah.

:

00:42:12,801 --> 00:42:14,321

If Arnold's gone, what chance do we have?

:

00:42:14,661 --> 00:42:15,721

Break into three.

:

00:42:15,811 --> 00:42:16,401

But then!

:

00:42:17,681 --> 00:42:20,581

The light in Arnold's eyes

starts to come back on again.

:

00:42:20,591 --> 00:42:21,561

Chris: Backup battery.

:

00:42:21,571 --> 00:42:23,321

Jerome: Backup battery plan!

:

00:42:23,341 --> 00:42:24,781

Alternate power!

:

00:42:25,216 --> 00:42:29,466

He opens his eyes, he gets up, and it's

kind of funny because Arnold's acting

:

00:42:29,466 --> 00:42:33,616

here is kind of, it's not funny, but it

kind of serves like when he wakes up,

:

00:42:33,776 --> 00:42:35,476

he's looking around like, where is he?

:

00:42:35,486 --> 00:42:38,226

And he's like, oh shit, I'm

nailed down by this pole.

:

00:42:38,416 --> 00:42:39,746

I better take this pole out.

:

00:42:40,046 --> 00:42:40,556

You know what I mean?

:

00:42:40,556 --> 00:42:41,646

So he does that first.

:

00:42:42,276 --> 00:42:45,966

And then he grabs his grenade launcher,

which has one grenade left, of course.

:

00:42:46,426 --> 00:42:49,916

And he arrives, you know, he

gets up, ready to fight again.

:

00:42:50,166 --> 00:42:51,746

Five point finale, here we go!

:

00:42:52,126 --> 00:42:52,886

Hold on, hold on, I wanted to,

:

00:42:53,076 --> 00:42:55,756

Chris: Identify another

plot hole from that scene.

:

00:42:56,066 --> 00:42:56,696

Jerome: Oh, okay, go for it.

:

00:42:58,541 --> 00:43:00,351

Chris: His arm is in the machinery.

:

00:43:00,431 --> 00:43:00,851

Jerome: Okay.

:

00:43:00,851 --> 00:43:01,181

Okay.

:

00:43:01,181 --> 00:43:03,411

So I was going to get to that later,

but okay, we can talk about it.

:

00:43:03,681 --> 00:43:06,801

Chris: Well, it's, I mean, you know,

they make this big deal at the end in

:

00:43:07,131 --> 00:43:10,261

a couple of scenes about destroying

everything, all the evidence.

:

00:43:10,271 --> 00:43:11,661

Jerome: That's what I was

going to mention later.

:

00:43:11,681 --> 00:43:12,021

So,

:

00:43:12,021 --> 00:43:12,496

Chris: yeah,

:

00:43:12,496 --> 00:43:16,471

Jerome: so he does leave his arm

jammed into gears and he has to

:

00:43:16,481 --> 00:43:19,641

detach from it in order to break free.

:

00:43:19,721 --> 00:43:21,451

That actually happens before.

:

00:43:22,221 --> 00:43:25,891

All of this because when he

saves Sarah Connor's life,

:

00:43:26,131 --> 00:43:27,831

he's already at one arm, right?

:

00:43:28,281 --> 00:43:30,271

So yeah, his arm does get left behind.

:

00:43:30,281 --> 00:43:31,981

That's a little plot

twist there for the end.

:

00:43:32,301 --> 00:43:34,081

I wouldn't say it's a plot flaw.

:

00:43:34,191 --> 00:43:38,091

Well, it's a plot twist

if you want to make a T3.

:

00:43:38,391 --> 00:43:41,111

It's a plot flaw at the end.

:

00:43:41,121 --> 00:43:42,331

And we're about to get to that right now.

:

00:43:43,341 --> 00:43:43,671

Alright.

:

00:43:44,131 --> 00:43:47,551

Gathering the team, Sarah calls

out to John to join forces.

:

00:43:47,631 --> 00:43:52,871

Of course, this is not really Sarah,

as the T:

:

00:43:53,051 --> 00:43:57,231

seemed like he didn't know how to

imitate Sarah, now he's imitating Sarah.

:

00:43:57,781 --> 00:43:58,121

Okay.

:

00:43:58,471 --> 00:44:01,551

Now, you could argue, there

is an argument to be made.

:

00:44:02,411 --> 00:44:03,611

In fact, I just thought of this.

:

00:44:04,461 --> 00:44:07,691

It says he has to come

into contact with somebody.

:

00:44:08,131 --> 00:44:08,951

He has to touch them.

:

00:44:09,501 --> 00:44:12,911

So he couldn't call out, he

couldn't mimic her until he stuck

:

00:44:12,911 --> 00:44:14,301

his finger through her shoulder.

:

00:44:14,961 --> 00:44:15,421

Chris: Okay.

:

00:44:15,691 --> 00:44:19,061

Jerome: But maybe at that point though,

he would have done it immediately, right?

:

00:44:19,111 --> 00:44:19,321

Yeah,

:

00:44:19,321 --> 00:44:19,871

Chris: yeah, yeah.

:

00:44:19,921 --> 00:44:22,521

Jerome: Killed her, and then

immediately become Sarah.

:

00:44:22,581 --> 00:44:22,921

Right.

:

00:44:23,351 --> 00:44:24,371

But anyway, okay.

:

00:44:25,271 --> 00:44:27,811

We're trying to help, we're trying to

help, we're trying to save the plot flaws.

:

00:44:28,251 --> 00:44:28,501

Okay.

:

00:44:29,001 --> 00:44:29,931

Execution of the plan.

:

00:44:29,951 --> 00:44:34,351

The real Sarah thwarts the T:

plan by appearing behind the fake

:

00:44:34,351 --> 00:44:35,951

Sarah and telling John to get down.

:

00:44:36,301 --> 00:44:41,645

She unloads the shotgun shells one

after another at the T:

:

00:44:41,645 --> 00:44:45,121

is a great moment because he's

getting closer and closer to where

:

00:44:45,121 --> 00:44:46,861

he might fall off into the lava.

:

00:44:47,261 --> 00:44:49,131

And she's cocking it with her one arm.

:

00:44:49,491 --> 00:44:50,041

Chris: Blast,

:

00:44:50,061 --> 00:44:52,921

Jerome: cock, blast, cock,

blast, all the way down.

:

00:44:53,366 --> 00:44:57,126

I should say pump, pump and blast,

pump and blast, all the way down

:

00:44:57,126 --> 00:45:01,206

to where he, one more will do

it, and she runs out of bullets.

:

00:45:01,226 --> 00:45:03,736

Now wait, I was gonna, oh that

was my Hightower Surprise, sorry.

:

00:45:03,936 --> 00:45:06,186

So, she's got him,

she's got it won, right?

:

00:45:06,196 --> 00:45:07,396

She's about to win!

:

00:45:07,816 --> 00:45:09,916

And the Hightower Surprise,

she ran out of bullets.

:

00:45:10,386 --> 00:45:17,116

So or shells rather, she not only, does

she only need one more round to push him

:

00:45:17,116 --> 00:45:22,036

over the edge, but worse, she watches him.

:

00:45:22,436 --> 00:45:27,176

Heal again, like she did with

the frozen liquid metal pieces.

:

00:45:27,416 --> 00:45:28,706

He just simply heals up.

:

00:45:28,856 --> 00:45:30,936

She was fucking his shit

up for a minute there.

:

00:45:31,266 --> 00:45:37,396

But then he just heals like nothing, and

then does this real cocky finger wag.

:

00:45:37,956 --> 00:45:41,126

Like, no, no, no, you look

like Dikemi Mutombo out there.

:

00:45:41,136 --> 00:45:42,526

No, no, no, no, no.

:

00:45:43,056 --> 00:45:46,506

And, It's, it's, it's definitely his

best punk move of the whole movie, like

:

00:45:46,526 --> 00:45:51,586

that's like the only time he is kind of

talking shit, is he does that, right, he

:

00:45:51,586 --> 00:45:56,646

does the little finger wag dig down deep,

she's done, right, she knows she's done

:

00:45:56,646 --> 00:46:01,776

now, she's out of bullets, he's healed

up, John comes running behind her, and

:

00:46:01,806 --> 00:46:04,726

they turn like they're gonna run, but

they, she's fucking wounded, she can't

:

00:46:04,726 --> 00:46:08,261

really move, they know they're done,

without anything left, right, right.

:

00:46:08,421 --> 00:46:12,401

All they have really to do is try to run,

but he's but five, six feet behind them.

:

00:46:13,071 --> 00:46:13,641

It's over.

:

00:46:14,631 --> 00:46:15,941

Execution of the new plan!

:

00:46:16,231 --> 00:46:17,531

Here comes Arnold!

:

00:46:17,831 --> 00:46:19,601

One last grenade left.

:

00:46:19,991 --> 00:46:21,771

They see him coming over the thing.

:

00:46:21,771 --> 00:46:23,571

He's riding a gear because

he's all fucked up.

:

00:46:23,571 --> 00:46:24,131

He can barely move.

:

00:46:24,471 --> 00:46:25,291

They hit the ground.

:

00:46:25,501 --> 00:46:26,701

Arnold pulls the trigger.

:

00:46:26,841 --> 00:46:27,641

Boom!

:

00:46:27,661 --> 00:46:31,471

The T:

of it, loses his balance and falls

:

00:46:31,471 --> 00:46:33,571

into the lava to be destroyed.

:

00:46:34,111 --> 00:46:34,191

Woo!

:

00:46:34,881 --> 00:46:35,441

Go Arnold.

:

00:46:36,406 --> 00:46:37,476

I remember being in the theater, man.

:

00:46:37,476 --> 00:46:39,656

The whole crowd went

berserker when that happened.

:

00:46:40,036 --> 00:46:40,616

Resolution.

:

00:46:40,616 --> 00:46:43,896

We have a nice emotional wrap up

now as they throw the arm and the

:

00:46:43,896 --> 00:46:45,966

chip into the lava, of course.

:

00:46:46,606 --> 00:46:48,516

This gets to the part you

were just talking about.

:

00:46:48,826 --> 00:46:53,326

I said at this point as an audience

member, wouldn't Arnold disappear.

:

00:46:54,366 --> 00:46:54,766

Right.

:

00:46:55,336 --> 00:46:55,866

But.

:

00:46:56,646 --> 00:46:59,676

You realize wait a second

Arnold is still there.

:

00:46:59,686 --> 00:47:02,986

Yeah, so that means he's

the evidence, right?

:

00:47:03,006 --> 00:47:04,696

The chip in his head has to be destroyed

:

00:47:06,956 --> 00:47:11,556

But still the arm is left behind Anyone

might not remember that the arm is left

:

00:47:11,556 --> 00:47:15,676

behind which is why we have a t3 and I

think in t3 They actually say that don't

:

00:47:15,676 --> 00:47:17,906

they that you can't stop Judgment Day.

:

00:47:17,906 --> 00:47:22,556

All you can do is delay it and

their actions Delayed it by

:

00:47:22,566 --> 00:47:27,936

decades like the kid is older And

it's still not Judgment Day yet.

:

00:47:27,946 --> 00:47:30,716

Judgment Day was supposed to

be, when was it supposed to be?

:

00:47:30,746 --> 00:47:31,476

97.

:

00:47:33,056 --> 00:47:33,416

Okay.

:

00:47:33,466 --> 00:47:34,106

97.

:

00:47:34,156 --> 00:47:38,046

In T3 it gets pushed way, like 10

years later or something like that.

:

00:47:38,046 --> 00:47:38,416

Yeah.

:

00:47:38,416 --> 00:47:40,806

Because of what happens in this movie.

:

00:47:40,866 --> 00:47:41,086

Chris: Right.

:

00:47:41,106 --> 00:47:44,176

Jerome: They destroyed Cyberdyne,

they destroyed all the research,

:

00:47:44,366 --> 00:47:46,516

and they destroyed the arm

and the chip and everything.

:

00:47:46,586 --> 00:47:48,666

But the one arm was left behind.

:

00:47:48,686 --> 00:47:48,926

Yeah.

:

00:47:48,976 --> 00:47:50,396

Somebody found it.

:

00:47:50,686 --> 00:47:53,476

And they eventually Figured it out.

:

00:47:53,676 --> 00:47:55,286

Yeah, Elon Musk found the arm.

:

00:47:55,316 --> 00:47:55,816

That's what it was.

:

00:47:56,716 --> 00:48:01,786

All right, so There's

more on this in a second.

:

00:48:01,856 --> 00:48:05,036

I'm gonna get to my biggest problem

with the whole movie Okay, well not the

:

00:48:05,036 --> 00:48:09,126

whole movies my biggest problem with the

ending closing image the road now, right?

:

00:48:09,456 --> 00:48:13,826

This is the unknown future It's

the exact opposite of the opening

:

00:48:13,826 --> 00:48:15,596

image, which was the known future

:

00:48:17,906 --> 00:48:23,321

We have maybe the second worst line of

the movie in this part I'm gonna tell

:

00:48:23,321 --> 00:48:25,651

you what the worst one is in a minute,

but the number two line is right here.

:

00:48:27,881 --> 00:48:29,811

She first starts off with

a voiceover, which is fine.

:

00:48:30,041 --> 00:48:32,811

She says something about that

she's facing the unknown now

:

00:48:32,841 --> 00:48:34,221

for the first time with hope.

:

00:48:34,811 --> 00:48:35,131

Boom.

:

00:48:35,241 --> 00:48:35,921

End it right there.

:

00:48:35,931 --> 00:48:36,591

Roll the credits.

:

00:48:36,631 --> 00:48:37,411

Yeah, right.

:

00:48:37,571 --> 00:48:40,931

Instead, she tacks on what

we've talked about before that

:

00:48:40,941 --> 00:48:42,411

happened in the John Wick episode.

:

00:48:42,811 --> 00:48:48,201

She's gotta tack it on with, quote, If

a machine, a Terminator, can learn the

:

00:48:48,201 --> 00:48:50,781

value of human life, maybe we can too.

:

00:48:52,661 --> 00:48:53,451

Chris: A lesson.

:

00:48:53,941 --> 00:48:55,091

Do we need a lesson?

:

00:48:55,461 --> 00:48:59,561

Jerome: I do not need to be

preached to by James Cameron.

:

00:48:59,591 --> 00:48:59,891

Chris: Yeah,

:

00:48:59,891 --> 00:49:00,301

Jerome: right.

:

00:49:00,531 --> 00:49:03,501

He just showed me gratuitous

violence for two hours and

:

00:49:03,501 --> 00:49:04,421

he's going to tell me whatever.

:

00:49:04,511 --> 00:49:05,018

He's good at preaching.

:

00:49:05,018 --> 00:49:06,151

Have you seen Avatar?

:

00:49:06,231 --> 00:49:06,821

I mean, come on.

:

00:49:06,871 --> 00:49:07,311

Yes!

:

00:49:07,501 --> 00:49:08,321

Oh my god!

:

00:49:08,381 --> 00:49:08,691

at you.

:

00:49:10,311 --> 00:49:12,621

Anyway, but we mentioned in

the John Wick thing, right?

:

00:49:12,621 --> 00:49:15,561

When John Wick starts talking about

the dog was the symbol of his wife.

:

00:49:15,561 --> 00:49:16,541

We knew that!

:

00:49:16,541 --> 00:49:16,841

Yeah.

:

00:49:16,901 --> 00:49:18,051

You didn't have to tell us that.

:

00:49:18,051 --> 00:49:19,086

I hate when they have to explain it.

:

00:49:19,086 --> 00:49:20,496

Well,

:

00:49:20,496 --> 00:49:22,936

Chris: that's another part

I hated about this movie.

:

00:49:22,936 --> 00:49:25,966

It was a, it was a line

John Connor had early on.

:

00:49:26,826 --> 00:49:27,306

Jerome: Which one?

:

00:49:27,486 --> 00:49:32,646

Chris: It was it was after the after

Arnold got him and, and basically

:

00:49:32,646 --> 00:49:34,106

explained everything to him.

:

00:49:34,596 --> 00:49:34,796

Yeah.

:

00:49:34,796 --> 00:49:40,396

And he was sitting there and he's

like, oh man, all these years I

:

00:49:40,406 --> 00:49:42,276

thought my mom was crazy or something.

:

00:49:42,436 --> 00:49:42,816

Yeah.

:

00:49:42,826 --> 00:49:43,726

And she was right.

:

00:49:43,796 --> 00:49:45,216

He didn't have to say any of that.

:

00:49:45,606 --> 00:49:45,816

Yeah.

:

00:49:45,946 --> 00:49:46,566

We, we knew it.

:

00:49:46,941 --> 00:49:49,691

I didn't even include

that scene in my notes.

:

00:49:49,721 --> 00:49:50,061

Yeah.

:

00:49:50,161 --> 00:49:50,761

Because it's,

:

00:49:50,971 --> 00:49:52,531

Jerome: it's so, it's unnecessary.

:

00:49:52,541 --> 00:49:52,771

Yeah.

:

00:49:52,771 --> 00:49:53,081

It's an,

:

00:49:53,411 --> 00:49:54,861

Chris: that whole scene's unnecessary.

:

00:49:54,881 --> 00:49:56,411

I was like, irritated by it.

:

00:49:57,971 --> 00:49:59,161

Jerome: Yeah, plus he can't act.

:

00:50:01,161 --> 00:50:01,411

Come on.

:

00:50:01,411 --> 00:50:03,941

I mean, it was his first

movie, but leave him alone.

:

00:50:04,441 --> 00:50:04,861

All right.

:

00:50:05,336 --> 00:50:06,436

Notes on character.

:

00:50:06,596 --> 00:50:09,986

Blake Snyder has story patterns

in his second Save the Cat

:

00:50:09,986 --> 00:50:11,806

book that he calls genres.

:

00:50:11,816 --> 00:50:13,706

One of them is called buddy love.

:

00:50:14,036 --> 00:50:17,806

Sometimes used for romances, but also used

for buddy cop movies like Lethal Weapon.

:

00:50:18,186 --> 00:50:20,826

There are three main elements

to make a buddy love genre.

:

00:50:21,286 --> 00:50:22,936

First, an incomplete hero.

:

00:50:23,266 --> 00:50:24,396

Clearly John Connor.

:

00:50:25,096 --> 00:50:26,756

The second thing is a counterpart.

:

00:50:27,216 --> 00:50:28,466

Clearly the T 800.

:

00:50:29,176 --> 00:50:33,116

And the third thing is a

complication of their relationship.

:

00:50:33,126 --> 00:50:35,526

That's like the third thing

in this story pattern.

:

00:50:36,006 --> 00:50:37,066

Which for them is clear.

:

00:50:37,066 --> 00:50:39,296

It's the future of humanity

rests on their shoulders.

:

00:50:39,766 --> 00:50:42,316

So now when both characters arc.

:

00:50:42,366 --> 00:50:45,806

Chris: I would have said the, the,

the, the complication for John would

:

00:50:45,806 --> 00:50:50,466

have been that he didn't want the

Terminator, something that's made to kill.

:

00:50:51,851 --> 00:50:53,051

He didn't want him to kill.

:

00:50:53,261 --> 00:50:53,491

Yeah.

:

00:50:53,491 --> 00:50:53,691

But

:

00:50:53,921 --> 00:50:55,621

Jerome: that, but that's just one element.

:

00:50:55,681 --> 00:50:59,551

Like that's not, that's not the

overall problem of the story.

:

00:51:00,071 --> 00:51:04,941

So now when both characters arc,

instead of just like the lead, a lot

:

00:51:04,941 --> 00:51:07,901

of times the legal arc and the buddy.

:

00:51:08,171 --> 00:51:10,571

The buddy love, the counterpart

is just there to help them.

:

00:51:10,811 --> 00:51:13,611

But when both arc, it's

called a two hander.

:

00:51:14,461 --> 00:51:16,491

Sometimes there's a third person.

:

00:51:16,491 --> 00:51:19,771

And even in the case of when Harry

met Sally, there's four people.

:

00:51:20,271 --> 00:51:22,921

They're called a three

hander or a four four hander.

:

00:51:23,221 --> 00:51:29,261

So I actually think T2 is a buddy love

three hander because all three heroes.

:

00:51:29,981 --> 00:51:35,341

John, Arnold, and Sarah

Connor all arc in this film.

:

00:51:36,041 --> 00:51:36,891

So let's break it down.

:

00:51:36,941 --> 00:51:38,641

Alright, so we're gonna

start with the T 800.

:

00:51:38,851 --> 00:51:41,211

Because he's a machine, so he

should be the easiest one, right?

:

00:51:41,831 --> 00:51:44,611

It's actually the weakest character

arc because he's a machine, right?

:

00:51:44,611 --> 00:51:47,211

There's not a lot of human depth there.

:

00:51:47,521 --> 00:51:50,101

But Well, and he's following

orders from John Connor.

:

00:51:50,391 --> 00:51:52,841

He's following orders, but he

does say several times that

:

00:51:52,841 --> 00:51:54,251

he's a learning computer.

:

00:51:54,291 --> 00:51:54,501

Yeah.

:

00:51:54,531 --> 00:51:54,891

Right?

:

00:51:55,201 --> 00:51:55,591

Okay.

:

00:51:56,131 --> 00:52:01,501

So we do see him, for lack of a better

word, we see him grow throughout the film.

:

00:52:01,521 --> 00:52:04,721

He learns things like hasta la

vista, baby, and things like that.

:

00:52:05,021 --> 00:52:09,001

It gets a little over the top when

he picks up the minigun and smiles.

:

00:52:09,081 --> 00:52:11,221

I don't know if the

Terminator learned excitement.

:

00:52:11,611 --> 00:52:14,031

So, that I thought was

just done for the crowd.

:

00:52:14,401 --> 00:52:15,681

But then, even worse!

:

00:52:16,191 --> 00:52:19,851

After he kills the T:

delivers what I believe to be the

:

00:52:19,851 --> 00:52:21,831

worst line in the entire film.

:

00:52:22,331 --> 00:52:23,681

I need a vacation.

:

00:52:25,631 --> 00:52:26,711

The Terminator said that.

:

00:52:30,601 --> 00:52:31,821

I need a vacation.

:

00:52:32,791 --> 00:52:33,221

Yeah.

:

00:52:34,051 --> 00:52:34,391

Jerome: Okay.

:

00:52:34,391 --> 00:52:39,391

So, again, it was done for,

oh, so the audience can laugh.

:

00:52:39,391 --> 00:52:40,251

Ha ha ha ha.

:

00:52:40,331 --> 00:52:40,771

Okay.

:

00:52:41,111 --> 00:52:45,241

However, it is clear That as

a, as a character, he does arc.

:

00:52:45,241 --> 00:52:48,871

He learns humanity why you

can't just kill people.

:

00:52:48,881 --> 00:52:51,491

He says at the beginning, you

can't just go, John says, you can't

:

00:52:51,491 --> 00:52:52,351

just go around killing people.

:

00:52:52,361 --> 00:52:52,941

Why not?

:

00:52:53,001 --> 00:52:53,921

I'm a terminator.

:

00:52:53,941 --> 00:52:58,131

You know, like, but he teaches them

that there's value in human life, right?

:

00:52:58,171 --> 00:52:58,521

Chris: Sure,

:

00:52:58,521 --> 00:52:58,621

Jerome: sure.

:

00:52:58,621 --> 00:53:02,221

So and then he learns why humans

grow attached to themselves, why

:

00:53:02,221 --> 00:53:03,801

they grow attached to each other.

:

00:53:04,071 --> 00:53:09,361

And thus why people cry when

that attachment gets threatened.

:

00:53:09,631 --> 00:53:11,701

So he does arc for a cyborg.

:

00:53:11,701 --> 00:53:15,761

He does arc his tangible goal is

to protect john connor which by the

:

00:53:15,761 --> 00:53:17,566

midpoint They're on their way to Mexico.

:

00:53:17,566 --> 00:53:18,156

He's done that.

:

00:53:18,186 --> 00:53:19,356

He's pretty safe at this point.

:

00:53:19,996 --> 00:53:23,466

In fact, if they didn't ever return to

LA to stop Sarah from killing Dyson,

:

00:53:23,706 --> 00:53:25,316

the T:

:

00:53:25,596 --> 00:53:26,776

It may have never found him.

:

00:53:27,216 --> 00:53:31,206

His spiritual goal, which he did

not know he needed was to learn.

:

00:53:31,711 --> 00:53:33,251

The humanity aspect, right?

:

00:53:33,431 --> 00:53:34,711

That there is value to human life.

:

00:53:34,941 --> 00:53:35,241

All right.

:

00:53:35,251 --> 00:53:38,131

So we're going to segue that into

Sarah because her arc is very, very

:

00:53:38,141 --> 00:53:40,611

similar to the T1 T T eight hundreds.

:

00:53:41,061 --> 00:53:42,291

She also has a strong arc.

:

00:53:42,411 --> 00:53:43,481

Hers is actually stronger.

:

00:53:43,731 --> 00:53:45,721

Oddly enough, it's very similar

to the G eight hundreds.

:

00:53:45,821 --> 00:53:47,621

He wants to protect John at all costs.

:

00:53:47,621 --> 00:53:52,671

So does she, even if that means

hurting or killing others again,

:

00:53:52,681 --> 00:53:56,331

like Arnold, she accomplishes this

as her tangible goal at the midpoint.

:

00:53:56,581 --> 00:53:57,141

They're safe.

:

00:53:57,141 --> 00:53:58,191

They're on their way to Mexico.

:

00:53:58,301 --> 00:53:59,601

T:

:

00:54:00,051 --> 00:54:03,791

Her spiritual goal, that she didn't

know she realized she needed,

:

00:54:03,801 --> 00:54:06,161

was to learn humanity herself.

:

00:54:06,661 --> 00:54:10,901

That human life is precious, and

that except no matter how hard

:

00:54:10,901 --> 00:54:13,201

she tried, she's not a machine.

:

00:54:13,651 --> 00:54:13,951

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:54:14,001 --> 00:54:14,301

Jerome: Right?

:

00:54:14,321 --> 00:54:17,521

She's not a Terminator, and

human life should be preserved.

:

00:54:17,661 --> 00:54:20,091

She gets all the way to

close to killing Dyson.

:

00:54:20,241 --> 00:54:20,421

Right.

:

00:54:20,421 --> 00:54:23,551

She's got him in her

crosshairs, and she stops.

:

00:54:24,076 --> 00:54:24,396

Right?

:

00:54:24,436 --> 00:54:24,806

So that's

:

00:54:24,816 --> 00:54:25,056

Chris: her

:

00:54:25,056 --> 00:54:25,516

Jerome: lesson that

:

00:54:25,516 --> 00:54:26,106

Chris: needs to be learned.

:

00:54:26,146 --> 00:54:28,266

Another pretty traumatic scene,

because that was right in

:

00:54:28,266 --> 00:54:29,566

front of his wife and daughter.

:

00:54:29,686 --> 00:54:30,786

And son!

:

00:54:31,006 --> 00:54:31,736

His son!

:

00:54:31,736 --> 00:54:32,166

Right in front of

:

00:54:32,166 --> 00:54:32,896

Jerome: his son, yeah.

:

00:54:33,306 --> 00:54:36,686

Um, So we often talk about the

mirror image of the protagonist

:

00:54:36,686 --> 00:54:39,916

and the antagonist, and how if

the hero makes bad choices, they

:

00:54:39,916 --> 00:54:40,926

could end up like the villain.

:

00:54:40,946 --> 00:54:42,886

Remember we've talked about

this in previous episodes.

:

00:54:43,266 --> 00:54:44,966

We used examples in the past.

:

00:54:44,986 --> 00:54:47,886

Indiana Jones, if he made bad

choices, he would be Belloc.

:

00:54:47,901 --> 00:54:49,831

Uh, H.

:

00:54:49,831 --> 00:54:49,911

I.

:

00:54:50,111 --> 00:54:51,351

McDonough in Raising Arizona.

:

00:54:51,361 --> 00:54:55,351

We said if he made bad choices, he ends

up Leonard Smalls, the biker, right?

:

00:54:55,461 --> 00:54:56,341

He had the same tattoo.

:

00:54:56,751 --> 00:54:57,051

It was great.

:

00:54:58,001 --> 00:54:58,611

I love that choice.

:

00:54:59,041 --> 00:55:00,391

Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon.

:

00:55:00,941 --> 00:55:04,281

If he didn't join the police

force and he just sort of became

:

00:55:04,281 --> 00:55:05,641

a criminal himself, he's Mr.

:

00:55:05,641 --> 00:55:06,131

Joshua.

:

00:55:06,581 --> 00:55:06,951

Right?

:

00:55:07,221 --> 00:55:07,881

In that movie.

:

00:55:08,271 --> 00:55:10,071

It works here for Sarah, too.

:

00:55:10,541 --> 00:55:14,701

If she doesn't learn that lesson

of humanity, she becomes a machine.

:

00:55:14,761 --> 00:55:15,401

Mentally.

:

00:55:15,801 --> 00:55:18,171

She becomes like the Terminator, right?

:

00:55:19,791 --> 00:55:21,301

Alright, so finally we come to Jon.

:

00:55:21,911 --> 00:55:28,886

The best and strongest arc of the

film and thus The most frustrating

:

00:55:28,976 --> 00:55:30,506

part that I hate at the end.

:

00:55:30,826 --> 00:55:31,166

Okay.

:

00:55:32,096 --> 00:55:33,336

It's my, it's my only

problem with the movie.

:

00:55:34,146 --> 00:55:36,626

We talked about the theme

stated already with John and him

:

00:55:36,626 --> 00:55:39,546

accomplishing his spiritual goal

of accepting his duty, right?

:

00:55:40,046 --> 00:55:43,276

His tangible goal is to be his own

person and not take orders from people.

:

00:55:43,416 --> 00:55:44,216

We kind of get that.

:

00:55:44,441 --> 00:55:46,141

Entire the first half of the film.

:

00:55:46,601 --> 00:55:50,441

He does this a lot right where he's

I'm doing my own thing He even when he

:

00:55:50,441 --> 00:55:53,631

figures out that he can order with the

Terminator to do he starts doing things.

:

00:55:53,631 --> 00:55:55,721

He shouldn't do Go get his mom.

:

00:55:55,731 --> 00:56:02,686

at's bad, right because the t:

there he's acting outside of duty , right.

:

00:56:03,236 --> 00:56:07,986

In fact that peripheral perfect emotional

tug of war that we often talk about

:

00:56:08,046 --> 00:56:12,136

where he when he could understand

his duty, but refuses the right to do

:

00:56:12,136 --> 00:56:14,096

it or refuses to do the right thing.

:

00:56:14,096 --> 00:56:16,546

Sorry, like wanting to

save the foster parents.

:

00:56:16,546 --> 00:56:16,991

That's another example.

:

00:56:17,656 --> 00:56:20,106

Sure, it's a nice thing to do, but

he puts the mission in jeopardy.

:

00:56:20,376 --> 00:56:21,796

He wants to save his mother, same concept.

:

00:56:21,806 --> 00:56:25,146

By the midpoint, he feels somewhat

secure in this thinking, since

:

00:56:25,146 --> 00:56:26,386

his foster parents are dead.

:

00:56:26,576 --> 00:56:27,826

He's on the run with his mom.

:

00:56:27,826 --> 00:56:29,916

The T 800 takes his orders.

:

00:56:30,386 --> 00:56:33,386

The days of him going to school

are seemingly over, right?

:

00:56:33,396 --> 00:56:35,776

So it's like, he is his own person now.

:

00:56:35,981 --> 00:56:36,331

Right?

:

00:56:36,711 --> 00:56:38,521

I am my own person, I

can do whatever I want.

:

00:56:38,521 --> 00:56:41,741

Yet the second half of the film, he

learns that that's not so much the truth.

:

00:56:41,951 --> 00:56:44,551

He does have a duty in

his place as a leader.

:

00:56:45,151 --> 00:56:48,171

He is instrumental in stopping

Sarah from killing Dyson.

:

00:56:48,281 --> 00:56:50,731

He's instrumental in

breaking into Cyberdyne.

:

00:56:50,861 --> 00:56:55,341

He's, he learns the lesson, there is

no fate but what we make for ourselves.

:

00:56:55,341 --> 00:56:56,041

That was a quote.

:

00:56:56,281 --> 00:56:59,331

And realizes his place in this mission.

:

00:56:59,751 --> 00:57:01,341

The duty that he serves.

:

00:57:01,801 --> 00:57:02,631

He doesn't.

:

00:57:03,076 --> 00:57:05,716

Even want the T 800 to perish at the end.

:

00:57:05,726 --> 00:57:09,646

He's desperately ordering him

not to go into the lava, right?

:

00:57:11,136 --> 00:57:14,116

This is the part where I

feel Cameron drops the ball.

:

00:57:15,226 --> 00:57:18,096

At the end, the T 800 claims

he cannot self terminate.

:

00:57:18,876 --> 00:57:20,636

He has to be lowered into the lava.

:

00:57:21,016 --> 00:57:23,176

He gives the controls to Sarah.

:

00:57:24,196 --> 00:57:24,696

Why?

:

00:57:25,316 --> 00:57:26,116

Why?

:

00:57:26,946 --> 00:57:32,466

That would have been a perfect

opportunity for John to step up,

:

00:57:33,986 --> 00:57:36,946

achieving his spiritual goal, and say, No.

:

00:57:37,196 --> 00:57:37,516

No.

:

00:57:37,946 --> 00:57:39,076

He's my soldier.

:

00:57:39,346 --> 00:57:39,766

I'll do it.

:

00:57:40,801 --> 00:57:41,221

Right?

:

00:57:41,281 --> 00:57:41,581

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:57:42,051 --> 00:57:45,201

Jerome: He should have been the one

to lower the T 800 into the lava.

:

00:57:45,981 --> 00:57:50,621

The only thing I can think of that

Cameron would make this decision is that,

:

00:57:50,621 --> 00:57:52,361

you know, Sarah was in the first movie.

:

00:57:52,601 --> 00:57:55,601

She killed the Arnold looking

Terminator from the first movie.

:

00:57:55,931 --> 00:57:57,241

This is maybe a bookend.

:

00:57:57,251 --> 00:58:00,061

She kills this one, too, or something.

:

00:58:00,251 --> 00:58:00,691

Chris: Yeah.

:

00:58:00,981 --> 00:58:02,301

Jerome: It's not strong enough.

:

00:58:02,381 --> 00:58:03,661

It's not strong enough for me.

:

00:58:04,211 --> 00:58:06,141

John was crying and he

didn't want him to go.

:

00:58:06,141 --> 00:58:08,531

So he couldn't do it again.

:

00:58:08,651 --> 00:58:10,021

You're failing at the arc.

:

00:58:10,751 --> 00:58:14,521

The spiritual goal would have

been so better fed this way.

:

00:58:14,541 --> 00:58:16,791

If John did it, that's my

only problem with the ending.

:

00:58:16,811 --> 00:58:19,891

It's my biggest problem with the

movie and it comes right at the end.

:

00:58:20,371 --> 00:58:21,291

I mean, again,

:

00:58:21,341 --> 00:58:24,681

Chris: not a big deal, but

it's still, but again, it kind

:

00:58:24,791 --> 00:58:27,431

Jerome: of is to me when I was

watching it this time, I never

:

00:58:27,431 --> 00:58:30,341

thought this before, but now I

was watching it for this podcast.

:

00:58:30,841 --> 00:58:31,601

It hit me.

:

00:58:31,721 --> 00:58:33,521

He's got tears rolling down his face.

:

00:58:33,531 --> 00:58:36,151

How fucking perfect and

emotional would it have been?

:

00:58:36,151 --> 00:58:36,481

It

:

00:58:36,481 --> 00:58:37,931

Chris: would have been a

way better ending for sure.

:

00:58:37,941 --> 00:58:38,261

If he

:

00:58:38,271 --> 00:58:40,491

Jerome: wiped the tears away

and took the controls from

:

00:58:40,491 --> 00:58:42,051

his mother and said I got it.

:

00:58:42,351 --> 00:58:43,431

I need to do

:

00:58:43,431 --> 00:58:43,711

Chris: this.

:

00:58:43,761 --> 00:58:46,001

And by the way, mom, go

grab that arm in the gears

:

00:58:46,416 --> 00:58:48,816

Jerome: Yeah, so we can throw

that in the lava too, you dumbass.

:

00:58:48,826 --> 00:58:49,786

You forgot the arm.

:

00:58:50,046 --> 00:58:50,696

Again!

:

00:58:51,356 --> 00:58:54,896

So anyway It would have totally

solidified him as a wartime

:

00:58:54,906 --> 00:58:56,536

leader fulfilling his duty.

:

00:58:56,696 --> 00:58:59,416

I thought his spiritual

goal was mostly met.

:

00:58:59,436 --> 00:59:00,716

That would have nailed it.

:

00:59:00,966 --> 00:59:02,166

Yeah, and they fucked it up.

:

00:59:02,416 --> 00:59:03,376

Chris: Yeah, that's a good one.

:

00:59:03,436 --> 00:59:03,856

Yeah.

:

00:59:04,586 --> 00:59:05,316

Jerome: All right, trivia.

:

00:59:06,446 --> 00:59:09,186

Unless you have something to add on

Ark and other plot flaws, did you have

:

00:59:09,186 --> 00:59:10,676

a note of plot flaws that you hated?

:

00:59:10,726 --> 00:59:11,056

No.

:

00:59:11,126 --> 00:59:12,036

Chris: Oh,

:

00:59:12,316 --> 00:59:12,686

Jerome: we got them

:

00:59:12,686 --> 00:59:12,816

Chris: all.

:

00:59:12,996 --> 00:59:13,276

Jerome: I think,

:

00:59:13,316 --> 00:59:15,296

Chris: I mean, I think you covered them

every time you mentioned, I'm like,

:

00:59:15,326 --> 00:59:15,506

Jerome: Oh

:

00:59:15,506 --> 00:59:16,166

yeah,

:

00:59:16,556 --> 00:59:17,426

Jerome: yeah, that too.

:

00:59:17,656 --> 00:59:18,356

That sucked.

:

00:59:18,796 --> 00:59:19,086

All right.

:

00:59:19,536 --> 00:59:24,286

But before we get on, we have to say for

anyone listening for our one listener, my

:

00:59:24,286 --> 00:59:25,856

brother and I both did love this movie.

:

00:59:25,856 --> 00:59:28,836

It's like, this was a big movie

for us in the nineties, right?

:

00:59:28,856 --> 00:59:30,946

Like this was such a fun sequel.

:

00:59:31,336 --> 00:59:32,726

And I don't know, it's still fun.

:

00:59:32,726 --> 00:59:35,486

Like again, watching it for

the podcast, I noticed a lot

:

00:59:35,486 --> 00:59:36,686

more things that I didn't like.

:

00:59:36,906 --> 00:59:37,196

Yeah.

:

00:59:37,831 --> 00:59:40,711

But including the ending,

but it's still fun.

:

00:59:40,741 --> 00:59:42,981

Chris: And it's funny though

too, the special effects for

:

00:59:42,981 --> 00:59:44,721

the time, they were amazing.

:

00:59:44,741 --> 00:59:46,901

But now looking at it going, oh man.

:

00:59:47,121 --> 00:59:51,791

I mean, the molten, the metal,

the liquid metal guy, I mean

:

00:59:51,791 --> 00:59:53,351

that was, it's still pretty cool.

:

00:59:53,851 --> 00:59:58,721

I think the worst special effect that

I saw was when he appeared through

:

00:59:58,721 --> 01:00:01,351

time travel and it burned the truck.

:

01:00:02,081 --> 01:00:04,991

It burned, it burned

out, but it was the orb.

:

01:00:05,071 --> 01:00:06,491

The orb looks so fake.

:

01:00:06,951 --> 01:00:08,131

Jerome: Well, it wasn't just that.

:

01:00:08,141 --> 01:00:11,201

My problem with that is his

human flesh didn't burn.

:

01:00:11,741 --> 01:00:12,051

Chris: Yeah,

:

01:00:12,131 --> 01:00:12,391

Jerome: right.

:

01:00:12,391 --> 01:00:14,601

This ball burned through a truck.

:

01:00:15,161 --> 01:00:16,461

Well, maybe it's just the outside

:

01:00:16,461 --> 01:00:17,041

Chris: of the ball.

:

01:00:17,411 --> 01:00:21,571

Jerome: But he, okay, but it

seemed like the inside was hot too.

:

01:00:21,591 --> 01:00:21,921

I don't know.

:

01:00:22,391 --> 01:00:24,201

It just seemed like his skin was okay.

:

01:00:24,231 --> 01:00:25,961

Like it's supposed to be

human skin, but anyway.

:

01:00:26,461 --> 01:00:30,461

I was going to say the, actually what

I noticed was the worst special effect.

:

01:00:30,871 --> 01:00:32,041

Which I never noticed before.

:

01:00:32,591 --> 01:00:36,851

When he impersonates Jeanette Goldstein

who plays foster mom, Janelle.

:

01:00:37,011 --> 01:00:37,491

Right?

:

01:00:38,721 --> 01:00:41,451

By the way, who's in Aliens, you

know that's Vasquez in Aliens.

:

01:00:42,161 --> 01:00:43,071

I didn't realize that.

:

01:00:43,141 --> 01:00:45,271

And she's the Irish mom in Titanic.

:

01:00:45,761 --> 01:00:46,601

No way.

:

01:00:46,671 --> 01:00:47,301

Yes.

:

01:00:47,371 --> 01:00:48,411

I didn't realize that.

:

01:00:48,461 --> 01:00:48,561

Yes.

:

01:00:48,981 --> 01:00:52,341

Anyway, anyway, I know from, from Vasquez.

:

01:00:52,401 --> 01:00:52,701

Yeah.

:

01:00:52,701 --> 01:00:53,621

To an Irish

:

01:00:53,641 --> 01:00:54,081

Chris: mom.

:

01:00:54,281 --> 01:00:55,981

Jerome: Well, not just that, to Janelle.

:

01:00:55,991 --> 01:00:56,231

Yeah, right.

:

01:00:56,241 --> 01:00:58,041

Like, that change right there is huge.

:

01:00:58,211 --> 01:00:59,151

She's also in Lethal Weapon 2.

:

01:00:59,371 --> 01:01:01,111

She's part of Murtaugh's

crew in Lethal Weapon 2.

:

01:01:01,111 --> 01:01:05,151

But anyway when he impersonates

her and kills the stepdad.

:

01:01:05,191 --> 01:01:05,521

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:01:06,141 --> 01:01:12,266

Jerome: When he turns back into not the

hand part, but when, when she physically

:

01:01:12,286 --> 01:01:17,576

turns back into Robert Patrick in T

:

:

01:01:17,576 --> 01:01:24,046

like step, like almost like stop motion

animation where the transition is made.

:

01:01:24,256 --> 01:01:28,246

And this time watching it for the podcast,

I was like, ugh, with all the other great

:

01:01:28,246 --> 01:01:29,826

special effects, that one kind of sucks.

:

01:01:31,046 --> 01:01:33,986

They could have probably redone

that in remastering but all right.

:

01:01:34,871 --> 01:01:35,361

Trivia.

:

01:01:35,761 --> 01:01:38,951

Co writer William Wisher

appears in the film.

:

01:01:38,951 --> 01:01:43,041

He's the mall photographer who's

taking the pictures of the T 800

:

01:01:43,701 --> 01:01:45,201

as he crashes through the window.

:

01:01:45,501 --> 01:01:50,371

Later in the film, the cops at the asylum

show these pictures that he took to Sarah

:

01:01:50,371 --> 01:01:54,531

Connor and compares them to the pictures

of the:

:

01:01:54,901 --> 01:01:57,991

William Wisher was in the

first Terminator as a cop!

:

01:01:58,071 --> 01:01:58,861

Oh, no way!

:

01:01:58,926 --> 01:01:59,166

That's great.

:

01:01:59,166 --> 01:02:02,526

He was also, he was not in

the, the police station.

:

01:02:02,526 --> 01:02:05,636

He's the one that when the terminator's

on the windshield and pushes his,

:

01:02:05,636 --> 01:02:07,166

punches his hand through the windshield.

:

01:02:07,171 --> 01:02:07,361

Yeah.

:

01:02:07,526 --> 01:02:10,766

And then Reese is remember, has got

it in reverse and when he comes outta

:

01:02:10,766 --> 01:02:12,926

the alley, the Terminator flies off.

:

01:02:12,931 --> 01:02:13,041

Yeah,

:

01:02:13,046 --> 01:02:13,316

Chris: yeah.

:

01:02:13,376 --> 01:02:14,126

Jerome: Onto the street.

:

01:02:14,186 --> 01:02:17,716

There's a cop right there, and the cop

says, oh, I have a hit and run felony.

:

01:02:17,716 --> 01:02:19,396

But that's the co-writer of this movie.

:

01:02:19,456 --> 01:02:20,326

Oh, that's hilarious.

:

01:02:20,376 --> 01:02:22,126

He also has done some work

on the Die Hard films.

:

01:02:22,146 --> 01:02:23,406

Uncredited consulting.

:

01:02:24,006 --> 01:02:26,176

He was 26 years old.

:

01:02:26,836 --> 01:02:28,696

At the time of the first Terminator.

:

01:02:29,456 --> 01:02:31,466

He's known James Cameron since he was 17.

:

01:02:31,656 --> 01:02:32,116

Wow.

:

01:02:33,166 --> 01:02:37,846

Arnold's salary for this film,

for T2, was 15 million dollars.

:

01:02:37,846 --> 01:02:41,526

Which by today's money is nothing,

but it was a lot back then.

:

01:02:41,946 --> 01:02:45,911

He has a total of 700

spoken words of dialogue.

:

01:02:46,421 --> 01:02:50,481

Which means he was paid 21, 000 per word.

:

01:02:51,221 --> 01:02:57,668

Which means that the famous line,

Hasta la vista, baby, cost 86, 000.

:

01:02:57,668 --> 01:02:58,695

Just

:

01:02:58,695 --> 01:03:01,661

him saying the line.

:

01:03:02,771 --> 01:03:03,181

Jerome: Okay.

:

01:03:03,671 --> 01:03:08,441

The biker bar scene at the beginning was

not only located across the street from

:

01:03:08,441 --> 01:03:13,281

the infamous Rodney King beating, The

Rodney King beating literally happened

:

01:03:13,291 --> 01:03:15,131

the night they shot that biker scene.

:

01:03:15,481 --> 01:03:16,471

Are you serious?

:

01:03:16,771 --> 01:03:19,841

Yes, according to James Cameron

in this, in the DVD commentary.

:

01:03:20,461 --> 01:03:20,661

Wow.

:

01:03:20,662 --> 01:03:22,181

Chris: Isn't that crazy?

:

01:03:22,191 --> 01:03:23,401

That is crazy.

:

01:03:23,891 --> 01:03:24,011

All

:

01:03:24,011 --> 01:03:27,261

Jerome: right, the original

idea, this is another good one.

:

01:03:27,261 --> 01:03:27,861

I like this one.

:

01:03:28,071 --> 01:03:32,801

The original idea was for Michael Bean

To play, who played Kyle Reese in the

:

01:03:32,801 --> 01:03:35,311

rst Terminator, to play the T:

:

01:03:35,721 --> 01:03:36,131

Oh, wow.

:

01:03:36,361 --> 01:03:39,541

That Skynet thought if it

impersonated John's father,

:

01:03:39,541 --> 01:03:40,726

it'd be easier to get to him.

:

01:03:41,506 --> 01:03:42,466

.

Chris: Oh, that's weird.

:

01:03:42,586 --> 01:03:43,066

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:03:43,126 --> 01:03:46,366

Cameron and producers later thought

the role reversal of Arnold now

:

01:03:46,366 --> 01:03:49,336

being good and Reese now being

bad, would confuse audiences.

:

01:03:49,426 --> 01:03:49,726

. Yeah.

:

01:03:49,846 --> 01:03:51,646

So they just scrapped the idea altogether.

:

01:03:52,226 --> 01:03:52,766

That's probably a

:

01:03:52,766 --> 01:03:53,306

Chris: good thing.

:

01:03:53,306 --> 01:03:56,606

'cause I did, I, you know, you kind

of have 'em on a pedestal from him.

:

01:03:56,606 --> 01:03:59,386

And, and from, from, from

that and from aliens.

:

01:03:59,391 --> 01:03:59,911

Aliens.

:

01:03:59,971 --> 01:04:00,481

Yeah.

:

01:04:00,481 --> 01:04:00,541

Yeah.

:

01:04:01,091 --> 01:04:01,291

Jerome: Hicks.

:

01:04:01,846 --> 01:04:02,146

Yeah.

:

01:04:02,146 --> 01:04:02,596

Hicks.

:

01:04:03,136 --> 01:04:03,646

Oh God.

:

01:04:03,811 --> 01:04:04,666

I, I love that guy.

:

01:04:05,136 --> 01:04:08,076

. Lastly, my last piece of

trivia here before we move on.

:

01:04:09,431 --> 01:04:13,771

The model number for the

Terminator is technically T 101.

:

01:04:14,891 --> 01:04:17,051

But the nickname is T 800.

:

01:04:17,901 --> 01:04:19,151

They're essentially the same thing.

:

01:04:20,241 --> 01:04:23,781

So whenever you hear Arnold

say, CYBADINE SYSTEMS MODEL

:

01:04:23,781 --> 01:04:27,061

T 101 That's the same as him.

:

01:04:27,101 --> 01:04:29,211

The Arnold looking

Terminator is the T 800.

:

01:04:29,721 --> 01:04:30,051

Why?

:

01:04:30,271 --> 01:04:31,201

Why'd they do the nickname like that?

:

01:04:31,201 --> 01:04:32,321

Exactly, so here's my question.

:

01:04:33,421 --> 01:04:37,801

If the model number is T 101,

then make the nickname Frank?

:

01:04:38,566 --> 01:04:39,576

Or Bill?

:

01:04:40,166 --> 01:04:44,716

Why is the nickname T 800

when the model is T 101?

:

01:04:44,716 --> 01:04:45,676

Or Jeeves?

:

01:04:46,016 --> 01:04:48,336

Could you be any more fucking confusing?

:

01:04:48,636 --> 01:04:50,016

Like, why would you do that?

:

01:04:50,206 --> 01:04:54,536

And I only learned this because

while doing the, while writing this

:

01:04:54,536 --> 01:04:58,446

episode, doing the research for this

podcast, I was like, I kept saying

:

01:04:58,446 --> 01:04:59,566

T 800, and I'm like, wait a minute.

:

01:05:00,151 --> 01:05:01,411

I thought it was T 101.

:

01:05:01,551 --> 01:05:02,341

So I Googled it.

:

01:05:02,341 --> 01:05:03,471

I'm like, what the fuck's the difference?

:

01:05:03,481 --> 01:05:04,721

And they're like, nothing.

:

01:05:04,911 --> 01:05:05,951

There is no difference.

:

01:05:06,601 --> 01:05:08,631

The T 101 is the model number.

:

01:05:08,741 --> 01:05:10,461

The T 800 is a nickname.

:

01:05:10,471 --> 01:05:11,091

Oh my gosh,

:

01:05:11,391 --> 01:05:12,061

Chris: why?

:

01:05:12,062 --> 01:05:13,411

Why?

:

01:05:13,411 --> 01:05:14,241

Jerome: Why then?

:

01:05:14,611 --> 01:05:17,291

But anyway, that's all I have

for Terminator 2 Judgment Day.

:

01:05:17,351 --> 01:05:18,601

If you have something else to add.

:

01:05:18,941 --> 01:05:19,641

Great movie.

:

01:05:20,111 --> 01:05:23,531

Now, we're gonna get more into,

at the end of the second one, the

:

01:05:23,531 --> 01:05:26,891

sequel aspects, when we run it

through Jerome's sequel gauntlet.

:

01:05:27,141 --> 01:05:30,321

But already, the connections to

the first movie are there, right?

:

01:05:30,321 --> 01:05:33,581

Like, this is an obvious,

really good sequel.

:

01:05:33,651 --> 01:05:35,381

Oh yeah, it all ties together.

:

01:05:35,381 --> 01:05:36,821

It all ties together.

:

01:05:36,851 --> 01:05:38,861

Yeah, there's a lot of continuity

:

01:05:38,861 --> 01:05:39,691

Chris: in the story.

:

01:05:40,101 --> 01:05:41,951

Which brings us to our next film.

:

01:05:41,952 --> 01:05:46,541

And we're gonna get to six degrees

at the end of the show, so.

:

01:05:47,841 --> 01:05:50,271

Jerome: Alright, I have to crack

open my, my lightsaber for this.

:

01:05:50,701 --> 01:05:53,651

Chris: Alright, I'm cracking

open a new one too, so in the

:

01:05:53,651 --> 01:05:56,031

same vein as last time, this ugh.

:

01:05:56,621 --> 01:06:01,121

For Speed 2, I'm going for

Passion Fruit and Key Lime Spiked

:

01:06:01,131 --> 01:06:04,141

Seltzer from, from Member's Mark.

:

01:06:05,731 --> 01:06:06,191

Which one

:

01:06:06,191 --> 01:06:06,461

Jerome: is this

:

01:06:06,461 --> 01:06:06,631

Chris: one?

:

01:06:06,651 --> 01:06:07,271

What's it called?

:

01:06:08,091 --> 01:06:11,031

It's Passion Fruit and Key Lime.

:

01:06:11,361 --> 01:06:12,231

Jerome: Oh, yeah.

:

01:06:12,321 --> 01:06:13,801

Chris: Yeah, it sounds frickin nasty.

:

01:06:16,141 --> 01:06:16,591

Jerome: Ooh.

:

01:06:17,101 --> 01:06:18,391

I like that pop though.

:

01:06:20,791 --> 01:06:22,231

I guess I'm gonna have

to do you one better.

:

01:06:23,551 --> 01:06:24,781

I'm gonna have to compete.

:

01:06:25,261 --> 01:06:25,381

Ah,

:

01:06:25,891 --> 01:06:26,401

Chris: here I go.

:

01:06:26,581 --> 01:06:27,001

You ready?

:

01:06:27,781 --> 01:06:29,671

It is better than the cucumber, I guess.

:

01:06:32,311 --> 01:06:33,451

Jerome: Nice little pop of my own.

:

01:06:34,351 --> 01:06:34,411

Ugh.

:

01:06:34,411 --> 01:06:37,351

For anyone that does know, or maybe you're

listening to the show for the first time.

:

01:06:37,531 --> 01:06:45,571

When I say my lightsabers, I have these

tall 25 ounce gigantor cans of Mick Ultra.

:

01:06:45,886 --> 01:06:47,486

They come in large blue cans.

:

01:06:47,966 --> 01:06:48,506

They're my lights.

:

01:06:48,526 --> 01:06:51,066

Chris: Well, and used to

get the bud light, which are

:

01:06:51,256 --> 01:06:52,646

very, which were all blue.

:

01:06:52,706 --> 01:06:52,956

Yeah.

:

01:06:52,956 --> 01:06:53,266

All

:

01:06:53,266 --> 01:06:53,606

Jerome: blue.

:

01:06:54,036 --> 01:06:54,286

But

:

01:06:54,316 --> 01:06:57,736

Chris: these I'm guessing you have a

better, better deal on the Mick ultras.

:

01:06:58,016 --> 01:07:02,196

Jerome: No, they're actually,

they're actually like a, a buck more.

:

01:07:02,276 --> 01:07:02,606

Chris: Oh,

:

01:07:03,196 --> 01:07:04,496

Jerome: but like if the three pack.

:

01:07:04,896 --> 01:07:06,156

Chris: It all tastes the same to me.

:

01:07:06,156 --> 01:07:07,336

I'd go for the cheap ones.

:

01:07:08,376 --> 01:07:10,086

Jerome: I do when I'm

really strapped for cash.

:

01:07:10,246 --> 01:07:11,206

I do go for the cheap ones.

:

01:07:11,526 --> 01:07:12,556

But the McUltra tastes better.

:

01:07:13,776 --> 01:07:18,196

All right, Anheuser Busch, now's your

chance to rope us in for a advertisement.

:

01:07:18,196 --> 01:07:18,356

Why

:

01:07:18,356 --> 01:07:18,736

Chris: would they?

:

01:07:18,746 --> 01:07:19,826

They're getting free advertising.

:

01:07:19,826 --> 01:07:20,716

Yeah, they're getting free.

:

01:07:20,716 --> 01:07:20,776

They're

:

01:07:20,816 --> 01:07:21,266

Jerome: getting us for

:

01:07:21,266 --> 01:07:21,626

Chris: free.

:

01:07:21,656 --> 01:07:22,226

Jerome: Well, you know what?

:

01:07:22,236 --> 01:07:24,076

It doesn't always have to

be that way, Anheuser Busch.

:

01:07:24,356 --> 01:07:25,856

I could go to somebody else.

:

01:07:26,396 --> 01:07:28,166

I could crack open a tall Coors Light.

:

01:07:28,406 --> 01:07:32,586

Okay, speed two, cruise control.

:

01:07:33,116 --> 01:07:35,376

Which by the way, it's it's one

little point I want to throw

:

01:07:35,376 --> 01:07:36,646

out before we even get started.

:

01:07:36,956 --> 01:07:40,946

Speed one was all about keeping

the bus going as fast as possible

:

01:07:40,946 --> 01:07:41,916

so that it doesn't explode.

:

01:07:42,056 --> 01:07:42,266

Yeah.

:

01:07:42,276 --> 01:07:45,726

Speed two, cruise control is

about how quickly they can

:

01:07:45,726 --> 01:07:47,896

slow the, the, the boat down.

:

01:07:48,386 --> 01:07:48,616

Yeah.

:

01:07:48,696 --> 01:07:51,346

Like think, think about

that as an anti action.

:

01:07:52,176 --> 01:07:54,796

We want to slow it

down, not keep it going.

:

01:07:54,876 --> 01:07:55,226

Right.

:

01:07:55,256 --> 01:07:55,556

Anyway.

:

01:07:55,666 --> 01:07:55,966

Okay.

:

01:07:57,146 --> 01:07:57,686

Specs.

:

01:07:59,821 --> 01:08:02,031

Directed by Jan de Bont, written by Rent.

:

01:08:03,131 --> 01:08:04,091

Chris: It just occurred to me.

:

01:08:04,151 --> 01:08:07,141

Speed 2 happened when Judgment

Day should have happened.

:

01:08:08,311 --> 01:08:09,151

97.

:

01:08:09,371 --> 01:08:09,641

Oh,

:

01:08:09,691 --> 01:08:11,151

Jerome: that is the end of

the world then, isn't it?

:

01:08:12,351 --> 01:08:15,441

Written by Randall McCormick

and Jeff Nathanson from a

:

01:08:15,441 --> 01:08:18,341

story by Jan de Bont based on

characters created by Graham Yost.

:

01:08:18,701 --> 01:08:21,571

I'm gonna go into a little bit

of an assault here on the writers

:

01:08:21,571 --> 01:08:22,691

because the script was so bad.

:

01:08:23,191 --> 01:08:25,661

And I don't want it to sound too arrogant.

:

01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,191

They are, after all, professional

writers and I am not.

:

01:08:28,890 --> 01:08:34,470

But, I will say that Yonda Bont was

contractually obligated to do a sequel

:

01:08:34,571 --> 01:08:35,911

on the success of the first one.

:

01:08:35,991 --> 01:08:36,310

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:08:36,381 --> 01:08:40,871

Jerome: So We have to forgive a little

bit that he was probably like, You know,

:

01:08:40,890 --> 01:08:42,020

I want to go off and do other things.

:

01:08:42,020 --> 01:08:43,511

He did Twister right before this.

:

01:08:44,111 --> 01:08:46,270

So, you know, he probably wanted to

do other things, and they're like,

:

01:08:46,270 --> 01:08:48,121

No, you gotta give us a speed sequel.

:

01:08:48,131 --> 01:08:51,581

And he's probably like,

Dude, and I can't get Keanu?

:

01:08:51,621 --> 01:08:53,181

Keanu read the script.

:

01:08:53,541 --> 01:08:57,470

And decided not to make the

movie, after reading the script.

:

01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,140

He chose the movie Chain Reaction instead.

:

01:09:00,291 --> 01:09:01,541

Chris: Hey, that was a good choice.

:

01:09:01,781 --> 01:09:06,951

Jerome: Yeah, so if you're the director,

and you just lost Keanu, I don't know,

:

01:09:07,041 --> 01:09:08,220

I guess this is what you come up with.

:

01:09:09,770 --> 01:09:14,881

So, you could argue that the

Speed franchise made and broke

:

01:09:14,890 --> 01:09:17,031

Jan de Bont's directing career.

:

01:09:18,681 --> 01:09:21,501

Don't get me wrong, highly

respected cinematographer.

:

01:09:21,661 --> 01:09:26,861

He did Cujo, Die Hard, Hunt

for Red October, Flatliners.

:

01:09:26,951 --> 01:09:27,181

Chris: Some

:

01:09:27,181 --> 01:09:27,821

Jerome: bangers.

:

01:09:27,961 --> 01:09:31,520

The aforementioned Lethal Weapon 3

that we talked about in the last movie.

:

01:09:31,522 --> 01:09:34,701

So he was okay.

:

01:09:36,241 --> 01:09:37,191

This is all before.

:

01:09:38,116 --> 01:09:39,786

Chris: Well, yeah, what

do you do after speed to

:

01:09:39,816 --> 01:09:43,206

Jerome: his last American film

credit as director of photography

:

01:09:43,206 --> 01:09:45,786

was lethal weapon three in:

:

01:09:45,956 --> 01:09:48,426

So he didn't even go

back to cinematography.

:

01:09:48,756 --> 01:09:50,776

It was almost like once he became

director, he's like, I'm not

:

01:09:50,776 --> 01:09:51,916

going back to that shit again.

:

01:09:52,426 --> 01:09:53,656

I'm a director now.

:

01:09:53,706 --> 01:09:54,726

Like, that's it.

:

01:09:54,846 --> 01:09:59,426

Unfortunately he, he finally got

his chance to direct and hit two

:

01:09:59,426 --> 01:10:03,526

relative blockbusters with speed

:

:

01:10:03,526 --> 01:10:09,566

six, six, Then after Speed 2, he's

only directed two movies since then.

:

01:10:11,146 --> 01:10:16,526

The Haunting in:

Tomb Raider The Cradle of Love in 2003.

:

01:10:17,016 --> 01:10:18,066

So, what is that?

:

01:10:18,076 --> 01:10:18,826

It's been 20 years?

:

01:10:18,836 --> 01:10:21,736

Over 20 years since he's

directed a movie and he has not

:

01:10:21,736 --> 01:10:22,906

gone back to cinematography.

:

01:10:23,036 --> 01:10:26,816

Whether he's refused, just because

he's kind of graduated onto directing.

:

01:10:27,601 --> 01:10:29,611

That he didn't want to go

back to cinematography or,

:

01:10:29,631 --> 01:10:31,151

or he's not getting the gigs.

:

01:10:31,411 --> 01:10:34,051

I don't know man, but he was

a very gifted cinematographer.

:

01:10:34,281 --> 01:10:37,051

And naturally the progression

was, give him a directing deal.

:

01:10:37,261 --> 01:10:38,751

He had two huge hits.

:

01:10:39,501 --> 01:10:40,221

This goes to show

:

01:10:40,231 --> 01:10:44,541

Chris: He might just be retired

counting his residuals money coming in.

:

01:10:44,826 --> 01:10:49,136

Jerome: Or it's one of those, did

you retire or did Speed 2 retire you?

:

01:10:50,646 --> 01:10:50,956

Right?

:

01:10:51,106 --> 01:10:51,516

I don't know.

:

01:10:52,066 --> 01:10:55,616

Coincidentally, writer Randall

McCormick may have also been

:

01:10:55,616 --> 01:10:57,386

bitten by the cruise control bug.

:

01:10:57,726 --> 01:11:04,286

Of his six writing credits on IMDB,

that's it, six of them, four of them

:

01:11:04,287 --> 01:11:11,106

are Speed 2, Scorpion King 2, and

Scorpion King 3, and Blue Crush 2.

:

01:11:11,306 --> 01:11:11,866

Oh no.

:

01:11:12,166 --> 01:11:14,416

These are all forgettable sequels.

:

01:11:15,966 --> 01:11:18,406

He hasn't had a credit in

Hollywood in over 10 years.

:

01:11:18,956 --> 01:11:21,876

However, walking through the rain

without getting wet, apparently, Jeff

:

01:11:21,896 --> 01:11:24,596

Nathanson has escaped Hollywood exile.

:

01:11:24,786 --> 01:11:30,026

He's actually been a very well known and

credited writer before and after Speed 2.

:

01:11:30,486 --> 01:11:33,596

I didn't write all his credits down

here, but there's, there's a lot of them.

:

01:11:33,776 --> 01:11:35,106

He has worked with Spielberg.

:

01:11:35,326 --> 01:11:37,166

He's worked on Disney collaborations.

:

01:11:37,356 --> 01:11:38,426

He's doing just fine.

:

01:11:38,846 --> 01:11:40,426

So somehow Jeff Nathanson's fine.

:

01:11:41,006 --> 01:11:46,466

The other two weren't able to wash

the speed to stink off their clothes.

:

01:11:47,016 --> 01:11:50,286

But anyway, again, I didn't mean, I

don't want it to sound too attacking.

:

01:11:50,406 --> 01:11:53,646

Yon DeBond and Randall McCormick

probably have way more money than I do.

:

01:11:54,066 --> 01:11:56,576

And like you said, maybe

they're fine with just not.

:

01:11:57,041 --> 01:11:58,261

You know, with just being retired.

:

01:11:59,551 --> 01:12:02,791

But again, did speed to retire them

or did they decide to walk away?

:

01:12:03,221 --> 01:12:03,541

All right.

:

01:12:03,551 --> 01:12:07,571

Running time of two hours and five

minutes with a budget of 160 million,

:

01:12:07,571 --> 01:12:14,071

160 million budget, which would be

about 313 million in today's money.

:

01:12:14,361 --> 01:12:18,011

If you adjust for inflation,

could you imagine 313 million,

:

01:12:18,561 --> 01:12:19,951

313 million to make a movie?

:

01:12:21,886 --> 01:12:24,236

Chris: Well, they, you know,

they, they wrecked a lot of stuff.

:

01:12:24,656 --> 01:12:28,296

Jerome: The final set piece of the

ocean liner crashing into a small

:

01:12:28,316 --> 01:12:31,476

town, that alone cost 25 million.

:

01:12:31,476 --> 01:12:31,996

Wow.

:

01:12:32,226 --> 01:12:37,216

It's the most expensive single stunt

in film history as Jan de Bont, Jan de

:

01:12:37,216 --> 01:12:43,506

Bont did not want to use any CGI and

literally built a small town just so

:

01:12:43,506 --> 01:12:45,416

he could ram the cruise ship into it.

:

01:12:45,426 --> 01:12:45,906

Chris: Wow.

:

01:12:46,336 --> 01:12:47,626

That's crazy.

:

01:12:48,581 --> 01:12:51,241

Jerome: Oddly enough, it

made 162 million worldwide.

:

01:12:51,241 --> 01:12:54,301

So it sounds like it made its money

back, but you know, with all the

:

01:12:54,301 --> 01:12:58,161

money they spend on distribution and

marketing it really, oh, and by the

:

01:12:58,161 --> 01:13:01,991

way of that 162 million worldwide,

only 48 of that was domestic.

:

01:13:03,541 --> 01:13:04,051

Chris: That's rough.

:

01:13:04,111 --> 01:13:04,411

Yeah.

:

01:13:04,431 --> 01:13:05,531

Jerome: So that's a tank.

:

01:13:05,661 --> 01:13:06,551

That's a tank.

:

01:13:06,961 --> 01:13:09,871

Although oddly enough on there,

on the worldwide list, it did

:

01:13:09,871 --> 01:13:11,471

land a respectable eighth.

:

01:13:11,921 --> 01:13:13,351

On the:

:

01:13:13,381 --> 01:13:13,951

That's not bad.

:

01:13:13,951 --> 01:13:14,501

Top 10.

:

01:13:14,751 --> 01:13:15,111

Right.

:

01:13:15,611 --> 01:13:18,171

But again, like I said, only

48 of that was domestic.

:

01:13:18,421 --> 01:13:22,321

So the domestic list is way farther

down, but worldwide it's number eight,

:

01:13:22,341 --> 01:13:25,881

considering production costs and unlisted

marketing and distribution costs.

:

01:13:25,911 --> 01:13:29,651

It is considered a bomb by

most stretches in Hollywood.

:

01:13:29,951 --> 01:13:33,541

We talked about the worldwide list in

97 before when we did the liar, liar

:

01:13:33,541 --> 01:13:36,241

episode, that film came in at number six.

:

01:13:36,886 --> 01:13:39,536

Of course, you remember the biggest

film of the year, another boat

:

01:13:39,586 --> 01:13:42,936

on water film, Titanic, made 1.

:

01:13:42,986 --> 01:13:44,886

8 billion dollars.

:

01:13:44,896 --> 01:13:45,876

I know, I was thinking about that

:

01:13:45,876 --> 01:13:48,846

Chris: when I was watching this,

the scene where the ship's flooding

:

01:13:48,846 --> 01:13:51,796

and everything, and I'm like, oh my

gosh, Titanic came out the same year.

:

01:13:51,806 --> 01:13:52,426

Jerome: Same year.

:

01:13:52,436 --> 01:13:52,826

Weird.

:

01:13:53,216 --> 01:13:55,586

Yeah Titanic is was at 1.

:

01:13:55,646 --> 01:13:56,406

8 billion.

:

01:13:56,407 --> 01:13:58,136

It's about double that.

:

01:13:58,136 --> 01:14:02,296

If you adjust for inflation it garnered

speed to cruise control, mind you

:

01:14:02,316 --> 01:14:07,196

back on the speed to now garnered zero

Academy award nominations, though it

:

01:14:07,206 --> 01:14:09,956

did win the Razzie award for most.

:

01:14:10,266 --> 01:14:12,976

I'm sorry for worst remake or sequel.

:

01:14:13,816 --> 01:14:18,056

It's only Razzie win despite

seven other Razzie nominations.

:

01:14:18,056 --> 01:14:21,723

So it was nominated for

eight total Razzies.

:

01:14:22,033 --> 01:14:24,193

And even failed at winning the Razzies.

:

01:14:24,443 --> 01:14:27,483

Like it only won one

worst remake or sequel.

:

01:14:28,003 --> 01:14:32,663

Some of the other nominations,

Worst Actress, Sandra Bullock, Worst

:

01:14:32,663 --> 01:14:34,943

Script, and it was up for Worst Film.

:

01:14:35,143 --> 01:14:35,283

You

:

01:14:35,283 --> 01:14:40,346

Chris: know, since you mentioned the Worst

it frust the movie frustrated me, and it

:

01:14:40,376 --> 01:14:45,466

I I can't I don't think I can blame her

acting ability because I've seen her act.

:

01:14:45,476 --> 01:14:46,246

She can act.

:

01:14:46,766 --> 01:14:47,286

She's fun.

:

01:14:47,286 --> 01:14:47,616

She's delightful.

:

01:14:48,336 --> 01:14:48,706

I love her.

:

01:14:48,756 --> 01:14:55,766

But the lines they gave her, they made

her out to be a, just a, like a dumb It

:

01:14:55,766 --> 01:14:59,116

was almost like the stereotypical dumb

blonde, even though she's not blonde.

:

01:14:59,186 --> 01:14:59,896

It might be one of the

:

01:14:59,896 --> 01:15:01,646

Jerome: most male

chauvinist films I've ever

:

01:15:01,646 --> 01:15:01,676

Chris: seen.

:

01:15:01,686 --> 01:15:04,736

It was horrible and I kept thinking

to myself, man, this, I mean

:

01:15:05,786 --> 01:15:05,946

Jerome: And

:

01:15:05,946 --> 01:15:06,106

Chris: her

:

01:15:06,106 --> 01:15:07,216

Jerome: face is the poster.

:

01:15:07,666 --> 01:15:08,106

Chris: Yeah,

:

01:15:08,106 --> 01:15:09,236

Jerome: it's it's her movie.

:

01:15:09,296 --> 01:15:10,206

She's top billing.

:

01:15:10,216 --> 01:15:11,236

Chris: She's above the title.

:

01:15:11,256 --> 01:15:12,496

Why'd they do that?

:

01:15:12,556 --> 01:15:13,086

I mean cuz

:

01:15:13,136 --> 01:15:16,666

Jerome: and she serves almost

zero purpose in this movie.

:

01:15:16,686 --> 01:15:20,346

Chris: Yeah What was the what was the

movie where she was the mom that they

:

01:15:20,456 --> 01:15:22,766

they were helping the football player?

:

01:15:23,556 --> 01:15:24,476

She was the one she won

:

01:15:24,476 --> 01:15:25,086

Jerome: the Oscar for the

:

01:15:25,296 --> 01:15:29,376

Chris: blindside She was like a

strong female lead in that movie and

:

01:15:29,376 --> 01:15:34,126

I loved that I loved her role in that

movie cuz you know, she was I don't

:

01:15:34,126 --> 01:15:35,676

know She wasn't a push you even have

:

01:15:35,676 --> 01:15:39,481

Jerome: to go that far later

Like before this movie came out.

:

01:15:39,741 --> 01:15:44,021

Yeah, she did while you were sleeping

a romantic comedy that she carries.

:

01:15:44,071 --> 01:15:46,871

Chris: Oh, yeah Yeah, she

absolutely carries that movie.

:

01:15:46,871 --> 01:15:50,271

She's got a long list of movies

that the scripts were just way

:

01:15:50,271 --> 01:15:51,861

better You know way better.

:

01:15:51,871 --> 01:15:54,311

I hated how the script

portrayed her in this movie.

:

01:15:54,341 --> 01:15:56,911

Jerome: I'm telling you it's it's so

:

01:15:59,411 --> 01:16:02,921

If I was a woman I'd be offended I'm

offended as a man I would be more offended

:

01:16:03,081 --> 01:16:08,676

as a woman that That this is the lead,

this is the above the title lead, the main

:

01:16:08,676 --> 01:16:13,296

person coming back from the first movie,

and you give her literally shit to do.

:

01:16:13,576 --> 01:16:18,366

And it's mind boggling because Jan de

Bont, whose second big film, which came

:

01:16:18,366 --> 01:16:22,776

out a year before this, was Twister, where

Helen Hunt almost carries that movie.

:

01:16:23,356 --> 01:16:28,306

So it's not like he's, you know, immune

to this, it's not like he doesn't know

:

01:16:28,316 --> 01:16:30,336

how to direct a strong female lead.

:

01:16:32,066 --> 01:16:35,306

This script was written

based on his story.

:

01:16:35,636 --> 01:16:38,126

So he does not get to walk away clean.

:

01:16:38,126 --> 01:16:39,666

He can't just blame the script.

:

01:16:40,276 --> 01:16:41,416

He's the fucking director.

:

01:16:41,426 --> 01:16:44,166

He should have looked at it

and said, Look, we lost Keanu

:

01:16:44,356 --> 01:16:45,776

because the script is this bad.

:

01:16:47,236 --> 01:16:55,276

I'm not gonna direct my lead as a

She's no better than a fourth ditz.

:

01:16:56,421 --> 01:16:57,331

It's terrible.

:

01:16:57,331 --> 01:16:59,031

It's, it's absolutely terrible.

:

01:16:59,032 --> 01:17:02,451

And that's probably right off

the bat one of the biggest

:

01:17:02,451 --> 01:17:03,391

things wrong with this movie.

:

01:17:03,401 --> 01:17:05,171

We're gonna get through a

whole list of other things, but

:

01:17:05,171 --> 01:17:06,441

that's, that's the biggest one.

:

01:17:07,221 --> 01:17:11,341

Alright, it stars Sandra Bullock

as Annie, Jason Patrick as Alex

:

01:17:11,341 --> 01:17:14,151

Shaw Willem Dafoe as John Geiger.

:

01:17:14,526 --> 01:17:20,666

Tamura Morrison, later of Django Fett

fame, as Giuliano, and Glenn Plummer

:

01:17:20,675 --> 01:17:23,086

returning from Speed 1 as Maurice.

:

01:17:24,796 --> 01:17:26,666

Terrible, to even bring him back.

:

01:17:27,486 --> 01:17:28,596

We'll, we'll get to that.

:

01:17:29,246 --> 01:17:31,186

Again, what's the worst thing

you can do in any movie?

:

01:17:31,326 --> 01:17:31,956

Coincidence.

:

01:17:32,681 --> 01:17:34,081

Yeah, and they bring this guy back.

:

01:17:34,741 --> 01:17:35,091

All right.

:

01:17:35,721 --> 01:17:36,050

All right.

:

01:17:36,061 --> 01:17:37,101

First time you saw this movie.

:

01:17:37,101 --> 01:17:37,731

What did you think?

:

01:17:39,891 --> 01:17:41,321

Chris: Well, I can tell

you when did you see it?

:

01:17:41,361 --> 01:17:42,391

I don't remember.

:

01:17:42,401 --> 01:17:47,811

I I hope I didn't see it at the

theater I I'd probably remember I

:

01:17:47,811 --> 01:17:53,171

would probably remember walking out

So I'm sure I probably rented it.

:

01:17:54,401 --> 01:17:58,341

I remember renting it I mean, I

remember seeing it a long time ago

:

01:17:58,351 --> 01:18:01,661

shortly after it came out So it was

probably when it came on video or

:

01:18:01,661 --> 01:18:05,311

whatever but yeah, I miss remember

thinking that it was just ridiculous.

:

01:18:05,821 --> 01:18:06,011

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:18:06,041 --> 01:18:08,050

Chris: You know, that was kind

of my overall, and I wasn't a,

:

01:18:08,351 --> 01:18:11,561

you know, I wasn't studying film

and I wasn't like doing this.

:

01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:14,041

You don't have to hate this movie.

:

01:18:14,050 --> 01:18:14,311

No.

:

01:18:14,311 --> 01:18:14,491

Yeah.

:

01:18:14,491 --> 01:18:16,271

I just remember thinking

it was ridiculous.

:

01:18:16,300 --> 01:18:17,241

It was just ridiculous.

:

01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:20,211

Jerome: Now it didn't help that at the

time it came out, I was in film school.

:

01:18:20,212 --> 01:18:24,191

I was in my final year.

:

01:18:24,201 --> 01:18:24,591

Almost.

:

01:18:24,591 --> 01:18:26,131

I was going into my final year.

:

01:18:26,616 --> 01:18:28,496

So I was taking all kinds

of screenwriting classes.

:

01:18:28,496 --> 01:18:29,666

So probably that didn't help.

:

01:18:29,666 --> 01:18:32,216

But when I did see it, I think

I saw it on video when I was in

:

01:18:32,216 --> 01:18:33,656

college, I didn't go to the movies.

:

01:18:33,696 --> 01:18:34,316

I did not spend

:

01:18:34,316 --> 01:18:35,116

Chris: probably around it.

:

01:18:35,126 --> 01:18:38,256

We had, you know, we were, we had

just gotten married the year before.

:

01:18:38,296 --> 01:18:39,006

So, well, I worked at

:

01:18:39,006 --> 01:18:42,276

Jerome: Blockbuster, so I had

free rentals all the time.

:

01:18:42,296 --> 01:18:45,106

And this was one of the movies I

brought home, watched on video.

:

01:18:45,606 --> 01:18:47,925

And I want to say I turned it off.

:

01:18:48,921 --> 01:18:49,881

Like halfway through?

:

01:18:50,291 --> 01:18:51,631

That might've happened with us.

:

01:18:51,701 --> 01:18:52,461

I don't remember.

:

01:18:52,931 --> 01:18:55,881

Because I don't remember

watching the ending originally.

:

01:18:55,921 --> 01:19:00,981

I think I YouTubed the video

YouTubed the ending years later.

:

01:19:02,251 --> 01:19:03,161

And I don't remember why.

:

01:19:04,231 --> 01:19:07,221

Somehow this discussion of Speed

2 came up and I remember thinking,

:

01:19:07,441 --> 01:19:08,731

You know, I never did finish that.

:

01:19:09,001 --> 01:19:09,881

I wonder how it ends.

:

01:19:10,001 --> 01:19:12,241

And I just went on YouTube and

I was like, Speed 2 ending.

:

01:19:12,361 --> 01:19:14,971

And I saw the whole boat and

everything and I was like, That sucks.

:

01:19:15,761 --> 01:19:16,371

That's lame.

:

01:19:16,372 --> 01:19:17,641

And that was it.

:

01:19:17,642 --> 01:19:18,601

And the

:

01:19:18,601 --> 01:19:20,721

Chris: ending took way too long too.

:

01:19:21,221 --> 01:19:21,741

Jerome: Yeah,

:

01:19:21,851 --> 01:19:22,081

Chris: yeah.

:

01:19:22,141 --> 01:19:22,731

You know what I mean?

:

01:19:22,741 --> 01:19:22,941

We'll get to that too.

:

01:19:22,941 --> 01:19:26,151

That whole, that whole ending with

the ship, where we're going to get

:

01:19:26,151 --> 01:19:30,001

there, that happens and then you

still got to go get the bad guy.

:

01:19:31,781 --> 01:19:32,661

Jerome: Don't even get me started.

:

01:19:32,701 --> 01:19:33,611

That's so bad.

:

01:19:33,621 --> 01:19:34,741

It's so bad.

:

01:19:35,731 --> 01:19:37,131

Like I don't know.

:

01:19:37,181 --> 01:19:39,451

Well again, we'll, we'll

get, we got a lot to get to.

:

01:19:39,461 --> 01:19:40,541

So It's almost like they

:

01:19:40,541 --> 01:19:43,701

Chris: did have a formula from the

first movie because the same type

:

01:19:43,701 --> 01:19:47,451

of thing that where they stopped

the bus But that wasn't the end.

:

01:19:47,591 --> 01:19:49,071

You had to go get the bad guy.

:

01:19:49,711 --> 01:19:51,571

Jerome: Right, but not at all.

:

01:19:51,951 --> 01:19:55,511

I think, I, I think you're right on

that, but they also tried to mirror

:

01:19:55,511 --> 01:19:59,191

that the bad guy is a disgruntled

former employee of some sort.

:

01:19:59,261 --> 01:19:59,731

Yeah, right.

:

01:19:59,731 --> 01:20:01,911

You know, so they pulled that

formula from the first movie.

:

01:20:02,061 --> 01:20:02,121

Yeah.

:

01:20:02,161 --> 01:20:03,761

But they fail miserably.

:

01:20:03,781 --> 01:20:04,431

Yeah, it was horrible.

:

01:20:04,431 --> 01:20:07,621

It's like, hey, I made

a really good margarita.

:

01:20:07,921 --> 01:20:09,221

Now I'm gonna make another one.

:

01:20:09,251 --> 01:20:12,001

But instead of tequila, I'm

gonna use seltzer water.

:

01:20:12,381 --> 01:20:15,111

Like, it's not gonna be the same at all.

:

01:20:15,581 --> 01:20:16,731

So so there's that.

:

01:20:16,781 --> 01:20:20,481

And then actually sat down and

watched it for the first time

:

01:20:20,481 --> 01:20:22,781

straight through for this podcast.

:

01:20:22,861 --> 01:20:23,351

Oh, wow.

:

01:20:25,291 --> 01:20:25,371

And

:

01:20:25,721 --> 01:20:28,451

Chris: like I said, I might

not, I remembered a lot of

:

01:20:28,451 --> 01:20:30,021

the scenes when I watched it.

:

01:20:31,041 --> 01:20:31,971

I watched it today.

:

01:20:33,001 --> 01:20:35,521

So you just got done with it.

:

01:20:35,521 --> 01:20:36,361

I just got done with it.

:

01:20:36,371 --> 01:20:37,681

And I'm like, yeah.

:

01:20:37,691 --> 01:20:39,281

So it's fresh on your mind.

:

01:20:39,391 --> 01:20:41,411

But there was a lot I didn't remember too.

:

01:20:41,411 --> 01:20:44,691

So it might have been one of those things

where we watched it, we fell asleep,

:

01:20:44,711 --> 01:20:47,431

we woke up, it's still on, you know.

:

01:20:49,866 --> 01:20:51,956

Sad to say I had to watch

it twice on this podcast.

:

01:20:51,966 --> 01:20:55,236

So let's, let's get through this quickly

then, cause everyone's tuning out now.

:

01:20:55,266 --> 01:20:57,816

They're like, alright, screw it, I

don't need to hear about this movie.

:

01:20:57,816 --> 01:20:58,616

Well no, no, you

:

01:20:58,616 --> 01:21:01,046

Jerome: got it, no, we have to,

no, it is, you're right, sorry

:

01:21:01,046 --> 01:21:02,236

listeners for turning you off.

:

01:21:02,425 --> 01:21:06,256

You have to listen to this because

we're gonna get to why it's so shitty.

:

01:21:06,506 --> 01:21:10,036

Not just that it's a shitty movie, but why

it doesn't work as a sequel and T2 does.

:

01:21:10,236 --> 01:21:10,966

Alright, log me.

:

01:21:11,516 --> 01:21:11,986

Chris: Alright.

:

01:21:12,346 --> 01:21:18,021

A computer hacker breaks into the computer

system of a of the Seabourn Legend cruise

:

01:21:18,021 --> 01:21:23,791

liner and sets it speeding on a collision

course into a gigantic oil tanker.

:

01:21:25,571 --> 01:21:26,451

Jerome: Worst.

:

01:21:27,441 --> 01:21:28,251

Logline.

:

01:21:28,851 --> 01:21:29,550

I've ever heard.

:

01:21:30,321 --> 01:21:33,671

We don't even know that

there's an oil tanker?

:

01:21:34,341 --> 01:21:35,221

Until the end of the movie.

:

01:21:35,231 --> 01:21:35,631

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:21:36,431 --> 01:21:36,781

Jerome: Right?

:

01:21:36,861 --> 01:21:38,961

Like, how is that the log line?

:

01:21:39,851 --> 01:21:41,781

If you go to the movie based

on that log line, you're

:

01:21:41,781 --> 01:21:43,061

like, where's this oil tanker?

:

01:21:43,171 --> 01:21:44,141

Like, what the fuck?

:

01:21:44,681 --> 01:21:48,811

There is no collision course set either

until the second half of the movie.

:

01:21:48,991 --> 01:21:50,041

Like, we don't know any of that.

:

01:21:50,061 --> 01:21:51,661

None of that is on the radar.

:

01:21:51,781 --> 01:21:52,021

Yep.

:

01:21:52,221 --> 01:21:55,061

Alright, we have sort of the beats.

:

01:21:55,771 --> 01:21:56,221

Alright.

:

01:21:56,425 --> 01:22:00,226

Opening image, Alec Shaw airborne

a throwback to Jack's car being

:

01:22:00,236 --> 01:22:01,406

airborne in the first movie.

:

01:22:01,476 --> 01:22:04,675

Yeah, as he's in pursuit of

a villain Meanwhile, Annie is

:

01:22:04,675 --> 01:22:06,186

going through her driving test

:

01:22:08,196 --> 01:22:10,476

This will be so unimportant later.

:

01:22:11,526 --> 01:22:15,536

Normally I say this will be important

later Did you notice they set up a lot

:

01:22:15,536 --> 01:22:17,436

of this driving test thing for Annie?

:

01:22:17,496 --> 01:22:17,836

Chris: Yeah,

:

01:22:18,006 --> 01:22:20,456

Jerome: yet there's no

that's a setup with no payoff

:

01:22:20,636 --> 01:22:21,506

Chris: with no point

:

01:22:22,226 --> 01:22:26,425

Jerome: with Tim Conway, which Right

tells itself that it's a comedy, right?

:

01:22:26,425 --> 01:22:27,296

This is supposed to be funny.

:

01:22:27,626 --> 01:22:30,986

But here's the thing If there

was a moment later in the movie

:

01:22:30,986 --> 01:22:34,016

where she has to take controls of

the boat, you know what I mean?

:

01:22:34,806 --> 01:22:36,376

We'd get like, oh the driving test.

:

01:22:36,556 --> 01:22:38,386

It's now coming into play here.

:

01:22:38,386 --> 01:22:42,096

It's a setup and payoff She has

almost nothing to do the rest

:

01:22:42,096 --> 01:22:44,141

of the movie She's asked to

:

01:22:44,141 --> 01:22:44,721

Chris: do nothing.

:

01:22:44,771 --> 01:22:46,081

Jerome: Yeah, and she

doesn't learn anything

:

01:22:46,091 --> 01:22:48,021

Chris: because at the end of

the movie she does, she retakes

:

01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:49,761

the test and crashes the car.

:

01:22:50,011 --> 01:22:50,161

And

:

01:22:50,161 --> 01:22:50,721

Jerome: crashes again!

:

01:22:51,291 --> 01:22:52,491

So, what's the whole point?

:

01:22:53,041 --> 01:22:53,881

There isn't one.

:

01:22:54,521 --> 01:22:57,291

Theme stated, if you want a theme at all.

:

01:22:57,721 --> 01:23:01,816

After the coincidence of bumping into

each other while he's doing his police

:

01:23:01,816 --> 01:23:05,346

work and she's failing her driving test,

by the way, coincidence, number one, they

:

01:23:05,346 --> 01:23:07,256

kind of interrupt each other's day, right?

:

01:23:07,286 --> 01:23:10,016

And he gives what can only be

described as the closest we're

:

01:23:10,016 --> 01:23:11,966

going to get to a theme slash arc.

:

01:23:12,246 --> 01:23:16,026

She reiterated reiterates her

uncomfortableness with shaw being a

:

01:23:16,026 --> 01:23:21,146

cop because of jack and that she is

avoiding marriage With such a man

:

01:23:21,146 --> 01:23:24,946

because quote relationships born

under extreme circumstances never

:

01:23:24,946 --> 01:23:31,486

work They haven't had an extreme

circumstance yet She did with Jack.

:

01:23:31,876 --> 01:23:33,156

So that made sense.

:

01:23:33,636 --> 01:23:35,346

How does that make sense here?

:

01:23:36,706 --> 01:23:40,196

They're about to have an extreme

circumstance but they haven't had one yet.

:

01:23:41,446 --> 01:23:42,346

Four point push.

:

01:23:43,411 --> 01:23:46,371

Insighting, I can feel the disdain in

my voice as I go through these beats.

:

01:23:47,141 --> 01:23:48,711

I'm sorry listeners, you're

:

01:23:48,711 --> 01:23:50,221

going to have to drink

with us on this one.

:

01:23:50,451 --> 01:23:52,991

You sound like you're drinking

a member's Mark Seltzer.

:

01:23:54,451 --> 01:23:56,491

Chris: That's what you sound like,

you've got that taste in your mouth.

:

01:23:56,492 --> 01:23:58,851

I haven't been this angry since we did

:

01:23:58,851 --> 01:23:59,921

Jerome: that Mel Gibson movie.

:

01:24:00,471 --> 01:24:06,871

Alright, so, 4 point push uh,

Insighting incident, 9 minutes, and

:

01:24:06,881 --> 01:24:08,071

you know what I just thought of?

:

01:24:08,071 --> 01:24:08,941

Sorry, it's part

:

01:24:08,941 --> 01:24:10,321

of our thing to go off on tangents.

:

01:24:11,421 --> 01:24:12,501

Remember in Airplane?

:

01:24:12,771 --> 01:24:14,731

When the lady's getting sick on the plane?

:

01:24:15,011 --> 01:24:18,681

And she goes, I haven't felt this awful

since we saw that Ronald Reagan movie.

:

01:24:18,682 --> 01:24:21,021

Hahahaha!

:

01:24:21,021 --> 01:24:21,161

I

:

01:24:25,050 --> 01:24:26,050

just had no thought!

:

01:24:27,471 --> 01:24:28,941

That's how I feel right now!

:

01:24:28,942 --> 01:24:30,811

Alright.

:

01:24:30,811 --> 01:24:32,681

That's

:

01:24:32,681 --> 01:24:34,550

great.

:

01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:36,421

Alright.

:

01:24:38,161 --> 01:24:39,021

Chris: Sorry, back at it.

:

01:24:39,691 --> 01:24:43,651

Maybe I'll make her face in that scene

from that movie the cover of this episode.

:

01:24:46,361 --> 01:24:47,300

Jerome: Four point push.

:

01:24:47,611 --> 01:24:48,711

Inciting incident.

:

01:24:48,751 --> 01:24:53,341

Nine minutes in, Shaw suggests

that they take a cruise vacation.

:

01:24:53,601 --> 01:24:55,721

This is the inciting incident

because without the cruise

:

01:24:55,721 --> 01:24:56,991

obviously this movie doesn't happen.

:

01:24:57,421 --> 01:25:01,231

They arrive at the cruise ship and have

some coincidental bumps with the bad guy.

:

01:25:01,261 --> 01:25:03,271

Coincidence number two and three.

:

01:25:03,271 --> 01:25:06,061

One, they're sitting right next to

each other on the little speedboat

:

01:25:06,201 --> 01:25:07,631

that takes them to the cruise liner.

:

01:25:08,050 --> 01:25:09,431

They're sitting right next to each other.

:

01:25:09,541 --> 01:25:09,711

Yeah.

:

01:25:09,741 --> 01:25:13,211

And then, while they're being shown

their room, they're walking down

:

01:25:13,211 --> 01:25:17,541

the hallway, the bad guy comes out,

Willem Dafoe, who was just sitting

:

01:25:17,541 --> 01:25:20,561

next to them a moment earlier,

comes out of his room, complaining

:

01:25:20,561 --> 01:25:22,201

about where his golf clubs are.

:

01:25:22,211 --> 01:25:22,721

Chris: Yeah, I know.

:

01:25:22,741 --> 01:25:25,731

Jerome: Like, and they just happen

to be right there to hear it.

:

01:25:25,971 --> 01:25:26,300

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:25:26,591 --> 01:25:28,271

Jerome: Too many

coincidences, way too many.

:

01:25:28,711 --> 01:25:30,211

All right.

:

01:25:30,621 --> 01:25:31,711

So, Catalyst.

:

01:25:32,151 --> 01:25:35,271

Now at this point, we're already

in script disaster because there's

:

01:25:35,281 --> 01:25:38,821

no catalyst or debate to propel

the protagonists into Act 2.

:

01:25:39,091 --> 01:25:44,021

Mostly because, and I put this in all

caps, THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN DANGER!

:

01:25:44,021 --> 01:25:46,657

That's the problem with this movie!

:

01:25:46,657 --> 01:25:51,971

If there's a catalyst at all for

this movie, for this story, it's

:

01:25:51,971 --> 01:25:53,146

mainly for the villain alone.

:

01:25:53,326 --> 01:25:56,496

It's for Willem Dafoe's

character of John Geiger.

:

01:25:57,016 --> 01:25:59,886

It's around the moment he plants the

transmitter in the cockpit, when he's

:

01:25:59,886 --> 01:26:02,836

acting all drunk and he falls on the floor

and he puts the transmitter in there.

:

01:26:03,166 --> 01:26:04,876

That's at the 21 minute mark.

:

01:26:05,376 --> 01:26:06,086

Debate begins.

:

01:26:06,106 --> 01:26:09,656

Again, unless we're using the vi

the viewpoint of the villain, there

:

01:26:09,686 --> 01:26:11,736

isn't a debate at all for our heroes.

:

01:26:11,956 --> 01:26:14,675

For the villain, it might be

when he kills the captain.

:

01:26:15,036 --> 01:26:18,126

When he throws the captain

overboard, that's sort of like, okay,

:

01:26:18,296 --> 01:26:19,616

we're, we're all in on this now.

:

01:26:19,786 --> 01:26:20,146

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:26:20,456 --> 01:26:20,686

Yeah.

:

01:26:21,036 --> 01:26:24,836

Jerome: If we're going on the story being

Annie's unwillingness to marry a cop.

:

01:26:24,966 --> 01:26:25,486

Well, hold on,

:

01:26:25,756 --> 01:26:26,056

Chris: hold on.

:

01:26:26,066 --> 01:26:27,196

It wasn't William Defoe.

:

01:26:27,196 --> 01:26:29,456

Everyone looked at his face,

go, Oh, he's the bad guy.

:

01:26:29,911 --> 01:26:31,511

Jerome: Yeah, well, okay.

:

01:26:31,701 --> 01:26:33,101

Number one, because he's Willem Dafoe.

:

01:26:33,151 --> 01:26:33,550

Yeah.

:

01:26:33,550 --> 01:26:36,601

Number two, he's got the

perfect bad guy face.

:

01:26:37,091 --> 01:26:37,131

I mean.

:

01:26:37,241 --> 01:26:37,611

Right, he

:

01:26:37,611 --> 01:26:38,081

Chris: looks crazy.

:

01:26:38,091 --> 01:26:40,891

Jerome: No, that's what you need to

put on the poster for this episode.

:

01:26:41,201 --> 01:26:44,091

That, that one look he has

where his eyes are really big.

:

01:26:44,791 --> 01:26:45,991

I'll, I'll send it to you.

:

01:26:45,991 --> 01:26:49,471

It's the speed two

picture of Willem Dafoe.

:

01:26:49,961 --> 01:26:50,311

Alright.

:

01:26:51,701 --> 01:26:55,300

So again, if you're going to try to dig up

some sort of an arc, if we're going to go

:

01:26:55,300 --> 01:26:59,561

on the story being Annie's unwillingness

to marry a cop, then the catalyst is where

:

01:26:59,561 --> 01:27:04,931

Shaw almost pops the question at dinner

and then suddenly gets seasick, I guess.

:

01:27:05,221 --> 01:27:08,891

Like, he, it makes it seem like he just

wants to get out of that situation.

:

01:27:08,891 --> 01:27:10,001

Like, this is embarrassing.

:

01:27:10,231 --> 01:27:11,321

I have the ring in my hand.

:

01:27:11,675 --> 01:27:13,636

Now she's telling me she doesn't want

to get married, I have to quickly

:

01:27:13,636 --> 01:27:14,896

put the ring back in my pocket.

:

01:27:15,196 --> 01:27:16,976

Ugh, I feel sick, let's leave.

:

01:27:17,256 --> 01:27:17,366

He

:

01:27:17,466 --> 01:27:18,556

really was sick!

:

01:27:19,016 --> 01:27:21,416

Jerome: The next shot, they show

the vomit bucket next to his bed!

:

01:27:22,916 --> 01:27:25,256

So, alright, anyway.

:

01:27:26,406 --> 01:27:28,416

You, they could have made

the debate the next scene.

:

01:27:28,626 --> 01:27:30,936

When they're, I guess that

would be the debate the next

:

01:27:30,936 --> 01:27:31,836

scene, where they're shopping.

:

01:27:32,391 --> 01:27:36,011

And they have yet another lover's

spat, sort of like he wants to get

:

01:27:36,011 --> 01:27:37,451

married and she doesn't, kind of thing.

:

01:27:37,451 --> 01:27:38,001

Right, right.

:

01:27:38,041 --> 01:27:43,131

So, again, now, we're at this point,

and if you're unsure whose story

:

01:27:43,131 --> 01:27:50,401

are we telling, Annie's, Shaw's,

or Geiger's, I couldn't tell you.

:

01:27:51,191 --> 01:27:51,561

I don't know.

:

01:27:51,561 --> 01:27:54,331

I think it's Annie's because

Sandra Bullock's the lead.

:

01:27:54,550 --> 01:27:54,861

Right.

:

01:27:54,881 --> 01:27:55,471

They tell me.

:

01:27:55,861 --> 01:27:56,221

We saw her in

:

01:27:56,221 --> 01:27:56,951

Chris: the first movie.

:

01:27:56,981 --> 01:27:57,381

Jerome: No, no.

:

01:27:57,381 --> 01:27:59,041

The poster tells me she's the lead.

:

01:27:59,050 --> 01:27:59,421

Sure.

:

01:27:59,781 --> 01:28:01,431

But the story doesn't at all.

:

01:28:02,041 --> 01:28:05,171

And again, it makes hard, nailing

down the catalyst in the debate

:

01:28:05,181 --> 01:28:07,701

makes it almost impossible if you

don't know whose fucking story it is.

:

01:28:08,541 --> 01:28:10,001

Break into 2.

:

01:28:10,001 --> 01:28:13,571

34 minutes in, the engines on the ship

break down and the ship is now disabled.

:

01:28:13,581 --> 01:28:18,791

This is a clear jump into 2 because at

this point now, all the passengers on the

:

01:28:18,791 --> 01:28:22,141

ship, their old world has now changed.

:

01:28:22,141 --> 01:28:25,511

They're in a new world now, where

they're on a cruise ship that's disabled.

:

01:28:26,001 --> 01:28:30,101

They don't know why, they don't

know they're in danger, and in

:

01:28:30,101 --> 01:28:32,331

fact, they're really not, and

we'll get to that in a second.

:

01:28:32,881 --> 01:28:35,251

The heroes still don't even

know that there is a bad guy.

:

01:28:35,300 --> 01:28:36,941

They don't even know

that there is a bad guy.

:

01:28:36,961 --> 01:28:37,211

Right.

:

01:28:37,231 --> 01:28:38,661

They just know that the ship is disabled.

:

01:28:39,191 --> 01:28:43,461

The bad guy tells Giuliano

to evacuate the passengers.

:

01:28:44,481 --> 01:28:47,121

So, he doesn't even want

to keep them hostage.

:

01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:49,851

He doesn't want to hurt anybody.

:

01:28:50,461 --> 01:28:52,351

He wants them all to be evacuated.

:

01:28:52,921 --> 01:28:56,781

So really the passengers are not hostages.

:

01:28:57,151 --> 01:29:01,171

They're free to go, but they don't

even know this yet because they

:

01:29:01,171 --> 01:29:02,281

don't know there's a bad guy.

:

01:29:02,321 --> 01:29:02,621

Chris: Right.

:

01:29:03,171 --> 01:29:05,311

Jerome: So think about

this already from an action

:

01:29:05,791 --> 01:29:06,821

Chris: Yeah, movie standpoint.

:

01:29:06,821 --> 01:29:07,931

You could have ended this movie.

:

01:29:07,961 --> 01:29:09,671

Just get everyone on those lifeboats.

:

01:29:09,721 --> 01:29:11,771

Everyone's safe and secure.

:

01:29:11,791 --> 01:29:13,711

They'll figure, they'll

take care of this guy.

:

01:29:13,711 --> 01:29:15,221

Jerome: There's no stakes.

:

01:29:15,681 --> 01:29:17,371

There's no, there's nothing in the back.

:

01:29:17,771 --> 01:29:20,771

T2, the world's humanity

was in the balance.

:

01:29:20,811 --> 01:29:21,361

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

:

01:29:21,550 --> 01:29:24,621

Jerome: In this movie,

nothing is in the balance.

:

01:29:25,031 --> 01:29:26,391

They're free to leave whenever they want.

:

01:29:26,521 --> 01:29:26,921

And what's the

:

01:29:27,931 --> 01:29:31,331

Chris: story continuity and

everything from the first movie?

:

01:29:32,391 --> 01:29:35,061

Sander Bullock has PTSD, I guess.

:

01:29:36,501 --> 01:29:37,061

Jerome: Oh, in dating.

:

01:29:37,261 --> 01:29:37,791

In dating.

:

01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:38,691

In dating, yes.

:

01:29:38,721 --> 01:29:42,331

Not in real life, where that

could have been a real thing.

:

01:29:42,351 --> 01:29:42,671

Yeah.

:

01:29:42,701 --> 01:29:42,851

I

:

01:29:42,851 --> 01:29:43,701

Chris: just survived

:

01:29:43,911 --> 01:29:44,071

Jerome: something,

:

01:29:44,071 --> 01:29:44,951

Chris: I almost died.

:

01:29:44,971 --> 01:29:48,371

I married John Wick and it was

not, or I dated John Wick for

:

01:29:48,371 --> 01:29:49,891

a while and it didn't go well.

:

01:29:50,261 --> 01:29:53,391

Jerome: Yeah, so now I

have PTSD in relationships.

:

01:29:53,731 --> 01:29:57,151

Not getting on buses or cars or

boats, I can do that just fine.

:

01:29:59,456 --> 01:30:00,226

Funny games.

:

01:30:00,226 --> 01:30:03,186

The evacuation process has heavy issues.

:

01:30:03,246 --> 01:30:05,946

Not because of anything Geiger has done.

:

01:30:06,376 --> 01:30:12,826

Just because like the whole, like the,

the boats, the lifeboats are failing.

:

01:30:13,971 --> 01:30:15,601

Like that's just an action sequence.

:

01:30:15,601 --> 01:30:18,951

Like, let's just put that in there so

we can make everybody soaking wet and

:

01:30:18,951 --> 01:30:21,311

hanging from ropes and make it exciting.

:

01:30:21,351 --> 01:30:22,481

Geiger didn't do any of that.

:

01:30:22,491 --> 01:30:23,171

Like none of that.

:

01:30:23,291 --> 01:30:27,371

That's almost like it reminded me in seven

when they get out at the end, they get out

:

01:30:27,371 --> 01:30:32,001

of the car and they see a dead dog and,

and Kevin Spacey's all, I didn't do that.

:

01:30:34,221 --> 01:30:37,521

I almost thought there was gonna

be a moment where Willem Dafoe sees

:

01:30:37,521 --> 01:30:38,961

what's going on outside and he's like.

:

01:30:39,161 --> 01:30:42,681

I didn't do that none of that

was me, like, you guys are having

:

01:30:42,681 --> 01:30:45,381

trouble evacuating this ship, that's

not my, me, that's not my fault.

:

01:30:45,971 --> 01:30:47,541

Alright, B story.

:

01:30:49,631 --> 01:30:54,691

If we view this as a love story,

Annie's B story is still probably Shaw,

:

01:30:55,611 --> 01:31:01,621

who would lead her to her spiritual

goal, I guess, of getting married?

:

01:31:01,641 --> 01:31:02,561

I don't, I don't know.

:

01:31:03,021 --> 01:31:08,091

If this is Shaw's film Annie is his

B story because she will lead him

:

01:31:08,241 --> 01:31:13,371

to his spiritual goal of having the

courage to ask him to marry her,

:

01:31:13,991 --> 01:31:14,451

I guess?

:

01:31:15,401 --> 01:31:17,131

Jerome: This all sounds like

a romantic comedy, doesn't it?

:

01:31:17,151 --> 01:31:20,071

Like, it doesn't sound like

an action movie at all.

:

01:31:20,521 --> 01:31:23,261

If the movie is Geiger, if this is

Geiger's movie, there is no B story.

:

01:31:24,211 --> 01:31:29,126

So, one could argue from a story

standpoint that even Giuliano Juliano?

:

01:31:29,566 --> 01:31:33,276

Could it be arguably a B story,

since he's instrumental in helping

:

01:31:33,286 --> 01:31:35,016

Shaw save the boat in the end?

:

01:31:36,006 --> 01:31:36,526

Maybe.

:

01:31:37,006 --> 01:31:38,376

Take your pick, it doesn't matter.

:

01:31:39,206 --> 01:31:40,436

Alright, more fun and games.

:

01:31:40,436 --> 01:31:44,266

There are passengers left behind from the

evacuation, notably a couple who gave two

:

01:31:44,266 --> 01:31:46,276

shits about their deaf daughter missing.

:

01:31:46,816 --> 01:31:49,336

They decide to stay on the

boat until she shows up.

:

01:31:49,796 --> 01:31:55,966

Also, 54 minutes in, almost an

hour, mind you, Shaw realizes

:

01:31:55,966 --> 01:31:57,626

that Geiger is the bad guy.

:

01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:01,416

Or actually, that there even is a bad guy.

:

01:32:01,476 --> 01:32:01,806

Right.

:

01:32:02,146 --> 01:32:04,846

Fifty four minutes into the movie.

:

01:32:05,626 --> 01:32:06,546

Midpoint scene.

:

01:32:07,696 --> 01:32:14,206

Annie, the supposed protagonist of the

film, the above the title lead, is told

:

01:32:14,206 --> 01:32:18,636

by Shaw that Geiger is the villain and

the people on the ship are in danger.

:

01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:21,921

That's one hour, five minutes in.

:

01:32:23,681 --> 01:32:25,781

This is the first time she's aware of

:

01:32:25,791 --> 01:32:26,501

Chris: any danger.

:

01:32:26,641 --> 01:32:30,841

So I mean, an hour and five minutes in

there should have only been 25 minutes

:

01:32:30,841 --> 01:32:33,221

left in the movie at that point.

:

01:32:33,521 --> 01:32:35,581

I didn't need to be for

an hour and a half movie.

:

01:32:36,161 --> 01:32:37,731

Romantic comedies are an hour and a half.

:

01:32:38,331 --> 01:32:39,881

It didn't need to be two hours long.

:

01:32:40,091 --> 01:32:40,481

Jerome: So.

:

01:32:41,356 --> 01:32:44,916

Now, there was the fumbling around with

the evacuation where people were in

:

01:32:44,916 --> 01:32:47,826

danger and she helped out there, I guess.

:

01:32:48,356 --> 01:32:49,026

Not really.

:

01:32:50,306 --> 01:32:52,296

Shaw helped and she just assisted him.

:

01:32:52,916 --> 01:32:55,306

You know, as a little good

woman should, assist her man.

:

01:32:56,031 --> 01:32:57,611

Okay, that was meant to sound very snarky.

:

01:32:58,461 --> 01:32:58,921

Um,

:

01:32:58,951 --> 01:32:59,921

Chris: Yeah, I'm just nodding.

:

01:32:59,961 --> 01:33:00,901

Jerome: Oh yeah, absolutely.

:

01:33:00,901 --> 01:33:01,341

Yeah, yeah.

:

01:33:02,981 --> 01:33:04,441

That's how they make her character seem!

:

01:33:04,441 --> 01:33:05,541

I know, it's awful!

:

01:33:05,550 --> 01:33:09,461

She's just there to support

Shaw and his saving of people.

:

01:33:09,611 --> 01:33:10,781

Like, anyway.

:

01:33:11,441 --> 01:33:14,981

But that's, to her, the only part

of danger is the evacuation process.

:

01:33:15,671 --> 01:33:17,911

This is the first time she knows

that there actually is a bad guy.

:

01:33:18,441 --> 01:33:19,791

Alright, bad guys closing in.

:

01:33:19,791 --> 01:33:23,351

Shaw tracks down Geiger, they

have a chase, and Geiger traps

:

01:33:23,351 --> 01:33:24,721

Shaw in a room with a grenade.

:

01:33:25,991 --> 01:33:31,031

In this scenario, Shaw is the bad guy

and he's closing in on Geiger, the hero.

:

01:33:33,011 --> 01:33:33,731

Wait, no.

:

01:33:34,501 --> 01:33:34,961

Reverse that.

:

01:33:35,941 --> 01:33:36,441

See what I mean?

:

01:33:36,621 --> 01:33:37,841

I don't know whose story it is.

:

01:33:38,021 --> 01:33:40,761

If it's Geiger's story,

Shaw's the bad guy, right?

:

01:33:41,081 --> 01:33:41,771

He's chasing him.

:

01:33:41,791 --> 01:33:42,061

Right.

:

01:33:42,101 --> 01:33:43,341

And Geiger traps him in a room.

:

01:33:43,431 --> 01:33:45,041

Okay, all is lost.

:

01:33:45,041 --> 01:33:47,271

One hour, 27 minutes in.

:

01:33:47,451 --> 01:33:49,601

About the time a Notting

Hill would be ending.

:

01:33:50,550 --> 01:33:55,971

Geiger takes Annie hostage and gets off

the boat, thus leaving Shaw and Giuliano

:

01:33:56,001 --> 01:33:57,951

behind to deal with the impending doom.

:

01:33:58,311 --> 01:34:00,061

So this is all is lost, I guess.

:

01:34:00,386 --> 01:34:02,286

For Shaw, because Annie's now gone, right?

:

01:34:02,306 --> 01:34:03,216

She's a hostage now.

:

01:34:03,876 --> 01:34:06,706

The guy who didn't want to hurt

anybody has now taken a hostage.

:

01:34:08,156 --> 01:34:09,146

Dark Night of the Soul.

:

01:34:09,646 --> 01:34:12,755

This is the first time the remaining

passengers find out that they're

:

01:34:12,755 --> 01:34:16,066

on a collision course with an oil

tanker and they start freaking out.

:

01:34:16,585 --> 01:34:21,296

This is arguably, I don't want to say

it's the first time, this might be around

:

01:34:21,296 --> 01:34:22,996

the first time the audience knows too.

:

01:34:23,316 --> 01:34:26,236

They have an action sequence where

they're trying to slow the propeller down.

:

01:34:26,741 --> 01:34:27,391

Mm hmm, right?

:

01:34:27,441 --> 01:34:27,791

Yeah.

:

01:34:27,791 --> 01:34:31,401

So the audience might know then I

can't remember when I first realized

:

01:34:31,421 --> 01:34:36,960

the oil tanker, but it's way late Oh,

yeah, way late Breaking the three Shaw

:

01:34:37,001 --> 01:34:41,031

Giuliano managed to save the tanker

by sideswiping it to avoid collision.

:

01:34:41,031 --> 01:34:46,591

This is one hour 44 minutes in and

the ship instead collides with a

:

01:34:46,591 --> 01:34:51,691

small town now that the ship is out

of the picture and we are officially

:

01:34:51,691 --> 01:34:54,661

in act 3 The after world, right?

:

01:34:54,851 --> 01:34:57,101

The, the before world

was everything's fine.

:

01:34:57,101 --> 01:35:02,951

The, the upside down world is

being on the ship that's disabled.

:

01:35:03,171 --> 01:35:05,491

So the new world must be.

:

01:35:05,891 --> 01:35:09,861

They're off the ship because the

ship has crashed landed into a town.

:

01:35:10,361 --> 01:35:11,791

So we're in act three now.

:

01:35:12,151 --> 01:35:13,471

The ship is no longer a problem.

:

01:35:13,481 --> 01:35:14,651

Now they have to save Annie.

:

01:35:14,731 --> 01:35:15,471

That's the problem.

:

01:35:15,841 --> 01:35:20,300

So that brings us to what the best we

can come up with of a five point finale.

:

01:35:21,101 --> 01:35:22,130

Gathering the team.

:

01:35:22,451 --> 01:35:24,591

They commandeer Maurice's boat.

:

01:35:24,701 --> 01:35:25,821

Another coincidence.

:

01:35:25,831 --> 01:35:29,751

He just happens to be there and he

says I've just bought a condo here.

:

01:35:29,751 --> 01:35:34,431

This is the same guy for those of you

that don't know that Jack Traven, played

:

01:35:34,431 --> 01:35:39,380

by Keanu Reeves, took his car in the

first Speed movie and knocked the door

:

01:35:39,380 --> 01:35:45,411

off of it so that he could jump onto the

bus and he even stole this guy's phone.

:

01:35:46,151 --> 01:35:47,181

He has returned!

:

01:35:47,191 --> 01:35:51,151

He just happened to be there

when all this shit was going on.

:

01:35:52,391 --> 01:35:53,161

Another coincidence.

:

01:35:53,601 --> 01:35:54,611

Execution of the plan.

:

01:35:54,630 --> 01:35:57,710

In pursuit of the bad guys, they

need to get him before he gets to

:

01:35:57,710 --> 01:35:59,651

his plane and take off with Annie.

:

01:36:00,071 --> 01:36:01,300

High tower surprise!

:

01:36:02,681 --> 01:36:05,361

Is the funniest edit, edit

shot of the entire film.

:

01:36:05,911 --> 01:36:11,210

Within one shot, they go from

hurling towards the plane, To

:

01:36:11,210 --> 01:36:12,671

boom, they're in the plane!

:

01:36:14,391 --> 01:36:16,931

And Geiger is taking off with Annie.

:

01:36:17,101 --> 01:36:17,771

That shit.

:

01:36:18,371 --> 01:36:22,561

Seriously, there's no scene

of them getting on the plane.

:

01:36:23,071 --> 01:36:26,701

They're on the scooters, the, the jet

skis or whatever heading towards the

:

01:36:26,701 --> 01:36:28,721

plane, the next shot they're taking off.

:

01:36:28,731 --> 01:36:33,121

Like they're already on the plane

and remember she's a hostage.

:

01:36:33,601 --> 01:36:38,021

So apparently he had no problems

getting her in the plane to take

:

01:36:38,021 --> 01:36:39,951

off because it didn't require.

:

01:36:40,226 --> 01:36:41,003

Us to see it.

:

01:36:41,003 --> 01:36:41,250

Yes.

:

01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:42,686

It just happens so easily.

:

01:36:42,916 --> 01:36:43,376

Of course.

:

01:36:44,196 --> 01:36:44,656

Okay.

:

01:36:44,696 --> 01:36:45,476

Dig down deep.

:

01:36:45,546 --> 01:36:49,456

Shaw must attach himself to the

plane as it's taking off and

:

01:36:49,486 --> 01:36:51,346

Annie dumps the jewels overboard.

:

01:36:51,356 --> 01:36:52,726

By the way, a little subplot there.

:

01:36:52,925 --> 01:36:56,306

I think we're going to get to the

subplots later, but the whole, he's

:

01:36:56,316 --> 01:37:01,656

dying of copper blood infection,

which is why he's disgruntled at

:

01:37:01,656 --> 01:37:03,776

the company and he needs leeches.

:

01:37:04,005 --> 01:37:08,316

to clean his blood, then why throw

in the whole diamond heist thing?

:

01:37:08,636 --> 01:37:12,366

If his revenge is to crash the ship

into an oil tanker to get his revenge,

:

01:37:12,826 --> 01:37:14,636

what what do you need the diamonds for?

:

01:37:14,666 --> 01:37:15,755

You're gonna die anyway.

:

01:37:15,755 --> 01:37:17,966

You have copper blood poisoning.

:

01:37:18,066 --> 01:37:19,036

But, anyway, whatever.

:

01:37:20,286 --> 01:37:20,986

It's not important.

:

01:37:21,566 --> 01:37:22,316

Chris: And he dumps the ship.

:

01:37:22,356 --> 01:37:23,005

Hold on a minute.

:

01:37:24,306 --> 01:37:26,476

Why would those diamonds

have been on the ship?

:

01:37:29,406 --> 01:37:31,846

Jerome: Well, there was a scene during

dinner, weren't they showing them off?

:

01:37:31,846 --> 01:37:33,376

They were auctioning them or something?

:

01:37:34,606 --> 01:37:37,206

Chris: It just seems like a

weird thing to take on a cruise.

:

01:37:37,616 --> 01:37:41,636

Jerome: Well, it was, they were there to

sell them or auction them or something.

:

01:37:41,646 --> 01:37:44,346

There's something in the dinner

scene where he wants to propose to

:

01:37:44,346 --> 01:37:47,636

her and he's communicating with the

deaf girl through sign language.

:

01:37:48,066 --> 01:37:50,266

The diamonds are presented

there for the first time and

:

01:37:50,266 --> 01:37:51,386

I can't remember what it was.

:

01:37:51,646 --> 01:37:52,096

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:37:52,146 --> 01:37:52,505

Jerome: Yeah.

:

01:37:52,546 --> 01:37:53,526

They're there for an auction

:

01:37:53,526 --> 01:37:53,766

Chris: or something.

:

01:37:53,946 --> 01:37:56,746

They just made up some BS,

but it just seemed weird.

:

01:37:57,085 --> 01:37:58,806

Jerome: They just made it

up so he can steal diamonds.

:

01:37:58,816 --> 01:37:59,626

Yeah, exactly.

:

01:37:59,776 --> 01:38:01,116

Not for any real purpose.

:

01:38:01,585 --> 01:38:02,656

Just to steal diamonds.

:

01:38:03,946 --> 01:38:04,476

Okay.

:

01:38:05,776 --> 01:38:10,766

So he then climbs Shaw then climbs into

the cockpit where Geiger and Annie are.

:

01:38:12,755 --> 01:38:15,526

Are you ready for the big action

sequence where he saves Annie?

:

01:38:16,186 --> 01:38:18,396

Because he just takes

her and they jump out.

:

01:38:20,036 --> 01:38:20,316

That's all.

:

01:38:20,936 --> 01:38:22,755

Geiger does nothing about it.

:

01:38:22,856 --> 01:38:23,276

Right.

:

01:38:23,425 --> 01:38:24,526

He just watches it.

:

01:38:24,886 --> 01:38:28,796

He takes Annie and he gets out of

the boat, or gets out of the plane.

:

01:38:29,216 --> 01:38:32,216

They, they kind of get out onto

that little pontoon, you know?

:

01:38:32,646 --> 01:38:37,255

The thing that you know, the little thing

that the a plane that can land on water.

:

01:38:37,286 --> 01:38:38,446

You know, the pontoon thing.

:

01:38:38,585 --> 01:38:42,076

Anyway, they get on that

and that just breaks off.

:

01:38:42,835 --> 01:38:44,236

Like, that's how they get away.

:

01:38:45,175 --> 01:38:46,816

They don't make it break off.

:

01:38:46,835 --> 01:38:47,366

Chris: Yeah, it

:

01:38:47,366 --> 01:38:47,755

Jerome: just

:

01:38:48,036 --> 01:38:48,436

Chris: breaks.

:

01:38:48,436 --> 01:38:49,216

Jerome: It's just detached.

:

01:38:51,206 --> 01:38:51,776

Good for them.

:

01:38:53,186 --> 01:38:54,446

Execution of the new plan.

:

01:38:54,446 --> 01:38:57,696

So, oh, that was the

execution of the plan.

:

01:38:57,706 --> 01:39:01,326

Shaw saves Annie by stepping out of the

pontoon, which then suddenly breaks off

:

01:39:01,335 --> 01:39:05,606

for the plane for no reason, separating

them from Giger, who's clears the tanker,

:

01:39:05,706 --> 01:39:10,255

by the way, that's now a dramatic moment

for Geiger, is that he has to get his

:

01:39:10,255 --> 01:39:16,526

plane up high to clear the tanker, only

to then turn the plane and hit an antenna.

:

01:39:17,456 --> 01:39:19,526

The way it hit it and just stuck there.

:

01:39:19,526 --> 01:39:20,716

It just stuck there.

:

01:39:20,906 --> 01:39:22,501

Just stuck on the antenna.

:

01:39:23,651 --> 01:39:26,111

It was, it was so bad, it was humorous.

:

01:39:26,541 --> 01:39:31,321

Worse, worse, the people on the

tanker start yelling, ABANDON SHIP!

:

01:39:31,741 --> 01:39:32,531

IT'S GONNA BLOW!

:

01:39:34,091 --> 01:39:34,341

Why?

:

01:39:34,361 --> 01:39:34,761

I don't know.

:

01:39:35,451 --> 01:39:36,671

He hit an antenna!

:

01:39:36,771 --> 01:39:37,621

I know.

:

01:39:37,781 --> 01:39:41,061

Why did they think that was

gonna cause a chain reaction

:

01:39:41,061 --> 01:39:42,061

that would blow up the ship?

:

01:39:42,061 --> 01:39:43,031

What is this, the Death Star?

:

01:39:43,550 --> 01:39:43,960

Like, what?

:

01:39:44,001 --> 01:39:50,291

I mean, I, I don't So, while all

that's happening, by the way Shaw,

:

01:39:50,421 --> 01:39:53,960

also seemingly afraid of this

explosion, throws Annie into the water.

:

01:39:54,001 --> 01:39:54,391

Yeah.

:

01:39:54,550 --> 01:39:56,901

Like, he's like, yes, it's

going to blow, they're right.

:

01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:58,341

How he can hear them, I don't know.

:

01:39:58,531 --> 01:40:00,911

Which, by the way, I think I

mentioned later I'll mention it again.

:

01:40:01,061 --> 01:40:03,221

There's a point when he's in the

water, and the guy's giving him

:

01:40:03,221 --> 01:40:06,130

directions on what to do, and

he can hear him, in the water.

:

01:40:07,031 --> 01:40:09,210

Like, he doesn't have a radio in

his ear, the guy's just yelling,

:

01:40:09,701 --> 01:40:10,531

Pull the

:

01:40:10,531 --> 01:40:10,630

Jerome: lever!

:

01:40:10,630 --> 01:40:12,091

And he's in the water, and he can hear it.

:

01:40:12,361 --> 01:40:12,380

Yeah.

:

01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:13,821

Okay, whatever.

:

01:40:15,141 --> 01:40:17,951

Alright so he throws Annie in the water.

:

01:40:18,331 --> 01:40:19,550

And then he goes in after her.

:

01:40:20,300 --> 01:40:25,121

When he comes up, She's

suddenly very far away from him.

:

01:40:25,351 --> 01:40:27,011

Now, get this, they're on the pontoon.

:

01:40:27,321 --> 01:40:29,771

He throws her in the water, and

then he jumps in right after her.

:

01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:30,161

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:40:30,231 --> 01:40:31,001

Jerome: Into the water.

:

01:40:31,050 --> 01:40:33,851

When he comes up, she's like 30 feet away!

:

01:40:33,851 --> 01:40:35,731

Like, how did she get that far from him?

:

01:40:35,941 --> 01:40:37,651

They jumped in the same spot!

:

01:40:38,306 --> 01:40:40,654

But, whatever, okay, it doesn't,

it doesn't matter, it doesn't

:

01:40:40,654 --> 01:40:41,526

matter, it doesn't matter.

:

01:40:42,005 --> 01:40:43,626

There's a heavy current,

I guess, I don't know.

:

01:40:43,675 --> 01:40:48,316

He swims to her, and then he has to kiss

her so that she can breathe underwater.

:

01:40:48,696 --> 01:40:51,936

You know, not take her up to the

surface so that she can breathe.

:

01:40:52,386 --> 01:40:57,236

He's just gonna cover her mouth with

his mouth, like he's fucking Kevin

:

01:40:57,236 --> 01:41:01,286

Costner in Waterworld, and somehow

breathe for her by kissing her.

:

01:41:02,946 --> 01:41:05,996

Then they come up for air, and

if we didn't have already enough

:

01:41:05,996 --> 01:41:10,376

coincidences, Who is there Johnny

on the spot right when they come up?

:

01:41:10,666 --> 01:41:17,916

Maurice and his speedboat to collect both

them and they get the diamonds, of course.

:

01:41:19,446 --> 01:41:23,236

Okay, so By the way,

that tanker does explode.

:

01:41:23,585 --> 01:41:23,846

Yeah.

:

01:41:23,936 --> 01:41:30,286

The Geiger's plane does somehow cause a

Death Star like chain reaction through

:

01:41:30,286 --> 01:41:32,746

an antenna that blows up the oil tanker.

:

01:41:33,516 --> 01:41:35,896

All those innocent lives lost.

:

01:41:37,486 --> 01:41:39,386

So anyway, they're on their

speedboat heading back to

:

01:41:39,386 --> 01:41:41,736

civilization and Shaw proposes!

:

01:41:42,255 --> 01:41:43,856

He's got the courage now.

:

01:41:43,946 --> 01:41:46,116

Spiritual goal, spiritual

goal, spiritual goal.

:

01:41:46,496 --> 01:41:47,726

And he says yes.

:

01:41:48,536 --> 01:41:52,116

And finally, thankfully, the film ends.

:

01:41:53,496 --> 01:41:54,566

Closing image.

:

01:41:55,276 --> 01:41:56,366

The ship has stopped.

:

01:41:56,376 --> 01:41:57,986

It's crashed into a small town.

:

01:41:58,236 --> 01:42:01,425

Stark contrast to the high

speed chase that opens the film.

:

01:42:01,466 --> 01:42:02,696

I was reaching on this one.

:

01:42:02,746 --> 01:42:03,246

I don't know.

:

01:42:03,566 --> 01:42:05,255

I'm just trying to grasp it.

:

01:42:05,296 --> 01:42:06,736

What would be a closing image?

:

01:42:07,406 --> 01:42:08,866

All right, note sign character.

:

01:42:10,326 --> 01:42:13,556

Chris: Well, the final scene was Sandra

Bullock retaking her driving test.

:

01:42:14,246 --> 01:42:15,186

Jerome: Oh, yes, you're right

:

01:42:15,206 --> 01:42:18,626

Chris: and then it fades to black or

goes to black then you hear it crash

:

01:42:20,496 --> 01:42:22,516

The car crashed because apparently I

:

01:42:22,516 --> 01:42:25,181

Jerome: think that's a post

credit thing Like they do with

:

01:42:25,181 --> 01:42:25,621

Chris: Marvel.

:

01:42:25,630 --> 01:42:27,481

Jerome: No, because I

didn't watch the credits.

:

01:42:27,781 --> 01:42:30,181

I think it, well, I think

they're showing the ship when

:

01:42:30,181 --> 01:42:32,171

it says directed by Yann DuBont.

:

01:42:32,251 --> 01:42:36,071

And they start doing credits, but then

they do that thing where they show her.

:

01:42:36,380 --> 01:42:37,261

Fail her driving test.

:

01:42:37,261 --> 01:42:38,171

But as soon as the credits

:

01:42:38,171 --> 01:42:39,541

Chris: started rolling, I turned it off.

:

01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:41,781

But it was just funny.

:

01:42:42,416 --> 01:42:49,696

But that puts the exclamation

point on the chauvinistic bent that

:

01:42:49,696 --> 01:42:51,556

the writing had for this movie.

:

01:42:51,986 --> 01:42:52,766

Yeah, she can't drive.

:

01:42:52,766 --> 01:42:54,966

Because, you know, this

dumb woman can't drive.

:

01:42:55,026 --> 01:42:55,866

Of course.

:

01:42:55,876 --> 01:42:57,376

Why would she be able to drive?

:

01:42:57,876 --> 01:43:00,606

She had to retake her test

after all this trauma.

:

01:43:00,636 --> 01:43:02,476

And of course, she still can't drive.

:

01:43:02,476 --> 01:43:03,736

I mean, she's a woman after all.

:

01:43:03,746 --> 01:43:04,386

Jerome: She's a woman.

:

01:43:04,386 --> 01:43:05,226

She can't drive.

:

01:43:05,585 --> 01:43:08,052

And she can't be expected to

do anything during crisis.

:

01:43:08,052 --> 01:43:08,830

It's so bad,

:

01:43:08,830 --> 01:43:09,089

Chris: man.

:

01:43:09,089 --> 01:43:11,436

Jerome: So we write her to

do nothing during crisis.

:

01:43:11,466 --> 01:43:12,576

Chris: It made me angry.

:

01:43:12,591 --> 01:43:17,321

I was like, I have three daughters and a

wife and they're all very capable women.

:

01:43:17,741 --> 01:43:21,331

Jerome: I've got two daughters and a

wife and both of my daughters would

:

01:43:21,341 --> 01:43:25,291

be far more efficient on this boat

than Sandra Bullock was written to.

:

01:43:25,300 --> 01:43:27,791

Chris: I mean, I would dare say

my wife's a better driver than me,

:

01:43:27,791 --> 01:43:29,341

but that might not be saying much.

:

01:43:31,161 --> 01:43:32,031

Jerome: I've seen you drive.

:

01:43:34,641 --> 01:43:35,791

So notes on character.

:

01:43:35,791 --> 01:43:39,671

A major problem with the characters

in this film is the lack of interest.

:

01:43:40,261 --> 01:43:43,241

We don't care about these people at all.

:

01:43:44,505 --> 01:43:47,616

I would suspect most audience members

don't care about these people.

:

01:43:48,056 --> 01:43:50,005

Now, we've talked about

flat arcs in the past.

:

01:43:50,656 --> 01:43:53,976

You know, where they themselves

don't really change, but the world

:

01:43:53,976 --> 01:43:58,656

around them does, you know or how

the people, how the world sees them.

:

01:43:59,085 --> 01:44:02,835

We talked about Paul Schrader's

scripts, like Taxi Driver, Raging

:

01:44:02,835 --> 01:44:07,606

Bull, Mosquito Coast, Affliction,

Superman is always like this, right?

:

01:44:07,606 --> 01:44:08,656

Superman's a flat arc.

:

01:44:08,656 --> 01:44:10,046

Superman doesn't learn lessons.

:

01:44:10,056 --> 01:44:12,886

He's already perfect and he's

always perfect, but the world

:

01:44:12,886 --> 01:44:14,126

around him seems to change.

:

01:44:15,341 --> 01:44:18,171

So, I guess you could argue that

this is some sort of a flat arc?

:

01:44:18,361 --> 01:44:18,971

Maybe?

:

01:44:19,521 --> 01:44:21,151

Cause these characters don't arc at all.

:

01:44:21,550 --> 01:44:22,061

They really don't.

:

01:44:22,351 --> 01:44:23,931

And they really don't affect

the world around them in any

:

01:44:23,931 --> 01:44:25,550

spiritual or impactful way either.

:

01:44:25,831 --> 01:44:27,800

I mean, what lesson does

Annie learn, really?

:

01:44:27,911 --> 01:44:29,141

What lesson does Annie learn?

:

01:44:29,641 --> 01:44:31,550

It's clear at the beginning that

she doesn't want to get married.

:

01:44:32,321 --> 01:44:35,451

And that she fears commitment, as she

hints, with the relationships that

:

01:44:35,451 --> 01:44:37,130

are born under extreme circumstances.

:

01:44:37,141 --> 01:44:40,841

Her relationship with Shaw started

before this, so that was not an

:

01:44:40,841 --> 01:44:42,761

extreme circumstance, as we said.

:

01:44:43,071 --> 01:44:48,101

And even after the extreme circumstance,

even after this adventure which has

:

01:44:48,111 --> 01:44:49,931

zero emotional shifts, by the way.

:

01:44:50,141 --> 01:44:52,951

It's not like one scene she's like,

oh, I love you, and another scene she's

:

01:44:52,951 --> 01:44:54,911

like, oh, I can't, you're too reckless.

:

01:44:54,941 --> 01:44:55,391

You know what I mean?

:

01:44:55,391 --> 01:44:57,581

Like, I, there, there

is no back and forth.

:

01:44:58,091 --> 01:44:59,911

She doesn't want to get

married the entire time.

:

01:45:00,071 --> 01:45:02,761

Suddenly at the end, when he pops

the question, she's just like,

:

01:45:03,221 --> 01:45:04,741

Okay, yeah, let's get married.

:

01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:07,300

Like, what did you learn?

:

01:45:07,311 --> 01:45:11,411

Chris: Yeah, right after we had this,

would she say traumatic circumstance?

:

01:45:11,521 --> 01:45:11,601

Yeah,

:

01:45:12,121 --> 01:45:14,161

Jerome: we just had the one

thing you hated, now all of a

:

01:45:14,161 --> 01:45:16,351

sudden you are embracing, right?

:

01:45:16,871 --> 01:45:17,621

There's no growth.

:

01:45:18,691 --> 01:45:21,891

Now, at worst, she could just

be like, like you said, PTSD.

:

01:45:21,931 --> 01:45:23,431

She could be in shock right now.

:

01:45:23,471 --> 01:45:25,571

So she's saying yes to a

marriage while she's in shock.

:

01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:28,671

So kind of a dick move on Shaw's

part to propose at that moment.

:

01:45:28,741 --> 01:45:29,111

Right.

:

01:45:29,161 --> 01:45:31,411

When you know that

she's not of sound mind.

:

01:45:31,861 --> 01:45:32,171

Right?

:

01:45:32,441 --> 01:45:33,081

But whatever.

:

01:45:33,141 --> 01:45:33,471

Okay.

:

01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:34,261

I don't know.

:

01:45:34,291 --> 01:45:35,181

She didn't learn anything.

:

01:45:35,581 --> 01:45:36,591

What about Shaw's arc?

:

01:45:36,951 --> 01:45:37,941

What lesson does he learn?

:

01:45:38,441 --> 01:45:41,681

It seems all he wants is to have

the courage to ask her to marry him.

:

01:45:41,701 --> 01:45:45,611

That's his only seemingly problem

throughout this whole film, is he never

:

01:45:45,611 --> 01:45:47,791

has the balls to ask her to marry him.

:

01:45:48,171 --> 01:45:51,671

He keeps chickening out, and then he

whines about it later, and he whines

:

01:45:51,681 --> 01:45:53,061

about her not wanting to get married.

:

01:45:53,321 --> 01:45:57,351

He clearly doesn't get the picture,

or thinks that he can change her,

:

01:45:57,591 --> 01:46:00,441

or mansplain her into marrying him.

:

01:46:00,681 --> 01:46:01,451

Right?

:

01:46:01,550 --> 01:46:04,081

Because really, all he really

does is wear her down by the end.

:

01:46:05,641 --> 01:46:08,811

So again, another sort of

male chauvinist thing like she

:

01:46:08,811 --> 01:46:09,800

doesn't want to get married.

:

01:46:09,981 --> 01:46:13,151

I'll just keep pushing until

she does, you know, or whatever.

:

01:46:13,151 --> 01:46:13,491

I don't know.

:

01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,831

The life threatening journey is over and

he pops the question and she says yes.

:

01:46:18,421 --> 01:46:19,591

All, that's what I put here.

:

01:46:19,591 --> 01:46:20,710

All he had to do was wear her down.

:

01:46:20,781 --> 01:46:21,721

That's his spiritual goal.

:

01:46:22,841 --> 01:46:25,405

If we were to rewrite this,

it could have been fixed.

:

01:46:25,405 --> 01:46:26,625

Are you ready for this?

:

01:46:26,625 --> 01:46:26,869

Yeah.

:

01:46:26,869 --> 01:46:30,041

I'm going to blow your mind

how we could have made Speed 2.

:

01:46:34,281 --> 01:46:35,901

What if Shaw wasn't a cop?

:

01:46:36,611 --> 01:46:40,581

What if, in fact, he was

like a meek computer nerd?

:

01:46:41,471 --> 01:46:41,901

Right?

:

01:46:42,731 --> 01:46:46,591

And he's unsure about marriage

because he's so boring.

:

01:46:46,971 --> 01:46:50,281

Her previous relationship

was Jack Traven, right?

:

01:46:50,331 --> 01:46:52,571

Super cop from the first Speed movie.

:

01:46:52,571 --> 01:46:53,341

It's too bad he died

:

01:46:53,341 --> 01:46:54,251

Chris: in the line of duty.

:

01:46:56,371 --> 01:46:58,550

I'm just saying, I'm just

saying that's fucking dark.

:

01:46:58,601 --> 01:47:01,121

Oh, I'm just saying they could

have wrote that into the story.

:

01:47:01,130 --> 01:47:02,531

That's why she's not with them anymore.

:

01:47:02,541 --> 01:47:02,880

Jerome: Right.

:

01:47:02,901 --> 01:47:05,071

So he, I was like, Jesus,

where did that come from?

:

01:47:05,111 --> 01:47:05,691

So, okay.

:

01:47:05,931 --> 01:47:07,351

So yeah, let's say he died.

:

01:47:07,696 --> 01:47:13,226

Or whatever, and, and now, she's stuck

with this boring dude, and he's so, it's

:

01:47:13,516 --> 01:47:16,536

kind of like True Lies, right, where

Jamie Lee Curtis thinks she's married to

:

01:47:16,536 --> 01:47:21,136

a nerdy computer guy and she doesn't want

to marry him because of that, she wants

:

01:47:21,136 --> 01:47:25,486

adventure in her life, and then they go

on this cruise, and a bad guy has taken

:

01:47:25,486 --> 01:47:30,226

over, and they know it's a bad guy from

early on, not, you know, an hour into

:

01:47:30,226 --> 01:47:34,496

the movie, But they know their lives

are in danger, and he saves them all.

:

01:47:35,316 --> 01:47:40,276

And then that is her spiritual,

I, I'm, you know, well,

:

01:47:40,316 --> 01:47:41,856

actually it's his spiritual arc.

:

01:47:41,966 --> 01:47:45,476

He has overcome his nerdy

shyness and become a fucking

:

01:47:45,486 --> 01:47:46,026

Chris: hero.

:

01:47:46,036 --> 01:47:49,726

That would have been superior to

this movie, especially if they would

:

01:47:49,726 --> 01:47:51,886

have rewrote her, her character.

:

01:47:52,425 --> 01:47:54,236

And actually gave her something to do.

:

01:47:54,246 --> 01:47:55,786

Jerome: She would need an arc too.

:

01:47:55,856 --> 01:47:56,206

Chris: Yeah.

:

01:47:56,286 --> 01:47:56,636

Jerome: Right?

:

01:47:56,656 --> 01:48:00,456

So, not just that she's with a boring

guy and she wishes he was exciting,

:

01:48:00,706 --> 01:48:03,585

but what if, You know, I don't know.

:

01:48:03,585 --> 01:48:09,396

She needs to arc somehow, you know,

maybe she loves the exciting cop idea

:

01:48:09,456 --> 01:48:13,316

because she herself is boring and she

doesn't want to be with a boring person.

:

01:48:13,516 --> 01:48:17,835

So on this journey of this extreme

circumstance, not only does Shaw

:

01:48:17,886 --> 01:48:22,436

man up and become a man and save

the hostages, she mans up and maybe

:

01:48:22,436 --> 01:48:26,111

she fights the villain in the end

and Kills them or whatever and

:

01:48:26,111 --> 01:48:28,161

that's her like I'm not boring.

:

01:48:28,171 --> 01:48:29,891

I can be you know what I mean?

:

01:48:29,891 --> 01:48:32,641

I can Do something in this movie.

:

01:48:32,651 --> 01:48:35,451

Well, it's funny because she did

she had more of a role in the

:

01:48:35,451 --> 01:48:36,471

Chris: first movie

:

01:48:36,601 --> 01:48:38,411

She was way more instrumental, right?

:

01:48:39,011 --> 01:48:39,311

Right

:

01:48:39,321 --> 01:48:42,741

Chris: because I mean she was being

fed information about what to do,

:

01:48:43,021 --> 01:48:45,351

but still she had to do it Yeah,

:

01:48:45,431 --> 01:48:45,761

Jerome: you know,

:

01:48:45,771 --> 01:48:46,460

Chris: absolutely.

:

01:48:47,011 --> 01:48:48,591

Jerome: And she had the balls to do it!

:

01:48:48,781 --> 01:48:51,601

She was way stronger in the first

movie than she was in the second movie.

:

01:48:52,491 --> 01:48:55,210

Alright, so if we move to

Geiger's motivation he developed

:

01:48:55,210 --> 01:48:58,471

an illness, he needs leeches

because of his copper poisoning.

:

01:48:58,971 --> 01:49:02,351

Also like I said, it's basically a rip off

of the villain in the first movie, right?

:

01:49:02,401 --> 01:49:04,960

Dennis Hopper was a disgruntled

former cop, lost his thumb.

:

01:49:05,571 --> 01:49:07,321

So they kind of do the same

thing with the foe here.

:

01:49:07,411 --> 01:49:08,241

Problems with the script.

:

01:49:08,671 --> 01:49:09,941

So Mac returns.

:

01:49:10,621 --> 01:49:14,811

Joel Morton, by the way,

who's in T2, as Miles Dyson.

:

01:49:15,021 --> 01:49:15,321

Right.

:

01:49:15,561 --> 01:49:16,471

But here's the weird part.

:

01:49:17,031 --> 01:49:21,661

It appears that Shaw only knows

who Jack is through Annie.

:

01:49:22,361 --> 01:49:23,981

But they have the same boss.

:

01:49:25,541 --> 01:49:26,501

Like, right?

:

01:49:27,380 --> 01:49:27,701

Yeah.

:

01:49:28,171 --> 01:49:29,901

There's no other mention of Jack.

:

01:49:31,191 --> 01:49:32,431

I don't know, it just seems weird.

:

01:49:32,441 --> 01:49:37,001

And if they did know each other, then

Annie's kind of a cop slut, right?

:

01:49:37,561 --> 01:49:38,831

Like, jumps from cop to cop.

:

01:49:38,971 --> 01:49:41,050

Like, this would be a buddy of his.

:

01:49:41,081 --> 01:49:42,811

Cops are like a brotherhood, right?

:

01:49:43,421 --> 01:49:45,710

You don't jump from

one cop to another cop.

:

01:49:45,831 --> 01:49:46,641

That's not cool.

:

01:49:46,771 --> 01:49:47,401

Some do.

:

01:49:47,401 --> 01:49:49,630

I guess.

:

01:49:50,096 --> 01:49:50,546

I don't know.

:

01:49:50,916 --> 01:49:52,476

I thought that was weak for Annie.

:

01:49:52,526 --> 01:49:55,335

Again, we're already talking about

how bad the script is for Annie.

:

01:49:55,396 --> 01:49:55,596

Yeah.

:

01:49:55,626 --> 01:49:59,056

How they write her as such a shitty

person that now, because they didn't

:

01:49:59,056 --> 01:50:02,496

get Keanu, we'll just write another cop

and we'll just have her be with him.

:

01:50:03,675 --> 01:50:05,696

Which would be fine, but they use Mac.

:

01:50:06,380 --> 01:50:07,791

So he's the boss.

:

01:50:08,300 --> 01:50:08,661

I don't know.

:

01:50:08,661 --> 01:50:09,491

It just seemed odd to me.

:

01:50:09,491 --> 01:50:10,761

It was like, how do they

not know each other?

:

01:50:10,761 --> 01:50:12,241

How are they not friends then, right?

:

01:50:12,550 --> 01:50:12,841

Yeah,

:

01:50:13,101 --> 01:50:13,451

Chris: yeah.

:

01:50:13,981 --> 01:50:15,191

Jerome: Is that how Annie met?

:

01:50:15,931 --> 01:50:16,710

Through Jack.

:

01:50:17,251 --> 01:50:21,111

I mean, I might have to, I'd have

to suffer watching this again to go

:

01:50:21,111 --> 01:50:23,671

through and see if there was a line

of dialogue or something I missed

:

01:50:23,671 --> 01:50:25,701

that maybe she met Shaw through Jack?

:

01:50:25,731 --> 01:50:26,261

I don't know.

:

01:50:26,281 --> 01:50:26,991

I don't think so.

:

01:50:27,261 --> 01:50:27,891

Chris: Yeah, it's funny.

:

01:50:27,921 --> 01:50:29,761

IMDB says he's uncredited.

:

01:50:30,591 --> 01:50:31,171

Jerome: Yeah, so he's

:

01:50:32,581 --> 01:50:33,630

He didn't want his name on it.

:

01:50:34,621 --> 01:50:35,391

Chris: That's crazy.

:

01:50:36,931 --> 01:50:37,541

Jerome: Okay.

:

01:50:38,050 --> 01:50:38,441

Okay.

:

01:50:38,451 --> 01:50:41,391

So, like I said, this movie

is loaded with coincidence.

:

01:50:41,981 --> 01:50:44,710

The Shaw cop scene at the

beginning with Annie's driving

:

01:50:44,751 --> 01:50:46,050

intersecting and all that stuff.

:

01:50:46,061 --> 01:50:48,161

All the times they bump into

Geiger, blah, blah, blah.

:

01:50:48,721 --> 01:50:51,151

There seems to be no consequence

for getting off the boat.

:

01:50:51,171 --> 01:50:53,661

The villain even tells Giuliano

to get the passengers off.

:

01:50:53,661 --> 01:50:54,471

We talked about that.

:

01:50:54,991 --> 01:50:56,761

If that's the case, there's no stakes.

:

01:50:56,811 --> 01:50:57,751

There's no tensions.

:

01:50:57,791 --> 01:51:00,321

Protagonists can leave whenever they want.

:

01:51:00,321 --> 01:51:01,181

There's no urgency.

:

01:51:01,811 --> 01:51:04,651

When problems do arise,

nobody calls for help.

:

01:51:05,371 --> 01:51:09,901

I think Geiger says something later

that he scrambled communications,

:

01:51:10,091 --> 01:51:11,630

but he doesn't say it until later.

:

01:51:11,861 --> 01:51:13,261

Like, how do we as an audience know?

:

01:51:13,441 --> 01:51:15,501

Like, when this shit's starting to

go on, you're thinking, why isn't

:

01:51:15,501 --> 01:51:17,761

the captain or Giuliano or anybody?

:

01:51:18,186 --> 01:51:18,996

Call the police.

:

01:51:19,036 --> 01:51:20,376

Why is nobody calling for help?

:

01:51:21,076 --> 01:51:21,716

You know what I mean?

:

01:51:22,085 --> 01:51:23,246

It just seems weird.

:

01:51:23,316 --> 01:51:26,476

Annie's driving test failure at the

beginning is a setup with no payoff.

:

01:51:26,476 --> 01:51:27,335

We talked about that.

:

01:51:27,626 --> 01:51:30,786

She doesn't steer the boat

later when it's like necessary.

:

01:51:31,175 --> 01:51:34,146

You know, all that would have been a

good setup and payoff doesn't happen.

:

01:51:34,616 --> 01:51:37,996

Annie has virtually no

jobs to do in this movie.

:

01:51:38,496 --> 01:51:41,766

Which again is so astounding being

that she's the above the title lead.

:

01:51:42,451 --> 01:51:42,710

Yeah.

:

01:51:42,731 --> 01:51:45,571

The star from the first movie,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

:

01:51:46,521 --> 01:51:47,721

Where she had a lot to do.

:

01:51:48,451 --> 01:51:50,001

Yeah, Shaw, yeah.

:

01:51:50,221 --> 01:51:52,971

Shaw and Giuliano at one point

have to have this idea that

:

01:51:52,971 --> 01:51:53,911

they want to flood the ship.

:

01:51:54,300 --> 01:51:58,491

Of course, Geiger has disabled the

ship and only he has control of things.

:

01:51:59,231 --> 01:52:02,630

Like the T2 thing, how can they

turn the keys or use the elevator

:

01:52:02,630 --> 01:52:04,151

if the building's on lockdown?

:

01:52:04,741 --> 01:52:07,050

Geiger supposedly has

complete control of the ship.

:

01:52:08,011 --> 01:52:08,821

How are they gonna flood it?

:

01:52:10,021 --> 01:52:12,911

They go and they're like, oh,

we'll set these one gauges

:

01:52:12,911 --> 01:52:13,941

and we'll do this one thing.

:

01:52:14,181 --> 01:52:15,251

How can you do any of that?

:

01:52:16,356 --> 01:52:19,786

I mean, outside of puncturing a

hole in the bottom of the boat,

:

01:52:20,255 --> 01:52:21,326

how are you gonna flood the ship?

:

01:52:21,886 --> 01:52:22,196

I don't know.

:

01:52:22,356 --> 01:52:25,956

Anyway the morning after all this shit

hits the fan, like the first half of the

:

01:52:25,956 --> 01:52:29,386

movie's at night time, and then like,

all of a sudden it's daytime, right?

:

01:52:29,406 --> 01:52:30,696

Like, it's like the next morning.

:

01:52:30,936 --> 01:52:31,335

Mm hmm.

:

01:52:31,626 --> 01:52:33,076

Geiger is is shown.

:

01:52:33,085 --> 01:52:35,766

He's sort of mulling around

the boat with no purpose.

:

01:52:36,576 --> 01:52:37,476

Like, all night.

:

01:52:38,841 --> 01:52:39,941

He wasn't doing anything.

:

01:52:40,050 --> 01:52:42,011

Maybe he's getting the leeches

for sucking him, I don't know.

:

01:52:42,501 --> 01:52:43,251

He wasn't doing anything.

:

01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:46,081

Again, Shaw can hear direction

when he's underwater.

:

01:52:46,691 --> 01:52:48,581

Finally, the ending Which is my problem.

:

01:52:48,581 --> 01:52:50,771

How does that little plane

hitting an antenna cause an

:

01:52:50,771 --> 01:52:51,941

entire freighter to explode?

:

01:52:52,141 --> 01:52:53,661

So we talked about a lot of these.

:

01:52:54,241 --> 01:52:56,371

These are obviously major issues.

:

01:52:56,451 --> 01:52:57,791

This is why the movie sucks.

:

01:52:57,851 --> 01:52:59,691

But, the movie sucks!

:

01:52:59,951 --> 01:53:01,661

Even if it was a standalone film.

:

01:53:01,861 --> 01:53:05,210

Even if they had just called this movie

Cruise Control and didn't call it Speed 2.

:

01:53:05,831 --> 01:53:06,701

The movie sucks.

:

01:53:07,151 --> 01:53:09,861

But, let's get to why we're here today.

:

01:53:10,311 --> 01:53:12,701

We've spent enough time dicking around.

:

01:53:12,941 --> 01:53:14,041

Let's get to it.

:

01:53:14,311 --> 01:53:16,081

What makes a good sequel?

:

01:53:16,571 --> 01:53:22,921

I introduce to you my friend,

Jerome's Sequel Gauntlet.

:

01:53:23,210 --> 01:53:28,601

I have come up with five points of

criteria that will make a good sequel.

:

01:53:29,721 --> 01:53:35,351

Number one, the protagonists from the

first film must return with the same or

:

01:53:35,361 --> 01:53:37,671

bigger stakes the second time around.

:

01:53:38,371 --> 01:53:44,800

Die Hard 2, Lethal Weapon 2, Godfather 2,

Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, Superman 2,

:

01:53:44,921 --> 01:53:51,341

Rocky 2, Star Trek 2, The Wrath of Khan,

among others, all check off this box.

:

01:53:51,721 --> 01:53:52,471

T2?

:

01:53:52,561 --> 01:53:56,351

Absolutely, the future of the world

depends on our hero's success.

:

01:53:56,861 --> 01:53:57,731

Speed 2?

:

01:54:01,071 --> 01:54:03,701

The protagonist, Keanu,

doesn't even return.

:

01:54:03,791 --> 01:54:04,901

He's not even in the sequel.

:

01:54:05,181 --> 01:54:06,991

So, how can his stakes be even bigger?

:

01:54:08,321 --> 01:54:12,800

Number two, the villain must be

deadlier than the first, or at least

:

01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:17,661

have the same strong motivation

for tormenting the protagonist.

:

01:54:17,981 --> 01:54:22,300

Die Hard 3, actually, I think is

better, is a better sequel to Die Hard

:

01:54:22,321 --> 01:54:26,441

2, because the villain in Die Hard

3 directly links to the first movie.

:

01:54:27,221 --> 01:54:30,281

Lethal Weapon 2, because

the premise is better.

:

01:54:30,616 --> 01:54:33,156

How do you arrest a criminal

who has diplomatic immunity?

:

01:54:33,576 --> 01:54:36,946

Godfather 2, despite the usual

adversaries, Michael has a

:

01:54:36,946 --> 01:54:38,536

traitor in his own family.

:

01:54:39,066 --> 01:54:42,476

Empire Strikes Back, Vader

has special news for Luke.

:

01:54:43,376 --> 01:54:46,546

Aliens, why fight one when

you can fight a thousand?

:

01:54:47,376 --> 01:54:49,046

Superman 2, Lex Luthor?

:

01:54:49,335 --> 01:54:50,976

How about three supervillains?

:

01:54:51,210 --> 01:54:51,521

Right.

:

01:54:51,581 --> 01:54:53,651

That all have the same powers he has.

:

01:54:54,061 --> 01:54:54,781

Rocky 2?

:

01:54:55,241 --> 01:54:59,481

Pissed off Apollo isn't taking this fight

lightly like he did in the first one.

:

01:54:59,591 --> 01:55:01,331

He's super training for it.

:

01:55:01,901 --> 01:55:02,831

Wrath of Khan?

:

01:55:02,981 --> 01:55:07,671

Possibly the most dangerous threat

of any of the Star Trek episodes.

:

01:55:08,071 --> 01:55:11,981

This guy comes back and he has

superior intellect and strength.

:

01:55:14,841 --> 01:55:15,501

What did I leave off?

:

01:55:15,571 --> 01:55:17,761

Oh, they all do this very well.

:

01:55:17,811 --> 01:55:20,161

They all check off these

boxes and so does T2.

:

01:55:20,891 --> 01:55:25,141

The T:

upgrade over the T800, right?

:

01:55:25,151 --> 01:55:25,471

Right.

:

01:55:25,791 --> 01:55:26,710

Speed too?

:

01:55:27,886 --> 01:55:28,076

No.

:

01:55:29,816 --> 01:55:34,496

The villain who seemingly gets crazier

as the movie goes on really just

:

01:55:34,496 --> 01:55:39,486

wants to destroy the ship He doesn't

care if the people get on or get off.

:

01:55:39,835 --> 01:55:40,755

There's no stakes.

:

01:55:40,755 --> 01:55:41,456

No urgency.

:

01:55:41,456 --> 01:55:46,996

No danger No connection to the first

movie villain and as a sickly dying man

:

01:55:47,326 --> 01:55:49,286

Doesn't really pose much of a threat.

:

01:55:49,696 --> 01:55:57,425

He can't even fly his own getaway plane

with any accuracy Number three the

:

01:55:57,466 --> 01:56:04,216

sequel is a natural progression of the

original story Basically, is it needed?

:

01:56:05,316 --> 01:56:10,856

James Bond, Harry Potter, Star Wars,

Star Trek, and overall cop movies

:

01:56:10,856 --> 01:56:14,946

like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon can

continue to have added sequels in

:

01:56:14,946 --> 01:56:19,226

the franchise because they're simply

new adventures for the heroes, right?

:

01:56:19,696 --> 01:56:24,341

Having said that, Empire Strikes Back

Wrath of Khan and Die Hard 3 directly

:

01:56:24,351 --> 01:56:29,831

link the villain already introduced in

prior films, Harry Potter as well, and

:

01:56:29,831 --> 01:56:31,841

it is a natural progression to continue.

:

01:56:31,951 --> 01:56:33,001

Same with Lord of the Rings.

:

01:56:33,541 --> 01:56:37,221

As does Rocky, where villain

Apollo insists on a rematch.

:

01:56:37,441 --> 01:56:41,891

Godfather 2, Superman 2, and Aliens

certainly spark the what happens

:

01:56:41,891 --> 01:56:43,751

next thoughts after the first movie.

:

01:56:44,146 --> 01:56:47,326

actually provide even more texture

than the first film, right?

:

01:56:47,596 --> 01:56:52,596

In T2, the arm and microchip left

behind from the first film led to what

:

01:56:52,606 --> 01:56:54,306

happens in the second movie, right?

:

01:56:55,005 --> 01:56:55,626

Speed 2?

:

01:56:58,036 --> 01:57:02,156

Even if you wanted to argue Shaw is a

cop, so this is simply another adventure

:

01:57:02,156 --> 01:57:05,876

that happens to him, like John McClane

in Die Hard 2, here's the problem.

:

01:57:05,916 --> 01:57:07,716

Shaw's not the protagonist

of the first film.

:

01:57:08,226 --> 01:57:12,166

He's an add on in the second film,

with no progression, no connective

:

01:57:12,166 --> 01:57:16,286

tissue to the first film, and he is

no cop, so this just happening to

:

01:57:16,286 --> 01:57:18,925

her, again, is straight coincidence.

:

01:57:19,931 --> 01:57:23,021

With no credibility at all.

:

01:57:23,701 --> 01:57:24,541

Number four.

:

01:57:24,871 --> 01:57:29,651

The climax must trump the first

movie's climax and leave the audience

:

01:57:29,741 --> 01:57:33,630

gasping with either delight or sadness.

:

01:57:34,851 --> 01:57:38,741

The climaxes of both Die Hard 2

and Lethal Weapon 2 are on par with

:

01:57:38,741 --> 01:57:40,460

each other and their first films.

:

01:57:40,491 --> 01:57:42,331

Again, cop franchises.

:

01:57:42,831 --> 01:57:43,771

This is bound to happen.

:

01:57:43,880 --> 01:57:46,771

The likability of the

leads only gets stronger.

:

01:57:47,491 --> 01:57:51,311

Empire Strikes Back, Godfather

Part 2, and Wrath of Khan

:

01:57:51,321 --> 01:57:53,460

have all bittersweet endings.

:

01:57:53,781 --> 01:57:57,800

Sad endings, where despite the

heroes surviving, someone close to

:

01:57:57,800 --> 01:58:03,491

them has died, frozen in carbonite,

or betrayed a family member.

:

01:58:04,121 --> 01:58:07,081

Aliens, Rocky 2, Superman 2, and T2.

:

01:58:07,421 --> 01:58:12,071

Have far greater climactic cinematic

appeal than their predecessors.

:

01:58:13,061 --> 01:58:13,571

Speed 2?

:

01:58:16,021 --> 01:58:19,861

Despite the gratuitous eye candy of

an oil tanker explosion and watching a

:

01:58:19,861 --> 01:58:24,901

cruise ship crash into land, there's no

victorious ending that leads audiences

:

01:58:25,130 --> 01:58:26,811

to want to like leap to their feet.

:

01:58:26,861 --> 01:58:28,981

Like Keanu in Speed 1, right?

:

01:58:29,531 --> 01:58:31,981

Keanu wins the subway scene, right?

:

01:58:31,981 --> 01:58:33,960

Once they're off the

bus and in the subway.

:

01:58:34,441 --> 01:58:37,971

Shaw and Annie just sort of fall

out of danger in the sequel.

:

01:58:38,121 --> 01:58:39,880

There's not much of a victory there.

:

01:58:39,880 --> 01:58:42,306

They just sort of Fall into safety.

:

01:58:42,956 --> 01:58:44,236

They don't defeat Giger.

:

01:58:44,326 --> 01:58:46,436

He defeats himself with stupidity.

:

01:58:48,186 --> 01:58:50,916

Fifth and final element of the sequel.

:

01:58:51,425 --> 01:58:52,686

Jerome's sequel gauntlet.

:

01:58:53,906 --> 01:58:57,936

Is there a strong spiritual

goal arc for the protagonist?

:

01:58:58,646 --> 01:59:02,216

We already discussed in the Fargo

episode the concept of the flat arc.

:

01:59:02,226 --> 01:59:03,786

You see a lot in cop movies.

:

01:59:04,076 --> 01:59:05,826

Where the cop doesn't change much.

:

01:59:06,106 --> 01:59:08,675

They're kind of the same person at

the end as they are at the beginning.

:

01:59:08,956 --> 01:59:10,406

Superman is like this.

:

01:59:10,835 --> 01:59:11,776

They all get a pass.

:

01:59:12,585 --> 01:59:13,886

Let's take a look at a few other of those.

:

01:59:14,436 --> 01:59:15,056

A few others.

:

01:59:15,056 --> 01:59:15,505

Are you ready?

:

01:59:16,126 --> 01:59:17,396

Ripley in Aliens.

:

01:59:17,886 --> 01:59:21,936

Mistrust of people, particularly

androids, due to the first movie.

:

01:59:22,166 --> 01:59:26,085

Learns to trust Bishop and fulfill

the missing piece of her life.

:

01:59:26,266 --> 01:59:27,335

A daughter figure.

:

01:59:27,835 --> 01:59:29,436

Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part 2.

:

01:59:29,436 --> 01:59:30,996

Theme of control.

:

01:59:31,156 --> 01:59:35,516

Learns that not only can he not control

others, but that the closest people to

:

01:59:35,516 --> 01:59:41,466

him, his wife, Kay, and brother, Fredo,

are the ones that do him the most damage.

:

01:59:41,976 --> 01:59:43,835

Captain James Kirk in Wrath of Khan.

:

01:59:44,166 --> 01:59:48,356

How we deal with death is a As

important as how we deal with life.

:

01:59:48,675 --> 01:59:51,466

Kirk is a cheater of

death and always has been.

:

01:59:52,166 --> 01:59:56,175

He only has to deal with what

real loss is by the second.

:

01:59:57,606 --> 01:59:58,936

Rocky Balboa in Rocky II.

:

01:59:58,956 --> 02:00:01,656

He earned his respect in the

first movie, now it's about making

:

02:00:01,656 --> 02:00:03,946

a career of the shot he had.

:

02:00:04,196 --> 02:00:05,376

Commercials didn't work.

:

02:00:05,556 --> 02:00:07,186

Hard labor jobs didn't work.

:

02:00:07,186 --> 02:00:08,306

He kept getting fired.

:

02:00:08,496 --> 02:00:12,316

Now he has a wife and a baby on the

way that he has to provide for his

:

02:00:12,316 --> 02:00:18,276

spiritual goal is self sacrifice

for others, not for himself, which

:

02:00:18,276 --> 02:00:19,876

was what the first movie's goal was.

:

02:00:20,496 --> 02:00:21,156

T2.

:

02:00:21,406 --> 02:00:23,206

We discussed John's arc already, right?

:

02:00:23,496 --> 02:00:29,176

The duty accepting duty versus

ignoring duty speed to we discussed.

:

02:00:30,261 --> 02:00:33,201

All of how there is no arc, right?

:

02:00:33,221 --> 02:00:35,571

It's a complete lack of a spiritual goal.

:

02:00:36,921 --> 02:00:37,481

So that's it.

:

02:00:37,481 --> 02:00:38,171

Those are the five.

:

02:00:38,621 --> 02:00:42,761

The next time you freely admit to

loving a sequel, whether it's back

:

02:00:42,761 --> 02:00:49,111

to the future too, or gremlins too,

or even cannonball run too, run it

:

02:00:49,111 --> 02:00:53,871

through Jerome's sequel gauntlet and

see if it comes out the other side.

:

02:00:53,941 --> 02:00:55,221

See if it passed the test.

:

02:00:55,926 --> 02:00:58,966

And you'll be able to see why you

like it so much, or why you don't,

:

02:00:58,976 --> 02:01:00,536

why you think some movies suck.

:

02:01:01,936 --> 02:01:06,136

I challenge you, take any Poltergeist or

Jaws sequel, and run it through Jerome's

:

02:01:06,136 --> 02:01:08,166

sequel gauntlet, and they will fail.

:

02:01:08,656 --> 02:01:09,696

Almost all of them.

:

02:01:10,246 --> 02:01:12,956

Also, have you ever noticed, this is a

side point, have you ever noticed that,

:

02:01:13,036 --> 02:01:19,086

like, the first two movies of a saga

are usually the best, and the third one

:

02:01:19,336 --> 02:01:20,956

sometimes leaves a lot to be desired?

:

02:01:21,146 --> 02:01:21,516

Mm hmm.

:

02:01:22,151 --> 02:01:25,961

Like, there's a lot of people that think

that Godfather 3 sucks, and that Return of

:

02:01:25,971 --> 02:01:28,021

the Jedi is not on par with the first two.

:

02:01:28,491 --> 02:01:31,491

Superman 3 is far worse than

the first two Supermans.

:

02:01:31,511 --> 02:01:32,011

You know what I mean?

:

02:01:33,081 --> 02:01:34,081

I just thought that was odd.

:

02:01:34,181 --> 02:01:34,541

Anyway.

:

02:01:35,041 --> 02:01:36,501

Indiana Jones is another example.

:

02:01:36,761 --> 02:01:38,561

Indiana Jones and the Temple of

Doom, and of course Raiders of

:

02:01:38,561 --> 02:01:41,581

the Lost Ark, those are the two

best movies in that whole saga.

:

02:01:41,781 --> 02:01:42,011

Chris: Yeah.

:

02:01:43,941 --> 02:01:44,241

Jerome: Okay,

:

02:01:44,521 --> 02:01:44,951

Chris: what do you

:

02:01:44,951 --> 02:01:45,201

Jerome: got?

:

02:01:45,211 --> 02:01:46,951

Chris: Same with Alien and Aliens.

:

02:01:47,051 --> 02:01:48,381

Jerome: Alien and Aliens, right?

:

02:01:48,401 --> 02:01:51,361

They kept making movies after that,

and they're nowhere near as good.

:

02:01:51,371 --> 02:01:51,701

Right.

:

02:01:52,451 --> 02:01:55,991

You know, Star Wars and Empire Strikes

Back, a lot of people, not just Return

:

02:01:55,991 --> 02:02:00,311

of the Jedi, a lot of people think

every movie after Empire has failed

:

02:02:00,321 --> 02:02:02,001

to live up to those first two movies.

:

02:02:02,031 --> 02:02:02,311

Yeah.

:

02:02:02,421 --> 02:02:04,091

Chris: I mean, I liked

Return of the Jedi, but

:

02:02:04,411 --> 02:02:07,361

Jerome: I did too, and it's a perfect

See, here's my argument with Return of the

:

02:02:07,361 --> 02:02:09,301

Jedi and Godfather 3, they're both needed.

:

02:02:09,781 --> 02:02:10,091

Right?

:

02:02:10,131 --> 02:02:11,511

You might not like them as much.

:

02:02:12,191 --> 02:02:13,231

They're essential.

:

02:02:13,231 --> 02:02:13,841

Exactly.

:

02:02:13,841 --> 02:02:15,331

The character needs closure.

:

02:02:15,521 --> 02:02:16,681

And that's essential.

:

02:02:17,151 --> 02:02:19,901

Alright, so anything you got to add?

:

02:02:20,021 --> 02:02:22,381

What do you think of

Jerome's sequel gauntlet?

:

02:02:22,491 --> 02:02:23,101

Chris: I like it.

:

02:02:23,241 --> 02:02:23,651

I like it.

:

02:02:23,651 --> 02:02:25,511

I wish it didn't take

two hours to get to it.

:

02:02:28,591 --> 02:02:31,361

Jerome: Well, I could have

led with it, but then our show

:

02:02:31,361 --> 02:02:32,431

would be ten minutes long.

:

02:02:32,431 --> 02:02:34,413

Chris: No, it was fun though.

:

02:02:34,413 --> 02:02:35,601

Because, you know.

:

02:02:36,991 --> 02:02:37,981

Well, that's what we're here for, right?

:

02:02:37,991 --> 02:02:38,891

Yeah, it was fun doing it.

:

02:02:38,891 --> 02:02:39,601

It was fun.

:

02:02:39,611 --> 02:02:43,371

And uh, you know, if you're an

aspiring screenwriter, and maybe,

:

02:02:43,441 --> 02:02:46,121

you know, you might have an

opportunity to work on a sequel.

:

02:02:47,291 --> 02:02:48,671

You gotta consider these things.

:

02:02:49,101 --> 02:02:50,501

Use Jerome's sequel gauntlet.

:

02:02:50,501 --> 02:02:51,731

There you go.

:

02:02:51,731 --> 02:02:52,031

There you go.

:

02:02:54,671 --> 02:02:55,841

Alright, 6 Degrees, what do you

:

02:02:55,841 --> 02:02:56,391

Jerome: got for me?

:

02:02:56,511 --> 02:03:01,511

Chris: Alright I was going to choose

the the little girl in Speed 2.

:

02:03:03,596 --> 02:03:04,436

Oh, the deaf girl?

:

02:03:04,466 --> 02:03:05,166

The deaf girl.

:

02:03:05,526 --> 02:03:07,606

But she, this was the

only movie she was in.

:

02:03:08,356 --> 02:03:08,566

Oh.

:

02:03:08,806 --> 02:03:10,786

She was in this and X Files.

:

02:03:11,376 --> 02:03:13,026

And shows, TV shows.

:

02:03:13,036 --> 02:03:13,976

That makes it difficult.

:

02:03:14,196 --> 02:03:15,696

Yeah, so I went with someone else.

:

02:03:15,696 --> 02:03:17,796

So I chose, the two actors I chose.

:

02:03:17,796 --> 02:03:19,176

Cheryl Wait,

:

02:03:19,236 --> 02:03:19,706

Jerome: wait, wait.

:

02:03:19,736 --> 02:03:24,491

Before anyone asks, the reason why

that makes it difficult We don't use

:

02:03:24,491 --> 02:03:26,971

the movies that we talk about today.

:

02:03:27,061 --> 02:03:27,411

Yeah.

:

02:03:27,601 --> 02:03:30,991

So they have to at least be in

something else for us to do this.

:

02:03:30,991 --> 02:03:32,761

We, we challenge ourselves that way.

:

02:03:32,811 --> 02:03:33,331

Alright, go ahead.

:

02:03:33,411 --> 02:03:36,251

Chris: And I, and we have done that

before where you had to use the movie.

:

02:03:36,481 --> 02:03:36,791

I had to.

:

02:03:36,791 --> 02:03:38,341

But I just wanted to go

with two different ones.

:

02:03:38,671 --> 02:03:42,731

So I went with, and both these,

actors they do a lot of like action.

:

02:03:43,571 --> 02:03:44,551

I shouldn't say a lot.

:

02:03:44,921 --> 02:03:45,941

Some of them didn't do many.

:

02:03:46,241 --> 02:03:50,711

A couple of these actors, I think the

first one, she's only done, maybe a dozen.

:

02:03:50,711 --> 02:03:51,201

Four.

:

02:03:51,491 --> 02:03:52,301

Oh, was it four?

:

02:03:52,631 --> 02:03:56,601

Jerome: Four film titles

and like 66 stunt titles.

:

02:03:56,611 --> 02:03:58,251

Like, she's a stunt, she's a stunt person.

:

02:03:58,381 --> 02:03:58,811

Chris: Right.

:

02:03:59,181 --> 02:04:01,831

But anyway, so Cheryl Bermeo?

:

02:04:01,846 --> 02:04:02,466

Bermio?

:

02:04:02,466 --> 02:04:03,366

Bermio.

:

02:04:03,366 --> 02:04:03,606

Okay.

:

02:04:03,816 --> 02:04:04,276

She was one of

:

02:04:04,276 --> 02:04:06,076

Jerome: the pe What was her

character name in Speed 2?

:

02:04:06,316 --> 02:04:07,486

Chris: Passenger 2.

:

02:04:07,486 --> 02:04:09,156

Or something like that.

:

02:04:09,156 --> 02:04:09,426

Yeah.

:

02:04:09,636 --> 02:04:10,546

Passenger 2.

:

02:04:10,986 --> 02:04:12,706

And Terrence Evans.

:

02:04:13,536 --> 02:04:14,696

Jerome: Yeah, he was in T2.

:

02:04:14,981 --> 02:04:17,711

Chris: Yes, and he was the

semi truck driver, one of them.

:

02:04:17,761 --> 02:04:17,891

He was

:

02:04:17,891 --> 02:04:19,841

Jerome: the semi truck driver, okay.

:

02:04:20,291 --> 02:04:22,441

Chris: I think he was the tanker

driver, if I remember correctly.

:

02:04:22,491 --> 02:04:22,941

I could be wrong.

:

02:04:22,961 --> 02:04:23,251

Which,

:

02:04:23,321 --> 02:04:23,851

Jerome: which one?

:

02:04:24,541 --> 02:04:28,381

Well, it seems like every truck

driver gets thrown from the truck.

:

02:04:28,851 --> 02:04:29,941

Yeah, so it didn't matter.

:

02:04:30,091 --> 02:04:31,221

So he's one of those guys.

:

02:04:31,281 --> 02:04:31,611

Okay.

:

02:04:32,121 --> 02:04:36,131

So, When you first texted me, I

was like, my god, we're now doing

:

02:04:36,131 --> 02:04:39,781

stunt people, like, this is where

we've gotten in our challenges.

:

02:04:40,001 --> 02:04:40,341

Well, it's,

:

02:04:40,781 --> 02:04:45,821

Chris: so the point is to try to

see if we can't connect to actors

:

02:04:45,821 --> 02:04:46,941

that were on the big screen.

:

02:04:47,416 --> 02:04:47,686

Right.

:

02:04:47,696 --> 02:04:48,866

Within six degrees.

:

02:04:49,036 --> 02:04:51,616

Jerome: So, for anyone else that

knows, like, of course, this isn't

:

02:04:51,616 --> 02:04:53,966

Stumped Jerome, we actually just

want to know if it can be done.

:

02:04:54,346 --> 02:04:57,026

The closest we got to being

stumped is when we did those

:

02:04:57,046 --> 02:04:58,636

two foreign language films.

:

02:04:58,646 --> 02:04:59,086

Yeah.

:

02:04:59,136 --> 02:05:03,266

Because we found that European

actors and actresses it, it was

:

02:05:03,276 --> 02:05:05,546

harder to find connective pieces.

:

02:05:06,096 --> 02:05:06,856

So, okay.

:

02:05:07,386 --> 02:05:12,376

Cheryl Bermeo was in a:

movie called The Convent.

:

02:05:13,596 --> 02:05:15,466

With Adrienne Barbeau.

:

02:05:15,566 --> 02:05:16,236

Remember her?

:

02:05:16,666 --> 02:05:17,026

Chris: No.

:

02:05:17,876 --> 02:05:18,526

Jerome: Yeah, you do.

:

02:05:18,576 --> 02:05:20,136

She was in Back to School with Rodney.

:

02:05:20,136 --> 02:05:21,546

She was Rodney Dangerfield's wife.

:

02:05:21,596 --> 02:05:22,136

Oh, okay.

:

02:05:22,146 --> 02:05:22,776

Getting him back to school.

:

02:05:23,436 --> 02:05:24,526

She was in Swamp Thing.

:

02:05:24,526 --> 02:05:25,810

Remember that great

80s movie, Swamp Thing?

:

02:05:25,810 --> 02:05:26,206

Oh, yeah.

:

02:05:26,206 --> 02:05:27,066

I loved Swamp

:

02:05:27,066 --> 02:05:27,436

Chris: Thing.

:

02:05:27,456 --> 02:05:28,696

Yeah, I loved Adrienne Barbeau.

:

02:05:28,696 --> 02:05:30,006

It's on cable all the time in the 80s.

:

02:05:30,016 --> 02:05:30,376

Yeah, I know.

:

02:05:30,376 --> 02:05:31,496

Jerome: I had such a crush on her.

:

02:05:31,796 --> 02:05:37,586

Anyway, she was in The Convent,

and she was also in Argo in:

:

02:05:38,086 --> 02:05:39,566

The Ben Affleck movie.

:

02:05:40,226 --> 02:05:43,736

Also in that movie was John

Goodman, who was in The Runner

:

02:05:44,166 --> 02:05:46,356

:

:

02:05:46,776 --> 02:05:47,176

Oh my God.

:

02:05:47,236 --> 02:05:48,396

So three?

:

02:05:48,496 --> 02:05:49,306

Wow.

:

02:05:49,356 --> 02:05:49,976

That's pretty good.

:

02:05:49,976 --> 02:05:56,426

The Convent, Argo, and The Runner

connects Cheryl Bermeo to Terrence Evans.

:

02:05:56,466 --> 02:05:57,256

Who'd have thunk.

:

02:05:58,576 --> 02:05:59,826

That took some work, by the way.

:

02:06:00,086 --> 02:06:01,706

I had it in four and I'm like.

:

02:06:02,146 --> 02:06:03,176

There's more here.

:

02:06:03,196 --> 02:06:05,046

I know there is, you know, at one point

:

02:06:05,056 --> 02:06:06,386

Chris: I was using Coolio.

:

02:06:07,016 --> 02:06:07,586

Oh really?

:

02:06:07,906 --> 02:06:08,156

Yeah.

:

02:06:08,246 --> 02:06:08,926

What's Coolio?

:

02:06:10,016 --> 02:06:10,686

I was like, oh really?

:

02:06:10,696 --> 02:06:12,456

And then I thought, wait, I don't

even know what the hell that is.

:

02:06:14,376 --> 02:06:15,086

What's Coolio?

:

02:06:15,297 --> 02:06:19,826

Our audience is fucking

screaming right now.

:

02:06:20,516 --> 02:06:21,336

Coolio is a rapper?

:

02:06:22,406 --> 02:06:23,686

Chris: Oh, okay.

:

02:06:24,596 --> 02:06:27,736

Yeah, I am not hip to the rap scene.

:

02:06:27,746 --> 02:06:27,806

You're like,

:

02:06:27,806 --> 02:06:29,746

what streaming service is Coolio?

:

02:06:29,846 --> 02:06:30,016

That's

:

02:06:30,016 --> 02:06:32,586

Chris: what I, seriously, I thought

it was like a new app or something.

:

02:06:32,636 --> 02:06:32,966

Oh.

:

02:06:33,501 --> 02:06:34,001

Wait, what?

:

02:06:38,701 --> 02:06:40,761

It's a good thing no one ever

listens to the end of these shows.

:

02:06:40,761 --> 02:06:41,091

That's great.

:

02:06:41,121 --> 02:06:43,711

Jerome: It's a good thing Coolio

doesn't listen to our show.

:

02:06:44,101 --> 02:06:47,781

Anyway, Coolio was in one of those

movies, I think, and I was trying

:

02:06:47,781 --> 02:06:50,181

to use other movies that he was in.

:

02:06:51,761 --> 02:06:53,671

Chris: So, I have heard of Coolio.

:

02:06:53,672 --> 02:06:56,721

In my defense, doesn't

it sound like an app?

:

02:06:59,381 --> 02:06:59,811

You know what?

:

02:07:00,281 --> 02:07:03,061

Coolio should create the Coolio app.

:

02:07:03,071 --> 02:07:03,791

Yeah, right.

:

02:07:03,981 --> 02:07:04,621

And I don't care what

:

02:07:04,621 --> 02:07:05,581

Jerome: he wants to use it for.

:

02:07:05,581 --> 02:07:06,321

It doesn't matter.

:

02:07:06,321 --> 02:07:08,161

If it's got his name, that's all you need.

:

02:07:08,431 --> 02:07:09,551

Oh, that's good stuff.

:

02:07:09,941 --> 02:07:12,221

Alright, so good, good episode.

:

02:07:12,441 --> 02:07:13,431

Absolutely.

:

02:07:13,481 --> 02:07:17,201

So, if you're, again, if you're wondering

what makes a good sequel, what makes

:

02:07:17,201 --> 02:07:21,661

a bad one, hopefully, hopefully,

We've opened your eyes a little

:

02:07:21,661 --> 02:07:23,581

bit on what works and what doesn't.

:

02:07:23,811 --> 02:07:27,591

And I think we've proved that even

with T2, as much as we love that

:

02:07:27,591 --> 02:07:29,611

movie, no movies without flaws.

:

02:07:29,801 --> 02:07:32,131

There's always going to be plot

holes, especially with action films.

:

02:07:32,631 --> 02:07:36,821

You know, you have to connect a to

Z and there's a lot of letters in

:

02:07:36,821 --> 02:07:38,721

between that sometimes fall apart.

:

02:07:38,731 --> 02:07:40,431

So it is what it is.

:

02:07:40,432 --> 02:07:44,831

But as you can see, Speed 2

had way more issues than T2.

:

02:07:45,461 --> 02:07:50,781

T2 is, is most people consider

T2 top five sequel of all time.

:

02:07:50,971 --> 02:07:51,161

Well,

:

02:07:51,161 --> 02:07:54,371

Chris: and for the record, I, I

was, I wanted to do something like

:

02:07:54,381 --> 02:07:58,771

Aliens for the good, you know, for

the better example of a, of a sequel.

:

02:07:59,351 --> 02:07:59,781

Jerome: Yeah.

:

02:08:01,496 --> 02:08:03,216

Chris: But still, I love T2 also.

:

02:08:03,226 --> 02:08:03,746

I think the

:

02:08:03,746 --> 02:08:07,536

Jerome: reason I poo pooed it is

because by the time you text me

:

02:08:07,536 --> 02:08:10,666

that, I already had T2's notes done.

:

02:08:10,667 --> 02:08:14,416

I'm like, I'm not going

back and doing another one.

:

02:08:14,416 --> 02:08:17,656

So T2 was the one I watched

first because I have it on DVD.

:

02:08:17,756 --> 02:08:21,226

So real quick, you said you

watched the director's cut.

:

02:08:21,276 --> 02:08:24,516

Did it have more issues

than the theatrical version?

:

02:08:24,516 --> 02:08:26,716

Chris: Yeah, there was

more unnecessary dialogue.

:

02:08:26,716 --> 02:08:27,456

That's why it was cut.

:

02:08:28,066 --> 02:08:28,526

Oh.

:

02:08:28,666 --> 02:08:29,026

Yeah.

:

02:08:29,296 --> 02:08:34,606

So, and I, I didn't even care to take

the time to discuss that since, you know.

:

02:08:34,646 --> 02:08:38,086

Jerome: I know that it doesn't uh,

and again, I have the DVD, but I've

:

02:08:38,086 --> 02:08:40,036

never watched the extended version.

:

02:08:40,036 --> 02:08:41,516

I've only seen the theatrical version.

:

02:08:42,096 --> 02:08:44,496

The extended version, doesn't it

have a dream sequence where she sees

:

02:08:44,496 --> 02:08:46,116

Reese again or she talks to Reese?

:

02:08:46,376 --> 02:08:46,936

Chris: Yeah, yeah.

:

02:08:47,606 --> 02:08:47,956

Okay.

:

02:08:47,966 --> 02:08:52,976

That was in the, in the director's cut

or whatever it was, the, the cut good?

:

02:08:53,056 --> 02:08:53,536

I don't know if I've

:

02:08:53,536 --> 02:08:54,036

Jerome: ever seen it.

:

02:08:54,086 --> 02:08:54,676

It's no good?

:

02:08:55,311 --> 02:08:58,161

Chris: It was alright, but it wasn't

necessary for the, for the movie.

:

02:08:58,441 --> 02:08:58,781

Yeah.

:

02:08:58,901 --> 02:09:01,831

You know, she, she was dreaming

when she was in the hospital.

:

02:09:03,081 --> 02:09:04,201

That wasn't in the original?

:

02:09:04,911 --> 02:09:06,161

Jerome: No, not in the theatrical version.

:

02:09:06,231 --> 02:09:07,571

Chris: Okay, I couldn't remember.

:

02:09:07,621 --> 02:09:09,951

Cause I saw that scene and I

was like, I couldn't remember if

:

02:09:09,951 --> 02:09:11,171

it was in the original or not.

:

02:09:12,061 --> 02:09:13,371

It's been so long since I saw it.

:

02:09:13,372 --> 02:09:17,351

Jerome: I, I do remember too I, I think

it was on the director's commentary.

:

02:09:17,891 --> 02:09:20,431

The scene where he has to

pull the metal rod out.

:

02:09:20,621 --> 02:09:20,821

Huh.

:

02:09:21,321 --> 02:09:22,671

That wasn't originally shot.

:

02:09:22,801 --> 02:09:23,971

That wasn't originally in the movie.

:

02:09:24,521 --> 02:09:29,261

Cameron had it to where the, the

T:

:

02:09:29,261 --> 02:09:31,411

him and he supposedly dies, right?

:

02:09:32,091 --> 02:09:37,851

And then, when he emerges To blow up the

T:

:

02:09:37,851 --> 02:09:39,171

like, Where the fuck did he come from?

:

02:09:39,591 --> 02:09:40,781

Like, we thought he was dead!

:

02:09:40,981 --> 02:09:41,451

Chris: Right.

:

02:09:41,611 --> 02:09:43,891

Jerome: And Cameron had it like

that originally because he thought

:

02:09:43,891 --> 02:09:46,901

it'd be more of a surprise, but

it was too much of a surprise.

:

02:09:47,281 --> 02:09:51,471

There was no organic way to get

him from one spot to the other.

:

02:09:51,781 --> 02:09:56,581

So he calls Arnold, and tells him,

you gotta come back, we gotta reshoot.

:

02:09:56,801 --> 02:09:59,651

By the way, that makeup

took seven hours to put on.

:

02:09:59,681 --> 02:10:00,521

Oh my gosh.

:

02:10:01,016 --> 02:10:03,506

At that point of the movie

where his face is all fucked up?

:

02:10:03,556 --> 02:10:04,006

Yeah.

:

02:10:04,706 --> 02:10:08,336

So he tells him, you gotta come

back, you gotta do seven hours of

:

02:10:08,386 --> 02:10:10,986

makeup, so we can shoot you rebooting.

:

02:10:12,296 --> 02:10:16,296

Finding an alternate power source,

rebooting, removing the metal rod.

:

02:10:16,606 --> 02:10:18,046

And sort of grabbing the gun.

:

02:10:18,766 --> 02:10:21,756

Arnold was on his way to Bruce

Willis house for Christmas.

:

02:10:22,256 --> 02:10:23,036

Oh my gosh.

:

02:10:23,476 --> 02:10:26,766

He had to cancel that to do this reshoot.

:

02:10:27,436 --> 02:10:31,666

The shot of him pulling the pole

out was shot on Christmas Day.

:

02:10:31,866 --> 02:10:33,406

Chris: Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

:

02:10:33,407 --> 02:10:35,266

Jerome: Yeah.

:

02:10:35,266 --> 02:10:35,676

Chris: Wow.

:

02:10:36,446 --> 02:10:36,836

Jerome: Yeah.

:

02:10:38,226 --> 02:10:39,286

Chris: Well, it's good stuff, man.

:

02:10:39,386 --> 02:10:39,956

So yeah.

:

02:10:40,436 --> 02:10:40,966

Take it away.

:

02:10:41,146 --> 02:10:43,106

Yeah, go support your local cinemas.

:

02:10:44,036 --> 02:10:45,076

Jerome: Keep drinking and keep watching.

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About the Podcast

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Silver Screen Happy Hour
With the Wiegand Brothers

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About your hosts

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Jerome Wiegand

Born and raised in Metro Detroit, Michigan. Graduate of Columbia College Chicago with a degree in Film/Screenwriting. Have lived in California since 2001. I enjoy screenwriting, script consulting and film analysis.
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Chris Wiegand